Re: [Sursound] MSG sphere beamforming sound

[Thomas Koch]

Hi Augustine,

heard the system in their demo-room in berlin. In this controlled environment, 
the described effect can be achieved. I’m also quite curious how this will 
scale to such a huge venue…

Best 
Thomas

> Am 07.07.2023 um 20:42 schrieb Jack Reynolds :
> 
> I’ve heard it a few times now, the beamforming is quite remarkable. 
> 
> J
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 7 Jul 2023, at 19:17, Augustine Leudar  wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone else bristling with skepticism? Some are claiming one seat can hear
>> one language, the adjacent seat a totally different language with no
>> "bleeding" anyone heard this? Id love it to be true but 
>> 
>> https://www.archpaper.com/2018/02/behold-msg-sphere-precision-sound-las-vegas/
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Sursound] MSG sphere beamforming sound

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 07:03:35PM +, Gareth Fry wrote:

> The beam forming is very powerful, but off course does obey the
> pesky laws of physics!

:-) I was involved six years or so ago in a similar project at my
then employer, the research center of a very big company.
The original project goals were defined by a manager who either
didn't know the wave equation, or at least failed to understand
its consequences. They were not happy when I made that remark. 

Even with a 2D array covering all the walls you can't control
the sound at each point in a 3D space, you just don't have enough
degrees of freedom. But people usually don't float in space,
they stay on the ground, so in practice the target area is 2D
as well. 

But the array has to be 2D, not just a line or a set of lines,
and placed higher than the target area so that each listener has
and unobstructed view of the entire array.

> Each module of an array has 96 amplifiers and drivers

That's more than our entire array. But we did achieve 25 or
more dB of separation for frequencies above 300 Hz for targets
that were 3 meters apart.

> Anyone else bristling with skepticism?

Not here. With more than a thousand channels in a well-designed
2D array a lot should be possible.

Ciao,

-- 
FA

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Re: [Sursound] MSG sphere beamforming sound

[Gareth Fry]

I have a Holoplot system at Lightroom Kings Cross in London.

The beam forming is very powerful, but off course does obey the pesky laws of 
physics!
You can set up an array of Holoplot cabinets to send a narrow beam of sound to 
a point on the floor 30m away, and another beam to a point on the floor 1m away 
from the other point on the floor. As you step between the beams you will hear 
about a 30dB drop of the audio from the beam you are stepping away from. How 
directional the beam is depends on the size of the Holoplot array, and the 
larger it is, the more directional the low frequencies can be, and so frequency 
range of the content also plays a factor in how directional you can be. In 
practical terms, it means you can be very directional with high pitched sounds, 
pretty directional with mid frequency sounds and not so directional with low 
frequency sounds. So you can’t send two different full-range pieces of music to 
two immediately adjacent seats, but you can for example send two different 
voices to two seats that are 1m apart. But if you are using them to cover 
larger audiences than 2 people(!), the precision of the beam forming becomes 
very useful in being able to target certain areas (the audience, or groups of 
the audience) and avoid others (reflective walls) to create a higher direct to 
reverberant ratio than you would typically expect with a line array type sound 
system. You can also to an extent send narrow beams of sound at reflective 
surfaces to create virtual speakers - again the size of the array and the freq 
range of the content affect the success of this approach.

Compared to other older directional speaker technologies which suffered from 
not being able to go very loud without distorting, or those that had an 
incredibly limited bandwidth, the Holoplots can go very loud and are full 
range. The technology is a big step forwards, Each module of an array has 96 
amplifiers and drivers so heat, cost and weight are factors to consider in 
their use. We have 2 x 4x2 arrays (1,624 amplifiers and the same number of loud 
speakers).

More here: 
https://www.cxnetwork.com.au/holoplot-x1-the-revolutionary-german-pa-in-london/

Best regards,
Gareth

Gareth Fry
Sound Designer

07973 352669 | gareth...@hotmail.com | www.garethfry.com
Gareth Fry Ltd | Registered in UK, No. 09430786 | VAT No. GB 994736753

On 7 Jul 2023, at 19:35, Jack Reynolds  wrote:

I’ve heard it a few times now, the beamforming is quite remarkable.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On 7 Jul 2023, at 19:17, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

Anyone else bristling with skepticism? Some are claiming one seat can hear
one language, the adjacent seat a totally different language with no
"bleeding" anyone heard this? Id love it to be true but 

https://www.archpaper.com/2018/02/behold-msg-sphere-precision-sound-las-vegas/



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Re: [Sursound] MSG sphere beamforming sound

[Augustine Leudar]

Apparently wavefield synthesis combined with "beamforming technology" with
164,000 loudspeakers
Audio bit at 4:51

https://www.archpaper.com/2018/02/behold-msg-sphere-precision-sound-las-vegas/

Marketing may have got carried away again?



https://www.archpaper.com/2018/02/behold-msg-sphere-precision-sound-las-vegas/

On Friday, 7 July 2023, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> Anyone else bristling with skepticism? Some are claiming one seat can hear
> one language, the adjacent seat a totally different language with no
> "bleeding" anyone heard this? Id love it to be true but 
>
> https://www.archpaper.com/2018/02/behold-msg-sphere-
> precision-sound-las-vegas/
>
>
>
> --
> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Sursound] MSG sphere beamforming sound

[Jack Reynolds]

I’ve heard it a few times now, the beamforming is quite remarkable. 

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On 7 Jul 2023, at 19:17, Augustine Leudar  wrote:
> 
> Anyone else bristling with skepticism? Some are claiming one seat can hear
> one language, the adjacent seat a totally different language with no
> "bleeding" anyone heard this? Id love it to be true but 
> 
> https://www.archpaper.com/2018/02/behold-msg-sphere-precision-sound-las-vegas/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com
> -- next part --
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[Sursound] MSG sphere beamforming sound

[Augustine Leudar]

Anyone else bristling with skepticism? Some are claiming one seat can hear
one language, the adjacent seat a totally different language with no
"bleeding" anyone heard this? Id love it to be true but 

https://www.archpaper.com/2018/02/behold-msg-sphere-precision-sound-las-vegas/



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