Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On 03/27/2018 01:18 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 09:08:54PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:


Sweet! A resounding "me too" to Stefan's question about the matrix, since
you're one channel short :)
Looking at the geometry, I guess you sacrificed the second-order
rotationally symmetric component (FuMa R or ACN 08), which seems to be a
good choice to me.


ACN 6 (= R) actually. The only possible choice given this geometry.
The actual R output is derived from W, which is correct for (near)
horizontal sources.


Hey Fons, hmmm... it is better to inject the proper amount of W into R 
than to have no R at all? I can see how everything would be (slightly?) 
more correct for (near) horizontal sources given the shape of R 
(horizontal plane omni), but it would also alias into R anything that 
comes from non-(near)horizontal sources. Presumably that does not matter 
as much?


-- Fernando


The A/B processing is a combination of IIR filters and an 8 by 8
convolution matrix. The real magic is of course how this matrix
is computed. To know more you'll have to sell your soul :-)


___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Len Moskowitz]

David Pickett wrote:

In addition to the Zoom 8-track recorder that is mentioned on your 
website, I would recommend the similarly priced Roland R-88, which has 
the significant advantage that the controls are easier to adjust for 
those of us with large hands!


We haven't had any reports from our customers on the Roland R-88, so we 
didn't include it. We're in the same situation with SonoSax's eight 
channel recorder setup.


The Zoom F8 and Sound Devices MixPre-10T offer modern pre-amp design and 
the ability to gang the eight trims.


We also recommend that levels between channels be matched to within 0.1 
dB.


Does the R-88 offer those features? The older R-44 did not.


Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 03/27/2018 10:18 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 09:08:54PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
  

Sweet! A resounding "me too" to Stefan's question about the matrix, since
you're one channel short :)
Looking at the geometry, I guess you sacrificed the second-order
rotationally symmetric component (FuMa R or ACN 08), which seems to be a
good choice to me.


ACN 6 (= R) actually. 
Ah crap, it's 8 by Jerôme's counting scheme. Still getting bitten by 
those after all these years :-D


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[David Pickett]

Len,

In addition to the Zoom 8-track recorder that is mentioned on your 
website, I would recommend the similarly priced Roland R-88, which 
has the significant advantage that the controls are easier to adjust 
for those of us with large hands!


David

At 15:59 27-03-18, Len Moskowitz wrote:

core-sound.com/OctoMic/1.php


Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic


___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe 
here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.


___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Len Moskowitz]

 J?rn Nettingsmeier wrote:

Sweet! A resounding "me too" to Stefan's question about the 
matrix,since you're one channel short :)


OctoMic is a 2h1v microphone. The channel that's compensated for in 
OctoMic's 2nd-order B-format is R. It's *not* missing.


And of course, the 1st-order vertical channel is still present.

What's that disclaimer about third-party PPAs? I mean, your PPA seems 
to be an integral part of the mic, given that it produces unbalanced 
signals. Is there any other magic going on there?


It's a very competitive world, so please forgive me if I don't answer 
you.


I wonder if you can get ZOOM to include an octomic firmware in the F8 
eventually, as Sennheiser did with their Ambeo mic, that one's mighty 
handy.


Sennheiser uses a single generic encoder for all of their 1st-order 
microphones. That allows Zoom to easily do the A- to B-format for all 
Sennheiser microphones.


From our perspective, that's not a great idea, because microphones and 
capsules age - they are different even straight from the factory - and 
there's currently no way to compensate for aging drift in Sennheiser's 
product.


From the start, we allow for differences between microphones by 
individually measuring each TetraMic and OctoMic; we provide a unique 
calibration file for each microphone.


Of course, as a Sennheiser microphone ages and drifts, you could send it 
to us for measurement and calibration. We'd measure it and return it 
with its calibration file. From then on you'd use the encoders 
recommended for TetraMic.


We recommend re-calibration every three years for 1st-order microphones 
used for general applications, and every two years for those used for 
acoustic measurement applications.


Can I assume that there is an updated version of TetraProc for the 
followers of the penguin?


Yes. Fons commented on this in the last Sursound Digest.

And looking at the shop, I don't see the Rycote lyre listed yet - is 
it a generic one that can be had from them, or something custom-made 
and not quite ready yet?


It's a common Rycote product: the INV-7. You can use it with either the 
the standard black 72 Shore lyres or the red 62 Shore lyres. It's 
available from Rycote retailers.



Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Len Moskowitz]

Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

They'd better come up with drivers for the products they've already 
sold, years ago, e.g. core sound drivers for their useless sorround 
headphones.


Core Sound LLC has never, ever sold surround headphones - nor headphones 
of any kind - so I don't know what you're referring to.


Perhaps you're thinking of a "core audio" software driver for another 
manufacturer's product? Core Sound LLC is not related in any way to 
"core audio" drivers.



Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Fernando Lopez-Lezcano]

On 03/27/2018 01:18 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 09:08:54PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:


Sweet! A resounding "me too" to Stefan's question about the matrix, since
you're one channel short :)
Looking at the geometry, I guess you sacrificed the second-order
rotationally symmetric component (FuMa R or ACN 08), which seems to be a
good choice to me.


ACN 6 (= R) actually. The only possible choice given this geometry.
The actual R output is derived from W, which is correct for (near)
horizontal sources.
The A/B processing is a combination of IIR filters and an 8 by 8
convolution matrix. The real magic is of course how this matrix
is computed. To know more you'll have to sell your soul :-)


Ha ha! I thought I had not done that!!! What I have must be the result 
of a (hopefully) short-term rental agreement in the fine print of some 
other contract...


I've been slowly working on an A to B encoder for my version of Eric's 
eight capsule design (the Octathingy). Simpler than yours, and an 
extension of the quad capsule encoder that I initially thought could not 
possibly work for the eight capsule design (I get "reasonable" polar 
patterns at this point). For now a static A to B matrix (8x8) followed 
by FIR filters for each component. The devil is around somewhere (in the 
details :-)...


-- Fernando



Can I assume that there is an updated version of TetraProc for the followers
of the penguin?


See previous post.


And looking at the shop, I don't see the Rycote lyre listed yet - is it a
generic one that can be had from them,


AFAIK, yes. They also have one for the Tetramic. I have it, it's quite
effective. Also fits into the wind shield and optional 'dead kitten'.


I'm trying to come up with a good business case to order one asap, and since
I'm good at fooling myself, it might just happen :-D


Just let me know if and when :-)

Ciao,



___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Stefan Schreiber]

Nice discussion here, interesting for professionals (Fons) and  
amateurs (me TOO!) alike.


Sipping some night coffee... 🙂

Stefan

Citando Fons Adriaensen :


On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 09:08:54PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:


Sweet! A resounding "me too" to Stefan's question about the matrix, since

 you're one channel short :)

 Looking at the geometry, I guess you sacrificed the second-order

 rotationally symmetric component (FuMa R or ACN 08), which seems to be a

 good choice to me.


ACN 6 (= R) actually. The only possible choice given this geometry.

 The actual R output is derived from W, which is correct for (near)

 horizontal sources.

 The A/B processing is a combination of IIR filters and an 8 by 8

 convolution matrix. The real magic is of course how this matrix

 is computed. To know more you'll have to sell your soul :-)


Can I assume that there is an updated version of TetraProc for the followers

 of the penguin?


See previous post.


And looking at the shop, I don't see the Rycote lyre listed yet - is it a

 generic one that can be had from them,


AFAIK, yes. They also have one for the Tetramic. I have it, it's quite

 effective. Also fits into the wind shield and optional 'dead kitten'.


I'm trying to come up with a good business case to order one asap, and since

 I'm good at fooling myself, it might just happen :-D


Just let me know if and when :-)



 Ciao,



 --

 FA







 ___

 Sursound mailing list

  
surso...@music.vt.eduhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound[1]  
- unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.




Ligações:
-
[1]
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 09:08:54PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
 
> Sweet! A resounding "me too" to Stefan's question about the matrix, since
> you're one channel short :)
> Looking at the geometry, I guess you sacrificed the second-order
> rotationally symmetric component (FuMa R or ACN 08), which seems to be a
> good choice to me.

ACN 6 (= R) actually. The only possible choice given this geometry.
The actual R output is derived from W, which is correct for (near)
horizontal sources.
The A/B processing is a combination of IIR filters and an 8 by 8
convolution matrix. The real magic is of course how this matrix
is computed. To know more you'll have to sell your soul :-)

> Can I assume that there is an updated version of TetraProc for the followers
> of the penguin?

See previous post.

> And looking at the shop, I don't see the Rycote lyre listed yet - is it a
> generic one that can be had from them,

AFAIK, yes. They also have one for the Tetramic. I have it, it's quite
effective. Also fits into the wind shield and optional 'dead kitten'.

> I'm trying to come up with a good business case to order one asap, and since
> I'm good at fooling myself, it might just happen :-D

Just let me know if and when :-)

Ciao,

-- 
FA



___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 03/27/2018 03:59 PM, Len Moskowitz wrote:

core-sound.com/OctoMic/1.php


Sweet! A resounding "me too" to Stefan's question about the matrix, 
since you're one channel short :)
Looking at the geometry, I guess you sacrificed the second-order 
rotationally symmetric component (FuMa R or ACN 08), which seems to be a 
good choice to me.


What's that disclaimer about third-party PPAs? I mean, your PPA seems to 
be an integral part of the mic, given that it produces unbalanced 
signals. Is there any other magic going on there?


I wonder if you can get ZOOM to include an octomic firmware in the F8 
eventually, as Sennheiser did with their Ambeo mic, that one's mighty 
handy. (Not that I'm holding my breath, I wouldn't be surprised if there 
were some exclusive deals at play...)


Can I assume that there is an updated version of TetraProc for the 
followers of the penguin?


And looking at the shop, I don't see the Rycote lyre listed yet - is it 
a generic one that can be had from them, or something custom-made and 
not quite ready yet?


I'm trying to come up with a good business case to order one asap, and 
since I'm good at fooling myself, it might just happen :-D



All best,


Jörn




--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 27.03.18 um 15:59 schrieb Len Moskowitz:


core-sound.com/OctoMic/1.php


They'd better come up with drivers for the products they've already 
sold, years ago, e.g. core sound drivers for their useless sorround 
headphones.


Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de
___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

Re: [Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Stefan Schreiber]

Hi Len,

very interesting, and potentially a major progress in SF recording...

I already have talked about this in private mails, but just to clarify:

Is this a 2h1v mixed order microphone? If not, how do you derive 2nd  
order signals?


(What I see are two rings of 4 capsules, shifted 45° against each other.)

Best regards

Stefan

Citando Len Moskowitz :


core-sound.com/OctoMic/1.php[1]





 Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)

 Core Sound LLC

 www.core-sound.com[2]

 Home of TetraMic and OctoMic





 ___

 Sursound mailing list

  
surso...@music.vt.eduhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound[3]  
- unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.




Ligações:
-
[1] http://core-sound.com/OctoMic/1.php
[2] http://www.core-sound.com
[3]
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.

[Sursound] Core Sound Announces OctoMic - First 2nd-order Ambisonics Microphone

[Len Moskowitz]

core-sound.com/OctoMic/1.php


Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic


___
Sursound mailing list
Sursound@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit 
account or options, view archives and so on.