[biofuels-biz]
Hello everyone, Anyone producing biodiesel in economical quantity? Maybe we can set up an exchange for biodiesel made from different oil sources. Any reactions? Ken - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SRO and SVO,
I like that! Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Edward Beggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] SRO and SVO, Thanks, Steve... ...and I will beat Terry to the keyboard, and say that RVO is Recovered Vegetable Oil, I think? We make waste a passe term...turning it into a resource, like many other things once thought of as wastes that are now resource foundation of new industries. The list of terms and acronyms grows...just like the mailing list for the discussion group and interest in the subject in general! Ed Beggs - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] SRO and SVO, and WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Jan Surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:44 AM Subject: [biofuel] SRO and SVO, Thank you, I would like to thank you Ed Beggs, now: SRO = Straight Renewable Oil SVO = Straight Vegetable Oil greetings jan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
New York Times, OP-ED, June 4, 2001 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/opinion/04NERI.html The Mirage of a Growing Fuel Supply By EVAR D. NERING COTTSDALE, Ariz. - When I discussed the exponential function in the first-semester calculus classes that I taught, I invariably used consumption of a nonrenewable natural resource as an example. Since we are now engaged in a national debate about energy policy, it may be useful to talk about the mathematics involved in making a rational decision about resource use. In my classes, I described the following hypothetical situation. We have a 100-year supply of a resource, say oil - that is, the oil would last 100 years if it were consumed at its current rate. But the oil is consumed at a rate that grows by 5 percent each year. How long would it last under these circumstances? This is an easy calculation; the answer is about 36 years. Oh, but let's say we underestimated the supply, and we actually have a 1,000-year supply. At the same annual 5 percent growth rate in use, how long will this last? The answer is about 79 years. Then let us say we make a striking discovery of more oil yet - a bonanza - and we now have a 10,000-year supply. At our same rate of growing use, how long would it last? Answer: 125 years. Estimates vary for how long currently known oil reserves will last, though they are usually considerably less than 100 years. But the point of this analysis is that it really doesn't matter what the estimates are. There is no way that a supply-side attack on America's energy problem can work. The exponential function describes the behavior of any quantity whose rate of change is proportional to its size. Compound interest is the most commonly encountered example - it would produce exponential growth if the interest were calculated at a continuing rate. I have heard public statements that use exponential as though it describes a large or sudden increase. But exponential growth does not have to be large, and it is never sudden. Rather, it is inexorable. Calculations also show that if consumption of an energy resource is allowed to grow at a steady 5 percent annual rate, a full doubling of the available supply will not be as effective as reducing that growth rate by half - to 2.5 percent. Doubling the size of the oil reserve will add at most 14 years to the life expectancy of the resource if we continue to use it at the currently increasing rate, no matter how large it is currently. On the other hand, halving the growth of consumption will almost double the life expectancy of the supply, no matter what it is. This mathematical reality seems to have escaped the politicians pushing to solve our energy problem by simply increasing supply. Building more power plants and drilling for more oil is exactly the wrong thing to do, because it will encourage more use. If we want to avoid dire consequences, we need to find the political will to reduce the growth in energy consumption to zero - or even begin to consume less. I must emphasize that reducing the growth rate is not what most people are talking about now when they advocate conservation; the steps they recommend are just Band-Aids. If we increase the gas mileage of our automobiles and then drive more miles, for example, that will not reduce the growth rate. Reducing the growth of consumption means living closer to where we work or play. It means telecommuting. It means controlling population growth. It means shifting to renewable energy sources. It is not, perhaps, necessary to cut our use of oil, but it is essential that we cut the rate of increase at which we consume it. To do otherwise is to leave our descendants in an impoverished world. Evar D. Nering is professor emeritus of mathematics at Arizona State University. Evar D. Nering is professor emeritus of mathematics at Arizona State University. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fwd: [biofuel] Unsubscribe Me
--- Start of forwarded message --- To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Unsubscribe Me From: Carl Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Please unsubscribe me from your mailing list __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- End of forwarded message --- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SRO and SVO,
Thanks, Steve... ...and I will beat Terry to the keyboard, and say that RVO is Recovered Vegetable Oil, I think? We make waste a passe term...turning it into a resource, like many other things once thought of as wastes that are now resource foundation of new industries. The list of terms and acronyms grows...just like the mailing list for the discussion group and interest in the subject in general! Hmpphh. T' one's growth, t' other's decay, 'tis but the demons of confusion about their dastardly work amongst us. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Ed Beggs Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Carbohydrate Economy
Hello Hanns and all Thanks for an interesting and informative post. I guess the milk ferments via naturally present microorganisms (lacto bacteria?). Re David Etherington, the process might suit the very small scale, but the pricing certainly doesn't. I'm sure you're right that larger-scale equipment will be necessary, but I'm also sure you're right when you say we must use back yard processes as a stepping stone to larger operations. I'd say foundation stone actually. Disregarding Etherington, the Philippines (and elsewhere) traditional method should be upscaled so small village coops can use it to supply local fuel needs and, smaller still, so individual farmers can use it for on-farm fuel needs. It's worth noting that the Carbohydrate Economy website is a project of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. The Carbohydrate Economy is not just a matter of using different feedstocks, it's a different economy, grown, like the feedstocks, from the ground up. It should be possible to distill the fermented milk to produce ethanol and use it to convert a proportion of the oil to biodiesel, for a truly rational system. If it can be fermented, then it must be worth distilling it (mustn't it?). By the way, I have some upcoming information on making palm and coconut esters that should be of great interest. It'll take a couple of weeks, but this is an excellent source. If your neighbours far and wide can get their neglected coconut groves up to scratch via local energy initiatives such as you envisage (it's not hard to make a sad tree happy, and you don't need to buy anything), there should be a good market in the frozen north for any excesses as a biodiesel winteriser rather than the nasties currently being used. Thanks for those good numbers, Harry. Strange that the good stuff for the cold grows where it never gets cold. Second by the way, the email address for the Mt. Banahaw Tropical Herbs site is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Hello Keith, Harry, Steve, Marc, Ken et al, I quote this from the following web site:- QUOTE The method we use at Mt. Banahaw Tropical Herbs in the Philippines is fermentation. The coconut milk expressed from the freshly harvested coconuts is fermented for approximately 48 hours. During this time, the water separates from the oil. The oil is then slightly heated for a short time to remove moisture, and filtered. The result is a clear coconut oil that retains the distinct odour and taste of coconuts. This is a traditional method of coconut oil extraction that has been used in the Philippines for hundreds of years. Our laboratory tests show that this is a very high quality coconut oil, with the lauric acid content being over 53%. This oil is not mass produced, but made by hand just as it has been done for hundreds of years. UNQUOTE http://coconut-info.com/what_is_virgin_coconut_oil.htm Being a lay man (no pun intended) it would seem to me that just about any bio chemist should be able to figure out how this is done. Any one with ideas? Here is another quote from an email by David Surya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):- QUOTE 2. about fermentation of coconut, I heard here in Indonesia, they are using a kind of crab that is called yuyu. this fermentation methode can increases the yield of coconut oil until 0.15 - 0.2 litre/coconut from usual range 0.12 - 0.17 litre/coconut UNQUOTE Have sent a message to David asking for more details but as yet no reply. With regard to the paper by Dan Etherington. This process is designed for very small scale village producers. That is fine, but if the production of bio diesel and/or high quality coconut oil is to make any real difference to the current account balance of any pacific nation, as well as make a noticeable environmental impact, the process has to be capable of being scaled up so that tons not liters of oil per day can be produced. I'm sure this can be done using screw presses and/or roller mills and conveyor belt dryers in a continuous process. Or perhaps fermentation could be used instead of mechanical expulsion. Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the coconut is still green, the juice (I refuse to call it milk) contains much sugar. What happens to this sugar as the nut matures and the endosperm thickens and hardens? Does it get converted to fat? Or is enough still present that it can be fermented to produce ethanol? Finally, as I mentioned in a previous message, can ethanol be derived from veggie oil (perhaps through intermediate trans esterification) just like gasoline is derived from crude fossil oil? These are questions I'm sure bio chemists and/or chemical engineers might be able to answer. Back yard bio fuel production by all means. I'm 100% for it. But if the pacific nations with their abundant natural vegetation, coconuts and oil palm are to play a meaningful part in the emerging carbohydrate
[biofuel] Malaysia to promote gas-powered cars in Thailand
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=11047 Planet Ark Malaysia to promote gas-powered cars in Thailand MALAYSIA: June 4, 2001 KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia's state oil company, Petronas , said on Friday it would introduce its natural gas-powered Enviro 2000 cars to Thailand to promote the use of clean and cheap fuel. Petronas said it had signed a three-year pact with Petroleum Authority of Thailand (PTT) to introduce the five-seat cars, designed by Petronas and introduced in Malaysia in 1998. Petronas did not say when it would launch the vehicles in Thailand, but said five would be tested on Bangkok roads for six months. In Kuala Lumper, there are already nearly 4,000 gas-powered cars, including 1,000 Enviro 2000s. Petronas said it would also help PTT develop regulations and safety standards for gas-powered cars and refuelling stations. PTT started a pilot project to promote the use of natural gas for taxis in Thailand last year. Under the project, 100 taxis were converted to run on bi-fuel system which operates on either natural gas or petrol. Another 500 taxis will be converted to bi-fuel systems by October. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
All food for thought About what ought... But is not. Ed - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a question. Straight Renewable Oil = SRO Why I use the term: - it is not always vegetable oil. Let's leave the door open for animal fats, algae , etc., and start to move away from the smells like french fries - groovy, huh? type news stories. - it IS renewable, and the adoption and use of the term and acronym can help to introduce and reinforce the concept that this fuel, being renewable on an annual basis therefore stands in stark contrast to fossil fuels (including petrodiesel...and most of the natural gas that is produced at this time). Keith used to disagree with me on this term being used and thought it would confuse folks and the media, but I am persistent. It is a term I ease into use, and explain, when talking to reporters, and they do still use vegetable most times, but that's ok, the discussion on it gets the idea out there at least. Keith still disagrees with you, Ed. And is a reporter and has been a newspaper editor, and thinks there's a great deal of sense in the fact that virtually all newspapers restrict the use of acronyms and resist new ones. This subject came up on the list when I was trying for something better than the usual WVO - waste vegetable oil - because, as Ed says, it isn't only vegetable and it isn't only oil. IMHO we never did get anything better, and still labour along with not only WVO and SVO but now also SRO, and I think Ed has some others he likes too. Then there's RME, REE, HySEE, and heaven knows what else. And we complain when people start calling all sorts of stuff biodiesel. I also don't agree that it smells like French fries is something to move away from. It works well, catches a lot. The waste cooking oil as diesel fuel angle is a good one already, it catches the imagination. Everyone's choked on stinking diesel fumes - that WVO (!!) biodiesel smells like you can eat it (you can) is catchy and lively, it accomplishes a lot. That picture of the dog with its nose stuck up a BD Land Rover's exhaust pipe is good, so is the yarn about the doubts Yellowstone Park rangers had about using biodiesel that the smell would attract bears. It'll stick in the mind better than saying it's clean-burning and renewable, and is a good platform for then saying that. Anyways, to each his own, eh? A great day to you too Ed. :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
All food for thought About what ought... But is not. Too many acronyms ought not but is It's not just food for thought, we're both of us doing this stuff. And both getting somewhere - why I said to each his own. I would hate to see all our diverse freelance efforts regimented in any way. It's all solar energy - but so are fossil fuels, and solar energy means PVs to most people, more confusion. It's all green-leaf energy - which excludes fossil fuels, but not animals: even if they're carnivores, no matter where they are in the food chain, they're all part of the same current cycle of green-leaf energy. Green-leaf fuels. Hm... Needs work. Some other time... Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Ed - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a question. Straight Renewable Oil = SRO Why I use the term: - it is not always vegetable oil. Let's leave the door open for animal fats, algae , etc., and start to move away from the smells like french fries - groovy, huh? type news stories. - it IS renewable, and the adoption and use of the term and acronym can help to introduce and reinforce the concept that this fuel, being renewable on an annual basis therefore stands in stark contrast to fossil fuels (including petrodiesel...and most of the natural gas that is produced at this time). Keith used to disagree with me on this term being used and thought it would confuse folks and the media, but I am persistent. It is a term I ease into use, and explain, when talking to reporters, and they do still use vegetable most times, but that's ok, the discussion on it gets the idea out there at least. Keith still disagrees with you, Ed. And is a reporter and has been a newspaper editor, and thinks there's a great deal of sense in the fact that virtually all newspapers restrict the use of acronyms and resist new ones. This subject came up on the list when I was trying for something better than the usual WVO - waste vegetable oil - because, as Ed says, it isn't only vegetable and it isn't only oil. IMHO we never did get anything better, and still labour along with not only WVO and SVO but now also SRO, and I think Ed has some others he likes too. Then there's RME, REE, HySEE, and heaven knows what else. And we complain when people start calling all sorts of stuff biodiesel. I also don't agree that it smells like French fries is something to move away from. It works well, catches a lot. The waste cooking oil as diesel fuel angle is a good one already, it catches the imagination. Everyone's choked on stinking diesel fumes - that WVO (!!) biodiesel smells like you can eat it (you can) is catchy and lively, it accomplishes a lot. That picture of the dog with its nose stuck up a BD Land Rover's exhaust pipe is good, so is the yarn about the doubts Yellowstone Park rangers had about using biodiesel that the smell would attract bears. It'll stick in the mind better than saying it's clean-burning and renewable, and is a good platform for then saying that. Anyways, to each his own, eh? A great day to you too Ed. :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
Re: SVO, SRO, etc. One thing I was taught in writing class long, long ago -- if you use an acronym, you *ALWAY definitely *MUST* write out the whole phrase along with it in the very beginning of the piece, and maybe more than once. Even very, very common terms like DNR. We all know what DNR is here in the US at least, right? Every state has one -- Dept. of Natural Resources -- but you'd be amazed at how many people wouldn't know what the acronym meant. And I'll admit that many of the acronyms I've seen here are quite mysterious. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
What's an MLIS? :-) Ok, enough of this fun... Ed - And I'll admit that many of the acronyms I've seen here are quite mysterious. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
Do Not Resuscitate? grin Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a question. Re: SVO, SRO, etc. One thing I was taught in writing class long, long ago -- if you use an acronym, you *ALWAY definitely *MUST* write out the whole phrase along with it in the very beginning of the piece, and maybe more than once. Even very, very common terms like DNR. We all know what DNR is here in the US at least, right? Every state has one -- Dept. of Natural Resources -- but you'd be amazed at how many people wouldn't know what the acronym meant. And I'll admit that many of the acronyms I've seen here are quite mysterious. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] U of T research commercialization corp.
Burkhard Wegner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.bioxcorp.com/ See archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
James, Should work well if you can get the picture and its a decent one. B.r., David - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a question. I wonder if there's any possibility of getting hold of the picture of the dog sticking it's nose up a bd Land Rover exhaust pipe. James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
Re: SVO, SRO, etc. One thing I was taught in writing... And I'll admit that many of the acronyms I've seen here are quite mysterious. HERE HERE ! James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
I wonder if there's any possibility of getting hold of the picture of the dog sticking it's nose up a bd Land Rover exhaust pipe. James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Washing BD
On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Paul Gobert wrote: - Original Message - From: James Burke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Paul, I read your plans for the bubble wash alternative. I hope I'm wrong, but the windshield washer pump may overheat if run continuously. Jim, Agree with you there Jim, as a windscreen washer pump they are probably overrun, ie fed more voltage than they would be for continuous running.This is only a test rig. The pump is a sturdy unit from a pug 504, good solid electrics. It was powered from a variable power supply. Draw was from neck of bottle( bottle inverted)delivery to flat end of bottle. Origional base cut off perforated and reinserted upside down to form cup to receive delivery. Bottle was 1.25L and 5 volts to the motor gave optimum flow rate. Increased voltage gave a higher flow rate which produced a buildup of oil coated water globules extending into the neck of the bottle. Reducing the flow rate allowed these globules to break up at a higher level. Best results were obtained when the bottle was full so that the droplets of wash water entered the oil layer with very little fall/force. On large scale I may use a diffuser which will float on the BD layer. Some emulsification still occured. This could have been due to soap or glycerine in the raw BD. Either this will have to be regarded as waste or I will reduce the NaOH to just below optimum to ensure that no soap builds up. Indications are that the Raw BD should be washed as soon as possible after transesterification/glycerine removal. In line with my plan to reduce input of time/energy/equipment for BD production I intend to draw off the glycerine/soap as soon as it settles, something which I haven,t been able to try in my 500ml beaker test batches. Regards, Paul Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
Got all the chemicals and a bucket of pure McDonald's waste veg oil. Will be going thru the learning curve soon. The methanol was real expensive, US$35 per 5gal drum. Anyone got the price for methanol in bulk and the recovery rate of the home made distiller. Figured that the bulk price and methanol recovery would made me decide whether it can be commercialised. Gerry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
that 5 gallons of methanol will make 25 gallons of biodiesel. you really do need a cheaper source of methanol. race tracks will sell it at under $2 / gallon in 55 gallon drums. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a question. Got all the chemicals and a bucket of pure McDonald's waste veg oil. Will be going thru the learning curve soon. The methanol was real expensive, US$35 per 5gal drum. Anyone got the price for methanol in bulk and the recovery rate of the home made distiller. Figured that the bulk price and methanol recovery would made me decide whether it can be commercialised. Gerry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Horse Manure
Hi, ssure I can convert this into energy,however I would need some more information to make an educated judgement - Original Message - From: Wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 4:16 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Horse Manure Message: 21 Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 06:09:36 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Horse Manure I have approximately 160,000 cubic yard of horse manure in New Mexico. Does anyone know of someone who might be interested in it to convert into fuel? Carl That's 80,000 tons of horseshit! How on earth did you manage to accumulate so much? What condition is it in? You might get some more inquiries from people involved with horses. I have put a couple of paragraphs about biodiesel on my horse site: http://horses-etc.com ... and there was a post yesterday about using waste from wood processing so maybe the wood shavings used for stalls together with the manure could be used ... that would be wonderful. :)) and yes to another post ... clean veggie oil can certainly be used. In those same two paragraphs see the link for Southern States Power Company ... they will be opening a large production plant for biodiesel from soybeans. Wendy (This is the first time I have posted. I just started learning about biodiesel a week or so ago). -- http://horses-etc.comhttp://the2rs.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fw: German rapeseed oil buyers seek alternatives
- Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower,alt.energy.renewable,alt.global-warming,sci.energy Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:25 PM Subject: German rapeseed oil buyers seek alternatives http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm German rapeseed oil buyers seek alternatives -- GERMANY: June 4, 2001 HAMBURG - High premiums for rapeseed oil against soyoil may prompt the food and biodiesel industry to seek alternatives, traders and analysts said on Friday. The margarine industry is already looking at the feasibility of replacing rapeseed oil with other vegetable oils, Karl-Joseph Gross, analyst at oil mills association VDO, said. He added that sunflower oil was too expensive to be considered as an alternative, leaving soyoil and palm oil as the main options. Rapeseed oil has been trading at an unusually hefty premium against soyoil. Fob Rotterdam rapeseed oil prices stood at 438 euros per tonne on Thursday for August/October delivery, while soyoil was quoted at 355 euros. Demand was being lifted by the biodiesel industry and worries in Europe about genetically modified soybeans. During the past week German rapeseed prices also received support from a strong dollar, although trading in the old crop was minimal while new crop turnover was limited by the uncertain weather outlook in Germany and Australia. There is quite a lot of uncertainty in the market regarding the domestic crop outlook, but even more so about the Australian canola crop, one trader said. That was reflected in the gap between sellers' and buyers' price ideas, which remained five to 10 marks apart, he added. Cif Hamburg rapeseed for July/Aug was last quoted at 432.50 marks ($187.7) per tonne against 430 marks a week ago. Oct/Dec was unchanged at 450. Australian farmers were abandoning canola because of dry weather. The Canola Association of Australia said this week the crop might be reduced to 1.3 to 1.4 million tonnes, compared with last week's forecast of 1.7 million tonnes. Gross said the major question was whether Germany would increase rapeseed imports or reduce exports of rapeseed oil and meal. Rapeseed oil exports have risen to 900,000 tonnes (a year) from 600,000 tonnes three years ago, he said. The first and most realistic alternative would be to reduce exports. Germany is a net importer of rapeseed and a net exporter of meal and oil, with rapeseed production of almost 3.6 million tonnes last year and consumption of around 4.3 million. Story by Denes Albert REUTERS NEWS SERVICE -- Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Mothers milk. No matter how you say it to decrease rate of increase and ultimately the rate of usage, you need to make it more expensive in terms of disposable income of the major user groups. This has the effect of making fuel unavailable to the poor while increasing the flow on costs of most (all?) production including food. Only those NGO's that are comfortable with a raised poverty level (minimum life sustaining income) would attempt to reduce supply or increase cost of fuels without poverty alleviation as a prerequisite. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
I wonder if there's any possibility of getting hold of the picture of the dog sticking it's nose up a bd Land Rover exhaust pipe. James It's here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
Hi Gerry, That sounds like you are paying too much for the methanol. I don`t know where you are located, but if you`re near a large city, try the yellow pages under Chemicals. You should be able to find a supplier that will give you a decent price. Here in Atlanta,Ga. I can buy a 55gal. drum for $2.75 a gallon and that includes delivery, or you can pickup smaller amounts for the same price. Congrats on getting started. David Cruse - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] a question. Got all the chemicals and a bucket of pure McDonald's waste veg oil. Will be going thru the learning curve soon. The methanol was real expensive, US$35 per 5gal drum. Anyone got the price for methanol in bulk and the recovery rate of the home made distiller. Figured that the bulk price and methanol recovery would made me decide whether it can be commercialised. Gerry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
Re: SVO, SRO, etc. One thing I was taught in writing class long, long ago -- if you use an acronym, you *ALWAY definitely *MUST* write out the whole phrase along with it in the very beginning of the piece, and maybe more than once. Even very, very common terms like DNR. We all know what DNR is here in the US at least, right? Every state has one -- Dept. of Natural Resources -- but you'd be amazed at how many people wouldn't know what the acronym meant. And I'll admit that many of the acronyms I've seen here are quite mysterious. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's universal newspaper style too - first spell it out in full, followed by the acronym in brackets, but preferably avoid the acronym altogether. These we use here would mostly end up on the list of banned acronyms, or at least never make it to the list of acceptable ones. It's about being comprehensible - we need to apply a modicum of dejargonalisationalism to our acronyms, IMHO. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a question.....
I wonder if there's any possibility of getting hold of the picture of the dog sticking it's nose up a bd Land Rover exhaust pipe. James It's here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html And there's a picture of someone drinking bioidiesel here (scroll down to Good enough to drink): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_hk.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
ronald miller sr wrote: Hi to all, Does anyone out there know the process for removing water from ethanol using 3A zeolite. I know this is the material used by industry to do this but I'd like to know the process. As I understand it this will remove all the water content of distilled ethanol. Any remarks? Thanks, Ron Miller I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Carbohydrate Economy
Hanns, The amount of liquid in the coconut deminishes as time goes by. Some of it becomes part of the meat which will be the copra. But there is still some liquid in a mature coconut. Processes oil by hand yields a very small amount of oil, around 20 to 25 % if you are lucky(tried this in laboratory class in college). The method used in industry is solvent extraction(cyclohexanone), here you can get an economical yield. The problem here in the Philippines is not a question of natural resources but more of politics. People want power so they can control somebody else so they can stay in power. Vicious cycle. My prayers to the hostages and their families. As to changing to a carbohydrate economy. Hopefully we can make a small difference in a years time. Making ethanol et al from veggie oils... hmmm now thats interesting. If they can extract diesel from the ends(usually tar and asphalt) using vaccum distillation, cracking and reforming of crude why not make it from veggie oils. Anyone want to collaborate on this? Best Regards to all Ken At 09:53 PM 6/4/01 +1000, you wrote: Hello Keith, Harry, Steve, Marc, Ken et al, I quote this from the following web site:- QUOTE The method we use at Mt. Banahaw Tropical Herbs in the Philippines is fermentation. The coconut milk expressed from the freshly harvested coconuts is fermented for approximately 48 hours. During this time, the water separates from the oil. The oil is then slightly heated for a short time to remove moisture, and filtered. The result is a clear coconut oil that retains the distinct odour and taste of coconuts. This is a traditional method of coconut oil extraction that has been used in the Philippines for hundreds of years. Our laboratory tests show that this is a very high quality coconut oil, with the lauric acid content being over 53%. This oil is not mass produced, but made by hand just as it has been done for hundreds of years. UNQUOTE http://coconut-info.com/what_is_virgin_coconut_oil.htm Being a lay man (no pun intended) it would seem to me that just about any bio chemist should be able to figure out how this is done. Any one with ideas? Here is another quote from an email by David Surya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):- QUOTE 2. about fermentation of coconut, I heard here in Indonesia, they are using a kind of crab that is called yuyu. this fermentation methode can increases the yield of coconut oil until 0.15 - 0.2 litre/coconut from usual range 0.12 - 0.17 litre/coconut UNQUOTE Have sent a message to David asking for more details but as yet no reply. With regard to the paper by Dan Etherington. This process is designed for very small scale village producers. That is fine, but if the production of bio diesel and/or high quality coconut oil is to make any real difference to the current account balance of any pacific nation, as well as make a noticeable environmental impact, the process has to be capable of being scaled up so that tons not liters of oil per day can be produced. I'm sure this can be done using screw presses and/or roller mills and conveyor belt dryers in a continuous process. Or perhaps fermentation could be used instead of mechanical expulsion. Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the coconut is still green, the juice (I refuse to call it milk) contains much sugar. What happens to this sugar as the nut matures and the endosperm thickens and hardens? Does it get converted to fat? Or is enough still present that it can be fermented to produce ethanol? Finally, as I mentioned in a previous message, can ethanol be derived from veggie oil (perhaps through intermediate trans esterification) just like gasoline is derived from crude fossil oil? These are questions I'm sure bio chemists and/or chemical engineers might be able to answer. Back yard bio fuel production by all means. I'm 100% for it. But if the pacific nations with their abundant natural vegetation, coconuts and oil palm are to play a meaningful part in the emerging carbohydrate economy (as they should, considering their resources), then we must use back yard processes as a stepping stone and look further towards large scale production involving perhaps co-operatives, community organisations, local, provincial and national governments as well as private enterprise. I think that through a combination of these biological and social resources it is possible to begin slowing down the cultural inertia of the hydrocarbon economy and shift towards its carbohydrate counterpart. What better place to do this than the pacific nations with their current almost total dependence fossil fuels. Any one with some ideas? Or is there someone to shoot me down in flames? All comers welcome;-) Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
We take the value of something on the short term basis of its supply and demand. The value is relative and can change depending on how you look at it. When everyone wants gas, price goes up. When we don't want it, it goes down. We do not take into account the long term value of a resource. Is it renewable? Can we get more when we use it up? We should view our earth as a spacecraft with limited resources for a growing crew. Digging for crude is like hunting for bisson. Man learned to farm and aquaculture to sustain his food needs and we should do the same with our energy needs. Grow it instead of hunting for it. Ken At 10:00 AM 6/4/01 -0400, you wrote: New York Times, OP-ED, June 4, 2001 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/opinion/04NERI.html The Mirage of a Growing Fuel Supply By EVAR D. NERING COTTSDALE, Ariz. - When I discussed the exponential function in the first-semester calculus classes that I taught, I invariably used consumption of a nonrenewable natural resource as an example. Since we are now engaged in a national debate about energy policy, it may be useful to talk about the mathematics involved in making a rational decision about resource use. In my classes, I described the following hypothetical situation. We have a 100-year supply of a resource, say oil - that is, the oil would last 100 years if it were consumed at its current rate. But the oil is consumed at a rate that grows by 5 percent each year. How long would it last under these circumstances? This is an easy calculation; the answer is about 36 years. Oh, but let's say we underestimated the supply, and we actually have a 1,000-year supply. At the same annual 5 percent growth rate in use, how long will this last? The answer is about 79 years. Then let us say we make a striking discovery of more oil yet - a bonanza - and we now have a 10,000-year supply. At our same rate of growing use, how long would it last? Answer: 125 years. Estimates vary for how long currently known oil reserves will last, though they are usually considerably less than 100 years. But the point of this analysis is that it really doesn't matter what the estimates are. There is no way that a supply-side attack on America's energy problem can work. The exponential function describes the behavior of any quantity whose rate of change is proportional to its size. Compound interest is the most commonly encountered example - it would produce exponential growth if the interest were calculated at a continuing rate. I have heard public statements that use exponential as though it describes a large or sudden increase. But exponential growth does not have to be large, and it is never sudden. Rather, it is inexorable. Calculations also show that if consumption of an energy resource is allowed to grow at a steady 5 percent annual rate, a full doubling of the available supply will not be as effective as reducing that growth rate by half - to 2.5 percent. Doubling the size of the oil reserve will add at most 14 years to the life expectancy of the resource if we continue to use it at the currently increasing rate, no matter how large it is currently. On the other hand, halving the growth of consumption will almost double the life expectancy of the supply, no matter what it is. This mathematical reality seems to have escaped the politicians pushing to solve our energy problem by simply increasing supply. Building more power plants and drilling for more oil is exactly the wrong thing to do, because it will encourage more use. If we want to avoid dire consequences, we need to find the political will to reduce the growth in energy consumption to zero - or even begin to consume less. I must emphasize that reducing the growth rate is not what most people are talking about now when they advocate conservation; the steps they recommend are just Band-Aids. If we increase the gas mileage of our automobiles and then drive more miles, for example, that will not reduce the growth rate. Reducing the growth of consumption means living closer to where we work or play. It means telecommuting. It means controlling population growth. It means shifting to renewable energy sources. It is not, perhaps, necessary to cut our use of oil, but it is essential that we cut the rate of increase at which we consume it. To do otherwise is to leave our descendants in an impoverished world. Evar D. Nering is professor emeritus of mathematics at Arizona State University. Evar D. Nering is professor emeritus of mathematics at Arizona State University. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
[biofuel] unsubscribe
Take me off this bullshit list now. I cant put up with 200 + emails a day about something I don't give a shit about. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] unsubscribe
Take me off this bullshit list now. I cant put up with 200 + emails a day about something I don't give a shit about. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Methanol Suppliers was Re: [biofuel] a question.....
that 5 gallons of methanol will make 25 gallons of biodiesel. you really do need a cheaper source of methanol. race tracks will sell it at under $2 / gallon in 55 gallon drums. Any bulk fuel distributor will be able to acquire 55 gallon drums of methanol, if not already on hand. Also, any distributor of propane will be able to point you to a methanol source, as methanol is added to the bulk propane tanks as a drying agent. (The propane isn't really dried, as the methanol/water remains mixed with the propane when sold.) Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] unsubscribe
Nobody can take you off, you have to do it yourself, oh clueless one, the same way you got on. And the instructions are included with every message. Jon Stoltz wrote: Take me off this bullshit list now. I cant put up with 200 + emails a day about something I don't give a shit about. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Rethinking economy of scale
Dear listmates, There has been traffic on both lists about the need to scale up production of biofuels to economical levels, and that has triggered much thinking on my part. Until now I, too, had been concentrating on industrial scale processes - admittedly still not on a very large industrial scale, because the logistics of coconut-based industry here limit plant size - feeling that smaller scale processing would be uneconomical. The recent traffic forced me to rethink my position. In thanks, I would like to share the result of my cogitations. When a person with surplus wealth considers his investment options, he has a wide range of choices. His surplus is cash, or convertible to cash, and therefore highly mobile. For him, ROI is the preponderant criterion. When a farmer with little cash and growing cash expenses considers investing his time and effort, the criteria are fundamentally different. His labor is not readily convertible to cash - that's why he's poor! - so his best bet is usually to use labor to reduce cash expenditures, e.g. for fuel. If he is growing the usual crops - banana and coconut, he is fortunate in being labor rich, as little labor is required to cultivate these crops most of the year. Thus he has time, and with a little scrounged equipment and a lot of effort he can make small quantities of high-grade fuel. An economic analysis written from the point of view of somebody investing cash to get cash would prove that this activity is uneconomical, but economics is the science of human action (Ludwig von Mises' phrase), and different humans have different needs and resources. If our hypothetical farmer can save cash by investing labor, that is profit for him regardless of what hypothetical cash value an analyst might set on his labor. To put numbers to it, if a farmer can get diesel fuel currently costing 15 pesos per liter at the pump with a CASH outlay smaller than 15 pesos per liter, it is a winning proposition for him. I haven't got prices for methanol yet, so I don't know whether that question has a positive answer for true (transesterified) biodiesel, but if the pseudo-biodiesel that consists of a blend of kerosene and coconut oil is considered the answer is unmistakeably YES. Kero costs less at the pump here than diesel, and when blended 20:1 with zero-CASH-cost coconut oil from the farm the cash saving is considerable. Even a sharp rise in kero cost will not change this result because the weighting factor is 5%. Furthermore, the effect on this poor debtor nation's economy can be considerable, regardless of the scale of individual efforts. Filipinos are very quick to emulate something that works, and a few liters a day, multiplied by hundreds of thousands - eventually of farmers, comes to a very large reduction in petroleum purchases on the international spot market - a very desirable result. What is more, a small change in balance-of-payments can have a very strong cascade effect on the domestic economy, as cash saved is invested in local manufactures. It is essentially that process that changed the USA from a primarily agrarian nation into an industrial superpower in two generations! Now the question is: how to make this feasible? There must be standard methods, easily implemented at small scale, for refining coconut oil and/or biodiesel to a standard that is compatible with existing equipment, and there must be standard tests, easily and quickly carried out, for verifying that this has been accomplished. I would like to challenge interested listers to do as I do, tabulating the key acceptability criteria and searching for cheap and reliable methods for determining a sample's conformity to those criteria. Viscosity I think is easy. Water content, free acids and alkalis, etc. may require considerable thought and experiment - or has this already been worked out? Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil
Hanns Wetzel wrote: Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the coconut is still green, the juice (I refuse to call it milk) contains much sugar. Do not get coconut water or juice confused with milk. The milk is expressed from the grated meat and contains oil, while the water simply pours out when the nut is opened. The water is an excellent beverage - refreshing and restorative. When I climb to inspect my local Rotary Club's reforestation project on Mount Agad-Agad, I drink one or two nuts' worth at the top to get the oomph to get back down! I have eaten an excellent sherbet in Guadeloupe that was made from it, though I can't find it here. It can also be used to make vinegar, and coco vinegar is generally used here (wine vinegar is imported, expensive and essentially a gourmet item). Presumably, if acetic fermentation is possible, then alcoholic fermentation is, too. Must get some buko juice and yeast and find out... What happens to this sugar as the nut matures and the endosperm thickens and hardens? Does it get converted to fat? Or is enough still present that it can be fermented to produce ethanol? Good question. Easily settled, too. I have access to both mature (lov) and young (buko) coconuts here. Yeast should not be hard to find, if I'm willing to settle for bread yeast rather than brewer's yeast. Time for a comparison test after I finish with the June issue of the magazine... Finally, as I mentioned in a previous message, can ethanol be derived from veggie oil (perhaps through intermediate trans esterification) just like gasoline is derived from crude fossil oil? The chemistry of that doesn't work out too well. You can get glycerol (a trihydroxy alcohol) from the oil by hydrolysis (such as occurs in soap manufacture), and the fatty acids can be converted to fatty alcohols, but these will be higher alcohols, not ethanol. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Ken! Whether you dig it,grow it or catch it as sunlight. If there is an exponential increase in the rate of use of energy it would need to come from an infinite source at a potentially infinite rate, to be sustainable. There is an absolute limit to Cultivatable land, one we reached at least 30 years ago. The reason Governments even notice concerns about climate change is that it may mean less land is suitable for cultivation, at least on a national basis. We NEED to take the exponential out of first world consumer patterns. We NEED to use what we know about human population dynamics to take the exponential out of population growth. I might just stop about there, I'm starting to preach again - at least if you get to hear me do the passion bit on the rostrum it can be entertaining. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil
As I recall I used to use coconut juice as an enzyme source for plant tissue culture when I was mericloning rare plants. The nutritional value is probably what keeps the populations as healthy as they are.-Drink it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rethinking economy of scale
Excellent assessment! Works for First world pensioners too. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Horse Manure
Hi Martin Hi,sure I can convert this into energy,however I would need some more information to make an educated judgement You could try running a zig zag copper pipe through it, pass water through the pipe, which should warm it up. james Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
When you start to grow it. The real cost of a sustainable energy source is taken into account. If we continue to look for cheap, free crude oil which costs only the exploration and development cost plus profit. This is not sustainable. It does not reflect the real cost of the resource. Cost will check demand just like the Fed use interest rates to spur or stop economic growth. This non-renewable resource has no cost, its price less. ken At 04:37 PM 6/5/01 +1000, you wrote: Ken! Whether you dig it,grow it or catch it as sunlight. If there is an exponential increase in the rate of use of energy it would need to come from an infinite source at a potentially infinite rate, to be sustainable. There is an absolute limit to Cultivatable land, one we reached at least 30 years ago. The reason Governments even notice concerns about climate change is that it may mean less land is suitable for cultivation, at least on a national basis. We NEED to take the exponential out of first world consumer patterns. We NEED to use what we know about human population dynamics to take the exponential out of population growth. I might just stop about there, I'm starting to preach again - at least if you get to hear me do the passion bit on the rostrum it can be entertaining. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rethinking economy of scale
Bravo Marc! And thankyou! A couple of things to add. Biodiesel may or may not be feasible at the individual small-peasant level, but it will be feasible at the next scale - a small-farmers' coop, perhaps. We need to know something about using biodiesel instead of the kero in the coco-kero mix. I'm sure that'll work, then you'll have 100% substitution. The methanol problem can be solved by using ethanol from local sources - very interested to hear what you find with fermenting coconut water. I'd predict there's a way of producing usable amounts of ethanol from local sources. Then we need good small-scale methods of dehydrating it, and fail-safe methods for ethyl esters from coconut oil. The quality control issue is not a big problem I think. We have a number of good methods already. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Dear listmates, There has been traffic on both lists about the need to scale up production of biofuels to economical levels, and that has triggered much thinking on my part. Until now I, too, had been concentrating on industrial scale processes - admittedly still not on a very large industrial scale, because the logistics of coconut-based industry here limit plant size - feeling that smaller scale processing would be uneconomical. The recent traffic forced me to rethink my position. In thanks, I would like to share the result of my cogitations. When a person with surplus wealth considers his investment options, he has a wide range of choices. His surplus is cash, or convertible to cash, and therefore highly mobile. For him, ROI is the preponderant criterion. When a farmer with little cash and growing cash expenses considers investing his time and effort, the criteria are fundamentally different. His labor is not readily convertible to cash - that's why he's poor! - so his best bet is usually to use labor to reduce cash expenditures, e.g. for fuel. If he is growing the usual crops - banana and coconut, he is fortunate in being labor rich, as little labor is required to cultivate these crops most of the year. Thus he has time, and with a little scrounged equipment and a lot of effort he can make small quantities of high-grade fuel. An economic analysis written from the point of view of somebody investing cash to get cash would prove that this activity is uneconomical, but economics is the science of human action (Ludwig von Mises' phrase), and different humans have different needs and resources. If our hypothetical farmer can save cash by investing labor, that is profit for him regardless of what hypothetical cash value an analyst might set on his labor. To put numbers to it, if a farmer can get diesel fuel currently costing 15 pesos per liter at the pump with a CASH outlay smaller than 15 pesos per liter, it is a winning proposition for him. I haven't got prices for methanol yet, so I don't know whether that question has a positive answer for true (transesterified) biodiesel, but if the pseudo-biodiesel that consists of a blend of kerosene and coconut oil is considered the answer is unmistakeably YES. Kero costs less at the pump here than diesel, and when blended 20:1 with zero-CASH-cost coconut oil from the farm the cash saving is considerable. Even a sharp rise in kero cost will not change this result because the weighting factor is 5%. Furthermore, the effect on this poor debtor nation's economy can be considerable, regardless of the scale of individual efforts. Filipinos are very quick to emulate something that works, and a few liters a day, multiplied by hundreds of thousands - eventually of farmers, comes to a very large reduction in petroleum purchases on the international spot market - a very desirable result. What is more, a small change in balance-of-payments can have a very strong cascade effect on the domestic economy, as cash saved is invested in local manufactures. It is essentially that process that changed the USA from a primarily agrarian nation into an industrial superpower in two generations! Now the question is: how to make this feasible? There must be standard methods, easily implemented at small scale, for refining coconut oil and/or biodiesel to a standard that is compatible with existing equipment, and there must be standard tests, easily and quickly carried out, for verifying that this has been accomplished. I would like to challenge interested listers to do as I do, tabulating the key acceptability criteria and searching for cheap and reliable methods for determining a sample's conformity to those criteria. Viscosity I think is easy. Water content, free acids and alkalis, etc. may require considerable thought and experiment - or has this already been worked out? Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Ken! Whether you dig it,grow it or catch it as sunlight. If there is an exponential increase in the rate of use of energy it would need to come from an infinite source at a potentially infinite rate, to be sustainable. There is an absolute limit to Cultivatable land, one we reached at least 30 years ago. Not true, and not an issue - food production and biofuels production are compatible, not competitors. See previous posts. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ The reason Governments even notice concerns about climate change is that it may mean less land is suitable for cultivation, at least on a national basis. We NEED to take the exponential out of first world consumer patterns. We NEED to use what we know about human population dynamics to take the exponential out of population growth. I might just stop about there, I'm starting to preach again - at least if you get to hear me do the passion bit on the rostrum it can be entertaining. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Ken! Whether you dig it,grow it or catch it as sunlight. If there is an exponential increase in the rate of use of energy it would need to come from an infinite source at a potentially infinite rate, to be sustainable. There is an absolute limit to Cultivatable land, one we reached at least 30 years ago. Not true, and not an issue - food production and biofuels production are compatible, not competitors. See previous posts. .. Think this one out. One 60# bushel of soy yields ~1+ gallons of cold pressed oil (11#s when solvent extracted). It also yields ~45#s of 48% high protein feed meal. Place the one gallon of biodiesel in the tank of a high fuel economy diesel passenger car. Place the 45#s of meal in the passenger's seat. Assume that your only food source for one day is the feed meal. Start the car and proceed down the road. See which runs out first. Had the trip been 500 miles, the fuel economy of the car been 50 mpg, you would have been the impetus for amassing 450#s of food, yet only consuming perhaps 1. Herein lies the biggest concern relative to biodiesel - a feed meal glut - thereby bringing offerings for oil bearing commodities down. The farming community needs to bring every oil bearing seed possible into play to regulate the feed meal production or else more farmers will succcumb to bankruptcy when the backlash of a glut hits. Sorry, but it's a reality. Perhaps now some will see why high oil / low meal yielding crops like hemp must be brought into the market - to reduce feed meal supply relative to oil production. It's not a hippie vs conservative thing. It's a survival thing. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Waste Veggie Oil Disposal Problem
Great article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about waste veggie oil. Price is so low, companies are dumping it down sewers. Cost to remove / clean sewers is enormous. Should be more than enough for biodiesel, and it helps clean up another problem as well. Looking forward to seeing more work on glycerin for dehydrating ethanol. Keep up the good work! Craig Green Bay, WI We support environmentally friendly advertising. Green Bay (920) 434-4555 Appleton (920) 731-9292 1-800-985-9000 email Free shopping coupons from AmeriCoupons.com To be removed from future mailings simply reply to this message with Remove in the subject line. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
