[biofuels-biz] Genome map shows how bacterium gobbles radiation
http://www.enn.com/news/2003-12-12/s_11257.asp Genome map shows how bacterium gobbles radiation Friday, December 12, 2003 By Reuters WASHINGTON - A bacterium that can remove uranium contamination from groundwater may also be able to generate electricity, U.S. researchers said Thursday. Scientists who deciphered the gene map of Geobacter sulfurreducens say it has more than 100 genes that should enable it to make chemical changes in metals that would generate electricity. Writing in the journal Science, they said the bacterium might be useful in generating electricity deep underwater, for instance, and might be far more useful than previously thought in cleaning up the environment. The genome of this tiny microorganism may help us to address some of our most difficult cleanup problems and to generate power through biologically based energy sources, U.S. Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham said in a statement. This genome sequence and the additional research that it makes possible may lead to new strategies and biotechnologies for cleaning up groundwater at DOE (the Department of Energy) and at industry sites. The team at The Institute for Genomic Research in Rockville, Maryland and at the University of Massachusetts found G. sulfurreducens had 100 or more genes that appear to encode for various forms of c-type cytochromes. These are proteins that help move electrons back and forth. It also has genes that help it find metallic compounds. Plus the bacterium, previously thought to be able to exist only in the absence of oxygen, may have genes that would allow it to function when oxygen is present. We've provided a comprehensive picture that has led to fundamental changes in how scientists evaluate this microbe, said Barbara Methe, the TIGR researcher who led the study. The first Geobacter species to be discovered, G. metallireducens, was found in sediments from the Potomac River, which separates Maryland from Virginia in the Washington D.C. area. G. sulfurreducens was found in a soil sample in Oklahoma that was contaminated by hydrocarbons -- breakdown products of fossil fuel combustion. University of Massachusetts researcher Derek Lovley and colleagues have previously found that G. sulfurreducens can convert uranium that is dissolved in water to a solid compound called uraninite, which can then be removed. The bacteria removed about 70 percent of the uranium from a contaminated underground aquifer. Source: Reuters Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: I called the EPA today
As a small user of off road diesel the term onroad use is the first thing I see in most the information. This assumes there is a different criterion for off road use and production. Is this so? Or is the difference so little in setting up a plant that is makes no difference? My thought is that off road use is a smaller market, but the current production doesn't make a dent anyhow. Today,legally producing biodiesel for onroad use requires either spending several million dollars and several years to conduct a round of these tests, or joining the NBB for access to their data, (paying a $5,000 per year fee to the NBB, plus a production tax to the NBB for every gallon sold (or giving the NBB $100,000 as a non-member and hoping that they'll give it back to you by 2015 which they might not. In this way the NBB hopes to get back the money it spent on the Tier I and Tier II testing and the EPA supports them in this). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Burnveggies] Re: [Biodiesel] Fwd: I called the EPA today
This testing is very expensive- Tier I (literature review, and emissions testing) can cost up to $300,000 and Tier II (animal tests) can cost several million dollars. The National Biodiesel Board is the only entity that has carried out both of these rounds of testing as per the EPA requirements. As for Tier II animal tests: I had a mouse fall into a small pail of BIO and swim around for more than a day. It was a bit tired and wet when extricated. General Health was good. I feel the mouse and the Biodiesel both passed the test. Cotter ___ Burnveggies mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://goblin.punk.net/mailman/listinfo/burnveggies
[biofuel] Re: Newbie looking for advice
My disclaimer is the same as your. I have never made biodiesel, I am just looking at the options. For heating your fuel, there is a cheaper, more environmental friendly way to do it. Build a biomass gasifier and use that to for your heat source. You cna find some info about how to build a gasifier at http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/3.shtml. I recently built one and it works really well. Mine is powered by woodchips that I get from the local dump (they have thousands of tons of the things. Check with your local dump, there is a good chance they either have them or know where to get them free) and is currently running an old chevy straight 6 that is coupled to a 10kw generator. I have a second gasifier that has a blower on it and is connected to my foundry. The temp is controlled by the blower speed. It can be controled pretty accuratly this way (within 10 degrees anyway). I have still not figured out where to get the WVO to start with. Do you just call your local mcdonalds and ask them if you can have some of their old oil? If/when I get this figured out (hint, hint somebody pls give me some advice on this one) I do at least know how I am going to heat and power the thing economically (the rest I am still working on). If you are looking for off grid, I think the gasifier is your best bet. I just got my system up and runnign about a week ago. I pulled the breaker at the meter (yes, we have a main breaker right bellow the meter) and we have been off grid ever since, except fo a couple hours where I turned the main breaker back on and shut down my engine to check it for tar deposits (happy to report there were none evident at all). If you want/need more info on gasifiers, let me know. It is actually an incredibly simple thing. I built mine entirely out of junk that I salvaged from the local dump or had sitting in my barn. I don't now if I would want to use one to run a vehicle, but for running either a stationary generator or for heating stuff (like a foundry or a big drum full of vegetable oil) it works great! --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Aaron F. Wieler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Disclaimer: I still haven't made BD. I can still think and use a calculator, though. OK... You're looking at a lot of electricity to heat your fuel through the reaction. I would suggest that you consider heating the WVO in a separate container with WVO, biodiesel, or byproduct before the reaction. Then you can insulate the reactor, and use electricity for keeping everything hot, once it's at the reaction temperature. Also, it seems to me that the foolproof method is a lot more energy intensive because of the long process time, and the need to re-heat the oil (whatever it is at this point) after the first stage. Insulate. Also, depending on the size of your battery bank, it might take awhile to recouperate after running a reaction, unless you are using your generator (which is legitimate here, i would say.) Good luck. I'm trying to make an off-grid BD processor too. I'm going the direction of pre-heating WVO with fuel, then using good insulation and only a little PV-generated electricity to run the pump and maybe keep the oil warm with an electric immersion heat element. -Aaron On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have been following this list for a while know and am very interested in making Biodiesel for my own use. I am building a retirement home in northern Michigan that is a totally off grid. We have solar and wind power for our electric. I have installed a solar wall for some of my heat and the Biodiesel would work great for my Diesel generator, bulldozer, and pickup truck. I am thinking of going with Aleks Kac's Foolproof method for making it. I was wondering what some of you think of this method? I have a good source for the WVO so it won't be a problem. I am still looking for a good source for the Methanol and sulfuric acid. I have found it online but it is a little pricey. I also see it takes 10% phosphoric acid. I am not a chemist at all and don't know what that is or where to look for it. I found a higher percentage online but don't know if that was what I needed or not. I hope these questions are not to dumb but I want to make sure I start this out right. I am making my processor with pumps and hoses so I don't have to stir and pour any fluids. I am also using water heater elements to do my heating so I won't have any open flames to contend with. If I want to run B100 for my Generator will the fuel supplement that I use now for the off road fuel work to keep my pour point good in the winter or should I mix it with the off road fuel? Any advice anyone can send my way would be great. I sure want to make this work it sounds great and will fit in with the rest of my projects to get away from the oil and power companies.
[biofuel] Re: Studied Neglect
First off, solar is not a good alternative yet. The environmental cost associated with building them and the high initial cost make solar a pretty poor competitor. I will agree with you entirely on the net metering thing. I live in ks, where there is no net metering, and the interconnection standards are prohibitive. I am hoping that after another year or two there will be better data on the effects of net metering (like actualy cost to utilities, etc...) and we can take it back to our state politicians and say look, here are hard numbers showing that the opposition was wrong. Short of that, a good old fashioned oil embargo might be our only chance. Unfortunatly, right now we have a president with no environmental policy. Luckily, he is doing everything in his power to piss off the folks in the middle east who have their hands on the big oil valve. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The other day I spoke to a woman near Tucson, Arizona (an hour from where I am moving) who had done a lot with her 5 acres, her livestock, her house and who and some real interest and expertise in engineering. She had looked into installing some solar PV a year or two ago and had run into the really bad Net Metering laws or practices that were in place in her area. There was no way that financially the math could add up for her to install the PV. Not being wealthy enough to do such a project for do-gooder reasons, she opted to wait it out. She had also run into a Colorado resident who had run into precisely the same raw deal. I've *never* heard the President or Vice President discuss or mention this issue, and yet it is central to promulgating a new Distributed Energy Paradigm (which they imply they want but apparently don't actually give a damn about). This is deliberate neglect of an issue, in my view, perpetrated in order to stall the implementation of a good idea. We see that the best way to defeat a good idea is to nip it in the bud from the onset by not allowing that it even exists, by never mentioning it, never bringing it up, never discussing it. Anyone who tries to do so is dismissed as overly-concerned about obscure overly-environmental impractical nonsense. There are of course other technologies and nuances to technological and societal and political science issues which also suffer from this intensely effective strategy of studied neglect. Regenerative brakes come to mind, not to mention one or two biofuel-related issues, not to mention some other solar- energy related issues. But I think it is worthwhile to mention this particular area, of Net-Metering. It's been obvious for many years now that some leadership at the national level is needed to at least bring some attention to this issue, if not to offer streamlined and *fair* guidelines or laws, that will make sure that neither consumer nor utility get a raw deal. MM Do not be so sure, they are professional on making mistakes. Think about all the money spent on finding WMDs and Iraqi freedom . As a byproduct of this mistake, they now control maybe the largest oil reserves on Earth. The money that is spent on hydrogen freedom car, might end up to be a competitive range of diesel engines. VW seems to have close to 50% of that market otherwise. When the current administration use the word freedom, it can be anything. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ethanol Fixing Old Cars
Is this true!? All we have to do is fix a bunch of old cars and we can have all of the ethanol running vehicles our society could ever desire? What kind of an engine are we talking about? Gasoline? Diesel? Any modifications? Edward Mendoza [EMAIL PROTECTED] 707.537.7392 211 Hayman Court Santa Rosa, CA 95409 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: What's the true story on ethanol?
I feel the same way. I just can't understand why no one is willing to fix up old cars (and do things to improve their emissions). Everytime I talk to someone about it, they act like I am crazy. -Al Al, we are crazy ;) I have wondered how local subsidies for catalytic converters would change regional emissions in Santa Cruz. Big problems small solutions. Dave Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: What's the true story on ethanol?
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed, I love mistakes in engineering. On the issue of what's different between then and now, I'm not sure if even he could have overcome, with or without mistakes, the deliberate studied neglect of important technologies and industries and issues by the present powers-that-be. Murdoch, What deliberate studied neglect of important technologies and industries and issues by the present powers-that-be did you have in mind specifically? I'm curious. Dave Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Economics of ethyl ester biodiesel process
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, alon s. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:. I am working on building a still apparatus , but if the price of ethanol is so high isn't it more worth while to sell the ethanol instead of making bidiesle with it? Alon Sfarim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alon, Great questions and I am excited to hear what you are doing. I believe that the cost of ethanol is partially due to the cost of transporting it to you. Where is the ethanol made in your area and from what feedstock? Producing the ethanol yourself is the way to go for many reasons. As you stated there is a strong market for it. It can be used to make biodiesel. Diesel engines can be modified to run on it. Internal combustion engines can be modified (just the fuel system really) to run on it. What is more worth while all depends on what you are trying to do. Please keep us informed. Dave Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Newbie looking for advice
Hi Rick Hi all, I have been following this list for a while know and am very interested in making Biodiesel for my own use. I am building a retirement home in northern Michigan that is a totally off grid. We have solar and wind power for our electric. I have installed a solar wall for some of my heat and the Biodiesel would work great for my Diesel generator, bulldozer, and pickup truck. I am thinking of going with Aleks Kac's Foolproof method for making it. I was wondering what some of you think of this method? It's the best method, for quite a few reasons (lots of information in the archives about that). However, what it says right at the top is this: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Here being: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start I have a good source for the WVO so it won't be a problem. I am still looking for a good source for the Methanol and sulfuric acid. I have found it online but it is a little pricey. I also see it takes 10% phosphoric acid. Not necessarily, it's optional. I am not a chemist at all and don't know what that is or where to look for it. I found a higher percentage online but don't know if that was what I needed or not. I hope these questions are not to dumb but I want to make sure I start this out right. I am making my processor with pumps and hoses so I don't have to stir and pour any fluids. I am also using water heater elements to do my heating so I won't have any open flames to contend with. Again, you're not starting at the beginning. Do some small test batches using the single-stage method, use virgin oil first, then waste vegetable oil, learn about titration - do the basics. Getting some basic experience first will give you a much better idea of how to build a processor. It's often remarked that making biodiesel doesn't lend itself well to armchair theorizing. There's no substitute for just doing it. It's easy - make a start, start in the right place, then just keep going. If I want to run B100 for my Generator will the fuel supplement that I use now for the off road fuel work to keep my pour point good in the winter or should I mix it with the off road fuel? Not very well, if your off-road fuel is normal petro-diesel. From a recent post: For winterizer/antigel/Pour point depressant additives you really need one that's specifically formulated for biodiesel, made-over products usually used for petro-diesel don't work very well. There's this one: http://www.powerservice.com/arcticexpress_biodiesel_antigel.asp Power Service Products -- Arctic Express Biodiesel Antigel ... but from what I've been hearing this is the most effective: http://www.biofuelsystems.com/wintron.htm Biofuel Systems Limited - Wintron XC30 - Biodiesel winter additive Best Keith Any advice anyone can send my way would be great. I sure want to make this work it sounds great and will fit in with the rest of my projects to get away from the oil and power companies. Thanks for the help Rick M Brownstown, Mi. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Studied Neglect
It is now several countries in Europe who is effectively working on active distributed grids, Germany and The Netherlands are the most visible samples, but the Nordic countries as well and several of the new EU members. It is actually EU directives in that direction. The same on Biofuels and effective building codes. I am today more positive on what is going on in EU, than I was a year ago. Good. I do think this is important. If there is a strong competitive incontovertible lead that the US has lost, then if we point to it we in the US can use it as an example and ask How could we be so behind if we fancy ourselves to be so awesome? I do not know why US have all those road blocks, if it is not a corrupted administration. I heard a speech by Al Gore and he seemed to understand the energy issues and also know of the development in EU. I think Kerry is equally as strong as anyone including Gore, in general, on energy issues. I heard him once address how this came to be. He claimed that in a decade or so of sitting on the Energy Committee, with Al Gore and others, they had heard a lot of learned testimony, and that this had helped him to better understand the various issues. I question whether Kerry will be the nominee. If not Kerry, then I'm sort of hoping Clark is, but I'm not sure why. The large shift towards diesel engine is not a random event. VWs determination to get where they are today, world leader in diesel engines, is not random either. I do not know what to say to cheer you up, I assume that this about EU does not really help you. I attended the Daimler-Chrysler press conference at evs20.org, and they made a point of emphasizing that Diesel would be part of their strategy in the US, in the interim transition toward fuel cells, so that was worth looking forward to. Virtually everyone else there wasn't that into it, but I know that getting decent diesels into the hands of consumers is good for giving them more options on the biofuel front and high-mileage front, so I was ok with it. I did not know that this about net-metering was only lip-service in US and was a bit surprised. On paper US looks very progressive on it. Interesting information, but a bit sad. I have the feeling that the net-metering situation in the US varies from place to place. In some places, it is probably not-bad. In others, it is probably a pain in the neck. What I'd like to see is for it to become a topic of conversation, and for the Federal Government to issue guidelines so that the most outrageous anti-common-sense net-metering programs can be shamed into compliance with a better standard. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: What's the true story on ethanol?
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:07:49 -, you wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed, I love mistakes in engineering. On the issue of what's different between then and now, I'm not sure if even he could have overcome, with or without mistakes, the deliberate studied neglect of important technologies and industries and issues by the present powers-that-be. Murdoch, What deliberate studied neglect of important technologies and industries and issues by the present powers-that-be did you have in mind specifically? I'm curious. Dave I have posted my views on the neglect of Net-Metering, as an issue, below in a thread with the subject heading studied neglect. Other examples I guess might be that two of the top American PV makers are struggling and near-bankruptcy, even as they should be receiving record orders from the govt sector as well as the private sector. Does anyone care about this at all? Is there any mention of it at all? There is no comment on this anywhere, nor on the inappropriate Oil-Industry domination of that industry. I have also mentioned elsewhere at length that in my view BEVs have been somewhat more viable than has been allowed-for, and that Chevron-Texaco's partial-stewardship of a critical technology (NiMH batteries) has been under-publicized and probably over-foot-dragged. Another example I guess might be the one or two paragraphs VP Cheney seemed to devote to Renewables discussion, in his major presentation to Congress presenting the results of his task force's efforts. He conspicuosly avoided lengthy discussion of such outrageous topics as solar energies and others. He was abrupt and dismissive of renewables. Again: the weapon he wields here is to discuss these technologies as little as possible, as though they are crap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: What's the true story on ethanol?
Murdoch, Once again it comes to mind that I'd love to see an alcohol fuel cell for cars. I'm *very* into the ethanol powered fuel cell developments, but I don't think we ought to put energies towards developing fuel cells for vehicle use per se. Just think of all the copper that would be needed! Ahh, the wheels of capitalism they do turn. We need to stop the assembly lines cold-turkey and fix up the millions of cars that have already been produced and are lying dormant. I'm radical, I know ;) That's what Cuba did after the revolution, faced with US embargos. If Cuba can do it why not the US? Or do we need to embargo the US? (And all the other OECD countries too?) Jack said: Quite simply we need to rethink our design of industry. Need to and have to - this ridiculous and wasteful over-consumption by rich nations living like there's no tomorrow simply has to stop. Consumption: The act or process of consuming. The state of being consumed. Which is which, these days? Also: A progressive wasting of body tissue. Consumptionism. Cold-turkey, yes. Best Keith There is some *great* work being done with ethanol powered fuel cells. Shelly Minteers at Saint Louis University has been working on one that will fit in laptops and cell phones, charge on a small amount of moonshine, and power your applications much longer than a traditional battery. It would sound too good to be true if it didn't make so much sense. Finally ethical design is reaching the mainstream (like Keith's earlier post about 'economics as if energy mattered')! Check out Shelly at: http://www.slu.edu/readstory/newsinfo/2474 Dave Shaw Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
If Rudolf Diesel was able to make an engine which runs on SWO in 1913 I don't see the reason why it can't be done in 2003. The Elsbett motor ran on SVO as standard, and was the forerunner of the modern direct injection diesels. Darren posted this a while back: http://www.eilishoils.com/pages/news.htm see July ?, 2003 Ireland's FIRST PPO car. it started perfectly each time in temperatures of -20 deg C and lower After all we are trying to explore life on Mars! If for DIY guy takes $300 to make car to run on SWO, I don't see why car makers couldn't do it as an option - a truly multi-fuel car. I think Canada alone can grow canola oil for the whole world to run on. Uh-huh - monocrop deserts, industrialised agriculture, heavily dependent on fossil-fuel inputs, and using (wasting) yet more fossil fuels to transport the product vast distances. Do you really think that offers any answers? Keith Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Commercial production
Hi Hakan Keith, It is so many who does a great job in sharing, Yourself, Girl Mark, Todd, MM and many others, that both are vocal and silent. This is your profit and it is huge and rewarding. It is the only way to get a movement in the right direction going. The atmosphere on the JTF list is constructive and positive, even during hard energy political. (and sometimes less to do with energy), are discussed. It is a very good group. I joined a few groups, to see if I found ones that I could recommend in my different sections. It is a large difference, except for a few where most members also are involved with JTF and that are specialized in a good way. I found out where some persons did go, when they left JTF, interesting experience of good and bad. Yes, isn't it just. Of course the information on JTF is going to be partially used for commercial production and it is nothing wrong with that. Depends how it's done. I do hope and belive that the JTF site and the discussion group will be able to rub of its generally good ethics and it is more effective than trying to set guide lines or some sort of rules. I think it has been, but there are many cases where it hasn't been. That's why I'd like to spell a few things out, inasmuch as they're able to be spelled out. Setting a good example is often the most effective. Yes. Rules are useless, guidelines might be useful, examples are best, and we do have a few good ones. Thanks Hakan. Regards Keith Hakan At 21:13 14/12/2003, you wrote: Hi Hakan Keith, I misunderstood, probably because I read one of the answers who assume that this was the question, before I answered. No problem Hakan. We have our site http://energysavingnow.com/http://energysavingnow.com/ who deals with our quite unique research and experiences concerning buildings, plus some education on energy in general, information that can result in spectacular energy savings. What we have to communicate is free to use, otherwise the publication of it is meaningless. My understanding is that JFT has the same goals together with anyone who publish descriptions on how to make things on our sites. It is at the end almost always the case that someone makes money on this kind of information, it is the nature of it. The one who applies it will save money and others can sell methods or equipment that saves energy (make money). The only problem is that we now not only put in many hours of work on this, we also have to pay the costs. It is however the only way to try to make a difference that counts at the end. JTF and your work is a good example on this for biofuels. Even if I misunderstood the question, the answer covers in a way the original question also. If we at this stage wanted to make money, we would not publish our knowledge and instead continue as consulting engineers. We would only publish our impressive results from Sweden and then use our knowledge against remuneration. This way we would earn money, but our capacity would not be enough to make the slightest difference on the energy total energy situation. That's exactly right. For us it's much broader than energy issues, but the same applies. Others will use our information and get money. This is good, because it will rapidly further our cause and maybe make an important addition to solving the total problem. This is the nature of education and publication. I cannot say much more about it, without duplicating or direct copying of what you are saying. There's something about givers and takers - give to givers and take from takers, we used to say. Takers take and nothing else happens, nothing comes back, nothing spreads, nothing grows, nothing changes. Stony ground. That's what I want to establish. We can't stop people just taking and never adding anything in exchange, but I think it would help a lot to lay it out clearly just what sort of biofuels (and other) businesses we support and why (not just me, all of us), and what we don't support, and why. Mark's already laid the groundwork for the second bit: From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:11:41 -0800 Subject: [biofuel] Homebrewer on a soapbox! was A Response to snip But more importantly for me, as it's less obvious to most people- since when are small producers and homebrewers lumped together on one team? People certainly go from being the latter to the former, but a lot of folks are all excited about starting small producer businesses without having made a liter of homebrew first. It's important to realize that we are not the same, there's not this big industry vs homebrewersandsmallproducers thing, we have three separate agendas that may or may not overlap. case in point: I've met a good number of people since the relaxing of government regs here, who have a huge glimmer in their eyes and are seeing big bucks in the
Re: [biofuel] Economics of ethyl ester biodiesel process
Hello Alon I have question for the biodiesel makers in the group. I had gathered some materials here in Israel, for making biodisel. Have you made any yet? I am using ethanol not methanol . Both from health and environmental reasons. And I am wondering if it is worth while, economically I brought potassium hydroxide for 0.81 cents a kg very chip indeed I will also have to include the cost of caustic soda for reducing fat acids in the two stage process, Huh? but it is only small amount. I don't know what this means. Which two-stage process? At any rate, either or both of them can use KOH (potassium hydroxide) OR NaOH (sodium hydroxide, caustic soda, lye), but not both. And finally the most expensive ingredient - ethanol. I have checked with the local chemical supply store there it cost 3.21 $ per liter of synthetic alcohol which supposed to be chipper then distilled one . But you say you want to use ethanol for health and environmental reasons, and synthetic ethanol is derived from fossil-fuel sources. I will need 300 ml per liter , so the cost is something like 0.96 $ per liter if you include the other materials and labor it comes to like 1.10$ - 1.20$ per liter of biodiesel . Today I been at the gas station and they had a sale of diesel at 0.636$ a liter the normal price of diesel is 0.74$ liter so it seems that if I won't find chipper source of ethanol it is not economical for my to make biodiesel. I am interested in what solution other people using the ethyl ester process had find to the high ethanol price, and where do they find chip source of ethanol, that is without distilling it themselves . I am working on building a still apparatus , but if the price of ethanol is so high isn't it more worth while to sell the ethanol instead of making bidiesle with it? Well, the answers to those questions will be different for everyone. At any rate it looks like you haven't made any biodiesel yet. Once you do, I think you'll have a somewhat different outlook on all this, and, probably, a different set of questions. So make a start, make some small test batches - but DON'T use ethanol, and DON'T use a two-stage process. All experienced biofuellers say ethanol and two-stage methods are advanced methods, not for novices. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Best Keith Alon Sfarim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] washing of the water and pollution
I have considered biodiesel production for some years now and wonder about the confusions and the truth about several procedures.Doing it right and cleanly should be upmost in everyone's mind.The Big Oil Business has a terrible record of doing anything cleanly as i know from years of living in the oil patch and working and transporting many,many loads of crude [i am NOT the enemy!] To western ranchers,oil revenue is just slowing down the time until they loose the farm and oil companies have left many areas totally distroyed for any use;salt water left to pour out in every direction from the 1920's until the 60's when they were forced to contain it and pump it back underground [going lord knows where].Nothing will ever grow in these areas except a few salt cedars.To seperate oil from water in tanks that want cooperate,we brought in a hot-oil-treatment truck which circulated the tank oil thru the truck-mounted heater for several hours[sometimes,this did not work after several attempts and this bad oil was sold to a salvage company] I want to know how to produce biodiesel right before i start Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then just keep going. Best Keith [maybe using animal fats from a very large facality ] .Even the shape of process containers are in the argument among the bio people. Thanks,ken malone Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 86 mercedes w126?
Newdlhead wrote: I give up! I give up! But you haven't. :-) I have been to all the BIO sites I can find. Benz sites too. I can't find a shred of information on the Mercedes 86 W126 300SDL in regard to Biodiesel conversion and reliability issues. Biodiesel conversion. What's biodiesel conversion? No conversion required for biodiesel. On the same token, there was nothing I could find on the 77-85 W123 300D, which I thought strange, for there was many references made to W123s at various Biodiesel websites and forums. But I must be blind. Or losing it. I mean, is it me, or did Mercedes Benz use to have a page on their server addressing the subject of Biodiesel in W126s? I've never heard of any Merecedes diesel that had any problems running on biodiesel. I could have sworn they did. Them, or The MBCA. Or one of their chapter's sites. But I can't find the link on any of my computers. I fear the link might be on my WebTV account, still paid for, but not used for 2 years. Even though I don't want to lose those bookmarks, I rather buy an SUV and hack the catalytic converter off and drive around like that, than spend the time it takes to access WebTV. I may go to hell for Biodiesel crimes, but at least it won't be WebTV hell. Regardless, Thank God I have you folks to turn to instead. So, are there any sites devoted to Mercedes running BIO diesel? And does anyone know of a source of information in regard to the 86 Mercedes straight six turbo diesel engine? Whether it be in a W124 or W126? I'd like to run mine on SVO. Ah. SVO is not biodiesel. For SVO you need a conversion - though some people with older Mercedes diesels claim you can just chuck it in and go. Maybe so. If anything can handle that it'd be an older Mercedes diesel. Is this engine di or id? 86 will surely be id. Are the sensitive rubber parts isolated to the fuel line, or is the $900 injector pump riddled with rubber bands? Now if you'll be using biodiesel that would be a concern, but since you'll be using SVO it's not a concern. Can the injector pump on this engine be modified, meaning retarded, or is it non BIO convertible? Whereas I will have it crushed, and go out a buy a W123, and convert that instead. Are there actually people out there running W123s on straight SVO, unmodified? Can SVO be thinned with ethanol, or some other 'clean' additive, or any type of alcohol, or will the resulting mixture be too volatile, resulting in a torched Benz and torched brows? I mean, kerosene is added to diesel fuel in the winter. That is flammable. It was used a lot back in the 80's, and I don't recall ever seeing anyone fill up at a diesel/kerosine pump who had scorched eyebrows or a vehicle with a nuked hood with fried paint crumbling off in the breeze. Kerosene is a lot less volatile than ethanol or methanol. It's about the same as petro-diesel. Regarding ethanol, have a look at the ACREVO study: http://www.nf-2000.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm But here's more to this than just thinning it. I'd suggest a good read of that study. Is there any 'over the supermarket counter' vegetable oil products that can be poured straight into the tank? Do clean SVOs such as raipseed, corn oil, etc., need 'still' modifying, or are these fine straight out or there package so long as all the filters and fuel line heaters have been added? I understand Biodiesel here is soy based, not as good for certain engines as raipseed. Any comments? Not much difference - but you keep switching between biodiesel and SVO, and they're essentially different. Do you know the difference? Can I get my eco-paws on a jug of raipseed oil on this continent, or is there a law in the United States prohibiting seeds from being raiped? :-( It's called rapeseed, and it's the same as canola. I won't go near WVO. I am willing to spend a bit to get the car in proper order for using SVO. I am willing to spend more for the fuel, too. The goal here is 'green', not 'free'. Though I would like to keep cost down by doing it myself. Is an Elsbett kit absolutely necessary? No, but it's about the best you can do. SVO or biodiesel or petrodiesel, in any combination, no bother with two tanks and switching fuels, switch on and go, stop and switch off. It will also handle good-quality WVO without problems. On the other hand, is SVO much better than gas, in regard to pollution, once the injector pump is retarded a few degrees, Again, that's something you do with biodiesel, to get the motor running cooler and cut the NOx emissions. Never heard of it being done with SVO, maybe it is. or am I better off driving a late model Honda? Honda's engines run so clean, their 1975 Civic needed no catalytic converter to meet emission requirements. This at a time when all the European cars, including Mercedes, where choking on there emission controls. Lastly, can a catalytic converter from a gas fired vehicle be used on a Biodiesel conversion so long as one sticks to SVO, so no sulfur sticks to
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
It seems to me that SVO is a better solution then ethanol. Why?- Because it is easy to make and easy to get, license free. One really doesn't have to make aplant for it - it is very safe too! Alex, we need MORE biofuels options, not less. Anyway in practise it doesn't make good sense to say one proven technology is necessarily better than another, it depends on the particular circumstances. The best technology approach usually ends up with the problem being fitted to the solution, whether it fits well or not, instead of the other way round. Then come all the so-called unexpected side-effects, and the net result is too often just the opposite of what was intended. Lets suppose for a minute that diesel engine could run on SVO without any mods. Will we need diesel fuel or biodiesel ? - No. Why not to put pressure on manufacturers in this case to make diesel engines which can run on SVO without any mods? This is what it says at the TDI-SVO controversy page at Journey to Forever, and I've often said so here, and so have others: ... But in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system does that. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html It's one reason we promote SVO use. The more people use SVO, no matter what system or method they use, the more it's likely to dawn on the manufacturers that there's a demand for SVO diesels. Biodiesel would then have been a transitional fuel, though it will continue to be used for decades in the very many long-lasting diesels around the world made before any shift by manufacturers to full SVO capability. Brazil, with its warm climate , should switch to SVO or Turpentine! instead. Not so, they've established a sound, effective and sustainable system of producing large amounts of fuel ethanol, you'd want them to abandon it for no very clear reason and start all over again with something that might not fit nearly so well? Why this either/or thinking? It needs both/and thinking. Best Keith Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Genome map shows how bacterium gobbles radiation
http://www.enn.com/news/2003-12-12/s_11257.asp Genome map shows how bacterium gobbles radiation Friday, December 12, 2003 By Reuters WASHINGTON - A bacterium that can remove uranium contamination from groundwater may also be able to generate electricity, U.S. researchers said Thursday. Scientists who deciphered the gene map of Geobacter sulfurreducens say it has more than 100 genes that should enable it to make chemical changes in metals that would generate electricity. Writing in the journal Science, they said the bacterium might be useful in generating electricity deep underwater, for instance, and might be far more useful than previously thought in cleaning up the environment. The genome of this tiny microorganism may help us to address some of our most difficult cleanup problems and to generate power through biologically based energy sources, U.S. Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham said in a statement. This genome sequence and the additional research that it makes possible may lead to new strategies and biotechnologies for cleaning up groundwater at DOE (the Department of Energy) and at industry sites. The team at The Institute for Genomic Research in Rockville, Maryland and at the University of Massachusetts found G. sulfurreducens had 100 or more genes that appear to encode for various forms of c-type cytochromes. These are proteins that help move electrons back and forth. It also has genes that help it find metallic compounds. Plus the bacterium, previously thought to be able to exist only in the absence of oxygen, may have genes that would allow it to function when oxygen is present. We've provided a comprehensive picture that has led to fundamental changes in how scientists evaluate this microbe, said Barbara Methe, the TIGR researcher who led the study. The first Geobacter species to be discovered, G. metallireducens, was found in sediments from the Potomac River, which separates Maryland from Virginia in the Washington D.C. area. G. sulfurreducens was found in a soil sample in Oklahoma that was contaminated by hydrocarbons -- breakdown products of fossil fuel combustion. University of Massachusetts researcher Derek Lovley and colleagues have previously found that G. sulfurreducens can convert uranium that is dissolved in water to a solid compound called uraninite, which can then be removed. The bacteria removed about 70 percent of the uranium from a contaminated underground aquifer. Source: Reuters Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 86 mercedes w126?
Here you go for starters... http://www.vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
Some comments: Keith Addison wrote: It seems to me that SVO is a better solution then ethanol. Why?- Because it is easy to make and easy to get, license free. One really doesn't have to make aplant for it - it is very safe too! Alex, we need MORE biofuels options, not less. Anyway in practise it doesn't make good sense to say one proven technology is necessarily better than another, it depends on the particular circumstances. The best technology approach usually ends up with the problem being fitted to the solution, whether it fits well or not, instead of the other way round. Then come all the so-called unexpected side-effects, and the net result is too often just the opposite of what was intended. I agree - I'm just talking as an Ontario resident, here we really can use more sun, but we got lots of productive land and decent hard - working people. Lets suppose for a minute that diesel engine could run on SVO without any mods. Will we need diesel fuel or biodiesel ? - No. Why not to put pressure on manufacturers in this case to make diesel engines which can run on SVO without any mods? This is what it says at the TDI-SVO controversy page at Journey to Forever, and I've often said so here, and so have others: ... But in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system does that. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html It's one reason we promote SVO use. The more people use SVO, no matter what system or method they use, the more it's likely to dawn on the manufacturers that there's a demand for SVO diesels. Biodiesel would then have been a transitional fuel, though it will continue to be used for decades in the very many long-lasting diesels around the world made before any shift by manufacturers to full SVO capability. This is a very reasonable approach. Brazil, with its warm climate , should switch to SVO or Turpentine! instead. Not so, they've established a sound, effective and sustainable system of producing large amounts of fuel ethanol, you'd want them to abandon it for no very clear reason and start all over again with something that might not fit nearly so well? I really don't buy it . It looks like some interest groups greatly benefited from ethanol production. The same old story... Why this either/or thinking? It needs both/and thinking. Agreed. Alex Best Keith Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
Keith Addison wrote: If Rudolf Diesel was able to make an engine which runs on SWO in 1913 I don't see the reason why it can't be done in 2003. The Elsbett motor ran on SVO as standard, and was the forerunner of the modern direct injection diesels. Darren posted this a while back: http://www.eilishoils.com/pages/news.htm see July ?, 2003 Ireland's FIRST PPO car. it started perfectly each time in temperatures of -20 deg C and lower After all we are trying to explore life on Mars! If for DIY guy takes $300 to make car to run on SWO, I don't see why car makers couldn't do it as an option - a truly multi-fuel car. I think Canada alone can grow canola oil for the whole world to run on. Uh-huh - monocrop deserts, industrialised agriculture, heavily dependent on fossil-fuel inputs, and using (wasting) yet more fossil fuels to transport the product vast distances. Do you really think From the point of view of Ontario resident - it can be workable, I think. We already grow canola which is a hardy plant, byproduct can be used as a feed. Now imagine - people are taking a ride to the country on the weekend to visit some local cooperative and to get eggs, butter and oil to ride on! Alex that offers any answers? Keith Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Norway Decides to Put Nature Before Oil
Source: http://www.panda.org/news_facts/newsroom/other_news/news.cfm?uNewsID=10212 15, Dec 2003 Norway to put nature before oil Oslo, Norway - WWF today said the Norwegian government had made history by putting nature before oil when it announced that it would not open the Lofoten Islands to oil development. The decision is a turning point in history of oil development in sensitive areas. The decision is a U-turn for the Norwegian government, which offered the seas off the islands for oil development after oil companies expressed an interest in drilling there. The government has decided not to allow exploration in the area despite claims by the oil companies that there was as much as $US1 billion worth of oil beneath the seas. Pressure from WWF, fishermen, and tourist operators in the last two months, together with deep unease in political and social circles in Norway, forced the government to decide NO to oil drilling in Lofoten, until 2005. WWF expects that in 2005 the government will fully protect the Lofoten Islands on completion of its Barents Sea Management Plan. The Lofoten Islands are home to the world's largest cod and herring stocks, shoals of sperm whales and killer whales, some of the largest sea bird colonies in Europe, including puffin and cormorant, and the world's biggest cold water coral reef, which was only discovered last year. The island community is almost entirely dependent on fishing and tourism for survival. Samantha Smith, director of WWF's Arctic Programme, said: This is a landmark decision which oil companies planning to explore in the Arctic should take note of. Some things are more important than short-term oil and gas profits. It is no longer acceptable to explore for oil in biologically vulnerable and valuable areas. We have seen this happen in the US over the Arctic Refuge and now we have seen it in Lofoten. However, WWF was surprised and disappointed by the government's decision to allow exploratory drilling in the Goliath field off northern Norway. The area is very close to major seabird colonies and fish spawning grounds. Samantha Smith said: The Norwegian government is producing a management plan of the Barents Sea and the idea that it can somehow open up areas of that sea - like Goliath - for oil and gas development before this is completed is crazy and totally inconsistent. WWF will not allow full scale development to take place in Goliath without a major battle. WWF has issued its own report this month, The Barents Sea Ecoregion Biodiversity Assessment, which maps the vulnerable and valuable areas of the Barents. It shows that areas where the oil industry wishes to drill for oil are in some of these most vulnerable areas. The Barents Sea is still one of Europe's last large, clean and relatively undisturbed ecosystems. Among its most spectacular features are the world's highest density of seabirds, some of the world's richest fisheries, and diverse and rare communities of marine mammals. For further information: Samantha Smith WWF Arctic Programme Tel: + 47 22 03 65 18 or +47 45 02 21 49(mobile) Julian Woolford WWF Arctic Programme Tel.: +47 22 03 65 10 or +47 22 20 06 66 (mobile) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?
I only wish they mistakenly start mass-produce such an engine. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Alex, Rudolf Diesel's engine for SVO was a failure, he actually tried to make an engine that was meant to run on coal dust. He got money to develop that and he ended up with an engine that was working with vegetable oil. Maybe we need some more useful mistakes, maybe as a result of the Bush money for the hydrogen car. -:) Hakan At 21:56 15/12/2003, you wrote: If Rudolf Diesel was able to make an engine which runs on SWO in 1913 I don't see the reason why it can't be done in 2003. After all we are trying to explore life on Mars! If for DIY guy takes $300 to make car to run on SWO, I don't see why car makers couldn't do it as an option - a truly multi-fuel car. I think Canada alone can grow canola oil for the whole world to run on. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Economics of ethyl ester biodiesel process
Alon, better modify your car to run on peanut oil. Alex alon s. wrote: I have question for the biodiesel makers in the group. I had gathered some materials here in Israel, for making biodisel. I am using ethanol not methanol . Both from health and environmental reasons. And I am wondering if it is worth while, economically I brought potassium hydroxide for 0.81 cents a kg very chip indeed I will also have to include the cost of caustic soda for reducing fat acids in the two stage process, but it is only small amount. And finally the most expensive ingredient - ethanol. I have checked with the local chemical supply store there it cost 3.21 $ per liter of synthetic alcohol which supposed to be chipper then distilled one . I will need 300 ml per liter , so the cost is something like 0.96 $ per liter if you include the other materials and labor it comes to like 1.10$ - 1.20$ per liter of biodiesel . Today I been at the gas station and they had a sale of diesel at 0.636$ a liter the normal price of diesel is 0.74$ liter so it seems that if I won't find chipper source of ethanol it is not economical for my to make biodiesel. I am interested in what solution other people using the ethyl ester process had find to the high ethanol price, and where do they find chip source of ethanol, that is without distilling it themselves . I am working on building a still apparatus , but if the price of ethanol is so high isn't it more worth while to sell the ethanol instead of making bidiesle with it? Alon Sfarim [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Jeezus Todd Re: methanol recovery before separation
Maria, I did not misread what you wrote. Nor did I respond inaccurately based upon the information relayed, no matter whether the representation was fractional or an exercise in its entirety. Either way, the conclusion that a person was left to make - that the glycerol/soap becomes solvent (vanishes, disappears or whatever) as a result of simply distilling off the alcohol - is erroneous. Doesn't matter if the report comes from the shallow depths of Infopoop or the hallowed halls of Hahvud. And frankly? It would be a big service to everyone if each person who turns the phrase reversed reaction would clarify whether they mean an actual reversed transesterification or a secondary saponification. It's being bandied about so loosely as of late that it's starting to mirror the age-long misinformation that one can make soap out of glycerol. As for surfing the patent offices for documents that allude to reaction reversal, that would be a rather inefficient use of time considering that the problem is non-existant in the bare-bones yet very real world of batch processing. Perhaps if someone has a patent number or link to some other documentation? No doubt that I am but one of many who would be thoroughly intrigued to see some sort of competent report that corroborates, if not quantifies, a truly reversed reaction and under what conditions. As this concern appears to be one that is self-manufactured - a result of trying to expedite production to the theoretical limits under less than advantageous circumstances in the pursuit of increased profits (often erroneously defined as efficiency) - there might be more than sound enough reason to back off from that boundary and reincorporate one or two old school (batch processing) techniques with new school (continual processing) methodologies. A shallow, baffled, in-line separator exterior to the pressurized stream could be included to permit a quick withdrawal of the majority of the glycerin cocktail prior to a vacuum distillation phase. While not exactly a thimble-sized, digital or push-button solution, remove the glycerin cocktail and remove the threat of a self-manufactured problem. And all-in-all, while it may indeed be useful to know exactly where in parts per billion reality lays (or doesn't) under peculiar circumstances, that won't change the fact that CP is not exactly on-line at the moment, nor will it in all probability be on-line, affordable or of other redeeming value relative to micro-regional manufacture. Which puts most that matters right back in the realm of batch processing, inclusive of your clouding problem. You said that you don't know why clouding would pose any barrier to further processing. If you suspect that it's a more-than-usual residual glycerol/soap/catalyst being suspended in the fuel due to some change in the process, why not evaporate the alcohol out of a gallon of fuel after the initial glycerin drop, observe to see if any more glycerin settles and then wash to see if the characteristics change in comparison to a non-evaporated sample? As for any normality of cloudiness? We've never let fuel sit for days or weeks at a time prior to washing. Twenty-four hours is about the max. As for hot washes, maybe in the near future we'll work towards elevated starting temps of the fuel being added to the wash. That's after it has passed through an evaporator to recover the alcohol and then cycled through the reactor's heat exchanger to recover as much process heat as possible. It's altogether possible that our long-since-past nightmares relative to hot water washes were the product of poor glycerin settling or partly incomplete reactions. A lot has improved around here since those days. In the interim? We'll stick with tepid washes and rely on mechanical agitation to achieve a similar degree of dissolution as hot water might. Rather difficult to justify energy expenditures when the same result can be achieved without. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: skillshare [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:57 AM Subject: [biofuel] Jeezus Todd Re: methanol recovery before separation You still weren't listening to what I said (in your hurry to disprove it because I mentioned the awful, terrible name of 'infopop biodiesel forum'. I don' t always agree with what Neutral reports (or anyone else on any forum for that matter, you, me, ken,keith, whomever, we all get confused by things and we all have agendas to prove or disprove a favorite technique) - but he's not the only place I mentioned this reverse reaction info comes from. (and you ignored the patents part. Over on infopop 'they're' not exactly yakking it up about this issue - yes, it s not common, nor are the agitated conditions for it to occur common, so it's not surprising that you and I haven't seen it ourselves. If you'd like more information from actual real people who've worked on this problem rather than me
[biofuel] EPA Health Effects Data (Tier 12)
I have been looking at individual grants that may pertain to Biodiesel. The USDA Rural Developement grant seen here: http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs/coops/vadg.htm seems a good candidate for funding the remainder is the previous attempts data can be salveged. It certainly would produce the kind of environment in which the local producer could maintain (economically) a small and helpfull footprint. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: I called the EPA today- Jim Caldwell's explanation
Mark, Great post. You did a thorough job in your conversation with Jim Caldwell. I wanted to weigh in on the issue of arbitration with the NBB over the use of their Tier 1 test results. I seem to recall Jim saying something similar a long while back when I talked to him about a small producer being likely to negotiate a more favorable deal in arbitration with the NBB. The thing is, I don't know his rationale for that, and i would like to. The one question I have never had satisfactorily answered, and frankly EPA cannot address this, is whether the NBB test results are in fact in the public domain. After all, they were conducted with check-off funds, which come from a federal tax on commodity producers. Still, these are public monies, and I would think that research conducted with them could not be appropriated to an individual or single entity. I did ask this question of someone at the USDA office who deals with check-off funds and they promised to get back to me. Never did, of course, and i never followed up. I would think this would be an easy question for a lawyer to answer. Any takers? thanks again for your post, thor skov Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I called the EPA today- Jim Caldwell's explanation
Hrmm, Well, some ideas might be to get some grant money for 1/2 of the Tier I testing from both public and private sources which would lower the 100 producer input to $1,500. If a non-profit was set up to handle the small producers Tier I testing data it would make the buy in process a lot easier and possibly cover more than 1/2 of the Tier I testing. It is something that was mentioned before, a biodiesel board specifically for WVO processors, only this could be just serving small (sub 1/2 million gal) producers, both SVO and WVO. James Slayden On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, skillshare wrote: snip Costs of Tier I are anywhere from $100,000 to $250,000. The NBB spent some $600,000 I believe. Jim Caldwell suggested it would cost approximately $300,000 and that getting 100 producers together to spend $3,000 would make this affordable. In my opinion, it would be a massive undertaking to make this happen, but this is an option to explore if nothing else works. Lastly, I reiterated that I was talking about commercial producers of onroad fuel for sale, and not about homebrewers making fuel for themselves. I said that my idea of small producer is someone under 500,000 gallons a year or something along those lines (which seems to be `pilot plant' scale for the industry). He then told me that there is no registration process for people who wish to make fuel for their own use- that we are essentially exempt from all of the registration requirements. I also mentioned research and university projects (I'm thinking of student-run projects here rather than something like Iowa State's mechanical engineering program which operates a whole plant for research). He then said that the EPA has a research exemption but it is temporary- he gave some theoretical examples of university projects which typically produce their own fleet onroad fuel for about 5 busses, figuring out the logistics for a couple of years as exempt producer- and that the EPA would require registration and testing once such a theoretical project upscaled to something like 50 busses past the first couple of years of research. He said such research of course needs to be actual research- keeping records, conducting experiments. SO I am now very much wondering about strategy on where to go with all this. I think we're finally reaching the point (at least in California biodiesel) where there could be significant public support for legal challenges and the like. I do agree with Jim's point that legal challenges wouldn't get far if the first option, arbitration with the NBB, didn't get tried. The other route besides arbitration with the NBB would be challenging the EPA itself to change it's rules (which sounds difficult, plus these rules apply across the board to all manufacturers of new fuels and fuel additives and it seems to me like a generally good thing that they are conservative!). The other route besides arbitration and challenging the EPA would be to form a producers' coop to run Tier I testing and making this info public domain (yeah right). Knowing what I know of small business owners, it'd be quite difficult to organize 100 would-be businesses or otherwise take on a project of this scope. Plus there's a catch-22 situation- it's hard to include such a plan as a cornerstone of your business plan while looking for investors to put money into your biodiesel business. Thoughts? mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Newbie looking for advice
Has anyone tried heating with an oil or wood fired boiler then pump the hot water through coils in the tanks for heat. Also you might try using 12v battery/solar powered pumps and motors for mixing and transfer. Mark McElvy . _ From: Aaron F. Wieler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 9:48 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Newbie looking for advice Disclaimer: I still haven't made BD. I can still think and use a calculator, though. OK... You're looking at a lot of electricity to heat your fuel through the reaction. I would suggest that you consider heating the WVO in a separate container with WVO, biodiesel, or byproduct before the reaction. Then you can insulate the reactor, and use electricity for keeping everything hot, once it's at the reaction temperature. Also, it seems to me that the foolproof method is a lot more energy intensive because of the long process time, and the need to re-heat the oil (whatever it is at this point) after the first stage. Insulate. Also, depending on the size of your battery bank, it might take awhile to recouperate after running a reaction, unless you are using your generator (which is legitimate here, i would say.) Good luck. I'm trying to make an off-grid BD processor too. I'm going the direction of pre-heating WVO with fuel, then using good insulation and only a little PV-generated electricity to run the pump and maybe keep the oil warm with an electric immersion heat element. -Aaron On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have been following this list for a while know and am very interested in making Biodiesel for my own use. I am building a retirement home in northern Michigan that is a totally off grid. We have solar and wind power for our electric. I have installed a solar wall for some of my heat and the Biodiesel would work great for my Diesel generator, bulldozer, and pickup truck. I am thinking of going with Aleks Kac's Foolproof method for making it. I was wondering what some of you think of this method? I have a good source for the WVO so it won't be a problem. I am still looking for a good source for the Methanol and sulfuric acid. I have found it online but it is a little pricey. I also see it takes 10% phosphoric acid. I am not a chemist at all and don't know what that is or where to look for it. I found a higher percentage online but don't know if that was what I needed or not. I hope these questions are not to dumb but I want to make sure I start this out right. I am making my processor with pumps and hoses so I don't have to stir and pour any fluids. I am also using water heater elements to do my heating so I won't have any open flames to contend with. If I want to run B100 for my Generator will the fuel supplement that I use now for the off road fuel work to keep my pour point good in the winter or should I mix it with the off road fuel? Any advice anyone can send my way would be great. I sure want to make this work it sounds great and will fit in with the rest of my projects to get away from the oil and power companies. Thanks for the help Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12ciuu91s/M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroup web/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1071633247/A=1853618/R=0/*http:/www.netflix.com/Defa ult?mqso=60178338partid=4116732 click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4116732.5333197.1261774/D=egroupmai l/S=:HM/A=1853618/rand=221634563 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
RE: [biofuel] Re: Newbie looking for advice
I would love to know more info on the biomass gasifier but the site you reference in not in English. Know of any other good sources? Mark McElvy _ From: gcjahnke2000 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 11:54 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Newbie looking for advice My disclaimer is the same as your. I have never made biodiesel, I am just looking at the options. For heating your fuel, there is a cheaper, more environmental friendly way to do it. Build a biomass gasifier and use that to for your heat source. You cna find some info about how to build a gasifier at http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/3.shtml. http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/3.shtml. I recently built one and it works really well. Mine is powered by woodchips that I get from the local dump (they have thousands of tons of the things. Check with your local dump, there is a good chance they either have them or know where to get them free) and is currently running an old chevy straight 6 that is coupled to a 10kw generator. I have a second gasifier that has a blower on it and is connected to my foundry. The temp is controlled by the blower speed. It can be controled pretty accuratly this way (within 10 degrees anyway). I have still not figured out where to get the WVO to start with. Do you just call your local mcdonalds and ask them if you can have some of their old oil? If/when I get this figured out (hint, hint somebody pls give me some advice on this one) I do at least know how I am going to heat and power the thing economically (the rest I am still working on). If you are looking for off grid, I think the gasifier is your best bet. I just got my system up and runnign about a week ago. I pulled the breaker at the meter (yes, we have a main breaker right bellow the meter) and we have been off grid ever since, except fo a couple hours where I turned the main breaker back on and shut down my engine to check it for tar deposits (happy to report there were none evident at all). If you want/need more info on gasifiers, let me know. It is actually an incredibly simple thing. I built mine entirely out of junk that I salvaged from the local dump or had sitting in my barn. I don't now if I would want to use one to run a vehicle, but for running either a stationary generator or for heating stuff (like a foundry or a big drum full of vegetable oil) it works great! --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Aaron F. Wieler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Disclaimer: I still haven't made BD. I can still think and use a calculator, though. OK... You're looking at a lot of electricity to heat your fuel through the reaction. I would suggest that you consider heating the WVO in a separate container with WVO, biodiesel, or byproduct before the reaction. Then you can insulate the reactor, and use electricity for keeping everything hot, once it's at the reaction temperature. Also, it seems to me that the foolproof method is a lot more energy intensive because of the long process time, and the need to re-heat the oil (whatever it is at this point) after the first stage. Insulate. Also, depending on the size of your battery bank, it might take awhile to recouperate after running a reaction, unless you are using your generator (which is legitimate here, i would say.) Good luck. I'm trying to make an off-grid BD processor too. I'm going the direction of pre-heating WVO with fuel, then using good insulation and only a little PV-generated electricity to run the pump and maybe keep the oil warm with an electric immersion heat element. -Aaron On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have been following this list for a while know and am very interested in making Biodiesel for my own use. I am building a retirement home in northern Michigan that is a totally off grid. We have solar and wind power for our electric. I have installed a solar wall for some of my heat and the Biodiesel would work great for my Diesel generator, bulldozer, and pickup truck. I am thinking of going with Aleks Kac's Foolproof method for making it. I was wondering what some of you think of this method? I have a good source for the WVO so it won't be a problem. I am still looking for a good source for the Methanol and sulfuric acid. I have found it online but it is a little pricey. I also see it takes 10% phosphoric acid. I am not a chemist at all and don't know what that is or where to look for it. I found a higher percentage online but don't know if that was what I needed or not. I hope these questions are not to dumb but I want to make sure I start this out right. I am making my processor with pumps and hoses so I don't have to stir and pour any fluids. I am also using water heater elements to do my heating so I won't have any open flames to contend with. If I want to run B100
Re: [biofuel] Re: I called the EPA today- Jim Caldwell's explanation
http://nesoybeans.unl.edu/media_117.html Actually, the check-off funds on soybeans come via the State soybean commodity groups, and, really, from the farmer, don't they? So, do the farmers that funded the creation of the NBB and it's research program agree that the small producer should be faced with onerous costs to get started and have a chance of playing with the big boys? Do they think that there should be opportunity for large numbers of smaller local and regional operations to thrive (perhaps including on-farm biodiesel production, to add value to the product before it leaves the farm gate?) Do they think the research their dollars paid for should only benefit large organizations and that the smaller, independent operator should not have access to it? Ask them. Some of the commodity producer groups have member on the new board, the NBB's first. See link at top of post. Otherwise, get in contact with the individual State soybean producer groups. Ask them their opinion, and if they are unsure, ask them to put it out to the farmers themselves for feedback via their webs sites and newsletters. Here is a list of contacts with live email addresses: http://www.unitedsoybean.org/who_states.cfm It seems to me that all it takes is enough PO'd farmers to say: we paid for it, let it go out to the public, our intention was to make markets for soyoil, not deny opportunity to small business that wants to use our product for a new, environmentally sound, sustainable market for soy oil Edward Beggs On Tuesday, December 16, 2003, at 02:03 PM, Thor Skov wrote: Mark, Great post. You did a thorough job in your conversation with Jim Caldwell. I wanted to weigh in on the issue of arbitration with the NBB over the use of their Tier 1 test results. I seem to recall Jim saying something similar a long while back when I talked to him about a small producer being likely to negotiate a more favorable deal in arbitration with the NBB. The thing is, I don't know his rationale for that, and i would like to. The one question I have never had satisfactorily answered, and frankly EPA cannot address this, is whether the NBB test results are in fact in the public domain. After all, they were conducted with check-off funds, which come from a federal tax on commodity producers. Still, these are public monies, and I would think that research conducted with them could not be appropriated to an individual or single entity. I did ask this question of someone at the USDA office who deals with check-off funds and they promised to get back to me. Never did, of course, and i never followed up. I would think this would be an easy question for a lawyer to answer. Any takers? thanks again for your post, thor skov Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
