[Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
Dear Members of Sursound, i am using the VVMicVst Plugin in Reaper for mixing and decoding my B-Format recordings. The plugin is limited to an output of 8 channels. For a new sound installation, I would like to decode to 16 channels (two circles of 8 speakers stacked). I know that I could use ICST for Max, but if possible in any way, I would to keep on working in a DAW. Are there any other plugins or tools available for this purpose (OSX) ? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Best, Moritz -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/2415a0a0/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
Dear Members of Sursound, i am using the VVMicVst Plugin in Reaper for mixing and decoding my B-Format recordings. The plugin is limited to an output of 8 channels. For a new sound installation, I would like to decode to 16 channels (two circles of 8 speakers stacked). I know that I could use ICST for Max, but if possible in any way, I would to keep on working in a DAW. Are there any other plugins or tools available for this purpose (OSX) ? OSX : Ambdec ... ? Michael You can input / output through a DAW if you use Jack. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
hi everyone, thank you very much for your replies -- what i would like to achieve is playing a mix of a b-format recording combined with several mono- and stereofiles (have been doing this a lot, but only with a maximum of 8 channels). my mixing platform is reaper on osx. i am going to record a space with a soundfield mic and i would like to then make a simulation of it by setting up an array of 16 speakers. one speaker circle is on ear level, the other one above. i would like to use the second circle above to add height information to the ambisonic soundfield. as i can see now, adding a second instance of vvmic or harpex might not be suitable as it would generate two separate soundfields. (not sure if i am right here...) the b2x plugins seem to have a maximum of 12 outputs. ...i will look at ambdec but it does seem to need a lot of routing using jack. would the decopro vst plugin (http://www.gerzonic.net/) be a good choice for this purpose? thank you ! moritz Am 03.07.2013 um 15:38 schrieb Matthias Kronlachner: hi! you may just add an additional 8 channel track for a second instance of vvmicvst in reaper. send the 4 channel ambisonics signal to this newly created instance hosting vvmicvst, and route the outputs as you like. but if this approach gives you good decoding is another issue.. matthias On 7/3/13 1:37 PM, Moritz Fehr wrote: Dear Members of Sursound, i am using the VVMicVst Plugin in Reaper for mixing and decoding my B-Format recordings. The plugin is limited to an output of 8 channels. For a new sound installation, I would like to decode to 16 channels (two circles of 8 speakers stacked). I know that I could use ICST for Max, but if possible in any way, I would to keep on working in a DAW. Are there any other plugins or tools available for this purpose (OSX) ? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Best, Moritz -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/2415a0a0/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound * Moritz Fehr mobil: 01749231733 moritzf...@web.de www.moritzfehr.de -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/66f54ac4/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
...i will look at ambdec but it does seem to need a lot of routing using jack. Sixteen speakers need a lot of routing whatever you use ... said not to be unfriendly, just to emphasise I'm not sure I understand ;-) If you are worried about repeatedly having to connect everything, then IIRC the GUI's to Jack allow for a 'save this configuration'. Even without that Ambdec configuration allows for named connections (sorry it's along time since I set one up). Michael ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
I have done this--smbisonic decoded to 2 hexagons one above the other. I have also add a stereo mix into the decode. It is known as B+ ThomasChen In a message dated 7/3/2013 7:34:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, m...@moritzfehr.de writes: hi everyone, thank you very much for your replies -- what i would like to achieve is playing a mix of a b-format recording combined with several mono- and stereofiles (have been doing this a lot, but only with a maximum of 8 channels). my mixing platform is reaper on osx. i am going to record a space with a soundfield mic and i would like to then make a simulation of it by setting up an array of 16 speakers. one speaker circle is on ear level, the other one above. i would like to use the second circle above to add height information to the ambisonic soundfield. as i can see now, adding a second instance of vvmic or harpex might not be suitable as it would generate two separate soundfields. (not sure if i am right here...) the b2x plugins seem to have a maximum of 12 outputs. ...i will look at ambdec but it does seem to need a lot of routing using jack. would the decopro vst plugin (http://www.gerzonic.net/) be a good choice for this purpose? thank you ! moritz Am 03.07.2013 um 15:38 schrieb Matthias Kronlachner: hi! you may just add an additional 8 channel track for a second instance of vvmicvst in reaper. send the 4 channel ambisonics signal to this newly created instance hosting vvmicvst, and route the outputs as you like. but if this approach gives you good decoding is another issue.. matthias On 7/3/13 1:37 PM, Moritz Fehr wrote: Dear Members of Sursound, i am using the VVMicVst Plugin in Reaper for mixing and decoding my B-Format recordings. The plugin is limited to an output of 8 channels. For a new sound installation, I would like to decode to 16 channels (two circles of 8 speakers stacked). I know that I could use ICST for Max, but if possible in any way, I would to keep on working in a DAW. Are there any other plugins or tools available for this purpose (OSX) ? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Best, Moritz -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/2415a0a0/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound * Moritz Fehr mobil: 01749231733 moritzf...@web.de www.moritzfehr.de -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/66f54ac4/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/3854bdfa/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
Moritz Fehr wrote: ... i am going to record a space with a soundfield mic and i would like to then make a simulation of it by setting up an array of 16 speakers. one speaker circle is on ear level, the other one above. i would like to use the second circle above to add height information to the ambisonic soundfield. You will have more success if one speaker ring is *below* ear level and the other above. Alternatively, if you need a ring at ear level, try three rings of, say, 4, 6, and 4 speakers. Regards, Martin -- Martin J Leese E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
as i can see now, adding a second instance of vvmic or harpex might not be suitable as it would generate two separate soundfields. (not sure if i am right here...) I can't speak for Harpex (and I can imagine reasons why it might not work), but it should be no problem to use two copies of VVMicVST. Each output depends only on the inputs and the parameters for that output. A given output will not be affected by the azi/elevation/etc. of the other mics. Of course, what is correct is a question of the whole set, but that set can span several instances of the plugin. David P.S. the standalone Windows program VVMic supports 32 outputs if this helps ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
Hi Moritz, I've been building Ambisonic decoders in Faust, which can then be compiled into a variety of plugins, including VST, PureData, SuperCollider, and so forth. What you need sounds easy to do. Contact me directly ( hel...@ai.sri.com) and we can work out the details. Info about Faust here: http://faust.grame.fr Aaron Heller (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA US On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Moritz Fehr m...@moritzfehr.de wrote: hi everyone, thank you very much for your replies -- what i would like to achieve is playing a mix of a b-format recording combined with several mono- and stereofiles (have been doing this a lot, but only with a maximum of 8 channels). my mixing platform is reaper on osx. i am going to record a space with a soundfield mic and i would like to then make a simulation of it by setting up an array of 16 speakers. one speaker circle is on ear level, the other one above. i would like to use the second circle above to add height information to the ambisonic soundfield. as i can see now, adding a second instance of vvmic or harpex might not be suitable as it would generate two separate soundfields. (not sure if i am right here...) the b2x plugins seem to have a maximum of 12 outputs. ...i will look at ambdec but it does seem to need a lot of routing using jack. would the decopro vst plugin (http://www.gerzonic.net/) be a good choice for this purpose? thank you ! moritz Am 03.07.2013 um 15:38 schrieb Matthias Kronlachner: hi! you may just add an additional 8 channel track for a second instance of vvmicvst in reaper. send the 4 channel ambisonics signal to this newly created instance hosting vvmicvst, and route the outputs as you like. but if this approach gives you good decoding is another issue.. matthias On 7/3/13 1:37 PM, Moritz Fehr wrote: Dear Members of Sursound, i am using the VVMicVst Plugin in Reaper for mixing and decoding my B-Format recordings. The plugin is limited to an output of 8 channels. For a new sound installation, I would like to decode to 16 channels (two circles of 8 speakers stacked). I know that I could use ICST for Max, but if possible in any way, I would to keep on working in a DAW. Are there any other plugins or tools available for this purpose (OSX) ? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Best, Moritz -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/2415a0a0/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound * Moritz Fehr mobil: 01749231733 moritzf...@web.de www.moritzfehr.de -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/66f54ac4/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130703/c547d59e/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics - Decoding 16 channels in DAW
On Wed, Jul 03, 2013 at 01:15:58PM -0400, Daniel Courville wrote: Two instances of Harpex-B, each one on a separate output bus, in shotgun mode, each decoding to eight shotguns, using the Cube preset as a starting point. M Readers of this list will know me as one of those who, whenever Ambisonic file formats etc. are discussed, will spoil the fun by stating that there's no life below third order or so. And of course I'm still of that opinion - if you want a system able to emulate whatever speaker layout and working over an extended listening area things start to work at third order. But that doesn't mean that first order doesn't work. It can work incredibly well in good conditions. Ten days ago I spent an extended weekend at the music conservatory of Pesaro (Italy), where David Monacchi (who is a teacher at the conservatory) has built an electronic music studio featuring a 3rd order periphonic Ambisonic system using 21 speakers. The room has had extensive acoustical treament, the only remaining problems are some low frequency room modes (bass traps are being installed to deal with those). I got involved for specifying the ambisonic speaker layout and decoder. David has also made field recordings (Ambisonic, stereo and bin- aural) in primary forests in various places around he globe. These are absolutely fascinating - I you were at the first AMB convention in Graz you will remember his presentation. I had already made a third order Ambdec preset for this room. But since we had little real third order material to test with, we spent a lot of time listening to David's field recordings and to some others he made recently using an ST450. David was using several instances of Harpex to render those. This worked, but neither of us were really satisfied with the results. So I created a first order Ambdec preset using a subset (12) of the available speakers. The results were astonishing. Suddenly there was depth, perspective, involvement, and an uncanny sense of realism. It took both of us half a minute or so to adapt to it - something that has been reported before. But after that short time it was really a completely different experience. In short: the Ambisonic magic only works when things are done right. Using virtual shotgun mics pointing at some arbitrary collection of speakers (or even a near optimal one as in this case) may produce some effect, but it doesn't even come close to what can be achieved. And in fact it has little or nothing to do with real Ambisonic reproduction. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
