[Sursound] Soundfield Mark IV mic.

[Thomas Chen]

Does anyine have schematica for the Soundfield Mark IV mic.  I need someone to 
repair the 2 channel output.ThanksThomas Chen
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Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical arrangement

[Thomas Chen]

I have set up 16 speakers in a two layer octagon, 8 locations with an up and 
down at each location.  This is a decode as a cylinder.  It has worked well.  I 
also used Genelecs.  I mounted the speakers in a long narrow box with a bottom 
and top.  In the Studio I used a Clearstory lighting box and floor as the 
supports.

ThomasChen

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Martin Dupras 
To: Surround Sound discussion group 
Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2016 9:42 am
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical 
arrangement

That's very useful. Thanks, Dave.

- martin


On 8 February 2016 at 17:40, Dave Hunt  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> The other thing I would welcome is advice on how to mount the speakers
>> to lighting rigs in a manner that is practical enough to offer some
>> good compromise between precision and ease of setup. I believe the
>> speakers we'll be using for the upper tiers will be Genelec 8060s.
>
>
> There do seem to be suitable mountings, though I can't find any mention of
> the 8060.
>
> http://www.genelec.com/sites/default/files/media/Studio%20monitors/Accessories/genelec_accessories_brochure.pdf
>
> That is , if you can find them to hire, and afford them
>
> Ciao,
>
> Dave Hunt
>
>
>>
>> From: Martin Dupras 
>> Date: 8 February 2016 15:19:08 GMT
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>> Subject: [Sursound] Advice on practicalities of 16-speaker half-spherical
>> arrangement
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm intending to try setting up a 16-speaker Ambisonics array next
>> week in a small TV studio. I'm trying to figure out the practical
>> arrangements for setting up the speakers. I was wondering if anyone
>> with experience might be able to offer some advice or point me in the
>> right direction?
>>
>> What I'm planning at the moment is a half-sphere arrangement which
>> would likely consist of:
>>
>> - 8 speakers in a circle of radius 2m at a height of approximately 1.6m
>> - 6 speakers in a smaller circle at an elevation of 45 degrees
>> - 2 speakers at an elevation of approximately 75 degrees
>>
>> Alternatively, I would be happy with an arrangement similar to the
>> first 16-speakers in this diagramme:
>>
>> http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/loudspeaker-plan-observatory.jpg
>>
>> I've been trying to find out if there is a convention or "most usual"
>> arrangement but couldn't find anything. I'm not particularly attached
>> to the actual arrangement, I just want to find an arrangement that
>> will work well enough with 16 speakers. Any advice?
>>
>> The other thing I would welcome is advice on how to mount the speakers
>> to lighting rigs in a manner that is practical enough to offer some
>> good compromise between precision and ease of setup. I believe the
>> speakers we'll be using for the upper tiers will be Genelec 8060s.
>>
>> Many thanks. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - martin
>
>
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Re: [Sursound] Sound localisation techniques

[Thomas Chen]

I use 16 speakers in a dual hexagon(up and down).  I think that spacing at 45 
degrees will give good results.  I also space the two on each of the r walls of 
the room.  I think the corners are bad because of the time differential between 
the speakers i.e. length of the radius from the center.


ThomasChen



-Original Message-
From: Augustine Leudar 
To: suso ; Surround Sound discussion group 

Sent: Thu, May 1, 2014 9:41 am
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound localisation techniques


actually contact this guy he did exactly what you are saying in Max :

http://www.romaindumaine.com/#/main

also Nuendo new versions allow for it (amplitude panning based not
ambisonics)
Gus


On 1 May 2014 17:35, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> I would use four at ear height or a bit lower even and four in the corners
> of the room or - a cube starting at ear height. However you could also mess
> around with some of the DBAP (distance based amplitude panning) max
> externals which let you tell the system where the speakers are and then pan
> around them - you can have all sorts of weird and irregular speaker arrays
> - no need to stay peripheral - depends what you want to do I guess:
>
>
>
> *http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/dbap-external/
> *
> by the way its easy to do exactly what you are suggesting with
> ICSTsambipanning~  or any panner which allows for multiple soundsources and
> recordable trajectories (automation)
> *. *
> enjoy !
> Gus
>
>
> On 29 April 2014 05:09, Michael Chapman  wrote:
>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > I'm looking into experimenting with live 3D panning of sound tracks
>> from a
>> > DAW. The tracks will not be in B-format as I do not have a soundfield
>> mic.
>> > I have 8 identical M-audio AV 40 speakers which I will be driving
>> through
>> > an interface and Max/MSP code (
>> > http://www.icst.net/research/projects/ambisonics-tools/).
>> >
>> The comment has already been made: You don't need a mic to make digital
>> audio ...
>> For ambisonics, anything other than first order must (almost) certainly
>> have been created (with or without mics).
>>
>> > I'm primarily interested in taking a mix for my speaker array and being
>> > able to tilt / rotate / reflect etc. all of the tracks simultaneously.
>> >
>> That sounds like ambisonics,
>> but I would (for ambisonics) phrase it as: Making a mix fo any speaker
>> array, being able to tilt, etc., and being able to listen to the result on
>> 'any' array ... including my own.
>>
>> > - Any advice on speaker placement for 8 speakers in a small bedroom? I'm
>> > currently thinking the 6 corners of a cube and then left and right on
>> the
>> > wall at ear level.
>> >
>> Think we'd need to see the bedroom  or at least hear about it 
>>
>> Eight sounds like the corners of a cube (you mention six ... that would be
>> the faces, and not as 'simple' to deal with (nor (?) anything like as
>> good)).
>>
>> > - Are ambisonics techniques the best/only way to do this given that I
>> > don't
>> > have B-format?
>> >
>> Everyone with a computer 'has' B-format ;-)>
>>
>> > - Any references that would be good for a newbie to read? My background
>> is
>> > in math and programming, so technical material is fine.
>> >
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Michael
>>
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>
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[Sursound] Fwd: [4]

[Thomas Chen]

Hey! 
http://aubert.com.br/_visit.one.of.the.best.sites?rjbjtut=8188597&icenjbyd=491929



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Re: [Sursound] Giving Precedence to Ambisonics

[Thomas Chen]

I use delays in the recording situation especially with the center mic and the 
lateral mics give 3ms early sound. there is 6 mc of time between left and 
right.  


thomaschen



-Original Message-
From: Fons Adriaensen 
To: sursound 
Sent: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Giving Precedence to Ambisonics


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 01:52:55PM -0400, Thomas Chen wrote:

> By adding time to the recording you can keep the edges still
> left and right however the center will move as you move.

The center still moves, as by symmetry you can't use delays there.
The edges will stay put even without delays as they are only
reproduced by one speaker. Using delays to keep something fixed
in between the center and the edges seems at least as unstable 
as using amplitude differences alone, unless the delays are so
large that they  will pull such sources to the edges anyway.
So what is the point of using delays ?


Ciao,

-- 
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Re: [Sursound] Giving Precedence to Ambisonics

[Thomas Chen]

I use an array which is an extented OCT array with M/S and a center and two 
hypercardoid mics pointed at +/- 90 degrees at aproximately 0.5 meter 
laterally.  I have found that we have been ignoring the precedint effect in 
music reproduction.  In the classic reproduction situation, i.e. 6 feet from 
each speaker and spaced 6 feet apart, you will find that the image will move to 
one side or the other if you move your head by as little as 6 inches.  Any 
mixer will confirm this experience.   By adding time to the recording you can 
keep the edges still left and right however the center will move as you move.


ThomasChen



-Original Message-
From: Aaron Heller 
To: Eric Carmichel ; Surround Sound discussion group 

Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 11:06 am
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Giving Precedence to Ambisonics


Ron Streicher has written about using a Soundfield as the middle mic in a
Decca tree

   http://www.wesdooley.com/pdf/Surround_Sound_Decca_Tree-urtext.pdf

and Tom Chen has a system he calls B+ Format, which augments first-order
B-format from a Soundfield mic with a forward ORTF pair.   I've heard it on
orchestral recordings at his studio in Stockton and it sharpens up the
orchestra image nicely.

Aaron Heller (hel...@ai.sri.com)
Menlo Park, CA  US


On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Eric Carmichel  wrote:

> Greetings All,
> I have a friend who's an advocate of the Decca Tree mic arrangement. Many
> of his recordings (a lot of choir and guitar) sound quite nice, so I looked
> into aspects of the Decca Tree technique. For those who may not be
> familiar, the *traditional* Decca Tree arrangement is comprised of three
> spaced omnidirectional mics. A center microphone is spaced slightly
> forward. From what I've read thus far (Spatial Audio by Francis Rumsey,
> Focal
> Press; and selected articles in the AES Stereophonic Techniques
> Anthology), the slightly advanced time-of-arrival for the center mic
> stabilizes the central image due the precedence effect. However, the
> existence of the third (center) mic can result in exacerbated
> comb-filtering effects that can arise with spaced pairs. So, to avoid these
> filtering effects, bring on a Soundfield / Ambisonic mic...??
> As I understand, Ambisonics already takes into consideration known
> psychoacoustical principles, and is why shelving is used to *optimize* ILDs
> and ITDs above and below 700 Hz, respectively. But as many readers may
> know, there are some nearly unpredictable ILD/ITD effects at approx. 1.7
> kHz (for example, see Mills, 1972, Foundations of Modern Auditory Theory).
> Creating a virtual Decca Tree seems straightforward. To move the center
> channel, or a virtual mic *forward* would require little more than offline
> processing. I wonder whether anybody has tried the following: Slightly
> delay all channels except the signal (or feeds) that make up the
> forward-most (central) channel. Using an Ambisonic mic would eliminate
> combing effects. I realize a number of Ambisonic plug-ins have built-in
> crossed-cardiod, Blumlein, and spaced omni functions, but not sure I've
> seen any of them give *precedence* to the precedence effect or Decca Tree
> arrangement.
> Two-channel playback (both convention and binaural) is here to stay for a
> while, so optimizing Ambisonics for stereo is desirable to me. In fact, one
> of my favorite recordings from the late 80s was made with the band (The
> Cowboy Junkies) circled around a Calrec Soundfield mic. I've never heard
> whether the Trinity Session recording was released in a surround format, or
> if the mic's hardware decoder converted straight to stereo from the get go.
> That particular recording made me aware of the Soundfield mic, though
> surround sound wasn't an interest for me at that time.
> If anybody I had attempted the Decca Tree using an Ambisonic mic (even
> with addition of a separate and forward omni mic), I'd be interested in
> knowing what your experiences were.
> Many thanks for your time.
> Best,
> Eric C. (the C continues to remind readers that this post submitted by the
> *off-the-cuff* Eric)
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