Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1I wish there were more US citizens that held your views. If there were, we (ie the rest of the world) would not be able to take the pickle out of you guys!. regards Doug (Remember, you guys, you get who you all vote for : so please vote! (Voting is compulsory in Australia) On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:26 am, Greg and April wrote: Perhaps, but, you know what they say, Expect the unexpected . I once blew my personal reputation out the door, back when I was a teen, and now I work at keeping it in good shape, but, despite all the good I have done since then, people still hold it against me, almost 20 years later. Add in the fact that others would hold my religion against me, saying it would make me unfit for any political office, because I would be unable to maintain separation of church and state. I despise the mud slinging that the race for political office has become, and I despise even more the media that pushes it for all it's worth, it's no longer even a veiled attempt at honesty, is has become a best of the worst - popularity contest ( indeed I personally think that it has become as bad as it is because of the extent that the media drives it ). I personally wouldn't want the job, but, for one big qualification, unless I had no other choice in supporting the Constitution. Like any President, he walks a fine line, a tightrope if you will. Not only that, every third person is trying to push him off. The other two people fall into one of 3 categories: The first category are trying to hold him up, the second category, flat out don't care one way or the other so long as they get what they think belongs to them ( which to my way of thinking is the worst possible category ), and the third type is willing to try work with him to make things better, despite differences. I always hope that when push comes to shove I can respect and support the office of President of the United States of America, even though I may despise and/or disagree with the man in it ( not mentioning any particular Presidents past, present, or future ), because he has the hardest bloody job in the world, and only a fraction of the support. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 14:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Sorry Greg, That was a rhetorical question. Not one that I either sought or expected an answer to. Rising above the devasting practices of another sometimes requires insuring that the other no longer has the opportunity to practice such devastation. Hence my response of the third option - to do nothing. I have no clue as to your personal reputation or desire to follow a honest and forthright path. But I can tell you that George Bush has chosen neither. He's a desecration to his faith and to the nation he swore to serve. If that makes him a better man than anyone, then everyone has a serious problem - a problem which has been recognized for four years. Sadly, a stop wasn't put to it before the last three began. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house, when invited, but, at the same time, I will defend my family and others ( even if it means my own death ), from anyone intent on harm. The hardest thing to do, is to determine if an action is going to do more harm than good, some cases are clear as crystal, but, many are not. It is even worse if your a leader trying to do the best for your country, more so if your trying to help the world as well. I would never want to be the President of the U.S. More is expected of them, than any other citizen of the U.S. especially with such deep divisions as we have. For all his faults, the President is a better man that I, not just because he deals with major issues, on a daily basis, but, because he *willingly* does it and in general, probably with more of a even hand than I would want use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 09:46 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... How do you lend aid to those who wreak so much devastation? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the
[biofuel] Vanagon seals
x-charset ISO-8859-1This may seem like a silly question but.. . I heard that all cars made after 1980 or 82 wouldn't need their seals replaced to run on Biod or SVO. Is this true. I just bought a diesel 1984 VW Vanagon and was hoping that someone on the list would know if the seals would need to be replaced and save me a trip to the VW dealer. Oh, one more thing. What would I need to replace with Viton besides the fuel lines? Namaste, Justin Care2 make the world greener! Protect your right to breathe clean, smoke-free air: http://www.care2.com/go/z/11238/1043 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants to forcibly impose sharia law on the entire world. under sharia law (at least the extreme version that osama holds) jews and christians must pay an extra tax. pagans and aetheists must convert or be executed. I later heard this joke told about saddam hussein. he and his sons killed millions of people in their reign of iraq, including the enlightened practice of having men hired to 'deprive women of their virtue' as a political reprisal against their family (ie these men were professional, government supported rapists) and the even more enlightened practice of droppping live enemies into a chipper. If Iraqi's continue to die at the current rate they are still thousands of people per year ahead of the death rate attribuatble to saddam. Now I see this story about GWB who caused countless americans to die... well not countless... OK so about 500... but 500 is alot.. anyway he did it so that we could get the oil for free ... except we buy it at market rates but it makes halliburton rich except that they are being watched like a hawk and had to return 60million in overcharges... but he sure is as bad as saddam. Just look at all of the professional rapists on the DOJ payroll... OK well, look at how GWB is trampling the rule of law by imposing religious rules in alabama courthouses oh wait they had to take that out. But the evil right wing reactionary conspiracy has thwarted the rule of the people by issuing fraudulent marriage licenses in violation of the california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. what was the middle part? Oh yeah, I can see the equivalence between saddam and GWB. Yep. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, there is a third answer to this... Moral Dilemma... This test only has one question, but it's a very important one. snip Suddenly you see a man in the water - he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar. Suddenly you know who it is - it's George W. Bush! You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. You can't do both. Here's the question (please give an honest answer): Would you select color film, or instead go for the simplicity of classic black and white? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1godwin's law sorry - you lose --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Bush is directly responsible for ALL the deaths on ALL sides in Iraq and you would only be responsible for one. I don't see how that makes you lower than him. I have heard a lot of people pissing and moaning about how so many people had the chance to kill Hitler and berate them for not doing that. For my money one life is not worth more than another whether it is a Bush or Hitler or my own for that matter. snip The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters the noblest motive is the public good (S.D. county motto?) the road to hell is paved with good intentions (?) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
RE: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
Dubya is a corrupt palm-greasing politician, who does exactly what his handlers tell him to do. However we could do a lot worse for a leader. Imagine in this little scenario, that you let Georgie boy sink like a stone, would Dick be a better president? Would there even be a pretense of a separation of Corp and State? For all that imagine that you are faced with the same dilemma but in October 2000, and instead it is Candidate Bush who is about to drown; do you think living under Wooden Al for the last four years would have been any different? Or would we still be in the same boat. Maybe not, but we could just as easily have been in a second cold war had Mr. Internet succeeded in selling our remaining weapons technology to the Chinese to benefit his buddies at Loran and Hughes. It never ceases to amaze me how brainwashed people are. That you let yourself fall into the polarizing us-them, democrat-republican trap. It doesn't matter which party is in power, we're getting screwed either way. 2004 is turning out to be another ivy league presidential race between two Skull and Bones Alumni. If Kerry gets elected, what do you think will actually change? GW will just retire to build his library and make million dollar speaking engagements. There's an old joke that goes something like Why do politicians look different? Answer: So you can tell them apart. I don't profess to know the solution to our problems, but I can say for sure that it's not going to come from either political party or their corporate-sponsored lackeys. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:19 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house, when invited, but, at the same time, I will defend my family and others ( even if it means my own death ), from anyone intent on harm. The hardest thing to do, is to determine if an action is going to do more harm than good, some cases are clear as crystal, but, many are not. It is even worse if your a leader trying to do the best for your country, more so if your trying to help the world as well. I would never want to be the President of the U.S. More is expected of them, than any other citizen of the U.S. especially with such deep divisions as we have. For all his faults, the President is a better man that I, not just because he deals with major issues, on a daily basis, but, because he *willingly* does it and in general, probably with more of a even hand than I would want use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 09:46 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... How do you lend aid to those who wreak so much devastation? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Amphora PDA-1
x-charset ISO-8859-1Re: Ethanol Production As a beginner, I thought it might be a good place to start by purchasing the Amphora PDA-1 Professional Distillation Apparatus (http://www.amphora-society.com/Equipment/Equip_1/equip_1.html). Is anyone familiar with this product? Does anyone have a recommendation? Thanks, Mike Redler Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Re: America has gone super-sized
x-charset ISO-8859-1Although we still have some catching up to do, Western Canada is also definitely part of the supersize market. Ah the turmoil caused by our excesses... Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good one. On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:09:09 -, you wrote: America has gone super-sized http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040219.wlett0219 / BNStory/International/ By ALAN FREEMAN Globe and Mail Update Washington I knew that something was up when I wandered into the drugstore next door to The Globe and Mail's Washington office looking for a soft drink and realized that the smallest size available was a neat 20 ounces. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
Perhaps, but, you know what they say, Expect the unexpected . I once blew my personal reputation out the door, back when I was a teen, and now I work at keeping it in good shape, but, despite all the good I have done since then, people still hold it against me, almost 20 years later. Add in the fact that others would hold my religion against me, saying it would make me unfit for any political office, because I would be unable to maintain separation of church and state. I despise the mud slinging that the race for political office has become, and I despise even more the media that pushes it for all it's worth, it's no longer even a veiled attempt at honesty, is has become a best of the worst - popularity contest ( indeed I personally think that it has become as bad as it is because of the extent that the media drives it ). I personally wouldn't want the job, but, for one big qualification, unless I had no other choice in supporting the Constitution. Like any President, he walks a fine line, a tightrope if you will. Not only that, every third person is trying to push him off. The other two people fall into one of 3 categories: The first category are trying to hold him up, the second category, flat out don't care one way or the other so long as they get what they think belongs to them ( which to my way of thinking is the worst possible category ), and the third type is willing to try work with him to make things better, despite differences. I always hope that when push comes to shove I can respect and support the office of President of the United States of America, even though I may despise and/or disagree with the man in it ( not mentioning any particular Presidents past, present, or future ), because he has the hardest bloody job in the world, and only a fraction of the support. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 14:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Sorry Greg, That was a rhetorical question. Not one that I either sought or expected an answer to. Rising above the devasting practices of another sometimes requires insuring that the other no longer has the opportunity to practice such devastation. Hence my response of the third option - to do nothing. I have no clue as to your personal reputation or desire to follow a honest and forthright path. But I can tell you that George Bush has chosen neither. He's a desecration to his faith and to the nation he swore to serve. If that makes him a better man than anyone, then everyone has a serious problem - a problem which has been recognized for four years. Sadly, a stop wasn't put to it before the last three began. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house, when invited, but, at the same time, I will defend my family and others ( even if it means my own death ), from anyone intent on harm. The hardest thing to do, is to determine if an action is going to do more harm than good, some cases are clear as crystal, but, many are not. It is even worse if your a leader trying to do the best for your country, more so if your trying to help the world as well. I would never want to be the President of the U.S. More is expected of them, than any other citizen of the U.S. especially with such deep divisions as we have. For all his faults, the President is a better man that I, not just because he deals with major issues, on a daily basis, but, because he *willingly* does it and in general, probably with more of a even hand than I would want use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 09:46 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... How do you lend aid to those who wreak so much devastation? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!
Re: [biofuel] America has gone super-sized
16 - 20 oz is about all I consume in one day, but I didn't start gaining weight, until I went on medication which slightly decreased my metabolism, and while increasing my appetite. Since discontinuing the medication, my weight has slightly dropped. My point is, the reasons for weight gain are multiple. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:09 Subject: [biofuel] America has gone super-sized Who could drink 20 ounces of carbonated brown syrup in one go and not explode? Looking around me, I soon realized that 292 million Americans do it every day and think nothing of it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn
x-charset ISO-8859-1It works both ways folks. Here is a recent quote from someone in the business: Due to legislation that was heavily lobbied by companies like mine, laws were passed forcing schools to inspect and abate asbestos materials. I was one of the folks using scare tactics to startle mothers into thinking it's possible that their kids won't live to 12th grade unless they spend millions and millions to remove all the asbestos. Moms fell for it. Some schools raised taxes to pay for my work, others cut sports and busing to pay for it. The law required it, which makes great business sales. Meanwhile, according to NIOSH, a worker in an asbestos mill without using a respirator for 40 years has the same risk of getting lung cancer as a 1/2 pack a day smoker. Fact is, a kid was more likely to get killed on the playground or from lightening than die from exposure from asbestos pipe insulation in the basement. But I'm not going to play that angle, as it won't make me any money. Since 1988, I personally have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from asbestos regulations. Recently, I worked with a regulatory think tank to help develop regulations to inspect and abate lead- based paint from schools. You know, moms don't want lead-poisoned children! I figure once the regs pass, I'll be able to retire by age 45. Now, the world is full of people who get over on others, and those who think they are getting over on by others. But Darwin put it best, Survival of the fittest. If I can get richer, but at the expense of others ignorance or stupidity, I'll do it in a N'York minute. Money is money, adn as ling as I'm not breaking laws, it's a means to the end. If you feel paying the book rate for service hours while the tech does it actually work in less than half the time is unfair, well, welcome to the real world. It's the norm. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:09 PM Subject: [biofuel] Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn Bush administration fudging data top scientists warn By OLIVER MOOREGlobe and Mail Update Wednesday, Feb. 18, 2004 Twenty Nobel laureates are among the scores of scientists who on Wednesday accused the Bush administration of using dubious science to gain public support for its policies. In an open letter, the Union of Concerned Scientists charges that supposedly independent advisory panels have been manipulated to suppress or minimize findings contrary to the White House's political agenda. Russell Train, a Republican who served as EPA administrator under both Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford, said that he never once felt any pressure from either of those presidents. But on Wednesday he told a conference call: how times have changed. Representatives of the group said that this manipulation has been done by appointing unqualified or biased people to the advisory panels, by disbanding some existing panels, by suppressing reports and by forgoing independent scientific advice. The concerns we raise here at not academic abstractions, said Kurt Gottfried, Cornell professor of physics and chairman of the UCS. The cavalier attitude toward science that has provoked us to speak out can produce tangible damage to the health, wellbeing and security of all of us, for generations to come. In some cases, another member of the group said, politicizing ostensibly neutral scientific advice can leave the public at great risk. One of the most egregious cases mentioned in the report was the issue of the panel on appropriate levels of mercury and lead in paint, and in the environment in general, said Neal Lane, a former director of the National Science Foundation and a former presidential science adviser. To appoint people who have clear conflicts of interest, because of their association with the paint industry, to panels that have to make difficult judgments on the scientific basis for limiting the amount of lead that is available in the environment, you could in fact do harm to hundreds of thousands of young people. The substance of the letter - which was signed by 60 prominent U.S. scientists, including Nobel Prize winners Steven Weinberg and James Cronin (physics) and Eric Kandel and Harold Varmus (biology) - was denied by the White House. I can assure you that this is an administration that makes decisions based on the best available science, Presidential spokesman Scott McClellan told Reuters. He also said that the Bush administration had worked on an independent peer review process to look at how science is used in regulatory decisions. Dr. Lane said that scientists understand that politicians must make their decisions based on any number of factors, not just the science, but he warned that efforts to fudge the data have gone so far that leading policy-makers simply don't know what they don't know. I've become increasingly concerned, even alarmed, by the Bush administration's actions to manipulate the
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1Greg, There's not much to say, other than the man is the biggest scumbag to ever hold the office. A tough job? Sure. The hardest job in the world? Homey don't buy it. And he doesn't get to draw a bye just because others may care to assess it as such. Were it so, he certainly wouldn't have been fit for the job since day one - which he wasn't. Money and stupidity on the part of millions of sheep is what got him there. And now the rest of the world gets to reap the dismal harvest. I'll be damned and go to hell long before I foster excuses or justifications for the way he's loused up almost everything he's touched since being selected to office. He's a liar and a con who has nowhere to hide anymore. It wreaks in every word he utters and tries to stutter through - an audible manifestation of a man who knows a lie when he speaks it and a sham when he supports it...just that he's too damned gutless or stupid to confront it. Somebody tell me exactly how someone who is supposed to be a god fearing individual could have such a despotic lack of concern for future generations? (Don't answer that. Again, it's rhetorical, with everyone already knowing the answer.) Let him sit on a dung heap scratching his sores with a potshard for all I care, although that is far less than he deserves. Although I certainly wouldn't wish such an injustice of ill company upon Job were he still in the neighborhood. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Perhaps, but, you know what they say, Expect the unexpected . I once blew my personal reputation out the door, back when I was a teen, and now I work at keeping it in good shape, but, despite all the good I have done since then, people still hold it against me, almost 20 years later. Add in the fact that others would hold my religion against me, saying it would make me unfit for any political office, because I would be unable to maintain separation of church and state. I despise the mud slinging that the race for political office has become, and I despise even more the media that pushes it for all it's worth, it's no longer even a veiled attempt at honesty, is has become a best of the worst - popularity contest ( indeed I personally think that it has become as bad as it is because of the extent that the media drives it ). I personally wouldn't want the job, but, for one big qualification, unless I had no other choice in supporting the Constitution. Like any President, he walks a fine line, a tightrope if you will. Not only that, every third person is trying to push him off. The other two people fall into one of 3 categories: The first category are trying to hold him up, the second category, flat out don't care one way or the other so long as they get what they think belongs to them ( which to my way of thinking is the worst possible category ), and the third type is willing to try work with him to make things better, despite differences. I always hope that when push comes to shove I can respect and support the office of President of the United States of America, even though I may despise and/or disagree with the man in it ( not mentioning any particular Presidents past, present, or future ), because he has the hardest bloody job in the world, and only a fraction of the support. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 14:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Sorry Greg, That was a rhetorical question. Not one that I either sought or expected an answer to. Rising above the devasting practices of another sometimes requires insuring that the other no longer has the opportunity to practice such devastation. Hence my response of the third option - to do nothing. I have no clue as to your personal reputation or desire to follow a honest and forthright path. But I can tell you that George Bush has chosen neither. He's a desecration to his faith and to the nation he swore to serve. If that makes him a better man than anyone, then everyone has a serious problem - a problem which has been recognized for four years. Sadly, a stop wasn't put to it before the last three began. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house, when invited, but, at the same time, I will defend my family and others ( even if it means my own death ), from anyone intent on harm.
Re[4]: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hallo Todd, Thursday, 19 February, 2004, 20:31:52, you wrote: AE Hey Gustl, AE Yah..., I too think Greg underestimates himself. AE As for the moral dilemma? I'd have some degree of difficulty wrestling with AE myself no matter what I did. AE Take pictures? Forget it. AE Lend a hand? I'd never be able to forgive myself. AE Do nothing? Well..., we all know about ghosts. Or at least some of us do. AE I'd rather live with the ghosts than the consequences of aiding and AE abetting. AE Todd I forwarded the Moral Dilemma to a friend who said he would hand Bush the camera and ask Bush to take a picture of him. Didn't care whether it would be black and white or color. Truth is we never know what we'll do until the moment and then sometimes we surprise ourselves. Ghosts can be hard to live with and sometimes they bring demons but with the right frame of mind one can handle it. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straà liegen, daà?sie gerade deshalb von der gewëænlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Faith-Based Intelligence
http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9991 Case Closed Ray McGovern, a 27-year career analyst with the CIA, is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity and co-director of the Servant Leadership School, an outreach ministry in the inner city of Washington, DC. Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. But when we've practiced for a while, we markedly improve our style. A time-honored aphorism. And the second-sentence Karl-Rove-corollary has been applied with consummate skill-until now. The web is unraveling. Chief U.S. weapons inspector David Kay cut the main strand last month, making it clear that the president and his advisors were wrong to claim that war was necessary to disarm Saddam Hussein of weapons of mass destruction. There were none. Kay's refreshing honesty threw a wrench in the works of the White House PR machine, which remains in a state of disrepair. The commission that President Bush handpicked this month to investigate the performance of his own administration and to report after the November election was widely seen as disingenuous. Perhaps the most telling sign of disarray in the White House was the president's decision, in effect, to do it to himself. Against the better judgment of his advisors, he insisted on submitting to an unscripted interview Sunday on Meet The Press. His nervous, defensive performance proved them right and hastened the unraveling. The most eerie coincidence was the decision to have CIA Director George Tenet go to Georgetown University on Feb. 5 to give an apologia-without-apology for the intelligence underpinning for the war on Iraq. It was the first anniversary of Secretary of State Colin Powell's masterful but-we now know-spurious U.N. performance six weeks before the war. Tenet's rhetoric rivaled Powell's in what Socrates called making the worse cause appear the better. Like Vice President Dick Cheney last July, Tenet set out to defend the indefensible-the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) that got it so wrong about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I remember thinking last summer, Why would Cheney choose to cite conclusions that had already been thrown into great doubt? Listening to Tenet do the same thing six months later-and after Kay's findings-added to my puzzlement. Their focus on last fall's NIE, Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction (the very title got it wrong) seemed at first self-defeating. Then I realized that this focus serves to obscure the fact that the decision for war predated the estimate by several months. That decision was made, at the latest, by spring 2002. That there was no NIE before that decision speaks volumes. Clearly, those around the president who were bent on war with Iraq did not want an honest assessment of the dubious threat it posed. Indeed, honest intelligence had already infected both Powell and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice to the point that they had declared publicly in 2001 that Iraq had been contained and that it posed no threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. Sadly, given the well-known proclivities of Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Tenet shied away from serving up an estimate that conveyed how little the intelligence community knew about any residual threat from Iraq. Tenet managed to keep his head down until September 2002, when the White House asked Congress to give its blessing to war on Iraq. The Senate Intelligence Committee woke up to the bizarre fact that no NIE had been prepared and formally asked Tenet to produce one. By then, however, Cheney, in a major speech on Aug. 26, had set the terms of reference. Clearly, Tenet was instructed to provide an estimate with retroactive support for Cheney's alarming claims regarding Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Tenet picked his most trusted-and malleable-aide, Robert Walpole, to chair an NIE that left honest intelligence analysts holding their noses. That NIE became the centerpiece of an incredibly cynical campaign playing on the trauma of 9/11 to deceive our elected representatives into forfeiting to the president their constitutional prerogative to declare war. One is left wondering: How did they think they could get away with it? The answer is embarrassingly simple. Don't you remember? It was to be a cakewalk. The vice president and others assured us that U.S. troops would be welcomed as liberators. They would be met with cut flowers, not roadside bombs. The evil dictator would be gone. And then who would care if it were eventually discovered that the case for war was manufactured out of whole cloth? Yes, I think this is what they really believed. And they were not about to listen to cautions that undercut their faith-based intelligence. Now, bogged down in the sands of Iraq with over 500 troops already killed, the White House is without a clue as to what to do next. Perhaps worst of all, since the president has condoned
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
So. COLOR OR BLACK WHITE? On Thursday, Feb 19, 2004, at 12:19 US/Eastern, Greg and April wrote: By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house, when invited, but, at the same time, I will defend my family and others ( even if it means my own death ), from anyone intent on harm. The hardest thing to do, is to determine if an action is going to do more harm than good, some cases are clear as crystal, but, many are not. It is even worse if your a leader trying to do the best for your country, more so if your trying to help the world as well. I would never want to be the President of the U.S. More is expected of them, than any other citizen of the U.S. especially with such deep divisions as we have. For all his faults, the President is a better man that I, not just because he deals with major issues, on a daily basis, but, because he *willingly* does it and in general, probably with more of a even hand than I would want use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 09:46 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... How do you lend aid to those who wreak so much devastation? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic. Thomas Szasz [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
Neither, I would try and save him, just like I would most anyone else. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 19:11 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... So. COLOR OR BLACK WHITE? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More WVO Vanagon engine pics@ 20,000km
http://homepage.mac.com/neobio/PhotoAlbum42.html Added piston pics. No unusual wear, no sticking, no gumming, no glazing, nothing. Remarkable cleanliness and lack of wear. Will add better injector pics next week. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
Greg, Good job or not, it must be something wrong. It is so many well researched investigations, that link air pollution and premature death. It is no doubt and you can almost directly quantify the premature death at different pollution levels. It is a difficult problem and a concern for any who understand it. For any President or nations leader to put his signature under weakening of pollution regulations, is a matter of dooming a certain number of his own people to a premature death. Your current president has done so and the effects and casualties will be larger than any modern US push button warfare. I do not call that to do the best, hard job or not, if the goal should be to serve his country and citizens. Beside that, it is good with high pollution standards, because most of them also lead to energy conservation and less dependence of foreign supplies. Hakan At 01:26 20/02/2004, you wrote: Perhaps, but, you know what they say, Expect the unexpected . I once blew my personal reputation out the door, back when I was a teen, and now I work at keeping it in good shape, but, despite all the good I have done since then, people still hold it against me, almost 20 years later. Add in the fact that others would hold my religion against me, saying it would make me unfit for any political office, because I would be unable to maintain separation of church and state. I despise the mud slinging that the race for political office has become, and I despise even more the media that pushes it for all it's worth, it's no longer even a veiled attempt at honesty, is has become a best of the worst - popularity contest ( indeed I personally think that it has become as bad as it is because of the extent that the media drives it ). I personally wouldn't want the job, but, for one big qualification, unless I had no other choice in supporting the Constitution. Like any President, he walks a fine line, a tightrope if you will. Not only that, every third person is trying to push him off. The other two people fall into one of 3 categories: The first category are trying to hold him up, the second category, flat out don't care one way or the other so long as they get what they think belongs to them ( which to my way of thinking is the worst possible category ), and the third type is willing to try work with him to make things better, despite differences. I always hope that when push comes to shove I can respect and support the office of President of the United States of America, even though I may despise and/or disagree with the man in it ( not mentioning any particular Presidents past, present, or future ), because he has the hardest bloody job in the world, and only a fraction of the support. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 14:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Sorry Greg, That was a rhetorical question. Not one that I either sought or expected an answer to. Rising above the devasting practices of another sometimes requires insuring that the other no longer has the opportunity to practice such devastation. Hence my response of the third option - to do nothing. I have no clue as to your personal reputation or desire to follow a honest and forthright path. But I can tell you that George Bush has chosen neither. He's a desecration to his faith and to the nation he swore to serve. If that makes him a better man than anyone, then everyone has a serious problem - a problem which has been recognized for four years. Sadly, a stop wasn't put to it before the last three began. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house, when invited, but, at the same time, I will defend my family and others ( even if it means my own death ), from anyone intent on harm. The hardest thing to do, is to determine if an action is going to do more harm than good, some cases are clear as crystal, but, many are not. It is even worse if your a leader trying to do the best for your country, more so if your trying to help the world as well. I would never want to be the President of the U.S. More is expected of them, than any other citizen of the U.S. especially with such deep divisions as we have. For all his faults, the President is a better man that I, not just because he deals with major issues, on a daily basis, but, because he *willingly* does it and in general, probably with more of a even hand than
Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1No Chris, You lose. Anyone foolish enough to invoke Godwin's law should also be intelligent enough to know the of fallacy in doing so. By your definition - the implication of Godwin's Law - there is no valid use of contextual or historical reference to aberrant behaviors of one particular affiliation or personna. To extrapolate on that, there would be no purpose in learning from such aberrance either. Contemporary nationalism would somehow be lesser a disease now than in the 1930s and political, economic and social corolaries would also have no significance were such triteness and foosishness to be the rule of the day. All too wrong bucko. It is you who lose. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: the_maniacal_engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:24 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma... godwin's law sorry - you lose --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Bush is directly responsible for ALL the deaths on ALL sides in Iraq and you would only be responsible for one. I don't see how that makes you lower than him. I have heard a lot of people pissing and moaning about how so many people had the chance to kill Hitler and berate them for not doing that. For my money one life is not worth more than another whether it is a Bush or Hitler or my own for that matter. snip The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters the noblest motive is the public good (S.D. county motto?) the road to hell is paved with good intentions (?) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1Sorry, That anology doesn't fly worth spit. You are the one who drew corralaries between Shrub and other miscreants and malcontents of international acclaim. Everyone else is willing to let him stand or sink on his own merit or lack thereof. All I said was that frankly the man is a liar and a fraud. Others chimed in with note that his fraud is directly responsible for the loss of 10,000 plus lives. You didn't selectively forget that bombs and guns kill indiscriminantly, did you? Or are only American lives those worth tallying? And then to offer justification by pro-rating lives lost uner one man's regime over time versus lives lost as a direct result of another man's lies, fraud and deception? Based on that type of logic, it's safe to hope that you're never put in charge of a discussion on principle/morality with a charge of third graders. And that's a really queer bit of twisted misrepresentation/juxtaposition in that last paragraph of yours, not to mention your failure to note the second $60 some odd million that Halliburton has been caught syphoning off of field kitchens. Keep that logic rolling.. Hopefully right out the back door into the nearest dung heap. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: the_maniacal_engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:15 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma... When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants to forcibly impose sharia law on the entire world. under sharia law (at least the extreme version that osama holds) jews and christians must pay an extra tax. pagans and aetheists must convert or be executed. I later heard this joke told about saddam hussein. he and his sons killed millions of people in their reign of iraq, including the enlightened practice of having men hired to 'deprive women of their virtue' as a political reprisal against their family (ie these men were professional, government supported rapists) and the even more enlightened practice of droppping live enemies into a chipper. If Iraqi's continue to die at the current rate they are still thousands of people per year ahead of the death rate attribuatble to saddam. Now I see this story about GWB who caused countless americans to die... well not countless... OK so about 500... but 500 is alot.. anyway he did it so that we could get the oil for free ... except we buy it at market rates but it makes halliburton rich except that they are being watched like a hawk and had to return 60million in overcharges... but he sure is as bad as saddam. Just look at all of the professional rapists on the DOJ payroll... OK well, look at how GWB is trampling the rule of law by imposing religious rules in alabama courthouses oh wait they had to take that out. But the evil right wing reactionary conspiracy has thwarted the rule of the people by issuing fraudulent marriage licenses in violation of the california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. what was the middle part? Oh yeah, I can see the equivalence between saddam and GWB. Yep. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, there is a third answer to this... Moral Dilemma... This test only has one question, but it's a very important one. snip Suddenly you see a man in the water - he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar. Suddenly you know who it is - it's George W. Bush! You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. You can't do both. Here's the question (please give an honest answer): Would you select color film, or instead go for the simplicity of classic black and white? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1What's even more amazing Bryan? It never ceases to amaze me how brainwashed people are. That you let yourself fall into the polarizing us-them, democrat-republican trap. It doesn't matter which party is in power, we're getting screwed either way. Is that you're the first person on this thread to frame it as an us-them - democrat-republican thang. I can tell you one thing for absolute certain. Had Shrub not been appointed we'd still have PNGV and probably a few 10,000 more hybrids on the road and a myriad of other similar far reaching policies that would benefit future generations rather than lining the pockets of contemporary corporations as is the present destructive trend. Uhhhthere's just one other thing. If you think that you can effect substantial change much beyond what color of socks you're going to wear in the morning, you're going to have to give some long consideration to utilizing whatever yahoos might be in office on any given day - either utilize their stupidity against themselves or utilize their sway. But you won't get as much done by discounting them. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Bryan Brah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Dubya is a corrupt palm-greasing politician, who does exactly what his handlers tell him to do. However we could do a lot worse for a leader. Imagine in this little scenario, that you let Georgie boy sink like a stone, would Dick be a better president? Would there even be a pretense of a separation of Corp and State? For all that imagine that you are faced with the same dilemma but in October 2000, and instead it is Candidate Bush who is about to drown; do you think living under Wooden Al for the last four years would have been any different? Or would we still be in the same boat. Maybe not, but we could just as easily have been in a second cold war had Mr. Internet succeeded in selling our remaining weapons technology to the Chinese to benefit his buddies at Loran and Hughes. It never ceases to amaze me how brainwashed people are. That you let yourself fall into the polarizing us-them, democrat-republican trap. It doesn't matter which party is in power, we're getting screwed either way. 2004 is turning out to be another ivy league presidential race between two Skull and Bones Alumni. If Kerry gets elected, what do you think will actually change? GW will just retire to build his library and make million dollar speaking engagements. There's an old joke that goes something like Why do politicians look different? Answer: So you can tell them apart. I don't profess to know the solution to our problems, but I can say for sure that it's not going to come from either political party or their corporate-sponsored lackeys. -BRAH -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:19 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house, when invited, but, at the same time, I will defend my family and others ( even if it means my own death ), from anyone intent on harm. The hardest thing to do, is to determine if an action is going to do more harm than good, some cases are clear as crystal, but, many are not. It is even worse if your a leader trying to do the best for your country, more so if your trying to help the world as well. I would never want to be the President of the U.S. More is expected of them, than any other citizen of the U.S. especially with such deep divisions as we have. For all his faults, the President is a better man that I, not just because he deals with major issues, on a daily basis, but, because he *willingly* does it and in general, probably with more of a even hand than I would want use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 09:46 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... How do you lend aid to those who wreak so much devastation? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
Hi I'm asssuming Todd wrote the original question about color or bw. Great question. I laughed my ass off when I first read it. I've never seen so many replys. What's scary is how many people are missing the question and are responding to the red herring. what's even scarier is how many people don't understand Georges job discription which is: Move as much money as possible from the treasury of the united states and the pockets of the citizens, to the bank accounts and coffers of his fellow bonesmen. So you see, George is doing an excellent job. btw both Kerry and Dean are bonesmen so it is safe too predict the winner of the presidency for the next four years is Skull and Bones, On Thursday, Feb 19, 2004, at 22:39 US/Eastern, Hakan Falk wrote: Greg, Good job or not, it must be something wrong. It is so many well researched investigations, that link air pollution and premature death. It is no doubt and you can almost directly quantify the premature death at different pollution levels. It is a difficult problem and a concern for any who understand it. For any President or nations leader to put his signature under weakening of pollution regulations, is a matter of dooming a certain number of his own people to a premature death. Your current president has done so and the effects and casualties will be larger than any modern US push button warfare. I do not call that to do the best, hard job or not, if the goal should be to serve his country and citizens. Beside that, it is good with high pollution standards, because most of them also lead to energy conservation and less dependence of foreign supplies. Hakan At 01:26 20/02/2004, you wrote: Perhaps, but, you know what they say, Expect the unexpected . I once blew my personal reputation out the door, back when I was a teen, and now I work at keeping it in good shape, but, despite all the good I have done since then, people still hold it against me, almost 20 years later. Add in the fact that others would hold my religion against me, saying it would make me unfit for any political office, because I would be unable to maintain separation of church and state. I despise the mud slinging that the race for political office has become, and I despise even more the media that pushes it for all it's worth, it's no longer even a veiled attempt at honesty, is has become a best of the worst - popularity contest ( indeed I personally think that it has become as bad as it is because of the extent that the media drives it ). I personally wouldn't want the job, but, for one big qualification, unless I had no other choice in supporting the Constitution. Like any President, he walks a fine line, a tightrope if you will. Not only that, every third person is trying to push him off. The other two people fall into one of 3 categories: The first category are trying to hold him up, the second category, flat out don't care one way or the other so long as they get what they think belongs to them ( which to my way of thinking is the worst possible category ), and the third type is willing to try work with him to make things better, despite differences. I always hope that when push comes to shove I can respect and support the office of President of the United States of America, even though I may despise and/or disagree with the man in it ( not mentioning any particular Presidents past, present, or future ), because he has the hardest bloody job in the world, and only a fraction of the support. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 14:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Sorry Greg, That was a rhetorical question. Not one that I either sought or expected an answer to. Rising above the devasting practices of another sometimes requires insuring that the other no longer has the opportunity to practice such devastation. Hence my response of the third option - to do nothing. I have no clue as to your personal reputation or desire to follow a honest and forthright path. But I can tell you that George Bush has chosen neither. He's a desecration to his faith and to the nation he swore to serve. If that makes him a better man than anyone, then everyone has a serious problem - a problem which has been recognized for four years. Sadly, a stop wasn't put to it before the last three began. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... By rising above what the other person did, although there must be some limits. In some cases, it must be with an olive branch of peace in one hand and a weapon of war in the other. I welcome people into my house,
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1Greg, most anyone else. ??? That's telling. Care to elaborate on the qualifiers? :-) ... Chuckle, chuckle...smurfsnort I believe a good number have already placed Shrub a little lower on the food chain than perhaps you would. I'm just curious as to how low of a piece of goat scrod someone would have to be to qualify for lack of assistance. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Neither, I would try and save him, just like I would most anyone else. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 19:11 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... So. COLOR OR BLACK WHITE? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Moral Dilemma??? Was:: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1I don't believe this thread. If I found George W. Hitler-M16-the-Jews-and-kick-em-into-mass-graves Bush moaning under the rubble of the fallen WTC I'm sorry I would still attempt to rescue him. I look at it this way. Whatever he may or may-not have done guys ... that's between HIM and DEITY. And come Judgement Day (or what have you), it will be HIM to answer you know NOT ME.MY TEST ... IMHO .. will simply be that I saw an injured man. And what did I do about it. That is my test. I'm starting to get rather annoyed. About all this talk of (what should I call it??) Playing God. Determining whether a man should live or die. I mean .. who are we?? Well ... that's my $0.02 Curtis - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I believe a good number have already placed Shrub a little lower on the food chain than perhaps you would. I'm just curious as to how low of a piece of goat scrod someone would have to be to qualify for lack of assistance. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:15 PM, the_maniacal_engineer wrote: When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants to forcibly impose sharia law on the entire world. under sharia law (at least the extreme version that osama holds) jews and christians must pay an extra tax. pagans and aetheists must convert or be executed. I later heard this joke told about saddam hussein. he and his sons killed millions of people in their reign of iraq, including the enlightened practice of having men hired to 'deprive women of their virtue' as a political reprisal against their family (ie these men were professional, government supported rapists) and the even more enlightened practice of droppping live enemies into a chipper. If Iraqi's continue to die at the current rate they are still thousands of people per year ahead of the death rate attribuatble to saddam. Now I see this story about GWB who caused countless americans to die... well not countless... OK so about 500... but 500 is alot.. anyway he did it so that we could get the oil for free ... except we buy it at market rates but it makes halliburton rich except that they are being watched like a hawk and had to return 60million in overcharges... but he sure is as bad as saddam. Just look at all of the professional rapists on the DOJ payroll... OK well, look at how GWB is trampling the rule of law by imposing religious rules in alabama courthouses oh wait they had to take that out. But the evil right wing reactionary conspiracy has thwarted the rule of the people by issuing fraudulent marriage licenses in violation of the california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. Did they really kill millions? I hadn't thought of it that way before. I mean, if those people were killing their countrymen and women by the millions, and only a few 10s of thousands have been hurt (I don't have an estimate of how accurate it is, but I read somewhere an estimate that something like as many as 90,000 people have been injured due to this Iraq venture, including, I think, on the order of 10,000 total killed) due to this war then it sounds like we got to play god and save lives by killing people. I guess my question is, should we really be trying to be gods? If we estimated that millions more would die in the next few years due to the brutal Hussein rule, and went to war to prevent that it essentially means we killed a few thousand people immediately to save the lives of a presumably greater number of unknown people whom we guess would die otherwise at some unspecified time. Furthermore, we did this without even seriously attempting some other solution(s) that could have saved the millions in the future while sacrificing fewer or none in the present, even though we knew very well that we could be wrong about our guess. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone on the planet adopted a policy of doing their best to never under any circumstances allow the lives of anyone, including their own, to get worse, or caused to have a increased chance of getting worse? In this case, if all our government employees, from the bigwigs at the top to the worker bees at the bottom, were to have that policy enforced upon them as official policy on pain of discharge, we would have poured the full might of the US government into the problem of saving the millions in the future while not sacrificing the thousands in the now. Actually, now that I think of it, this could be a useful policy for the US government to have regarding the whole world. Think of how many lives could be saved, and even improved! Chris what was the middle part? Oh yeah, I can see the equivalence between saddam and GWB. Yep. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, there is a third answer to this... Moral Dilemma... This test only has one question, but it's a very important one. snip Suddenly you see a man in the water - he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar. Suddenly you know who it is - it's George W. Bush! You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. You can't do both. Here's the question (please give an honest answer): Would you select color film, or instead go for the simplicity of classic black and white? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with Hail Satan -- From Bart Simpson's chalkboard writings. Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
[biofuel] Re: Faith-Based Intelligence
x-charset ISO-8859-1--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9991 Case Closed Ray McGovern, a 27-year career analyst with the CIA, is co- founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity and co-director of the Servant Leadership School, an outreach ministry in the inner city of Washington, DC. An outreach ministry? In what's been a war zone for 40-odd years? /snip the cutesy Shakepearean writing/ Chief U.S. weapons inspector David Kay cut the main strand last month, making it clear that the president and his advisors were wrong to claim that war was necessary to disarm Saddam Hussein of weapons of mass destruction. There were none. How few months ago Kay stated (first-person face time on Nightline) that he had documentary evidence, and would very quickly have physical evidence, of WMD. Kay's refreshing honesty ... Then or now, one wonders? /snip the rest of the diatribe/ lOOKIT, DON'T YOU GUYS GET IT YET? Bush Co. had intel from the highest levels, but that was above the Scam line. Saddam had an MO: any high-level scientist who didn't make his numbers - nuke, chem, bio - would get picked up and tortured for a couple weeks, then dropped off in his own front yard halfdead. Usually with a nice new Mercedes, by way of payback. Like nothing ever happened. So they scammed the reports/results. And ended up skimming the millions/billions Saddam targeted into WMD programs into get out of Dodge accounts. The defector who ran the Saddam Nuke program spilled the beans some weeks ago. Way after the war. So the White House got intel from Saddam's inner circle about WMD, the bestest brightest intel, the same information that Saddam got, but it was all faked for Saddam. /snipping off the rest./ Any questions on how this happened? Or more information on it? Any info on those get out of Dodge accounts? The Swiss won't take 'em any more . . . And who made off with how much . . More questions than answers, but at least we can understand what happened . . .. TD Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] Press Release by New Zealand Government - Why Climate Change Matters
Press Release by New Zealand Government at 19 Feb 2004 10:24 Hon Pete Hodgson Minister of Energy, Minister of Fisheries, Minister of Research, Science and Technology, Minister for Crown Research Institutes, Convenor of the Ministerial Group on Climate Change Thursday, 19 February 2004, 10.15am Speech Notes Why Climate Change Matters [Address at Dairy Expo 2004, TSB Stadium, New Plymouth] For those of you who don't know me, or came in by mistake thinking I was going to be Ian Jones, I'm the Minister of Energy, Science, Fisheries and a few other things including climate change policy. It's that last one that has taken me up close and personal with dairy farmers and brought me the invitation to speak here today. So let's talk about the weather. I'm not about to tell you that the storms we're going through now are the result of climate change. I'm not a climatologist and I don't think even a climatologist would offer any conclusions on that score. But what I will tell you - and what a climatologist would tell you - is that this is what climate change looks like. One of the significant consequences expected from climate change is an increase in the frequency and severity of extreme weather events. This is why we use the term climate change in preference to global warming, because it more accurately captures the range of climatic effects that the enhanced greenhouse effect is expected to produce. A long-term increase in global average temperatures is the key indicator and consequence of the build-up of greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere. But the expected effects of that change on the world's climate systems are multiple and diverse. The New Zealand dairy industry is founded on the superb conditions this country's climate provides for growing grass. This is why climate change matters to dairy farmers and - because of the economic importance of your industry - to New Zealand. We know climate change is already under way on a global scale and there do appear to be some measurable effects emerging in New Zealand. A study done for the Ministry for the Environment said a southward shift in subtropical pasture species might be one indicator, along with an increased frequency of warmer winters in recent decades. It also suggested that a recorded halving of the planted area in kiwifruit in Northland over the six years to 2001could be at least partly attributable to a warming climate, leading to reduced productivity. More than one farmer has suggested to me that a little global warming might not be such a bad thing for farming. And it is true that warmer average temperatures could bring some benefits, including better pasture growth in milder winters. Some of the predicted impacts of a moderate rate of climate change for Taranaki include changes in average temperature and rainfall patterns, and a rise in sea levels. In general, Taranaki, like much of the west coast of New Zealand, is likely to become warmer and wetter - perhaps up to 3degC warmer, on average, over the next 70-100 years. That might not sound like much, but it compares to a temperature increase in New Zealand during last century of about 0.7degC. And to put these figures in perspective, the 1997/98 summer, which by New Zealand standards was particularly long, hot and dry, was only about 0.9degC above New Zealand's average for the 1990's. Taranaki could be up to 20% wetter with more varied rainfall patterns. That means more rain for the pasture, certainly, but it also means flooding could become up to four times as frequent by 2070. We've been looking at another reminder in the last few days of the damage associated with extreme weather events. The cost of dealing with stock losses, replacing or repairing damaged roads, bridges, houses and stormwater drains, and dealing with increased soil erosion and loss of soil nutrients can be formidable. And the key thing to remember about climate change is that it is a cumulative process. If the rate and magnitude of climate change is not slowed down by a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, any beneficial effects are expected to diminish while the costs and risks continue to increase. The negative effects predominate in the longer term. This is why New Zealand can't afford to ignore climate change - and why we can't refuse to play our part, however small, in trying to do something about it. We are a small nation, and we can do very little on our own, but we simply cannot ask the rest of the world to act while doing nothing ourselves. By thinking ahead and acting with foresight, we can also seize opportunities to maintain or secure competitive advantage in global markets. Acting on climate change is primarily about changing our energy habits, particularly our consumption of fossil fuels. Humans invented the fossil fuel economy not that long ago and one day we will look back at it as we look back at the ages of horse and sail power. It is important that New Zealand catch the next wave in
Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:15 PM, the_maniacal_engineer wrote: When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants to forcibly impose sharia law on the entire world. under sharia law (at least the extreme version that osama holds) jews and christians must pay an extra tax. pagans and aetheists must convert or be executed. I later heard this joke told about saddam hussein. he and his sons killed millions of people in their reign of iraq, including the enlightened practice of having men hired to 'deprive women of their virtue' as a political reprisal against their family (ie these men were professional, government supported rapists) and the even more enlightened practice of droppping live enemies into a chipper. If Iraqi's continue to die at the current rate they are still thousands of people per year ahead of the death rate attribuatble to saddam. Now I see this story about GWB who caused countless americans to die... well not countless... OK so about 500... but 500 is alot.. anyway he did it so that we could get the oil for free ... except we buy it at market rates but it makes halliburton rich except that they are being watched like a hawk and had to return 60million in overcharges... but he sure is as bad as saddam. Just look at all of the professional rapists on the DOJ payroll... OK well, look at how GWB is trampling the rule of law by imposing religious rules in alabama courthouses oh wait they had to take that out. But the evil right wing reactionary conspiracy has thwarted the rule of the people by issuing fraudulent marriage licenses in violation of the california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. Did they really kill millions? Nope. The US- and UK-backed sanctions against Iraq killed at least half a million children though, as intended. In 1998, the UN carried out a nationwide survey of health and nutrition. It found that mortality rates among children under five in central and southern Iraq had doubled from the previous decade. That would suggest 500,000 excess deaths of children by 1998. Excess deaths of children continue at the rate of 5,000 a month. UNICEF estimated in 2002 that 70 percent of child deaths in Iraq result from diarrhea and acute respiratory infections. This is the result-as foretold accurately by U.S. intelligence in 1991-of the breakdown of systems to provide clean water, sanitation, and electrical power. Adults, too, particularly the elderly and other vulnerable sections, have succumbed. The overall toll, of all ages, was put at 1.2 million in a 1997 UNICEF report. The evidence of the effect of the sanctions came from the most authoritative sources. Denis Halliday, UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq from 1997 to 1998, resigned in protest against the operation of the sanctions, which he termed deliberate genocide. He was replaced by Hans von Sponeck, who resigned in 2000, on the same grounds. Jutta Burghardt, director of the UN World Food Program operation in Iraq, also resigned, saying, I fully support what Mr. von Sponeck was saying. There is no room for doubt that genocide was conscious U.S. policy. On May 12, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked by Lesley Stahl of CBS television: We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? Albright replied: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it. -- From: Behind the War on Iraq by the Research Unit for Political Economy Monthly Review May 2003 Research Unit for Political Economy is based in Mumbai, India. The group publishes the journal Aspects of India's Economy and a range of research publications in English and Hindi. http://www.monthlyreview.org/0503rupe.htm I suggest you read the whole report, it will certainly give you a very much clearer and less muddied picture than Chris Stratford has managed to do. Read this one too while you're at it: http://www.scn.org/ccpi/HarpersJoyGordonNov02.html Cool War: Economic sanctions as a weapon of mass destruction By Joy Gordon Harper's Magazine November 2002 Plenty more, but those should do for a start. I hadn't thought of it that way before. Well don't start now! Best Keith I mean, if those people were killing their countrymen and women by the millions, and only a few 10s of thousands have been hurt (I don't have an estimate of how accurate it is, but I read somewhere an estimate that something like as many as 90,000 people have been injured due to this Iraq venture, including, I think, on the order of 10,000 total killed) due to this war then it sounds like we got to play god and save lives by killing people. I guess my question is, should we really be trying to be gods? If we estimated that millions more would die in the next few years
Re: [biofuel] Re: Faith-Based Intelligence
x-charset ISO-8859-1You're mixing your threads... but yes... at least we can understand what happened. Which includes intel that discounted WMD. It includes multiple pre-war reports that sanctions were working as far as having diminished any immediate threat to all but the local constituency. It also includes the discounting of these discounts and the intentional distortion of reality on the part of a small group of men who were more preoccupied with a single end than a single truth - because they knew that the truth was not enough justification for a declaration of war. So again, yes. At least we can understand what happened. Even the why of it it is relatively easy to understand. Principly corrupt and immoral. But easy to understand. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: tdvolvo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 3:59 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Faith-Based Intelligence --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9991 Case Closed Ray McGovern, a 27-year career analyst with the CIA, is co- founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity and co-director of the Servant Leadership School, an outreach ministry in the inner city of Washington, DC. An outreach ministry? In what's been a war zone for 40-odd years? /snip the cutesy Shakepearean writing/ Chief U.S. weapons inspector David Kay cut the main strand last month, making it clear that the president and his advisors were wrong to claim that war was necessary to disarm Saddam Hussein of weapons of mass destruction. There were none. How few months ago Kay stated (first-person face time on Nightline) that he had documentary evidence, and would very quickly have physical evidence, of WMD. Kay's refreshing honesty ... Then or now, one wonders? /snip the rest of the diatribe/ lOOKIT, DON'T YOU GUYS GET IT YET? Bush Co. had intel from the highest levels, but that was above the Scam line. Saddam had an MO: any high-level scientist who didn't make his numbers - nuke, chem, bio - would get picked up and tortured for a couple weeks, then dropped off in his own front yard halfdead. Usually with a nice new Mercedes, by way of payback. Like nothing ever happened. So they scammed the reports/results. And ended up skimming the millions/billions Saddam targeted into WMD programs into get out of Dodge accounts. The defector who ran the Saddam Nuke program spilled the beans some weeks ago. Way after the war. So the White House got intel from Saddam's inner circle about WMD, the bestest brightest intel, the same information that Saddam got, but it was all faked for Saddam. /snipping off the rest./ Any questions on how this happened? Or more information on it? Any info on those get out of Dodge accounts? The Swiss won't take 'em any more . . . And who made off with how much . . More questions than answers, but at least we can understand what happened . . .. TD Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] flash point tests soya oil?
x-charset ISO-8859-1Anyone got flash point tests on SVO for Soya oil? I'm running it in my Jetta (03) Turbo Diesel and the engine is running cooler but I'm getting about 10% more range per tank. It's gone up from 1000km per tank (50 litres) to about 1080-1150km per tank now. I changed my exhaust pipe as well to a magnaflow with no back pressure so I don't know if the increase is coming from the mix at a 20% ratio. Anyone got info on this? I was running 20% before I got the exhaust and had no increase in range, but when I run straight diesel, I get no increase in range with the new muffler. There appears to be a relationship between the range on the 20% mix and the new exhaust. Is anyone else experiencing this or have any insight? Does it have something to do with the way the oil burns more completely with the new exhaust system resulting in the increase in range over straight diesel? Is there a scientific basis for this, or have I been smelling exhaust fumes? Sumit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Re: Faith-Based Intelligence
x-charset ISO-8859-1Sorry. Need to get the fog out of the eye sockets before early AM posts. There was no mixing of threads. Just that case closed and you lose strike the same chord and sound remarkably similar this early. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Faith-Based Intelligence You're mixing your threads... but yes... at least we can understand what happened. Which includes intel that discounted WMD. It includes multiple pre-war reports that sanctions were working as far as having diminished any immediate threat to all but the local constituency. It also includes the discounting of these discounts and the intentional distortion of reality on the part of a small group of men who were more preoccupied with a single end than a single truth - because they knew that the truth was not enough justification for a declaration of war. So again, yes. At least we can understand what happened. Even the why of it it is relatively easy to understand. Principly corrupt and immoral. But easy to understand. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: tdvolvo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 3:59 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Faith-Based Intelligence --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9991 Case Closed Ray McGovern, a 27-year career analyst with the CIA, is co- founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity and co-director of the Servant Leadership School, an outreach ministry in the inner city of Washington, DC. An outreach ministry? In what's been a war zone for 40-odd years? /snip the cutesy Shakepearean writing/ Chief U.S. weapons inspector David Kay cut the main strand last month, making it clear that the president and his advisors were wrong to claim that war was necessary to disarm Saddam Hussein of weapons of mass destruction. There were none. How few months ago Kay stated (first-person face time on Nightline) that he had documentary evidence, and would very quickly have physical evidence, of WMD. Kay's refreshing honesty ... Then or now, one wonders? /snip the rest of the diatribe/ lOOKIT, DON'T YOU GUYS GET IT YET? Bush Co. had intel from the highest levels, but that was above the Scam line. Saddam had an MO: any high-level scientist who didn't make his numbers - nuke, chem, bio - would get picked up and tortured for a couple weeks, then dropped off in his own front yard halfdead. Usually with a nice new Mercedes, by way of payback. Like nothing ever happened. So they scammed the reports/results. And ended up skimming the millions/billions Saddam targeted into WMD programs into get out of Dodge accounts. The defector who ran the Saddam Nuke program spilled the beans some weeks ago. Way after the war. So the White House got intel from Saddam's inner circle about WMD, the bestest brightest intel, the same information that Saddam got, but it was all faked for Saddam. /snipping off the rest./ Any questions on how this happened? Or more information on it? Any info on those get out of Dodge accounts? The Swiss won't take 'em any more . . . And who made off with how much . . More questions than answers, but at least we can understand what happened . . .. TD Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Vanagon seals
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hey Justin, I'm running in an 03 Jetta TDI with a 20% mix of Soya SVO and low sulphur diesel. I've made no alterations on it and have gone about 40,000Km so far. It's been serviced at the dealership a few times and no one has said anything. It's more of a learning curve issue as most people don't run SVO at all, but I think mixing is the safest bet until there is more data. I've heard of conversion kits that can change the timers and the compression rates but I have not bought an engine tuner yet. I'll tell you how that goes when I get one, it's going to be a trial and error type of thing and I've got no idea on the long term effects. Sumit - Original Message - From: Justin Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:55 PM Subject: [biofuel] Vanagon seals This may seem like a silly question but.. . I heard that all cars made after 1980 or 82 wouldn't need their seals replaced to run on Biod or SVO. Is this true. I just bought a diesel 1984 VW Vanagon and was hoping that someone on the list would know if the seals would need to be replaced and save me a trip to the VW dealer. Oh, one more thing. What would I need to replace with Viton besides the fuel lines? Namaste, Justin Care2 make the world greener! Protect your right to breathe clean, smoke-free air: http://www.care2.com/go/z/11238/1043 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] CAFE comment-question
1. In addition to what you've said, one thing I'd like to see, specifically, in response to the present untennable status quo of our Oil Gluttony, is an ending of the distinction, in the CAFE laws, between lighter smaller vehicles and heavier larger ones. (I don't know the exact lingo off-hand) One result of this has been an artificial perception that the large SUVs and trucks are somehow inherently more powerful. While to some extent it is true that a manufacturer might fit a larger engine to a larger vehicle, if only to equalize its performance with a lighter car, I think think it's also the case that these attractive-to-consumers-who-put-aside-mileage-considerations power options are put into larger vehicles because they are, under CAFE, ultimately more affordable to put there. This is just a guess... I find it hard to do the math.
[biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1Yep - the sanctions did kill a lot of people. too bad there wasn't some kind of food for oil program that would have allowed the kind baathists to care for the indigent of Iraq. Oh wait... there was. Gee, I wonder what happened to all that money that Iraq got under the food for oil program. GWB must have used halliburton connections to steal it..but it was UN administered... and GWB he wasn't president for any of that time But as governor of texas he was certainly able to hijack the oil for food moneys yeah - thats the ticket in case any of you have forgotten, Saddam actually did invade his neighbors, and yes the US did support him (to the extent that we provided 3% of his armaments during the iran/iraq war) aginst what we viewed as a more serious threat, namely radical islamism (no that isn't a typo). But when he moved against kuwait it didn't seem prudent to do nothing, since he had a proven track record of aggression. so we kicked him out of kuwait and then instituted sanctions if he violated the ceasefire- which he did. Ideally we would have gone back in a year or two later to enforce the cease fire terms, but by that time it was a new adminisration so it didnt happen. had we done so there would have been only a fraction of the deaths related to sanctions. But never forget that saddam could have ended the sanctions at any time by simply keeping to his agreement, and he could have averted starvation by not siphoning off the food for oil money. the blood is on his hands. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:15 PM, the_maniacal_engineer wrote: When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants snip california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. Did they really kill millions? Nope. The US- and UK-backed sanctions against Iraq killed at least half a million children though, as intended. In 1998, the UN carried out a nationwide survey of health and nutrition. It found that mortality rates among children under five in central and southern Iraq had doubled from the previous decade. That would suggest 500,000 excess deaths of children by 1998. Excess deaths of children continue at the rate of 5,000 a month. UNICEF estimated in 2002 that 70 percent of child deaths in Iraq result from diarrhea and acute respiratory infections. This is the result-as foretold accurately by U.S. intelligence in 1991-of the breakdown of systems to provide clean water, sanitation, and electrical power. Adults, too, particularly the elderly and other vulnerable sections, have succumbed. The overall toll, of all ages, was put at 1.2 million in a 1997 UNICEF report. The evidence of the effect of the sanctions came from the most authoritative sources. Denis Halliday, UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq from 1997 to 1998, resigned in protest against the operation of the sanctions, which he termed deliberate genocide. He was replaced by Hans von Sponeck, who resigned in 2000, on the same grounds. Jutta Burghardt, director of the UN World Food Program operation in Iraq, also resigned, saying, I fully support what Mr. von Sponeck was saying. There is no room for doubt that genocide was conscious U.S. policy. On May 12, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked by Lesley Stahl of CBS television: We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? Albright replied: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it. -- From: Behind the War on Iraq by the Research Unit for Political Economy Monthly Review May 2003 Research Unit for Political Economy is based in Mumbai, India. The group publishes the journal Aspects of India's Economy and a range of research publications in English and Hindi. http://www.monthlyreview.org/0503rupe.htm I suggest you read the whole report, it will certainly give you a very much clearer and less muddied picture than Chris Stratford has managed to do. Read this one too while you're at it: http://www.scn.org/ccpi/HarpersJoyGordonNov02.html Cool War: Economic sanctions as a weapon of mass destruction By Joy Gordon Harper's Magazine November 2002 Plenty more, but those should do for a start. I hadn't thought of it that way before. Well don't start now! Best Keith snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
It's actually very simple. I am Christian enough to honestly believe that I would at least try to save everyone, BUT, I know that I am human enough to have my doubts, about saving a few people. Examples: My ex brother-in-law, that abused my sister. A few people that have stabbed me in the back / ripped me off, after I have helped them. There is my moral dilemma, I know that I should forgive and help them, but, I don't know if I actually would, and that bothers the heck out of me. You can laugh if you want ( actually it appears you did ), but, it's not easy or fun going through life, knowing that you could have made the difference, but, didn't. I know it from personal experience, that it is not the least bit funny. So all the crap about the choice about color or black and white film is nothing but fecal matter, that is not even fit for use as fertilizer. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 21:30 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Greg, most anyone else. ??? That's telling. Care to elaborate on the qualifiers? :-) ... Chuckle, chuckle...smurfsnort I believe a good number have already placed Shrub a little lower on the food chain than perhaps you would. I'm just curious as to how low of a piece of goat scrod someone would have to be to qualify for lack of assistance. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Neither, I would try and save him, just like I would most anyone else. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 19:11 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... So. COLOR OR BLACK WHITE? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: moral dilemma
I think in time people will wake up to things like the skull and bones candidates, the republicrats are two sides on the same coin. I am a member of the constitution party. www.constitutionparty.com Start getting signatures to get someone moral on the ballot. I am new to the group and am just now trying to make biofuel. Im still getting the tools i need.Can anyone point me to the best place to get methanol or ethanol to use in the fuel? Thanks. Mike PS. see www.norfed.com to learn a little about why our system of currency will collapse. The dollar has lost 30% of its value in the last year. Ever since the Johnson admin. took all silver backing off of currency, he plunged america into an abyss of nonredeemable debt paper. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] anyone making fuel in Missouri?
I am wanting to if possible see someone's operation if I can as I am interested in making fuel to use in my farming operation. I am located in SW Missouri USA Scott Bradley Bradley's Better Beef 760 southpaw road Ozark, Mo. 65721 www.realbeef.com Warm up with wood heat! www.outsidewoodheater.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Tucson Biofuel
Hello, Are there any Classes being offered out there on Making biodiesel? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
You sure didn't bother to read those links, did you Chris? Well, why should you? You know better after all, never mind stuff like facts and history, just as long as you can go on comfortably knowing what you don't know. starvation by not siphoning off the food for oil money. the blood is on his hands. Nope. It's on your hands, among others, who'd rather preserve their cherished notions against all comers rather than be confronted with just what it is that their governments get up to with their tax money. Spare us all the smart-ass Oh wait... Gee's and stuff next time will you? Best Keith Yep - the sanctions did kill a lot of people. too bad there wasn't some kind of food for oil program that would have allowed the kind baathists to care for the indigent of Iraq. Oh wait... there was. Gee, I wonder what happened to all that money that Iraq got under the food for oil program. GWB must have used halliburton connections to steal it..but it was UN administered... and GWB he wasn't president for any of that time But as governor of texas he was certainly able to hijack the oil for food moneys yeah - thats the ticket in case any of you have forgotten, Saddam actually did invade his neighbors, and yes the US did support him (to the extent that we provided 3% of his armaments during the iran/iraq war) aginst what we viewed as a more serious threat, namely radical islamism (no that isn't a typo). But when he moved against kuwait it didn't seem prudent to do nothing, since he had a proven track record of aggression. so we kicked him out of kuwait and then instituted sanctions if he violated the ceasefire- which he did. Ideally we would have gone back in a year or two later to enforce the cease fire terms, but by that time it was a new adminisration so it didnt happen. had we done so there would have been only a fraction of the deaths related to sanctions. But never forget that saddam could have ended the sanctions at any time by simply keeping to his agreement, and he could have averted starvation by not siphoning off the food for oil money. the blood is on his hands. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:15 PM, the_maniacal_engineer wrote: When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants snip california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. Did they really kill millions? Nope. The US- and UK-backed sanctions against Iraq killed at least half a million children though, as intended. In 1998, the UN carried out a nationwide survey of health and nutrition. It found that mortality rates among children under five in central and southern Iraq had doubled from the previous decade. That would suggest 500,000 excess deaths of children by 1998. Excess deaths of children continue at the rate of 5,000 a month. UNICEF estimated in 2002 that 70 percent of child deaths in Iraq result from diarrhea and acute respiratory infections. This is the result-as foretold accurately by U.S. intelligence in 1991-of the breakdown of systems to provide clean water, sanitation, and electrical power. Adults, too, particularly the elderly and other vulnerable sections, have succumbed. The overall toll, of all ages, was put at 1.2 million in a 1997 UNICEF report. The evidence of the effect of the sanctions came from the most authoritative sources. Denis Halliday, UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq from 1997 to 1998, resigned in protest against the operation of the sanctions, which he termed deliberate genocide. He was replaced by Hans von Sponeck, who resigned in 2000, on the same grounds. Jutta Burghardt, director of the UN World Food Program operation in Iraq, also resigned, saying, I fully support what Mr. von Sponeck was saying. There is no room for doubt that genocide was conscious U.S. policy. On May 12, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked by Lesley Stahl of CBS television: We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? Albright replied: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it. -- From: Behind the War on Iraq by the Research Unit for Political Economy Monthly Review May 2003 Research Unit for Political Economy is based in Mumbai, India. The group publishes the journal Aspects of India's Economy and a range of research publications in English and Hindi. http://www.monthlyreview.org/0503rupe.htm I suggest you read the whole report, it will certainly give you a very much clearer and less muddied picture than Chris Stratford has managed to do. Read this one too while you're at it: http://www.scn.org/ccpi/HarpersJoyGordonNov02.html Cool War: Economic sanctions as a weapon of mass destruction By Joy Gordon
[biofuel] RE: moral dilemma
Hi Mike, welcome I think in time people will wake up to things like the skull and bones candidates, the republicrats are two sides on the same coin. I am a member of the constitution party. www.constitutionparty.com Start getting signatures to get someone moral on the ballot. I am new to the group and am just now trying to make biofuel. Im still getting the tools i need.Can anyone point me to the best place to get methanol or ethanol to use in the fuel? Thanks. Mike Ethanol is appealing, for obvious reasons, but it's not for novices. Start with methanol, maybe move on to ethanol when you've a bit more experience behind you. See: Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#ethylester There's information in the archives on where to get methanol, try a search: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Or tell us where you are if you want something more local. Best wishes Keith PS. see www.norfed.com to learn a little about why our system of currency will collapse. The dollar has lost 30% of its value in the last year. Ever since the Johnson admin. took all silver backing off of currency, he plunged america into an abyss of nonredeemable debt paper. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Not Quite A Dream Team
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9966 Not Quite A Dream Team Laura Flanders is the host of Your Call heard on KALW-FM in San Francisco, and on the Internet, and author of Bushwomen: Tales of a Cynical Species, forthcoming from Verso Books in March 2004. John Kerry's primary victories are mounting and anyone-but-Bush voters are hankering for a show-down with the Resident. The Massachusetts Senator's bring it on victory speeches get big-d Democrats fired up, but when it comes to foreign policy, Kerry is hardly the anti-Bush many are longing for. As the jockeying begins among those who fancy a government job should Kerry beat Bush in November, it's never too early to give the hopefuls currently advising the candidate a serious look. Consider Kerry's foreign policy advisers. Ask the candidate's supporters, and the advisor they mention first is Joe Wilson, the Clinton-era National Security Council member who investigated claims that Saddam Hussein was trying to buy weapons-grade uranium from Niger. Wilson won battle stars from progressives for going public with his findings, which contradicted the Bush administration's claims. Wilson's wife, CIA agent Valerie Plame, was outed by a White House source or sources as a consequence. Wilson may be a white hat, but it's hard to say the same about Richard Morningstar, Rand Beers and William Perry, three other members of Kerry's foreign policy team. Morningstar, a former advisor to President Clinton on Caspian energy, was instrumental in pushing for the controversial Baku-Tiblisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline. The plan has strong support on both sides of the political aisle. A consortium of oil companies are deeply invested, including Britain's BP, and the U.S. firms Unocal and Amerada Hess. In the 1990s, the Clinton administration did all it could to clear the way for BTC, including extending U.S. Export-Import Bank financing, and recruiting Dick Cheney, James Baker and others to lobby local governments. James Baker's law firm, Baker Botts, represents BP. Dick Cheney's Halliburton, an oil-industry supplier, won the contract to build refineries for several Caspian states. As a member of its Board of Directors, Condoleezza Rice helped negotiate Chevron's deal to drill the Caspian's purportedly richest field, the Tengiz. In 2003, Morningstar explained to the Harvard University Caspian Studies program that the pipeline, which would run through Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey, is expected to be used by Caspian Sea states to bring their oil west to market. As Morningstar explained to the Harvard project's members, it advances various regional policy goals, among them, promoting energy security and ensuring that neither Russia nor Iran can develop a monopoly over pipelines from the Caspian. (Harvard's Caspian Studies program is sponsored by, among others, Chevron, Unocal and Amerada Hess.) With Turkey's agreement, work on the BTC pipeline began in September '02. The World Bank agreed last November to provide $250 million in financing, but human rights groups and environmentalists are still hoping it can be stopped. Last year, Amnesty International released a report noting that the project would violate the human rights of thousands of people and cause severe environmental damage. Amnesty International alleges that the pipeline's backers' agreement with the Turkish government strips local people and workers of their civil rights. A Kerry administration with Morningstar as national security advisor could be expected to keep the BTC on track. Nothing much would change in the worlds of agribusiness and trade either. In 1999, as U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Morningstar issued a scathing attack on EU policy barring genetically modified foods. Politics and demagoguery have completely taken over the regulatory process, he said. Bush's Agriculture Secretary, Ann Veneman, uses virtually the same exact words. Another of Kerry's foreign policy advisors is Rand Beers. Sean Donahue of the Massachusetts Anti-Corporate Clearinghouse wrote a revealing account of Beers'career for the Counterpunch Web site last month. Suffice to say that Beers was the public face of Clinton's deadly crop-fumigation program in Colombia. He once said under oath that Columbian terrorists had received training in Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan. (A claim he later had to withdraw.) If John Kerry lets Rand Beers continue to guide his foreign policy, a Kerry administration will be no better for rural Colombians than a Bush administration, wrote Donahue. Voters who want Sen. Kerry to offer a humane alternative to Bush should demand that the senator pledge now not to make Beers secretary of state. Rounding out Kerry's team is William Perry. As Clinton-era secretary of defense, Perry spearheaded a post-cold war plan to restructure the defense industry, but the Perry plan wasn't quite the peace dividend Americans had in mind. Perry
[biofuel] U.S. petroleum engineers become rare commodity
http://www.enn.com/news/2004-02-18/s_13212.asp U.S. petroleum engineers become rare commodity Wednesday, February 18, 2004 By David Brinkerhoff, Reuters NEW YORK - Striking oil isn't easy, but companies searching for black gold are finding it even tougher to recruit new petroleum engineers. Layoffs, the technology boom, and a bad public image have all contributed to a sharp decline in students pursuing energy careers at U.S. universities. And as a large number of engineers approach retirement age, a staffing crunch looms. We have an aging problem, said Stephen Holditch, head of petroleum engineering at Texas AM University. Universities in the U.S. are barely turning out enough students to meet the demand from industry. Petroleum engineers are crucial because they locate new fields and devise ways to pump oil from hard-to-reach places like ocean floors, deserts, and Arctic tundra. With fewer recruits, the average age of engineers is rising, resulting in higher salaries that will jack up production costs. The staffing problem is more acute in North America, where the average age is 51, according to the Society of Petroleum Engineers. Overseas, the average is closer to 41. Staffing shortfalls could also delay projects at a time when Big Oil is working harder than ever to boost production. Since peaking in 1983, enrollment in U.S. petroleum engineering has dropped 60 percent, according to industry data. At most programs, there are a dozen oil engineers compared with hundreds pursuing mechanical or electrical professions. Lost Generation U.S. students have generally avoided petroleum engineering since the early 1980s, when a collapse in oil markets spawned huge industry layoffs. The profession never recovered, as fears of another bust discouraged enrollment. Those concerns grew in the 1990s, when a wave of mergers forced more layoffs. They really lost a generation, said Charles Swanson, Americas director of oil and gas at Ernst Young. Since then, a new generation has been lured away by the Internet boom or scared off by the industry's environmental and human rights record, Holditch said. Allegations against Halliburton Co. of overbilling in Iraq, among other accusations, and Exxon Mobil Corp.'s oil spill in Alaska have soured young prospects. All this stuff about Halliburton being evil doesn't do us any favors, Holditch said. And the Valdez spill, that just killed us. Because of that, new graduates no longer consider energy companies sexy, said Neil McMahon, oil analyst with Sanford C. Bernstein Co.. It is a challenge, a ChevronTexaco Corp. spokesman said. We have a few programs here, not only for recruiting new engineers but also to retain them. The image problem could hit the bottom line at a time when production growth is challenged. Production Declines In North America, the size of new fields continues to decline. As a result, energy companies are forced to drill more wells just to maintain production levels. While advanced computers and communications enable fewer employees to monitor wells, oil producers could still use more people to design, maintain, and monitor facilities. Over the next decade, one-quarter of the industry's engineers will retire, Holditch estimates. The personnel shortage could mean delays in energy projects, resulting in higher costs. Expenses could also increase as aging staffs command higher salaries, according to McMahon. The average salary has grown at least 3 percent a year over the past decade. Pension contributions will also rise. These costs will feed to the bottom line, and the trend is unlikely to be reversed in the near future, McMahon said. Higher oil prices could result, he concluded. Holditch sees steady job growth in the sector over the next few years. Recently, hiring trends have stabilized as energy companies enjoyed a sustained rally in commodity prices. Ultimately, companies will need to go overseas to plug gaps, as schools in Beijing, Moscow, and Cairo churn out candidates. BP Plc has tapped a new pool of Russian graduates, McMahon noted. Companies also should reach out to colleges and high schools, convincing students that oil and gas will remain a rewarding career, Holditch said. The industry must further improve its hiring practices if it wants to avert a staffing crunch over the next decade, Holditch said. (Additional reporting by Joseph Giannone) Source: Reuters Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives:
Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
Sorry Chris, But the illegal invasion and occupation was not to remove Saddam from power. It was to get a better foothold in the middle east... WHERE THE OIL IS!! That was the intent during the first Gulf War. The US succeeded to a small degree with bases in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. But the bigger picture now is to turn Iraq into the neutered puppy of the middle east where the handler has a big stick just in case someone has something to say about it (that would be the US.) Frankly, all sides have blood on their hands. fred At 06:02 PM 2/20/2004 +, you wrote: Yep - the sanctions did kill a lot of people. too bad there wasn't some kind of food for oil program that would have allowed the kind baathists to care for the indigent of Iraq. Oh wait... there was. Gee, I wonder what happened to all that money that Iraq got under the food for oil program. GWB must have used halliburton connections to steal it..but it was UN administered... and GWB he wasn't president for any of that time But as governor of texas he was certainly able to hijack the oil for food moneys yeah - thats the ticket in case any of you have forgotten, Saddam actually did invade his neighbors, and yes the US did support him (to the extent that we provided 3% of his armaments during the iran/iraq war) aginst what we viewed as a more serious threat, namely radical islamism (no that isn't a typo). But when he moved against kuwait it didn't seem prudent to do nothing, since he had a proven track record of aggression. so we kicked him out of kuwait and then instituted sanctions if he violated the ceasefire- which he did. Ideally we would have gone back in a year or two later to enforce the cease fire terms, but by that time it was a new adminisration so it didnt happen. had we done so there would have been only a fraction of the deaths related to sanctions. But never forget that saddam could have ended the sanctions at any time by simply keeping to his agreement, and he could have averted starvation by not siphoning off the food for oil money. the blood is on his hands. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:15 PM, the_maniacal_engineer wrote: When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants snip california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. Did they really kill millions? Nope. The US- and UK-backed sanctions against Iraq killed at least half a million children though, as intended. In 1998, the UN carried out a nationwide survey of health and nutrition. It found that mortality rates among children under five in central and southern Iraq had doubled from the previous decade. That would suggest 500,000 excess deaths of children by 1998. Excess deaths of children continue at the rate of 5,000 a month. UNICEF estimated in 2002 that 70 percent of child deaths in Iraq result from diarrhea and acute respiratory infections. This is the result-as foretold accurately by U.S. intelligence in 1991-of the breakdown of systems to provide clean water, sanitation, and electrical power. Adults, too, particularly the elderly and other vulnerable sections, have succumbed. The overall toll, of all ages, was put at 1.2 million in a 1997 UNICEF report. The evidence of the effect of the sanctions came from the most authoritative sources. Denis Halliday, UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq from 1997 to 1998, resigned in protest against the operation of the sanctions, which he termed deliberate genocide. He was replaced by Hans von Sponeck, who resigned in 2000, on the same grounds. Jutta Burghardt, director of the UN World Food Program operation in Iraq, also resigned, saying, I fully support what Mr. von Sponeck was saying. There is no room for doubt that genocide was conscious U.S. policy. On May 12, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked by Lesley Stahl of CBS television: We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? Albright replied: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it. -- From: Behind the War on Iraq by the Research Unit for Political Economy Monthly Review May 2003 Research Unit for Political Economy is based in Mumbai, India. The group publishes the journal Aspects of India's Economy and a range of research publications in English and Hindi. http://www.monthlyreview.org/0503rupe.htm I suggest you read the whole report, it will certainly give you a very much clearer and less muddied picture than Chris Stratford has managed to do. Read this one too while you're at it: http://www.scn.org/ccpi/HarpersJoyGordonNov02.html Cool War: Economic sanctions as a weapon of mass destruction By Joy Gordon Harper's Magazine November
Re: [biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma...
I forgot to mention: Frankly, all sides have blood on their hands. This would include me since I did not speak out when it was necessary, fred At 02:58 PM 2/20/2004 -0600, you wrote: Sorry Chris, But the illegal invasion and occupation was not to remove Saddam from power. It was to get a better foothold in the middle east... WHERE THE OIL IS!! That was the intent during the first Gulf War. The US succeeded to a small degree with bases in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. But the bigger picture now is to turn Iraq into the neutered puppy of the middle east where the handler has a big stick just in case someone has something to say about it (that would be the US.) Frankly, all sides have blood on their hands. fred At 06:02 PM 2/20/2004 +, you wrote: Yep - the sanctions did kill a lot of people. too bad there wasn't some kind of food for oil program that would have allowed the kind baathists to care for the indigent of Iraq. Oh wait... there was. Gee, I wonder what happened to all that money that Iraq got under the food for oil program. GWB must have used halliburton connections to steal it..but it was UN administered... and GWB he wasn't president for any of that time But as governor of texas he was certainly able to hijack the oil for food moneys yeah - thats the ticket in case any of you have forgotten, Saddam actually did invade his neighbors, and yes the US did support him (to the extent that we provided 3% of his armaments during the iran/iraq war) aginst what we viewed as a more serious threat, namely radical islamism (no that isn't a typo). But when he moved against kuwait it didn't seem prudent to do nothing, since he had a proven track record of aggression. so we kicked him out of kuwait and then instituted sanctions if he violated the ceasefire- which he did. Ideally we would have gone back in a year or two later to enforce the cease fire terms, but by that time it was a new adminisration so it didnt happen. had we done so there would have been only a fraction of the deaths related to sanctions. But never forget that saddam could have ended the sanctions at any time by simply keeping to his agreement, and he could have averted starvation by not siphoning off the food for oil money. the blood is on his hands. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:15 PM, the_maniacal_engineer wrote: When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants snip california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist mayor/judges.. Did they really kill millions? Nope. The US- and UK-backed sanctions against Iraq killed at least half a million children though, as intended. In 1998, the UN carried out a nationwide survey of health and nutrition. It found that mortality rates among children under five in central and southern Iraq had doubled from the previous decade. That would suggest 500,000 excess deaths of children by 1998. Excess deaths of children continue at the rate of 5,000 a month. UNICEF estimated in 2002 that 70 percent of child deaths in Iraq result from diarrhea and acute respiratory infections. This is the result-as foretold accurately by U.S. intelligence in 1991-of the breakdown of systems to provide clean water, sanitation, and electrical power. Adults, too, particularly the elderly and other vulnerable sections, have succumbed. The overall toll, of all ages, was put at 1.2 million in a 1997 UNICEF report. The evidence of the effect of the sanctions came from the most authoritative sources. Denis Halliday, UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq from 1997 to 1998, resigned in protest against the operation of the sanctions, which he termed deliberate genocide. He was replaced by Hans von Sponeck, who resigned in 2000, on the same grounds. Jutta Burghardt, director of the UN World Food Program operation in Iraq, also resigned, saying, I fully support what Mr. von Sponeck was saying. There is no room for doubt that genocide was conscious U.S. policy. On May 12, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked by Lesley Stahl of CBS television: We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? Albright replied: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it. -- From: Behind the War on Iraq by the Research Unit for Political Economy Monthly Review May 2003 Research Unit for Political Economy is based in Mumbai, India. The group publishes the journal Aspects of India's Economy and a range of research publications in English and Hindi. http://www.monthlyreview.org/0503rupe.htm I suggest you read the whole report, it will certainly give you a very much clearer and
[biofuel] pagans
Why are Pagans and Athiests lumped in the same phrase? Pagans wer what the Roman soldiers called people who lived in the country and were familiar with the forces of nature that helped grow plants etc. still are and do. check out the rituals and practices of the Grange. The god of the Jews,btw, evolved from an old Sumarian god of war, who liked blood sacrifices, especialy the enemys.. H. Destruction and Living Hell are, according to this map, just down the road a piece. I can't tell how far, since the scale of the map fluctuates. The Mogambo Guru, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma...
x-charset ISO-8859-1Greg, The black and white or color film was the punchline of the joke. The real heart of the matter is the pondering of not only the morality of the potential rescuer but the practices of the person in peril and how those practices give cause for such a choice to exist in the first place. Sounds as if you need to bury that guilt instead of letting it rule you any longer. No point in crying over spilled lager any longer than a sincere lament. As for born again? Done there. Been that. Found out that I was born right the first time and that the applied morality of the church was in contradiction to the written word. Seems that most christians can't discern that there is no difference between putting a bullet in someone's brain and knowingly poisoning their drinking water with a multi-million dollar paper mill or PCBs or mercury or any other that in turn slowly kills others. They can't fathom how economic policies that pay for their Sunday go to meetin' clothes and high living can steal food out of the mouths and healthcare out of the communities of distant peoples. Hell..., forget distant. Just look across any American town or city. And if it's not a pulp mill or the like, it's an insurance company, pharmaceutical company or any other grossly obese and/or immorally opportunistic human activity. Slow death vs fast death. None of them could see that jobs, tax base and freedom as defined by corporatism and capitalism don't justify murder. So no. Much as Hakan pointed out, I see little difference between a dictator and a facilitator who circumvents or eradicates policies that erode and outright destroy human life, all the while hiding behind a religious veil. To hell with the we're all fallible human beings crap as a buffer and excuse. We're all human. But we're all to be responsible for what we know. Bush is a willing participant in the devastation that he facilitates and could care less - or at least believes that it's okay as he'll supposedly be forgiven for it. A lot of good his being forgiven is going to do those people who's lives are destroyed in the process of his folly. In any event, his brand of religion as exercised in his position makes him a danger to all those who exist at present and have yet to exist - Buddhist, Trappist, Amish, Baptist, Agnostic and Anarchist alike - which is in itself an indictment every time he wraps himself in the right to life flag. Simply put? He's a hippocrit, a fraud and a con who does not serve the best interests of any people other than those who are as care-less as he. That's not an opinion. That's the conviction of hundreds of millions, among which hundreds if not thousands are theologians. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... It's actually very simple. I am Christian enough to honestly believe that I would at least try to save everyone, BUT, I know that I am human enough to have my doubts, about saving a few people. Examples: My ex brother-in-law, that abused my sister. A few people that have stabbed me in the back / ripped me off, after I have helped them. There is my moral dilemma, I know that I should forgive and help them, but, I don't know if I actually would, and that bothers the heck out of me. You can laugh if you want ( actually it appears you did ), but, it's not easy or fun going through life, knowing that you could have made the difference, but, didn't. I know it from personal experience, that it is not the least bit funny. So all the crap about the choice about color or black and white film is nothing but fecal matter, that is not even fit for use as fertilizer. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 21:30 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Greg, most anyone else. ??? That's telling. Care to elaborate on the qualifiers? :-) ... Chuckle, chuckle...smurfsnort I believe a good number have already placed Shrub a little lower on the food chain than perhaps you would. I'm just curious as to how low of a piece of goat scrod someone would have to be to qualify for lack of assistance. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Neither, I would try and save him, just like I would most anyone else. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 19:11 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... So. COLOR OR BLACK WHITE? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel
[biofuel] Moral Dilemma
Hi maniacal engineer, what about Madeleine invited Saddam to invade Kuwait,when asked about the US Policy concerning an Invasion she replied,The US have no policy on this Sadam was stupid enough to fall in this Trap and the US had the pretext for going in the middle east (where they had lost theire influence after the Iranrevolution! Fritz in case any of you have forgotten, Saddam actually did invade his neighbors, and yes the US did support him (to the extent that we provided 3% of his armaments during the iran/iraq war) aginst what we viewed as a more serious threat, namely radical islamism (no that isn't a typo). But when he moved against kuwait it didn't seem prudent to do nothing, since he had a proven track record of aggression. so we kicked him out of kuwait and then instituted sanctions if he violated the ceasefire- which he did. Ideally we would have gone back in a year or two later to enforce the cease fire terms, but by that time it was a new adminisration so it didnt happen. had we done so there would have been only a fraction of the deaths related to sanctions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Moral Dilemma
x-charset ISO-8859-1Personally I would do what I could to save him. (Disclaimer)I am not advocating the following but instead highly condemn it...That said if the I wouldn't save him bunch thinks that the world would be better without him then what does that make you for joyfully posting about his demise and yet sitting by the wayside content to the bravato at hand? I can enjoy good humor but black humor is lousy fun in this P.C. world. Refresh my memory again, we're allowed to bash middle class white heterosexual males that live in the country, speak with accents, drive SUV's, own firearms and have more than two children. Oh yeah that's it, thanks! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
