Re: [biofuels-biz] questions from New Zealand
Dear Chanti and Prof. AK, So pleased to hear that you both enjoyed New Zealand! Perhaps you could ask your friendly pig farmer to contact me so I can put him in touch with biodiesels and universities who are active in New Zealand at present. Because New Zealand is the largest manufacture of methanol in the southern hemisphere, he should find it fairly easy to get one major ingredient. We also make quite a lot of ethanol from dairy waste (mainly lactose) but that (IMO) sensibly goes into making gin! The handling, transport and storage of these materials is regulated (of course) by the Department of Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) and the Dangerous Goods Act amongst several others. One interesting feature of diesel usage in New Zealand is that heavy commercial road transport is required to have a tamper-proof hub-meter so that they pay a tax on kilometres of road they have travelled. (Why should other road users subsidise the operation of commercial trucking ?) Smaller diesel powered vehicles are required to pay a road tax BEFORE they travel those costly kilometres. In effect, they buy a license to travel so many kilometres over the next six months or so (without reimbursement if they get it wrong). This means that the pump price reflects the production cost and its fuel tax only. Currently this is 69c NZ /litre = 38c US/litre = 1.44 US$/US gal. A couple of companies already make biodiesel from tallow (we have s few meat factories and freezing works!). However most of them find it economically pretty marginal. And, if the biodiesel is to be used for powering vehicles on the roads, that road tax is still payable! I have worked with a pig farmer in Fiji to produce methane on which he can run his vehicles. Because Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is still used in NZ by quite a large number, I would expect your friendly pig farmer to use methane as a fuel rather than biodiesel. But, whatever he decides, the technology he needs is already available locally. Regards Michael Allen 18/03/03 19:06:52, Chanti Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings We are two women from California travelling in New Zealand. We run our truck on bio-diesel in the states and are part of a cooperative, and we have met a man here who is keen on the idea and wants to start a bio-diesel business. He is a pig farmer who collects veggie oil and food waste for a living and so he is basically all set up! Our questions in helping him are that we don't know the legalities, requirements, permits, etc... we know that each country is different but if anyone has experience, contacts, ideas - we would love to hear. Does anyone have any info about making ethanol from food waste? Thanks and blessings, Chanti Smith __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia
If you are looking at just buying Methanol, BP has it. I used to buy it in 20 litre drums to mix with water for an injection system for a Mitsubishi Sigma 2.6 Litre Turbo. But I am looking for the legalities of distilling my own Ethanol. Jess - Original Message - From: Barry Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, 24 March, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia Hello, I've the same problem... I'm trying to locate a supply of Methenol in South Queensland and having no end of difficulty Barry - Original Message - From: Jess [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:47 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia Hi, I am new to this group I like what I ahve been reading in the archives. I have a question hopefully someone can direct me to the answer. What is situation in Australia with distilling Ethanol for fuel purposes. Do you need a licence or permit. If so where do you obtain one? Jess Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Local economies
This surely applies equally to local, community-level biofuels and energy production as opposed to big, centralized production - small is beautiful and represents a viable, sustainable future, big/central/top-down has its place but should stop acting like a dinosaur or suffer the same fate. Best Keith THE FACTS ON LOCAL FOOD AND LOCAL ECONOMIES Is Your Town Getting Your Money's Worth? When you spend $100 at a Borders Group Inc. chain store, your book or music purchase creates only $13 worth of local economic activity. That same $100 spent at a locally owned bookstore or record store generates $45, or more than three times as much local economic activity. That's the conclusion of a new study called Economic Impact Analysis: A Case Study, which was conducted by Civic Economics and published by Livable City in Austin, Texas. The study compares two venerable, independent Austin businesses' contributions to the local economy with the economic return the community would receive from a typical Borders store. For a copy of the study, see http://www.liveablecity.org/ http://www.liveablecity.org/. (Home Town Advantage Bulletin, February 2003) http://www.liveablecity.org/projects/6th.htm LIVEABLE CITY - PRESS RELEASE For Immediate Release Contact Mark Yznaga 657.4762 Liveable City or Dan Houston 587.7964 Civic Economics December 10, 2002 LIVEABLE CITY RELEASES 6TH AND LAMAR STUDY Economic Impacts of Local Merchants versus Chain Retailers Some economic developments can hurt the local economy, not help it. That's the message of an innovative economic study released today by local nonprofit Liveable City. The study, conducted by the Austin-based economic analysis firm Civic Economics, focuses on the much-anticipated new development at 6th and Lamar. Tenants include the Whole Foods corporate headquarters, a new Whole Foods store, and Borders Books Music, a national chain with a similar product mix as nearby successful local businesses BookPeople and Waterloo Records. The study found that, despite increasing sales of both books and music, Borders will actually result in a decrease in economic activity to Austin. The City of Austin previously granted $2.1 million in development incentives for the project, of which $710,000 has been used. The developer is now seeking additional incentives for the next stage of the project. People are worried about our economic downturn and how to 'Keep Austin Austin' said Bill Spelman, Chair of Liveable City Board of Directors. 6th and Lamar is a symbol of what's happening all over Austin. Our community needs to come together to redefine how we protect the things we care about, Spelman said. When the City of Austin is subsidizing a development, citizens have a right to hold the project to a different standard. Local retailers return more than three times as much economic value back to the community as chain retailers like Borders. Specifically, on an annual basis, the report estimates $4.1 million for Waterloo Records, $2.8 million for BookPeople, with only $800,000 for Borders. The study estimates that Borders will divert $11 to $14 million from local success stories BookPeople and Waterloo Records over five years. Dan Houston, a partner at Civic Economics, said, The proposed Borders at 6th and Lamar will yield a net loss to the local economy. Moreover, previous decisions have placed the City in the position of subsidizing such an outcome. Robin Rather, research director for Liveable City, explained, Local merchants keep much more of their labor, profits and spending here instead of out of town. Shopping at local businesses instead of national chains with equivalent products and prices injects three times as much money back into Austin's economy. Dan Houston of Civic Economics added, The study also shows that if each area household spent $100 during the holidays at local stores rather than at national chains, the impact on the Austin economy would be as much as $10 million. For each $100 spent by consumers, the total local economic impact from Borders is only $13 - while the same amount spent at Waterloo or BookPeople yields over three times as much - $45. Bill Spelman said that the study suggests that current City development program needs to be more sensitive to local businesses. We must consider the broader impacts of public decisions if we hope to ensure that Austin retains its unique local culture. Re-developing this corner is important, but it must be done without hurting the economy and nearby local businesses. The City Council is expected to act on the project during the early part of 2003. Rather said, Liveable City hopes this study raises questions that will lead to a better community dialogue. Clearly the situation requires more in-depth discussion and creative resolution before the Council or the developer takes further action. Copies of the full report are available from Mark Yznaga at
Re: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia
G'day Jess, Yep!! Just got hold of BP in Gladstone, then the retailer in the Tweed area and he sells Methanol in 20 lt drums for AUD 44.50 (plus freight of course!) that is the best I can do at the moment. I certainly got a run around. Seems they really only want to sell it to hotrodders Next is the setting up of a biodiesel test to see how good the process is... I'll try to make a small test batch and work out the costs from that. I'll use clean new vegetable oil to start with, then move to WVO later... Barry Lewis Mob: 0401 410 511 - Original Message - From: Jess [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia If you are looking at just buying Methanol, BP has it. I used to buy it in 20 litre drums to mix with water for an injection system for a Mitsubishi Sigma 2.6 Litre Turbo. But I am looking for the legalities of distilling my own Ethanol. Jess - Original Message - From: Barry Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, 24 March, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia Hello, I've the same problem... I'm trying to locate a supply of Methenol in South Queensland and having no end of difficulty Barry - Original Message - From: Jess [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 10:47 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] What are the Legal ramifications in Australia Hi, I am new to this group I like what I ahve been reading in the archives. I have a question hopefully someone can direct me to the answer. What is situation in Australia with distilling Ethanol for fuel purposes. Do you need a licence or permit. If so where do you obtain one? Jess Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] James Woolsey Biofuel Interview, Part 2 (Conclusion)
This has been one of my favorite all-time evworld.com interviews. I thought that the interview subject made many unusually direct-to-the-debate points. Furthermore, he seemed able to keep focused on the alt-fuel issue and the political ties to it, and to acknowledge the extremely wide variety of political rationales that we all find, without tying himself in knots. I don't understand why more folks can't achieve this. Now, in posting this to the biofuel group (where there is a lot of international diversity and recent political clamor and a lot of strong well-researched opining on ethanol issues) and the renewable group, I realize that some here may find, for one reason or another, that they do not like the article as much as I. So be it. If anyone sees a specific point they'd like to debate or discuss, please point it out. For my money, Mr. Woolsey made so many interesting points that I am hard-pressed to choose one to discuss, but I will: http://evworld.com/databases/printit.cfm?storyid=508 He sees the introduction of small scale biomass technology in developing countries without oil reserves and often saddled by huge international debt, as a way to help those countries ease themselves out from these financial burdens. A large part of that is for imported petroleum, he tells EV World. I call this a potential alliance between the cheap hawks, the do-gooders, the farmers and the tree-huggers. We've got the beginnings of a fairly substantial coalition, he concludes An interesting (to me) way of looking at things. He spoke at some length of how, in his view, biofuel production at a local level could help out an economy in a nascient economy. I had to wonder what Keith would think of that. For example, you could view the following as sort of patronizing, but I still thought it had some meat on it: If you look at a country like Nigeria, he observes, the Niger delta has one of the world's great oil supplies and it's sitting there pumping. People who live on top of it aren't getting any benefit from that. There are rebellions from time to time. They are poor tribesmen. Nobody is using [the oil] to help them. If they are subsistence farmers and they have an acre or two of land to grow crops for their family, if they can take the agricultural waste to a nearby biomass ethanol facility and produce transportation fuel, that's an extra bit of income for them, maybe if its only fifty or a hundred dollars a year, and they are making only three or four hundred dollars a year, that's substantial change. Note that, as we speak, Nigeria seems to be in the midst of civil unrest, continuing to interrupt its oil flow. Aren't they the sixth largest supplier to the states or something? Nigerian low output was one of the reasons for the rise in the price of oil these last few months. So, that reason has not been removed, although others have been and the price seems to have turned downward: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CO/43 There does seem to have been a corresponding drop in unleaded gas as traded on the exchanges: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/UG/43 There has *not* been *any* substantial drop in the price of unleaded gas, at the pump, down the street from where I live. $2.19 at the shell station, for 87 octane, just 3 cents (1.2% or so) drop from the localized down-the-street-highs of $2.22 last week. This hasn't been surprising to me. At-the-pump prices do come down, eventually, but they are seemingly sticky, sort of quick to go up, and somewhat more reluctant to come down, or so it sometimes seems. Conspiracy theorists around here often point this out as a primary example of gouging. Most business people, in my view, are out to conspire to maximize most or all of their profit (heaven forbid), though it's a tricky thing because when you have a monopoly, or are perceived to have achieved one, then public opinion will be directed against you more strongly, and rightly so. The pace with which the prices come down does seem to me, as a consumer, like a betrayal of sorts at times, but right now there's nothing I can do about it. I look forward to a greater competition and diversity in fuels so perhaps this pace would be quickened. And maybe we could get rid of this insulting 9/10 of a cent that all gas sold in the U.S. (don't know about elsewhere) seems to have. I don't know of any other industries where the sellers feel compelled to insult the purchasers in this way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe
Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuel business in developing countries.
Hello Hakan, I have read your article biofuel business in developing countries with great interest. Thank you for considering developing countries. I am an organic chemistry professor from Turkey. (Although Turkey is now considered as an industrialised country but I am not so sure) I have been interested in biodiesel for some time and I beleive, as you suggested, this will be extremely important for every country in the future, especially for the developing countries. However, astonishingly, developed nations are far more interested in alternative fuels than the developing ones. As commented by Mauro Knudsen for Argentine, my country also has no planing and politics on biofuels as yet. We are producing important amount of olive oil, sun flower oil, cotton seed oil and some poppy seed oil.However all these are used primarily for food purposes. Never the less, the production can be increased if economics gets right. Although we have great agricultural lands to be caltivated we are importing soybeans and soybean oil from south america. I beleive this is due to the wrong agricultural policies. I was told that some soybean production has started in south Turkey. Rape seed oil production was prohibited to prevent any accidental uses of it in food oil. But Kanola oil (nontoxic version of rape seed) is produced. So, we have sufficient sources for veg. oils however, I think the prices are not right for the production of biodiesel at the moment. Bulk crude veg.oil prices (excluding olive oil which is too expensive) are about 0,7-0.8 dollars /kg at the moment. The petroleum diesel sells at the pump for 0.9 dollars/L (about 3.5 dollars per gallon). I don't know the availability and price of the waste veg oil at the moment but I am trying to find out. There is one more problem in this country. There is so much government tax ( I was told 200%, plus VAT) on the petroleum fuels that the government is getting a good income from the sales. Therefore I am sure they will not permit the sale of biofuel at the moment without any tax. In some EU countries there are tax reductions to promote the production of biofuels. But , it seems this promotion is not possible in this country for the near future. One possibility is to find an alternative cheap oil source. I know that some willage people press oils using mixed seeds (mainly poppy seed and sunflower seed) and these mixed oils sells cheaper. So at the moment I keep an eye on the developments. I am not just an academic. I am also a small shareholder and consultant of a small local company and we have produced some experimental FAME. It works easily as you all know but we did not use it as a fuel instead we converted it to soft soap and sold it. I hope that these are any interest to you. By the way, I also read your comments on the iraq war. No one is defending Saddam here in this country but they beleive that, USA action was not necessary at this stage. As you also pointed out USA is loosing its friends and restoration of this will take a long time. I beleive USA as a leader country, should do everything possible to keep the peace in the world and should not promote war at all. Saying this, I would also like to point out that my own government also deserves critisizm. With my best wishes Levent Yuceer - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:29 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Biofuel business in developing countries. Hi All, Some time ago I started to write on Biofuel business in developing countries. I now reach a stage where it could be beneficial to ask for comments and suggestions from the list members. The most important suggestions on how to create and organize a biofuel business are not ready, I estimate that it is 20% more needed but you can look at it, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofueldev.shtml It should be of special interest if I can get comments from members working in developing countries. If you do not want to post your comments, please send them to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a
[biofuels-biz] (fwd) EVs vs. High-mileage-hybrids with some ethanol mixed in
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 00:57:51 -0800 (PST), Bruce EVangel Parmenter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
EVLN(Toyota sez Electric-only vehicles are too much hassle)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.dailybreeze.com/content/bln/nmcars23.html
Monday, March 24, 2003
Hybrid cars take over where electrics left off
EMISSIONS: California air-quality officials are expected to
end the landmark smog-fighting program.
By Michael Gardner COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
SACRAMENTO ÷ Gary Campbell and Sharon Lewis have logged
82,500 miles in their Honda, but they didnât spend a dime on
gas. The couple plugs in instead of filling up.
Lee Laymon also uses battery power, but his
50-miles-per-gallon hybrid hatchback can zip from San Diego
to San Francisco on a tank of gas.
Laymon, Campbell and Lewis are on the cusp of a modest, yet
important time of transition for car-crazy California. Gas
has pierced the $2-a-gallon barrier. SUVs are under siege.
And, in Southern California, corn from the Midwest is
helping curb pollution.
In a major policy shift, Californiaâs air-quality regulators
Thursday are expected to all but pull the plug on the
stateâs landmark electric vehicle program.
Resistance from automakers, a lukewarm response from
consumers and slow technological advances combined to park
the program that a decade ago was hailed as the next
promising smog-stopper.
Electric vehicles will give way to gas-electric hybrids ÷
cheaper and more convenient ÷ as the smog-fighting vehicle
du jour.
The technology is off-the-shelf. Weâre not talking about
experiments,ä said Jerry Martin, an air board spokesman.
Electric vehicles rare
Under the proposal, automakers would have to sell 22,000
hybrid vehicles by 2005 and slowly broaden sales to 117,500
by 2009.
In contrast, at least 260,000 electric vehicles would be on
the roads alongside 28 million gas-powered cars and trucks
if the state had stuck to its 1990 mandate. Instead,
numbering just 2,500, EVs are rare enough to inspire ãWhatâs
that?ä looks as they pass by silently.
Air quality advocates appear resigned to the change. Taking
solace, they say there would not have been a steady march to
battery- and fuel-cell-powered vehicles if the state had not
issued the original zero-emission-vehicle mandate.
Hybrids are the next evolution,ä said John DeCicco, a
Detroit-based watchdog for Environmental Defense. Consumers,
he said, will readily accept hybrids because they donât see
it as a big change from traditional gasoline engines.
Toyota and Honda ÷ the only dealers with hybrids on the mass
market today ÷ sold a record 4,200 combined nationwide last
month, according to industry figures. Just about every major
manufacturer has announced plans to launch a hybrid model in
the next year or two.
Itâs hard to tell if itâs a short-term phenomenon,ä said
Dave Hermance, an engineer with Toyota in Torrance. ãAs more
product comes to market, weâll see if itâs ready for prime
time.ä Laymon, a retired Sacramento engineer, didnât give it
a second thought. He selected a $21,000, two-seat hatchback,
convinced that gas savings will quickly cover the difference
in price if he had settled on a less expensive sedan.
Electric-only vehicles, he said, ãare too much hassle.ä
Range is limited, and recharging stations are rare, he
said.
The hybrid does not have to be plugged in because its
battery recharges with each trip.
ãIt delivers all the power you want,ä Laymon said.
The shift away from electric vehicles is a bittersweet time
for Campbell and Lewis, an Elk Grove couple. They are some
of the earliest pioneers, leasing a Honda EV Plus for $500 a
month (collision insurance and maintenance included) in
1997.
Thereâs no pollution, no consumption of fossil fuels,ä
Campbell said. ãRight now, itâs nice to not have the sticker
shock at gas stations.ä
But, over the years, the carâs 100-mile range has been cut
in half. They donât expect Honda to renew the lease in
June.
Electric cars never caught on enough to make it feasible,ä
Campbell said. ãMaybe if the manufacturers had marketed
better and tried harder to make the infrastructure work.ä
Campbell and Lewis want another EV, but there are few
available. Instead, they are shopping for a hybrid.
ãItâs a good compromise,ä Campbell said.
Excitement over fuel cells
Laymon already has picked out his next car ÷ a hydrogen
fuel-cell vehicle ÷ once it enters the market.
Unlike electric vehicles, fuel cells ÷ endorsed by President
Bush ÷ have been embraced by the industry.
The car companies are in love with fuel cells,ä said Martin,
the air board spokesman. ãThey see a business case for fuel
cells. They are much more willing to do the heavy investing
to move from concept car to market.ä
Until then, SUVs still rule the roads despite their
insatiable thirst for gas. But times are changing for these
drivers as well. The air board is in the middle of
developing new
[biofuels-biz] Re: James Woolsey Biofuel Interview, Part 2 (Conclusion)
Hi MM This has been one of my favorite all-time evworld.com interviews. I thought that the interview subject made many unusually direct-to-the-debate points. Furthermore, he seemed able to keep focused on the alt-fuel issue and the political ties to it, and to acknowledge the extremely wide variety of political rationales that we all find, without tying himself in knots. I don't understand why more folks can't achieve this. Now, in posting this to the biofuel group (where there is a lot of international diversity and recent political clamor and a lot of strong well-researched opining on ethanol issues) and the renewable group, I realize that some here may find, for one reason or another, that they do not like the article as much as I. So be it. A major reservation I have with this whole line of thought is the demonizing of the Middle East, and especially Saudi Arabia, because of the US dependence on their oil. What this thinking leaves out, evades, is that it's highly unlikely that Saudi Arabia would be the repressive place it still is were it not for the long-standing and heavy-handed influence there of the US and the (mostly US) oil corporations, which have propped up the Saudi regime no matter what. Now that it's finally become the game of consequences that was so predictable from the start, the US (as usual) just wants to walk away, leaving its mess behind, as it's done twice in Afghanistan and will almost certainly do in Iraq. Re Afghanistan, despite all the promises: The Bush administration has shown that it has a very short attention span on post-conflict humanitarian efforts. The White House didn't request a single dollar for humanitarian aid to Afghanistan in this year's budget -- Congress had to take the unusual step of adding in $300 million. This evasion kind of knocks the props out from under Mr Woolsey, IMO, and many others with him. If anyone sees a specific point they'd like to debate or discuss, please point it out. For my money, Mr. Woolsey made so many interesting points that I am hard-pressed to choose one to discuss, but I will: http://evworld.com/databases/printit.cfm?storyid=508 He sees the introduction of small scale biomass technology in developing countries without oil reserves and often saddled by huge international debt, as a way to help those countries ease themselves out from these financial burdens. A large part of that is for imported petroleum, he tells EV World. I call this a potential alliance between the cheap hawks, the do-gooders, the farmers and the tree-huggers. We've got the beginnings of a fairly substantial coalition, he concludes An interesting (to me) way of looking at things. He spoke at some length of how, in his view, biofuel production at a local level could help out an economy in a nascient economy. I had to wonder what Keith would think of that. For example, you could view the following as sort of patronizing, but I still thought it had some meat on it: If you look at a country like Nigeria, he observes, the Niger delta has one of the world's great oil supplies and it's sitting there pumping. People who live on top of it aren't getting any benefit from that. There are rebellions from time to time. They are poor tribesmen. Nobody is using [the oil] to help them. If they are subsistence farmers and they have an acre or two of land to grow crops for their family, if they can take the agricultural waste to a nearby biomass ethanol facility and produce transportation fuel, that's an extra bit of income for them, maybe if its only fifty or a hundred dollars a year, and they are making only three or four hundred dollars a year, that's substantial change. Well, yes, in a fumbling sort of way, but at least he's not blind to it all. Why, though, does he pick on Nigeria and the 3rd World rather than the community level in the US? He talks a bit of reviving hard-hit local economies in the US with local biofuels production, but doesn't really seem to see the need to decentralize energy production itself (and much besides). He's not clear on this issue - he should pay a visit to the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. He does know of it - elsewhere he's quoted the ILSR's David Morris, but it's a fumbling awareness. But then I wouldn't expect someone with Mr Woolsey's background to be quite comfortable with the idea of self-reliant local communities, in the US or anywhere else. Typically, he skirts the real problems in the Niger delta, it's MUCH worse than that. There's more than a hint of this noxious idea that the rest of the world is only there to serve as a sort of Walmart to supply America's needs and greeds, with the only issue to be considered being what's printed on the price tag. Sort of patronizing, yes. Well, that's an attitude you'll find elsewhere in the OECD, and though the US is probably the worst culprit, it's only a metter of degree. But yes, MM, it is an interesting piece, and I
[biofuels-biz] Trends in New Crops and New Uses
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/pdf/default.html Trends in New Crops and New Uses Proceedings of the fifth National Symposium New Crops and New Uses Strength in Diversity Links to pdf files. CONTENTS 1. New Crops and Bio-based Products 2. International New Crop Development 3. Cereals and Pseudocereals and Grain Legumes 4. Edible Oilseeds 5. Industrial Oilseeds 6. Rubber Crops 7. Biomass Crops 8. Fibers 9. Fruits 10. Vegetables 11. Ornamentals 12. Herbs, Medicinals, and Aromatics List of Contributors PREFACE-Dennis Ray, Jules Janick, Dave Dierig, Robert Myers, and Carmela Bailey PART I: NEW CROP ISSUES NEW CROPS AND BIO-BASED PRODUCTS * US Agriculture and National Security-R. James Woolsey * The New Petroleum-Richard G. Lugar and R. James Woolsey * The Bio-based Economy-Ralph W.F. Hardy * Ethanol From Cellulose: A General Review-P.C. Badger * Biofuels: The European Experience-Melvyn F. Askew * Utilizing New Crops to Grow the Biobased Market-Shari Miller, Curtis Scharf, and Mark Miller * Canola-based Motor Oils-Duane L. Johnson, Blaine Rhodes, and Robert Allen * Connecting a Worldwide Network of New Crops and New Uses Researchers, Entrepreneurs, and Corporations through an Internet-Based Communication System for Biobased Products-Peter A. Nelson INTERNATIONAL NEW CROP DEVELOPMENT * International New Crop Development Incentives, Barriers, Processes And Progress: An Australian Perspective-R.J. Fletcher * Interactive European Network for Industrial Crops and Their Applications-M.F. Askew * New Crop Development: The Canadian Experience-S.F. Blade and A.E. Slinkard * Commercialization of South African Indigenous Crops: Aspects of Research and Cultivation of Products-Emmy Reinten and J.H. Coetzee * A Framework for the Development of New Crops Industries in South Africa-J.G. Theron * Nontraditional Crop Production in Africa for Export-Bharat P. Singh * Quality Assurance and Quality Control for African Natural Plant Products from the Ground Up-Ya'akov Tadmor, Elton Jefthas, Jackie Goliath, Marianna Smith, Petrus Langenhoven, Dan Acquaye, Rodolfo Juliani, Wudeneh Letchamo, Erica Renaud, Noah Zimba, Ilya Raskin, Jerry Brown, and James E. Simon PART II: STATUS OF NEW CROPS AND NEW USES CEREALS, PSEUDOCEREALS, AND GRAIN LEGUMES * Progress with Proso, Pearl and Other Millets-David D. Baltensperger * Non-Shattering Grain Amaranth Populations-D.M. Brenner * Response of Grain Amaranth Production to Density and Fertilization in Tarija, Bolivia-V. Apaza-Gutierrez, A. Romero-Saravia, F.R. Guilln-Portal, and D.D. Baltensperger * Quinoa Saponins: Concentration and Composition Analysis-Jos Bernardo Solz-Guerrero, Diana Jasso de Rodrguez, Ral Rodrguez-Garca, Jos Luis Angulo-Snchez, and Guadalupe Mndez-Padilla * Evaluation of Lupin as a New Food/Feed Crop in the US Mid-Atlantic Region-Harbans L. Bhardwaj EDIBLE OILSEEDS * Canola: An Emerging Oilseed Crop-Paul L. Raymer * Prospects of Canola as an Alternative Winter Crop in Virginia-David E. Starner, Anwar A. Hamama, and Harbans L. Bhardwaj * Performance of Canola in Southern Sonora, Mxico-Sergio Muoz-Valenzuela, Greg Buzza, and Roberto Avalos-Prez * NuSun Sunflower Oil: Redirection of an Industry-Larry W. Kleingartner * Grain Yield and Fatty Acid Composition of Sunflower Seed for Cultivars Developed Under Dry Land Conditions-Diana Jasso de Rodrguez, Bliss S. Phillips, Ral Rodriguez-Garca, and Jos Luis Angulo-Snchez * Characterization of Proteins from Sunflower Leaves and Seeds: Relationship of Biomass and Seed Yield-Diana Jasso de Rodr'guez, Jorge Romero-Garca, Ral Rodrguez-Garca, and Jos Luis Angulo Snchez * Potential Source of Reduced Palmitic and Stearic Fatty Acids in Sunflower Oil From a Population of Wild Helianthus annuus-G.J. Seiler * Food, Industrial, Nutraceutical, and Pharmaceutical Uses of Sesame Genetic Resources-J. Bradley Morris * Progress in Mechanizing Sesame in the US Through Breeding-D. Ray Langham and Terry Wiemers * Nigerseed: Specialty Grain Opportunity for Midwestern US-J. Quinn and R.L. Myers * Safflower Management and Adaptation for the High Plains-David D. Baltensperger, Glen Frickel, Drew Lyon, Jim Krall, and Tom Nightingale * Production of Pumpkin for Oil-F. Bavec, L. Gril, S. Grobelnik-Mlakar, and M. Bavec INDUSTRIAL OILSEEDS * Meadowfoam Industry Update-Gary D. Jolliff and George D. Hoffman * Farmer-University Collaboration with Meadowfoam Research-George D. Hoffman, Doug Duerst, and Gary D. Jolliff * Introduction and Establishment of Meadowfoam as a New Crop in Virginia: History and Lessons Learned-Harbans L. Bhardwaj * An Ovule Culture Technique for Producing Interspecific Lesquerella Hybrids-Pernell Tomasi, David Dierig, and Gail Dahlquist * Cuphea Growth and Development: Responses to Temperature-Russ W. Gesch, Nancy W. Barbour, Frank Forcella, and Ward B. Voorhees * Rooting Characteristics and
[biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol
Someone posted a note a while back about hemp being able to produce 1,000 gallons of methanol per acre. I was wondering what country would be the best place to grow hemp in, for both the climate and cost of land. Oh yah the legality as well Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer 972-488-0999 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol
Ethanol. Canada allows production of hemp. see this link: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15143 Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 10:12 AM, Doug Allbright wrote: Someone posted a note a while back about hemp being able to produce 1,000 gallons of methanol per acre. I was wondering what country would be the best place to grow hemp in, for both the climate and cost of land. Oh yah the legality as well Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer 972-488-0999 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM - ~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol
Approximately 100 gallons per ton of feedstock. That would give between 500-1,000 gallons per acre of hemp depending upon the farming practice, after any oils were recovered. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Someone posted a note a while back about hemp being able to produce 1,000 gallons of methanol per acre. I was wondering what country would be the best place to grow hemp in, for both the climate and cost of land. Oh yah the legality as well Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer 972-488-0999 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol
Todd Thanks for the info, could you point me to some documentation or site that confirm that. I don't doubt you for a second, and that seems to be the general consensus but I am building business plan and need more info. Thanks Doug -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:13 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Approximately 100 gallons per ton of feedstock. That would give between 500-1,000 gallons per acre of hemp depending upon the farming practice, after any oils were recovered. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Someone posted a note a while back about hemp being able to produce 1,000 gallons of methanol per acre. I was wondering what country would be the best place to grow hemp in, for both the climate and cost of land. Oh yah the legality as well Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer 972-488-0999 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705064189:HM/A=1481646/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_flake/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1481646/rand=505712450 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol
You could do a search for pyrolysis or wood gasification conversion. Calculating feedstock conversion ratios, stoichiometric or real world, is not exactly my area of expertise. The numbers I derived are based upon the real life yields of Canadian hemp farmers, dependant upon the end product desired and whether or not the fields were irrigated. Lynn Osburn published Energy Farming in America back in 1990 (maybe 1989). An online version is at http://www.hempcar.org/efia.shtml The references provided there should get you a further down the pike. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Todd Thanks for the info, could you point me to some documentation or site that confirm that. I don't doubt you for a second, and that seems to be the general consensus but I am building business plan and need more info. Thanks Doug -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:13 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Approximately 100 gallons per ton of feedstock. That would give between 500-1,000 gallons per acre of hemp depending upon the farming practice, after any oils were recovered. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Someone posted a note a while back about hemp being able to produce 1,000 gallons of methanol per acre. I was wondering what country would be the best place to grow hemp in, for both the climate and cost of land. Oh yah the legality as well Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer 972-488-0999 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol
Todd Thanks again, thats a great place for me to start researching. hehe even though I can't pronounce one of those words. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:22 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol You could do a search for pyrolysis or wood gasification conversion. Calculating feedstock conversion ratios, stoichiometric or real world, is not exactly my area of expertise. The numbers I derived are based upon the real life yields of Canadian hemp farmers, dependant upon the end product desired and whether or not the fields were irrigated. Lynn Osburn published Energy Farming in America back in 1990 (maybe 1989). An online version is at http://www.hempcar.org/efia.shtml The references provided there should get you a further down the pike. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:34 PM Subject: RE: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Todd Thanks for the info, could you point me to some documentation or site that confirm that. I don't doubt you for a second, and that seems to be the general consensus but I am building business plan and need more info. Thanks Doug -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 8:13 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Approximately 100 gallons per ton of feedstock. That would give between 500-1,000 gallons per acre of hemp depending upon the farming practice, after any oils were recovered. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:12 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Hemp and Methanol Someone posted a note a while back about hemp being able to produce 1,000 gallons of methanol per acre. I was wondering what country would be the best place to grow hemp in, for both the climate and cost of land. Oh yah the legality as well Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer 972-488-0999 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705064189:HM/A=1508984/R=2/id=noscript/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_02F/g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1508984/rand=164928232 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] australia ethanol news
Wednesday March 26, 03:14 PM Vic set for mandatory ethanol labelling The Victorian government announced the state would be the first in Australia to introduce mandatory labelling of ethanol content in fuel. Victorian Consumer Affairs Minister John Lenders said that from May 1, petrol stations would be required to disclose fuel's ethanol content at the pump. Labels will state whether ethanol content is up to a maximum of 10 per cent, or more than 10 per cent. Ethanol has been promoted as an octane enhancer and clean additive to fuel, but in concentrations of more than 10 per cent is reported to damage vehicles' engines and fuel systems. Under the new laws, petrol stations caught selling fuel without ethanol content labels will face fines of up to $60,000, or $25,000 fines for individuals. Mr Lenders said Consumer Affairs Victoria would police the system with random tests across the state. He said the state government had decided to act after the federal government failed to regulate ethanol content. The Howard government is ignoring mounting community concern and calls by Victoria and other states to effectively control the level of ethanol in fuel, Mr Lenders said. He said the federal government should implement a 10 per cent cap on ethanol in fuel. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil
Steve: You asked for an answer on this once before, I missed reading your query until the moment had already passed - so here is my opinion on what needs to be shown, to really show that the TDI's are fine on SVO, no matter how you do it... Ten TDI's, 250,000 km+, no more than one failure. Then you will have a convert here. Why so high? - Literature review (reading studies of actual scientific testing) indicates that even with heating of the SVO, problems will be much more likely to occur than on IDI. - Typical TDI engine life would be at least that, with probably one in ten or fewer failures before 300,000 km. Once again, the question is not resolved by whether you have tried it or not. I do not doubt that some kits have been aggressively sold to trusting TDI owners and their engines have run for a few years on grease, soy, etc. I'm not convinced it is a good practice, and we still discourage it, even though it costs us sales. what is it now for mileage?...certainly no where near what has been done on biodiesel testing, not even close at all to diesel testing. So, once again, the results to date are preliminary, and do not remove the results that have been noted over and over about use in DI engines, especially small displacement engines, in a number of studies, the most relevant one still being the ACREVO study. Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 05:37 PM, Gary Gluyas wrote: Steve Obviously you are doing it! - I'd like to ask you a question or two. And anyone else who may have the time? thanks. What is your opinion on Direct Injection - say a 3 cylinder Ford Dexta (circa 1958) tractor running WVO for electricity generation - PROVIDING of course the WVO tank is heated? Gary - Original Message - From: Steve Spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil You will hear much about how TDI's can'/shouldn't run on WVO, usually from those who have never done it. We beg to differ, and have been running them for 2 years now, The dissidents will tell you 2 years (and over 50k miles) is not a long enough time period to tall, but fail to indicate what mileage they would accept as proof. Meanwhile, we keep driving. In the interests of peace and love, any non-direct injected engine will work wonderfully if the oil is heated properly (there is disagreement on what properly means as well). US kit makers include: greasel (which we sell) greasecar greasemonkey (seems to have disappeared) Canada has Neoteric. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ben Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge regarding what small diesels run best on used veggie oil. I have read much information on the controversy about DI engines and their ability to run properly and long-term on WVO. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this? I am also looking into older mercedes (S-class in particular) along with newer VW TDI's and older VW's. I've heard that mercedes engines can almost run on lard. Also, there are a slew of conversion kits out there, mostly from Europe - any recommendations? Thanks in advance and cheers, -- Ben - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM - ~-
Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul
Ken, It will pass Ken, this about the war etc.. The problem is that as discussion list, we are a very mixed bunch of people that have a strong interest together. The interest for biofuels is in its nature a social interest at the moment. You must have a very high degree of enthusiasm to be able to work and argue for biofuels. This brings us together and it is natural to discuss events among friends. Keith understand this and our need to share thoughts among us. It is good and for many a security valve. When such a disturbing event as the current war happens, it is bound to make waves among us. It will pass and we have to deal with some new realities. As Senator Robert Byrd said, (who actually started this Arrogance of power thread) Our friends are now afraid of us. Hakan At 08:42 PM 3/24/2003 +, you wrote: Hakan, I understand, but I am concerned Keith's belligerence is undermining his own position and arguments re the belligerents, Blair Bush. sauce for the goose etc. Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Ken, I am surprised that you could read this message in what I wrote. It is maybe needed that I once again have to say what I sad so many times, that I am afraid to embarrass Keith. I have never seen such a good moderator with sense for what people need to talk about in such a political issue as the energy questions. Sometimes almost all get a little derailed, but he show a large respect and patience with it. I think that it is symptomatic with all this concerns about this attack on Iraq. It is many nationalities on the list and many concerns. No wonder that it is discussed a lot, but at the same time the majority of the postings are valuable interchange of views. It is actually an opportunity the get a true international view from grass root level. The fact that it is so many against the attack and occupation, is representative for what the world thinks about it. According to my opinion, it is all about Iraqi oil and the future will prove it. You are already seeing this in what is happening. Hakan At 08:51 PM 3/23/2003 +, you wrote: Hakan, I think you are right as usual. It is time for Keith to moderate his responses. He is supposed to be the list moderator Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Keith, I second this and think that Thor is right. I would be surprised if the members of this list supports name calling anyway, it is not my experience. Paul is only hurting himself and I do not think that it is going to escalate to a general behavior if you allow him to do that. Hakan At 09:25 PM 3/22/2003 -0800, you wrote: Keith, I sincerely hope you don't go through with your threat to censure Paul for his comments. I've believed in the sticks and stones approach to debate. If someone resorts to name calling they pretty much lose their audience (unless you're watching Jerry Springer or Rush Limbaugh) and render themselves ineffective. Personal insults are often the result of frustration from the inability to articulate one's thoughts, or from a lack of a good argument. And censorship looks like, well, censorship. Please reconsider. sincerely, thor skov Message: 15 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 03:22:14 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Arrogance of Power and a bunch of other war-related threads Paul Schwartz wrote: except that you're not a dog, I'm not a dog, and its not only dogs that you are killing. Indeed the colonial histories of the France's, Britain's, Portugal's, Spain, etc. to infinity, don't often look too honourable. So why follow their example? Interesting to note that the howling of dogs provides the only early warning of cruise missiles incoming to Baghdad. Its all they've got. Good, let it be known that if any tyrant chooses to threaten the peace of the world and murder his own people to retain his illegitimate power, then the howling of dogs may be the last thing he hears on this earth. Tyrants and fascists--like Andrew-- Pardon me, are you calling Andrew a tyrant and a fascist? You have two choices: justify that or apologize, onlist, without reservation. Not responding is not an option. No further warnings, do it by tomorrow. beware, if you threaten the peace of the USA and we will unleash the dogs of hell on you. Andy, shut up
RE: [biofuel] Electric generators
To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating electricity. Filip Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul
Hakan, I understand, but I am concerned Keith's belligerence is undermining his own position and arguments re the belligerents, Blair Bush. sauce for the goose etc. Ken Yes, yes, Ken, but you're only bothered by my alleged belligerence because you decided to do a little trolling for your own entertainment, never mind that it was at the list's expense, and I stopped you. So I think your professed concern for the list and the issues and so on might not be as great as that for your own loss of face. From a recent message, in case you missed it (which, either way, missed or ignored, apparently doesn't stop you pontificating about it): Part of being the owner-skivvy of a list is to take action when members get out of line. Paul Schwartz was way out of line in calling Andrew a fascist, and such gratuitous abuse of other members is not allowed here. Here's another part - the bouncer. Clubs have bouncers - at well-managed clubs they're seldom used, but they're there just the same. Here it's seldom used, but it's used when necessary. Just when it's necessary and how it's used has been established through the history of the list, from the first couple of times it happened, with much debate, and subsequent debate. Just to scotch your drift, when a member gets out of line like this I don't care who it is or what his/her views are, he/she will be told to apologise or else. Something similar has happened to someone who'd become a friend, with much prior off-list correspondence: he was warned, he ignored it, out he went. This is how it works: my duties are to the best interests of the list and the issues it represents, and to the individual members until they go against the best interests of the list and the issues it represents. Simple enough. Okay? Well, okay or not okay, you've nursed the chip on your shoulder quite long enough, drop this nonsense now, it contributes nothing but extra noise. Keith Addison List owner - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Ken, I am surprised that you could read this message in what I wrote. It is maybe needed that I once again have to say what I sad so many times, that I am afraid to embarrass Keith. I have never seen such a good moderator with sense for what people need to talk about in such a political issue as the energy questions. Sometimes almost all get a little derailed, but he show a large respect and patience with it. I think that it is symptomatic with all this concerns about this attack on Iraq. It is many nationalities on the list and many concerns. No wonder that it is discussed a lot, but at the same time the majority of the postings are valuable interchange of views. It is actually an opportunity the get a true international view from grass root level. The fact that it is so many against the attack and occupation, is representative for what the world thinks about it. According to my opinion, it is all about Iraqi oil and the future will prove it. You are already seeing this in what is happening. Hakan At 08:51 PM 3/23/2003 +, you wrote: Hakan, I think you are right as usual. It is time for Keith to moderate his responses. He is supposed to be the list moderator Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Keith, I second this and think that Thor is right. I would be surprised if the members of this list supports name calling anyway, it is not my experience. Paul is only hurting himself and I do not think that it is going to escalate to a general behavior if you allow him to do that. Hakan At 09:25 PM 3/22/2003 -0800, you wrote: Keith, I sincerely hope you don't go through with your threat to censure Paul for his comments. I've believed in the sticks and stones approach to debate. If someone resorts to name calling they pretty much lose their audience (unless you're watching Jerry Springer or Rush Limbaugh) and render themselves ineffective. Personal insults are often the result of frustration from the inability to articulate one's thoughts, or from a lack of a good argument. And censorship looks like, well, censorship. Please reconsider. sincerely, thor skov Message: 15 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 03:22:14 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Arrogance of Power and a bunch of other war-related threads Paul Schwartz wrote: except that you're not a dog, I'm not a dog, and its not only dogs that you are killing. Indeed the colonial histories of the France's,
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Sorry, I wasn't sure if it's what you wanted. (LOL) There was a generator someone made a few years back. I think it was developed by some guy named Roesel() ... or something like that. 'K, now don't all jump me with that can't work!! cause it's only how *I* understand how it works (I could be wrong). Who, me? With electrickery? I wouldn't know if it works or not Curtis - you want to fool me, you go right ahead, dead easy. Regards Keith #1. Basic template: Automobile Alternator. In a sense that the static field spins inside of the actual power making coils. OK?? #2. It's just that, what spins inside (rotor) is a special type of magnetic material.And other than the actual power-making coils in the stator, there are also special exciter coil which writes on the spinning drum. Think: record head recording on magnetic tape. Or like a floppy drive head. Can you imagine that so far?? So as the rotor turns, the exciter head writes the correct number of poles which, with the current RPM's equals 60 Hz. If the RPM's change, a microprocessor calculates the correct number of poles which would result in 60 Hz. And writes it ON THE FLY. Not only is this a theory but several years ago an ACTUAL alternator was built and tested. It was tested with varying loads and a one-cylinder engine (which of course, has ahem ... excellent speed consistency). Loads were kicked in and out ... the engine did it's thing yet the voltage AND THE FREQUENCY remained constant. Maybe a google search on Roesel might get something I dunno. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't temp us, Curtis - tell us what a rewritable rotor does :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Re: [biofuels-biz] questions from New Zealand
Cross-post. From: Michael Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:02:27 +1200 Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] questions from New Zealand Reply-To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Dear Chanti and Prof. AK, So pleased to hear that you both enjoyed New Zealand! Perhaps you could ask your friendly pig farmer to contact me so I can put him in touch with biodiesels and universities who are active in New Zealand at present. Because New Zealand is the largest manufacture of methanol in the southern hemisphere, he should find it fairly easy to get one major ingredient. We also make quite a lot of ethanol from dairy waste (mainly lactose) but that (IMO) sensibly goes into making gin! The handling, transport and storage of these materials is regulated (of course) by the Department of Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) and the Dangerous Goods Act amongst several others. One interesting feature of diesel usage in New Zealand is that heavy commercial road transport is required to have a tamper-proof hub-meter so that they pay a tax on kilometres of road they have travelled. (Why should other road users subsidise the operation of commercial trucking ?) Smaller diesel powered vehicles are required to pay a road tax BEFORE they travel those costly kilometres. In effect, they buy a license to travel so many kilometres over the next six months or so (without reimbursement if they get it wrong). This means that the pump price reflects the production cost and its fuel tax only. Currently this is 69c NZ /litre = 38c US/litre = 1.44 US$/US gal. A couple of companies already make biodiesel from tallow (we have s few meat factories and freezing works!). However most of them find it economically pretty marginal. And, if the biodiesel is to be used for powering vehicles on the roads, that road tax is still payable! I have worked with a pig farmer in Fiji to produce methane on which he can run his vehicles. Because Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is still used in NZ by quite a large number, I would expect your friendly pig farmer to use methane as a fuel rather than biodiesel. But, whatever he decides, the technology he needs is already available locally. Regards Michael Allen 18/03/03 19:06:52, Chanti Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings We are two women from California travelling in New Zealand. We run our truck on bio-diesel in the states and are part of a cooperative, and we have met a man here who is keen on the idea and wants to start a bio-diesel business. He is a pig farmer who collects veggie oil and food waste for a living and so he is basically all set up! Our questions in helping him are that we don't know the legalities, requirements, permits, etc... we know that each country is different but if anyone has experience, contacts, ideas - we would love to hear. Does anyone have any info about making ethanol from food waste? Thanks and blessings, Chanti Smith __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Local economies
This surely applies equally to local, community-level biofuels and energy production as opposed to big, centralized production - small is beautiful and represents a viable, sustainable future, big/central/top-down has its place but should stop acting like a dinosaur or suffer the same fate. Best Keith THE FACTS ON LOCAL FOOD AND LOCAL ECONOMIES Is Your Town Getting Your Money's Worth? When you spend $100 at a Borders Group Inc. chain store, your book or music purchase creates only $13 worth of local economic activity. That same $100 spent at a locally owned bookstore or record store generates $45, or more than three times as much local economic activity. That's the conclusion of a new study called Economic Impact Analysis: A Case Study, which was conducted by Civic Economics and published by Livable City in Austin, Texas. The study compares two venerable, independent Austin businesses' contributions to the local economy with the economic return the community would receive from a typical Borders store. For a copy of the study, see http://www.liveablecity.org/ http://www.liveablecity.org/. (Home Town Advantage Bulletin, February 2003) http://www.liveablecity.org/projects/6th.htm LIVEABLE CITY - PRESS RELEASE For Immediate Release Contact Mark Yznaga 657.4762 Liveable City or Dan Houston 587.7964 Civic Economics December 10, 2002 LIVEABLE CITY RELEASES 6TH AND LAMAR STUDY Economic Impacts of Local Merchants versus Chain Retailers Some economic developments can hurt the local economy, not help it. That's the message of an innovative economic study released today by local nonprofit Liveable City. The study, conducted by the Austin-based economic analysis firm Civic Economics, focuses on the much-anticipated new development at 6th and Lamar. Tenants include the Whole Foods corporate headquarters, a new Whole Foods store, and Borders Books Music, a national chain with a similar product mix as nearby successful local businesses BookPeople and Waterloo Records. The study found that, despite increasing sales of both books and music, Borders will actually result in a decrease in economic activity to Austin. The City of Austin previously granted $2.1 million in development incentives for the project, of which $710,000 has been used. The developer is now seeking additional incentives for the next stage of the project. People are worried about our economic downturn and how to 'Keep Austin Austin' said Bill Spelman, Chair of Liveable City Board of Directors. 6th and Lamar is a symbol of what's happening all over Austin. Our community needs to come together to redefine how we protect the things we care about, Spelman said. When the City of Austin is subsidizing a development, citizens have a right to hold the project to a different standard. Local retailers return more than three times as much economic value back to the community as chain retailers like Borders. Specifically, on an annual basis, the report estimates $4.1 million for Waterloo Records, $2.8 million for BookPeople, with only $800,000 for Borders. The study estimates that Borders will divert $11 to $14 million from local success stories BookPeople and Waterloo Records over five years. Dan Houston, a partner at Civic Economics, said, The proposed Borders at 6th and Lamar will yield a net loss to the local economy. Moreover, previous decisions have placed the City in the position of subsidizing such an outcome. Robin Rather, research director for Liveable City, explained, Local merchants keep much more of their labor, profits and spending here instead of out of town. Shopping at local businesses instead of national chains with equivalent products and prices injects three times as much money back into Austin's economy. Dan Houston of Civic Economics added, The study also shows that if each area household spent $100 during the holidays at local stores rather than at national chains, the impact on the Austin economy would be as much as $10 million. For each $100 spent by consumers, the total local economic impact from Borders is only $13 - while the same amount spent at Waterloo or BookPeople yields over three times as much - $45. Bill Spelman said that the study suggests that current City development program needs to be more sensitive to local businesses. We must consider the broader impacts of public decisions if we hope to ensure that Austin retains its unique local culture. Re-developing this corner is important, but it must be done without hurting the economy and nearby local businesses. The City Council is expected to act on the project during the early part of 2003. Rather said, Liveable City hopes this study raises questions that will lead to a better community dialogue. Clearly the situation requires more in-depth discussion and creative resolution before the Council or the developer takes further action. Copies of the full report are available from Mark Yznaga at
[biofuel] James Woolsey Biofuel Interview, Part 2 (Conclusion)
This has been one of my favorite all-time evworld.com interviews. I thought that the interview subject made many unusually direct-to-the-debate points. Furthermore, he seemed able to keep focused on the alt-fuel issue and the political ties to it, and to acknowledge the extremely wide variety of political rationales that we all find, without tying himself in knots. I don't understand why more folks can't achieve this. Now, in posting this to the biofuel group (where there is a lot of international diversity and recent political clamor and a lot of strong well-researched opining on ethanol issues) and the renewable group, I realize that some here may find, for one reason or another, that they do not like the article as much as I. So be it. If anyone sees a specific point they'd like to debate or discuss, please point it out. For my money, Mr. Woolsey made so many interesting points that I am hard-pressed to choose one to discuss, but I will: http://evworld.com/databases/printit.cfm?storyid=508 He sees the introduction of small scale biomass technology in developing countries without oil reserves and often saddled by huge international debt, as a way to help those countries ease themselves out from these financial burdens. A large part of that is for imported petroleum, he tells EV World. I call this a potential alliance between the cheap hawks, the do-gooders, the farmers and the tree-huggers. We've got the beginnings of a fairly substantial coalition, he concludes An interesting (to me) way of looking at things. He spoke at some length of how, in his view, biofuel production at a local level could help out an economy in a nascient economy. I had to wonder what Keith would think of that. For example, you could view the following as sort of patronizing, but I still thought it had some meat on it: If you look at a country like Nigeria, he observes, the Niger delta has one of the world's great oil supplies and it's sitting there pumping. People who live on top of it aren't getting any benefit from that. There are rebellions from time to time. They are poor tribesmen. Nobody is using [the oil] to help them. If they are subsistence farmers and they have an acre or two of land to grow crops for their family, if they can take the agricultural waste to a nearby biomass ethanol facility and produce transportation fuel, that's an extra bit of income for them, maybe if its only fifty or a hundred dollars a year, and they are making only three or four hundred dollars a year, that's substantial change. Note that, as we speak, Nigeria seems to be in the midst of civil unrest, continuing to interrupt its oil flow. Aren't they the sixth largest supplier to the states or something? Nigerian low output was one of the reasons for the rise in the price of oil these last few months. So, that reason has not been removed, although others have been and the price seems to have turned downward: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CO/43 There does seem to have been a corresponding drop in unleaded gas as traded on the exchanges: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/UG/43 There has *not* been *any* substantial drop in the price of unleaded gas, at the pump, down the street from where I live. $2.19 at the shell station, for 87 octane, just 3 cents (1.2% or so) drop from the localized down-the-street-highs of $2.22 last week. This hasn't been surprising to me. At-the-pump prices do come down, eventually, but they are seemingly sticky, sort of quick to go up, and somewhat more reluctant to come down, or so it sometimes seems. Conspiracy theorists around here often point this out as a primary example of gouging. Most business people, in my view, are out to conspire to maximize most or all of their profit (heaven forbid), though it's a tricky thing because when you have a monopoly, or are perceived to have achieved one, then public opinion will be directed against you more strongly, and rightly so. The pace with which the prices come down does seem to me, as a consumer, like a betrayal of sorts at times, but right now there's nothing I can do about it. I look forward to a greater competition and diversity in fuels so perhaps this pace would be quickened. And maybe we could get rid of this insulting 9/10 of a cent that all gas sold in the U.S. (don't know about elsewhere) seems to have. I don't know of any other industries where the sellers feel compelled to insult the purchasers in this way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of
Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil
I have no experience with that engine. All the tests and experience's we have had, and those of our RD team at Greasel, indicate there are no concerns with DI engines. This is after much discussion with injector pump manufacturers, combustion professionals, and engine designers. The key is starting on biodiesel (or diesel), getting the WVO to 170F before switchover, and flushing with biodiesel (or diesel) at shutdown. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Gary Gluyas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil Steve Obviously you are doing it! - I'd like to ask you a question or two. And anyone else who may have the time? thanks. What is your opinion on Direct Injection - say a 3 cylinder Ford Dexta (circa 1958) tractor running WVO for electricity generation - PROVIDING of course the WVO tank is heated? Gary - Original Message - From: Steve Spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil You will hear much about how TDI's can'/shouldn't run on WVO, usually from those who have never done it. We beg to differ, and have been running them for 2 years now, The dissidents will tell you 2 years (and over 50k miles) is not a long enough time period to tall, but fail to indicate what mileage they would accept as proof. Meanwhile, we keep driving. In the interests of peace and love, any non-direct injected engine will work wonderfully if the oil is heated properly (there is disagreement on what properly means as well). US kit makers include: greasel (which we sell) greasecar greasemonkey (seems to have disappeared) Canada has Neoteric. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ben Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: [biofuel] Various Diesels and Waste Veggie Oil I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge regarding what small diesels run best on used veggie oil. I have read much information on the controversy about DI engines and their ability to run properly and long-term on WVO. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this? I am also looking into older mercedes (S-class in particular) along with newer VW TDI's and older VW's. I've heard that mercedes engines can almost run on lard. Also, there are a slew of conversion kits out there, mostly from Europe - any recommendations? Thanks in advance and cheers, -- Ben - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
sounds like a synchronous ac motor. never heard it called a rewritable. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating electricity. Filip Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of)
we use wood heat in the winter, and solar heat in the summer to heat water. see http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2003/fireandwater.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: bratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) I remember a grey water system article in Mother Earth News where the heat was recovered from waste water , and used to flush the toilets. There was a system where heat was stored in barrels of water in the basement as well. Perhaps someone has an index from Mother Earth and can find the articles. Heating by solar is quite common, where sunshine is available. Where I live we are very short of daylight hours in winter when we need the heat. Also there is the freezing problem when circulating water outdoors in winter. Some manufacturers claim to have all climate systems that work. I read about one such system at http://www.solarroofs.com/ They have an automatic shut down built in so when freezing happens, it drains the outdoor system. To have a system work here in the bitter cold north, you would have to run antifreeze and a heat exchanger to get any appreciable run time in winter. EdB - Original Message - From: Thor Skov To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 5:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] A biofuels question (sort of) OK, I lied, this isn't about biofuels per se, but rather about home energy generation. I am rebuilding my house in Seattle, and want to go with passive solar heating supplemented with an efficient wood fireplace insert (see, biofuels!). My question is about solar water heating. I'd like to use solar panels and recaptured waste water heat to preheat water, store it in tanks, and then pipe it to electric on-demand heaters at the point of usage. Does anyone know of a design for such a system? I really know nothing about such a system, but am frantically trying to educate myself with whatever materials I can find. Any leads or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thor Skov __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
In a message dated 3/25/03 1:06:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..I'm ALL for our Armed Forces using Bio-fuels, I talk about it all the time. I think about 98% of our Vehicles ARE diesel or Kero(air) powered. I think only the civilian based Govt. cars and vans(and some of these are diesel now) are gas powered. Bio-diesel and hybrid cars in the mil. could Add great flexibility and save Tax payers a good amount of $ I would think. Jenn Have you seen the fuel reforming units made by Aspen Technologies? They were designed to allow military units carrying diesel or kerosene to reform either fuel for gas cooking and water heating, and should be usable for bio based oils. This would be an interesting technology to explore for gasoline engines, I think. http://www.idatech.com/technology/fuel_processors.html http://www.aspensystems.com/tech.html The latter link used to describe a fuel reforming unit. http://www.tekkie.com/innovagen.htm robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind .I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: James Woolsey Biofuel Interview, Part 2 (Conclusion)
Hi MM This has been one of my favorite all-time evworld.com interviews. I thought that the interview subject made many unusually direct-to-the-debate points. Furthermore, he seemed able to keep focused on the alt-fuel issue and the political ties to it, and to acknowledge the extremely wide variety of political rationales that we all find, without tying himself in knots. I don't understand why more folks can't achieve this. Now, in posting this to the biofuel group (where there is a lot of international diversity and recent political clamor and a lot of strong well-researched opining on ethanol issues) and the renewable group, I realize that some here may find, for one reason or another, that they do not like the article as much as I. So be it. A major reservation I have with this whole line of thought is the demonizing of the Middle East, and especially Saudi Arabia, because of the US dependence on their oil. What this thinking leaves out, evades, is that it's highly unlikely that Saudi Arabia would be the repressive place it still is were it not for the long-standing and heavy-handed influence there of the US and the (mostly US) oil corporations, which have propped up the Saudi regime no matter what. Now that it's finally become the game of consequences that was so predictable from the start, the US (as usual) just wants to walk away, leaving its mess behind, as it's done twice in Afghanistan and will almost certainly do in Iraq. Re Afghanistan, despite all the promises: The Bush administration has shown that it has a very short attention span on post-conflict humanitarian efforts. The White House didn't request a single dollar for humanitarian aid to Afghanistan in this year's budget -- Congress had to take the unusual step of adding in $300 million. This evasion kind of knocks the props out from under Mr Woolsey, IMO, and many others with him. If anyone sees a specific point they'd like to debate or discuss, please point it out. For my money, Mr. Woolsey made so many interesting points that I am hard-pressed to choose one to discuss, but I will: http://evworld.com/databases/printit.cfm?storyid=508 He sees the introduction of small scale biomass technology in developing countries without oil reserves and often saddled by huge international debt, as a way to help those countries ease themselves out from these financial burdens. A large part of that is for imported petroleum, he tells EV World. I call this a potential alliance between the cheap hawks, the do-gooders, the farmers and the tree-huggers. We've got the beginnings of a fairly substantial coalition, he concludes An interesting (to me) way of looking at things. He spoke at some length of how, in his view, biofuel production at a local level could help out an economy in a nascient economy. I had to wonder what Keith would think of that. For example, you could view the following as sort of patronizing, but I still thought it had some meat on it: If you look at a country like Nigeria, he observes, the Niger delta has one of the world's great oil supplies and it's sitting there pumping. People who live on top of it aren't getting any benefit from that. There are rebellions from time to time. They are poor tribesmen. Nobody is using [the oil] to help them. If they are subsistence farmers and they have an acre or two of land to grow crops for their family, if they can take the agricultural waste to a nearby biomass ethanol facility and produce transportation fuel, that's an extra bit of income for them, maybe if its only fifty or a hundred dollars a year, and they are making only three or four hundred dollars a year, that's substantial change. Well, yes, in a fumbling sort of way, but at least he's not blind to it all. Why, though, does he pick on Nigeria and the 3rd World rather than the community level in the US? He talks a bit of reviving hard-hit local economies in the US with local biofuels production, but doesn't really seem to see the need to decentralize energy production itself (and much besides). He's not clear on this issue - he should pay a visit to the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. He does know of it - elsewhere he's quoted the ILSR's David Morris, but it's a fumbling awareness. But then I wouldn't expect someone with Mr Woolsey's background to be quite comfortable with the idea of self-reliant local communities, in the US or anywhere else. Typically, he skirts the real problems in the Niger delta, it's MUCH worse than that. There's more than a hint of this noxious idea that the rest of the world is only there to serve as a sort of Walmart to supply America's needs and greeds, with the only issue to be considered being what's printed on the price tag. Sort of patronizing, yes. Well, that's an attitude you'll find elsewhere in the OECD, and though the US is probably the worst culprit, it's only a metter of degree. But yes, MM, it is an interesting piece, and I
[biofuel] Trends in New Crops and New Uses
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/pdf/default.html Trends in New Crops and New Uses Proceedings of the fifth National Symposium New Crops and New Uses Strength in Diversity Links to pdf files. CONTENTS 1. New Crops and Bio-based Products 2. International New Crop Development 3. Cereals and Pseudocereals and Grain Legumes 4. Edible Oilseeds 5. Industrial Oilseeds 6. Rubber Crops 7. Biomass Crops 8. Fibers 9. Fruits 10. Vegetables 11. Ornamentals 12. Herbs, Medicinals, and Aromatics List of Contributors PREFACE-Dennis Ray, Jules Janick, Dave Dierig, Robert Myers, and Carmela Bailey PART I: NEW CROP ISSUES NEW CROPS AND BIO-BASED PRODUCTS * US Agriculture and National Security-R. James Woolsey * The New Petroleum-Richard G. Lugar and R. James Woolsey * The Bio-based Economy-Ralph W.F. Hardy * Ethanol From Cellulose: A General Review-P.C. Badger * Biofuels: The European Experience-Melvyn F. Askew * Utilizing New Crops to Grow the Biobased Market-Shari Miller, Curtis Scharf, and Mark Miller * Canola-based Motor Oils-Duane L. Johnson, Blaine Rhodes, and Robert Allen * Connecting a Worldwide Network of New Crops and New Uses Researchers, Entrepreneurs, and Corporations through an Internet-Based Communication System for Biobased Products-Peter A. Nelson INTERNATIONAL NEW CROP DEVELOPMENT * International New Crop Development Incentives, Barriers, Processes And Progress: An Australian Perspective-R.J. Fletcher * Interactive European Network for Industrial Crops and Their Applications-M.F. Askew * New Crop Development: The Canadian Experience-S.F. Blade and A.E. Slinkard * Commercialization of South African Indigenous Crops: Aspects of Research and Cultivation of Products-Emmy Reinten and J.H. Coetzee * A Framework for the Development of New Crops Industries in South Africa-J.G. Theron * Nontraditional Crop Production in Africa for Export-Bharat P. Singh * Quality Assurance and Quality Control for African Natural Plant Products from the Ground Up-Ya'akov Tadmor, Elton Jefthas, Jackie Goliath, Marianna Smith, Petrus Langenhoven, Dan Acquaye, Rodolfo Juliani, Wudeneh Letchamo, Erica Renaud, Noah Zimba, Ilya Raskin, Jerry Brown, and James E. Simon PART II: STATUS OF NEW CROPS AND NEW USES CEREALS, PSEUDOCEREALS, AND GRAIN LEGUMES * Progress with Proso, Pearl and Other Millets-David D. Baltensperger * Non-Shattering Grain Amaranth Populations-D.M. Brenner * Response of Grain Amaranth Production to Density and Fertilization in Tarija, Bolivia-V. Apaza-Gutierrez, A. Romero-Saravia, F.R. Guilln-Portal, and D.D. Baltensperger * Quinoa Saponins: Concentration and Composition Analysis-Jos Bernardo Solz-Guerrero, Diana Jasso de Rodrguez, Ral Rodrguez-Garca, Jos Luis Angulo-Snchez, and Guadalupe Mndez-Padilla * Evaluation of Lupin as a New Food/Feed Crop in the US Mid-Atlantic Region-Harbans L. Bhardwaj EDIBLE OILSEEDS * Canola: An Emerging Oilseed Crop-Paul L. Raymer * Prospects of Canola as an Alternative Winter Crop in Virginia-David E. Starner, Anwar A. Hamama, and Harbans L. Bhardwaj * Performance of Canola in Southern Sonora, Mxico-Sergio Muoz-Valenzuela, Greg Buzza, and Roberto Avalos-Prez * NuSun Sunflower Oil: Redirection of an Industry-Larry W. Kleingartner * Grain Yield and Fatty Acid Composition of Sunflower Seed for Cultivars Developed Under Dry Land Conditions-Diana Jasso de Rodrguez, Bliss S. Phillips, Ral Rodriguez-Garca, and Jos Luis Angulo-Snchez * Characterization of Proteins from Sunflower Leaves and Seeds: Relationship of Biomass and Seed Yield-Diana Jasso de Rodr'guez, Jorge Romero-Garca, Ral Rodrguez-Garca, and Jos Luis Angulo Snchez * Potential Source of Reduced Palmitic and Stearic Fatty Acids in Sunflower Oil From a Population of Wild Helianthus annuus-G.J. Seiler * Food, Industrial, Nutraceutical, and Pharmaceutical Uses of Sesame Genetic Resources-J. Bradley Morris * Progress in Mechanizing Sesame in the US Through Breeding-D. Ray Langham and Terry Wiemers * Nigerseed: Specialty Grain Opportunity for Midwestern US-J. Quinn and R.L. Myers * Safflower Management and Adaptation for the High Plains-David D. Baltensperger, Glen Frickel, Drew Lyon, Jim Krall, and Tom Nightingale * Production of Pumpkin for Oil-F. Bavec, L. Gril, S. Grobelnik-Mlakar, and M. Bavec INDUSTRIAL OILSEEDS * Meadowfoam Industry Update-Gary D. Jolliff and George D. Hoffman * Farmer-University Collaboration with Meadowfoam Research-George D. Hoffman, Doug Duerst, and Gary D. Jolliff * Introduction and Establishment of Meadowfoam as a New Crop in Virginia: History and Lessons Learned-Harbans L. Bhardwaj * An Ovule Culture Technique for Producing Interspecific Lesquerella Hybrids-Pernell Tomasi, David Dierig, and Gail Dahlquist * Cuphea Growth and Development: Responses to Temperature-Russ W. Gesch, Nancy W. Barbour, Frank Forcella, and Ward B. Voorhees * Rooting Characteristics and
[biofuel] Fwd: Re: Biofuel business in developing countries.
Cross-post. To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com From: mauro_knudsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 04:10:22 - Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biofuel business in developing countries. Hello Hakan: I«m working with biodiesel in Argentina, and after read your articule I have to say that I«m really agree with all your ideas expresed that paragraphs. In special with your conception about will consume in the future the last oil reserves (the industrialized countries, of course!), there is NO PLACE for our third world countries in this oil reserves. In fact I belive that if our countries take the biofuels way, have a very big chance to overcome and get really strong economies. We can use biofuel while other countries fight by the oil, and this can save us and make our life easy and safe! Argentina have several advantages, we are the biggest vegetable oil exporter in the world (5 millon tonnes per year), we have we have up to 10 millon hectaries of unused land that could produce more than 2 tonnes of oil per hectarie with alternative oil crops, we have a very eficient crushing complex (similar in tecnology to the US soybean crushing complex). But our goberment don«t listen to us, we need biofuel politcs!!. That«s the problem. However our diesel fuel is expensive, and this is good for biofuels. I have some suggestions on how to create a biofuel business, I«m working in biodiesel process tecnology and I think that this could be one key. My objetive is to create the Fort T of biodiesel plants. So I develouping a plant work without use any chemical catalist, and this have several advantages: - The process can consume any crude vegetable oil or grease (without neutralize). - In every feedstock we obtain a minimum of 99% of biodiesel yield with not less than 97% conversion. - The process don«t make any soap. - The process don«t wash the biodiesel (because don«t have any soap and catalist trazes). - The procesing time is 6 minutes vs 1 to 6 hours in the convetional way. - The entire process use 4 time less energy than the others. - For the same capacity the plant is little (and cheaper). - The process is fully continuos. - The biodiesel obtained always have good quality. - The glicerine obtained have higher concentrations and less contaminants than in the other process. - The process don«t need operators. - The cost for procesing its cheaper. - And the most important, the process is very eficient at any scale!! So, my idea is start producing biodiesel with this plant (at very low scale) in coops with farmers who will procesing their own seeds to produce their own fuel. This could be very auspicious, because we are producing a high quality products, at low cost, without need a big invest. I think that with this technology we open up and support the possibilities of a decentralized a biofuel production. We also are researching the alternative oil crops (Energy Crops), this could help us in the medium term (5 - 10 years), because set a new crop in arid lands, needs a lot of invest and research (to take care the local enviroment). But I think that in the future, most of vegetable oil for biodiesel will come from alternative crops because in 2020 will be 8.000 millons people in the world, and will need a lots of food!. Thank you very much for think in us!, the developing countries. Best regards, Mauro Knudsen. --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Some time ago I started to write on Biofuel business in developing countries. I now reach a stage where it could be beneficial to ask for comments and suggestions from the list members. The most important suggestions on how to create and organize a biofuel business are not ready, I estimate that it is 20% more needed but you can look at it, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofueldev.shtml It should be of special interest if I can get comments from members working in developing countries. If you do not want to post your comments, please send them to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old
[biofuel] Re: Biofuel business in developing countries.
Cross-post. To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com From: Levent Yuceer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:09:01 +0200 Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuel business in developing countries. Hello Hakan, I have read your article biofuel business in developing countries with great interest. Thank you for considering developing countries. I am an organic chemistry professor from Turkey. (Although Turkey is now considered as an industrialised country but I am not so sure) I have been interested in biodiesel for some time and I beleive, as you suggested, this will be extremely important for every country in the future, especially for the developing countries. However, astonishingly, developed nations are far more interested in alternative fuels than the developing ones. As commented by Mauro Knudsen for Argentine, my country also has no planing and politics on biofuels as yet. We are producing important amount of olive oil, sun flower oil, cotton seed oil and some poppy seed oil.However all these are used primarily for food purposes. Never the less, the production can be increased if economics gets right. Although we have great agricultural lands to be caltivated we are importing soybeans and soybean oil from south america. I beleive this is due to the wrong agricultural policies. I was told that some soybean production has started in south Turkey. Rape seed oil production was prohibited to prevent any accidental uses of it in food oil. But Kanola oil (nontoxic version of rape seed) is produced. So, we have sufficient sources for veg. oils however, I think the prices are not right for the production of biodiesel at the moment. Bulk crude veg.oil prices (excluding olive oil which is too expensive) are about 0,7-0.8 dollars /kg at the moment. The petroleum diesel sells at the pump for 0.9 dollars/L (about 3.5 dollars per gallon). I don't know the availability and price of the waste veg oil at the moment but I am trying to find out. There is one more problem in this country. There is so much government tax ( I was told 200%, plus VAT) on the petroleum fuels that the government is getting a good income from the sales. Therefore I am sure they will not permit the sale of biofuel at the moment without any tax. In some EU countries there are tax reductions to promote the production of biofuels. But , it seems this promotion is not possible in this country for the near future. One possibility is to find an alternative cheap oil source. I know that some willage people press oils using mixed seeds (mainly poppy seed and sunflower seed) and these mixed oils sells cheaper. So at the moment I keep an eye on the developments. I am not just an academic. I am also a small shareholder and consultant of a small local company and we have produced some experimental FAME. It works easily as you all know but we did not use it as a fuel instead we converted it to soft soap and sold it. I hope that these are any interest to you. By the way, I also read your comments on the iraq war. No one is defending Saddam here in this country but they beleive that, USA action was not necessary at this stage. As you also pointed out USA is loosing its friends and restoration of this will take a long time. I beleive USA as a leader country, should do everything possible to keep the peace in the world and should not promote war at all. Saying this, I would also like to point out that my own government also deserves critisizm. With my best wishes Levent Yuceer - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:29 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Biofuel business in developing countries. Hi All, Some time ago I started to write on Biofuel business in developing countries. I now reach a stage where it could be beneficial to ask for comments and suggestions from the list members. The most important suggestions on how to create and organize a biofuel business are not ready, I estimate that it is 20% more needed but you can look at it, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofueldev.shtml It should be of special interest if I can get comments from members working in developing countries. If you do not want to post your comments, please send them to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities ** A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations,
Re: [biofuel] Trends in New Crops and New Uses
On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 09:33 AM, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/pdf/default.html Trends in New Crops and New Uses Proceedings of the fifth National Symposium Wow, thanks for posting this link,Keith -- this will keep me busy for weeks! -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?)
zero might be a stretch, but still... http://www.iav.de/IAV_Internet/News/media/MTZpdf/zee_e.pdf seems a good candidate for SVO/WVO/PPO. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Retrieving the gold...
In a message dated 2/25/03 7:19:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pumping coldish WVo with a dc pump is one of the most complicated things I've found about this process. I just gave up and I use something plastic as a pitcher to scoop the stuff. more recently I've taken to using a 4 gallon bucket to do it (and have a bigger bucket to then put the dirty bucket into so as not to get oil all over my vehicle). here's what doens't work too well: the 12V pumps that SVOers commonly use are the 12V, $70 transfer pumps from Northern Tool (also sold by Greasel and greasecar and others I believe). These things come with a fuse- so you'd think, why, I can't burn up this pump, the fuse will blow. But I know many, many people (oh, about 5) who have cooked the wiring of these things while the fuse sits there and does nothing (other than letting loads of electricity flow right on through where it makes a smoky mess of the other wiring). Northern can't even tell you much about these- they're made in China somewhere and northern.. well, never mind. Just don't try and get customer service from places like that. anyway if you are using really nice oil that's liquid they're probably OK-ish, but I don't recommend them. (and in Arizona you won't have too much trouble with the liquid part like 70% of the year due to the temperatures) I have heard but did not experience myself that the cheap Simer Blue 12V utility pumps (thats the Pudl-Scooper deal from some Ace Hardware stores) can work OK but knowing Simer's reputation I wonder about this- they're cheap, and they're lightweight-looking. I'm experimenting with a 12V macerator toilet pump from a boat marine toilet, but it's not continuous-duty rated and I'm still experimenting... and some expensive bilge pumps would probably work too but I haven't tried it yet. anyway, that brings me to AC! There's much more of a choice in AC pumps- the motors are much heavier-duty, plus you have more of a choice in what's available. I use a Grainger (Teel brand actually) 'fryer filter' pump (a gear pump with an huge heavy 8-amp motor) that's been pretty bulletproof (we used it at the biodiesel coop for a year and it hasn't broken yet despite serious abuse). it's pricey- $220, and it's heavy, but it's designed for moving hot WVO around. If you can get an arrangement with the restaurant to let you run an extension cord to the oil dumpster, an ac pump is the way to go. If you want to use an inverter I've found that many pumps are a pretty big draw... Remember that all pumps push better than they 'suck'- so use a short hose on the intake end and a long one on the outgoing end. A foot valve is a good addition to a cheap non-self-priming pump. It is a check valve with a strainer. But scooping the stuff works OK if you're not a completely messy person. Also drill-driven pumps are sometimes suggested. I';ve found them useful for biodiesel moving, but I've destroyed a lot of them using them to pump oil- the rubber impeller (?) gets gummed up, then quickly tears loose from the steel shaft. I haven't tried this for the more expensive ($25) rebuildable versions sold by West Marine and other boat catalogs- I've only used the $5 Craftsman/sears variety- great for moving biodiesel, poor for WVO. If you're a DIY'er , mating an engine oil sump pump to some kind of appropriate motor (maybe even a cordless drill for small amounts of oil pumped) should work really well- they're selfpriming up to a point, and are 'bulletproof' gear pumps. The one I got came from a Chevy 350 and it has a really difficult driver to adapt to a motor without welding or machine work, so I 'lucked out' - not sure what model engines to recommend asking for at the junkyard, but some of them come with a female hex type drive, or other simple ones to mate a motor to. good luck, mark Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? Anyone try this yet? Respectfully yours, Jennifer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
[biofuel] Anybody Using This First Amendment? - Greg Palast
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15404 Anybody Using This First Amendment? By Eric Bosse, AlterNet March 17, 2003 American investigative reporter Greg Palast writes for the London Observer and reports for BBC news. His stories have appeared in the annual Project Censored lists but rarely in mainstream American media. Palast's book, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, now out in an expanded paperback edition with 40 percent new material, made the New York Times' Best Sellers list in its first week in stores. In the opening chapter, Palast details the ways Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris rigged Florida's 2000 vote by hiring a data mining company, DataBase Technologies, a subsidiary of ChoicePoint. Harris instructed Database to sift through Florida's voter rolls to eliminate felons, suspected felons, and people with names or birth dates similar to felons. In all, according to the company's documents, some 91,000 people were wrongly barred from voting. Of those, more than ninety percent were Democrats. The majority were black. Q: Is ChoicePoint or one of their subsidiaries still on contract in Florida? A: No. Well, they won't be. They are getting out of the racial purge business, but they're moving into something new and better. If you read Forbes Magazine or the new edition of my book, Forbes says, We don't know who has lost the war on terror, but we do know who has won: ChoicePoint, Inc. They're the big contractor in Total Information Awareness. They've got the big DNA database they're keeping for the new vampiric agency. ChoicePoint owns the companies that are going to do the airport profiling, the immigration intake profiling, and, most importantly, these are the guys that have the database of over 20 billion records on Americans. Now, when I say 20 billion, that was like a year ago. It's got to be way up there now. They had it at 20 billion and growing phenomenally. Until now, for 200 years, you could not go into private records without a search warrant. Under the USA Patriot Act - and I mean the one in force, we don't have to wait for the second shoe to drop - for the first time in American history the feds will be able to go through private records, the private database. They call it data mining. They're going to be hunting through our records without a search warrant, on a massive data-crunching basis. And so, ChoicePoint is going to ring the cash register big time. Q: Your book implies that ChoicePoint is affiliated with the political right. A: It isn't implied. Look at their board. It looks like a Republican country club meeting. You've got Ken Langone, the investor who was also the treasurer for the Rudy Giuliani for Senate campaign. You've got Bernard Marcus, the founder of Home Depot, a big Republican sugar daddy. You've got Vin Weber, the ultra-right ex-congressman who is their Washington lobbyist. You've got Howard Safir, the New York Police Chief of Repression. They've got all these Republican politicos like George Bruder out of Florida, who was deeply involved in their operations for getting rid of the dark vote. So, look, it's a Republican firm. Their company was chosen after they replaced a company that was only being paid about five thousand dollars a year, and Database got paid something like two million. What is it with American reporters? I mean, don't they find that interesting? I mean, if it's not in a press release, they think you might as well just throw it away. Q: You also write about how the Bush administration stifled investigation of Saudis. A: Yeah, well, I should stop saying that because it doesn't help the war effort. You know, a great investigator like Bob Woodward wrote that book Bush at War. I should feel ashamed about bringing up how Bush got us into war through his buddies, the Saudis. People like Mike Moore make a lot out of the Bush connections to the Bin Laden family. That's useful to know, but I think there are more important connections. For example, the BBC and Guardian reporting teams have information which is solid from two separate sources that there was a meeting in 1996 where Saudi billionaires agreed to fund Al Quaeda. It was kind of like, Stop blowing up our country, get out of Saudi Arabia - what does it cost to get you to go play in Afghanistan? The problem with that, besides giving money that not only terrorizes Afghanistan but also ends up in the pockets of people taking flying lessons with no intention to land, is that you need to follow that money. Oh, by the way, a couple days after the attack on the World Trade Center, did you notice that we suddenly had a list of the financial institutions and charities which were funding terrorists? They didn't have that on September 8th? No one asked, Hey, when did you guys come up with this? Boy, you must have stayed up all night, huh? You just uncovered all these guys in two days! No, the stuff was in the files and not being
[biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer
The face of Iraqi suffering Robert Fisk toured a Baghdad hospital the day after the bombing. He writes in the Independent (U.K.), There is something sick, obscene about these hospital visits. We bomb. They suffer. Then we turn up and take pictures of their wounded children. Read about five-year old Doha Suleil who has lost all movement in her left leg because of shrapnel from the cruise missile attack. http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=389918 This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer Veteran war reporter Robert Fisk tours the Baghdad hospital to see the wounded after a devastating night of air strikes 23 March 2003 Donald Rumsfeld says the American attack on Baghdad is as targeted an air campaign as has ever existed but he should not try telling that to five-year-old Doha Suheil. She looked at me yesterday morning, drip feed attached to her nose, a deep frown over her small face as she tried vainly to move the left side of her body. The cruise missile that exploded close to her home in the Radwaniyeh suburb of Baghdad blasted shrapnel into her tiny legs (they were bound up with gauze) and, far more seriously, into her spine. Now she has lost all movement in her left leg. Her mother bends over the bed and straightens her right leg which the little girl thrashes around outside the blanket. Somehow, Doha's mother thinks that if her child's two legs lie straight beside each other, her daughter will recover from her paralysis. She was the first of 101 patients brought to the Al-Mustansaniya College Hospital after America's blitz on the city began on Friday night. Seven other members of her family were wounded in the same cruise missile bombardment; the youngest, a one-year-old baby, was being breastfed by her mother at the time. There is something sick, obscene about these hospital visits. We bomb. They suffer. Then we turn up and take pictures of their wounded children. The Iraqi minister of health decides to hold an insufferable press conference outside the wards to emphasise the bestial nature of the American attack. The Americans say that they don't intend to hurt children. And Doha Suheil looks at me and the doctors for reassurance, as if she will awake from this nightmare and move her left leg and feel no more pain. So let's forget, for a moment, the cheap propaganda of the regime and the equally cheap moralising of Messrs Rumsfeld and Bush, and take a trip around the Al-Mustansaniya College Hospital. For the reality of war is ultimately not about military victory and defeat, or the lies about coalition forces which our embedded journalists are now peddling about an invasion involving only the Americans, the British and a handful of Australians. War, even when it has international legitimacy which this war does not is primarily about suffering. Take 50-year-old Amel Hassan, a peasant woman with tattoos on her arms and legs but who now lies on her hospital bed with massive purple bruises on her shoulders - they are now twice their original size - who was on her way to visit her daughter when the first American missile struck Baghdad. I was just getting out of the taxi when there was a big explosion and I fell down and found my blood everywhere, she told me. It was on my arms, my legs, my chest. Amel Hassan still has multiple shrapnel wounds in her chest. Her five-year-old daughter Wahed lies in the next bed, whimpering with pain. She had climbed out of the taxi first and was almost at her aunt's front door when the explosion cut her down. Her feet are still bleeding although the blood has clotted around her toes and is staunched by the bandages on her ankles and lower legs. Two little boys are in the next room. Sade Selim is 11; his brother Omar is 14. Both have shrapnel wounds to their legs and chest. Isra Riad is in the third room with almost identical injuries, in her case shrapnel wounds to the legs as she ran in terror from her house into her garden as the blitz began. Imam Ali is 23 and has multiple shrapnel wounds in her abdomen and lower bowel. Najla Hussein Abbas still tries to cover her head with a black scarf but she cannot hide the purple wounds to her legs. Multiple shrapnel wounds. After a while, multiple shrapnel wounds sounds like a natural disease which, I suppose among a people who have suffered more than 20 years of war it is. And all this, I asked myself yesterday, was all this for 11 September 2001? All this was to strike back at our attackers, albeit that Doha Suheil, Wahed Hassan and Imam Ali have nothing absolutely nothing to do with those crimes against humanity, any more than has the awful Saddam? Who decided, I wonder, that these children, these young women, should suffer for 11 September? Wars repeat themselves. Always, when we come to visit those we have bombed, we have the same question. In Libya in 1986, I remember how American reporters would repeatedly
Re: [biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer
What was just as obscene was the crush of reporters rushing and pushing along the corridors of the hospital to get their own 'scoop' Explain why there has to be at least 30 of these vultures, don't they trust each? Have they no feelings for the victims? Couldn't they just send in one representative from their 'pack' to do the interview? Ken - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:45 PM Subject: [biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer The face of Iraqi suffering Robert Fisk toured a Baghdad hospital the day after the bombing. He writes in the Independent (U.K.), There is something sick, obscene about these hospital visits. We bomb. They suffer. Then we turn up and take pictures of their wounded children. Read about five-year old Doha Suleil who has lost all movement in her left leg because of shrapnel from the cruise missile attack. http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=389918 This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer Veteran war reporter Robert Fisk tours the Baghdad hospital to see the wounded after a devastating night of air strikes 23 March 2003 Donald Rumsfeld says the American attack on Baghdad is as targeted an air campaign as has ever existed but he should not try telling that to five-year-old Doha Suheil. She looked at me yesterday morning, drip feed attached to her nose, a deep frown over her small face as she tried vainly to move the left side of her body. The cruise missile that exploded close to her home in the Radwaniyeh suburb of Baghdad blasted shrapnel into her tiny legs (they were bound up with gauze) and, far more seriously, into her spine. Now she has lost all movement in her left leg. Her mother bends over the bed and straightens her right leg which the little girl thrashes around outside the blanket. Somehow, Doha's mother thinks that if her child's two legs lie straight beside each other, her daughter will recover from her paralysis. She was the first of 101 patients brought to the Al-Mustansaniya College Hospital after America's blitz on the city began on Friday night. Seven other members of her family were wounded in the same cruise missile bombardment; the youngest, a one-year-old baby, was being breastfed by her mother at the time. There is something sick, obscene about these hospital visits. We bomb. They suffer. Then we turn up and take pictures of their wounded children. The Iraqi minister of health decides to hold an insufferable press conference outside the wards to emphasise the bestial nature of the American attack. The Americans say that they don't intend to hurt children. And Doha Suheil looks at me and the doctors for reassurance, as if she will awake from this nightmare and move her left leg and feel no more pain. So let's forget, for a moment, the cheap propaganda of the regime and the equally cheap moralising of Messrs Rumsfeld and Bush, and take a trip around the Al-Mustansaniya College Hospital. For the reality of war is ultimately not about military victory and defeat, or the lies about coalition forces which our embedded journalists are now peddling about an invasion involving only the Americans, the British and a handful of Australians. War, even when it has international legitimacy which this war does not is primarily about suffering. Take 50-year-old Amel Hassan, a peasant woman with tattoos on her arms and legs but who now lies on her hospital bed with massive purple bruises on her shoulders - they are now twice their original size - who was on her way to visit her daughter when the first American missile struck Baghdad. I was just getting out of the taxi when there was a big explosion and I fell down and found my blood everywhere, she told me. It was on my arms, my legs, my chest. Amel Hassan still has multiple shrapnel wounds in her chest. Her five-year-old daughter Wahed lies in the next bed, whimpering with pain. She had climbed out of the taxi first and was almost at her aunt's front door when the explosion cut her down. Her feet are still bleeding although the blood has clotted around her toes and is staunched by the bandages on her ankles and lower legs. Two little boys are in the next room. Sade Selim is 11; his brother Omar is 14. Both have shrapnel wounds to their legs and chest. Isra Riad is in the third room with almost identical injuries, in her case shrapnel wounds to the legs as she ran in terror from her house into her garden as the blitz began. Imam Ali is 23 and has multiple shrapnel wounds in her abdomen and lower bowel. Najla Hussein Abbas still tries to cover her head with a black scarf but she cannot hide the purple wounds to her legs. Multiple shrapnel wounds. After a while, multiple shrapnel wounds sounds like a natural disease which, I suppose among a people who have suffered more than 20 years of war it is. And
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Kirk, can you give some more detail please Ken - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators You can modulate (electrically rotate) the field so mechanical relationship is alterable, thus frequency. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:51 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators sounds like a synchronous ac motor. never heard it called a rewritable. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating electricity. Filip Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: James Woolsey Biofuel Interview, Part 2 (Conclusion)
Hi MM A major reservation I have with this whole line of thought is the demonizing of the Middle East, and especially Saudi Arabia, because of the US dependence on their oil. What this thinking leaves out, evades, is that it's highly unlikely that Saudi Arabia would be the repressive place it still is were it not for the long-standing and heavy-handed influence there of the US and the (mostly US) oil corporations, which have propped up the Saudi regime no matter what. Now that it's finally become the game of consequences that was so predictable from the start, the US (as usual) just wants to walk away, leaving its mess behind, as it's done twice in Afghanistan and will almost certainly do in Iraq. And Iran. Indeed. And and and. Many of us want us to stop buying quite as much from the M.E. precisely because we sort of want to take the pressure off. We'd like to see the problem corrected, including the problem of the U.S heavy-handedly manipulating folks' future. I'm not sure reticence on the problem of U.S. manipulation of the fate of nations always amounts to sanctioning of it or unawareness of it. I shouldn't think it does, no. Now, many of the issues are so confused, with so many different folks clamoring with so many different motivations, that for my part I tend to just make sure that I advocate what I see as a worth-discussing solution. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm unaware of or unconcerned about understanding the mess or its reasons. I know you're not unaware of that, nor unconcerned. Many are both, however, especially at the moment, to the extent of some truly appalling anti-Arab racism, which is being whipped up by unscrupulous parties for their own ends. I'd be very surprised if Mr Woolsey condoned that, he's not at all that insular, but reticence about these issues makes such highly unfortunate developments all the easier, doesn't it? It's true enough that all evil needs to prosper is that good men do nothing, and some of this stuff is evil, it's bloodcurdling. Maybe you've seen some of the stuff I've been seeing, it's far too vile to post here, or anywhere. There's this though, and much else: America's New Fugitives: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15416 Another problem is the inevitable super-tower-of-babble Political debate in a non-specifically-political forum. I'm not going to have another one here. I guess I'm saying that, on the issue of reticence on what you and others see as super-important issues, there can be more reasons for it, in an interview, or a biofuel forum, than unawareness or hostility. I don't know about Woolsey, but I wonder how he would answer your questions. Maybe he'd voice real interest in discussing the consequences of American heavy-handed manipulation and the politics of expediency which have killed so many. Maybe he wouldn't. I guess we have your guess registered pretty firmly. Oh? I wouldn't like to guess. I'd hope he would, but I wouldn't hold my breath. On the point you made about his association with Lugar, as apt as it may be to point that out, I also thought this article did as much as any I've read to help me understand how Big Corn is not the final answer to ethanol issues, but how there are other better more-viable more-realistic solutions. So, if Mr. Woolsey has been fully corrupted by his association with Mr. Lugar, then he's doing a poor job of helping those Big Corn interests. I don't know that he's been fully corrupted, but, Big Corn or not, I'd see him as belonging to that club, big and central, rather than small and local, and his rather groping statements on local economies seemed to confirm that. But, as I said, better than nothing. Lugar and Woolsey both represent Big Ethanol interests, Lugar's Big Corn, but BCI's interests are in cellulose. Possibly I was unfair in lumping BCI in with ADM, altogether different scales of big, and BCI doesn't have ADM's horrendous reputation. But compared to small they're both big. to have. I don't know of any other industries where the sellers feel compelled to insult the purchasers in this way. It's general merchandising practice, isn't it? Save! Buy now! Only $9.99! I don't think so. I don't know of any other industry, offhand, that breaks American currency (do they do this elsewhere? I don't know) down to tenths of a cent (for which there is no actual change). Oh, sorry, I didn't understand that, missed a decimal point. Yes, that is a bit off - Only $9.999! Hm. I wonder if it isn't even arguably illegal. Perhaps there are many other industries which do this, and I'm just not aware. Unit prices on bulk orders maybe, but not retail that I can think of. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to
Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul
Hakan, thanks, you are such a reassuring voice in this wilderness. The enquiry about the submarine U234 which was supposed to deliver war materials and plans to the japanese after the German capitulation and which was surrendered to the Americans on the ceasefire touched me for a number of points; Germany was converting coal to fuel oils and with Japan then in need of oil one wonders what the japs would have made of the process had fate not over taken them. Were they already converting coal as SA did later with Sasol I wonder. I did some work in SA on train detection, they were shipping coal out the the east in 6 loco 100 wagon trains, loaded train after loaded train going down the single track railroad and all coming back together empty. They can't be short of coal. Does anyone know if the South Africans are still using the Sasol process and what the economics of it are. Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Ken, It will pass Ken, this about the war etc.. The problem is that as discussion list, we are a very mixed bunch of people that have a strong interest together. The interest for biofuels is in its nature a social interest at the moment. You must have a very high degree of enthusiasm to be able to work and argue for biofuels. This brings us together and it is natural to discuss events among friends. Keith understand this and our need to share thoughts among us. It is good and for many a security valve. When such a disturbing event as the current war happens, it is bound to make waves among us. It will pass and we have to deal with some new realities. As Senator Robert Byrd said, (who actually started this Arrogance of power thread) Our friends are now afraid of us. Hakan At 08:42 PM 3/24/2003 +, you wrote: Hakan, I understand, but I am concerned Keith's belligerence is undermining his own position and arguments re the belligerents, Blair Bush. sauce for the goose etc. Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Ken, I am surprised that you could read this message in what I wrote. It is maybe needed that I once again have to say what I sad so many times, that I am afraid to embarrass Keith. I have never seen such a good moderator with sense for what people need to talk about in such a political issue as the energy questions. Sometimes almost all get a little derailed, but he show a large respect and patience with it. I think that it is symptomatic with all this concerns about this attack on Iraq. It is many nationalities on the list and many concerns. No wonder that it is discussed a lot, but at the same time the majority of the postings are valuable interchange of views. It is actually an opportunity the get a true international view from grass root level. The fact that it is so many against the attack and occupation, is representative for what the world thinks about it. According to my opinion, it is all about Iraqi oil and the future will prove it. You are already seeing this in what is happening. Hakan At 08:51 PM 3/23/2003 +, you wrote: Hakan, I think you are right as usual. It is time for Keith to moderate his responses. He is supposed to be the list moderator Ken - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Banning Paul Keith, I second this and think that Thor is right. I would be surprised if the members of this list supports name calling anyway, it is not my experience. Paul is only hurting himself and I do not think that it is going to escalate to a general behavior if you allow him to do that. Hakan At 09:25 PM 3/22/2003 -0800, you wrote: Keith, I sincerely hope you don't go through with your threat to censure Paul for his comments. I've believed in the sticks and stones approach to debate. If someone resorts to name calling they pretty much lose their audience (unless you're watching Jerry Springer or Rush Limbaugh) and render themselves ineffective. Personal insults are often the result of frustration from the inability to articulate one's thoughts, or from a lack of a good argument. And censorship looks like, well, censorship. Please reconsider. sincerely, thor skov Message: 15 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 03:22:14 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Arrogance of Power and a bunch of other war-related threads Paul
RE: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?)
What about Carroll Shelby's new project? http://www.ox2engine.com/home.htm -BRAH -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?) zero might be a stretch, but still... http://www.iav.de/IAV_Internet/News/media/MTZpdf/zee_e.pdf seems a good candidate for SVO/WVO/PPO. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1481650/R=0/*http:/www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_real /g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1481650/rand=296986633 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?)
fascinating. can't wait for more info. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?) What about Carroll Shelby's new project? http://www.ox2engine.com/home.htm -BRAH -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?) zero might be a stretch, but still... http://www.iav.de/IAV_Internet/News/media/MTZpdf/zee_e.pdf seems a good candidate for SVO/WVO/PPO. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1481650/R=0/*http:/www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_real /g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1481650/rand=296986633 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Electric generators
The first time I saw this it was used as an interim power supply until a diesel generator could be fired up and switched in. A massive flywheel supplied the interim power and of course speed was constantly decelerating. It is not a backyard get em going type thing. Electronics are involved. The customer needed a glitchless mainframe so cost was secondary. Kirk -Original Message- From: Ken Basterfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:38 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Kirk, can you give some more detail please Ken - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators You can modulate (electrically rotate) the field so mechanical relationship is alterable, thus frequency. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:51 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators sounds like a synchronous ac motor. never heard it called a rewritable. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating electricity. Filip Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Not to mention sounding very complicated and expensive. kirk wrote: The first time I saw this it was used as an interim power supply until a diesel generator could be fired up and switched in. A massive flywheel supplied the interim power and of course speed was constantly decelerating. It is not a backyard get em going type thing. Electronics are involved. The customer needed a glitchless mainframe so cost was secondary. Kirk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] other fuel sources from waste... plastics.
Hi all, I used to be a PhD in the polymer blends area. I attended a seminar from Melb Uni Chem eng where they were exploring the posibility of converting polymer waste back to high Q feed stocks - methanol, acetone, alcohol, etc. often by pyrolysis. In our home the majority of the rubbish that goes in the bin (and it is not much at that... seems we have dropped the amount of rubbish by 75% since abandoning the super markets and going to the Vic Market instead) is plastic bags. green scraps go to the chickens or the dog (if she manages to steal them from the bucket) glass, most metal, common plastics (PET, PP, HDPE) bottles go to the recycling. (tetrapacks! they get recycled! how the bloody hell do they manage that!!!) food, animal waste, food contaminated paper, even Al foil goes to the compost. that leaves mostly cling film (ldpe) plastic bags (pe and occasionally pp) and the occasional packaging (PE or PS) and the occasional PVC container... My question is - has anyone found a way to process these in the home? I am inspired by the discussion of wood gassifiers and mixing sawdust with waste oil. surely one could do the same with these materials? - well, being careful to avoid the PVC :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
One idea I heard was to make windmills with the rotor stator on the rim rather than have the generator at the centre. (As explained to me) the trade off is as follows: the bigger the windmill, the greater the structureal efficiency (more power per structure, the lower the required wind speed to extract power) Upper limit on centrally mounted generators is the cost of scaling up the generator not the bearing. Move the generating coil to the outer rim, have base mounted (tracking) linear motor at the bottom. You loose in that you have to make a ring rather than just blades, but you gain in that you can make a much bigger windmill for the same cost because the main cost is the centrally mounted generator. In addition, the most maintenance sensitive part is the motor, now mounted on the ground... On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:05 pm, filip.ponsaerts wrote: To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating electricity. Filip Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
seen the UPS flywheels? www.beakonpower.com I think... On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:36 am, kirk wrote: The first time I saw this it was used as an interim power supply until a diesel generator could be fired up and switched in. A massive flywheel supplied the interim power and of course speed was constantly decelerating. It is not a backyard get em going type thing. Electronics are involved. The customer needed a glitchless mainframe so cost was secondary. Kirk -Original Message- From: Ken Basterfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:38 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Kirk, can you give some more detail please Ken - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators You can modulate (electrically rotate) the field so mechanical relationship is alterable, thus frequency. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:51 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators sounds like a synchronous ac motor. never heard it called a rewritable. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating electricity. Filip Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?)
Yes, it certainly got my attention in a hurry, especially since I know a local fellow who has been at this for years, making steam engines of a more traditional type, building EV's etc, made a design for a steam powered bike (built and sold a bunch too), had a design for a gasoline-electric hybrid VW Beetle years ago...and with all his knowledge, he still likes steam power for it's external combustion, quiet, and torque... Looks like very good company did the work on it. Afraid the story is a year or two old now, should email them and ask for latest I guess On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 01:09 PM, Steve Spence wrote: fascinating. can't wait for more info. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?) What about Carroll Shelby's new project? http://www.ox2engine.com/home.htm -BRAH -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] zero emissions engine (maybe for real?) zero might be a stretch, but still... http://www.iav.de/IAV_Internet/News/media/MTZpdf/zee_e.pdf seems a good candidate for SVO/WVO/PPO. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/ S=1705 083269:HM/A=1481650/R=0/*http:/www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/ 300_real /g22lp?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/ D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1481650/rand=296986633 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (fwd) EVs vs. High-mileage-hybrids with some ethanol mixed in
metalic zinc as fuel... basically, you have a fuel cell that consumes zinc to produce electricity. At the fuel station you buy zinc by the kg, dump it in the tank, empty and refresh the old (zinc laden) acid and refill the acid tank... and go... No batteries, no mess, smaller engines I seem to recall that zinc as electric fuel (once efficiencies are taken into account) was more energy dense than petrol... but that may be wishful thinking on my part... -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] the joy of dumpster diving...
well, today I did the only sensible thing,... I dove into the skip down stairs where tehy are refurbishing the eng building and scavenged 5 or 6 pieces of copper pipe - the longest about 3 m long. with a little annealing and shaping I should soon have a steam/water heated coil for oil heating... :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Could you elaborate more on the 3phase motors? I may have a line on an old 9hp 3phase motor and it is looking like i may be using the newly aquiered chevette for an angine and nothing else (can't find a tranny). My future plans are to be self sufficient for power and this is one way i may (and likely will) go. Thanks Jason Gnatowsky --- Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin, and Darryl, It depends on what type of motor and how you connect it. If it is a commutator or 'universal' motor i.e. it will run on ac or dc, then it will generate if rotated fast enough. However the commutator is effectively a rectifier so you would only get dc out. The old motor car dynamo is a commutator motor, now of course superseded by the alternator. Induction motors, which run on ac only, can be made to generate provided they are run faster than their nominal synchronous speed. E.g. a 4 pole( 2 north, 2 south poles) motor will have a synchronous speed would be 1500 rpm calculated from 50 (cycles per second) *60 ( seconds in a minute) / 2 ( the number of pairs of poles). It will not however, motor at synchronous speed as the rotor needs to slip to generate even enough power to rotate it's own rotor mass without any load. The rated speed is about 1420 rpm ( about 80 rpm slower than synchronous speed ) at full load off 50Hz, but drawing a significant lagging power factor. A 6 pole motor would have a synchronous speed of 1000rpm with rated full load speed at about 930rpm. Scale all the speeds by 60/50 for 60Hz operation The true synchronous motor is called an alternator and they are few and far between if you are on the scrounge, but they are what you get in a pucka genset. Back to the common induction motor, if you run a 4 pole motor at say 1580rpm off 50Hz ( faster than synchronous speed ) it will deliver current provided it is connect to a 50 Hz supply, and there is the difficulty in trying to use it as a free standing generator. It needs to draw a small 50 Hz magnetising current from the mains supply to allow it to deliver power back into the mains supply. It is then called an induction generator. Induction generators have specific applications where they are very useful e.g in hydro electric pumped stations where the purpose is to use the head of water in a high reservoir for supply system load topping ( assist conventional generating sets when on max load --e.g 7a.m to 9a.m.) The water descends turning a turbine which rotates the induction motor ( as a generator to add power to the system ). When the supply system is on minimum load e.g. in the afternoon, the motor is taking power out of the system to pump the water back up to the top reservoir awaiting the next peak demand. All this is economically necessary since it tales such a long time to get generating capacity on stream or to shut it down. It is a sort off flywheel in which energy can be added when spare and extracted when needed. Another application once quite common is to supply leading power factor current to offset the normally lagging power factor load. It is called power factor correction and induction generators do it well. If you use a genset to reduce your needs from the mains supply, or even feed current ( selling power to your supply company ) back into the mains supply if your generating capacity is bigger than your load, then the induction generator is ideal. Think of it as winding the meter back. BUT, the big but, most domestic mains supplies are single phase, and there are few single phase motors around above about 5hp ( approx 4 kilowatt ) so this is about the limit of your home generating capacity if you are on single phase. If you have a 3 phase supply you can generate as much as you like, in reason, since a 40hp 3ph motor should easily be obtained second hand and can supply 30kW as an induction generator when coupled to a typical Diesel ( bioDiesel) car engine. To give the freedom of generating remote from the mains supply, it would be possible to use a small alternator to supply the magnetising current for an induction generator but beware, most alternators would have difficulty in coping with the leading power factor current coming out of the induction generator. I hope this helps. If any one is making progress on this route to selfsufficiency I woulod like to know. sincerely Ken - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Martin, my understanding is that any AC motor will generate if turned mechanically and the electrical circuit is made. However, I believe the frequency (e.g. 60 Hz) is very dependent on maintaining the rpm of the motor (now alternator) at the correct speed. Darryl McMahon To:
Re: [biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer
Maybe if the boob tube generation weren't glued to their sets, there wouldn't be such a frenzy to feed them. If you're one of those watching, then they're playing to you. Now which is more obscene? Don't the viewers have any feelings for the victims? Couldn't they just read the paper or get the synopsis off NPR? What is it that possesses them to lose themselves in everything from tradgedy in the making to farce for hours at a time? Todd Swearingen Fight Prime Time. Read a Book. (or a newspaper) - Original Message - From: Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer What was just as obscene was the crush of reporters rushing and pushing along the corridors of the hospital to get their own 'scoop' Explain why there has to be at least 30 of these vultures, don't they trust each? Have they no feelings for the victims? Couldn't they just send in one representative from their 'pack' to do the interview? Ken - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:45 PM Subject: [biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer The face of Iraqi suffering Robert Fisk toured a Baghdad hospital the day after the bombing. He writes in the Independent (U.K.), There is something sick, obscene about these hospital visits. We bomb. They suffer. Then we turn up and take pictures of their wounded children. Read about five-year old Doha Suleil who has lost all movement in her left leg because of shrapnel from the cruise missile attack. http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=389918 This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer Veteran war reporter Robert Fisk tours the Baghdad hospital to see the wounded after a devastating night of air strikes 23 March 2003 Donald Rumsfeld says the American attack on Baghdad is as targeted an air campaign as has ever existed but he should not try telling that to five-year-old Doha Suheil. She looked at me yesterday morning, drip feed attached to her nose, a deep frown over her small face as she tried vainly to move the left side of her body. The cruise missile that exploded close to her home in the Radwaniyeh suburb of Baghdad blasted shrapnel into her tiny legs (they were bound up with gauze) and, far more seriously, into her spine. Now she has lost all movement in her left leg. Her mother bends over the bed and straightens her right leg which the little girl thrashes around outside the blanket. Somehow, Doha's mother thinks that if her child's two legs lie straight beside each other, her daughter will recover from her paralysis. She was the first of 101 patients brought to the Al-Mustansaniya College Hospital after America's blitz on the city began on Friday night. Seven other members of her family were wounded in the same cruise missile bombardment; the youngest, a one-year-old baby, was being breastfed by her mother at the time. There is something sick, obscene about these hospital visits. We bomb. They suffer. Then we turn up and take pictures of their wounded children. The Iraqi minister of health decides to hold an insufferable press conference outside the wards to emphasise the bestial nature of the American attack. The Americans say that they don't intend to hurt children. And Doha Suheil looks at me and the doctors for reassurance, as if she will awake from this nightmare and move her left leg and feel no more pain. So let's forget, for a moment, the cheap propaganda of the regime and the equally cheap moralising of Messrs Rumsfeld and Bush, and take a trip around the Al-Mustansaniya College Hospital. For the reality of war is ultimately not about military victory and defeat, or the lies about coalition forces which our embedded journalists are now peddling about an invasion involving only the Americans, the British and a handful of Australians. War, even when it has international legitimacy which this war does not is primarily about suffering. Take 50-year-old Amel Hassan, a peasant woman with tattoos on her arms and legs but who now lies on her hospital bed with massive purple bruises on her shoulders - they are now twice their original size - who was on her way to visit her daughter when the first American missile struck Baghdad. I was just getting out of the taxi when there was a big explosion and I fell down and found my blood everywhere, she told me. It was on my arms, my legs, my chest. Amel Hassan still has multiple shrapnel wounds in her chest. Her five-year-old daughter Wahed lies in the next bed, whimpering with pain. She had climbed out of the taxi first and was almost at her aunt's front door when the explosion cut her down. Her feet are still bleeding although the blood
Re: [biofuel] Anybody Using This First Amendment? - Greg Palast
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 03:45:06 +0900, you wrote: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15404 Anybody Using This First Amendment? heck of an article. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] This is the reality of war. We bomb. They suffer
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 01:03 pm, Appal Energy wrote: Maybe if the boob tube generation weren't glued to their sets, there wouldn't be such a frenzy to feed them. If you're one of those watching, then they're playing to you. Now which is more obscene? Don't the viewers have any feelings for the victims? Couldn't they just read the paper or get the synopsis off NPR? What is it that possesses them to lose themselves in everything from tradgedy in the making to farce for hours at a time? Todd Swearingen Fight Prime Time. Read a Book. (or a newspaper) hehehe... Work, Consume, Die! see, that is what it is all about, the global media armchair live conflict game - reality TV come full circle. nothing to do with war or terrorism or oil. it is the media driving the whole shebang... (tongue firmly in cheek - er. looking back on it, it may come across that I am having a scarcastic go at Todd - not my intent, OK... merely exposing another line of thought...) has anyone see a movie from a few years back, the Second Civil War? funny! harsh! Like Micheal Moore on a good day. -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] other fuel sources from waste... plastics.
Gasifiers have to be tuned, unless you're buying a top of the line computerized version at $30,000 or more US. To assist with tuning the unit, the feedstock must be kept relatively consistant, both in moisture content and type of feedstock. In theory rubbish could be shredded and mixed with the primary fuel to recover the energy content - the residential version of waste to energy (municipal waste incinerators, with a higher degree of efficiency than their larger cousins. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: paul van den bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:04 PM Subject: [biofuel] other fuel sources from waste... plastics. Hi all, I used to be a PhD in the polymer blends area. I attended a seminar from Melb Uni Chem eng where they were exploring the posibility of converting polymer waste back to high Q feed stocks - methanol, acetone, alcohol, etc. often by pyrolysis. In our home the majority of the rubbish that goes in the bin (and it is not much at that... seems we have dropped the amount of rubbish by 75% since abandoning the super markets and going to the Vic Market instead) is plastic bags. green scraps go to the chickens or the dog (if she manages to steal them from the bucket) glass, most metal, common plastics (PET, PP, HDPE) bottles go to the recycling. (tetrapacks! they get recycled! how the bloody hell do they manage that!!!) food, animal waste, food contaminated paper, even Al foil goes to the compost. that leaves mostly cling film (ldpe) plastic bags (pe and occasionally pp) and the occasional packaging (PE or PS) and the occasional PVC container... My question is - has anyone found a way to process these in the home? I am inspired by the discussion of wood gassifiers and mixing sawdust with waste oil. surely one could do the same with these materials? - well, being careful to avoid the PVC :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (fwd) EVs vs. High-mileage-hybrids with some ethanol mixed in
Zinc plays a part in both an unconventional fuel cell (such as you say) and also in Zinc-Air batteries which have much longer range than many kinds, but always had problems trying to be conventional rechargeables (too easily oxidized?) and have to be rebuilt I guess in another approach. I know they've been tried on busses. Metallic Somethingorother was the Southern California company working on a zinc based fuel cell (some disputed as to if the definition of fuel cell was appropriate), and ARTX was a zinc-air battery company along with aern (which appears to have sort of gone pink-sheetish bankrupt). Last year I checked and ARTX (formerly EFCX... these are stock symbols) did indeed get their zinc-air battery packs into Radio Shack. They were not sold as conventional batteries, but sort of as one-time-use portable charging for a cell phone. Kind of a keep-talking and have a place to plug in at the same time thing. I'm not sure if this caught on, but let me point out that Medis (ethanol micro fuel cells) was talking about the exact same sort of concept for entering markets with their first product. I think it's arguably foolishness (why not just have a fuel cell powered phone and have done with it?) but at the same time, it sounds like the sort of product I'd need to try to see the value in it. Nice to think you could sort of carry this spare around that almost acts as a de facto socket to plug into for awhile, if I understand it correctly. On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:28:58 +1100, you wrote: metalic zinc as fuel... basically, you have a fuel cell that consumes zinc to produce electricity. At the fuel station you buy zinc by the kg, dump it in the tank, empty and refresh the old (zinc laden) acid and refill the acid tank... and go... No batteries, no mess, smaller engines I seem to recall that zinc as electric fuel (once efficiencies are taken into account) was more energy dense than petrol... but that may be wishful thinking on my part... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (fwd) EVs vs. High-mileage-hybrids with some ethanol mixed in
I knew them when they were Electric Fuel http://www.arotech.com/index.html Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] (fwd) EVs vs. High-mileage-hybrids with some ethanol mixed in Zinc plays a part in both an unconventional fuel cell (such as you say) and also in Zinc-Air batteries which have much longer range than many kinds, but always had problems trying to be conventional rechargeables (too easily oxidized?) and have to be rebuilt I guess in another approach. I know they've been tried on busses. Metallic Somethingorother was the Southern California company working on a zinc based fuel cell (some disputed as to if the definition of fuel cell was appropriate), and ARTX was a zinc-air battery company along with aern (which appears to have sort of gone pink-sheetish bankrupt). Last year I checked and ARTX (formerly EFCX... these are stock symbols) did indeed get their zinc-air battery packs into Radio Shack. They were not sold as conventional batteries, but sort of as one-time-use portable charging for a cell phone. Kind of a keep-talking and have a place to plug in at the same time thing. I'm not sure if this caught on, but let me point out that Medis (ethanol micro fuel cells) was talking about the exact same sort of concept for entering markets with their first product. I think it's arguably foolishness (why not just have a fuel cell powered phone and have done with it?) but at the same time, it sounds like the sort of product I'd need to try to see the value in it. Nice to think you could sort of carry this spare around that almost acts as a de facto socket to plug into for awhile, if I understand it correctly. On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:28:58 +1100, you wrote: metalic zinc as fuel... basically, you have a fuel cell that consumes zinc to produce electricity. At the fuel station you buy zinc by the kg, dump it in the tank, empty and refresh the old (zinc laden) acid and refill the acid tank... and go... No batteries, no mess, smaller engines I seem to recall that zinc as electric fuel (once efficiencies are taken into account) was more energy dense than petrol... but that may be wishful thinking on my part... Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (fwd) EVs vs. High-mileage-hybrids with some ethanol mixed in
On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:01:08 -0500, you wrote: I knew them when they were Electric Fuel http://www.arotech.com/index.html Right: they were EFCX, now changed. In my mind I lump them with MHTX (methanol fuel cells, etc.) and MDTL (micro fuel cells) in their sort of New-York-Israel connection. I haven't strongly researched it though and I'm certainly not advocating investment or anything (I always thought MHTX was really full of it on a lot of points, for example). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Electric generators
Try http://www.catpower.co.jp/english/products/electric/ups.html -Original Message- From: paul van den bergen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators seen the UPS flywheels? www.beakonpower.com I think... On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:36 am, kirk wrote: The first time I saw this it was used as an interim power supply until a diesel generator could be fired up and switched in. A massive flywheel supplied the interim power and of course speed was constantly decelerating. It is not a backyard get em going type thing. Electronics are involved. The customer needed a glitchless mainframe so cost was secondary. Kirk -Original Message- From: Ken Basterfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 12:38 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Kirk, can you give some more detail please Ken - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators You can modulate (electrically rotate) the field so mechanical relationship is alterable, thus frequency. Kirk -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:51 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators sounds like a synchronous ac motor. never heard it called a rewritable. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: filip.ponsaerts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:05 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Electric generators To my understanding this is what's used in large windmills generating electricity. Filip Actually, there WAS an AC generator which generated a constant 60Hz output in spite of varying RPM input. It did this with a rewritable rotor. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] in order to maintain 60 hz at multiple rpm's, you need to generate dc, and use an inverter to get ac. not many types of ac motors can be used for ac generators. asynchronous motors can be IIRC. dc permanent magnet motors are interchangeable. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels
Re: [biofuel] Electric generators
Do you need a standard Chevette transmission? I have a five speed Chevette transmission, from a gas engined Chevette. Where are you located? I am in Regina, Sask. There is an interesting conversion of a 2 hp Induction motor taken off Taiwanese Mill into an alternator on a wind power plant at http://www.otherpower.com/danb_windmill.html EdB - Original Message - From: jgnat1488 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Electric generators Could you elaborate more on the 3phase motors? I may have a line on an old 9hp 3phase motor and it is looking like i may be using the newly aquiered chevette for an angine and nothing else (can't find a tranny). My future plans are to be self sufficient for power and this is one way i may (and likely will) go. Thanks Jason Gnatowsky --- Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin, and Darryl, It depends on what type of motor and how you connect it. If it is a commutator or 'universal' motor i.e. it will run on ac or dc, then it will generate if rotated fast enough. However the commutator is effectively a rectifier so you would only get dc out. The old motor car dynamo is a commutator motor, now of course superseded by the alternator. Induction motors, which run on ac only, can be made to generate provided they are run faster than their nominal synchronous speed. E.g. a 4 pole( 2 north, 2 south poles) motor will have a synchronous speed would be 1500 rpm calculated from 50 (cycles per second) *60 ( seconds in a minute) / 2 ( the number of pairs of poles). It will not however, motor at synchronous speed as the rotor needs to slip to generate even enough power to rotate it's own rotor mass without any load. The rated speed is about 1420 rpm ( about 80 rpm slower than synchronous speed ) at full load off 50Hz, but drawing a significant lagging power factor. A 6 pole motor would have a synchronous speed of 1000rpm with rated full load speed at about 930rpm. Scale all the speeds by 60/50 for 60Hz operation The true synchronous motor is called an alternator and they are few and far between if you are on the scrounge, but they are what you get in a pucka genset. Back to the common induction motor, if you run a 4 pole motor at say 1580rpm off 50Hz ( faster than synchronous speed ) it will deliver current provided it is connect to a 50 Hz supply, and there is the difficulty in trying to use it as a free standing generator. It needs to draw a small 50 Hz magnetising current from the mains supply to allow it to deliver power back into the mains supply. It is then called an induction generator. Induction generators have specific applications where they are very useful e.g in hydro electric pumped stations where the purpose is to use the head of water in a high reservoir for supply system load topping ( assist conventional generating sets when on max load --e.g 7a.m to 9a.m.) The water descends turning a turbine which rotates the induction motor ( as a generator to add power to the system ). When the supply system is on minimum load e.g. in the afternoon, the motor is taking power out of the system to pump the water back up to the top reservoir awaiting the next peak demand. All this is economically necessary since it tales such a long time to get generating capacity on stream or to shut it down. It is a sort off flywheel in which energy can be added when spare and extracted when needed. Another application once quite common is to supply leading power factor current to offset the normally lagging power factor load. It is called power factor correction and induction generators do it well. If you use a genset to reduce your needs from the mains supply, or even feed current ( selling power to your supply company ) back into the mains supply if your generating capacity is bigger than your load, then the induction generator is ideal. Think of it as winding the meter back. BUT, the big but, most domestic mains supplies are single phase, and there are few single phase motors around above about 5hp ( approx 4 kilowatt ) so this is about the limit of your home generating capacity if you are on single phase. If you have a 3 phase supply you can generate as much as you like, in reason, since a 40hp 3ph motor should easily be obtained second hand and can supply 30kW as an induction generator when coupled to a typical Diesel ( bioDiesel) car engine. To give the freedom of generating remote from the mains supply, it would be possible to use a small alternator to supply the magnetising current for an induction generator but beware, most
[biofuel] ethanol batteries
from /. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns3539 -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] the joy of dumpster diving...
There are some interesting fuel production plants using short pieces of copper pipe and other stuff at: http://www.homedistiller.org/types.htm#fraction EdB - Original Message - From: paul van den bergen To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: [biofuel] the joy of dumpster diving... well, today I did the only sensible thing,... I dove into the skip down stairs where tehy are refurbishing the eng building and scavenged 5 or 6 pieces of copper pipe - the longest about 3 m long. with a little annealing and shaping I should soon have a steam/water heated coil for oil heating... :-) -- Dr Paul van den Bergen Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures caia.swin.edu.au [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM:bulwynkl2002 It's a book. Non-volatile storage media. Everyone should have one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Thought provoking?
I do not know the author of this, so I do not even know if it is a true opinion or fiction. But it does sound plausible, I must admit I find it difficult to not find the everyday violence which is more common is non-western countries, somewhat horrifying. I taught a summer class last year for 10-12 year olds. One child, from India, when asked what she liked about living in the US the most, responded , I like the libraries and that the teachers don't beat the students here. Of course the other children wanted more details, they were all shocked to find out what normal school life was like where she came from. Perhaps people from other cultures do not want to be saved from the lifestyle they currently have, I don't know. Certainly the child I met from India thought it was much nicer, and less scary living in the US. Perhaps we should ask the children. Caroline Letter from an Iraqi-American Before anybody decides to go out and join more protests, maybe it would be fair to provide an alternate view. I, as you may have learned, am an Iraqi-American. Actually Assyrian-Iraqi-American. Most of my family was in Baghdad during the first Gulf War--some were in Kuwait. My aunt Margaret tells me that during that war, they would wait until night and go sit on the rooftops and cheer the bombing. The American attacks were so concise, she said that they would bet on which government or utilities building would be hit, and were more often than not, correct. Civilian targets were always accidental. Think about it: what military objective would be served by hitting a civilian hospital, when the opposing army is surrendering en masse(not fighting and getting injured)? For the last six months on al-Jazeera television, Iraqi defectors have been appearing on talk shows begging--literally, begging--the other Arab nations to support the US in this war, to finally free the Iraqi people. Without fail, their counterparts from other nations stated that they preferred Hussein to the USA. Here are some figures. Since taking power officially in 1978 (although he was the functional leader since 1971), Hussein has executed somewhere in the range of 3 million political prisoners. He launched chemical weapons against Assyrians and Kurds in the North. He drained the marshes in the south, which the Shi'ites need to survive, causing a famine-on-purpose in the style of what Stalin did to Ukraine in the 30s. Every day in Iraq, 2,500 children die from malnutrition and lack of medicine because Hussein has been kicking out UN (not US) inspectors for 11 years. Two thousand five hundred children die every day. So do not dare, for one instant, to protest this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. To do so is to spit in the face of the millions of people who yearn for freedom from his regime. Hussein is not Castro. Uday Hussein, his son, is the head of athletics in Iraq. He owns a football club. For years, whenever they wouldn't perform to expectations, he would bring them to his personal prison and torture them ruthlessly. He maintained a harem of hundreds of women whom he would rape, defile, and murder. The few hundred Iraqi civilians who may die in the bombing raids are a pittance compared to the millions Hussein has killed as well as the appalling number of children who die every day due to his arms program stubborn-ness. How many more can die so a bunch of addle-brained do-gooders can get on TV waving placards? It is hypocritical and worse irrational to oppose this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. They don't know the desires of the Iraqi people, or the apalling suffering of the Iraqi people. The only reason to protest the war would be because you are opposed to any and all war, opposed to sending US troops anywhere, ever. In which case kudos to you, I suppose, for returning to the turn-of-the-century style isolationism that indirectly lead to the horrific casualties of World War I and II. The world depends on superpowers to lend coercive power to international regimes. The best are those signs that say, No Iraqi Blood for Oil. How about, No More Iraqi Blood for French Interests, since the French opposed this war solely because they have hundreds of billions of dollars tied up with the Iraqi regime, money they will lose if Hussein is ousted because international regimes stipulate that a nation is not responsible for the debts of a deposed, illegitimate regime. The same goes for the Russians and Germans. The Russians have invested billions in Iraq's nuclear program. And to answer those who argue that the US is only engendering more hate among out European allies: Whose fault is that? Ours? Bush is an inept, almost moronic leader who angered many when he imposed a steel tariff, pulled out of the Kyoto protocol, and so forth. But in this case, the US is trying to remove an unpopular, ruthless, Stalin-esque dictator and free a nation of people who live every day in terror (see Samir al-Khalil's book Republic of Fear).
Re: [biofuel] Thought provoking?
Plausible or not, peace is not won by dropping bombs without first exhausting all other remidies. Mr. Bush and his administration have fabricated pretext after pretext in the attempt to gain public and political support. This is almost certainly high amongst the reasons for protest around the globe. Most people generally don't appreciate being lied to and cajoled into subjection - not Iraqis - not Americans - not anybody. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Grahams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 11:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] Thought provoking? I do not know the author of this, so I do not even know if it is a true opinion or fiction. But it does sound plausible, I must admit I find it difficult to not find the everyday violence which is more common is non-western countries, somewhat horrifying. I taught a summer class last year for 10-12 year olds. One child, from India, when asked what she liked about living in the US the most, responded , I like the libraries and that the teachers don't beat the students here. Of course the other children wanted more details, they were all shocked to find out what normal school life was like where she came from. Perhaps people from other cultures do not want to be saved from the lifestyle they currently have, I don't know. Certainly the child I met from India thought it was much nicer, and less scary living in the US. Perhaps we should ask the children. Caroline Letter from an Iraqi-American Before anybody decides to go out and join more protests, maybe it would be fair to provide an alternate view. I, as you may have learned, am an Iraqi-American. Actually Assyrian-Iraqi-American. Most of my family was in Baghdad during the first Gulf War--some were in Kuwait. My aunt Margaret tells me that during that war, they would wait until night and go sit on the rooftops and cheer the bombing. The American attacks were so concise, she said that they would bet on which government or utilities building would be hit, and were more often than not, correct. Civilian targets were always accidental. Think about it: what military objective would be served by hitting a civilian hospital, when the opposing army is surrendering en masse(not fighting and getting injured)? For the last six months on al-Jazeera television, Iraqi defectors have been appearing on talk shows begging--literally, begging--the other Arab nations to support the US in this war, to finally free the Iraqi people. Without fail, their counterparts from other nations stated that they preferred Hussein to the USA. Here are some figures. Since taking power officially in 1978 (although he was the functional leader since 1971), Hussein has executed somewhere in the range of 3 million political prisoners. He launched chemical weapons against Assyrians and Kurds in the North. He drained the marshes in the south, which the Shi'ites need to survive, causing a famine-on-purpose in the style of what Stalin did to Ukraine in the 30s. Every day in Iraq, 2,500 children die from malnutrition and lack of medicine because Hussein has been kicking out UN (not US) inspectors for 11 years. Two thousand five hundred children die every day. So do not dare, for one instant, to protest this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. To do so is to spit in the face of the millions of people who yearn for freedom from his regime. Hussein is not Castro. Uday Hussein, his son, is the head of athletics in Iraq. He owns a football club. For years, whenever they wouldn't perform to expectations, he would bring them to his personal prison and torture them ruthlessly. He maintained a harem of hundreds of women whom he would rape, defile, and murder. The few hundred Iraqi civilians who may die in the bombing raids are a pittance compared to the millions Hussein has killed as well as the appalling number of children who die every day due to his arms program stubborn-ness. How many more can die so a bunch of addle-brained do-gooders can get on TV waving placards? It is hypocritical and worse irrational to oppose this war on behalf of the Iraqi people. They don't know the desires of the Iraqi people, or the apalling suffering of the Iraqi people. The only reason to protest the war would be because you are opposed to any and all war, opposed to sending US troops anywhere, ever. In which case kudos to you, I suppose, for returning to the turn-of-the-century style isolationism that indirectly lead to the horrific casualties of World War I and II. The world depends on superpowers to lend coercive power to international regimes. The best are those signs that say, No Iraqi Blood for Oil. How about, No More Iraqi Blood for French Interests, since the French opposed this war solely because they have hundreds of billions of dollars tied up with the Iraqi regime, money they will lose if Hussein is ousted because
[biofuel] australia ethanol news
Wednesday March 26, 03:14 PM Vic set for mandatory ethanol labelling The Victorian government announced the state would be the first in Australia to introduce mandatory labelling of ethanol content in fuel. Victorian Consumer Affairs Minister John Lenders said that from May 1, petrol stations would be required to disclose fuel's ethanol content at the pump. Labels will state whether ethanol content is up to a maximum of 10 per cent, or more than 10 per cent. Ethanol has been promoted as an octane enhancer and clean additive to fuel, but in concentrations of more than 10 per cent is reported to damage vehicles' engines and fuel systems. Under the new laws, petrol stations caught selling fuel without ethanol content labels will face fines of up to $60,000, or $25,000 fines for individuals. Mr Lenders said Consumer Affairs Victoria would police the system with random tests across the state. He said the state government had decided to act after the federal government failed to regulate ethanol content. The Howard government is ignoring mounting community concern and calls by Victoria and other states to effectively control the level of ethanol in fuel, Mr Lenders said. He said the federal government should implement a 10 per cent cap on ethanol in fuel. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hadn't heard that, sounds interesting. A lot of changes coming down the pike it seems. also have heard of a diesel like direct injection type gas engine as well...lotta changes, and we're all going to be part of it. Still looking for info on maybe using an automotive starter motor as drive power for fuel/oil pumping. What size would be good and would a resistor need to be added to tone the starter motor down ? :-) Respectfully yours, Jennifer You're asking me a question I can't answer! I majored in biology / English / Bible / History and right now I manage a learning center that helps teach people how to read. Electronics has never been my forte! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
