Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release
thx Mick I think I' ll go down the ac3 road - not shire however what nitrate to use.. would sth like 640 for a 4-channel file be ok ?? thx m On 29 Nov 2011, at 21:48, mick ritchie wrote: Hi marinos i missed the bginning of the debate but I went down this road 3 years ago to stream bformat files For your requirements with 4 channels of discrete speaker files I think ac3 is by far the most accessible to anybody who has no 4 channel sound card - a digital link between computer and home ents system and you have 4 speaker playback without any tweaking. Go for the highest spec as they are a bit limp and I remember adding 2 channels of audio silence to ensure all players see the same thing - also some players like vlc need a good one second start before theyve communicated youre in dolby digital to the decoder and you can miss the first note. For streaming with bformat or 4 channel files I found ogg files to be the best quality and I also had grief with VLC - first they worked then after a week they crashed VLC over and over again - I just tried a couple of them and now VLC doesnt read them at all - something about XoX files not being good whatever that means. I just looked online for any developments and came across many problems including my 2008 request that went unanswered. What I did find though was that by making a QTmovie ref file to the ogg file I could then stream in QTPlayer and Itunes(which doesnt accept Ogg) that was what i used. The QTref file allows you to ensure the correct track allocation which ther Ogg alone wouldnt do. I didnt have time to test with all players and just recommended Quicktime which most PC users have Now I can stream a 4 channel FLAC up to a point but FLAC was my preference for download - this was fine in VLC and easily streamed through a bformat decoder. AAC looks interesting now and ive got some binaural experiments to do this week and will try it for some 4 channel while im at it. I use audacity to make my multi track files best mick On 29 Nov 2011, at 00:18, Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: thus far: - I tried ac3 and it seems ok to me - VLC can playback with no problems - I haven' t yet managed to encode to AAC - I get an error that libfaac is missing when using ffmpeg and audacity refuses to find the proper library - still looking for some other encoder - I easily encoded to flac with sox but the size is huge and thus totally inadequate for my purposes - ogg vorbis encode fine with sox but VLC crashes.. so 2 questions: 1. what are the right settings for a HQ quad ac3 ?? I used 44.100 and 192k which sounds ok - but then I don' t have very good speakers to be sure - let aside the file is pretty small which means I can afford higher nitrates 2. What' s the verdict of an aac vs ac3 comparison ??? On 29 Nov 2011, at 00:12, Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: oh yeah I did encode them and they did seem file - but I could not play back them.. it was pretty easy to encode actually.. I google it a bit and there are a couple of bug reports about ogg+video problems - so there seems to be some problem m On 28 Nov 2011, at 23:01, Eero Aro wrote: Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: I tried encoding to 4 channel ogg via both sox and audacity and VLC crashes when I try to playback for some reason, Hmm. I have used the encoder in the past and it worked ok and the files played fine. Sorry, but can't remember if I had any troubles in using the encoder. It could have been possible that I had to to rename the two stereo files in the same way as the Zoom H2 names them. Did the software encode your files anyway? Did you get to that point? Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2029/42cabc6f/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2029/ae7ede95/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release
I tried encoding to 4 channel ogg via both sox and audacity and VLC crashes when I try to playback for some reason, I' m still experimenting with the rest options On 28 Nov 2011, at 20:29, Eero Aro wrote: Vortex Zoom Encoder -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2028/4d24f6d5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release
oh yeah I did encode them and they did seem file - but I could not play back them.. it was pretty easy to encode actually.. I google it a bit and there are a couple of bug reports about ogg+video problems - so there seems to be some problem m On 28 Nov 2011, at 23:01, Eero Aro wrote: Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: I tried encoding to 4 channel ogg via both sox and audacity and VLC crashes when I try to playback for some reason, Hmm. I have used the encoder in the past and it worked ok and the files played fine. Sorry, but can't remember if I had any troubles in using the encoder. It could have been possible that I had to to rename the two stereo files in the same way as the Zoom H2 names them. Did the software encode your files anyway? Did you get to that point? Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2029/42cabc6f/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release
thus far: - I tried ac3 and it seems ok to me - VLC can playback with no problems - I haven' t yet managed to encode to AAC - I get an error that libfaac is missing when using ffmpeg and audacity refuses to find the proper library - still looking for some other encoder - I easily encoded to flac with sox but the size is huge and thus totally inadequate for my purposes - ogg vorbis encode fine with sox but VLC crashes.. so 2 questions: 1. what are the right settings for a HQ quad ac3 ?? I used 44.100 and 192k which sounds ok - but then I don' t have very good speakers to be sure - let aside the file is pretty small which means I can afford higher nitrates 2. What' s the verdict of an aac vs ac3 comparison ??? On 29 Nov 2011, at 00:12, Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: oh yeah I did encode them and they did seem file - but I could not play back them.. it was pretty easy to encode actually.. I google it a bit and there are a couple of bug reports about ogg+video problems - so there seems to be some problem m On 28 Nov 2011, at 23:01, Eero Aro wrote: Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: I tried encoding to 4 channel ogg via both sox and audacity and VLC crashes when I try to playback for some reason, Hmm. I have used the encoder in the past and it worked ok and the files played fine. Sorry, but can't remember if I had any troubles in using the encoder. It could have been possible that I had to to rename the two stereo files in the same way as the Zoom H2 names them. Did the software encode your files anyway? Did you get to that point? Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2029/42cabc6f/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2029/ae7ede95/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release
On 26 Nov 2011, at 06:14, Sampo Syreeni wrote: I'm pretty sure we can tell you what to do with your channels. But first you have to tell us what that data is about, in all. How was it captured? What do you really want to do with it? from a previous post of mine: about the 4 channels: they are 4 channels of audio to be played back by a quad set-up.. In fact they are decoded from a b-format recording, but what I want to release is a quad version of the piece. as I said - it is just a four channel piece.. m -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2026/4e2169b8/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release
if I make a 4 channel ac3 file - wouldn' t that be ok for people having 5.1 setups ?? the order of the 5.1 is FL/FR/SL/SR/C/LF (or I am mistaken in this?) so if somenody tries to playback a 4-channel file it will be routed to all but the sub and the centre, right ??? m On 26 Nov 2011, at 20:04, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 11/25/2011 06:49 PM, Martin Leese wrote: Marinos Koutsomichalismari...@agxivatein.com wrote: quite a few ideas thus far.. but still I' m not quite sure about the most important issue: which is the most 'common' file-format for such things ? Four channel works are not common. Therefore, there are no common file formats for on-line delivery. i'd recommend a 5.1 container format with the center and lfe channels silent. will do something very reasonable for people who have 5.1 setups already, and those haven't will need to wire and move stuff around anyways, so no harm done. just make sure you document what you did very explicitly. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister (VDT) http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2027/36a9528e/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release/side topic
On 25 Nov 2011, at 23:15, Bearcat M. Şandor wrote: If i'm messing around (i'm not a serious audio professional) in Ardour isn't it a wave file first, afaic no. normally you select the kind of file you want your audio saved to. I use aiffs most of the times. And you can convert to lots of other file-types from aiff without having to convert first to wav of course.. -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2026/911fcfb3/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] online multichannel release
about the 4 channels: they are 4 channels of audio to be played back by a quad
set-up.. In fact they are decoded from a b-format recording, but what I want to
release is a quad version of the piece.
as I mentioned I cannot consider wav/aiff and other lossless options because of
their size.
So what I understand from this discussion is that I can use
mp3 / flac / AC3 or DTS
and that more or less they will be ok with most recent players, right ?
so another question arises,
how can I create an interleaved file in each case ? what encoders are available
and what are the easiest/cheapest options ??
can sox do the job ?
m
On 25 Nov 2011, at 20:53, Aaron Heller wrote:
Marinos Koutsomichalis mari...@agxivatein.com wrote:
but still I' m not quite sure about the most important issue:
which is the most 'common' file-format for such things ?
In terms of installed base of players, AC3 and DTS are the most common
formats for delivery of surround audio. VLC player can decode either
one, as can the DVD playing software preinstalled on many PCs.
Ambisonia and Nimbus have distributed 4-channel G-format ('speaker
feed') files in DTS-WAV format, which is DTS encoded audio in a
RIFF/WAV wrapper that can be burnt to a CD and played in most home
theater setups. Judging form the limited statistics I had access to
and the comments on the site, many people downloaded, played
successfully, and enjoyed the DTS-WAV files distributed on Ambisonia.
If you need help with any of this, feel free to ask.
--
Aaron Heller hel...@ai.sri.com
Menlo Park, CA US
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Marinos Koutsomichalis
Music Research Center, University of York
Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC)
www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com
www.agxivatein.com
skype: marinosk_81
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[Sursound] online multichannel release
Hello list, I was asked a 4-channel work for an online-release - I' m now trying to figure out what the best way to release it would be.. I am totally inexperienced in web-friendly file formats for such things.. afaic - I could use mp3-surround - but it' s only 5.1 and this could possibly cause problems - I could use flac - but I' m not sure if common media-players support it - I could try some video format (?) are there any other ideas/observations/advices ?? what is paramount is that the casual listener can listen to the 4-channel mix without having to download nothing or in the worst scenario to download some specialized media-player which is flexible/easy to find and free. maybe there is specialized file-format/media-player or some lossy ambisonics formats for such things ?? -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com skype: marinosk_81 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2025/08bfe1b1/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] ambisonics encoding equation
I was - and actually still am - pretty busy, so I never got started with these, however I plan to start working on some custom decoding ugens soon - but I need to clarify some things first and collect all the papers I need to read for 3d rigs my strategy will probably be to identify the closest canonical configuration to the given, and then attempt to compensate for the deviations () and the distances (with delays) - does this sound rational ? are there any more papers I should read in order to understand better the way this compensation should occur It was mentioned somewhere - not recall unfortunately where - that for second or higher order ambisonics some filtering should also occur - can somebody confirm this ?? Once again, any other the appropriate papers I should read ?? thx On 8 Apr 2011, at 07:36, Aaron Heller wrote: If your array has speakers in diametric opposite pairs, you may want to take a look at our papers at http://www.ai.sri.com/ajh/ambisonics/BLaH.html In particular, the third paper, Is My Decoder Ambisonic? aka BLaH3. I'd be happy answer any questions you have. -- Aaron Heller hel...@ai.sri.com Menlo Park, CA US On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Marinos Koutsomichalis mari...@agxivatein.com wrote: Hello, I' ve been looking for the ambisonics decoding equation (for custom rigs of arbitrary speakers) [...] can anyone give me the right equation ? or better redirect me to some paper ?? thx -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) Faculty of Music Technology Acoustics - TEI of Crete www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) Faculty of Music Technology Acoustics - TEI of Crete www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com cell gr: +306938954510 cell uk: +44(0)7423103563 -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) Faculty of Music Technology Acoustics - TEI of Crete www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com www.agxivatein.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20110805/d282/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics max/MSP 8 speakers - ICST Ambisonic Externals
any other place where I can get ambdec ? m On 24 Μαρ 2011, at 1:24 π.μ., Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: Hello, the link is broken or the server is down.. m -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) Faculty of Music Technology Acoustics - TEI of Crete www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com On 22 Μαρ 2011, at 8:21 π.μ., Hector Centeno wrote: Hello Darren, You can download the package I made for ambdec here: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/ambdec_0.4.2.pkg You require JackOSX ( www.jackosx.com ) and X11 (this last one should be already installed if you have OS X 10.5 or above). I also made a launcher that will be installed in your applications directory, in a folder containing both the launcher app and the ambdec presets. I haven't fully tested this installer so please let me know if you encounter any problems. Best, Hector Centeno p.s. I don't have bidule so I've not tested those ambisonic bidules. I'll keep it in mind for when I get a chance. On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Darren - Bradley i...@sacredresonance.com.au wrote: Thanks I would like to download the OS X version when you have done it I sent you an email hopefully you got it otherwise please forward it onto me when you have done it, many thanks also what you think of - Ambisonic Bidules - http://www.digenis.co.uk/?page_id=59 ? cheers Darren ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics max/MSP 8 speakers - ICST Ambisonic Externals
sorry, I missed Hector' s mail, pls ignore.. On 26 Μαρ 2011, at 6:36 μ.μ., Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: any other place where I can get ambdec ? m On 24 Μαρ 2011, at 1:24 π.μ., Marinos Koutsomichalis wrote: Hello, the link is broken or the server is down.. m -- Marinos Koutsomichalis Music Research Center, University of York Contemporary Music Research Centre (CMRC) Faculty of Music Technology Acoustics - TEI of Crete www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com On 22 Μαρ 2011, at 8:21 π.μ., Hector Centeno wrote: Hello Darren, You can download the package I made for ambdec here: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/ambdec_0.4.2.pkg You require JackOSX ( www.jackosx.com ) and X11 (this last one should be already installed if you have OS X 10.5 or above). I also made a launcher that will be installed in your applications directory, in a folder containing both the launcher app and the ambdec presets. I haven't fully tested this installer so please let me know if you encounter any problems. Best, Hector Centeno p.s. I don't have bidule so I've not tested those ambisonic bidules. I'll keep it in mind for when I get a chance. On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Darren - Bradley i...@sacredresonance.com.au wrote: Thanks I would like to download the OS X version when you have done it I sent you an email hopefully you got it otherwise please forward it onto me when you have done it, many thanks also what you think of - Ambisonic Bidules - http://www.digenis.co.uk/?page_id=59 ? cheers Darren ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
