Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I am not really very structured and gets distracted easily, in this
experiment the final hardware setup is not decided, currently my software
structure thinking is like this.

OSC for the protocol as most available Ambisonics sw is VST's for PC or Mac
and Reaper accepts OSC for controls. If done right OSC does not have a
latency problem. Just remember the speed of data output from the sensor
needs to be set high :-)

Reaper is because I am currently thinking of the binaural conversion
experiments with Ambisonics, there do exist 4 channel vst player software's
more like normal apps when the playback chain is configured for end users.

Or would it be better to use oculus rift syntax for the position messages
to be compatible with VR apps?
Or maybe make it changeable by just loading different software?
With my current WiFi plan maybe the wifi chip should accept oculus syntax
and convert and send OSC to be flexible?

Actually the pico-platinche with the bno055 is nice because it is smaller
than the diy head tracker  and have more free CPU and memory for the
protocol implementation as the sensor with its built in cpu does drift
elimination and calibration.
As far as I know the bno055 is the only sensor with built in calibration
and drift compensation available to hobbyists.

If the communication is serial over USB, tcp-ip over USB or using WiFi or
Bluetooth does not matter so much at this stage.

Bluetooth might be best for platform flexibility, works with phones, PC and
Mac and workable with Linux. But the same is valid for WiFi., and currently
the Chinese Bluetooth module is larger than the WiFi but needs less power.

And I think I have burnt my BT module with 5v and is waiting for a new
one...

Best Regards
Bo-Erik
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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[umashankar manthravadi]

Dear marc

There seem to be dozens of nine axis (three each of gyro, magnetic and 
accelerometer with two data and two power pins connecting to usb Arduino – here 
are some  links
https://www.adafruit.com/products/1714
https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270962872404&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160&rmvSB=true
http://planetkris.com/2014/12/easier-better-arduino-imu-head-tracker/

most of the action is happening in gamer groups and drone control – all the way 
to ready to use ide and guis.

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 10:20 AM
To: umashankar manthravadi
Cc: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 07:53:46 +0530,
umashankar manthravadi  wrote :

> VVaudio working in audio mulch will accept midi to control parameters
> like azimuth and elevation. There are plenty of two board (but tiny
> boards) that will  provide usb output from a 9degrees of freedom
> chip. We just need to convert X and Y to midistreams.

I'd be curious to see a list of appropriate sensors and boards. Fons is
already working on a similar project; we'll learn more when it's ready.

> Would like to see it integrated audio on USB but we need not start
> there.

It would keep the device small, cheaper, and compatible with many
systems that already have a headphone output. But there's probably
small and cheap usb headphone amplifier modules that could be
integrated.

> I am sure it can be used with ambisonics.xyz too, but is that site
> dead ?

It's http://ambisonic.xyz/ (without a s).
It still works (but only for Chrome based browsers)

--
Marc

> umashankar
>
> Sent from Mail for
> Windows 10
>
> From: Marc Lavallée
> Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 7:37 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.
>
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
> Stefan Schreiber  wrote :
>
> > Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do,
> > to connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.
>
> The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
> known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
> scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
> could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project
> does not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and
> prototypes are required.
>
> > Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have
> > decided on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open
> > hardware project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe
> > would have to implement just one < reference appliance >, which
> > could be a PC solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.
>
> The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
> We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
> regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. Simply,
> a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
> requires it, so the more open the better. The protocol is probably
> more important than the hardware, which could vary.
>
> > * FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D
>
> OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
> bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
> choice: https://github.com/firmata
> http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues
>
> --
> Marc
>
> ___
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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Marc Lavallée]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 07:53:46 +0530,
umashankar manthravadi  wrote :

> VVaudio working in audio mulch will accept midi to control parameters
> like azimuth and elevation. There are plenty of two board (but tiny
> boards) that will  provide usb output from a 9degrees of freedom
> chip. We just need to convert X and Y to midistreams. 

I'd be curious to see a list of appropriate sensors and boards. Fons is
already working on a similar project; we'll learn more when it's ready.

> Would like to see it integrated audio on USB but we need not start
> there.

It would keep the device small, cheaper, and compatible with many
systems that already have a headphone output. But there's probably
small and cheap usb headphone amplifier modules that could be
integrated.

> I am sure it can be used with ambisonics.xyz too, but is that site
> dead ?

It's http://ambisonic.xyz/ (without a s). 
It still works (but only for Chrome based browsers)

--
Marc
 
> umashankar
> 
> Sent from Mail for
> Windows 10
> 
> From: Marc Lavallée
> Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 7:37 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.
> 
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
> Stefan Schreiber  wrote :
> 
> > Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do,
> > to connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.
> 
> The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
> known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
> scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
> could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project
> does not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and
> prototypes are required.
> 
> > Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have
> > decided on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open
> > hardware project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe
> > would have to implement just one < reference appliance >, which
> > could be a PC solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.
> 
> The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
> We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
> regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. Simply,
> a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
> requires it, so the more open the better. The protocol is probably
> more important than the hardware, which could vary.
> 
> > * FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D
> 
> OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
> bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
> choice: https://github.com/firmata
> http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues
> 
> --
> Marc
> 
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Stefan Schreiber]

umashankar manthravadi wrote:


VVaudio working in audio mulch will accept midi to control parameters like 
azimuth and elevation. There are plenty of two board (but tiny boards) that 
will  provide usb output from a 9degrees of freedom chip. We just need to 
convert X and Y to midistreams. Would like to see it integrated audio on USB 
but we need not start there. I am sure it can be used with ambisonics.xyz too, 
but is that site dead ?

umashankar
 


OSC is MIDI's successor protocol...

Best,

Stefan


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 7:37 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
Stefan Schreiber  wrote :

 


Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do, to
connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.
   



The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project does
not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and prototypes are
required.

 


Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have decided
on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open hardware
project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe would have to
implement just one < reference appliance >, which could be a PC
solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.
   



The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. Simply,
a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
requires it, so the more open the better. The protocol is probably more
important than the hardware, which could vary.

 


* FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D
   



OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
choice: https://github.com/firmata
http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues

--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Stefan Schreiber]

Marc Lavallée wrote:


On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
Stefan Schreiber  wrote :

 

Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do, to 
connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.
   



The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project does
not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and prototypes are
required.
 



Pretty clear to me. Especially since I already have been involved in 
Bo-Erik's close predecessor project, just a few months ago...


So don't worry: I fully understand that this is all about some HT 
module, which will allow to implement head-tracked binaural decoders for 
various surround formats, and maybe even for (motion-compensated) stereo 
playback.


See also available "similar" products:

1. http://dysonics.com/

2. AmbiExplorer

3. http://www.3dsoundlabs.com/

---


 


Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have decided
on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open hardware
project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe would have to
implement just one < reference appliance >, which could be a PC
solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.
   



The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. 



But I also would expect that a company like Bosch will try to keep 
backward-compatibility in its own chip/sensor families. (s. ARM 
processors in general)



Simply,
a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
requires it, so the more open the better. 


Agreed.


The protocol is probably more
important than the hardware, which could vary.
 



Disagreed. Most OS software I know assumes some specific hardware 
environment. (For example, a PC. Which is not a fixed but sufficiently 
defined environment.)


If both software and hardware are not really defined (I take the freedom 
to combine your last two phrases!), you will end in chaos.


I am aware that different hardware designs can be adopted to fit to some 
specific software stack. (This is the 2nd statement, but not the 1st.)


I would opt for a defined (even if flexible) hardware environment, and 
to adapt this to as many software environments as possible. It is not 
that easy to write solutions for Windows, MacOS, Linux, iOS, Android, 
...you see what I mean.


Not < any > of the cited three "similar" products offers software for 
any major OS. Which just shows once more that software adaptation is not 
trivial.


Best regards,

Stefan

P.S.:

 


* FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D
   



OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
choice: https://github.com/firmata
http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues

--
Marc

 



Valuable point. But 100Hz * 24 bytes (or say 30 bytes) is still not that 
much...


If BT has some latency issues or say (for example) Android, the problem 
was not OSC.

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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[umashankar manthravadi]

VVaudio working in audio mulch will accept midi to control parameters like 
azimuth and elevation. There are plenty of two board (but tiny boards) that 
will  provide usb output from a 9degrees of freedom chip. We just need to 
convert X and Y to midistreams. Would like to see it integrated audio on USB 
but we need not start there. I am sure it can be used with ambisonics.xyz too, 
but is that site dead ?

umashankar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Marc Lavallée
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 7:37 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
Stefan Schreiber  wrote :

> Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do, to
> connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.

The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project does
not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and prototypes are
required.

> Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have decided
> on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open hardware
> project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe would have to
> implement just one < reference appliance >, which could be a PC
> solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.

The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. Simply,
a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
requires it, so the more open the better. The protocol is probably more
important than the hardware, which could vary.

> * FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D

OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
choice: https://github.com/firmata
http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues

--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Marc Lavallée]

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:17:42 +,
Stefan Schreiber  wrote :

> Again: You need a defined plan what your device is supposed to do, to 
> connect to which devices (PCs? iOS/Android devices? ...), etc.

The plan is to track the orientation of a moving body part that is
known to affect our ability to localize sound; according to recent
scientific studies, the head is a prime suspect. The connectivity
could be an option: serial, usb, wifi or bluetooth. Such a project does
not need all parameters to be defined in the rock, and prototypes are
required.

> Anyway: Isn't your project pretty finished when you will have decided
> on the new < reference hardware >? I see this as an open hardware
> project. Software/apps can be written later. You maybe would have to
> implement just one < reference appliance >, which could be a PC
> solution, or an Ambisonics playback app for Android.

The FreeIMU project was open (and is probably no longer maintained).
We can expect sensors, processors and transmitters to be updated
regularly, so I prefer to avoid defining a reference hardware. Simply,
a head tracking gizmo could be able to work with any software that
requires it, so the more open the better. The protocol is probably more
important than the hardware, which could vary.

> * FSSC = Fast and Simple Sound Control.  The name is the aim...  :-D

OSC is not ideal for slow links, because it requires a minimum of 24
bytes to send a single value... The Firmata protocol could be a better
choice: https://github.com/firmata
http://firmata.org/wiki/Design_Issues

--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Stefan Schreiber]

Marc Lavallée wrote:


The BNO055 is a wonder.
 

Fully agreed. This sensor looks and feels like a quality solution. 100Hz 
updates are sufficient for our needs.



Here's a complete integration with bluetooth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84MOS78-Hso
Too bad the schematics are not provided.

The sensor looks easy to use, but it needs calibration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz4EozK4cPY

If made small enough, 


< small >  is a key requirement. (i.e. < miniaturisation >)

Best,

Stefan


a complete device could be useful not only for
head tracking, but also to track the orientation of an ambisonic
microphone (or a panoramic/360 camera).

--
Marc

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:16:24 +0100,
Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :

 


I copied the wrong link, touch interface is not always good :-)

I was involved in getting Matthias to support the diy head tracker
with the gy-85 an a aurdino nano with USB connectivity, in the
current setup we need a initial calibration and a pd plugin to
convert to OSC to talk to Reaper daw.

Now I saw this module, neat and small no calibration needed.
https://www.tindie.com/products/FabLab/pico-platinchen/

https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bno055-absolute-orientation-sensor/overview

http://github.com/arduino-org/Arduino/tree/ide-org-1.6.1.x/libraries/NAxesMotion

Maybe it overkill and have one processor too much in the chain...
Currently the plan is convert to OSC high speed serial in the
pico-platinchen.

I will add a esp-01 esp8266 to connect the serial port and send the
OSC data with UDP WiFi to the PC running Reaper. The WiFi setup will
be done in esp-01 code.

Probably a esp8266 and the BNO055 directly connected could manage it
without the ATmega328P on the pico platinchen.
But currently the cost of for example
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adafruit-9-DOF-Absolute-Orientation-IMU-Fusion-Breakout-BNO055-PID-2472-/171821750983?hash=item28015fdac7:g:-wYAAOSwBLlVTrbI
is not cheaper than the pico...

A naked bno055 is 13 usd on ali express but needs a circuit board and
be built to combine with the esp-01.

So 2 small modules and a battery is the system, and be mounted on the
headband of a headset.

I am definitely open for all possible forms of cooperation.
Bo-Erik
On 31 Jan 2016 16:58, "Marc Lavallée"  wrote:

   


Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:16:26 +0100,
Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :

 


I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and
setup in some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not
need initial calibration.
This is the new sensor module:
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview
   


The page is about addressable LED modules. Is it an error?

I would use a GY-85 board and a micro-controller, as seen here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
This is a good starting point.

 


It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi
connectivity or maybe Bluetooth
http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266

   


http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html

Could there be some added latency when using wifi or bluetooth? A
direct usb connection should be faster, but avoiding a cable would
be desirable because many android devices cannot easily use their
usb port for communication. If using wifi, I would try multicast
udp.

Here's a page that explains how to use the bluetooth module:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-2-Way-Bluetooth-Connection-Between-Arduino-a/

 


Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours
of operations:

   


http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html

Nice!

 


I will send OSC (open sound control
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from
the sensor.
   


OSC is a good protocol, but an application specific protocol could
be designed to be more compact, reducing the latency.

 


This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor,
reducing the soldering need.
   


There would be 4 modules involved: a sensing assembly, a
micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply.
Going usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.

A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have
GPIOs, so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:

http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/

If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
provide 3.2 volts for other boards.

 


This should simplify the setup of playback using
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
And maybe later ambiexplorer can be

Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public.

[Stefan Schreiber]

mbly, a
micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply. Going
usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.

A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have GPIOs,
so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:

http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/

If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
provide 3.2 volts for other boards.

   


This should simplify the setup of playback using
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
And maybe later ambiexplorer can be modified to accept OSC data?
 


It could even be used with a browser (chrome) based player.

In the end, the first problem to avoid is latency, and it can invalidate
many potential solutions.

   


This will allow you to use any headphones and DAC and amplifier

Best regards

Bo-Erik
 


I already bought some of the parts to create a head-tracking device,
months ago. Let's do it and share the designs. Even if we have
personalized HRTFs with order 1024 decoders, we need head-tracking.
The other solution is to use the sensors in phones or oculus-like
devices, but they are all too big or a bit expensive for the task
of listening to binaural audio only (not combined with visuals).

   


_--

I want to see a good quality over the ear stereo headphone with all
necessary electronics built into the headband. It will have single usb
connector which will provide power and digital audio (24 bit) and
carry head tracking information back to the computer, which will have
the software to play standard first order B-format files decoded to
binaural, using simple HRTF filters. The computer can be your
desktop, a tablet computer or a mobile.

umashankar
 


For a DIY project, integrating head-tracking and audio would be a lot,
and the resulting device could be rather large. But I may be wrong.

--
Marc


   


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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Marc Lavallée]

The BNO055 is a wonder.
Here's a complete integration with bluetooth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84MOS78-Hso
Too bad the schematics are not provided.

The sensor looks easy to use, but it needs calibration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz4EozK4cPY

If made small enough, a complete device could be useful not only for
head tracking, but also to track the orientation of an ambisonic
microphone (or a panoramic/360 camera).

--
Marc

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:16:24 +0100,
Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :

> I copied the wrong link, touch interface is not always good :-)
> 
> I was involved in getting Matthias to support the diy head tracker
> with the gy-85 an a aurdino nano with USB connectivity, in the
> current setup we need a initial calibration and a pd plugin to
> convert to OSC to talk to Reaper daw.
> 
> Now I saw this module, neat and small no calibration needed.
> https://www.tindie.com/products/FabLab/pico-platinchen/
> 
> https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bno055-absolute-orientation-sensor/overview
> 
> http://github.com/arduino-org/Arduino/tree/ide-org-1.6.1.x/libraries/NAxesMotion
> 
> Maybe it overkill and have one processor too much in the chain...
> Currently the plan is convert to OSC high speed serial in the
> pico-platinchen.
> 
> I will add a esp-01 esp8266 to connect the serial port and send the
> OSC data with UDP WiFi to the PC running Reaper. The WiFi setup will
> be done in esp-01 code.
> 
> Probably a esp8266 and the BNO055 directly connected could manage it
> without the ATmega328P on the pico platinchen.
> But currently the cost of for example
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adafruit-9-DOF-Absolute-Orientation-IMU-Fusion-Breakout-BNO055-PID-2472-/171821750983?hash=item28015fdac7:g:-wYAAOSwBLlVTrbI
> is not cheaper than the pico...
> 
> A naked bno055 is 13 usd on ali express but needs a circuit board and
> be built to combine with the esp-01.
> 
> So 2 small modules and a battery is the system, and be mounted on the
> headband of a headset.
> 
> I am definitely open for all possible forms of cooperation.
> Bo-Erik
> On 31 Jan 2016 16:58, "Marc Lavallée"  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)
> >
> > On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:16:26 +0100,
> > Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :
> >
> > > I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and
> > > setup in some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not
> > > need initial calibration.
> > > This is the new sensor module:
> > > https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview
> >
> > The page is about addressable LED modules. Is it an error?
> >
> > I would use a GY-85 board and a micro-controller, as seen here:
> > http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
> > This is a good starting point.
> >
> > > It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi
> > > connectivity or maybe Bluetooth
> > > http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266
> > >
> > http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html
> >
> > Could there be some added latency when using wifi or bluetooth? A
> > direct usb connection should be faster, but avoiding a cable would
> > be desirable because many android devices cannot easily use their
> > usb port for communication. If using wifi, I would try multicast
> > udp.
> >
> > Here's a page that explains how to use the bluetooth module:
> >
> > http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-2-Way-Bluetooth-Connection-Between-Arduino-a/
> >
> > > Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours
> > > of operations:
> > >
> > http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html
> >
> > Nice!
> >
> > > I will send OSC (open sound control
> > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from
> > > the sensor.
> >
> > OSC is a good protocol, but an application specific protocol could
> > be designed to be more compact, reducing the latency.
> >
> > > This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor,
> > > reducing the soldering need.
> >
> > There would be 4 modules involved: a sensing assembly, a
> > micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply.
> > Going usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.
> >
> > A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have
> > GPIOs, so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:
> >
> > http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/
> >
> > If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
> > the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
> > It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
> > provide 3.2 volts for other boards.
> >
> > > This should simplify the setup of playback using
> > > http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015

Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

rts to create a head-tracking device,
> months ago. Let's do it and share the designs. Even if we have
> personalized HRTFs with order 1024 decoders, we need head-tracking.
> The other solution is to use the sensors in phones or oculus-like
> devices, but they are all too big or a bit expensive for the task
> of listening to binaural audio only (not combined with visuals).
>
> > _--
> >
> > I want to see a good quality over the ear stereo headphone with all
> > necessary electronics built into the headband. It will have single usb
> > connector which will provide power and digital audio (24 bit) and
> > carry head tracking information back to the computer, which will have
> > the software to play standard first order B-format files decoded to
> > binaural, using simple HRTF filters. The computer can be your
> > desktop, a tablet computer or a mobile.
> >
> > umashankar
>
> For a DIY project, integrating head-tracking and audio would be a lot,
> and the resulting device could be rather large. But I may be wrong.
>
> --
> Marc
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Paul Hodges]

--On 31 January 2016 10:58 -0500 Marc Lavallée 
wrote:

> Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)

I just got some new electronic gadgetry. :-)  Not home-made, though,
commercial, designated with a block of random letters and numbers:
something like SPS200...

Paul


-- 
Paul Hodges

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[Sursound] Never do electronic in public. (was: Never do math in public...)

[Marc Lavallée]

Warning: the discussion is drifting to DIY electronic gadgetry. :)

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:16:26 +0100,
Bo-Erik Sandholm  wrote :

> I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and
> setup in some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not
> need initial calibration.
> This is the new sensor module:
> https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview

The page is about addressable LED modules. Is it an error?

I would use a GY-85 board and a micro-controller, as seen here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559
This is a good starting point.

> It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi
> connectivity or maybe Bluetooth
> http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html

Could there be some added latency when using wifi or bluetooth? A
direct usb connection should be faster, but avoiding a cable would be
desirable because many android devices cannot easily use their usb port
for communication. If using wifi, I would try multicast udp.

Here's a page that explains how to use the bluetooth module:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-2-Way-Bluetooth-Connection-Between-Arduino-a/

> Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours of
> operations:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html

Nice!

> I will send OSC (open sound control
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from the
> sensor.

OSC is a good protocol, but an application specific protocol could be
designed to be more compact, reducing the latency.

> This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor, reducing
> the soldering need.

There would be 4 modules involved: a sensing assembly, a
micro-controller, a wifi transmission module, and a power supply. Going
usb-wired would remove the wifi transmitter and the supply.

A custom firmware can be programmed for the ESP-8266, which have GPIOs,
so maybe it could be used as a micro-controller:
http://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/

If a micro-controller is required, the trinket is an alternative to
the arduino nano: https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-trinket/
It's much smaller, works at 3.2V. For a 5V USB wired version, it can
provide 3.2 volts for other boards.

> This should simplify the setup of playback using
> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
> And maybe later ambiexplorer can be modified to accept OSC data?

It could even be used with a browser (chrome) based player.

In the end, the first problem to avoid is latency, and it can invalidate
many potential solutions.

> This will allow you to use any headphones and DAC and amplifier
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Bo-Erik

I already bought some of the parts to create a head-tracking device,
months ago. Let's do it and share the designs. Even if we have
personalized HRTFs with order 1024 decoders, we need head-tracking.
The other solution is to use the sensors in phones or oculus-like
devices, but they are all too big or a bit expensive for the task
of listening to binaural audio only (not combined with visuals).

> _--
> 
> I want to see a good quality over the ear stereo headphone with all
> necessary electronics built into the headband. It will have single usb
> connector which will provide power and digital audio (24 bit) and
> carry head tracking information back to the computer, which will have
> the software to play standard first order B-format files decoded to
> binaural, using simple HRTF filters. The computer can be your
> desktop, a tablet computer or a mobile.
> 
> umashankar

For a DIY project, integrating head-tracking and audio would be a lot,
and the resulting device could be rather large. But I may be wrong.

--
Marc

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Re: [Sursound] Never do math in public, or my take on explaining B-format to binaural

[Bo-Erik Sandholm]

I have decided to simplify  the DIY head tracking dongle build and setup in
some aspects, now I have ordered this sensor that do not need initial
calibration.
This is the new sensor module:
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguide/overview

It will initially be combined with a esp8266 module for WiFi connectivity
or maybe Bluetooth
http://www.esp8266.com/wiki/doku.php?id=getting-started-with-the-esp8266
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Brand-NEW-HC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL/32367579918.html

Power will probably be from one of these, giving around 10 hours of
operations:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/4PCS-Hot-Sale-Soshine-900mAh-14500-battery-3-2V-LiFePO4-AA-Rechargeable-Battery/32242320597.html

I will send OSC (open sound control
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control) directly from the
sensor.

This should simplify the build of the head tracked sensor, reducing the
soldering need.

This should simplify the setup of playback using
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
And maybe later ambiexplorer can be modified to accept OSC data?

This will allow you to use any headphones and DAC and amplifier

Best regards

Bo-Erik

_--

I want to see a good quality over the ear stereo headphone with all
necessary electronics built into the headband. It will have single usb
connector which will provide power and digital audio (24 bit) and carry
head tracking information back to the computer, which will have the
software to play standard first order B-format files decoded to binaural,
using simple HRTF filters. The computer can be your desktop, a tablet
computer or a mobile.

umashankar
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