Re: [biofuels-biz] Output capacity of still (ATF Form)
Hello Rick, welcome Hello all. First, let me say that this is the most useful newsgroup to which I have ever subscribed. I must add that this newsgroup and the journeytoforever web site is changing my way of life and how I view motor fuels. I plan to produce biodiesel sometime in the near future and have decided to use ethanol in the process...so I need a still. You haven't made any biodiesel yet? If not, using ethanol (ethyl esters) is not the place to start. Before chasing up stills and permits it might be wise (would be wise!) to get a little practice making biodiesel first. Start here, using small batches - half-to-one litre: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then keep going. Once you've got a good feel for making biodiesel with methanol and a single-stage process, then you could consider trying ethanol. See: Ethyl-esters biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html#ethylester Note how it starts: Ethanol-based Biodiesel 1. Get plenty of experience making biodiesel with methanol before you try it with ethanol. That's right. We know of no novice who's succeeded, but we know of plenty who've failed. Best wishes Keith Of course, I must get a license from the ATF first and the form wants to know the capacity of my still in proof gallons (which I have not built yet). As luck would have it, I came across what seems like a 200 gallon industrial water heater acquired from a local Shoney's restaurant. This will be my mash vat. I plan to mount several three inch rectifying columns on the vat. My guess would be three to four columns would work fine for such a tank. Can anyone give me an estimate of how many proof gallons such a still would produce in a 24 hour period. It will be a one vat batch system so I don't know how long the mash cooking, fermenting and distillation will take; therefore, I do not know the output capacity of a still of this size in a 24 hour time frame. A rough estimate would do fine just so I can get the ball rolling with the ATF guys! Of course, any more suggestions would be very welcome since I am new at the bio-fuel world. Thanks Rick Best Regards, Rick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel
There was a member who posted that there are two SFO stations that are selling BioFuel. Do you have pictures of these 2 stations? With the sign that have the prices for B20 or B100? Need proof to show major and major pro tem, please send to me. Any other BioFuel stations? Need photos! Photo is more convicing! Thanks! Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Output capacity of still (ATF Form)
I've succeeded and I've failed at making ethanol biodiesel. I would second what Keith just posted, but suggest that you hang on to that 200 gallon water heater- it'll make a great and (for a homebrewer anyhow) extremely large biodiesel processor someday, if you decide to work on such a scale (heating times becomes an issue, as does oil collections, and any failures you have become a bigger deal since you'll have invested more oil, methanol, and energy into anything on that scale.) Large water heaters are a really good vessel for the advanced stuff. In the meantime get comfortable with liter batches and then upsize a few times. good luck, mark As luck would have it, I came across what seems like a 200 gallon industrial water heater acquired from a local Shoney's restaurant. This will be my mash vat. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel
http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel/ Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tricia Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:03 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel There was a member who posted that there are two SFO stations that are selling BioFuel. Do you have pictures of these 2 stations? With the sign that have the prices for B20 or B100? Need proof to show major and major pro tem, please send to me. Any other BioFuel stations? Need photos! Photo is more convicing! Thanks! Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] new jaguar diesel
For those of us with more $ than cents (pun intended), look in the Jaguar showrooms next year for the 2005 S-Type with it's 3.0 liter V6 Diesel. Mommy, why does that Jag smell like French fries? http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/yohn As an aside, Low Sulfur diesel will be showing up at the pumps in early 2006, so biodiesel will be a happy high lubricity, high cetane enhancement. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel supplies
I am beginning a club here at Appalachian State University to make and distribute Biodiesel to the students and staff. I am interested in using Aleks Kac's foolproof method from JtF. However, I've been looking around for a source of Sulphuric acid and the biology dept has quoted me around $20 a litre! Does anyone have any reccomendations for sources of NaOH and Sulphuric acid? I've checked on the archives and found this question, but no answers... How much of this acid would one need for a 50 gal batch? Thanks, please email me personally as I am not a list subscriber Chris Jude ASU Biodiesel Club Boone, NC 1980 MB 240D - 350K miles _ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel supplies
At $20 a liter you're paying for bureaucracy (and lab grade). You can get NaOH at most hardware stores and groceries - Red Devil Lye. You can get KOH in 1-100 pound lots from soap companies on the internet (Rainbow Meadow, etc), or commercial chemical warehouses. Sulfuric is available through almost any commercial chemical distributor. An example is Aqua Chem (in Columbus, Ohio), where 95-98% sulfuric and 85% phosphoric can be had for ~$19.00 a gallon. You just have to get inventive. Speak with your city's water treatment manager. They might be able to point you to a supplier that sells gallon lots. But don't rely on your lab department or lab suppliers, at least not if you don't want to pay through the nose. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Chris Jude [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel supplies I am beginning a club here at Appalachian State University to make and distribute Biodiesel to the students and staff. I am interested in using Aleks Kac's foolproof method from JtF. However, I've been looking around for a source of Sulphuric acid and the biology dept has quoted me around $20 a litre! Does anyone have any reccomendations for sources of NaOH and Sulphuric acid? I've checked on the archives and found this question, but no answers... How much of this acid would one need for a 50 gal batch? Thanks, please email me personally as I am not a list subscriber Chris Jude ASU Biodiesel Club Boone, NC 1980 MB 240D - 350K miles _ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Output capacity of still (ATF Form)
Hello all. First, let me say that this is the most useful newsgroup to which I have ever subscribed. I must add that this newsgroup and the journeytoforever web site is changing my way of life and how I view motor fuels. I plan to produce biodiesel sometime in the near future and have decided to use ethanol in the process...so I need a still. Of course, I must get a license from the ATF first and the form wants to know the capacity of my still in proof gallons (which I have not built yet). As luck would have it, I came across what seems like a 200 gallon industrial water heater acquired from a local Shoney's restaurant. This will be my mash vat. I plan to mount several three inch rectifying columns on the vat. My guess would be three to four columns would work fine for such a tank. Can anyone give me an estimate of how many proof gallons such a still would produce in a 24 hour period. It will be a one vat batch system so I don't know how long the mash cooking, fermenting and distillation will take; therefore, I do not know the output capacity of a still of this size in a 24 hour time frame. A rough estimate would do fine just so I can get the ball rolling with the ATF guys! Of course, any more suggestions would be very welcome since I am new at the bio-fuel world. Thanks Rick Best Regards, Rick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
James, You will find that many people who have never come to the US get their perceptions of America from watching American television shows. Hows that for a scary thought. We like them often have misperceptions of the world. For example, I used to work for an international telecom forum and went to meetings in Europe. I found that I really like Paris and all the people I met there were friendly and helpful. I was with collegues and we stepped out of a store into light mist. We were looking at a map and a gentleman came up and asked us in english if he could help. He looked at our map and where we had to go and showed us the most direct route. I find that people everywhere I've been (London, Paris, Nice, Birmingam UK, Frankfurt, Mumbai, Delhi, and Agra) have generally been easy going and friendly, its governments that are hard to take :-) td --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer the term enclosed truck that seats many as that is exactly what my UV does. Right now it has 12 LMR 400 spools in the back and some various 5 gal buckets, and also some recycling I need to take in. ;-) But then again, I walked to work so the air stays cleaner (and me healthier). James Slayden On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Tony Curtis, Check me if I'm wrong but I've been over to Journeytoforever.org and I believe that Kieth does indeed drive an SUV. He of course does fuel it with buidiesel and that does make a difference. We'd never heard of SUVs. We thought they were 4x4s, or 4WDs. Same Series Land Rovers that Jean-Leon was just talking about, though not quite as old as his (not that that makes any difference). And indeed they spent much of their time off-road, doing what they were built for - and that's work, not fun. Again to quote Jean-Leon: A real working vehicle is not an SUV - I consider real trucks UVs. Right. Anyway, one was a diesel, which ran on biodiesel, the other gasoline, which we'd planned to run on ethanol. We do have a fuel ethanol still, but it's not what it's claimed to be and the search for a real fuel still proved elusive. Very. Could be some news on that soon though. But we never got to run it on ethanol. Much as we loved them, we sold them both a while back. They were great for our learning curve but as our project developed we realized they weren't what we needed. No need for real workhorses yet though, we won't be leaving until winter at least, and it shouldn't be a problem then. Meanwhile we're getting involved in various rural projects here in and around this village, as planned, but again we don't need an SUV, nor a real UV workhorse either - we're using the Toyota I was telling Curtis about: SNIP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
I would argue that the No Fault argument that the insurers sold most states is absolutely a scam. The argument was that no fault would reduce or keep rates low if it was the law that everyone be insured. I think you are right that the courts are part of the problem but not all of it. Is she working in the actuarial end of the business? Since my background is Math I may be able to track down a former classmate who is doing actuarial work, seems like a couple ppl I knew went into that. This would give us hard data on accident rates. I would still argue that insuring the driver and the car for liability is double dipping. You cannot drive more than one car at a time. The argument that the dammage caused by different vehicles is somewhat valid but I think that the actuarial tables will show this to be less an issue than insurers would claim it is. If it is liability and you have two cars then charge based on the most dammage you can do but don't charge liability for two cars, the cars do not drive themselves :-) . You should not have to have liability insurance before you get a vehicle registration you might consider it manditory (I'd buy that) that you have it before you get a drivers license regardless if you own a car or not. td --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a wife that works in the insurance industry, I learned a bit about insurance. Absolutely scandalous rates? Needful in many cases. First of all a few things are taken into account, things like were you live, how far you drive to work, the vehical make and model, your driving history including your age, and the total number of miles you drive in a year. Let take them one at a time. It will also tell them the likely hood of having it stolen. Were you live. This tells the insurance company a few things, Cost of living, and from that the cost of repairs or replacement and what average medical expenses might be like. The population/car density of the area and this tells them the odds of you getting in an accident. This can also tell them the likelihood of you encountering a driver that does not have insurance. Having it stolen is also a factor depending on the type of vehical it is. I can guarantee you that if you live in a place were the cost of living is high, insurance will be high to compensate. How far you drive to work. Tells them about how long you are on the road each day ( the longer you are on the road the more likely you are to be involved in an accident) and the total number of miles you drive in a year Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
Sport Utility Vehicle...Neither sporty, nor utilitarian as a prof. of mine once said... Ed On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 08:59 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Tony Hey Kieth, --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tony Curtis, Check me if I'm wrong but I've been over to Journeytoforever.org and I believe that Kieth does indeed drive an SUV. He of course does fuel it with buidiesel and that does make a difference. We'd never heard of SUVs. We thought they were 4x4s, or 4WDs. Same Series Land Rovers that Jean-Leon was just talking about, though not quite as old as his (not that that makes any difference). And indeed they spent much of their time off-road, doing what they were built for - and that's work, not fun. Again to quote Jean-Leon: A real working vehicle is not an SUV - I consider real trucks UVs. hard to say where the SUV term came from , maybe marketing, maybe someone online, you know how that goes. Whatever, it's a recent term, not nearly as old as 4WD vehicles are. Older than online (or at least than the Web) but less than 20 years I'd say, and an American term, not in general world use even now. They used to all be real workhorses but I'm afraid I don't see taking an $80,000 USD SUV off roading. Now an old Ford Bronco could really go off road. Right. Anyway, one was a diesel, which ran on biodiesel, the other gasoline, which we'd planned to run on ethanol. We do have a fuel ethanol still, but it's not what it's claimed to be and the search for a real fuel still proved elusive. Very. Could be some news on that soon though. But we never got to run it on ethanol. Much as we loved them, we sold them both a while back. They were great for our learning curve but as our project developed we realized they weren't what we needed. No need for real workhorses yet though, we won't be leaving until winter at least, and it shouldn't be a problem then. Meanwhile we're getting involved in various rural projects here in and around this village, as planned, but again we don't need an SUV, nor a real UV workhorse either - we're using the Toyota I was telling Curtis about: Whats a Town Ace? Is it like a Corolla or more like a Tocoma (Don't know what the names are there, the marketers are really world wide :-) Called a Town-Ace in the US. Picture here: http://www.us-autosales.com/townacel.htm US Auto - Honda Town Ace Lite Wow, $3,800 - $6,500 Depending on model year and options. :-) Higher clearance than it looks in this picture, by the way. The Hi-Ace is similar but bigger, and the original model - the first Hi-Aces were made in the late 60s I think. Current Hi-Aces have 3-litre turbo diesels and full-time 4x4. Too big for us - rural access roads in Japan are small, tight spaces. Our Toyota Town-Ace turbo van is a 4x4, and it's serious, not just a toy. Too busy to really put it through its paces off-road very much yet, coming soon - plenty of great off-road tracks here, and in places we need to go to. Maybe you noticed Ed trying to get us to give it to him? LOL! Sorry Ed! Aleks Kac's an avid off-roader, there are a couple of these Town-Aces in his club, and he says I have seen them embarrass quite a few 'purebred' 4WDs on muddy hills. 1.9-litre 4-cyl turbo diesel, we're getting more than 40 mpg. The Town-Ace is great! We're really impressed with it, and it's perfect for what we're doing here. In fact we're thinking of taking it with us too, as well as a couple of workhorses. Good buy it was - it's in fine condition, 72,000 miles, which would be genuine. Cost equiv US$1,250. Actually it probably cost about $100 (seriously) - the rest is for the onerous supply of highly expensive paperwork required in Japan, which finally makes owning older cars prohibitive. This one was just on the balance where you win both ways, very good price. Anyway, I can't imagine why I'd ever want an SUV - I don't mean the exceptions, I mean the fashion-statement behemoths that aren't UVs at all. I asked before, by the way, does anybody know where the term SUV comes from? Impossible to tell. Could be marketers but they usually, are really not that creative. I don't think I agree with that. I've worked with a lot of marketing and advertising people in different ways. One of my complaints about advertising is that it buys off so many creative people who could and should be doing better and more useful things. Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Best Keith The SUV is simply not a practical vehicle for me. I live at the base of the Rockies and a lot of ppl justify a 4x4 with that but we really don't get that much snow down here in the lowlands at 5050 ft. The big issue I have with them is they do help you go but they don't
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
Keith, SNIP Whatever, it's a recent term, not nearly as old as 4WD vehicles are. Older than online (or at least than the Web) but less than 20 years I'd say, and an American term, not in general world use even now. I think so. When I was in Nice a couple of years back I was discussing cars with a couple from the London area. They were tellig me of the woes of their Estate car. I waited and asked later whats an estate car? :-) Called a Town-Ace in the US. Picture here: http://www.us-autosales.com/townacel.htm US Auto - Honda Town Ace Lite Wow, $3,800 - $6,500 Depending on model year and options. :-) Is that good or bad? Higher clearance than it looks in this picture, by the way. The Hi-Ace is similar but bigger, and the original model - the first Hi-Aces were made in the late 60s I think. Current Hi-Aces have 3-litre turbo diesels and full-time 4x4. Too big for us - rural access roads in Japan are small, tight spaces. Looks like an older Toyota minivan with a higher roofline. This is the first one I've ever seen. Oh, look at the steering wheel, its on the right side. Wonder where this one came from. Now this is a Diesel or I guess the one you have is a Diesel? SNIP Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Could be, I just think of all the goofy sports terms that people use and that concept comes to mind. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] so what is a reprocess test anyway? was Re: glycerol seperation and clouds
I just realized I didn't make clear what a reprocess test is: take a liter of your finished fuel, and 'process' it as though it were new oil and you were making biodiesel out of it- ie, warm it, and process it with 3.5 g lye and 200 ml methanol. If it contains unconverted matter- mono and diglycerides- doing this reprocessing will turn that matter into glycerine. If it's nice fuel (try this with commerical biodiesel) you shouldn't get much of a glycerine layer. The only problem with this test is that most of the 200 ml methanol is 'excess' and will all end up in the glycerine layer- and will make that layer look much larger than the amount of glycerine in it- so it's hard to make this a quantitative test where the amount of glycerine layer means anything specific. It's been suggested to me that this test should actually be done with a much smaller amount of methanol and lye but I haven't tried it out to see what happens. Take a look at the INfopop biodiesel board thread entitled 'suspended stuff- free at last' for one guy's tale of poor conversion woe (he was getting little bits of white stuff in his fuel, ouch), and some great info on dealing with it- the troubleshooting was interesting. this was during the era of the Infopop forum when everyone was swearing up and down that more lye was the answer to everything. In his case higher temps fixed the problem. mark So I started doing testing for poor conversion (the 'reprocess test')- and that shows that my fuel contains more unconverted matter- the reprocess test drops a huge amount more glycerine out of what I otherwise think is nice fuel. I think I know by now what it takes (normally) to get good conversion- a number of factors (listed below)- and I have tried to change every one of those factors. The changes are not changing the results very much. Likewise, several other people who work with this oil have tried to change a bunch of factors in the process and also have all failed to make a dent in the conversion. Our equipment is all different, so it's not something specific to my processor. I have changed: 1. longer agitation time 2. more methanol 3. more lye- up to 5 grams as the base amount instead of 3.5 (don't worry I also tried less than 3.5 in liter batches just to rule that out) Some people really swear by more lye as the answer to everything, but in this case it didn't work. 4. higher temperatures. This led to some improvement but not enough. 5. and we've all tried settling the stuff prior to washing, for weeks at a time. It failed to show any change in the ease of washing. the only variable I haven't tried has been using acid-base process on the stubborn stuff. I didn't try it because I couldn't believe that I needed to use it to convert such low-ffa oil. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel
There was a member who posted that there are two SFO stations that are selling BioFuel. Do you have pictures of these 2 stations? With the sign that have the prices for B20 or B100? Need proof to show major and major pro tem, please send to me. Any other BioFuel stations? Need photos! Photo is more convicing! Thanks! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
Hi again Tony Keith, SNIP Whatever, it's a recent term, not nearly as old as 4WD vehicles are. Older than online (or at least than the Web) but less than 20 years I'd say, and an American term, not in general world use even now. I think so. When I was in Nice a couple of years back I was discussing cars with a couple from the London area. They were tellig me of the woes of their Estate car. I waited and asked later whats an estate car? :-) Right. Do you call them station wagons? Do you know what a ute is? Or a bakkie (pron. buckie)? Or a technical? All the same thing, in Australia, South Africa and Somalia respectively - a pickup, I think you call it. (The Somali version mounts a machine-gun.) Do you know what jeep used to mean? Called a Town-Ace in the US. Picture here: http://www.us-autosales.com/townacel.htm US Auto - Honda Town Ace Lite Wow, $3,800 - $6,500 Depending on model year and options. :-) Is that good or bad? I said we paid US$1,250, mostly for the paperwork, actual cost probably about $100. Higher clearance than it looks in this picture, by the way. The Hi-Ace is similar but bigger, and the original model - the first Hi-Aces were made in the late 60s I think. Current Hi-Aces have 3-litre turbo diesels and full-time 4x4. Too big for us - rural access roads in Japan are small, tight spaces. Looks like an older Toyota minivan What's a minivan? Here in Japan that's not a minivan, a minivan is about a quarter that size but they don't call it that. with a higher roofline. This is the first one I've ever seen. Oh, look at the steering wheel, its on the right side. Wonder where this one came from. Japan, second-hand export. There aren't any older vehicles here, too expensive to own them, so people buy them up cheap and export them all over the world. Now this is a Diesel or I guess the one you have is a Diesel? 1.9-litre 4-cyl turbo diesel, we're getting more than 40 mpg. SNIP Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Could be, I just think of all the goofy sports terms that people use and that concept comes to mind. Oh, sports! Well... What sport do they use Sport Utility Vehicles in? Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and
someone in some SUV thread wrote: You should not have to have liability insurance before you get a vehicle registration you might consider it manditory (I'd buy that) that you have it before you get a drivers license regardless if you own a car or not. td and it triggered this for me: I've just got to jump in here and complain loudly about North Carolina (the state where I've lived the most out of my adult life, and where I got my first drivers license and first 10 (???) cars)- North Carolina has a regulation now on the books that to get a drivers license at all you have to have insurance. To have insurance you have to own a car. No car= no drivers' license. If you get rid of your car and cancel insurance you're supposed to surrender your drivers' license. In most states this is not the case. Ini North Carolina however, if you don't have a car but want a license (and if you live in a rural area with no public transit it sure and don't have a car, having a license is still necessary for things like informal carsharing, car renting, occasional emergency trips in borrowed vehicles, things that in all other states are OK by the insurers- trust me, the one accident I was in (in a friend's car in New Mexico) was covered by the friend's insurance)- anyway if you're car-free but want a license the NC DMV has a standard answer- find someone who'll add you to their car insurance policy. Which is all good and fine if you're a teenager living with parents- a considerably harder thing for all the adult, poor, schmoes I've ever picked up hitchhiking to work- I mean, people don't just put random neighbors/relatives on their policy- it's a huge trust and financial issue (I swear, I felt like NC was pretty hitchhiker-friendly just because so many state residents have at one point or another run afoul of the various driving laws there and know about 'walkin'!). It's a seemingly well-meaning law that made me wonder if the insurance lobby had somehow hijacked the state legislature. I saw some statistics once when I was living in the South. They were in a booklet put out by a weird Mormon (I think) woman who was singlehandedly running a homeless families shelter/food bank/clothing bank/ services nonprofit (a serious labor of love in her case) in North Georgia. After working with the extremely poor families and homeless people for a few years she figured out that the same theme kept coming up in these people's stories: in so many cases, cars started the families' slide into homelessness. She started looking at statistics and found a lot in the state and regional poverty statistics that backed up what she learned in the course of her work. I wish I had a copy of her statistics. The story was typically that rural residents need vehicles to go to jobs (there is effectively no public transportation in most of rural America. The rural South had at one time in history an excellent public transportation system- which was dismantled by the well-documented oil company/tire company buyout and closing down of the tram systems). Wages being what they are in the rural south, people tend to own crappy cars, something expensive breaks, the family can't afford the repair, and the person loses their job. Or people have poor driving records, dont pay their insurance bill, lose their insurance, get stopped for a busted tail-light, and lose their license (very common story). Or drinking and driving and losing of licenses is involved. And all of that leads to losing jobs... or not being able to travel to any kind of well-paying jobs... and not being able to save money to afford the next calamity... and quite often it leads to chronic poverty and sometimes on to homelessness. I've hung out with some exceedingly poor people all over the place, and I've certainly seen the stories behind these statistics myself. Not that I am at all arguing that we shouldn't require mandatory insurance laws or drunken driving laws. I am fully aware that I am piloting a dangerous weapon when I get behind the wheel. But I think a lot of, say, middle-class americans, have no idea how badly car-based culture destroys lives. If places like the rural south could invest more into public transit... arggh. but that's not how our society is structured. mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel
this list doesn't send attachments, so we can't send photos via list. There are lots of biodiesel pumps at various stations around the country. Look at the National Biodiesel Board website and follow a bunch of links- see what you can find. Biodiesel Industries is the company whose fuel is at the station in San Jose. Do a search for them, they have photos on the site I believe. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Tricia Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a member who posted that there are two SFO stations that are selling BioFuel. Do you have pictures of these 2 stations? With the sign that have the prices for B20 or B100? Need proof to show major and major pro tem, please send to me. Any other BioFuel stations? Need photos! Photo is more convicing! Thanks! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Old style - was [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
SNIP It had a straight-six engine, big, loads of torque. Joe might know about this - I think GM (or whatever) used that same motor for a long time, just kept on developing it. A few years later I had a 6-cylinder Chevy pick-up for awhile, nice beast, and the motor seemed basically the same. This seems to be one of the things .that's changed, along with the style and the wedding of fashion to cars (does more fashion mean less style?). I like this kind of technology development, where a good basic design just goes on and on being improved. Volkswagen is another example - they developed the Beetle for more than 50 years from Hitler's original People's Vehicle for everyone. Keith snip Yeah, the old 'blue flame' inline six. GM used that well into the seventies in the US, late eighties or longer in Brazil (running on ethanol) We had a Brazilian engineer here for a while with some GM Do Brazil cars. 88, 89? I don't remember. It was stange seeing the old inline six in these new vehicles. And they were still carbureted! Carburetor? Whats that? LOL! Blessings. Joe :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel
ahh, but you can send photo's to the list. http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/lst Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel this list doesn't send attachments, so we can't send photos via list. There are lots of biodiesel pumps at various stations around the country. Look at the National Biodiesel Board website and follow a bunch of links- see what you can find. Biodiesel Industries is the company whose fuel is at the station in San Jose. Do a search for them, they have photos on the site I believe. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Tricia Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a member who posted that there are two SFO stations that are selling BioFuel. Do you have pictures of these 2 stations? With the sign that have the prices for B20 or B100? Need proof to show major and major pro tem, please send to me. Any other BioFuel stations? Need photos! Photo is more convicing! Thanks! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: glycerol seperation and clouds
mark and keith - thanks for the advice. I am going to go down to the lab today and run several 1 liter tests, including reprocessing and the oil wash (intersesting idea!). I will report on what I find. What is the philosophy behind mixing the glycerine back in after seperation? and might that also be a help in my situation? Is it possible that 5 gallons glycerine (1/8 volume) seperation on 40 gallons oil is normal? What would be the consequence of burning fuel in an engine if there were more glycerine to drop out? Thanks for the follow up - more soon on my trials. Best, Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
That town ace looks a lot like what Toyota sold here as the mini van. it was the predecessor to the previa, which was the predecessor to the sienna. http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/1984/vmd5024ov.html Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:41 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all Hi again Tony Keith, SNIP Whatever, it's a recent term, not nearly as old as 4WD vehicles are. Older than online (or at least than the Web) but less than 20 years I'd say, and an American term, not in general world use even now. I think so. When I was in Nice a couple of years back I was discussing cars with a couple from the London area. They were tellig me of the woes of their Estate car. I waited and asked later whats an estate car? :-) Right. Do you call them station wagons? Do you know what a ute is? Or a bakkie (pron. buckie)? Or a technical? All the same thing, in Australia, South Africa and Somalia respectively - a pickup, I think you call it. (The Somali version mounts a machine-gun.) Do you know what jeep used to mean? Called a Town-Ace in the US. Picture here: http://www.us-autosales.com/townacel.htm US Auto - Honda Town Ace Lite Wow, $3,800 - $6,500 Depending on model year and options. :-) Is that good or bad? I said we paid US$1,250, mostly for the paperwork, actual cost probably about $100. Higher clearance than it looks in this picture, by the way. The Hi-Ace is similar but bigger, and the original model - the first Hi-Aces were made in the late 60s I think. Current Hi-Aces have 3-litre turbo diesels and full-time 4x4. Too big for us - rural access roads in Japan are small, tight spaces. Looks like an older Toyota minivan What's a minivan? Here in Japan that's not a minivan, a minivan is about a quarter that size but they don't call it that. with a higher roofline. This is the first one I've ever seen. Oh, look at the steering wheel, its on the right side. Wonder where this one came from. Japan, second-hand export. There aren't any older vehicles here, too expensive to own them, so people buy them up cheap and export them all over the world. Now this is a Diesel or I guess the one you have is a Diesel? 1.9-litre 4-cyl turbo diesel, we're getting more than 40 mpg. SNIP Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Could be, I just think of all the goofy sports terms that people use and that concept comes to mind. Oh, sports! Well... What sport do they use Sport Utility Vehicles in? Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Red lights cause faster healing
An answer to methanol poisoning? Kirk Red lights might battle blindness By Charles Choi March 4, 2003 (UPI) Three flashes of red light prevented eye damage and promoted healing of the retina after rats suffered blindness from methanol poisoning, researchers reported Monday. The novel findings, the researchers said, suggest light therapy could lead to non-invasive treatments that help prevent and reverse other forms of eye diseases and injuries as well -- such as glaucoma, researcher Janis Eells, a neurotoxicologist at the Medical College of Wisconsin, told United Press International. The military also was intrigued enough by this work to fund it, Eells explained. They're interested from a wound healing perspective. Eye injuries are common among soldiers, she said. The researchers focused on eye damage caused by toxic exposure to methanol, or wood alcohol. Methanol is one of the most common industrial solvents and is found in everything from windshield wiper fluid to antifreeze. If accidentally ingested, methanol can cause blindness within 18-to-48 hours. Methanol contamination is why moonshine, or illicitly distilled whiskey, at times causes blindness. Scientists suspect methanol damages the retina and optic nerve by increasing concentrations of a compound called formic acid, the same toxin found in ant bites and bee stings. Formic acid normally is found in the human body in trace levels, where it provides essential carbon for use in DNA and proteins, Eells said. In excess, however, formic acid inhibits a key enzyme known as cytochrome oxidase. The enzyme is found in the mitochondria, the microscopic powerhouses of cells. Cytochrome oxidase is an energy-generating enzyme compound for the proper functioning of nearly all cells, especially those in the eye and brain. Although methanol poisoning is relatively uncommon -- with only 5,000 cases or so a year in the United States -- Eells said mitochondrial damage is linked to other types of visual disorders. Her colleague at MCW, cell biologist Margaret Wong-Riley, showed her two years ago that red light from light emitting diodes, or LEDs, could stimulate the mitochondria in nerve cells grown on lab dishes. This is light 10 times brighter than the sun, Eells explained, and hundreds of times brighter than the light emitted by common household LED sources such as alarm clocks. The special cigarette pack-sized LED originally was designed by NASA to help green plants grow in space, because the wavelengths used are ideal for promoting photosynthesis. One of the other things they noticed was that it not only worked well in growing plants, but some people noticed their cuts were healing a bit faster, Eells said. Eells said she was quite skeptical at first that red light therapy could help promote eye healing. But in findings appearing online March 3 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, her team found brief doses of light therapy produced dramatic results. These last couple of years have been the best part of my scientific career. You never think it's going to be like this. Mostly you think you're just going to plod along. This is incredibly exciting. I've had energy in science I haven't had in years, Eells said. The researchers took rats and gave them diluted methanol injections, so the rodents' blood methanol levels matched concentrations that would cause blindness in humans after about 20 hours. Within 5, 25 and 50 hours after the initial injections, the rats were given 144-second-long doses of LED light. The researchers then measured retinal function by studying the signals the retinal cells generated after they were stimulated electrically. Rats treated with the light improved significantly, recovering about 60 percent of their eyesight. Moreover, examination of their retinas under electron microscopes revealed the light apparently blocked mitochondrial damage -- their retinas were indistinguishable from those of normal mice. We've tried drugs to improve recovery once we poisoned the retina. This is the first thing we've used that reversed the damage, Eells said. In conjunction with other treatments for methanol poisoning -- such as dialysis to cleanse the methanol out of the body and certain drugs -- Eells said she is confident light therapy can produce 100 percent recovery. She cautioned, however, the LED light used in the experiments is special and does not burn. It's not going to work just staring at your alarm clock, and you don't want to shine your laser pointer in your eye, or just strap a red filter over your flashlight, Eells said. She noted a number of charlatans were selling LED therapies of questionable efficacy, and she added that giving too long a dose was ultimately counterproductive and certain wavelengths of red light could be more effective than others. In remains uncertain exactly how the red light therapy achieves its healthful effect, Eells said. She speculated it might have to do with the origins
[biofuel] New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
I just filled up with biodiesel at West Valley Oil this morning in San Jose. Couldn't be easier. Just drive up to the pump (there are 2 hoses available), pump your B100 biodiesel, and pay for it in the office. No extra charge to use my ATM card. I don't know about any surcharge for credit cards. Price is $2.79 a gallon for B100, but it feel's great driving a sustainable fuel vehicle. I still had about 1/2 a tank of #2 diesel in the car, so I guess I'm running a B50 blend. Bob Brown at West Valley Oil told me that they are currently using about 50% virgin and 50% waste vegetable oil sourced biodiesel. He says that there is more btu capability out of the waste vegetable oil source, and I'm not sure if it is wishful thinking or not, but on my drive home on the freeway, I felt more power out of my little 1.6L VW diesel Westy. The proof of the impression is that I found myself in the rare atmosphere of the fast lane doing 70 MPH Formerly 65 on a GOOD day! (maybe I had a tailwind) Pretty simple to get there. From the North, take 280 to the 10th / 11th Street exit and turn right on 10th Street. Travel about 10 blocks and it's on your left just after Spartan Stadium. The address is 1790 S. 10th. I ran into one other biodiesel customer that heard about this station from your posting just as I was telling Bob that I think he's going to get a lot of business from people like me who have been looking for a local source of publicly available biodiesel for a while. I hope that people let others know about this station. It is great to have an other source than the Olympian cardlock station in S.F. and West Valley Oil should be rewarded with lots of business for taking the initiative to make B100 available to the general public. Olympian Oil (and others), are you listening? Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
That town ace looks a lot like what Toyota sold here as the mini van. it was the predecessor to the previa, which was the predecessor to the sienna. http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/1984/vmd5024ov.html Never heard of the Previa or the Sienna. Marketing, sure, but also Japanese car companies and names are something else. Do you remember a while back when an Oz member said he had a Mitsubishi Pajero SUV and a Brazilian member told him what it meant? Our 94 diesel Pajero... what's in a name ? in most spanish speaking countries a 'pajero' is what in oz is known as a 'w_nk_r'. could never understand such a name in what is supposed to be a 'global' product :-) D'you think I should tell them? Anyway I don't know why it's called a Town-Ace, it's geared as a camper - sleeps two comfortably, or seats eight, or fold it all back and you can get a big load of stuff in there. That could be a Town-Ace in the picture Steve, an older one, bit hard to tell from the back. Hm... Sienna, okay, longer nose, smaller space inside I guess, prolly faster. I don't know what they call them here. How about this? - The Reliability Index Values are based on reported problems in 6 to 8 year old vehicles. To see an extrapolation of the current seven-year Reliability Index gap between Toyota and the Big Three, go to the Bottom Line on Reliability web page of the Auto on Info website. This web page will give you an idea as to what you can expect of a new 2003 Big Three engineered model relative to a 2003 Toyota or Honda model. http://www.autooninfo.net/AutoonInfo/TheBottomLineonReliability.htm Interesting stats. Best Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:41 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all Hi again Tony Keith, SNIP Whatever, it's a recent term, not nearly as old as 4WD vehicles are. Older than online (or at least than the Web) but less than 20 years I'd say, and an American term, not in general world use even now. I think so. When I was in Nice a couple of years back I was discussing cars with a couple from the London area. They were tellig me of the woes of their Estate car. I waited and asked later whats an estate car? :-) Right. Do you call them station wagons? Do you know what a ute is? Or a bakkie (pron. buckie)? Or a technical? All the same thing, in Australia, South Africa and Somalia respectively - a pickup, I think you call it. (The Somali version mounts a machine-gun.) Do you know what jeep used to mean? Called a Town-Ace in the US. Picture here: http://www.us-autosales.com/townacel.htm US Auto - Honda Town Ace Lite Wow, $3,800 - $6,500 Depending on model year and options. :-) Is that good or bad? I said we paid US$1,250, mostly for the paperwork, actual cost probably about $100. Higher clearance than it looks in this picture, by the way. The Hi-Ace is similar but bigger, and the original model - the first Hi-Aces were made in the late 60s I think. Current Hi-Aces have 3-litre turbo diesels and full-time 4x4. Too big for us - rural access roads in Japan are small, tight spaces. Looks like an older Toyota minivan What's a minivan? Here in Japan that's not a minivan, a minivan is about a quarter that size but they don't call it that. with a higher roofline. This is the first one I've ever seen. Oh, look at the steering wheel, its on the right side. Wonder where this one came from. Japan, second-hand export. There aren't any older vehicles here, too expensive to own them, so people buy them up cheap and export them all over the world. Now this is a Diesel or I guess the one you have is a Diesel? 1.9-litre 4-cyl turbo diesel, we're getting more than 40 mpg. SNIP Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Could be, I just think of all the goofy sports terms that people use and that concept comes to mind. Oh, sports! Well... What sport do they use Sport Utility Vehicles in? Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe
[biofuel] Question about making biodiesel
Hi, I am interested in making biodiesel. What do you do with the waste from processing used cooking oils? As an example, how much waste do you have from 50 gallons of used unfiltered, oil. Any suggestions for disposal? Thanks Joe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: glycerol seperation and clouds
mark and keith - thanks for the advice. I am going to go down to the lab today and run several 1 liter tests, including reprocessing and the oil wash (intersesting idea!). I will report on what I find. What is the philosophy behind mixing the glycerine back in after seperation? and might that also be a help in my situation? Aleks suggests it in the acid-base two-stage method (but not an essential step): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Foolproof biodiesel process See Step #18. Is it possible that 5 gallons glycerine (1/8 volume) seperation on 40 gallons oil is normal? Should be about 11%, but I think that's just the glyc, and you're probably talking of everything, aren't you? - the stuff that drops out at the bottom of the tank, glycerine, soap (from FFA), catalyst and about half the excess methanol. But 5 in 40 could be right. What would be the consequence of burning fuel in an engine if there were more glycerine to drop out? Have a look at this previous message about contaminants: http://nnytech.net/~archive2/index.php?view=18968list=BIOFUEL Thanks for the follow up - more soon on my trials. Yes please! Best Keith Best, Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and
Mark, I agree with some of your post but must respectfully disagree with the car-culture and rural poverty in the US argument. On insurance, the issue is who is liable the driver or the car. If the costs were fairly allocated it would fix part of the problem. Gov't. seems to make problems worse whenever they get involved. I also lived in rural america (Kentucky) and I even lived below the poverty line. These car, wealthy people, society is the fault arguments never seem to place any value on the individual decisions made by the people. Its always culture, society, or some other bad guy that caused all their problems. My view is that the only reason anyone in america is poor is by their own choice. I have heard so many arguments against getting education when I lived in rural areas. you don't need that, book learnin won't make you smarter, got book learning but no common sense, Why you can stay here and work for less than minimum wage, you don't need that college. Having been below the poverty line and having worked my way up to middle class, I have no liberal guilt. I am happy to talk to people about how to resolve this but too many people have bought into the socialist view that the reason they are poor is because someone else took their share of the pie. Personal and individual decisions are a major and possibly the most significant part of this equation. Been there, done that.
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
Didn't they call the early one the Previa too? --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That town ace looks a lot like what Toyota sold here as the mini van. it was the predecessor to the previa, which was the predecessor to the sienna. http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/1984/vmd5024ov.html Never heard of the Previa or the Sienna. Marketing, sure, but also Japanese car companies and names are something else. Do you remember a while back when an Oz member said he had a Mitsubishi Pajero SUV and a Brazilian member told him what it meant? Our 94 diesel Pajero... what's in a name ? in most spanish speaking countries a 'pajero' is what in oz is known as a 'w_nk_r'. could never understand such a name in what is supposed to be a 'global' product :-) I thought they spoke Portugese in Brazil? Seems like Richard Fineman found out the hard way. D'you think I should tell them? Anyway I don't know why it's called a Town-Ace, it's geared as a camper - sleeps two comfortably, or seats eight, or fold it all back and you can get a big load of stuff in there. That could be a Town-Ace in the picture Steve, an older one, bit hard to tell from the back. Hm... Sienna, okay, longer nose, smaller space inside I guess, prolly faster. I don't know what they call them here. How about this? - The Reliability Index Values are based on reported problems in 6 to 8 year old vehicles. To see an extrapolation of the current seven-year Reliability Index gap between Toyota and the Big Three, go to the Bottom Line on Reliability web page of the Auto on Info website. This web page will give you an idea as to what you can expect of a new 2003 Big Three engineered model relative to a 2003 Toyota or Honda model. http://www.autooninfo.net/AutoonInfo/TheBottomLineonReliability.htm Interesting stats. Yes but what do they mean? Is -0.63 a big reliability difference or is -6.3 or -63.0? The comment Second, there is no evident need to improve. seems to mean fron context that the sales do not dictate a need for improvement but it also may mean that the differences are not that severe. There is more to ownership than baseline reliability costs. For example the Honda and Toyota are (in my experience) more costly to maintain. Then there is the dealer experience. Ford dealers are why I have probably bought my last Ford ever. I was looking at Toyota for my next car but I think it will be a Diesel and there are no new car options that fit my criteria. Best Keith SNIP td Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
I hope that people let others know about this station. It is great to have an other source than the Olympian cardlock station in S.F. and West Valley Oil should be rewarded with lots of business for taking the initiative to make B100 available to the general public. Olympian Oil (and others), are you listening? Henry Hi: If you get the chance, could you keep some data for a few tanks full of regular petroleum diesel in your car, as to mileage per gallon, and then, after you have transitioned entirely to B100 (i.e. a tank or two past the transition of B50 as you noted) keep some data for the mileage of the B100 you are getting, so we can have an idea? If there is any difference in mileage, this would adjust our view of the $ per mile, which is so important to others. I think all this needs is a notebook in your car where you can reset the trip odometer at each refill and note the exact number of gallons it took to refill (i.e., the amount you used). Over a few tanks, this should give some somewhat useful data. Long-term project suggestion for you or someone else. If it's too much trouble, thanks in any case for the report! To be honest, it's the first time I've personally heard of someone being able to do what you've done, in the States or maybe anywhere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
A few years ago I tried to convince a co-worker that he should at least look at the Diesel since it was available in the car he was looking at. The arguments he had were dirty, smelly, get it on your hands, get it in the car, and get it on your clothes. B100 fixes one of the most common objections to Diesel. Now if we can get it to be cost competitive with gasoline (not D2 as the argument is to gasoline car owners). td --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, hjackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just filled up with biodiesel at West Valley Oil this morning in San Jose. Couldn't be easier. Just drive up to the pump (there are 2 hoses available), pump your B100 biodiesel, and pay for it in the office. No extra charge to use my ATM card. I don't know about any surcharge for credit cards. Price is $2.79 a gallon for B100, but it feel's great driving a sustainable fuel vehicle. I still had about 1/2 a tank of #2 diesel in the car, so I guess I'm running a B50 blend. Bob Brown at West Valley Oil told me that they are currently using about 50% virgin and 50% waste vegetable oil sourced biodiesel. He says that there is more btu capability out of the waste vegetable oil source, and I'm not sure if it is wishful thinking or not, but on my drive home on the freeway, I felt more power out of my little 1.6L VW diesel Westy. The proof of the impression is that I found myself in the rare atmosphere of the fast lane doing 70 MPH Formerly 65 on a GOOD day! (maybe I had a tailwind) Pretty simple to get there. From the North, take 280 to the 10th / 11th Street exit and turn right on 10th Street. Travel about 10 blocks and it's on your left just after Spartan Stadium. The address is 1790 S. 10th. I ran into one other biodiesel customer that heard about this station from your posting just as I was telling Bob that I think he's going to get a lot of business from people like me who have been looking for a local source of publicly available biodiesel for a while. I hope that people let others know about this station. It is great to have an other source than the Olympian cardlock station in S.F. and West Valley Oil should be rewarded with lots of business for taking the initiative to make B100 available to the general public. Olympian Oil (and others), are you listening? Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Question about making biodiesel
Hi, I am interested in making biodiesel. What do you do with the waste from processing used cooking oils? As an example, how much waste do you have from 50 gallons of used unfiltered, oil. Any suggestions for disposal? Thanks Joe Hi Joe No waste product except in the wash water, and that can be minimized. The by-product consists of glycerine, soaps, catalyst and excess methanol. Here's what you can do with it (and more - there are useful products that can be made from recovered FFAs from the soaps, for instance): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html Glycerine Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 20:55 Subject: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption I would argue that the No Fault argument that the insurers sold most states is absolutely a scam. The argument was that no fault would reduce or keep rates low if it was the law that everyone be insured. The thing is people don't realize that insurance is not just for their own good, but, others as well, so what they do is they go out and get insurance, long enough for proof of insurance , then cancel as soon as it's convenient. I think you are right that the courts are part of the problem but not all of it. Is she working in the actuarial end of the business? Since my background is Math I may be able to track down a former classmate who is doing actuarial work, seems like a couple ppl I knew went into that. This would give us hard data on accident rates. She works the claims side. I would still argue that insuring the driver and the car for liability is double dipping. You cannot drive more than one car at a time. The argument that the dammage caused by different vehicles is somewhat valid but I think that the actuarial tables will show this to be less an issue than insurers would claim it is. If it is liability and you have two cars then charge based on the most dammage you can do but don't charge liability for two cars, the cars do not drive themselves :-) . Lets back up a bit, I have 2 vehicles that do not run, so I do not have insurance on them, but, according to the law ( and civil courts ), if some kid trespasses into my yard, climbs up onto the top of one of them, and while clowning around, falls off and breaks his arm, I'm still liable. Now I was not driving ether of the vehicles, the vehicles do not run, but, the one the kid might have climbed would have been involved in an accident as surly as if I was driving it. You should not have to have liability insurance before you get a vehicle registration you might consider it manditory (I'd buy that) that you have it before you get a drivers license regardless if you own a car or not. The problem is people who have licenses don't always drive, and then you are penalizing them just because they can. On the other hand by requiring people to show proof of insurance, when doing a vehicle registration, they are showing that they are insured at that time. This does not stop dishonest people from canceling the insurance after finishing the vehicle registration. Now some states ( especially ones with required insurance laws ) have tried to combat this by requiring that insurance companies give notice to the state when someone cancels coverage. Some insurance companies have worked with states on this, because it would reduce the number of non-insured vehicles out there, but then most insurance companies bitch and complain that it would require more paperwork for them and their overloaded agents and a higher cost to their customers ( this is BS because a simple database is all that is needed ). States also need to crack down on uninsured motorist. If a person, committed fraud by getting insurance long enough for vehicle registration, then canceled it ( should be easy enough to check out ), make it a true crime not just a civil matter, in which they just lose their drivers license, or if they do lose their license, make them post a bond equal to 5 years worth of insurance, to get it back ( and the bond payees for the insurance for that time ). Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
Greg, You have some pretty good arguments but I still think that tying liability to the driver can be the more equitable solution. 1) On the case of the unused car that is seldom insured. The person that trespasses should be held accountable and this is the root of that issue. Yet your car insurance would not likely be the answer here as your homeowners insurance would be the area where a claim is most likely to be filed. 2) The insurance cancellation is a problem but if liability insurance was tied to the license rather than the car the drivers license could be pulled. 3) For the low time driver, thats a tougher one. It could be based on actual driving time. A person could lie about their hours but most would not and the problem could be statistically modeled to accomodate this. People can misrepresent the miles in the car too and some do, probably the sane ones who cancel now and would misrepresent miles on the car :-) Maybe.
RE: [biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and
snip I also lived in rural america (Kentucky) and I even lived below the poverty line. These car, wealthy people, society is the fault arguments never seem to place any value on the individual decisions made by the people. Its always culture, society, or some other bad guy that caused all their problems. I used to work in downtown Denver. -- Seems to me you left. Denver is not rural America. Many people -- or at least their wives-- are not ready to leave all their family behind for urban opportunity. That means the reality of minimum wage. I live in central Montana. Skilled blue collar workers get $7 to $10 an hour. Yet repairs at a dealer are within 10% of LA prices. It is called exploitation and it is not the fault of the man who lives here. The owners of these corporations are USUALLY out of staters. Sort of a variation on ghetto labor exploitation. The bad guys wear 3 piece suits and are pillars of society. I see them as pirates or something out of a Dickens novel. You want to be blind to their greed and manipulation OK but a little compassion for your fellow worker would be a good thing.It's called empathy or compassion. Kirk -Original Message- From: aegent [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and Mark, I agree with some of your post but must respectfully disagree with the car-culture and rural poverty in the US argument. On insurance, the issue is who is liable the driver or the car. If the costs were fairly allocated it would fix part of the problem. Gov't. seems to make problems worse whenever they get involved. I also lived in rural america (Kentucky) and I even lived below the poverty line. These car, wealthy people, society is the fault arguments never seem to place any value on the individual decisions made by the people. Its always culture, society, or some other bad guy that caused all their problems. My view is that the only reason anyone in america is poor is by their own choice. I have heard so many arguments against getting education when I lived in rural areas. you don't need that, book learnin won't make you smarter, got book learning but no common sense, Why you can stay here and work for less than minimum wage, you don't need that college. Having been below the poverty line and having worked my way up to middle class, I have no liberal guilt. I am happy to talk to people about how to resolve this but too many people have bought into the socialist view that the reason they are poor is because someone else took their share of the pie. Personal and individual decisions are a major and possibly the most significant part of this equation. Been there, done that.
RE: [biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and
US In Denial As Poverty Rises by Ed Vulliamy The Guardian November 02, 2002 http://zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=10ItemID=2575 ... Statistics released last month by the government census bureau show that for the first time in 10 years the number of people caught in the poverty trap has suddenly increased. Unemployment is up from 4.2 per cent in 2000 to 5.7 per cent last year. While the middle class shrinks, the numbers living below the official poverty line of $18,104 a year for a family of four has shot up to 33 million - from 11.3 to 11.7 per cent. That's the first increase since 1992. ... The proportion of children without health cover has increased from 63.8 per cent to 67.1 per cent. The poverty rate for children in the US is worse than in 19 'rich' countries, according to a study by the University of Michigan. ... Hard times á One in 11 families, one in nine Americans, and one in six children are officially poor. á The most affluent fifth of the population received half of all household income last year. The poorest fifth got 3.5 per cent. á The official poverty line is an income of $18,104 pa (£11,570) for a family of four. A single parent of two working full-time for a minimum wage would make $10,712 (£6,846). á 40 per cent of homeless men are veterans. á Up to a fifth of America's food, worth $31bn, goes to waste each year, with 130lb of food per person ending up in landfills. [more] See also: http://www.bread.org/hungerbasics/faq.html U.S. and world hunger facts information - Bread.org - Action, education, research, statistics Bread for the World is a nationwide Christian citizens movement seeking justice for the world's hungry people by lobbying our nation's decision makers. Hunger Basics FAQ Hunger Facts: International Domestic Frequently Asked Questions 1. Is hunger really a problem in the United States? 2. Who is going hungry in the U.S.? 3. Aren't most of the people going to soup kitchens the ones to blame for their situation? 4. If people are willing to work, why are they still at risk of going hungry? 5. How does hunger affect children? 6. What does the global picture look like? 7. How can we prevent starvation, since bad weather and drought are obviously beyond our control? 8. A story of hunger in Bangladesh 9. A story of hunger in Honduras 10. Is it really possible to end hunger in the world? http://www.bread.org/hungerbasics/domestic.html Hunger persists in the U.S. * Thirty-three million people-including 13 million children-live in households that experience hunger or the risk of hunger. This represents one in ten households in the United States (10 percent). 1 * 3.1 percent of U.S. households experience hunger: they frequently skip meals or eat too little, sometimes going without food for a whole day. Nearly 8.5 million people, including 2.9 million children, live in these homes. 1 * 7.3 percent of U.S. households are at risk of hunger: they have lower quality diets or must resort to seeking emergency food because they cannot always afford the food they need. 24.7 million people, including 9.9 million children, live in these homes. 1 * Preschool and school-aged children who experience severe hunger have higher levels of chronic illness, anxiety and depression, and behavior problems than children with no hunger, according to a recent study. 2 People facing hunger are increasingly turning to the Food Stamp Program for assistance in feeding their families. * Following years of decline, participation in the food stamp program has been on the rise over the past two years. In August 2002 (the last month for which data are available) 19.7 million people participated in the food stamp program. March 2002 was the first month since July 1998 in which the number of food stamp participants exceeded 19 million. 3 * While it is not possible to determine what caused the increase in participation from the data available, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities argues it is likely that the majority of the increase can be attributed to the economic downturn. Due to loss of employment and income, more families probably became eligible for the food stamp program. 3 Churches and charities are straining to serve rising requests for food from their pantries and soup kitchens, especially from working people. * The U.S. Conference of Mayors reports that in 2002 requests for emergency food assistance increased an average of 19 percent. The study also found that 48 percent of those requesting emergency food assistance were members of families with children and that 38 percent of adults requesting such assistance were employed. High housing costs, low-paying jobs, unemployment, and the economic downturn led the list of reasons contributing to the rise. 4 * Just over half the cities surveyed in the Mayors' report said they are not able to provide an adequate quantity of food to those in need. And nearly two-thirds of
[biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and
kirk, Yep, I did leave but that was not my only option. It was also my choice and my wifes choice. My decisions have largely got me here through hard work (I worked two jobs for many years). I believe that anyone anywhere in the US can be successful if they believe in themselves and work hard for themselves. Hey, if I can do it, anyone can. As to the evils of corporate greed. I often hear workers complain about how shabbily thay are treated but they don't seem to want the bosses job. Nor do they want to quit and start their own company. As to the Dickens novel, try spending a week in a third world country and you will appreciate that most of these arguments in the US are just averice showing its ugly head. Most of our wage slaves and our poor have hot cold running water, electricity, color televisions, microwave ovens, cars, and other luxuries. In Mumbai (Bombay) alone, I was told that there are 2 million people who will never have a roof over their heads, nor can they hope to. I saw them sleeping on the street and sidewalks. I saw working class housing that in the US would be considered a slum. We simly do not have any idea how good we've got it. Maybe we should talk about the evils of socialism and how it makes everyone poor? As to the top dog making big bucks, well until I'm ready to step into his job and take on the headaches, he can have it and I feel no jealousy over his takings. I do however get riled if the takings are not above board and obtained through lying, cheating, and stealing as we seem to be seeing in a very small number of companies. We do not see that across the board as the media would have us believe. I'm just saying that we all have options in the US. We can start our own companies and you will find that many small companies treat people well. You can do it and treat your staff as you see fit. The last company I worked for the President did not make any more than and possibly less than the top paid technical staff (things were tight). I am always finding ppl who complain about the top dog but are not willing to do the work the boss did to get there. I know what it takes, I'm not willing and he/she can have the big bucks. Its not worth it to me, my needs are simple. td SNIP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Rumsfeld warns on Iraq arms
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2799705.stm BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Wednesday, 26 February, 2003 Rumsfeld warns on Iraq arms Iraq's neighbours will stay out of a war, Rumsfeld predicted Baghdad's chemical and biological weapons capabilities are likely to be more lethal now than in the 1991 Gulf War, US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said. [more] Governments versus Peoples by Scott Burchill February 26, 2003 http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=40ItemID=3132 ... More ominously, according to the report of a 1994 US Senate Banking Committee, the United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual-use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programs. According to the report, this assistance included chemical warfare-agent precursors; chemical warfare-agent production facility plans and technical drawings; chemical warfare-filling equipment; biological warfare-related materials; missile fabrication equipment and missile system guidance equipment. These technologies were sent to Iraq until December 1989, 20 months after the gassing of Halabja. In February 1989, John Kelly, US Assistant Secretary of State, flew to Baghdad to tell Saddam Hussein that you are a source for moderation in the region, and the United States wants to broaden her relationship with Iraq. This was eleven months after Halabja... [more] http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/s092002.html Did the U.S. Help Saddam Acquire Biological Weapons? The Record On U.S. Germ Exports To Iraq See: U.S. Germ Exports To Iraq.pdf http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsd/nsd26.pdf Read what Sen. Robert Byrd, D-WV, put in the Congressional Record concerning the United States government's export of biological weapons ingredients to Iraq more than a decade ago. When asked by Byrd about this history as recounted in a recent Newsweek article, the current Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who met with Saddam Hussein as an envoy for prior administrations, declined to directly answer Byrd's questions. In this now declassified 1989 White House document, read how the administration of George Herbert Walker Bush felt Iraq should be cultivated as a strategic and political ally -- even though there were fears about Saddam using germ warfare weapons. Congressional Record: September 20, 2002 (Senate) Page S8987-S8998 [more] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP SNIP Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Could be, I just think of all the goofy sports terms that people use and that concept comes to mind. Oh, sports! Well... What sport do they use Sport Utility Vehicles in? Full contact competitive Commuting? LOL Best Keith Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] US-UK-Iraq disturbing war facts, was: Rumsfeld warns on Iraq arms
Disturbing facts around the US/UK war in Iraq, as I see them. Judge by yourself and please give me unemotional arguments and parameters to change my view, I would be very happy it I could find comfort in the actions now suggested by US/UK. I cannot mobilize such confidence in Bush/Blair, that would help me to support a Gulf War II and the situation disturbs me very much. Please try to be factual, because I will not be convinced by name calling or non factual arguments and it will not help me. If I could belive in something that will happen with or without my opinion, I would sleep and feel better, if I could belive in it and that it is a cause worth all the lifes that will be taken, innocent and not innocent. One very positive thing that is likely to happen, regardless of war or not war, is a mobilization of resources to produce biofuels. It would give a tremendous boost for energy saving and alternative energy sources. Unfortunately or maybe by design, it would also boost utilization of nuclear and coal. Iraq is govern by the elected Baath party and it's elected leader Saddam Hussein. It is common opinion in the Western world that those elections was non democratic and that it is in reality a dictatorship. It is also a common opinion that the regime does not respect human rights and are using violence to suppress the people. The descriptions of the ruthless regime are probably very close to reality. Rule by terror might be correct as description of Iraq and many other nations in the world, including the current Israeli rule over the Palestinian territories. Some people point at the lack of consistence in the US policies. It is samples of that the regime protected themselves by political executions and disappearances. The question of the many disappearances of Kuwaiti citizens is also a very important issue. The same with Iranian prisoners of war. It can be a very strong case for war crimes against the Iraqi regime and its brutalities. Iraq, because of the war with Iran and the gulf war, is a very crippled nation. Close to 90% of the population consist of children under 16, women and elderly. Less than 20% of the population have the rights to vote. Iraq have suffered for more than a decade from one of the few effective blockades in the world history. It is reports from credible international help organizations, that the blockade have caused substantial death and reduction of quality of life in Iraq. Iraq does not have a history of International terrorism, compared with other Middle East countries. Iraq has not been proven to support or have links to International terrorism. It is proven that Iraq have supported the Palestine people in their uprising against the occupying Israel. Especially their financial support of families of suicide bombers. The majority of Iraq's WMD capabilities was delivered by US during the Iraq - Iran conflict. Very little was a result of stand alone development in Iraq. The Iraq - Iran war was very much induced, encouraged and directly supported by US. Us also assisted in this war by providing military hardware, material, chemical and biological weapons to Iraq. The war with Iran is the only undisputable militarily conflict that Iraq had with an other country. All countries and International institutions agree that UN managed to destroy 95% of all WMDs and WMD programs prior to 1998. At that junction only 5% remained. The present discussion of WMD in Iraq concerns the remaining 5% and what they might have produced since 1998. Kuwait was never recognized by Iraq as a sovereign state and neighbor, they regarded them as a renegade province. Even if the world community recognized Kuwait as a state, it can be some understanding in that Iraq's position of that Kuwait was an internal matter. Iraq have the second largest known oil reserves in the world and it is believed that they, when fully explored, will have the largest oil reserves in the world. If US was solely to use it's own oil, the only have known oil reserves for 10+ years (R/P value) of consumption. US have some hopes for finding more oil in Alaska, but it is very unlikely that this will solve US dependence of importing oil. It is proven that the Iraqi regime have locked out US and UK oil companies from participating or getting development contracts regarding the Iraqi oil reserves. Contracts have been signed and approved by the Iraqi congress with Russia and China. Contracts with France and Germany are signed and pending approval. Contracts with Spain and other nations are under discussions. One very dangerous and hostile move by Iraq, was to suggest an oil blockade to force a solution of the Israeli - Palestine conflict. They even themselves tried to front it by closing deliveries of oil deliveries under the food for oil program. It is after this incident that the urgency of regime change aroused in US. An oil blockade would have disastrous effects
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
Hey Motie, I like it! Can we get it in the Xtreme games next year? And, I don't want to see any of those wimpy nerf computers or SUVs used either. td --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP SNIP Names get created like BioDiesel and sometimes they stick. Some names don't. Could be a television thing, commentators are always saying dumb things that catch on. If it catches on then maybe it wasn't dumb. Could be, I just think of all the goofy sports terms that people use and that concept comes to mind. Oh, sports! Well... What sport do they use Sport Utility Vehicles in? Full contact competitive Commuting? LOL Best Keith Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] US-UK-Iraq disturbing war facts, was: Rumsfeld warns on Iraq arms
Hi Hakan Disturbing facts around the US/UK war in Iraq, as I see them. Disturbing, yes. A good analysis. Here's a bit more to distuirb you... http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15ItemID=3148 Donald Rumsfeld And Poison Gas by Stephen Kerr February 27, 2003 ... It may seem strange that the man who demands the complete disarmament of Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons would actively plan to use them himself. Judge by yourself and please give me unemotional arguments and parameters to change my view, I would be very happy it I could find comfort in the actions now suggested by US/UK. I cannot mobilize such confidence in Bush/Blair, that would help me to support a Gulf War II and the situation disturbs me very much. Please try to be factual, because I will not be convinced by name calling or non factual arguments and it will not help me. If I could belive in something that will happen with or without my opinion, I would sleep and feel better, if I could belive in it and that it is a cause worth all the lifes that will be taken, innocent and not innocent. One very positive thing that is likely to happen, regardless of war or not war, is a mobilization of resources to produce biofuels. It would give a tremendous boost for energy saving and alternative energy sources. Unfortunately or maybe by design, it would also boost utilization of nuclear and coal. Iraq is govern by the elected Baath party and it's elected leader Saddam Hussein. It is common opinion in the Western world that those elections was non democratic and that it is in reality a dictatorship. It is also a common opinion that the regime does not respect human rights and are using violence to suppress the people. The descriptions of the ruthless regime are probably very close to reality. Rule by terror might be correct as description of Iraq and many other nations in the world, including the current Israeli rule over the Palestinian territories. Some people point at the lack of consistence in the US policies. It is samples of that the regime protected themselves by political executions and disappearances. The question of the many disappearances of Kuwaiti citizens is also a very important issue. The same with Iranian prisoners of war. It can be a very strong case for war crimes against the Iraqi regime and its brutalities. Iraq, because of the war with Iran and the gulf war, is a very crippled nation. Close to 90% of the population consist of children under 16, women and elderly. Less than 20% of the population have the rights to vote. Iraq have suffered for more than a decade from one of the few effective blockades in the world history. It is reports from credible international help organizations, that the blockade have caused substantial death and reduction of quality of life in Iraq. It's killed hundreds of thousands of children, apart from anything else. However, from my point of view, with a great interest in food security issues, there's been a very interesting response in Iraq to the blockade, that I don't see anybody discussing: The ration program is regarded by the United Nations as the largest and most efficient food-distribution system of its kind in the world. It has also become what is perhaps Saddam's most strategic tool to maintain popular support over the last decade. The Guardian Weekly 20-3-0213 Washington Post Extra rations quell Iraqi discontent Saddam spends billions subsidizing cheap food in effort to avoid rebellion Rajiv Chandrasekaran in Baghdad Once a month, Esther Yawo strolls to a neighborhood market to pick up groceries for her family of five. She usually returns with 180 pounds of flour, rice, sugar, cooking oil, white beans, chickpeas and tea, plus 16 bars of soap. Total price: 60 cents. In a colossal exercise in public welfare and social control, President Saddam Hussein's government distributes the same monthly provisions at the same low price across Iraq, a country of 26 million people. The handouts have kept food on the table for the Yawos and most other Iraqi families, who can no longer afford to purchase staples at market prices because of debilitating U.N. economic sanctions imposed after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990. The ration program is regarded by the United Nations as the largest and most efficient food-distribution system of its kind in the world. It has also become what is perhaps Saddam's most strategic tool to maintain popular support over the last decade. The United States and other Western nations had hoped the sanctions, which devastated Iraq's once-prosperous economy, would lead Iraqis to rebel against their leader or, at the least, compel him to fully cooperate with U.N. inspectors hunting for weapons of mass destruction. But Saddam has held firm in large part by using food to stem discontent with the pain of sanctions, employing a massive network of trucks, computers, warehouses and neighborhood distributors to provide
Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] New California Biodiesel plant
Nope, not me. I think that it was someone else. I had some contention with SSPC, but that was about all. I did call BAT yesterday to find out the opening date and they were reluctant. I also was trying to dig for the 'special' process they were hearlding, and it was just single stage continuous. I thought they might be trying the supercitical method, but I don't think so from what they indicated. I also thought they might be using some sort of acid/base method, but again I really don't think so. James Slayden On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, murdoch wrote: It's nice to see, but let's be careful. Going by the URL, we can see this is reconstituted B.A.T. international. I am less cynical about them than others (I think at times they meant well) but I wouldn't go rushing out to buy any stock in the new company. The first time I ever heard about SSPC, Southern States Power (now declined to 1/2 cent per share) was from a person at BAT, as SSPC apparently had something to do with them. At the time I think there was some petroleum claim in the Gulf of Mexico which SSPC had something to do with. Later we see SSPC supposedly wanting to do the biofuel thing here in California and I guess there's been some effort, so good. But I'm just saying: let's see the Green Star production numbers, when they have production. B.A.T. had every invention in sight that was going to change the world, including an 80 mpg diesel metro, powered by some strange engine advance, a wonderful super duper lubricant, etc. No, they weren't just a scam. I personally visited a plant in Mexico that they'd set up to build cars, and indeed it was there and they were doing their best, if naively. But I think they were too ambitious, not focused enough and there were many bad signs. I always took a company about to save the world with six different inventions to be a bad sign. I do think they were at times *very* guilty of some of the worst sort of stock promotion. One bad sign was the el-bizarro amount of posting on stock-discussion boards about B.A.T. Later on this also was characteristic of SSPC (what a surprise). I didn't know this until there was a story in the Wall Street Journal about alternative energy stock scams taking advantage of the energy issues, particularly the crisis in California. The Journal story pointed out that there were dozens of thousands of posts about SSPC on a stock discussion board, although the company only had reported revenues of something like $32,000. Sheesh. The President replied that he agreed with the reporter that the amount of interest in the company was not commensurate with its activities. I replied on my web page that I felt compelled to put them and BAT both into a bit of an Alternative Energy Hall of Shame, given that the President of SSPC and-or his secretary had taken compensation in SEVEN figures for a company that had about $32,000 in revenues. So anyway, by that time BAT was not any longer part of them, but I am just skeptical until I see otherwise that this new incarnation of Mr. Lastella's will prove fruitful. However, I don't take it for granted that it won't. I met him a couple of times, and Bill Wasson several times, and I think they had some technical knowledge and some desire to put together a company. They need to focus and do it though, and cut out the stock market focus and manipulation. Just my opinion. James, didn't you or someone else mention something about buying some biofuel near San Diego from Bill Wasson? Sometimes they'd balance out the chance to write them off by actually doing something that took business competence and follow-through. MM Largest one in the nation (apparently): http://www.baat.com/pr03-02-24.htm James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, aegent [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Motie, I like it! Can we get it in the Xtreme games next year? And, I don't want to see any of those wimpy nerf computers or SUVs used either. td LOL! It's already on TV in several different formats, usually involving cameras mounted in Police Cars and/or Helicopters. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and
On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 03:24, you wrote: Mark, Having been below the poverty line and having worked my way up to middle class, I have no liberal guilt. I am happy to talk to people about how to resolve this but too many people have bought into the socialist view that the reason they are poor is because someone else took their share of the pie. Personal and individual decisions are a major and possibly the most significant part of this equation. Been there, done that. From what I saw, the personal auto is the great enabler of the poor. It allows people to get to jobs that pay well but would be too far to walk to or even bicycle to. Public transit makes a lot of sense in high population density areas but it is not practical in rural areas. Envision a usable public transit system in rural areas. Is this a once a day bus or an hourly bus? How much would it cost? Who would pay for it? Could it even be paid for (i.e. is there enough money anywhere to build this system). td All I can say to your comments on rural public transport is Hogwash! I lived in Sweden in 1985. Their population density is low in country areas, yet there was quite good public transport available in medium sized provincial towns. I worked with people that travelled to work by PT at some centres in Sweden. Sweden is a Socialist led country , so welfare minded - but I disagree that everyone should be responsible for all their own welfare. There has to be Govt assistance to even up the living costs between city country, otherwise the country will be more de-populated. Careful help with indrastructure, sympathetic use of tax laws for disadvantaged areas can help build the prosperity so eventually decrease the reliance on this Govt help. This is one major failing of the current worldwide Govt push for less Govt intervention in local infrastructure. (This has been a real failure in Australia, where the Victorian govt which was previously running the buses in Melbourne at a controllable loss, sold the system to a Private Co, who then 'rationalised' services, lost heaps of money, then asked the Govt to bail them out!) regards Doug Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: glycerol seperation and clouds
5/40 = 12.5% so he is about right there. It should be from ~10 - 15% depending on feedstock, chemicals, and processing for a single stage batch process. On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Keith Addison wrote: mark and keith - thanks for the advice. I am going to go down to the lab today and run several 1 liter tests, including reprocessing and the oil wash (intersesting idea!). I will report on what I find. What is the philosophy behind mixing the glycerine back in after seperation? and might that also be a help in my situation? Aleks suggests it in the acid-base two-stage method (but not an essential step): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Foolproof biodiesel process See Step #18. Is it possible that 5 gallons glycerine (1/8 volume) seperation on 40 gallons oil is normal? Should be about 11%, but I think that's just the glyc, and you're probably talking of everything, aren't you? - the stuff that drops out at the bottom of the tank, glycerine, soap (from FFA), catalyst and about half the excess methanol. But 5 in 40 could be right. What would be the consequence of burning fuel in an engine if there were more glycerine to drop out? Have a look at this previous message about contaminants: http://nnytech.net/~archive2/index.php?view=18968list=BIOFUEL Thanks for the follow up - more soon on my trials. Yes please! Best Keith Best, Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
or get diesel #2 cost competitive with BD!! ;-) Let's see the real price of diesel #2 ... On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, aegent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few years ago I tried to convince a co-worker that he should at least look at the Diesel since it was available in the car he was looking at. The arguments he had were dirty, smelly, get it on your hands, get it in the car, and get it on your clothes. B100 fixes one of the most common objections to Diesel. Now if we can get it to be cost competitive with gasoline (not D2 as the argument is to gasoline car owners). td --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, hjackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just filled up with biodiesel at West Valley Oil this morning in San Jose. Couldn't be easier. Just drive up to the pump (there are 2 hoses available), pump your B100 biodiesel, and pay for it in the office. No extra charge to use my ATM card. I don't know about any surcharge for credit cards. Price is $2.79 a gallon for B100, but it feel's great driving a sustainable fuel vehicle. I still had about 1/2 a tank of #2 diesel in the car, so I guess I'm running a B50 blend. Bob Brown at West Valley Oil told me that they are currently using about 50% virgin and 50% waste vegetable oil sourced biodiesel. He says that there is more btu capability out of the waste vegetable oil source, and I'm not sure if it is wishful thinking or not, but on my drive home on the freeway, I felt more power out of my little 1.6L VW diesel Westy. The proof of the impression is that I found myself in the rare atmosphere of the fast lane doing 70 MPH Formerly 65 on a GOOD day! (maybe I had a tailwind) Pretty simple to get there. From the North, take 280 to the 10th / 11th Street exit and turn right on 10th Street. Travel about 10 blocks and it's on your left just after Spartan Stadium. The address is 1790 S. 10th. I ran into one other biodiesel customer that heard about this station from your posting just as I was telling Bob that I think he's going to get a lot of business from people like me who have been looking for a local source of publicly available biodiesel for a while. I hope that people let others know about this station. It is great to have an other source than the Olympian cardlock station in S.F. and West Valley Oil should be rewarded with lots of business for taking the initiative to make B100 available to the general public. Olympian Oil (and others), are you listening? Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] new jaguar diesel
For those of us with more $ than cents (pun intended), look in the Jaguar showrooms next year for the 2005 S-Type with it's 3.0 liter V6 Diesel. Mommy, why does that Jag smell like French fries? http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/yohn As an aside, Low Sulfur diesel will be showing up at the pumps in early 2006, so biodiesel will be a happy high lubricity, high cetane enhancement. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
I will be keeping a record of my milage on B100. My baseline for Dinodiesel #2 is 23.3 mpg average over 17 records, highest mpg= 26.6. The one possible dificulty is that I live about 15 miles from the station that sells Biodiesel. If I'm concious enough to plan my fillups in advance I will be filling up with biodiesel as much as I can. If I find myself in a fuel bind, I'll be poping into a regular diesel pump, but I'll try to keep records on the milage between biodiesel fillups and subtract those out of the data. By the way, this fuel does not smell of chemicals and is light amber in color. It smells sort of sweet. The odor coming out of the tailpipe smells clean, as in it does not smell like I'm doing damage to my lungs being around this stuff. I like it. Henry --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope that people let others know about this station. It is great to have an other source than the Olympian cardlock station in S.F. and West Valley Oil should be rewarded with lots of business for taking the initiative to make B100 available to the general public. Olympian Oil (and others), are you listening? Henry Hi: If you get the chance, could you keep some data for a few tanks full of regular petroleum diesel in your car, as to mileage per gallon, and then, after you have transitioned entirely to B100 (i.e. a tank or two past the transition of B50 as you noted) keep some data for the mileage of the B100 you are getting, so we can have an idea? If there is any difference in mileage, this would adjust our view of the $ per mile, which is so important to others. I think all this needs is a notebook in your car where you can reset the trip odometer at each refill and note the exact number of gallons it took to refill (i.e., the amount you used). Over a few tanks, this should give some somewhat useful data. Long-term project suggestion for you or someone else. If it's too much trouble, thanks in any case for the report! To be honest, it's the first time I've personally heard of someone being able to do what you've done, in the States or maybe anywhere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Web Hosting makes it easy to build a professional web site. Sign up today and get free set-up, domain name, and more (up to a $100 value) http://us.click.yahoo.com/m3JvCD/wCpFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
Murdoch, It was my tongue and my cheek, and it has generated a lot of spurious hot air and entertainment, for which I feel no guilt. To clarify the picture somewhat I have a Sii Land Rover, 1961, 2.25 litre diesel and about 25mpg, a Land Rover 90,1989, 2.5tdi at about 32mpg and a Range Rover,2000, 2.5 bmw td engine doing 30 mpg. All have earned their keep moving beehives to follow the crops and earning me a living. Now semi retired I see no need to change vehicles, even though they will get little use other than pulling my glider trailer around. Damn, now someone will demonize gliding as a frivolous practice and demand that all would be soaring pilots be put down at birth. I good diversionary subject could be Obesity. This one will satisfy dear Hakan since obesity kills ( and kills twice over) Others will be happy since it is principally a US problem and it is on theme since all those fast food outlets supply us with WVO. Is the collective conscience up to this one? Ken - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me . My 2 cents: Awhile back someone in the biofuel group mentioned in a tongue-in-cheek way something about his Land Rover and whether that is an SUV. Indeed, it is something I think of as a true SUV, in the sense that I so often have seen them on TV being used in very challenging environments. In any case, I want to say that while there are some complexities to the SUV debate, I am not categorically anti-SUV and I think that many many of us are not, and the mention of the Land Rover was a reminder of this. One thing is this: I see some of the SUVs as an attempt to return to a time when vehicles were designed with a certain spaciousness and style, much as the vehicles of the 20s or 30s (I'm not quite clear when this golden age would technically fall). I think we all tend to stop and look at one of the really old cars if it goes by, and one of the thoughts is but why do today's cars sometimes seem to lack that elegance? Now, we see anything from a Prowler to a Honda Element to some of the other SUVS exploring some interesting style trends. If you need or want space, then you need or want space. I mean, if I had kids to haul around and-or equipment and-or just wanted the space, and could afford it, I'd probably go for a small or mid-sized SUV, or consider it. I wouldn't go for the larger ones, because I think safe driving is a critical consideration, and I do not believe it would be easy enough to conduct them safely in day-to-day heavy traffic. So, as a practical consideration, I'd pretty much rule them out, unless they were just really necessary and the area that I lived in made them somewhat more ok to drive (such as a rural area without a lot of bumper-to-bumper traffic). As I said, I think there are complex issues involved. The insurance companies do not seem to have reacted swiftly to the seemingly increasing knowledge that SUVs appear to do a larger amount of damage (than many other vehicles) to other vehicles in an accident, so even if they may, under certain circumstances bear out the idea of mass and design aiding in the protection of internal occupants, there is still the idea of the costs of liability of these vehicles. There is both the issue of the higher frame, and also the tendency to slice through another vehicle rather than giving way. I haven't read a lot, but pending more knowledge on it, I take it that they do a pretty good amount of damage. There is also of course the higher-center-of-gravity issue which does cause them, in a way, to be less safe to their own internal occupants. I don't know how much the Insurance adjusters have taken into account these various matters. Driving as a part of a worldwide fleet of vehicles that gets on the road all the time involves cooperation both at the micro level (you go, then I'll go) and in various levels of traffic and engineering design. This includes the issue of setting standards that seem to make sense as to rules and regulations for vehicle design and operation. For example, for some particularly large vehicles, special licenses are required to operate them. Another example I would think is that if we standardize a general height to which most passenger vehicles conform, then perhaps safety is improved since when vehicles collide (which they do every day) they might perhaps be less likely to intrude into each others' passenger compartments. Anyway, while I resent the cavalier and dismissive attitude of folks who respond to any concern at all about oil consumption as though it's not worth considering and as though it's not only a right but a responsibility to use as much fuel as possible, this does not mean that I think those folks don't have
RE: [biofuel]Diesel Catalyzed exhaust muffler
In the past. There was a thread, about someone looking for a diesel catalyst converter. The person wanted to further reduce their CO. Today I ran across the Fleet Guard Inc. Company internet site. No small company and it is own by Cummins.I thought someone could use the information. Harley http://www.fleetguardnelson.com/fleet/en/products/en_prod_ems_docatalyst.jsp Catalyzed Exhaust Muffler Performance Capabilities and Experience Oxidation Catalyst Control Capabilities a.. PM -- 20-50% Reduction b.. CO and HC -- 90% c.. Harmful HCs -- 70% Oxidation Catalyst Operating Experience a.. 30,000 Urban Buses in the U.S. and Europe b.. 8,000 HD Vehicles in Mexico c.. Hong Kong Is Retrofitting 2,000 Urban Buses and 50,000 medium-duty diesel vehicles d.. 250,000 Off-Road Engines e.. 1,500,000 Class 1 2 Vehicles (Pick-Ups) f.. 5,000,000 LDD vehicles in Europe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
Hi Ken B, At 10:48 PM 3/4/2003 +, you wrote: I good diversionary subject could be Obesity. This one will satisfy dear Hakan since obesity kills ( and kills twice over) It is a problem for Europeans and for me too, I am smoking and like good food. Have some overweight and am aware of that in my age I would be a high risk insurance object. I try to look after my eating and drinking and if I have to do it, it should be quality stuff. It is very seldom I am persuaded to eat at a well known US hamburger chain, mostly when young people insist. The other day was one of this rare occasions and I could not refrain myself of making the reflection that US already started the chemical warfare a long time ago. This places are against the Chemical Weapons Convention. Otherwise we had a good day. Hakan Others will be happy since it is principally a US problem and it is on theme since all those fast food outlets supply us with WVO. Is the collective conscience up to this one? Ken Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] car-culture and rural poverty in the US was Re: SUV's and
Wow, I can't wait to really respond to this post! holy hogwash, Batman! sorry kids, I'm way, way too tired to do it justice after about 24 hours of moving shop in preparation for the landlord visit to our illegal warehouse living situation (the Visit of the Lord got put off another day after all that stress, so we're all still sitting here biting our nails about whether we're gonna get evicted (we did some seriously illegal building that he hasn't seen yet and there's no way to hide the fact that we;re living in a commercial space). anyway I'll give you a piece of my mind (no it ain't going to be a flame) tomorrow. But in short, oh boy, you're so talking to the wrong person about cars being the personal enabler of the poor !!! Actually, on that note, why is it that if you mention poverty and the dreaded 'society' word (or maybe it was poverty and the dreaded 'culture' word) to some people you can almost automatically expect to start hearing people bring up or allude to your supposed middle class guilt? (he brought up the other s-word, socialism- too!) I'm FROM the extreme poverty I'm talking aobut- urban not rural in my case- but I'm not some college grad idolizing idolizing what some poor redneck in north carolina went through. Anyhow those people were my friends a few years back and I know what I'm talking about there. In my case it's also personal- it's my mother I'm talking about when I go on about car culture and lack of public transportation limiting people's choices- you messed with my momma, dude :) anyway I do know very, very first hand how badly lack of car ownership or driving ability (license or whatever) limits where you can live and how much money you make. Next installment of speech tomorrow. mark by the way I;m still not arguing against insurance, mandatory insurance, or DUI laws, etc. Im not going to be sitting there telling the parent of a kid that just ran out in front of my car that I can't pay for their medical bills. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, aegent [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, I agree with some of your post but must respectfully disagree with the car-culture and rural poverty in the US argument. On insurance, the issue is who is liable the driver or the car. If the costs were fairly allocated it would fix part of the problem. Gov't. seems to make problems worse whenever they get involved. I also lived in rural america (Kentucky) and I even lived below the poverty line. These car, wealthy people, society is the fault arguments never seem to place any value on the individual decisions made by the people. Its always culture, society, or some other bad guy that caused all their problems. My view is that the only reason anyone in america is poor is by their own choice. I have heard so many arguments against getting education when I lived in rural areas. you don't need that, book learnin won't make you smarter, got book learning but no common sense, Why you can stay here and work for less than minimum wage, you don't need that college. Having been below the poverty line and having worked my way up to middle class, I have no liberal guilt. I am happy to talk to people about how to resolve this but too many people have bought into the socialist view that the reason they are poor is because someone else took their share of the pie. Personal and individual decisions are a major and possibly the most significant part of this equation. Been there, done that. From what I saw, the personal auto is the great enabler of the poor. It allows people to get to jobs that pay well but would be too far to walk to or even bicycle to. Public transit makes a lot of sense in high population density areas but it is not practical in rural areas. Envision a usable public transit system in rural areas. Is this a once a day bus or an hourly bus? How much would it cost? Who would pay for it? Could it even be paid for (i.e. is there enough money anywhere to build this system). I used to work in downtown Denver. When I was there I used the public transit system as it only cost about 10 extra minutes to get to work. Later I contracted further south and now the trip was over two hours each way versus 45 minutes by car. Carving 4 or 5 hours out of a poor persons day is not the way to make them rich or enable them. Public transit has to address the most ridership for the most people. We keep forgetting how sparse that the US population is when compared to Europe or Japan. BTW: There is always the tractor, I've seen ppl traveling by that vehicle and that does not even require a license. td Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL
[biofuel] Separating Water from WVO
Hey, Do you have to bring the oil to boil to separate the water and WVO? Will the water separate if you just heat and mix? Just curious because I hope to use a water heater element in my processor, but it would only bring temps to 130 degree F. Any help would be appreciated. Also, does anyone know of a good substance to coat the inside of the tank, so it doesn't corrode? There was a post a few days ago talking about it, but I accidentally deleted it. Thanks. Dan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
Murdoch, It was my tongue and my cheek, and it has generated a lot of spurious hot air and entertainment, for which I feel no guilt. To clarify the picture somewhat I have a Sii Land Rover, 1961, 2.25 litre diesel and about 25mpg, a Land Rover 90,1989, 2.5tdi at about 32mpg and a Range Rover,2000, 2.5 bmw td engine doing 30 mpg. All have earned their keep moving beehives to follow the crops and earning me a living. Now semi retired I see no need to change vehicles, even though they will get little use other than pulling my glider trailer around. Damn, now someone will demonize gliding as a frivolous practice and demand that all would be soaring pilots be put down at birth. I good diversionary subject could be Obesity. This one will satisfy dear Hakan since obesity kills ( and kills twice over) Others will be happy since it is principally a US problem and it is on theme since all those fast food outlets supply us with WVO. Is the collective conscience up to this one? Ken Spurious something sure was, Mr Basterfield, but it wasn't us. There's a difference between having your tongue in your cheek and sneering, like you're doing again now. Re SUVs, you got this response, among others: http://nnytech.net/~archive2/index.php?view=21380list=BIOFUEL You ignored the substance (since it debunked you) but still found something to sneer at. Previously we'd got this jeer: If you really want to save the world why not address the fundamental human population problem, or is this just a little bit too close to reality. You got a serious response to that, and jeered at that too. Now you'd like some more such entertainment over obesity? You couldn't even get this current message right: It was my tongue and my cheek, and it has generated a lot of spurious hot air and entertainment, for which I feel no guilt. Murdoch wrote: Awhile back someone in the biofuel group mentioned in a tongue-in-cheek way something about his Land Rover and whether that is an SUV. It wasn't you, it was Jean-Leon Morin. As for your SUV (which isn't): Ken Basterfield writes: At 07:57 PM 2/22/2003 +, you wrote: I can assure you that mine doesn't kill. It is far to well behaved. Never mind keep churning out the dogma and forget the realities. Like you, you mean? I'll pass thanks. Your Range Rover is labelled an SUV in the US, but, as I'm sure you know very well, it has very little in common with a typical American SUV and shares few of the unsafety features of a typical SUV. It was designed as a highly capable off-road vehicle and is still that, first built more than 30 years ago and the basic design hasn't changed much since then. There were no SUVs 30 years ago, nor anything even remotely like them. Couldn't answer that, eh? And you are trolling, Mr Basterfield. Keith And you still are. But no longer. No guilt, no. No shame either. Is the world mad or is it just some of the other nutters we get on the page. That turned out to be you. Keith Addison List Moderator - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me . My 2 cents: Awhile back someone in the biofuel group mentioned in a tongue-in-cheek way something about his Land Rover and whether that is an SUV. Indeed, it is something I think of as a true SUV, in the sense that I so often have seen them on TV being used in very challenging environments. snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
Now semi retired I see no need to change vehicles, even though they will get little use other than pulling my glider trailer around. Damn, now someone will demonize gliding as a frivolous practice and demand that all would be soaring pilots be put down at birth. It didn't bother me. I recognized the tongue-in-cheek and I thought it was ok. It does bother me that more people will die because of some cavalier attitude on the part of some SUV buyers, but on balance, I think there are some complex issues here, and I don't simplistically dismiss SUV ownership out-of-hand as being proof of lack of common-sense conservation-mindedness or something. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:23:21 -, you wrote: I will be keeping a record of my milage on B100. My baseline for Dinodiesel #2 is 23.3 mpg average over 17 records, highest mpg= 26.6. Awesome, thx. I will look forward to this, and then we should be able to do a $ per mile cost calculation and get a sense of how much further we have to go to reach those who care about that, and nothing else. There was a newspaper article today about the national price of gas. The price per barrel has come down a few dollars, but the price at the pump is lingering (I don't think it's that surprising that there's a little lag). Of course, there's all sorts of moral outrage about gouging and so forth. But another point mentioned was the number of smaller trucker (owning something like 9 trucks or less) who have been put out of business and continue to be, when these price spikes occurr. The larger truckers also feel it, but do have better mechanisms in place apparently to pass on some of the costs. If B100 could ever be reduced enough in price to really be competitive on that basis, then it would be interesting to see if it would help these folks who are being so affected by petro-diesel costs. AT the pump down the street here, #2 is about $1.95, so it sounds like you're at about an 80 cent premium, if your #2 is around the same. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Old style - was [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption
There's a picture of one here: http://members.tripod.com/cruzzencarz78/bigcar/37ChC.htm 1937 Chevrolet Coupe Well, exactly, I mean just taking a quick look at it, it has *style* man. I missed that entire era, but as I was saying, I think some of the SUV thing is a return to a sort of hold-on-a-second we don't need to drive amoeba-shaped vehicles around just to cheat the wind philosophy. I think older cars fare better in certain climates. In upstate NY, where I'm from, we had some salting of the roads in winters and I think this would contribute to shortening the lifetime of vehicles. Now that I'm in So-Cal (not that much longer) the first day I was here I could see that there seemed to be some really cool-looking old cars around. I think there was some pride-of-ownership to certain neighborhoods, but there was also the more benign overall climate. Yes, there's salt from the sea, but on balance cars seem to fare somewhat better here (people too? an interesting scientific question) As to planned obsolescence that you mention, it's a nasty thing and the sort of thing I can't mention without thinking I'm being paranoid, but I do believe they practice it. I think engines could be made to last longer, if they spent more. I also think it's a point in favor of EVs, in that with fewer moving parts perhaps they'd last a very long time (with every-once-in-awhile battery pack replacements). But on the general topic of SUVs, I want to reitterate that if we take a hard look at the attitudes of many of the activists, some of us are just not as dead-set against them for the simplistic reasons sometimes offered. I'm not a fan precisely in the sense that it does strike me as odd to take a 5 mile drive to the market in a giant behemoth vehicle, and there are myriad safety issues in sharing the roads with smaller vehicles (heck, why don't we all just drive tanks to work?) but they seem to have their role and for my money, I suppose a Jeep Cherokee looks better than an old station wagon. The last major-manufacturer EV offered in California very popular with the few able to get it.. until recently cancelled was a small SUV by the way. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: SUV's and gas consumption Was: excuse me .........
Hi Ken B, At 10:48 PM 3/4/2003 +, you wrote: I good diversionary subject could be Obesity. This one will satisfy dear Hakan since obesity kills ( and kills twice over) It is a problem for Europeans and for me too, I am smoking and like good food. Have some overweight and am aware of that in my age I would be a high risk insurance object. I try to look after my eating and drinking and if I have to do it, it should be quality stuff. It is very seldom I am persuaded to eat at a well known US hamburger chain, mostly when young people insist. The other day was one of this rare occasions and I could not refrain myself of making the reflection that US already started the chemical warfare a long time ago. This places are against the Chemical Weapons Convention. Otherwise we had a good day. Hakan Hi Hakan He's just trolling, take no notice. He'll take no notice of these, but have a look, very interesting: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15119 America: The Fattest Country (Review of Greg Critser's book Fat Land: How Americans Became the Fattest People in the World) http://www.paho.org/English/DPI/100/100feature30.htm The Faces of Poverty: Malnourished, Hungry and... Obese? (Debunks the noxious idea that so many poor people can't really be poor at all because they're fat and can obviously afford to over-eat) http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/press/rollingstone1.html Rolling Stone magazine (USA), Issue 794, September 3rd 1998 Fast-Food Nation: The True Cost Of America's Diet By National Magazine Award winner Eric Schlosser (Long but good!) Best Keith Others will be happy since it is principally a US problem and it is on theme since all those fast food outlets supply us with WVO. Is the collective conscience up to this one? Ken Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
aegent wrote: Hey Motie, I like it! Can we get it in the Xtreme games next year? And, I don't want to see any of those wimpy nerf computers or SUVs used either. LOL! It's already on TV in several different formats, usually involving cameras mounted in Police Cars and/or Helicopters. Motie I don't know how true this is but the USA Fox 24 hour news channel televises this regularly. __ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] US-UK-Iraq disturbing war facts, was: Rumsfeldwarns on Iraq arms
Just a little more to add about a Study in Hypocrisy regarding the Chemical Weapons Convention. Written February 1998 February 1998 February 1998 February 1998 The United States vs. Iraq -- A Study in Hypocrisy by William Blum We have heard that a half million children have died, said 60 Minutes reporter Lesley Stahl, speaking of US sanctions against Iraq. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And -- and you know, is the price worth it? Her guest, in May 1996, U.N. Ambassador Madeleine Albright, responded: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it. Today, Secretary of State Albright travels around the world to gather support for yet more bombing of Iraq. The price, apparently, is still worth it. The price is of course being paid solely by the Iraqi people -- a million or so men, women and children, dead and a previously well-off nation plunged into poverty, disease, and malnutrition from the previous bombings and seven years of sanctions. Their crime? They have a leader who refuses to cede all sovereignty to the United States (acting under its usual United Nations cover) which demands that every structure in Iraq, including the presidential palaces, be available for inspection for weapons of mass destruction. After more than six years of these inspections, and significant destruction of stocks of forbidden chemical, biological, and nuclear weapon material, as well as weapons research and development programs, the UN team still refuses to certify that Iraq is clean enough. Inasmuch as the country is larger than California, it's understandable that the inspectors can not be certain that all prohibited weapons have been uncovered. It's equally understandable that Iraq claims that the United States can, and will, continue to find some excuse not to give Iraq the certification needed to end the sanctions. Indeed, President Clinton has said more than once that the U.S. will not allow sanctions to be lifted as long as Saddam Hussein remains in power. It can be said that the United States has inflicted more vindictive punishment and ostracism upon Iraq than upon Germany or Japan after World War 2. The Saddam Hussein regime must wonder at the high (double) standard set by Washington. Less than a year ago, the U.S. Senate passed an act to implement the Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons and on Their Destruction (Short title: Chemical Weapons Convention), an international treaty which has been ratified by more than 100 nations in its five-year life. The Senate act, Section 307, stipulates that the President may deny a request to inspect any facility in the United States in cases where the President determines that the inspection may pose a threat to the national security interests of the United States. Saddam has asked for no more than that for Iraq. Presumably, under the Senate act, the White House, Pentagon, etc. would be off limits, as Saddam insists his presidential palaces should be, as well as the military unit responsible for his personal security, which an American colonel demanded to visit. Section 303 further states http://members.aol.com/bblum6/usvsiraq.htm ___ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
