[biofuel] Exxonmobil's Historic Contribution To Climate Change Assessed ForThe First Time

[Keith Addison]

http://www.foei.org/media/2004/0129.html
foei press release
friends of the earth international
press release
29 january 2004

Exxonmobil's Historic Contribution To Climate Change Assessed For The 
First Time

read the report
http://www.foei.org/publications/pdfs/exxons_climate_footprint.pdf

London (UK) / Washington DC (USA) January 29, 2004 (EMBARGO)-- A 
landmark report released today reveals that, over the past 120 years, 
the operations and burning of products of oil giant Exxon Mobil [1] 
and its predecessors (since the foundation of the Standard Oil Trust 
in 1882), have caused between 4.7 and 5.3% of all man-made carbon 
dioxide emissions across the globe.

The figures were unveiled as Exxon [NYSE:XOM] releases its annual 
results today and show that the company's total carbon dioxide 
emissions in the past 120 years, at 20.3 billion tonnes, have been 
about three times the current annual global emissions from fossil 
fuels (and about 13 times the annual US emissions).

The new report "Exxon's Climate Footprint" is based on two 
groundbreaking studies carried out by independent experts and 
commissioned by Friends of the Earth. [2]

This is the first time a company's historic contribution to global 
climate change has ever been calculated and could prove vital in 
paving the way for compensation claims against companies by victims 
of global warming caused by man-made pollution.

Carbon dioxide emissions are the principal cause of global warming 
and the report shows that most of the years when ExxonMobil's 
emissions have been highest were after 1996, the year when United 
Nations scientists concluded that man-made pollution had a 
discernible effect on the global climate [3].

Around 70% of the company's emissions have been since 1967, when 
scientists produced "the first reasonably solid evidence" that global 
warming could really happen. [4].

Climate change has started and its predicted impacts are huge. 
Worldwide, hundreds of millions of people could lose their lives or 
livelihoods because of changing rainfall patterns and more severe 
storms. Impacts of climate change in Exxon's home state of Texas 
could include lower agricultural yields, loss of land, and more 
frequent flooding along the US Gulf coast.

The research was carried out by independent experts in the US and New 
Zealand and involved adding up data on fuel used and sold, 
calculating the emissions generated and feeding the results into an 
internationally-recognised computer model. The research, based on 
data Exxon published in its annual reports, and on other sources, 
also shows the impact Exxon-related emissions have had on global 
temperatures and the rise in sea level.

ExxonMobil was chosen as the first company for such an assessment 
because it has repeatedly attempted to undermine the scientific 
consensus on climate change and actively resisted attempts to limit 
carbon dioxide emissions.

Tony Juniper, Vice-chair of Friends of the Earth International said:

"This report should send shivers through the boardrooms of oil 
companies all over the world. For the first time, the historic effect 
of one company, ExxonMobil, on climate change has been identified and 
its products' impacts assessed. We hope this assessment will bring 
forward the day when the victims of climate change can take legal 
action against ExxonMobil for the damage its activities have caused 
and will cause in the future. Exxon shareholders should warn the 
company that the stance it is taking on global warming is leaving it 
vulnerable to legal action and require an assessment of their 
exposure. Other companies that have contributed to climate change 
would also be well-advised to consider whether they face similar 
risks."

Jon Sohn, Senior Policy Analyst at Friends of the Earth US said: 
"ExxonMobil is sticking its head in the sand just like tobacco 
companies that knew the harmful impacts of their product and 
ultimately paid the price. ExxonMobil's greenhouse gas contribution 
is staggering and shareholders can vote for resolutions that force 
the corporation to take action now."

For more information, contact Friends of the Earth climate change experts:

In the USA:

Jon Sohn, Sr. Policy Analyst at +1-202-222-0717 (office) or 
+1-202-412-2467 (mobile)

In the UK:

Tony Juniper, Vice-President of Friends of the Earth International, 
at + 44 207 566 1649 (office) or: +44 (0)7712 843207 (mobile)

OR

Lawyer Peter Roderick at +44 207-388 3141 (office) from the Climate 
Justice Programme [5] who can discuss the legal implications of the 
studies.

Notes for Editors

[1] ExxonMobil trades as Esso, Mobil, Imperial Oil, Tonen General and 
Exxon in different countries.

[2] The report is based on two groundbreaking studies carried out by 
independent experts and commissioned by Friends of the Earth:

a) Heede R. "ExxonMobil Corporation emissions inventory 1882-2002: 
Methods and Results, plus associated spreadsheets", Climate 
Mitigation Services, Sno

[biofuel] What Just One Company Can Do To the World

[Keith Addison]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0129-03.htm
Published on Thursday, January 29, 2004 by the Inter Press Service

What Just One Company Can Do To the World

by Sanjay Suri

LONDON - Just one oil company has thrown three times as much carbon 
dioxide into the air as the current annual emissions from fossil 
fuels, a new study by Friends of the Earth claims.

The study by the leading global environment watchdog says Exxon Mobil 
has produced 20.3 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions in its 
120 years of existence. This it says is about three times the annual 
global emissions now and 13 times the annual emissions from the 
United States.

The many faces of ExxonMobil
The Friends of the Earth International (F0EI) report says that the 
oil giant and its predecessors since the foundation of the Standard 
Oil Trust in 1882 have caused between 4.7 and 5.3 percent of all 
man-made carbon dioxide emissions across the globe.

ExxonMobil has strongly denied the charge made in the report. The 
company trades as Esso, Mobil, Imperial Oil, Tonen General and Exxon 
in different countries.

The report 'Exxon's Climate Footprint' is based on two studies 
commissioned by FoEI. The group says the studies were carried out by 
independent experts in the United States and New Zealand.

"The research involved adding up data on fuel used and sold, 
calculating the emissions generated and feeding the results into an 
internationally recognized computer model," FoEI said in a statement 
Thursday.

"The research, based on data Exxon published in its annual reports, 
and on other sources, also shows the impact Exxon-related emissions 
have had on global temperatures and the rise in sea level."

FoEI says this is the first time a company's contribution to global 
climate change has ever been calculated "and could prove vital in 
paving the way for compensation claims against companies by victims 
of global warming caused by man-made pollution."

The FoEI report shows that about 70 percent of the company's 
emissions have come after 1967 "when scientists produced the first 
reasonably solid evidence that global warming could really happen."

Climate change as a result of global warming produced largely by 
carbon dioxide emissions means that hundreds of millions of people 
could lose their livelihoods because of changing rainfall patterns 
and severe storms, the report says.

A million species face extinction as a result of global warming, FoEI 
says, citing scientists.

The report says that United Nations scientists had warned in 1996 
that man- made pollution was having a discernible effect on the 
global climate. "Seven out of the ten worst years for ExxonMobil's 
emissions have occurred since this warning," the report says.

This is the "best estimate so far of ExxonMobil's contribution to 
climate change," says Peter Roderick, director of the FoEI climate 
justice program."It shows how the company's emissions have 
significantly increased over the years as climate science 
strengthened. This is essential reading for those current and future 
victims of climate change who wish to seek compensation from the 
company."

The report points out that institutional shareholders have already 
expressed concern about business risks associated with climate 
change. The Carbon Disclosure Project, which represents 87 
institutional investors with assets of more than 9 trillion dollars 
under management, has written to the 500 largest quoted companies in 
the world asking for the disclosure of investment-relevant 
information concerning their greenhouse gas emissions.

Challenging the report, a spokeswoman for ExxonMobil told IPS that 
"it seems to us that Friends of the Earth is suggesting that it is 
illegal to be in the business of supplying energy for the world's 
needs".

She said the company needs to examine the "basis, methodology and 
therefore the accuracy of the data" but said that in the past the 
environment group's reports about the company have been "high on 
sensation and low on substance."

The statement that ExxonMobil is not taking a constructive approach 
to the issue of climate change is "completely unfounded," she said. 
The company has taken to conserving energy in refineries and chemical 
plants, resulting in 37 percent more efficiency than 25 years ago, 
she said. "This equates to a decrease in carbon emissions of over 200 
million metric tons."

The company is also "researching new energy systems with much lower 
carbon emissions and increased fuel efficiency," she said. The 
company is the "world's leader" in expanding the use of natural gas 
which is "an attractive way to meet the world's growing demand for 
energy while emitting less carbon than other fossil fuels." The 
company claims to be investing "significant amounts in research of 
climate issues."

The spokeswoman said it is "ridiculous" to suggest that ExxonMobil's 
approach to climate change could affect shareholder value.

FoEI vice-chair Tony 

RE: [biofuel] Great letter Keith - was: I am building a biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

[Bryan Brah]

LOL!

 

-Original Message-
From: Frederick E. Finch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:02 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Great letter Keith - was: I am building a
biodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

 

Keith,

I would be willing to forward my email from Mr. Agidi Chuka  in 
Nigeria.  He could help Mr. Walburn with his financing and make some
extra 
on the side!

fred



At 03:27 AM 2/5/2004 +0900, you wrote:
>It's been a week now and no response from Greg Walburn, founder,
>Biodiesel of America Inc., who asked for "only 3,000 investors who
>want to invest $1000 dollars" in his commercial biodiesel plant (see
>below).
>
>I asked him this, twice:
>
> >>Greg, when exactly did you found (find?) Biodiesel of America Inc.?
> >>And is it indeed duly Inc.'d, fully incorporated? Please provide
> >>some details.
>
> >I'll ask you again: is your Biodiesel of America Inc. something that
> >exists at all, even if only on paper? When was it founded? Please
> >provide details.
>
>Also this:
>
> >Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to?
> >"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you?
>
>Seems to me if he had a reply we'd have heard it by now, if not
>immediately the first time. His scheme does seem rather undeveloped,
>to put it kindly. I'd suggest that 3,000 of our 2,153 members should
>perhaps not hasten to beat a path to his door in order to press a
>thousand dollars into his outstretched palm.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>
>
> >Yes Greg, that's all very well, except that it's not, and except
> >that you didn't answer the questions, and snipped the "Great letter"
> >you're responding to (so I'll put it back, below). All of which
> >rather persuades me that Bryan might be right about snake-oil.
> >That's how the free energy scammers behave.
> >
> >>I agree with some of your assumptions.
> >
> >I didn't make any assumptions, I asked some questions and made some 
> comments.
> >
> >>However when it comes to
> >>capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.
> >
> >There's no need to apologise for any of those. You don't know much
> >about this list, do you? Maybe you'd find this discussion
> >interesting. Or maybe not.
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30316/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30354/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30366/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30401/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30405/
> >
> >>If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would
> >>be much lower if we did not "mass produce".
> >
> >You don't say. Now you're making assumptions, (a) about my standard
> >of living, (b) that I give half a damn about it anyway, and (c) that
> >I've never thought about it, and you're wrong on all counts. And
> >you've completely missed the point, which is a rather crucial one. I
> >suggest you try again.
> >
> >>Yes, there are a number
> >>of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.
> >
> >You've got a market in Nebraska for a plant that size? Or are you
> >planning to truck the product all over the place? You're planning to
> >waste a whole lot more petro-diesel fuel doing that? Or, worse,
> >waste biodiesel doing it? And yet manage to deliver a "cheaper"
> >product. Hm. Have you thought any of this out at all?
> >
> >>The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are
> >>sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take
> >>3% of that market.
> >
> >Did you even read my "Great letter"? You sure didn't hoist much of it

> aboard.
> >
> >>What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to
> >>those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe
> >>me, it takes more time and energy than most think)
> >
> >Sigh... I don't think so.
> >
> >>then we as a
> >>company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best
> >>marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who
> >>want to try.
> >
> >Homebrewers are very aware of safety issues and how to deal with
them.
> >
> >Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to?
> >"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you?
> >
> >>I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is
> >>possible economically.
> >
> >And landfills. And out of the livestock feed as well. I think you
> >equate "economically" with a big, centralised industry, in which
> >case no, it isn't possible. Only about 10% of WVO is accounted for
> >in the US (about the same as other industrialised countries). Waste
> >recycling, of just about anything, doesn't work well unless it's
> >decentralised, the more it's decentralised, the closer it gets to
> >source, the better it works. This is one of many advantages
> >local-niche production has over centralised production.
> >
> >>Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look
> >>into building direct oil engines.
> >

Re: [biofuel] Great letter Keith - was: I am building abiodiesel Plant in Nebraska USA

[Frederick E. Finch]

Keith,

I would be willing to forward my email from Mr. Agidi Chuka  in 
Nigeria.  He could help Mr. Walburn with his financing and make some extra 
on the side!

fred



At 03:27 AM 2/5/2004 +0900, you wrote:
>It's been a week now and no response from Greg Walburn, founder,
>Biodiesel of America Inc., who asked for "only 3,000 investors who
>want to invest $1000 dollars" in his commercial biodiesel plant (see
>below).
>
>I asked him this, twice:
>
> >>Greg, when exactly did you found (find?) Biodiesel of America Inc.?
> >>And is it indeed duly Inc.'d, fully incorporated? Please provide
> >>some details.
>
> >I'll ask you again: is your Biodiesel of America Inc. something that
> >exists at all, even if only on paper? When was it founded? Please
> >provide details.
>
>Also this:
>
> >Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to?
> >"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you?
>
>Seems to me if he had a reply we'd have heard it by now, if not
>immediately the first time. His scheme does seem rather undeveloped,
>to put it kindly. I'd suggest that 3,000 of our 2,153 members should
>perhaps not hasten to beat a path to his door in order to press a
>thousand dollars into his outstretched palm.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>
>
> >Yes Greg, that's all very well, except that it's not, and except
> >that you didn't answer the questions, and snipped the "Great letter"
> >you're responding to (so I'll put it back, below). All of which
> >rather persuades me that Bryan might be right about snake-oil.
> >That's how the free energy scammers behave.
> >
> >>I agree with some of your assumptions.
> >
> >I didn't make any assumptions, I asked some questions and made some 
> comments.
> >
> >>However when it comes to
> >>capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.
> >
> >There's no need to apologise for any of those. You don't know much
> >about this list, do you? Maybe you'd find this discussion
> >interesting. Or maybe not.
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30316/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30354/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30366/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30401/
> >
> >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30405/
> >
> >>If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would
> >>be much lower if we did not "mass produce".
> >
> >You don't say. Now you're making assumptions, (a) about my standard
> >of living, (b) that I give half a damn about it anyway, and (c) that
> >I've never thought about it, and you're wrong on all counts. And
> >you've completely missed the point, which is a rather crucial one. I
> >suggest you try again.
> >
> >>Yes, there are a number
> >>of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.
> >
> >You've got a market in Nebraska for a plant that size? Or are you
> >planning to truck the product all over the place? You're planning to
> >waste a whole lot more petro-diesel fuel doing that? Or, worse,
> >waste biodiesel doing it? And yet manage to deliver a "cheaper"
> >product. Hm. Have you thought any of this out at all?
> >
> >>The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are
> >>sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take
> >>3% of that market.
> >
> >Did you even read my "Great letter"? You sure didn't hoist much of it 
> aboard.
> >
> >>What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to
> >>those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe
> >>me, it takes more time and energy than most think)
> >
> >Sigh... I don't think so.
> >
> >>then we as a
> >>company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best
> >>marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who
> >>want to try.
> >
> >Homebrewers are very aware of safety issues and how to deal with them.
> >
> >Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to?
> >"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you?
> >
> >>I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is
> >>possible economically.
> >
> >And landfills. And out of the livestock feed as well. I think you
> >equate "economically" with a big, centralised industry, in which
> >case no, it isn't possible. Only about 10% of WVO is accounted for
> >in the US (about the same as other industrialised countries). Waste
> >recycling, of just about anything, doesn't work well unless it's
> >decentralised, the more it's decentralised, the closer it gets to
> >source, the better it works. This is one of many advantages
> >local-niche production has over centralised production.
> >
> >>Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look
> >>into building direct oil engines.
> >
> >What's a direct oil engine? You mean an SVO or multifuel engine?
> >Elsbett built one (see archives), it was the basis of all modern DI
> >diesels. It says this at our website, among quite a lot of other
> >things:
> >
> >"... in establishing what works an

Re[2]: [biofuel] Global Warming

[Gustl Steiner-Zehender]

Hallo,

Going to switch quoted portions around for brevity.

BB> Ken Gotberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BB> Hi Keith
...snip...
BB>I “believe” CO2 leads to global warming,
BB> but like any belief, there is no proof that it does.
BB> Best regards,
BB> Ken

Given  that generally speaking human beings are not only in but of the
world, shortsighted, and that self-interest and profit seem to be more
important  than the common welfare of not only our fellow human beings
but of future generations "proof" doesn't matter much.  Science can be
bought  and  paid  for  and  the  distribution  of  true  and  factual
information limited.  Tobacco industry instantly comes to mind.

"Better  safe  than  sorry"  ought to apply but unfortunately I am not
king so my voice doesn't mean much.

See below following quote please.

Wednesday, 04 February, 2004, 12:31:15, you wrote:

BB> Global warming is created by activity of man. Although life's patterns 
BB> can be explained by mathematical concepts to a certain extent with 
BB> our limited senses, theories can also be described and explained by 
BB> man, which come true without scientific analysis, but with belief. The
BB> scientific method of analysis does not take into account the 
BB> interelatedness of all matter, does not describe phenomena, and does
BB> not consider that everything in the universe should be considered 
BB> intelligent whether it be a rock, tree, bug, etc.  We are all brothers and 
BB> sisters, a concept that we all should come to know and have.  
BB> Consider this: Has language detached our spirit from living sustainable
BB> with earth, and thinking outside of the box keeps us outside the circle 
BB> of life.  We are continually trying to explain life to a point of 
destroying 
BB> life's diversity. 
BB> If you believe it to be true then it is true for you, maybe not for earth. 
BB> Do we need proof to believe truth.  How do we connect spiritual 
BB> thought and desire to create physical material patterns. How do we
BB> explain this with the scientific method? 
BB> It becomes meaningless!
BB> Thanx for listening, BB
 
Although  this  may  seem  to  be  purly semantical it is not.  People
confuse  facts  and  truth as well as knowledge and wisdom.  Facts and
knowledge  are generally profane (secular) referents whereas truth and
wisdom are sacred (spiritual) referents.

Facts  change  and  truth  doesn't.   It  was a fact known to everyone
including the highly educated that the earth was flat.  After Columbus
that fact changed.  Facts are demonstrable and objective.

Truth  is entirely subjective. I have compared truth to a headache. If
one  has never had a headache it would be difficult to comprehend what
a  headache  is from any description and one may not even believe that
headaches  exist.  Further,  there  is no medical or scientific way to
detect  a  headache  as  of yet which means there are no "proofs" that
headaches even really exist. (There may be for migranes-my information
may be dated. If, however, one has experienced headaches then when one
hears,  for  example,  "I have a sinus headache." or "I have a migrane
headache."  or  "I  have  a  tension  headache."  then  proofs are not
required. The other knows exactly what the person with the headache is
talking about.

If I remember correctly the scientific method requires the following:
1.  Defining operational terms
2.  Allowing for experimental duplication, repeatability
3.  Empirical observation and induction
4.  Analytic-synthetic thinking
5.  Prediction and allowing for falsification
6.  Scientific public consensus of "truth" (read fact for truth)

(I ask your indulgence on this description of the scientific method as
I am doing this from memory and it was a long time ago.)

Now,  this  is  what a quietist Friend (Quaker) told to a young person
back  in  the early 19th century.  Although this is from the Christian
tradition  it  applies  equally  to  any  mystical apprehension of any
faith.   The  names  and form may change but the substance remains the
same.

Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Hubble Comment

[Greg and April]

To look at something on earth with the Hubble, it would have to look through " 
distorting atmosphere " and the Hubble is not designed to do that.

Greg H.
  - Original Message - 
  From: the_maniacal_engineer 
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 09:54
  Subject: [biofuel] Re: OT: Hubble Comment


  Lockheed built both the hubble and all of the keyhole satellites.
  Lockheed is also very copetent in the area of "rubber mirrors" or
  adaptive optics. They are used in earth based telescopes, so I suspect
  that they may be used in the keyholes. but the hubble probably wouldnt
  need them because there is no distorting atmosphere out there.

  --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "kirkmcloren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  > 
  > I don't think it is the focus. The limiting factor is atmospheric 
  > refraction and transient phenomena. Imaging requires software and 
  > multiple shots.
  > 
  > 
  > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  > wrote:
  > > It is my understanding that due to the construction, of Hubble, 
  > that it can not get a sharp focus on something as close as the 
  > surface of the earth, and without the sharp focus, it's worse than 
  > the standard military intelligence birds.
  > > 
  > > Greg H.
  > >   - Original Message - 
  > >   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  > >   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
  > >   Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 00:10
  > >   Subject: Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment
  > > 
  > > 
  > >   2.  Doesn't the military turn hubble around and check out things 
  > on 
  > >   earth when it wants to?
  > >   Regards
  > >   Fred
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

  Biofuels list archives:
  http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

  Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
  To unsubscribe, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
  ADVERTISEMENT
 
   
   


--
  Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
  
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] WVO heater for shop

[Friedrich Friesinger]

Hi Northlandwood,
in my Woodshop i press all Sawdust and Shavings into Briquettes,they are 
stonehard and only held by Pressure!
The moistercontent of the Material shoult not exeed 15%
The Press is mounted right under the Dustcollector and works automaticly,so i 
have no accumulation of explosive Sawdust
if you need moore info dont hesitate to contact me
Fritz
  - Original Message - 
  From: northlandwood 
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:54 AM
  Subject: [biofuel] WVO heater for shop


  I am a newbie to this group and I have a question.
  I am looking to build a heater for my shop. 
  I would like to use WVO.
  Does anyone have a good design?

  Also,(while I'm here)I have a large supply of sawdust.
  I am looking to burn sawdust in my fireplace or build a
  burner for sawdust.  Anyone have a good design or method.

  I was thinking of mixing the sawdust with WVO and packing it 
  into small "logs" or chips and then burning them in the fireplace, 
  but this takes time and makes a mess. 

  Anyway.thought I would throw this out there.

  Thank you for your time.




  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

  Biofuels list archives:
  http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

  Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
  To unsubscribe, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



--
  Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
  
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Great letter Keith - was: I am building a biodieselPlant in Nebraska USA

[Keith Addison]

It's been a week now and no response from Greg Walburn, founder, 
Biodiesel of America Inc., who asked for "only 3,000 investors who 
want to invest $1000 dollars" in his commercial biodiesel plant (see 
below).

I asked him this, twice:

>>Greg, when exactly did you found (find?) Biodiesel of America Inc.? 
>>And is it indeed duly Inc.'d, fully incorporated? Please provide 
>>some details.

>I'll ask you again: is your Biodiesel of America Inc. something that 
>exists at all, even if only on paper? When was it founded? Please 
>provide details.

Also this:

>Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to? 
>"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you?

Seems to me if he had a reply we'd have heard it by now, if not 
immediately the first time. His scheme does seem rather undeveloped, 
to put it kindly. I'd suggest that 3,000 of our 2,153 members should 
perhaps not hasten to beat a path to his door in order to press a 
thousand dollars into his outstretched palm.

Best wishes

Keith


>Yes Greg, that's all very well, except that it's not, and except 
>that you didn't answer the questions, and snipped the "Great letter" 
>you're responding to (so I'll put it back, below). All of which 
>rather persuades me that Bryan might be right about snake-oil. 
>That's how the free energy scammers behave.
>
>>I agree with some of your assumptions.
>
>I didn't make any assumptions, I asked some questions and made some comments.
>
>>However when it comes to
>>capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize.
>
>There's no need to apologise for any of those. You don't know much 
>about this list, do you? Maybe you'd find this discussion 
>interesting. Or maybe not.
>
>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30316/
>
>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30354/
>
>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30366/
>
>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30401/
>
>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30405/
>
>>If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would
>>be much lower if we did not "mass produce".
>
>You don't say. Now you're making assumptions, (a) about my standard 
>of living, (b) that I give half a damn about it anyway, and (c) that 
>I've never thought about it, and you're wrong on all counts. And 
>you've completely missed the point, which is a rather crucial one. I 
>suggest you try again.
>
>>Yes, there are a number
>>of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska.
>
>You've got a market in Nebraska for a plant that size? Or are you 
>planning to truck the product all over the place? You're planning to 
>waste a whole lot more petro-diesel fuel doing that? Or, worse, 
>waste biodiesel doing it? And yet manage to deliver a "cheaper" 
>product. Hm. Have you thought any of this out at all?
>
>>The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE.  Billions of gallons of gas are
>>sold in this country.   It will take a long long time to even take
>>3% of that market.
>
>Did you even read my "Great letter"? You sure didn't hoist much of it aboard.
>
>>What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to
>>those who want to use it.   If you want to make your own, (believe
>>me, it takes more time and energy than most think)
>
>Sigh... I don't think so.
>
>>then we as a
>>company will help you do that.  Why?  Because users are OUR best
>>marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who
>>want to try.
>
>Homebrewers are very aware of safety issues and how to deal with them.
>
>Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to? 
>"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you?
>
>>I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is
>>possible economically.
>
>And landfills. And out of the livestock feed as well. I think you 
>equate "economically" with a big, centralised industry, in which 
>case no, it isn't possible. Only about 10% of WVO is accounted for 
>in the US (about the same as other industrialised countries). Waste 
>recycling, of just about anything, doesn't work well unless it's 
>decentralised, the more it's decentralised, the closer it gets to 
>source, the better it works. This is one of many advantages 
>local-niche production has over centralised production.
>
>>Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look
>>into building direct oil engines.
>
>What's a direct oil engine? You mean an SVO or multifuel engine? 
>Elsbett built one (see archives), it was the basis of all modern DI 
>diesels. It says this at our website, among quite a lot of other 
>things:
>
>"... in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are 
>likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be 
>heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, 
>that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, 
>supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, 
>biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any 
>fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'e

Re: [biofuel] power content of bio diesel

[Appal Energy]

Steve,

You need to take an accounting of your friends and their sources.

The answer to your question is no. More along the lines of a 3% power loss.
But the emissions reductions in PAHs, particulates, CO and SOx are enormous,
not to mention the carbon neutrality or potential for near carbon neutrality
of the fuel.

A 3% loss in power balanced against emissions gains? I guess it all depends
upon who's conducting the cost/benefit analyisis and their functioning
principles as to whether or not it is "worth it." Some businesses and
individuals calculate externalities as a cost.

Unfortunately many don't, nor do they care.

Todd Swearingen

- Original Message - 
From: "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:36 AM
Subject: [biofuel] power content of bio diesel


> Was talking to a friend the other day about diesel vs biodiesel...
>
> Was told that bio diesel only had 70% of the power output of petroleum
> based diesel... is this true?
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE

[Keith Addison]

Mark McElvy wrote:

>I also find all the snide, back biting comments rather offensive as well. I
>will never understand why grown, supposedly educated adults have to talk
>to/about each other that way.

Hm. Bit of a broad brush. I don't see a lot of snide, back biting 
comments. There are plenty of tussles here, but for the most part 
they concern serious differences over serious issues, not just petty 
personal squabbles (though you find plenty of that elsewhere in the 
sometimes less than wonderful world of online biofuels discussions). 
Of course if you don't understand the issues or why they're deemed 
serious and worth arguing over you might see it that way. Perhaps 
you'd care to be a bit more specific? Or is this aimed at the list in 
general? In which case you should definitely be more specific.

Keith


>  _
>
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:13 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE
>
>
>
>A note about language. Please keep it nice and squeaky-clean. English
>is a huge and rich language with many different ways of saying
>things, there's absolutely no need to use foul, obscene, lewd,
>profane or blasphemous language, so please don't. In fact never mind
>the "please", JUST DON'T DO IT. There are list members here from all
>over the world and every culture, and many of them find it offensive.
>Others might find that petty or trivial, but they don't, and we must
>respect it.
>
>Thankyou.
>
>Keith Addison
>List owner


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Global Warming

[Keith Addison]

>Hi Keith
>
>I was afraid this was going to happen! Chaos is not a
>scientific view rather a proven mathematical
>(mathematics is stronger than scientific æòheoriesç§
>fact about the way nonlinear dynamical systems behave
>in the real world.  Laminar flow to turbulence is a
>good example.  Behavior cannot be predicted no matter
>how much info is available and the size of the
>computer.  I æàelieveçžCO2 leads to global warming,
>but like any belief, there is no proof that it does.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ken

Hi Ken

I didn't misunderstand you, nor not see your point. I don't think you 
can extrapolate from the unpredictable real-world behaviour of a 
nonlinear dynamic system such as climate to the role in global 
warming of CO2 being unprovable. I'd say there's plenty of proof that 
CO2 leads to global warming - note "leads to", to say it "causes" 
global warming would be to ignore the complex interactions at play. 
Nor does that say what happens after that, whether more global 
warming or, indeed, chaos, tipping us into something perhaps quite 
different and probably nastier.

I think this is a defeatist view anyway, chaos theory often leads to 
such a view - we can't learn anything useful about something with so 
many interacting variables, so let's just forget it. Butterflies 
flapping their troublesome wings in the Amazon jungle 
notwithstanding, there's a great deal that can be learned, and bigger 
computers sure do help. Even with the most complex nonlinear dynamic 
systems, of which climate is obviously one, much can be learnt about 
the variables at play and how they interact. That might not lead 
directly or soon to clearcut predictions such as would satisfy, or 
rather defeat, the Ostrich school of thought (?), but that's not the 
only aim.

The temptation of this approach is to conclude that with so many 
factors to be considered, any single factor (such as human effects on 
atmospheric CO2 levels) is probably insignificant. By the same 
measure you might say that the more interacting factors there are, 
the more important each of them may be: the balance of such a complex 
system depends on all the various factors, and could potentially be 
upset by knock-on effects started (caused, led to) by seemingly tiny 
changes in an apparently minor factor. (Hence the butterfly.) After 
all, the (only?) rule of ecology is that everything is connected to 
everything else. Similarly, your "chaos" argument could be used 
against the study of ecology, which is also being called upon to make 
predictions, eg the recent revelations of the unexpectedly high 
number of species which will probably face extinction due to global 
warming.

Anyway, when the balance of complex systems is being considered, it 
may not make such sense to think of single causes or even major 
causes, just causes, and few of the scientists involved are any 
longer in doubt that human-caused CO2 emissions are indeed a cause.

On the other hand, I wrote this here about three years ago:

>Looking at it another way, even if it turns out that human-caused 
>CO2 emissions have nothing or vanishingly little to do with climate 
>and that there is no global warming, that it's all a 
>myth/mistake/communist propaganda or whatever, moves to cut CO2 
>emissions are generally beneficial. Replace dinodiesel with 
>biodiesel, for instance, and you're cutting GG emissions, yes, but 
>you're also reducing the cancer risk by more than 90%. Global 
>warming or not, we - the industrialised countries and especially the 
>US - are much too profligate with energy, especially fossil-fuel 
>energy. Regardless of emissions, it's a non-renewable resource and 
>we're wasting it. The climate change issue is doing more than 
>anything else to counter that. Energy efficiency is a general good, 
>and there's a hell of a lot of room for improvement. There are 
>spin-offs too. Someone who pays attention to energy efficiency and 
>avoids fossil fuels where possible will almost certainly leave a 
>generally smaller eco-footprint, and might get active in other areas 
>as well, such as Kirk's concern for water quality. Same goes for all 
>the scientific attention being focused on the climate, and thus on 
>the biosphere and the environment and our role in it... It's about 
>time science got involved in a detailed, integrated examination of 
>the biosystem, which is what's happening now. Maybe only climate 
>change as the header would serve to make it integrated enough to 
>counter science's great love of splintering itself in the name of 
>specialisation, learning more and more about less and less. This 
>huge climate-change study could turn out to be the most important 
>thing they've ever done, whatever the results for the global warming 
>case.

There's another kind of real-world mathematics being brought to bear 
on the probabilities of catastrophic climate-change, that of the 
actuaries who work for the insurance industry.

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/27311/1

ht

Re: [biofuel] Precautions when burning glycerin/swadust logs?

[Keith Addison]

Kenneth Kron wrote:

>Are there any precautions one should bear in mind when burning 
>glycerin/sawdust or glycerin/shreded paper logs?  I know about the 
>warnings against burning glycerin at low temperature and I'm just 
>wondering why they don't seem to apply to glycerin/swadust logs?

Why do you think it doesn't apply to glycerine-sawdust "logs"? Did 
you not visit the link I provided?

Burning glycerine
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#burn

It says: "We start the fire with wood to get the burning chamber to a 
high temperature before adding the milk-carton 'logs'."

Keith


>tnx
>
>On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:37:38 +0900, Keith Addison 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>Also,(while I'm here)I have a large supply of sawdust.
>>>I am looking to burn sawdust in my fireplace or build a
>>>burner for sawdust.  Anyone have a good design or method.
>>>
>>>I was thinking of mixing the sawdust with WVO and packing it
>>>into small "logs" or chips and then burning them in the fireplace,
>>>but this takes time and makes a mess.
>>
>>That works really well if you use the glycerine by-product from
>>making biodiesel instead of WVO and pack it into milk cartons, we use
>>those all the time here. Burns very hot, and for a long time.
>>
>
>--
>Kenneth Kron
>Founder, Bay Area Biofuel and Organic Power
>http://bayareabiofuel.com/


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Global Warming

[Ben Bahr]

Global warming is created by activity of man. Although life's patterns 
can be explained by mathematical concepts to a certain extent with 
our limited senses, theories can also be described and explained by 
man, which come true without scientific analysis, but with belief. The
scientific method of analysis does not take into account the 
interelatedness of all matter, does not describe phenomena, and does
not consider that everything in the universe should be considered 
intelligent whether it be a rock, tree, bug, etc.  We are all brothers and 
sisters, a concept that we all should come to know and have.  
Consider this: Has language detached our spirit from living sustainable
with earth, and thinking outside of the box keeps us outside the circle 
of life.  We are continually trying to explain life to a point of destroying 
life's diversity. 
If you believe it to be true then it is true for you, maybe not for earth. 
Do we need proof to believe truth.  How do we connect spiritual 
thought and desire to create physical material patterns. How do we
explain this with the scientific method? 
It becomes meaningless!
Thanx for listening, BB
 
Ken Gotberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Keith

I was afraid this was going to happen! Chaos is not a
scientific view rather a proven mathematical
(mathematics is stronger than scientific “theories”)
fact about the way nonlinear dynamical systems behave
in the real world. Laminar flow to turbulence is a
good example. Behavior cannot be predicted no matter
how much info is available and the size of the
computer. I “believe” CO2 leads to global warming,
but like any belief, there is no proof that it does.

Best regards,

Ken


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 



-
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Re: OT: Hubble Comment

[the_maniacal_engineer]

Lockheed built both the hubble and all of the keyhole 
satellites.
Lockheed is also very copetent in the area of "rubber mirrors" or
adaptive optics. They are used in earth based telescopes, so I suspect
that they may be used in the keyholes. but the hubble probably wouldnt
need them because there is no distorting atmosphere out there.

--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "kirkmcloren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I don't think it is the focus. The limiting factor is atmospheric 
> refraction and transient phenomena. Imaging requires software and 
> multiple shots.
> 
> 
> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > It is my understanding that due to the construction, of Hubble, 
> that it can not get a sharp focus on something as close as the 
> surface of the earth, and without the sharp focus, it's worse than 
> the standard military intelligence birds.
> > 
> > Greg H.
> >   - Original Message - 
> >   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 00:10
> >   Subject: Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment
> > 
> > 
> >   2.  Doesn't the military turn hubble around and check out things 
> on 
> >   earth when it wants to?
> >   Regards
> >   Fred
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Precautions when burning glycerin/swadust logs?

[Kenneth Kron]

Are there any precautions one should bear in mind when burning 
glycerin/sawdust or glycerin/shreded paper logs?  I know about the 
warnings against burning glycerin at low temperature and I'm just 
wondering why they don't seem to apply to glycerin/swadust logs?

tnx

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:37:38 +0900, Keith Addison 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Also,(while I'm here)I have a large supply of sawdust.
>> I am looking to burn sawdust in my fireplace or build a
>> burner for sawdust.  Anyone have a good design or method.
>>
>> I was thinking of mixing the sawdust with WVO and packing it
>> into small "logs" or chips and then burning them in the fireplace,
>> but this takes time and makes a mess.
>
> That works really well if you use the glycerine by-product from
> making biodiesel instead of WVO and pack it into milk cartons, we use
> those all the time here. Burns very hot, and for a long time.
>

-- 
Kenneth Kron
Founder, Bay Area Biofuel and Organic Power
http://bayareabiofuel.com/


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] power content of bio diesel

[Ben Bahr]

Steve,
Not true, "Biodiesel is far Superior". Biodiesel has a higher cetane number and 
burns cooler, reducing NOx emissions.
Although purity depends on using pure chemicals in processing. Biodiesel is 
much cleaner than fossil-fuel diesel and can be used in any diesel engine with 
no modifications and the engine will last longer.
Biodiesel fuel burns 75% cleaner than conventional diesel fuel made from fossil 
fuels.
Please go to http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html 
This site provides excellent info on biodiesel!

Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Was talking to a friend the other day about diesel vs biodiesel...

Was told that bio diesel only had 70% of the power output of petroleum
based diesel... is this true?




Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



-
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



-
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

RE: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE

[Mark McElvy]

I also find all the snide, back biting comments rather offensive as well. I
will never understand why grown, supposedly educated adults have to talk
to/about each other that way.

 

  _  

From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:13 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE

 

A note about language. Please keep it nice and squeaky-clean. English 
is a huge and rich language with many different ways of saying 
things, there's absolutely no need to use foul, obscene, lewd, 
profane or blasphemous language, so please don't. In fact never mind 
the "please", JUST DON'T DO IT. There are list members here from all 
over the world and every culture, and many of them find it offensive. 
Others might find that petty or trivial, but they don't, and we must 
respect it.

Thankyou.

Keith Addison
List owner


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
 

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT
 
 click here


 
 

 

  _  

Yahoo! Groups Links

*   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
 
  
*   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
*   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
 . 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[murdoch]

Forgot something.

This supposed goal of a deficit-cut, amidst huge *claimed* tax cuts (which are a
farce because those monies will have to be paid off at some point, so they
arguably amount to a concommittant tax *increase* or shift onto future taxpayers
including some not yet conceived), is reminiscent, in my view, of President
Reagan's table-thumping call for "Paying Down the Debt" even as his policies
took us in the opposite direction.  

When President Reagan made in one of his speeches this claim to be concerned
about "Paying Down The Debt" (I think he proposed a $100 Billion Down-Payment,
specifically) then I just couldn't do the math in my head, and I had to peg his
statement as sheer disingenuous politics.  Furthermore, he had run in part, I
think, in 1979-1980, critical of President Carter for having run some sort of
deficit.  So, then he had to turn around and smooth over the rationale and
consequences of his massive massive deficits.  So, he just sort of lied and
claimed to be working-on-it with his "Paying Down" talk.

Ok, politicians, and people desperately in debt, lie on National Political
Stages.  I'm shocked I tell you, but let us take this conclusion and hypothesis
and go with it for a moment.  Now, here we are 20 years later, and I'm wondering
if this particular lie could be put to rest, because some of us just aren't
buying it.  It's too much of an insult, and for some of us was even back then.

>http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9878
>
>Playing With Our Money
>
>David Sirota, Christy Harvey and Judd Legum are with the Center for 
>American Progress, a nonpartisan research and educational institute.
>
>In what may be the most deceitful budget submission in memory, 
>President Bush claims that the United States can continue operations 
>in Iraq and Afghanistan, fund a trillion-dollar tax cut, increase 
>spending on defense, homeland security and counterterrorism, and 
>launch a manned mission to Mars, while cutting the $521 billion 
>deficit in half over the next five years. 

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Federal Grants for Biofuels

[Bryan Brah]

Hey all!

 

I was doing a little surfing and came across this nugget.  The U.S.
government gives away billions of dollars every year, some of which is
available for good reasons.  

 

There is a program in which the Feds will pay up to $450M over three
years to reimburse biofuels producers for a percentage of their
feedstock expenses. 

 

Regards,

 

-BRAH

 

 

 

 

Here is a link for the Catalog of Federal Domestic Assistance:  

 

http://12.46.245.173/cfda/cfda.html  

 

Here is the link for the actual grant:

 

http://12.46.245.173/pls/portal30/SYSTEM.PROGRAM_TEXT_RPT.SHOW?p_arg_nam
es=prog_nbr&p_arg_values=10.078

 

And here is the text of the grant:

 

 

10.078 BIOENERGY PROGRAM

 

FEDERAL AGENCY

FARM SERVICE AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 

 

AUTHORIZATION

Title IX, Section 9010, Farm Security and Rural Investment Act of 2002
and Section 5(e) of the CCC Charter Act, 15 U.S.C. 714c. 

 

OBJECTIVES

The goals of the Bioenergy Program are to encourage increased purchases
of eligible commodities for the purpose of expanding production of such
bioenergy and support new production capacity for such bioenergy. 

 

TYPES OF ASSISTANCE

Direct Payments for Specified Use. 

 

USES AND USE RESTRICTIONS

Bioenergy producers may increase their purchases of eligible commodities
as compared to the previous fiscal year purchases and convert that
commodity into increased commercial fuel grade ethanol and biodiesel
production as compared to previous fiscal year ethanol and biodiesel
production. The Program defines eligible commodities as barley, corn,
grain sorghum, oats, rice, wheat, soybeans, sunflower seed, canola,
crambe, rapeseed, safflower, sesame seed, flaxseed, mustard seed, and
cellulosic crops, such as switchgrass and short rotation trees, grown on
farms, for the purpose of producing ethanol and/or biodiesel or any
other commodity or commodity by-product as determined and announced by
CCC used in ethanol and biodiesel production which is produced in the
United States and its territories. 

 

ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS

 

Applicant Eligibility

All bioenergy producers are eligible to participate in the program. To
participate, ethanol producers must provide USDA with evidence of
increased production of bioenergy and increased purchase and utilization
of agricultural commodities related to that increased production.
Biodiesel producers must provide evidence of production and purchase and
utilization of agricultural commodities related to that production. 

 

Beneficiary Eligibility

Bioenergy producers. 

 

Credentials/Documentation

USDA will collect information from bioenergy producers that request
payments under the Bioenergy Program as the Secretary may require to
ensure that benefits are paid only to eligible bioenergy producers for
eligible commodities. Bioenergy producers seeking program payments will
have to meet minimum requirements by providing information concerning
the production of bioenergy. Applicants must certify that they will
abide by the Bioenergy Program Agreement's provisions. This program is
excluded from coverage under OMB Circular No. A-87. 

 

APPLICATION AND AWARD PROCESS

 

Preapplication Coordination

There is no preapplication coordination related to this program. This
program is excluded from coverage under E.O. 12372. 

 

Application Procedure

The Bioenergy Program sign-up period is from August 1 through August 31,
or as announced. To participate in the program, producers must complete
a Bioenergy Program Agreement, Form CCC 850 and Bioenergy Program Annual
Production Information, Form CCC-850 Supplement. 

 

Award Procedure

None. 

 

Deadlines

Bioenergy producers who expect to have eligible production at any time
during a FY must enroll in the program during or before the applicable
FY's sign-up period. For example, a producer with a new plant that is
expected to become operational in July 2003 must enroll that plant in
the program during FY 2003's sign-up period to be eligible to receive
program payments on that new production during 2003. 

 

Range of Approval/Disapproval Time

1 to 30 days. 

 

Appeals

Any participant who is subject to an adverse determination may appeal
the determination by filing a written request with the Deputy
Administrator at the following address: Deputy Administrator, Commodity
Operations, Farm Service Agency, United States Department of
Agriculture, STOP 0550, 1400 Independence Avenue, SW., Washington, DC
20250-0550. To receive consideration, the participant must file the
appeal within 30 days after written notice of the decision, which is the
subject of the appeal, is mailed or otherwise made available to the
participant. An appeal shall be considered to have been filed when
personally delivered in writing to the Deputy Administrator or when the
properly addressed request, postage paid, is postmarked. The Deputy
Administrator may accept and act upon an appeal even though it is not
timely filed if, in the judgemen

Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Alert

[esbuck]

The Department of Defense is wassting money worrying about climate change.  
That's not their mission.  We have a new Department of Homeland Security to 
second-guess God.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] State owned biofuel companies

[murdoch]

I agree with your raising of the question-issue as an 
interesting one.  In
theory I am against any Government ownership of any enterprises, but rather I
think it's their job to set standards and laws so that enterprises can function
and trade fairly.  In reality, countries without this polital philosophy
approach may benefit (I don't know) from a Government involvement in Biofuel
Enterprises.  I doubt it, but I'm trying to keep some open mind to your
question.  

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 01:29:28 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>I wonder if anyone has objections to State owned
>biofuel companies?  The European Union has a 5%
>biofuel legislation and it seems to me that countries
>like Indonesia/Malaysia are in a position to produce
>5% biodiesel blends at low relative cost to other
>producers.  State owned oil companies have the
>wherewithal to make this happen on a large scale and
>can assure quality with long-term sovereign
>guarantees.  Existing refineries can add FAME to spec
>and ship in large quantities using current logistics
>channels.  Something like this:
>
>1. Crude -> diesel
>2. Methane -> methanol
>3. Fruit palm -> 2/3 FAME, 1/3 monoglycerides,
>carotenes and other isolates. (Maybe something useful
>can be made from the pulp as well.  The Bandung
>Institute of Technology came up with a method of
>making textiles from pineapple fibers that could
>perhaps be applied to fruit palm as well?)
>
>1 and 2 are in place while 3 would take clearing
>forests (in Indonesia) for fruit palm plantations to
>supply FAME above current edible oil production for
>human consumption and to meet existing contracts.  The
>timber will wind up in China and won’t be burned.  Do
>environmentalists object to forest-to-plantation
>conversion?
>
>This isn’t being talked about around here as far as I
>know, but it could happen in the not too distant
>future.  Ethanol (from rice straw?)/gasoline mixes may
>also work
>
>Is anyone vehemently opposed to this and why?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ken
>
>
>__
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
>http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[murdoch]

>http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9878
>
>Playing With Our Money
>
>David Sirota, Christy Harvey and Judd Legum are with the Center for 
>American Progress, a nonpartisan research and educational institute.
>
>In what may be the most deceitful budget submission in memory, 
>President Bush claims that the United States can continue operations 
>in Iraq and Afghanistan, fund a trillion-dollar tax cut, increase 
>spending on defense, homeland security and counterterrorism, and 
>launch a manned mission to Mars, while cutting the $521 billion 
>deficit in half over the next five years.

1.  Again, to point up something I said in another thread, *if* the rationale
for some of this is "national security" which subsumes some other fields,
military, "economic" security, etc., then I wonder at what point some budget
scholars will hold up their hands and say that the nation can and should be made
more secure by practicing sound financial planning on the part of the government
(as so many citizens try to do in their own households).

2.  This entire "deficits don't matter" philosophy, recently revealed in Former
Treasury Secretary O'Neill's book as the explicitly-stated view of Vice
President Cheney (not quite sure of the wording VP Cheney used), is neither new,
nor consistent with any sort of true Conservative approach to anything, but is
apparently widely held by Conservatives.  

How can "Conservatism" mean anything if it does not include an approach to
"conserving" government funds rather than spending them on the poor, as the
Conservatives are wont to characterize the "Liberals" as trying to do with the
Government monies?  I guess some of them would argue that serious Political
Philosophy must not be bogged down by sixth-grade-level games of linguistics and
rhetoric if international quandries are to be solved.  In any event, I do not
see this cavalier attitude toward Government Fund Dispensation as consistent
with what I understood "Conservatism" to be, but perhaps I am wrong on a number
of points.

In any case, this "deficits don't matter" philosophy was first voiced to me by a
Conservative about ten years ago, and I was quite astonished.  He was just some
guy I knew who listened (in my view) to too much Rush Limbaugh, but in
retrospect I'm glad he turned me on to what apparently has been a major premise
of some Conservative Intellectuals.  In his view, he went on to say, the Debt
would be wiped out some day when the governemnt would just decree it void and
print money to cover it, or something.  Let me stress that this was *his* view,
not mine, and apparently was also the view of some (but I don't know how many)
other Conservatives.

As I read this story, I started thinking about the Roman Empire, in the 4th and
5th Century AD, around the time of Atilla, and perhaps the Goths, as these have
been much on the History Channel lately.  And I wondered if we are off
fending-off some enemies in the distances while at home we are in some sort of
decline.

I think or hope the decline is reversible (though less so with each damaging
Presidential decree).


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Re: OT: Hubble Comment

[kirkmcloren]

I don't think it is the focus. The limiting factor is atmospheric 
refraction and transient phenomena. Imaging requires software and 
multiple shots.


--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> It is my understanding that due to the construction, of Hubble, 
that it can not get a sharp focus on something as close as the 
surface of the earth, and without the sharp focus, it's worse than 
the standard military intelligence birds.
> 
> Greg H.
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 00:10
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment
> 
> 
>   2.  Doesn't the military turn hubble around and check out things 
on 
>   earth when it wants to?
>   Regards
>   Fred
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] test batch

[Keith Addison]

>Hi everyone...i was just wondering how long you have to let it sit
>after  its completed the process and been transfered to a new container

Hi, and welcome

You mean after processing and before washing? 24 hours, some people 
say longer is better, which it probably is, others say you should 
have the stuff in your tank within 12 hours of starting the process 
and that washed biodiesel's bad for your car anyway, which is 
ridiculous nonsense but they say it anyway.

Let it settle for 24 hours or more, then separate the glycerine 
by-product (at the bottom) and wash the biodiesel (on top), either in 
the processor or (much better) in a separate wash-tank.

regards

Keith


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[Greg and April]

It is my understanding that due to the construction, of Hubble, that it can not 
get a sharp focus on something as close as the surface of the earth, and 
without the sharp focus, it's worse than the standard military intelligence 
birds.

Greg H.
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 00:10
  Subject: Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment


  2.  Doesn't the military turn hubble around and check out things on 
  earth when it wants to?
  Regards
  Fred



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] power content of bio diesel

[Steve]

Was talking to a friend the other day about diesel vs 
biodiesel...

Was told that bio diesel only had 70% of the power output of petroleum
based diesel... is this true?



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] WVO heater for shop

[Keith Addison]

Hi, welcome

>I am a newbie to this group and I have a question.
>I am looking to build a heater for my shop.
>I would like to use WVO.
>Does anyone have a good design?

Here's one, very popular:

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html
Mother Earth News Waste Oil Heater

>Also,(while I'm here)I have a large supply of sawdust.
>I am looking to burn sawdust in my fireplace or build a
>burner for sawdust.  Anyone have a good design or method.
>
>I was thinking of mixing the sawdust with WVO and packing it
>into small "logs" or chips and then burning them in the fireplace,
>but this takes time and makes a mess.

That works really well if you use the glycerine by-product from 
making biodiesel instead of WVO and pack it into milk cartons, we use 
those all the time here. Burns very hot, and for a long time.

Burning glycerine
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#burn

Best wishes

Keith



>Anyway.thought I would throw this out there.
>
>Thank you for your time.


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Global Warming

[Ken Gotberg]

Hi Keith

I was afraid this was going to happen! Chaos is not a
scientific view rather a proven mathematical
(mathematics is stronger than scientific “theories”)
fact about the way nonlinear dynamical systems behave
in the real world.  Laminar flow to turbulence is a
good example.  Behavior cannot be predicted no matter
how much info is available and the size of the
computer.  I “believe” CO2 leads to global warming,
but like any belief, there is no proof that it does.

Best regards,

Ken


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Pump for fumeless processor

[Keith Addison]

>I am looking at building a fumeless processor from a 200 litre hot
>water cylinder but need a pump.
>I do not wish to spend hundreds $ on a new pump.
>Can anyone tell me of an ideal pump to use?
>PeterR
>Canberra OZ

Hello Peter

Picture and details of a commonly used pump here:

The $150 Fumeless Processor
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html

"The cheap Harbor Freight clear water pump has a TEFC (totally 
enclosed fan cooled) motor which is the so-called "explosion-proof" 
motor design. It only costs $35, and sometimes less."

You can get them here:

Harbor Freight Tools -- 1" Clear Water Pump -- Item 1479-1VGA
http://www.harborfreight.com/

Northern Tools -- Cast Iron 1in. Clear Water Pump, Model# 109955
(Warning -- very BAD at dealing with international orders!)
http://www.northerntool.com/

Northern Tool & Equipment Co. (UK) Ltd. -- 1" Clear Water Pump, Item 
No. 109955E
http://www.northerntooluk.com/

All the same pump, made in China. We use one of these pumps, we 
imported it so we could use it for comparison with locally available 
pumps here in Japan. It took a long time and lots of trouble to get 
it from Northern Tools, but the price is reasonable and it works very 
well.

If you decide to get one I'd suggest asking a friend in the US to get 
it for you and ship it to you in Oz rather than trying to buy online 
from abroad from either of those companies.

Best

Keith


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Global Warming

[Keith Addison]

>Global Warming
>
>I donç” intend to be a heretic and only want to
>mention that the Earthç“ climate follows a strange
>attractor and there are mathematical reasons, verified
>by experiment, why itç“ not possible to know what will
>happen to global temperature with the addition of CO2.
> The temp may go up, go down, or remain about the
>same.  Hereç“ a readable introduction to the subject
>from Harvard Science Review
>
>Chaos All Around
>
>http://hcs.harvard.edu/~hsr/pdfswinter2003/young29-32.pdf
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ken

Hello Ken

I'm sure you'll be able to find equally scientific views also duly 
verified by experiment that claim just the opposite, and yet others 
that claim something different to both. CO2 is not the only factor at 
work, and I don't think anyone claims it is, or at least not anybody 
to be taken half-seriously.

What it all boils down to (or perhaps up to) is a clash between two 
incompatible approaches. One is the old way, soon to follow the 
dinosaurs, that maintains that "There's no proof that..." so let's 
get on with business-as-usual, while increasing the PR budget by 10% 
to ensure that anything that might begin to look like proof gets 
discredited, no matter how, chuck some more money at the Wise Use 
think-tanks so spin can continue to accomplish for public opinion 
what reason can't, and chuck a bit more at the FCC lobbyists to help 
that along a bit too, and maybe appoint a new Risk Assessment manager 
to make sure all risks are taken by others, though the causes may be 
ours, and that none of it hits the bottom line, since that's all that 
really counts.

The other way is the Precautionary Principle.

If there was ever a case for the Precautionary Principle and against 
the Way of the Ostrich, climate-change has to be it.

Did you see this, by the way?

Global effort to plot climate change
http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?e89222694&e=6347
Nature

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns4161
Distributed climate model aims for errors
10:28 12 September 03

Here's a previous message about a view that's still being taken 
seriously, that rising O2 levels will lead to a sudden and 
catastrophic new Ice Age - just the sort of thing the Pentagon seems 
to be waxing anxious about:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/28233/

Ahh... what the hell - pollution, slavery, overpopulation, hunger and 
poverty, war, death and disaster, all such cheerful stuff... Here's a 
message from the future, we could use a bit of scathe and a giggle I 
reckon.

I wrote this 1990 in a fit of impatience - I was running an 
environmental publishing agency out of London and doing a job for a 
big organics group that kept humming and hahing and making me miss 
their deadlines. Now it seems strangely prophetic. If you think it's 
completely mad, well, so do I, but then, so is this:

Deadly Fast-Food Superbug Kills One, Sickens Hundreds Of Teens
Teenagers are being hit by a fast-food salmonella superbug that has 
already killed one victim and made 332 others ill. - The Times, 
London, 9 September, 2000

Man dies from 'fast food bug'
Government experts are investigating an outbreak of a fast-food 
superbug which has claimed one life and made hundreds ill. The 
outbreak is being caused by a strain of salmonella that is resistant 
to all commonly used antibiotics. Most of those affected have been 
teenagers and young adults, which has led doctors to believe that it 
may be caused by fast food. - BBC, London, 11 September, 2000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_92/920464.stm

Type 2 Diabetes Epidemic In Children Coming
An increasing number of American children are being diagnosed with 
type 2 diabetes. The rise in type 2 diabetes cases in young people 
has led experts to label the disease an emerging epidemic. Until 
recently, the disorder was known as adult-onset diabetes because it 
occurred mostly in men and women over age 50. - Reuters Health, New 
York, 13 September, 2000

So.


Harrods to sell elixir-of-life

ORGANIC lemmingsmilk yoghurt is soon to be made available in London's 
Knightsbridge. The preserve of the exceedingly wealthy, this rare and 
exotic product has legendary health benefits bestowed by the unique 
blend of micro-organisms in the yoghurt culture, which encourage a 
perfect balance of the vital intestinal flora in humans.

The Hong Kong premier, Chairperson Strangelove Chang, whose genetic 
fingerprints have now established as fact his claim to be the early 
Qing Dynasty Emperor Ching Kuo-xiu (1652-), has revealed that his 
extraordinary longevity is due to his thrice-daily dose of powdered 
Huang Shan ginseng root with a lemming yoghurt milkshake mixed with 
an ounce of ground panda-liver and a tot of rum.

This has been substantiated by reports that the mysterious Mutual 
Cooperation Agreement between the People's Republics of Hong Kong and 
Norway is in fact underpinned by a devious arrangement that transfers 
enormous quantities of counterfeit designer 

[biofuel] EERE Network News -- 02/04/04

[EERE Network News]

 

A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) 
Office of Energy Efficiency and 
Renewable Energy (EERE).

February 04, 2004

<#news>News and Events

<#6623>President's Budget Retains Funds for Energy Efficiency, Renewable Energy
<#6624>DOE Budget Proposal Boosts Hydrogen Fuel Initiative Funding
<#6625>2005 Budget Includes Tax Credits for Renewables and Energy Efficiency
<#6622>DOE and States to Jointly Fund 13 Energy Efficiency Projects
<#6626>Twelve States Form Alliance to Leverage Clean Energy Funds
<#6621>EnergySmart Schools Program Earns School Board Association Endorsement

<#energy>Energy Connections

Voluntary U.S. Greenhouse Gas Reductions Increased in 2002



News and Events

President's Budget Retains Funds for Energy Efficiency, Renewable Energy

 
The President's Cabinet received a budget briefing on Monday morning.
Credit: Eric Draper, White House

President Bush released his proposed federal budget for fiscal year 
(FY) 2005 on Monday. The proposed budget increases defense spending 
by 7 percent and homeland security spending by nearly 10 percent, 
while holding the growth in all other spending to 0.5 percent. In 
light of the tight fiscal constraints, DOE's Office of Energy 
Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE) faired well: the FY 2005 
budget request for EERE is $1.25 billion, a $15.3-million increase 
over the comparable funding level in FY 2004, or about a 1.2 percent 
increase. That proposed budget increase includes a 4.8 percent 
increase in funding for the renewable energy programs, while holding 
energy efficiency funding essentially level (a 0.2 percent decrease). 
As noted in the EERE "Budget-in-Brief" for FY 2005, DOE allocates 
more funding for energy efficiency and renewable energy than it does 
for any other energy activity. See the 
White 
House budget briefing, a 
summary of the 
overall federal budget proposal, and the 
full budget proposal, 
all of which are posted on the White House Web site. EERE's 
"Budget-in-Brief"-a detailed examination of EERE's proposed budget 
for FY 2005-is available on the 
EERE Web site.

According to EERE's detailed budget justifications, by 2025 its 
programs could yield more than $100 million in annual energy savings, 
a reduction of about 200 million metric tons in annual carbon 
emissions, a savings of about 2 million barrels of oil per day, and 
an annual reduction in natural gas consumption of more than 1.5 
quadrillion Btus. The programs could also avoid the need for some 
150,000 megawatts of new conventional power capacity, while 
increasing the flexibility and diversity of our electricity system 
and helping to avoid power shortages. See the budget justifications 
on the EERE Web 
site.

DOE is also working to assure that its taxpayer's dollars are well 
managed. Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham noted last week that DOE 
was recently ranked first among cabinet-level agencies in 
implementing the President's Management Agenda (PMA), which aims to 
make agencies results-oriented organizations. The top ranking by the 
Office of Management and Budget reflects DOE's maximum use of human 
resources and efforts to integrate performance assessments into its 
budget requests, as well as its use of competitive outsourcing, 
E-Government, and improved financial management. See the 
DOE press release.

DOE Budget Proposal Boosts Hydrogen Fuel Initiative Funding

 
President Bush and Energy Secretary Abraham inspect a fuel cell vehicle.

When the White House and Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham unveiled 
DOE's proposed budget for fiscal year (FY) 2005 on Monday, both 
placed special emphasis on the President's Hydrogen Fuel Initiative. 
President Bush first announced the initiative during last year's 
State of the Union Address. The 2005 proposed budget includes $228 
million for the initiative, an increase of about $69 million, or 43 
percent, above 2004 funding. See the White House's 
summary of 
the proposed DOE budget.

Hydrogen holds the promise of an ultra-clean and secure energy option 
for America's future, and DOE will be at the forefront of 
implementing the President's Hydrogen Fuel Initiative in 2005. DOE's 
proposed FY 2005 budget for the initiative includes $173 million for 
the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE); $9 
million for the Office of Nuclear Energy, Science and Technology; $16 
million for the Office of Fossil Energy; and $29 million for the 
Office of Science. The proposed FY 2005 budget also includes $0.8 
million for the U.

[biofuel] Global Warming

[Ken Gotberg]

Global Warming

I don’t intend to be a heretic and only want to
mention that the Earth’s climate follows a strange
attractor and there are mathematical reasons, verified
by experiment, why it’s not possible to know what will
happen to global temperature with the addition of CO2.
 The temp may go up, go down, or remain about the
same.  Here’s a readable introduction to the subject
from Harvard Science Review

Chaos All Around

http://hcs.harvard.edu/~hsr/pdfswinter2003/young29-32.pdf

Best regards,

Ken


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Pump for fumeless processor

[Michael Fleetwood]

I am also in Canberra and would be interested to talk with you about your 
plans. I have seen pictures of a wet central heating system pump being used 
- these are common and cheap in the UK but I'm not sure about availability 
and price in Oz.

Mike.

At 03:20 AM 4/02/2004 +, you wrote:
>I am looking at building a fumeless processor from a 200 litre hot
>water cylinder but need a pump.
>I do not wish to spend hundreds $ on a new pump.
>Can anyone tell me of an ideal pump to use?
>PeterR
>Canberra OZ
>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
>Biofuels list archives:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
>
>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
>To unsubscribe, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>--
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>* To visit your group on the web, go to:
>* 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
>*
>* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>* 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>*
>* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Mike Fleetwood
Canberra, Australia.

Worldwide email address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] State owned biofuel companies

[Ken Gotberg]

I wonder if anyone has objections to State owned
biofuel companies?  The European Union has a 5%
biofuel legislation and it seems to me that countries
like Indonesia/Malaysia are in a position to produce
5% biodiesel blends at low relative cost to other
producers.  State owned oil companies have the
wherewithal to make this happen on a large scale and
can assure quality with long-term sovereign
guarantees.  Existing refineries can add FAME to spec
and ship in large quantities using current logistics
channels.  Something like this:

1. Crude -> diesel
2. Methane -> methanol
3. Fruit palm -> 2/3 FAME, 1/3 monoglycerides,
carotenes and other isolates. (Maybe something useful
can be made from the pulp as well.  The Bandung
Institute of Technology came up with a method of
making textiles from pineapple fibers that could
perhaps be applied to fruit palm as well?)

1 and 2 are in place while 3 would take clearing
forests (in Indonesia) for fruit palm plantations to
supply FAME above current edible oil production for
human consumption and to meet existing contracts.  The
timber will wind up in China and won’t be burned.  Do
environmentalists object to forest-to-plantation
conversion?

This isn’t being talked about around here as far as I
know, but it could happen in the not too distant
future.  Ethanol (from rice straw?)/gasoline mixes may
also work

Is anyone vehemently opposed to this and why?

Best regards,

Ken


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[Keith Addison]

Hi MM

>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&e=5&u=/nm/2004020 
>2/sc_nm/space_hubble_dc
>
>We are asked to believe that going to Mars and The Moon is of sufficient
>importance during this time of budget shortfalls that we should make 
>the effort
>to get behind these extremely expensive matters, but we are also told that
>funding this relatively modest program, The Hubble, one of the most successful
>and important research tools in history, is no longer advisable.
>
>I disagree with this reasoning.  With continuing discoveries, such 
>as the above,
>the Hubble reaffirms its worth periodically.  The only way I can see that we
>should abandon it is if it can be easily replaced by one or more
>above-atmosphere orbiting telescopes of comparable power and reasonably-priced
>modest-maintenance serviceability.
>
>Getting above the Earth's atmosphere seems important to astronomy 
>and seems one
>of the most cost-effective actions that NASA can help us take to continue our
>scientific discovery of the Universe around us.  If there are other legitimate
>considerations, such as military ones, then whatever.  But The 
>Hubble has proven
>its worth by just about any standard NASA could muster, and I think we should
>continue it.

Everything is subordinated to election-year cosmetics and 
window-dressing, never mind boring stuff like realities and 
consequences. Eg: "The Bush administration, in the mid-November 
Agreement on Political Process signed by L. Paul Bremer for the 
Coalition Provisional Authority and Jalal Talabani for the Iraqi 
Governing Council, came face to face with the fundamental issue in 
Iraq. In the pursuit of democracy, does the United States work out a 
process and a calendar that fits Iraqi needs or one that dovetails 
with the logic of the 2004 presidential election? Unfortunately, but 
not surprisingly, the White House opted for the latter..."
http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2004/0401transition.html
Foreign Policy In Focus | Global Affairs Commentary | In Iraq, Timing 
Is Everything

"Logic", hm.

Interesting names, Hubble and Hubbert, in this context of "budgets of 
mass destruction"...

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9878

Playing With Our Money

David Sirota, Christy Harvey and Judd Legum are with the Center for 
American Progress, a nonpartisan research and educational institute.

In what may be the most deceitful budget submission in memory, 
President Bush claims that the United States can continue operations 
in Iraq and Afghanistan, fund a trillion-dollar tax cut, increase 
spending on defense, homeland security and counterterrorism, and 
launch a manned mission to Mars, while cutting the $521 billion 
deficit in half over the next five years. And astoundingly, even 
these depressing deficit projections are wildly unrealistic. They 
rely on a grab bag of gimmickry and distortion that, taken together, 
dramatically underestimate the scope of America's fiscal crisis. A 
more sober budget projection reveals that, five years from now, the 
budget deficit will be $477 billion-almost exactly what it is today.

When President George W. Bush took office, the non-partisan 
Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that from 2002-2011 there 
would be a total surplus of $5 trillion. Now, over the same period, 
the country is projected to amass a $4.3 trillion deficit-a total 
deterioration of $9.3 trillion. And a new poll shows this is on 
America's mind -88 percent of Americans now say the federal deficit 
is either a "very serious" or "somewhat serious" problem.

The president continued his attempts to blame Congress for the 
massive deficits that he has racked up, but a new study by the Center 
for Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) shows how ridiculous this 
argument is. All told, tax cuts account for 35 percent of the $9.3 
trillion deterioration in the budget outlook since Bush took 
office-more than even the post-9/11 defense and homeland security 
spending increases. That is almost $3.3 trillion in deficits over the 
next 10 years due to tax cuts. For a graphic representation of how 
specious the president's argument is, see this new American Progress 
graph .
http://www.americanprogress.org/atf/cf/%7bE9245FE4-9A2B-43C7-A521-5D6F 
F2E06E03%7d/CONTRIBUTIONS_TO_DEFICIT.GIF
As New York Times columnist Tom Friedman says, the administration's 
total disregard of fiscal discipline has led to "budgets of mass 
destruction."

The president's budget does not include any funding for military 
operations and reconstruction in Iraq or Afghanistan beyond September 
30. The administration used the same gimmick last year, then 
requested $87 billion in additional funds. It has already been 
reported that the administration plans on requesting at least $50 
billion in additional spending for Iraq and Afghanistan-but only 
after the November elections.

The president has repeatedly called for his tax cuts, many of which 
are scheduled to expire over the next several years, to be

Re: [biofuel] make your on press for rape seed

[Keith Addison]

Hello John

>I ve found a spindle from a lathe or something, (the type running
>with steel balls between the screw and the nut), and now looks for
>more accurate drawings/ideas/principles on building a small home-
>press. I have some idea on speed, temp. and working principles, but
>not any measures or tolerances. Cheers John, Demark

This might help - not far from you:

Equipment For Decentralised Cold Pressing of Oil Seeds -- the 
Folkecenter for Renewable Energy, Denmark -- 64-page report, detailed 
descriptions and diagrams, mostly mid-range presses from 80kg/hr and 
up.
http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/publications/efdcpos_html/index.html
PDF -- Acrobat file, 917k
http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/efdcpos_ef.pdf

There's another design in our online Biofuels Library, here:

Farm-scale ethanol fuel production plant
Design Report
The Gildred/Butterfield Fuel Alcohol Plant
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html

Text includes Screw Press description and operation.

See: Plates - the blueprints
Plate 4: Screw Press
Plate 4a
Plate 4b
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield3.html

List of Equipment, Plate 4
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield2.html#list4

See also:

Oilseed presses
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress

Best wishes

Keith



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Re: Clean oil technology

[Keith Addison]

Hi Rico, welcome

>hi,
>i'm new to bio diesel,so i may be out of line jumping in here.

Certainly not, please feel free to jump in wherever you like.

Best wishes

Keith


>i have an industrial hydraulics background and i am i am very 
>familar with the process you are describing.one micron is very 
>small.the average human hair is about forty microns in dia.what you 
>need to find out is if the filter system is one micron nominal or 
>absolute.noninal means the filter will trap down to thatsize but may 
>let larger particles through.absolute means just that.nothing over 
>one micron will ever get through.
>the rest of the system sounds very similar to a system we used to 
>remove water from a unit that used silver plated aircraft 
>bearings.it worked very well but the plates would sludge up and have 
>to be cleaned.   good luck
>
>Go Hoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>A company in my part of the world, Clean oil technology, has just released a
>system comprising of a 1 micron filter and evaporator claiming to eliminate
>the need for oil changes.
>
>Well, the 1 micron got my curiosity as I am determined to to use wvo in a
>Lucas Cav pump and I visited their site:
>http://www.cot.se
>There is an installation pdf there which explaind how it all works. Since
>then I have been talking to Ronny Sëâerlund who is on the R&D side. He is
>prepared to answere any questions (but please post copies to the list, so we
>can all share) if anyone wants to look into this.
>
>Oil gets to the evaporator/heater after the filter and is basically sprayed
>onto a 120ˆá  heating plate where moisture is evaporated it then trickles
>on. The system requires a pump and at 3 bar will give 27 litres per hour -
>enough I would think for most car applications.
>
>Now I don't know what the Vormax filters down to or heats up to or indeed
>what it costs. This thing though doeas get down to 1 micron and heats to
>120ˆá - is this too much?
>
>Anyway I thought it looked quite interesting - I have no connection to COT
>I'm just curious.


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[dcande01]

Two comments.
When I was in school, early 80's, NASA had the distinction of being the 
only government that showed a profit.  $14+ return for every dollar 
spent.
2.  Doesn't the military turn hubble around and check out things on 
earth when it wants to?
Regards
Fred

On Tuesday, Feb 3, 2004, at 23:28 US/Eastern, murdoch wrote:

> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:02:43 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> on 2/3/04 6:01 PM, murdoch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>> we are also told that funding this relatively modest
>>> program, The Hubble, one of the most successful and
>>> important research tools in history, is no longer
>>> advisable.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The Mars program, unlike the Hubble, is worth a great
>> deal of political "hay". It's an election year,  so
>> they're "making hay". Also, Mars/Moon could be militarily
>> advantageous (in some, I think, unattainable scenarios).
>> Hubble looks OUTWARD, so is not of military import
>> (unless you believe they're interested in ET-invasions).
>>
>> -K
>
> Your comments seem reasonable and I can't find much to disagree with 
> in them.
> Were I advising on military matters, I'd have to ask, though, at what 
> point
> saving the government money can also be factored-in as an advisable 
> military
> purchasing action.  I.e.: Does "conservation" apply to military 
> purchasing as
> well as energy conservation?  If so, then shouldn't one of the more
> cost-effective NASA programs be seen in a new light?  How much money 
> will it
> take to replace the Hubble program with something less productive and 
> more
> costly?
>



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Fwd: Transesterification Can Be Fun: Biodiesel in LA

[skillshare]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "pathtofreedom" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:
Transesterification Can Be Fun: Biodiesel in LA

by Jennifer Murphy Sunday February 01, 2004 01:56 PM
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

(posted at: http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/02/102199.php )

What fuel is clean-burning, renewable, grown in the US, and brewed 
in back yards across the country? What fuel makes the murder of 
Iraqi children, the destruction of the arctic wilderness, and global 
warming obsolete? It's called biodiesel and it's arrived in Los 
Angeles. 

Pasadena's urban homestead, Path to Freedom, held a biodiesel "Fuel 
Mixin' Mixer" last Friday. Biodiesel is a viable, sustainable 
alternative to petroleum that can be used to run any diesel engine 
Did you know that Rudolph Diesel, inventor of the diesel engine in 
1895, built it to run on peanut oil? 

A few weeks ago, Jules Dervaes and his family, owners of Path to 
Freedom, and Nicole Cousino, George Steinheimer, and Kalib met at 
the mini-organic farm. Their purpose: to build a biodiesel processor 
out of an old water heater tank. Biodiesel fuel is made from 
vegetable oil, methanol and lye. The process is called 
transesterification . Many biodieselers get their oil for free from 
restaurants. Four million gallons of fryer grease are thrown out 
every year in this country. Fast food joints often have to pay to 
have it taken it away. It is sometimes used to make cattle feed but 
often ends up in landfills. The Path to Freedom group got their oil 
from a catering company that buys their organic edible flowers and 
herbs. When processed from free used grease, bio-diesel ends up 
costing about .60 per gallon... 

This weekend Pitzer College in Claremont hosted the "California 
Biodiesel Consumers Conference". The conference, organized by 
Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley, was planned as a two day intensive in 
education and brainstorming on issues facing passenger-car biodiesel 
consumers. They want to lay the groundwork for sustainable and 
homegrown biodiesel businesses to serve those consumers 

The "Fuel Mixin' Mixer" was an opportunity for some of the 
travelers, here for the conference, to see what is happening in Los 
Angeles. As the late afternoon turned chilly, Jules' son Jeremy, 
wearing rubber gloves and safety glasses, mixed the lye and the 
methanol in a large plastic jug. Jules and his other son Justin, 
with help from Kalib and Marie Alovert (AKA Girlmark) got the pump 
working. It sucked the oil from a large plastic drum into the water 
tank, where it could begin to heat up. The heating allows for better 
mixing. On a shelf nearby were several small jars of test fuel, in 
various shades of brown and yellow, some with a thick layer of 
glycerine . This is a biodegradable by-product of bio-diesel, which 
can be used to make industrial soap. 

The water tank processor was designed by Girlmark, who works with 
the Berkeley Ecology Action Center. The Path to Freedom group 
modified and improved the design, making it more compact. One of the 
beauties of this do-it-yourself technology is how open it is to 
creativity. Once the methanol/lye mixture was made and the oil was 
warmed up, they were carefully combined. Let the transesterification 
begin! The processor stirred it slowly for about an hour. The 
reaction began right away and the biodiesel rose to the top. There 
are two more steps after this, letting the mixture settle over 
night, and washing the fuel. 

To heat 20 gallons of oil takes a couple of hours, so the guests, 
numbering around fifty, munched on homemade soup and cookies while 
they waited. Discussion topics included the benefits and 
disadvantages of straight vegetable oil (SVO), fuel taxes in Britain 
and the US, intentional communities, and the joy of knitting. 
Present were members of the Boulder Biodiesel Coop, and Grassolean, 
another green fuels coop, who drove all the way from Colorado. 
Others came from the Berkely Biodiesel Coop, in the Bay area, which 
is, as usual, way ahead of Los Angeles in green technologies. Also 
present were Tom, of the informative VeggieAvenger website, and 
Biodiesel Betty, who's dream is that the school buses of the future 
will run on biodiesel (and maybe even the vegetable oil that is left 
over in the school cafeterias). There were also many interested 
friends of Path to Freedom, some of whom knew little about biodiesel 
until now. 

By the end there were several more converts to the beauty of home-
brewed biodiesel, as well as 20 gallons of lovely golden liquid, 
suitable for running an old Chevy van or a fancy new Volkswagon 
Jetta TDI. 

The same evening, a few exits south on the 110 Freeway, Northeast 
Neighbors for Peace and Justice screened a double feature on bio-
diesel as part of their regular Friday night video/potluck at Flor y 
Canto. First up was the newly released "French Fries to go" by 
Charris Ford of Grassolean, followed by "Fat of the Land", produced 
by Niki Cousino, Sarah Lewison, Julie Konop, F

[biofuel] WVO heater for shop

[northlandwood]

I am a newbie to this group and I have a question.
I am looking to build a heater for my shop. 
I would like to use WVO.
Does anyone have a good design?

Also,(while I'm here)I have a large supply of sawdust.
I am looking to burn sawdust in my fireplace or build a
burner for sawdust.  Anyone have a good design or method.

I was thinking of mixing the sawdust with WVO and packing it 
into small "logs" or chips and then burning them in the fireplace, 
but this takes time and makes a mess. 

Anyway.thought I would throw this out there.

Thank you for your time.



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] test batch

[wormmister1]

Hi everyone...i was just wondering how long you have to 
let it sit
after  its completed the process and been transfered to a new container



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Pump for fumeless processor

[PeterR]

I am looking at building a fumeless processor from a 200 
litre hot 
water cylinder but need a pump.
I do not wish to spend hundreds $ on a new pump.
Can anyone tell me of an ideal pump to use?
PeterR
Canberra OZ



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] Methangas

[James Quaid]

Greetings All,

This is my first post to this forum.  I work for a large SW util in 
their Solar Research Center.  Biogas from diary and landfills are a 
source of "green credits" for Electric Utils.  Where some state utils 
(AZ for one) will,  if you are  qualified, help you get Federal Grant 
moneys and put in the grid tie interconnect for free and buy any excess 
power produced from the biogas plant.  If you are lucky enough to live 
in a state with a forward thinking Electric Util, they are most 
interested in =>1.2MW bio-gas generation stations especially those that 
are close to sub-stations.

Pig manure is supposed to have the most methane content.

To date internal combustion engines are the most bang for the buck.  
However, the high sulfur content will cause you to do 2 head jobs / yr 
and one total engine overhaul / yr.  There are external combustion 
"Stirlings" being used in MI landfills.  But, they do not have the 
efficiency of IC engines and have yet to prove as reliable as their IC 
counterparts. .

The American Dairy Association has information on these Federal Bio-Gas 
grants. Please see the links below n 
 


You should also be aware that  there are EPA ramifications with any 
manure based venture and a waste digester would be a good investment to 
produce a cleaner grade of methane and containment for the raw product. 


Regards,
JQ
Cave Creek, AZ

Appal Energy wrote:

> Friedrich,
>
> Diesels are often used with producer gas as the fuel (downdraft gasifiers)
> to run generators. They work well in that application, as the high
> compression compensates for the low energy value of the fuel.
>
> Methane has a pretty high energy value. It might be that the fuel to air
> ratio has to be tamed down (energy value) to the realm of producer gas to
> prevent damage to the motor.
>
> Here is a blurb from
> http://www.homepower.htmlplanet.com/solar-vs-diesel-generators.html
> Renewable Diesel?
> "Diesel fuel is not the only fuel a diesel will run on. The addition of
> methane at the air intake allows the use of much less diesel, 
> typically one
> third the normal fuel use, resulting in reduced cost and reduced 
> pollution.
> The methane can be from the bio-gas output of a methane digester. "
>
> "Or the diesel can be entirely replaced by so-called bio-diesel --
> reconditioned friar oil from the local fast food outlet. Here too, 
> cost can
> be reduced and it is claimed that vegetable oils burn far cleaner than
> petroleum products.  Depending on which variation of several processes are
> used to process the used cooking oil, a gallon of bio-diesel can be 
> produced
> for as little as 50 cents per gallon."
>
> There is also this from
>
> http://www.sannet.gov/mwwd/initiatives/energy.shtml
>
> Point Loma Wastewater Treatment Plant
> "Eight digesters at the Point Loma Wastewater Treatment Plant use heat and
> bacteria to break down the organic solids removed from wastewater, much as
> our stomachs digest food. One of the by-products of this biological 
> process
> is methane gas. Methane, a colorless, odorless flammable hydrocarbon 
> gas, is
> found almost anywhere that organic solids decompose in the absence of
> oxygen - in mines, marshes, landfills and digester tanks."
>
> "This methane gas is collected from the digesters and is piped to the
> on-site Gas Utilization Facility (GUF). The methane fuels two continuously
> running generators that can each produce up to 2235 kilowatts of 
> electricity
> (a total of approximately 4.5 megawatts). Using new technology under a 
> grant
> from the California Energy Commission, a diesel powered generator is now
> able to also burn methane and produce an additional 1220 kilowatts (1.2
> megawatts) as a peaking generator."
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Friedrich Friesinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:41 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] Methangas
>
>
> > My question is:can Methangas be a fuel for Dieselmotors and if yes,how
> would it work?
> > I have a 100KVA Dieselgenerator,enough use for Electricity in my 
> Woodshop
> (I produce Hi Energieefficient Windows there).
> > A big Porkfarm is less than a Mile away from my Shop and i have
> > large Storage Tanks availible.
> > I am torn between Biofuel (collection of WVO is logistic costly)
> > and Gengas (i got lots of woodshavings)
> > but with Methangas i could bring Porkmanure to good use!
> > Your Input is verry appreciated
> > Fritz
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuels list archives:
> > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
> >
> > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >

Re: [biofuel] Re: Clean oil technology

[rico suavae]

hi,
i'm new to bio diesel,so i may be out of line jumping in here.
i have an industrial hydraulics background and i am i am very familar with the 
process you are describing.one micron is very small.the average human hair is 
about forty microns in dia.what you need to find out is if the filter system is 
one micron nominal or absolute.noninal means the filter will trap down to 
thatsize but may let larger particles through.absolute means just that.nothing 
over one micron will ever get through.
the rest of the system sounds very similar to a system we used to remove water 
from a unit that used silver plated aircraft bearings.it worked very well but 
the plates would sludge up and have to be cleaned.   good luck

Go Hoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A company in my part of the world, Clean oil technology, has just released a
system comprising of a 1 micron filter and evaporator claiming to eliminate
the need for oil changes.

Well, the 1 micron got my curiosity as I am determined to to use wvo in a
Lucas Cav pump and I visited their site:
http://www.cot.se
There is an installation pdf there which explaind how it all works. Since
then I have been talking to Ronny Sëâerlund who is on the R&D side. He is
prepared to answere any questions (but please post copies to the list, so we
can all share) if anyone wants to look into this.

Oil gets to the evaporator/heater after the filter and is basically sprayed
onto a 120ˆá  heating plate where moisture is evaporated it then trickles
on. The system requires a pump and at 3 bar will give 27 litres per hour -
enough I would think for most car applications.

Now I don” know what the Vormax filters down to or heats up to or indeed
what it costs. This thing though doeas get down to 1 micron and heats to
120ˆá - is this too much?

Anyway I thought it looked quite interesting - I have no connection to COT
I'm just curious. 




Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



-
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



-
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] Solar Panel Advice

[RGMTRUCK]

Hi all,

I want to thank all of those that have responded to my cry for help in making 
my first Biodiesel.  I am now in the process of making a processor for larger 
batches to see if I can make it on a larger scale.  I am very excited about 
doing this.  I want to power my Diesel gen set for my retirement home.  I am a 
ways away from retirement but I am working on it anyway.  I hope to be able to 
run a 2-71 Detroit diesel with the biodiesel.  My only concern is in the 
winter time. But I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

My retirement home is totally off grid.  I have solar panels and wind 
turbine.  I am looking into getting some more solar panels and thought I would 
ask 
the list if they have any ideas of what panels are the best cost per watt for a 
good panel.  I have a 48 volt system and want to purchase 24 volt panels.  
With the list covering as huge of a area that I have come to learn that it does 
I 
thought you all might have some good ideas of the good stuff.   The more 
panels I have the less my Gen set runs so I will have to use my Biodiesel in 
other 
places.  I have a lot of toys to use it in.  I want to have all my panels and 
wind turbines in place before I do retire so I can just sit back and smile 
and not haveing to pay the oil companies.

Thanks again

Rick M
Brownstown, Mi
soon to be Fairview, Mi.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[murdoch]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:02:43 -0800, you wrote:

>on 2/3/04 6:01 PM, murdoch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> we are also told that funding this relatively modest
>> program, The Hubble, one of the most successful and
>> important research tools in history, is no longer
>> advisable.
>> 
>>
>
>The Mars program, unlike the Hubble, is worth a great
>deal of political "hay". It's an election year,  so
>they're "making hay". Also, Mars/Moon could be militarily
>advantageous (in some, I think, unattainable scenarios).
>Hubble looks OUTWARD, so is not of military import
>(unless you believe they're interested in ET-invasions).
>
>-K

Your comments seem reasonable and I can't find much to disagree with in them.
Were I advising on military matters, I'd have to ask, though, at what point
saving the government money can also be factored-in as an advisable military
purchasing action.  I.e.: Does "conservation" apply to military purchasing as
well as energy conservation?  If so, then shouldn't one of the more
cost-effective NASA programs be seen in a new light?  How much money will it
take to replace the Hubble program with something less productive and more
costly?

I suppose, if we see some good astronomy from the space station project, it
could be replaced by that.  Is the space station project still on?  Will they be
doing astronomy?  I haven't kept up.

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM
-~->

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[Ken Provost]

on 2/3/04 6:01 PM, murdoch at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> we are also told that funding this relatively modest
> program, The Hubble, one of the most successful and
> important research tools in history, is no longer
> advisable.
> 
>

The Mars program, unlike the Hubble, is worth a great
deal of political "hay". It's an election year,  so
they're "making hay". Also, Mars/Moon could be militarily
advantageous (in some, I think, unattainable scenarios).
Hubble looks OUTWARD, so is not of military import
(unless you believe they're interested in ET-invasions).

-K


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Re: [biofuel] First aid for house owners. final draft

[murdoch]

Hakan:

Thought you and others might find this of interest, as to energy-saving
landscaping techniques:

http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Feb/02022004/monday/134869.asp

>
>
>I am ready with a final draft of "First aid for house owners". As many 
>know, I strongly believe that alternative energy sources and energy 
>conservation are two sides of the same coin. I would like comments and 
>suggestions as usual and hope that it would be close to the subject this time.
>
>First aid for house owners.
>Final draft, Jan. 2004.
>http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/
>
>Hakan  


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

[biofuel] OT: Hubble Comment

[murdoch]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&e=5&u=/nm/20040202/sc_nm/space_hubble_dc

We are asked to believe that going to Mars and The Moon is of sufficient
importance during this time of budget shortfalls that we should make the effort
to get behind these extremely expensive matters, but we are also told that
funding this relatively modest program, The Hubble, one of the most successful
and important research tools in history, is no longer advisable.

I disagree with this reasoning.  With continuing discoveries, such as the above,
the Hubble reaffirms its worth periodically.  The only way I can see that we
should abandon it is if it can be easily replaced by one or more
above-atmosphere orbiting telescopes of comparable power and reasonably-priced
modest-maintenance serviceability.

Getting above the Earth's atmosphere seems important to astronomy and seems one
of the most cost-effective actions that NASA can help us take to continue our
scientific discovery of the Universe around us.  If there are other legitimate
considerations, such as military ones, then whatever.  But The Hubble has proven
its worth by just about any standard NASA could muster, and I think we should
continue it.

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel

Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/