Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-20 Thread Jörn Nettngsmeier 
Then dont matrix it, just pan the individual capsules and adjust the levels to 
taste. The fig8 you can pan 90 deg and then disconnect the w output. Should 
sound pretty ok. But if you say bformat, people assume isotropic and rotatable, 
which this setup is not.

On 19 July 2016 18:52:52 CEST, Billy Wirasnik  wrote:
>The Audio Technica mid-side "shotgun" has a hyper-cardioid element for
>mid,
>figure 8 for side and not using an interference tube to the best of my
>knowledge. Not identical or perfect by any means but will hopefully
>create
>a rudimentary sound field. The final B-format product will actually be
>mixed into the background to give a slight sense of movement. It won't
>even
>be synced to production visuals and our main stereo recording.
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:52 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier <
>netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:
>
>> On 17.07.2016 10:08, Billy Wirasnik wrote:
>>
>>> Its a home brew rig for sure. Thrown together very last minute and
>sadly
>>> the day before my Tetramic arrived. It was a Schoeps MK41 sitting
>180 on
>>> an
>>> Audio Technica BP4027 MS shotgun.
>>>
>>
>> That is not a double-MS setup. The double-MS needs identical capsules
>for
>> front and back. When you combine a shotgun and a rear-facing
>supercardioid,
>> the result is not an omni, but rather something very sad :)
>> The point of B-format processing is to obtain an isotropic sound
>field.
>> Due to the shape of your W, yours will be so-so in the front,
>completely
>> unusable at the sides, and possibly excellent in the back. Not a good
>> starting point.
>>
>> --
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier
>> Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
>>
>> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
>> Tonmeister VDT
>>
>> http://stackingdwarves.net
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>
>*Billy Wirasnik*
>
>*Director | Slo.Media *
>
>*Sound Designer | BillyWirasnik.com *
>
>845-417-8290
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-- 
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net
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Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-19 Thread Billy Wirasnik 
The Audio Technica mid-side "shotgun" has a hyper-cardioid element for mid,
figure 8 for side and not using an interference tube to the best of my
knowledge. Not identical or perfect by any means but will hopefully create
a rudimentary sound field. The final B-format product will actually be
mixed into the background to give a slight sense of movement. It won't even
be synced to production visuals and our main stereo recording.


On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:52 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier <
netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:

> On 17.07.2016 10:08, Billy Wirasnik wrote:
>
>> Its a home brew rig for sure. Thrown together very last minute and sadly
>> the day before my Tetramic arrived. It was a Schoeps MK41 sitting 180 on
>> an
>> Audio Technica BP4027 MS shotgun.
>>
>
> That is not a double-MS setup. The double-MS needs identical capsules for
> front and back. When you combine a shotgun and a rear-facing supercardioid,
> the result is not an omni, but rather something very sad :)
> The point of B-format processing is to obtain an isotropic sound field.
> Due to the shape of your W, yours will be so-so in the front, completely
> unusable at the sides, and possibly excellent in the back. Not a good
> starting point.
>
> --
> Jörn Nettingsmeier
> Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
>
> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
> Tonmeister VDT
>
> http://stackingdwarves.net
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 

*Billy Wirasnik*

*Director | Slo.Media *

*Sound Designer | BillyWirasnik.com *

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Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-18 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier 

On 17.07.2016 10:08, Billy Wirasnik wrote:

Its a home brew rig for sure. Thrown together very last minute and sadly
the day before my Tetramic arrived. It was a Schoeps MK41 sitting 180 on an
Audio Technica BP4027 MS shotgun.


That is not a double-MS setup. The double-MS needs identical capsules 
for front and back. When you combine a shotgun and a rear-facing 
supercardioid, the result is not an omni, but rather something very sad :)
The point of B-format processing is to obtain an isotropic sound field. 
Due to the shape of your W, yours will be so-so in the front, completely 
unusable at the sides, and possibly excellent in the back. Not a good 
starting point.


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT

http://stackingdwarves.net

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Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-18 Thread Dave Hunt 

Hi,

The M Back may already be inverted relative to M Front, due to it  
pointing 180 degrees from M Front. You may have to play with this to  
get W and X right.


Ciao,

Dave Hunt



   1. Re: Double MS to B-Format (Courville, Daniel)

From: "Courville, Daniel" 
Date: 17 July 2016 17:20:39 BDT
To: "sursound@music.vt.edu" 
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format


@ Billy Wirasnik: You can try my DMS to B-Format converter, part of  
this suite of plug-ins http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/b2x.html


Basically, the recipe is M Front + M Back gives you the W, M Front  
- M Back gives the X and the S is the Y. There's some gain  
adjustments to be done on the resulting WXY, but DMS and WXY are  
equivalent.


In your case, there's also the extra step of converting to ambiX  
which can be done with the converter plug-in in this http:// 
www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015


- Daniel


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Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-17 Thread Courville, Daniel 
@ Billy Wirasnik: You can try my DMS to B-Format converter, part of this suite 
of plug-ins http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/b2x.html

Basically, the recipe is M Front + M Back gives you the W, M Front - M Back 
gives the X and the S is the Y. There's some gain adjustments to be done on the 
resulting WXY, but DMS and WXY are equivalent.

In your case, there's also the extra step of converting to ambiX which can be 
done with the converter plug-in in this 
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015

- Daniel

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Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-17 Thread Billy Wirasnik 
Its a home brew rig for sure. Thrown together very last minute and sadly
the day before my Tetramic arrived. It was a Schoeps MK41 sitting 180 on an
Audio Technica BP4027 MS shotgun.

I have the AmbiX encoder but wasn't sure what to do as the encoders were
either 2,4 or 8 channel inputs, not 3. I'll look into that again.

On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 4:37 PM, David Pickett  wrote:

> At 18:23 16-07-16, Billy Wirasnik wrote:
> >A few weeks ago we recorded a roving 100 person ensemble performing
> Inuksuit
> >using Theta's and my Double
> MS
> >system.
>
> I'm very interested to know what YOU mean by "double MS system".
>
> David
>
>
>
>  I'm now trying to format the audio in a way that will work with
> >Youtube Spatial Audio.
> >
> >Does anyone have experience taking Double MS recordings and encoding them
> >to horizontal B-format?
> >
> >--
> >
> >*Billy Wirasnik*
> >
> >*Director | Slo.Media *
> >
> >*Sound Designer | BillyWirasnik.com *
> >
> >845-417-8290
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> >here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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>



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*Director | Slo.Media *

*Sound Designer | BillyWirasnik.com *

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Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-16 Thread David Pickett 

At 18:23 16-07-16, Billy Wirasnik wrote:
>A few weeks ago we recorded a roving 100 person ensemble performing Inuksuit
>using Theta's and my Double MS
>system.

I'm very interested to know what YOU mean by "double MS system".

David



 I'm now trying to format the audio in a way that will work with
>Youtube Spatial Audio.
>
>Does anyone have experience taking Double MS recordings and encoding them
>to horizontal B-format?
>
>--
>
>*Billy Wirasnik*
>
>*Director | Slo.Media *
>
>*Sound Designer | BillyWirasnik.com *
>
>845-417-8290
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Re: [Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-16 Thread JJ Wiesler 
Yes. We've been using a double m/s rig in some of our work.

You can using AmbiX encoder or equivalent to place front L/R and back L/R.
Phase is really good. I did some testing walking in circles around the
array and the results were great.

I think one of the advantages is being able to use premium capsules. The
one I heard was with Schoepps. Also did one with an AKG414 and Josephsons.

Good option if you don't need and Z component.

JJ
On Saturday, July 16, 2016, Billy Wirasnik  wrote:

> A few weeks ago we recorded a roving 100 person ensemble performing
> Inuksuit
> using Theta's and my Double MS
> system. I'm now trying to format the audio in a way that will work with
> Youtube Spatial Audio.
>
> Does anyone have experience taking Double MS recordings and encoding them
> to horizontal B-format?
>
> --
>
> *Billy Wirasnik*
>
> *Director | Slo.Media *
>
> *Sound Designer | BillyWirasnik.com *
>
> 845-417-8290
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[Sursound] Double MS to B-Format

2016-07-16 Thread Billy Wirasnik 
A few weeks ago we recorded a roving 100 person ensemble performing Inuksuit
using Theta's and my Double MS
system. I'm now trying to format the audio in a way that will work with
Youtube Spatial Audio.

Does anyone have experience taking Double MS recordings and encoding them
to horizontal B-format?

-- 

*Billy Wirasnik*

*Director | Slo.Media *

*Sound Designer | BillyWirasnik.com *

845-417-8290
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