Re: [Sursound] Flac for FOA or amb files?
I will use foa in b-format, as far as i remember ambix is Only Chanel order different in for Higher order b-format .. Den 26 mar 2016 17:49 skrev "Stefan Schreiber" : > Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote: > > >> Rotate foa possibilites - I want headtracker support >> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015 - ambix can support >> headtracker, dont know if possible on vst host - might need reaper >> >> > I don't quite understand. Does it make sense to use the AmbiX convention > at 1st order? This means you have to bring your B format recordings into > AmbiX format, in real-time or "offline". > > Or do the ambiX plug-ins do the format adjustment in a transparent way? > > AmbiX is actually an HOA format, as we know. I see that AmbiX includes 1st > order, but no SF mike (+ usual FOA software) seems to support this. > > So if you use AmbiX software, the best way seems to be to enable some > transparent B format ---> AmbiX (format) conversion. (And not to transcode > all your FOA recordings...) > > Best, > > Stefan > > > http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?page_id=78 - VST plugins for rotation >> of FOA - headtracker ? >> >> > > You see? B format... ;-) > > Aternatives for FOA to binaural >> http://www.noisemakers.fr/ for foa to binaural - support SOFA >> Ambix >> >> > > B format... > > Have so far not tested the chain :-( - need to have it working on thursday >> morning :-) >> >> One alternative is to use >> Player (VLC) - ASIO Bridge - Reaper with Ambix and headtracker - >> Earphones >> >> >> Is there any issues with channel ordering? >> >> I also want to compare the different binaural conversion, >> and the feasability of stereo to binaural conversion with headtracking >> using foa. >> >> Bo-Erik >> >> >> >> > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/7192747a/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
Albert Leusink wrote: Jörn Nettingsmeier writes: are you talking about a head-tracked VR movie? Yes. i don't see why you would want to do that. the effect will be quite strange... why would any part of the sound mix stay constant wrt head position? the effect would be a bit like rotating the music bed in the cinema every time the camera pans - funny, but certainly irritating. It would be for off-camera audio (voice over, music etc.) that don't have any relation to the camera position/rotation. Imagine a video with an on-camera actor (dialog), a voice over and a music track. You would want the on-camera dialog to match the video position (so counter-rotate) , but the VO and music track will not rotate. if you absolutely have to do it, the only way is to deliver two streams, one head-tracked and counter-rotated, the other not. which means you'd have to have control over the listener's player software. That's what I was afraid of...so I would need 6 channels instead of 4. Is this such a problem, if you are already working with VR video - so two video streams rendered at 60 Hz if not at 90/120 Hz? Don't worry about < just > 6 audio channels. (= 5.1 channel count!) It could also be 11.1 + 2, or 22.2 +2 . Best, Stefan the only way to get two rotationally invariant signals into the stream is a cardioid pointing up and another one pointing down. if your player ignores head tilt, the result is like summing to mono and mixing into W. if it supports head tilt, the result is likely even worse :- Would that be the same as rotating the encoded stereo stream (set to 0º spread) by 90º vertically? Thank you! ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Flac for FOA or amb files?
Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote: Rotate foa possibilites - I want headtracker support http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015 - ambix can support headtracker, dont know if possible on vst host - might need reaper I don't quite understand. Does it make sense to use the AmbiX convention at 1st order? This means you have to bring your B format recordings into AmbiX format, in real-time or "offline". Or do the ambiX plug-ins do the format adjustment in a transparent way? AmbiX is actually an HOA format, as we know. I see that AmbiX includes 1st order, but no SF mike (+ usual FOA software) seems to support this. So if you use AmbiX software, the best way seems to be to enable some transparent B format ---> AmbiX (format) conversion. (And not to transcode all your FOA recordings...) Best, Stefan http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?page_id=78 - VST plugins for rotation of FOA - headtracker ? You see? B format... ;-) Aternatives for FOA to binaural http://www.noisemakers.fr/ for foa to binaural - support SOFA Ambix B format... Have so far not tested the chain :-( - need to have it working on thursday morning :-) One alternative is to use Player (VLC) - ASIO Bridge - Reaper with Ambix and headtracker - Earphones Is there any issues with channel ordering? I also want to compare the different binaural conversion, and the feasability of stereo to binaural conversion with headtracking using foa. Bo-Erik ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
Jörn Nettingsmeier writes: > > are you talking about a head-tracked VR movie? Yes. > > i don't see why you would want to do that. the effect will be quite > strange... why would any part of the sound mix stay constant wrt head > position? > the effect would be a bit like rotating the music bed in the cinema > every time the camera pans - funny, but certainly irritating. It would be for off-camera audio (voice over, music etc.) that don't have any relation to the camera position/rotation. Imagine a video with an on-camera actor (dialog), a voice over and a music track. You would want the on-camera dialog to match the video position (so counter-rotate) , but the VO and music track will not rotate. > > if you absolutely have to do it, the only way is to deliver two streams, > one head-tracked and counter-rotated, the other not. which means you'd > have to have control over the listener's player software. That's what I was afraid of...so I would need 6 channels instead of 4. > > the only way to get two rotationally invariant signals into the stream > is a cardioid pointing up and another one pointing down. if your player > ignores head tilt, the result is like summing to mono and mixing into W. > if it supports head tilt, the result is likely even worse :- Would that be the same as rotating the encoded stereo stream (set to 0º spread) by 90º vertically? > Thank you! ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
Let's say I have a stereo music bed in a spherical video Oops, I didn't read carefully _that_ part. Anyway, all answers tell you that it is possible. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 03/26/2016 05:58 AM, Albert Leusink wrote: Hello, Is it possible to have a non-rotating stereo source in the ambisonic soundfield, while all the other sources rotate? Let's say I have a stereo music bed in a spherical video that needs to stay in position, while the other elements (dialog, sfx etc.) respond to rotation. are you talking about a head-tracked VR movie? i don't see why you would want to do that. the effect will be quite strange... why would any part of the sound mix stay constant wrt head position? the effect would be a bit like rotating the music bed in the cinema every time the camera pans - funny, but certainly irritating. if you absolutely have to do it, the only way is to deliver two streams, one head-tracked and counter-rotated, the other not. which means you'd have to have control over the listener's player software. Exactly. So you could rotate a (1st) SF stream, and either pan a (2nd) stereo object/stream into the SF (at current viewing direction, if I understood well), or you could do a direct stereo --> binaural transformation for the stereo stream. In any case there would be always two different (i.e. independent) streams, just as Jörn says. You can combine these in different ways. the only way to get two rotationally invariant signals into the stream is a cardioid pointing up and another one pointing down. if your player ignores head tilt, the result is like summing to mono and mixing into W. if it supports head tilt, the result is likely even worse :-D But this is an interesting case, nevertheless. :-) Best, Stefan ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
Thanks for all your insights, I'll try to be a bit more specific. The delivery format is a 4 channel WXYZ .wav file that will be rotated and decoded to binaural in realtime in the video player according to the viewer's head rotation. So, there is no panning involved, just static sources, that counter rotate according to the head rotation (so it appears their location is fixed in the spherical soundfield) What I want to have also in this soundfield is a stereo source that moves with the head rotation (just like regular stereo listening on headphones), that gets somehow mixed in with the 4 channel wxyz file. By M/S encoding the stereo audio (sending the mid to the W channel and the side to the Y channel), it sums to mono at 90 and 270º. The same happens with regular stereo to FOA encoding. If I send the side channel both to X and Y, it sums to mono at 45º and 225º.(a 45º shift). Is there a solution that does not sum to mono? Double M/S? Regards, Albert ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
What about mixing two ambisonic streams: one fixed ambisonic rendered stereo + one rotated soundfield? -- Marc On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 16:40:59 +0100 Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > On 03/26/2016 05:58 AM, Albert Leusink wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Is it possible to have a non-rotating stereo source in the ambisonic > > soundfield, while all the other sources rotate? > > > > Let's say I have a stereo music bed in a spherical video that needs > > to stay in position, while the other elements (dialog, sfx etc.) > > respond to rotation. > > are you talking about a head-tracked VR movie? > > i don't see why you would want to do that. the effect will be quite > strange... why would any part of the sound mix stay constant wrt head > position? > the effect would be a bit like rotating the music bed in the cinema > every time the camera pans - funny, but certainly irritating. > > if you absolutely have to do it, the only way is to deliver two > streams, one head-tracked and counter-rotated, the other not. which > means you'd have to have control over the listener's player software. > > the only way to get two rotationally invariant signals into the > stream is a cardioid pointing up and another one pointing down. if > your player ignores head tilt, the result is like summing to mono and > mixing into W. if it supports head tilt, the result is likely even > worse :-D > > > ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
On 03/26/2016 05:58 AM, Albert Leusink wrote: Hello, Is it possible to have a non-rotating stereo source in the ambisonic soundfield, while all the other sources rotate? Let's say I have a stereo music bed in a spherical video that needs to stay in position, while the other elements (dialog, sfx etc.) respond to rotation. are you talking about a head-tracked VR movie? i don't see why you would want to do that. the effect will be quite strange... why would any part of the sound mix stay constant wrt head position? the effect would be a bit like rotating the music bed in the cinema every time the camera pans - funny, but certainly irritating. if you absolutely have to do it, the only way is to deliver two streams, one head-tracked and counter-rotated, the other not. which means you'd have to have control over the listener's player software. the only way to get two rotationally invariant signals into the stream is a cardioid pointing up and another one pointing down. if your player ignores head tilt, the result is like summing to mono and mixing into W. if it supports head tilt, the result is likely even worse :-D -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
About the virtual speakers in FOA for stereo. And the ideal listening angle is real life os +- 23 degrees The best way to listen to stereo loudspeakers is not with totally linear speakers :-) There need to be some modfication to direct sound from the speakers if the sound to the ears is to be the when listening to a centered sound as when listening to a mono sound source in the centerr. This is called the stereo sytem error. http://www.faktiskt.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=291133 some knowlede might be borrowed from here ? http://www.ambiophonics.org/ Bo-Erik 2016-03-26 13:36 GMT+01:00 Eero Aro : > Hi > > When you use two channel stereo in the 360 soundfield, pay attention to two > things. > > If you pan the Left and the Right channel of the stereo into directly > opposite directions, > say + 90 and - 90 degrees (to left and right), you basicly lose the > directional cues. > What you hear is a very spacious sound image. You cannot detect the > directions of individual phantom sources. If this is what you need, do it. > It's about > the same which directions you use, as rotating the opposite panned stereo > doesn't > change the illusion practically at all. This technique has been used with > dummy head > recordings, and yes, it is spacey, but no good sense of directions. > > If you wish that a stereo image is located somewhere around you, it is > better to pan the > Left and the Right channel to some certain angle from each other. Try first > panning the stereo channels to + 30 and - 30 degrees in front, as in a > normal two > loudspeaker stereo. You will notice that it sounds a little bit like two > channel stereo, > but with worse localization, at least in first order Ambisonics. You can > then rotate this > "sector" to some other direction. At the back and at the sides the > localization is > not as good as in the front, and it is usually better to narrow down the > sector. > This is not because of Ambisonics, it's because our hearing localizes > phantom sources > from loudspeaker playback in that way. > > I have used this technique in "smearing" the localization of a panned mono > signal. > The mono is panned into some direction and the stereo reverb or delays of > that > mono signal panned into both sides of the mono image. > > if this is the equivalent of fitting a square peg into a round hole... >> > > Or "drilling a square hole with a triangular drill"? :-) > > Not at all. I think your question is very relevant and welcomed. I wish > there would > be more discussion about how the soundfield is used in real life. > > Eero > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/7c7e3f90/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
Hi When you use two channel stereo in the 360 soundfield, pay attention to two things. If you pan the Left and the Right channel of the stereo into directly opposite directions, say + 90 and - 90 degrees (to left and right), you basicly lose the directional cues. What you hear is a very spacious sound image. You cannot detect the directions of individual phantom sources. If this is what you need, do it. It's about the same which directions you use, as rotating the opposite panned stereo doesn't change the illusion practically at all. This technique has been used with dummy head recordings, and yes, it is spacey, but no good sense of directions. If you wish that a stereo image is located somewhere around you, it is better to pan the Left and the Right channel to some certain angle from each other. Try first panning the stereo channels to + 30 and - 30 degrees in front, as in a normal two loudspeaker stereo. You will notice that it sounds a little bit like two channel stereo, but with worse localization, at least in first order Ambisonics. You can then rotate this "sector" to some other direction. At the back and at the sides the localization is not as good as in the front, and it is usually better to narrow down the sector. This is not because of Ambisonics, it's because our hearing localizes phantom sources from loudspeaker playback in that way. I have used this technique in "smearing" the localization of a panned mono signal. The mono is panned into some direction and the stereo reverb or delays of that mono signal panned into both sides of the mono image. if this is the equivalent of fitting a square peg into a round hole... Or "drilling a square hole with a triangular drill"? :-) Not at all. I think your question is very relevant and welcomed. I wish there would be more discussion about how the soundfield is used in real life. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
thats pretty much what you can do with MaxMSP (ICST) not sure about the others - I do it all the time ! I had a freind Romain Domain that made some lovely ICST programming that had 10 sounds swirling one way, ten the other like a vortex. I assume you can do this with Spat as well or even vsts like wigware in a daw. The nice thing about ICST is you can see all the sources on one panner moving around as dots. I wouldnt want to edit video in max though ! On 26 March 2016 at 10:50, Peter Lennox wrote: > Actually, you can do it by using a plug in to rotate the entire field, and > another to counter-rotate the sources you wish to remain static, if you see > what I mean. > > In fact, it would make the basis of a marvellous plugin to bunble these > functions together, that could depict parallax and therefore, distance > perception. > > > Dr. Peter Lennox > Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy > Senior Lecturer in Perception > College of Arts > University of Derby > > Tel: 01332 593155 > > From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine > Leudar [augustineleu...@gmail.com] > Sent: 26 March 2016 05:21 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, > possible? > > I automate panning with ambisonics using ICST ambisonic panner (though you > can automate any panner) . I have often had many sources moving whilst > others stay static - not sure if thats what you mean ? > > On 26 March 2016 at 04:58, Albert Leusink wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Is it possible to have a non-rotating stereo source in the ambisonic > > soundfield, while all the other sources rotate? > > > > Let's say I have a stereo music bed in a spherical video that needs to > stay > > in position, while the other elements (dialog, sfx etc.) respond to > > rotation. > > > > It works for mono (by sending it to just the W channel), but how about > > stereo, maybe some kind of double M/S that counters the rotation ? > > > > Pardon my ignorance beforehand if this is the equivalent of fitting a > > square > > peg into a round hole... > > > > Thanks ! > > > > Albert > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > Augustine Leudar > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > Company Number : NI635217 > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > Belfast BT88LL > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/ae94d9aa/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent > to you in error, please select unsubscribe. > > Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk > For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk > All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/4647d8c1/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible?
Actually, you can do it by using a plug in to rotate the entire field, and another to counter-rotate the sources you wish to remain static, if you see what I mean. In fact, it would make the basis of a marvellous plugin to bunble these functions together, that could depict parallax and therefore, distance perception. Dr. Peter Lennox Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts University of Derby Tel: 01332 593155 From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar [augustineleu...@gmail.com] Sent: 26 March 2016 05:21 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Static stereo source in rotating soundfield, possible? I automate panning with ambisonics using ICST ambisonic panner (though you can automate any panner) . I have often had many sources moving whilst others stay static - not sure if thats what you mean ? On 26 March 2016 at 04:58, Albert Leusink wrote: > Hello, > > Is it possible to have a non-rotating stereo source in the ambisonic > soundfield, while all the other sources rotate? > > Let's say I have a stereo music bed in a spherical video that needs to stay > in position, while the other elements (dialog, sfx etc.) respond to > rotation. > > It works for mono (by sending it to just the W channel), but how about > stereo, maybe some kind of double M/S that counters the rotation ? > > Pardon my ignorance beforehand if this is the equivalent of fitting a > square > peg into a round hole... > > Thanks ! > > Albert > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/ae94d9aa/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent to you in error, please select unsubscribe. Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Flac for FOA or amb files?
Here is the media flow i will try: Multichannel player - VLC or other, I want playlist support http://vbaudio.jcedeveloppement.com/ vbaudio asio bridge one or severat :-) out of this list http://www.sonicprojects.ch/obx/freevsthost.html Rotate foa possibilites - I want headtracker support http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015 - ambix can support headtracker, dont know if possible on vst host - might need reaper http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?page_id=78 - VST plugins for rotation of FOA - headtracker ? Aternatives for FOA to binaural http://www.noisemakers.fr/ for foa to binaural - support SOFA Ambix Have so far not tested the chain :-( - need to have it working on thursday morning :-) One alternative is to use Player (VLC) - ASIO Bridge - Reaper with Ambix and headtracker - Earphones Is there any issues with channel ordering? I also want to compare the different binaural conversion, and the feasability of stereo to binaural conversion with headtracking using foa. Bo-Erik 2016-03-26 0:29 GMT+01:00 Aaron Heller : > From an existing AMB file, any of these will work > > . flac --channel-map=none AJH_eight-positions.amb > > . sox AJH_eight-positions.amb AJH_eight-positions.flac > > . open AMB file in Audacity and then export selecting FLAC format > > Note that FLAC is limited to eight channels, so this will work for > first-order files only. > > I'm curious, how do you use VLC Player with VST plugins? > > Best... > > Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com) > Menlo Park, CA US > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm > wrote: > > > > Has anyone a procedure or description on how to create 4 channel > > Flac flac files? > > > > I want to use VLC as a player on windows to start a vst chain for FOA to > > binaural processing. > > > > Best Regards > > Bo-Erik > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160325/9ec3ef68/attachment.html > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160325/c3def004/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160326/8c76002b/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
