[biofuels-biz] List archives
Hey all Say some nice words to Martin Klingensmith for the new design of the archives website: Information Archive at NNYTech http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ And some more nice words for doing the archives in the first place. Try doing a search at the Yahoo archives and compare, just to see how really lucky we are to have this great resource. Fast, powerful searches, one-time searching - with Yahoo, you might have to keep going for about 25 pages to find what you want. That's Yahoo pages - slow! The Infoarchive does it all at once. And no ads. Thanks much, Martin. Regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (unknown)
Hi I am from india and interested in starting my own biofuel unit based on jatropha.Can anybody provide the information about the legal aspects and production process alongwith persons/companies to be contacted. Expecting any positive reply Yahoo! India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] heat exchangers and copper etc was The real URL
Counterflow (water-cooled) heat exchanger like the one stuck to the side of Dale Scroggins processor at journeytoforever, or a copper coil attached using flare fittings (look up what that means theyr'e easy to make) or a car radiator with some valving to be able to adjust the rate at which the material flows out of the tank into the heat exchanger. remember, copper is bad for use in a tank for biodiesel production, but it's fine for distillation of methanol. I figured out how it's done by reading some moonshine books about stills. There is probably a good website on making fuel or drinking ethanol that'll cover the construction in detail, just think 'water heater' while you read a description of a still. The counterflow shell-in-tube heat exchanger gizmo can be built for $20-$50 depending on size. I'm trying out a smallish one (6 feet?). I had most of the parts for about a year and couldn't figure out what I was missing to make it work, thought it was more complicated than it was. Then Home Power magazine published a great how-to article on building these things- I had one wrong piece of plumbing that I didn't know enough about and the how-to article made me smack my head and go WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT. Their application was for a solar hot water application. Once again, don t use them this way for biodiesel production, just for methanol recovery. on a side note, I've been looking into non-copper heat exchangers and tonight I just got given a BEAUTIFUL SeCesPol stainless steel heat exchanger- and they're not all that expensive, like under $200 possibly if I had the numbers correct? It's something I'm using for our future and much-talked-about solar heating system. CeSespol is 888-738 1350 . The one I got is a B-line. It looks like a big silver thermos. They also make those compact little brazed stacked-plate heat exchangers that Elsbett puts into their vehicles. I believe THOSE aren't all that expensive either. anyway do a search on the internet that company surely must have their info on there. They're made in Poland and they're a shell-in-tube with the tubes riffled so as to increase turbulence and heat transfer. I think I'm getting obsessed with the solar hot water thing, been collecting all kinds of stuff with the target goal of putting it on the roof of the Team Canola coop before our January workshop for farmers. After some other fun projects I just worked on (unrelated to biodiesel but to electricity instead!!!) I realized tonight that I've become an engineering groupie. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Maud Essen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you, Mark! This is so very helpful...exactly what I needed! One question, though: what do you attach to condense the methanol and what is the procedure for doing that safely? This (methanol being a fossil fuel) is part of biodiesel production that has really concerned me. That and it's explosive nature, of course. Thanks again! Maud You have to put the address below into your browser window as a cut and paste, just clicking on it might not work and brings up another message instead. The Veggie Avenger board's been deadish for a while now, (we have another forum in northern california that's heavily used) but he just added a file upload and photo upload sectin that's very useful. http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?p= 8 33#833 mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: pumps, etc.
If you use another type of pump other than a centrifugal like the clear water pump, you definitely need to put in a sight tube because the level in the pump line is sometimes not accurate with other pumps. I had bad luck with cheap and small mag-drive stuff, haven't checked the link you posted though. I ve never seen one of the blue Clear Water pumps leak, though the black plastic housing over the wiring does fall apart if you get biodieel on it for a year and expose it to the elements and then drag it around all over the place for classes like I did. Get the SUrplus Center catalog as well if you're looking at suppliers of gear. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Maud Essen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Todd, is this magnetic drive pump big enough for Mark's water heater design? http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xiItemId =1611762438ccitem= Thanks. Maud Todd replied to Sue... The pump you referenced is a clear water pump and is known to leak quite easily. It would probably work. But put a drip pan underneath it. A magnetic drive pump would be a more leakproof option. snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Re: Viscosity - was Re: Fuel Quality Test for Small Producers
To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:40:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Viscosity - was Re: [biofuels-biz] Fuel Quality Test for Small Producers Tom, Apologies. I wasn't as clear as needed relative to chilling samples. I shouldn't have used the term cloud point to indicate what happens when an incomplete reaction of WVO is chilled. And some further clarity should have been used between yellow grease and WVO. As you point out they aren't precisely interchangeble. We work primarily with yellow grease. The animal fat content can vary from day to day depending upon the source. But the fact that there is some part animal fat is consistent. When biodiesel is gradually cooled it clouds almost uniformly, in both washed and pre-washed state, whether the feedstock is SVO, WVO, yellow grease, or even 100% deer tallow. That is, of course, if the reaction was complete. However, with an incomplete reaction, gradual cooling will yield a rather quick appearance of solids from the bottom up. The solids that first appear are the unconverted animal fats, with the partially hydrogenated oils in lock step. This non-homogenous form of solidification is what I was referring to as yet another quick method of determining an incomplete reaction, at least for feedstocks with animal fat content. If the reaction appears to have completed, a quick wash can be used as further verification. That wash is a great deal easier to use as a determinant if the process being conducted is acid/base. Many straight base reactions have to overcome such a high percentage of FFAs and produce so much soap that a quick and vigorous sample washing will yield emulsification. A completed acid/base can be washed with a12 horsepower Evinrude in a 55-gallon drum without emulsifying. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Viscosity - was Re: [biofuels-biz] Fuel Quality Test for Small Producers Todd, The biodiesel chilling test presumes that your feedstock remains the same or is similar from batch to batch. The cloud point of ASTM certified biodiesel varies greatly due to the feedstock. For instance, World Energy biodiesel from the Cincinnati plant, which contains much rendered animal fats, has a 10 degree higher cloud point or freeze point compared to Yellow Biodiesel which is based on only plant based oils (used to be). Then again, a batch of canola will yield a much lower cloud point for biodiesel than that made from partially hydrogenated soy. If we are basing our feedstock on yellow grease from dozens of changing sources, there is no way I can see as to how to predict the cloud point for a particular biodiesel. This brings up another point, BTW. In my business plan it is necessary to have a grease warehouse where large tanks allow equalization and stabilization of the feedstock. My current plan has 5 tanks, each 15' tall and containing 12,000 gallons each. This is the maximum allowed under NFPA Code 30 for indoor storage with minimal fire suppression requirements. Now, under this plan, one can get to know a typical oil's characteristics, something I was never able to do reliably, and predict its cold performance. This is another example of do as I say, not as I do. Tom Leue In a message dated 11/21/03 1:53:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey Tom, Are you sure it was the viscometer that prodded you towards a nearly perfect sample or was it your methods? I would tend to believe that it was a number of indicators that you relied on to give you reason to be somewhat confident in submitting a sample for testing, that and great familiarity with what you are doing and what measure lends what result. There is one test that no one has mentioned that can lend to determining if a reaction has completed or not. (No. It's not the frog in a blender wash test.) It's the simple refrigeration of a sample. If the sample begins to cloud at a temp higher than what the ester should cloud at you can bank on there being a problem. We've seen different samples treated exactly in the same manner do exactly that when set on a cold floor overnite (~45*F). They were all from the same feedstock. But some were a higher ratio of oil/fat than others. Two of the eight showed no clouding and washed like a dream. Three had but 1/4 or less clouding at the bottom. They washed rather half-baked, forming more emulsion than they would have if complete. The remaining three showed several inches of cloudiness, which was to be expected, as the volume of the glycerin cocktail was a bit deficient. There wasn't even the first thought of washing these. Just another simple test, presuming the lady of the house doesn't mind the bottom shelf of her refrigerator being used for cloud point
[biofuel] DIY processors: Mark's $150 Fumeless Processor
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html The $150 Fumeless Processor More pictures coming, Mark says. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Finished Fuel Shelf Life / Storage
Greetings, Does finished fuel have a limit to shelf life? What about gelling in storage at cold temps? I've heard that some petro diesel users who store on site (farmers) put 2% gasoline in it. (1 gallon per 50). Heresy, I know, but would it work? I'm looking at having 600 gallons or so on hand @ 1 October, and not making more until I get low, probably in April. Winter low temps here typically in the 20's F, occasionally 0 F. Keeping stored fuel in a freeze free space is an option, but not free. Randal Son Resist Convenience, Go For Efficiency --- This message powered by BMI WebMail. -- http://webmail.bmi.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Autocatalysts to lift platinum demand
Has anyone seen or know of any health issues for using members of the Platinum group for denial usage? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 20:21 Subject: [biofuel] Autocatalysts to lift platinum demand http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/22911/story.htm Autocatalysts to lift Japan 2003 platinum demand JAPAN: November 21, 2003 SNIP For sister metal palladium, the report said autocatalyst demand was likely to rise, as would dental alloys offtake, another key use of palladium in Japan. Japan's palladium demand for autocatalysts was forecast to rise four percent in 2003 to 540,000 ounces. Palladium demand in Japan's dental sector would account for 530,000 ounces, versus 505,000 ounces in 2002. A decline in the palladium price has made dental treatment with kinpala palladium-based alloys more affordable. Japan's state health insurance scheme helps subsidise part of the cost of dental treatment including that using the palladium-based dental alloys. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] List archives
Hey all Say some nice words to Martin Klingensmith for the new design of the archives website: Information Archive at NNYTech http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ And some more nice words for doing the archives in the first place. Try doing a search at the Yahoo archives and compare, just to see how really lucky we are to have this great resource. Fast, powerful searches, one-time searching - with Yahoo, you might have to keep going for about 25 pages to find what you want. That's Yahoo pages - slow! The Infoarchive does it all at once. And no ads. Thanks much, Martin. Regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Autocatalysts to lift platinum demand
Has anyone seen or know of any health issues for using members of the Platinum group for denial usage? Greg H. Not offhand Greg, but there's probably something here, to start with, 232 hits: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/?keywords=platinumtime=alluser time=2002-12-31 Best Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 20:21 Subject: [biofuel] Autocatalysts to lift platinum demand http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/22911/story.htm Autocatalysts to lift Japan 2003 platinum demand JAPAN: November 21, 2003 snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc.
Maud, It should work. For what duration I couldn't say. A little low on the horsepower end for pumping warmed veg oil, even though it is rated up to 1.1 specific gravity. It appears to be a 2MD series pump, open enclosure (oxymoron?). The open motor aspect is what would disturb me about its application in making biodiesel. You can find all the specs for Little Giant pumps at www.littlegiant.com, sub-heading of magnetic drive pumps. Pumps in the mildly corrosive category have alumina shafts, which may be problematic relative to pump failure in the long term with. On the bright side, Little Giant has constructed their MD pumps to be completely serviceable. Parts availability is good. You can start to pick up a little horsepower in the 3MD series. The TE-3-MD-HC meets the concern of corrosion and motor enclosure. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Maud Essen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc. Todd, is this magnetic drive pump big enough for Mark's water heater design? http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xiItemId=1611762438ccitem= Thanks. Maud Todd replied to Sue... The pump you referenced is a clear water pump and is known to leak quite easily. It would probably work. But put a drip pan underneath it. A magnetic drive pump would be a more leakproof option. snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1306
Right on. I've just about finished Ben. Netanyahou's work, A Durable Peace, and it was quite an eye opener for me. - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 1306 I can mostly agree with this, MM, but I have absolutely NO sympathy for your ideas on where we are getting our fuel and at what price. The huge price is to the people of the Middle East, and the world, and there's worse to come, from the same culprits - led, first and foremost, by the US and its oil corporations, which have been twisting that whole region out of shape for generations in order to screw cheap oil out of it. Self-inflicted injury, that's all, and VERY minor by comparison - not (yet) severe enough to force the beneficiaries (wilfully blind American consumer energy wastrels) to look the facts in the face at last. crist, someone has been listening to saddam too much. If the US wanted to get Iraqi oil, then why wouldnt they just have overtaken all those wells the last time the iraqi put their hands up after 100 hours of ground fighting? They aren't out to steal oil, or they also would have just overtaken Saudi when they had half a million troops there. Meanwhile Israel hies itself off to the good old US in search of yet another $12 billion in aid, mostly weaponry, much of it no doubt to be used in terrorist acts against unarmed civilians, business as usual. That just doesn't figure in this cosy little where we get our oil from anti-OPEC equation, now does it? Israelis themselves are increasingly opposed to this, vehemently so, but you take no notice - they're wrong, that's that. Or, easier, simply fail to notice it. more dikness. Terrorism is acts against civilians for the political cause. It isnt just defined as violence that 'happens' to be against what you personally would like to see. How about i come into your yard and start beating your dog, and when you try to stop me, i sue you for violence against me.. terrorist! If you will notice, there are no Isrealis blowing up cafeterias.. i wonder why not? lots of civilians there! Perhaps your compatriates will get more sympathy when instead of bombing discos, cafes etc, they tried bombing military targets etc. People seem to care less if you attack military targets instead of people picking their nose and reading a book. You may not like the 'aid'.. but given that they are the only democracy in the region, and people around them outnumber them 70-1..and continually pose threats.. they probably need some help. I wonder what the palestinians do with all the aid the US gives them. .. the most of any country.. including their rich buddies over there. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
heating elements was Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc.
Dan Maker wrote: Wynn said: Dan, Can you explain WHY it would make an electrician shudder? I see nothing wrong with it! As I'm not an electrician, I am only relating what my co-worker, who is an electrician, said when I mentioned this to him. His biggest concern was that it was quite inefficent. For each watt used at 120v in a 240v heating element, a higher percentage of it is wasted than if you were to use the 240v element at 240v, or, and this is my own guess, to use a 120v element instead. But he didn't think using the 240v element at 120v was a very good idea. Ask someone else for a second opinion if you don't like what I'm relating to you. It won't hurt my feelings. After all, this is basicly my opinion and it's worth what you've paid for it. Absolutly nothing :) As others on the list have indicated, it does work. Dan I'm not sure where this is coming from. As long as your wiring is properly sized to the heating element, a heating element cannot be much less than 100% efficient. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] News article in NY Times about diesel cars
Too bad they didnÕt mention that a diesel engineÕs saving grace is that it needs to run on biofuel, not diesel fuel. We need to educate and encourage folks to buy a diesel engine and run it on biofuel. Someone needs to make it available at the pump everywhere to make it a viable alternative for those folks who are not into home brewing. Wendy Adams Harrisburg, PA ___ New York Times Energy Bill Would Welcome Back Diesels By DANNY HAKIM Published: November 22, 2003 DETROIT, Nov. 21 - Twenty-five years after diesel cars largely disappeared from American highways in a black cloud of tailpipe exhaust, the energy bill whose fate is hanging in the Senate invites a much cleaner incarnation back. These so-called advanced diesels would be eligible for tax credits equal to those in the bill for alternative-fuel vehicles and gas-electric hybrids. Advertisement Environmental groups say that the new generation of diesels will still be too dirty to merit tax breaks but they view credits for cleaner technologies like hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells as one of the few things to like about the bill. Over all, they say, the energy bill will increase the nation's automotive oil consumption. Automakers see the provision, as well as the energy bill at large, as a victory. Several automakers - particularly those based in Europe, where millions of diesels are sold each year - view diesels as the most viable way to cut Americans' swelling oil consumption. We definitely support it and are very pleased, from the language we've seen, said Kathleen Graham, a spokeswoman for DaimlerChrysler. We think we should encourage all advanced technologies with tax credits and not just one because right now there's not a clear winner, she added. But Dan Becker, an energy expert at the Sierra Club, said many of the vehicles that would receive diesel credits would not even meet the minimum standards in California, which sets more stringent air quality standards than the federal government. We don't need diesels, he said. For them to share a tax credit meant to benefit clean cars like hybrids is appalling. The Joint Committee on Taxation forecasts that tax credits for advanced technology and alternative-fuel vehicles will cost more than $2.2 billion from 2004 to 2013. The committee did not break down the cost of credits for diesels versus hybrids and other technologies. After the oil shocks of the 1970's, diesels had a period of modest popularity in the United States. But as gas prices receded, consumers grew tired of the smoke and smells associated with the engines, as well as quality problems with some diesel offerings from General Motors. In recent years, automakers have been exploring technologies to clean up diesels, to try to meet tightening emissions and fuel economy regulations in Europe and with an eye to reintroducing diesel engine cars in the United States. China, the world's fastest-growing market for automobile sales, is also poised to impose fuel economy standards more stringent than those in the United States. Even some regulators said they thought diesels might be useful in meeting the goals of using less oil while also reducing pollution. I think it's part of the solution,'' Alan Lloyd, chairman of the California Air Resources Board, said in a recent interview. The more I see these things, I don't know that there's any magic bullet. Environmentalists are not convinced that diesel can ever be as clean as gasoline. Current diesel technology presents trade-offs. Diesels still emit considerably more smog-forming pollutants like nitrogen oxides, volatile organic chemicals and soot than comparable gasoline cars do. But diesels also improve fuel economy by 30 to 40 percent and reduce oil consumption by about 15 percent, reducing emissions that many scientists link to global warming. For instance, the 2003 Volkswagen Jetta with a four-cylinder gasoline engine and an automatic transmission emits 7.9 to 11.8 pounds of smog-forming pollutants every 15,000 miles, according to data from the Environmental Protection Agency. But a comparable car with a diesel engine emits at least 43.7 pounds of pollutants. On the other hand, the gasoline Jetta gets average combined city and highway mileage of 26 miles a gallon and emits 7.4 tons of greenhouse gases a year, compared with 5.5 tons and 38 m.p.g. for the diesel. The types of advanced diesel vehicles that would be eligible for credits under the energy bill would have new filtration technologies that greatly narrow the pollutant gap with gasoline cars. Obviously, it could help kick-start the return of diesels to the U.S., said Allen Schaeffer, executive director of the Diesel Technology Forum, referring to the energy bill. His group is financed by automakers, diesel engine makers and oil companies. Gas cars don't offer the 20 to 40 percent fuel economy gains that you get with
Re: heating elements was Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc.
Martin Klingensmith said: Dan Maker said: As I'm not an electrician, I am only relating what my co-worker, who is an electrician, said when I mentioned this to him. I'm not sure where this is coming from. As long as your wiring is properly sized to the heating element, a heating element cannot be much less than 100% efficient. I'll ask again on Monday. I may have missunderstood what he was saying. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: heating elements was Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc.
Actually it kind of makes sense, If you run 120 volts through a light bulb made for a 130 volts, they are dimmer and cooler than a 120 volt light bulb of the same wattage, despite the fact that you are using the same amount of electricity. It would make sense then if you are running a 120 volts, through a 240 volt heating element, then it is going to take more electricity to produce the same amount of heat.Heating elements are designed to give off X amount of heat with Y volts, if you have to much voltage, you run the risk of melting the element, with to little, it does not heat as much, I would be willing to bet, the amount of heat is less on a per volt or watt basis than if it was used at it's proper voltage. This would be easy to show if it is true or not, with two pieces of nichrome wire of major different thickness, all you would have to do is measure how long it would take to raise the temp of a given amount of water a given number of degrees, for given voltages. If the thicker wire takes longer with the lower voltage, then it would show an inefficiency. I'm thinking that it would take longer to heat the water, and that entire time the water would be loosing heat to the outside, in a way it would mean applying more heat to raise the temp the same amount. This is the basics of melting metal, you apply the heat faster than it can be gotten rid of, so it melts. In theory, with a perfect insulator, you could melt metal with the heat of a candle ( an extremely large candle, I'll grant you ), because the metal would not be able to get rid of the heat. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 Subject: heating elements was Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc. Dan Maker wrote: Wynn said: Dan, Can you explain WHY it would make an electrician shudder? I see nothing wrong with it! As I'm not an electrician, I am only relating what my co-worker, who is an electrician, said when I mentioned this to him. His biggest concern was that it was quite inefficent. For each watt used at 120v in a 240v heating element, a higher percentage of it is wasted than if you were to use the 240v element at 240v, or, and this is my own guess, to use a 120v element instead. But he didn't think using the 240v element at 120v was a very good idea. Ask someone else for a second opinion if you don't like what I'm relating to you. It won't hurt my feelings. After all, this is basicly my opinion and it's worth what you've paid for it. Absolutly nothing :) As others on the list have indicated, it does work. Dan I'm not sure where this is coming from. As long as your wiring is properly sized to the heating element, a heating element cannot be much less than 100% efficient. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: heating elements was Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc.
Heating elements give off (power * time) joules of energy. power = potential * current so energy = potential * current * time therefore: joules = volts * amps * seconds The energy has to go somewhere, and it only comes out as heat. It is no less efficient at 120v than it is at 240v. Any inefficiency occcurs in the wires leading to the element, where any heat produced does get wasted. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Greg and April wrote: Actually it kind of makes sense, If you run 120 volts through a light bulb made for a 130 volts, they are dimmer and cooler than a 120 volt light bulb of the same wattage, despite the fact that you are using the same amount of electricity. It would make sense then if you are running a 120 volts, through a 240 volt heating element, then it is going to take more electricity to produce the same amount of heat.Heating elements are designed to give off X amount of heat with Y volts, if you have to much voltage, you run the risk of melting the element, with to little, it does not heat as much, I would be willing to bet, the amount of heat is less on a per volt or watt basis than if it was used at it's proper voltage. This would be easy to show if it is true or not, with two pieces of nichrome wire of major different thickness, all you would have to do is measure how long it would take to raise the temp of a given amount of water a given number of degrees, for given voltages. If the thicker wire takes longer with the lower voltage, then it would show an inefficiency. I'm thinking that it would take longer to heat the water, and that entire time the water would be loosing heat to the outside, in a way it would mean applying more heat to raise the temp the same amount. This is the basics of melting metal, you apply the heat faster than it can be gotten rid of, so it melts. In theory, with a perfect insulator, you could melt metal with the heat of a candle ( an extremely large candle, I'll grant you ), because the metal would not be able to get rid of the heat. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:34 Subject: heating elements was Re: [biofuel] pumps, etc. Dan Maker wrote: Wynn said: Dan, Can you explain WHY it would make an electrician shudder? I see nothing wrong with it! As I'm not an electrician, I am only relating what my co-worker, who is an electrician, said when I mentioned this to him. His biggest concern was that it was quite inefficent. For each watt used at 120v in a 240v heating element, a higher percentage of it is wasted than if you were to use the 240v element at 240v, or, and this is my own guess, to use a 120v element instead. But he didn't think using the 240v element at 120v was a very good idea. Ask someone else for a second opinion if you don't like what I'm relating to you. It won't hurt my feelings. After all, this is basicly my opinion and it's worth what you've paid for it. Absolutly nothing :) As others on the list have indicated, it does work. Dan I'm not sure where this is coming from. As long as your wiring is properly sized to the heating element, a heating element cannot be much less than 100% efficient. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Dessicants for Ethanol
Yo, tell me to shuddup if I'm beating a dead horse. I think molecular sieve is overkill for drying ethanol. It can easily achieve 99.9%, and you only need maybe 98% to make biodiesel. (My earlier results at 95% were anomalous, i.e., probly WRONG :-)) Corn grits are the other extreme -- I'm thinkin maybe silica gel or activated alumina. Something that doesn't need 300C and 10 torr to regenerate. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Dessicants for Ethanol
Yo, tell me to shuddup if I'm beating a dead horse. I think molecular sieve is overkill for drying ethanol. It can easily achieve 99.9%, and you only need maybe 98% to make biodiesel. (My earlier results at 95% were anomalous, i.e., probly WRONG :-)) Yo Ken, that's no dead horse, flog away. 98% is much better than 99.9%... though not as nice as 95%, 'tis true. Corn grits are the other extreme -- I'm thinkin maybe silica gel or activated alumina. Something that doesn't need 300C and 10 torr to regenerate. -K Or something really cheap? Zeolite's been made from rice husks, and from kitchen wastes, but I don't know how. Please keep us updated on your work, both with drying ethanol and with ethyl esters via less-than-anhydrous ethanol. By the way, did you ever see this? http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/biofuel/11024/1/ Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bubble Wash Assembly
Hello Chris Hi all: Could you give your input on this? How about using a basketball pin and a portable air compressor (the kind used to inflate tires) to deliver a jet of air into a bd wash tank? Sounds like severe overkill. But I don't know what a basketball pin is. I found that using aquarium type bubble stones tend to clog up after a few wash. Clog up with what? Best Keith Do you think this idea could work? Thanks, Chris Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Off-the-Shelf Processors
Hey Maud, Getting into the micro-costing of a small, affordable processing system (emphasis on system, not simply the processor) is on the event horizon. But in the meantime, we're bolting up a cradel-to-grave 400 gallon system as time and spare change permit. Biggest drawback, aside from free time, is trying to fit all the elements in one small space the size of a two car garage - wash and waste systems included. It's coming along slowly, but getting there. The system largely follows the flow chart that Keith published at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor6.html It wouldn't take much to put together a parts list for a smaller system. We've got the familiarity to do it. Just that there is only so much time in a given day and this moderately sized system needs to get finished before taking time out for other tasks. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Maud Essen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Off-the-Shelf Processors Thank you, Todd. You've actually read my mind. After I figure out how to do this for myself I do intend to start a WVO coop and teach others in my area. I have a secure garage/parking pad that offer an ideal location for such an operation. I would be happy to work with you on spec'ing and pricing out your parts list. If you want to put the Fuelmeister and other rip-offs outta bidness, then the easiest way to do it is to provide a basic but good design plus a parts list with sources and prices. If you are interested in that project, please let me know and I will help! Maud St. Louis, MO Maud, Fear not McDuff. The world of plumbing, teflon tape, copper sweat and bulkhead fittings is as simple as screwing in a compact fluorescent. (How many biodieselers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?) As time permits more and more stuff that we're doing will be available via 'da net. About the only degree of engineering anyone needs to learn is enough to keep something from leaking. The chemistry is rather simple. Besides, you need to understand some of the basics of the chemistry at least a little bit in order to self-diagnose any anomalies that might get stirred up. Blowing something up is near impossible. Besides, doing that would probably merit you a knotch in your tombstone that says terrorist, rather than practicing environmentalist. Ruminating over your 250 gallons of production per year gives reason to think that you should be co-op-ing with someone or others, especially if you want to produce biodiesel as environmentally benign as possible. A small jam and jelly tight processing system in constant use can output 5,000 - 20,000 gallons, depending upon how it's layed out and how well it is tweaked for output. It would be a lot easier to split costs with several people and everyone be a little more fuel rich than one person footing the bill and the system getting dusty in a garage. Anyway, the drawing that I forwarded to Keith is nothing more than a flow chart and a half-page of correlating notes. For some it's difficult to envision the valves, pumps, motors and process just by looking at a flow diagrameven me sometimes. But it should give an idea to start with. And like I said, more stuff is in the offing. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Maud Essen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Off-the-Shelf Processors I'd like to second Quinn's request, Todd. Please share your diagrams with the rest of us. When I came to the list to learn what it takes to process and utilize my own biofuel I was completely naive. Quinn has expressed eloquently how overwhelming it is, even to one who is generally handy, to find that it will be necessary to teach oneself mechanical engineering, chemical engineering, and automotive repair/modification in order to achieve this goal. In all my years of rehabbing houses, it was relatively easy to avoid blowing up the building or burning down the garage, much less rendering my brain to mush. Whenever I've had to use a chainsaw (of which I am particularly afraid) I know that the worst thing I can do is hurt or kill myself, not take out part of a neighborhood. For some, scavenging what it takes to build a personally customized processor and learning chemical engineering in order to use it is a fun new hobby. For me, setting up a generic but safe, reliable processor and learning a safe, reliable process is simply a means to an end...about 250 gallons of biodiesel per year. It's not wimpy to want a generic solution. Isn't the world still a better place when there is one more person processing biodiesel...even if they're using a generic processor, some of whose parts were bought instead of scavenged? Maud St. Louis, MO
[biofuel] Bush - Crimes Against Nature
Crimes Against Nature Bush is sabotaging the laws that have protected America's environment for more than thirty years By Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is chief prosecuting attorney for the Hudson Riverkeeper and the senior attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council. http://www.rollingstone.com/features/nationalaffairs/featuregen.asp?pid=2154 George W. Bush will go down in history as America's worst environmental president. In a ferocious three-year attack, the Bush administration has initiated more than 200 major rollbacks of America's environmental laws, weakening the protection of our country's air, water, public lands and wildlife. Cloaked in meticulously crafted language designed to deceive the public, the administration intends to eliminate the nation's most important environmental laws by the end of the year. Under the guidance of Republican pollster Frank Luntz, the Bush White House has actively hidden its anti-environmental program behind deceptive rhetoric, telegenic spokespeople, secrecy and the intimidation of scientists and bureaucrats. The Bush attack was not entirely unexpected. George W. Bush had the grimmest environmental record of any governor during his tenure in Texas. Texas became number one in air and water pollution and in the release of toxic chemicals. In his six years in Austin, he championed a short-term pollution-based prosperity, which enriched his political contributors and corporate cronies by lowering the quality of life for everyone else. Now President Bush is set to do the same to America. After three years, his policies are already bearing fruit, diminishing standards of living for millions of Americans. I am angry both as a citizen and a father. Three of my sons have asthma, and I watch them struggle to breathe on bad-air days. And they're comparatively lucky: One in four African-American children in New York shares this affliction; their suffering is often unrelieved because they lack the insurance and high-quality health care that keep my sons alive. My kids are among the millions of Americans who cannot enjoy the seminal American experience of fishing locally with their dad and eating their catch. Most freshwater fish in New York and all in Connecticut are now under consumption advisories. A main source of mercury pollution in America, as well as asthma-provoking ozone and particulates, is the coal-burning power plants that President Bush recently excused from complying with the Clean Air Act. Furthermore, the deadly addiction to fossil fuels that White House policies encourage has squandered our treasury, entangled us in foreign wars, diminished our international prestige, made us a target for terrorist attacks and increased our reliance on petty Middle Eastern dictators who despise democracy and are hated by their own people. When the Republican right managed to install George W. Bush as president in 2000, movement leaders once again set about doing what they had attempted to do since the Reagan years: eviscerate the infrastructure of laws and regulations that protect the environment. For twenty-five years it has been like the zombie that keeps coming back from the grave. The attacks began on Inauguration Day, when President Bush's chief of staff and former General Motors lobbyist Andrew Card quietly initiated a moratorium on all recently adopted regulations. Since then, the White House has enlisted every federal agency that oversees environmental programs in a coordinated effort to relax rules aimed at the oil, coal, logging, mining and chemical industries as well as automakers, real estate developers, corporate agribusiness and other industries. Bush's Environmental Protection Agency has halted work on sixty-two environmental standards, the federal Department of Agriculture has stopped work on fifty-seven standards, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration has halted twenty-one new standards. The EPA completed just two major rules -- both under court order and both watered down at industry request -- compared to twenty-three completed by the Clinton administration and fourteen by the Bush Sr. administration in their first two years. This onslaught is being coordinated through the White House Office of Management and Budget -- or, more precisely, OMB's Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, under the direction of John Graham, the engine-room mechanic of the Bush stealth strategy. Graham's specialty is promoting changes in scientific and economic assumptions that underlie government regulations -- such as recalculating cost-benefit analyses to favor polluters. Before coming to the White House, Graham was the founding director of the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis, where he received funding from America's champion corporate polluters: Dow Chemical, DuPont, Monsanto, Alcoa, Exxon, General Electric and General Motors. Under the White House's guidance, the very agencies entrusted to protect Americans from
