RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel
--- dermot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks everybody for the replies. I mixed the methoxide with the wvo by gradually letting the pump suck it from a carboy as the wvo was being pumped through the processor. I'm fairly happy that there was good mixing because of the tests I did after I made the biodiesel. Remember that I reprocessed the biodiesel a second time and got no glycerine fall out indicating that all the product had reacted. I also did the share test and got a clear separation. I'm fairly sure at this stage that my problem is that too vigorous pumping produces mayonnaise even if the biodiesel has reacted fully. I am going to try another 50 litre batch and I will use a motorised stirrer this time. Has anybody got any idea about the diameter of impellor I should use and what rpm to use? I'm going to use a 200 litre plastic barrel to do the washing. Thanks everybody again for the help/suggestions. Dermot Hello Dermot, I think that using an agitator that turnes at 30 to 60 r.p.m. should work nicely. I am building a processor with a wash tank with over 400 u.s. gallon capacity and am using a bulk tank adgitator I purchased used from a dairy farm supplier.My adgit ator is aprox. 14 inches wide and 14 inches high.If your system is smaller just down size some.With an adgitator you can let it run as long as it takes to mix the biodiesel and water wash. I will be setting mine up with a timer so it will shut itself off when it's done. Good Luck|| -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 September 2004 10:58 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel But isnt the mixing period long enough? Say you mix for a whole day would it still be uneven? What im really asking is this caused because of mechanical factors or because a chemical reaction takes place, too much methroxide exposed to too little oil... Just trying to get a better understanding of things. Thanks for your time -- original message -- Subject:[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 01st September 2004 7:9:3 The idea of methoxide mixing is to introduce it at a rythm that will ensure even distribution throughout, so if you jet it all in at once it might not get evenly distributed and that might leave some oil unreacted, IMO. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about when you first mix the methoxide with the veggie oil, is there such a thing as mixing them to violently because of having to powerful a pump? Greg H. - Original Message - From: dermot To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 07:03 Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel I think, as you rightly suggest, that my pump is too powerful and that the mixing is too violent. Thanks for you input. Regards Dermot -Original Message- From: bioveging [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 September 2004 02:46 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel OK, I am no pro at this but even I can see a couple of points. Why bring it up to 130C ? Did it need dewatering or was it just a precaution? A sample test in a saucepan brought up to temp would have confirmed it one way or the other. I have made BD using some really crappy WVO which titrated at 10gr/liter and washed it using a paint stirrer and it tunred out OK. The procesing temp is too high in your case.65C will boil off the methanol which goes vapour at about 64C. Your processing temp should not be over 55C (130F). Too high or too low will result in poor end product.( I know, I've done it) 2HP pump huh? Wow ! Bet that thing hums huh? Might be a bit too much for such a small amount though, although someone else will have to comment of that as I am not in the know on it. There has been talk of a 1/2 HP pump for 200gal (757liter) going for half an hour and oing the job. Are you using a good scale? How about PH measuring method? All potential variables that can cause trouble. I am thinking though that your biggest problem had to do with the processing temperature being too high causing a loss of methanol. Anyway, that is only mytake on it, maybe someone with more experience can be more helpful L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dermot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would appreciate any suggestions or help from people who have experience with washing biodiesel by using a pump. I have tried unsuccessfully to do it and have ended up with about 50% mayonnaise. Here's what I did: I heated the used oil, which was over a year old, to 130 degrees centigrade for
Re: [biofuel] Old propane tanks
Thought about that one.The best one I have heard so far, is to get the proper connectors, and hook the 100 lb bottle to the propane grill that came with the house ( I could be grilling for a year with what's left in the 2 100 lb, bottles ) or rent an industrial propane heater and just burn it off. I will admit, those little propane hand torches come in real handy, maybe I could find the connectors and hose to use the big bottle with the little torch. That way I could use the propane to braze the parts together to make the BioDiesel reactor, it is not like I don't have a couple of extra of the 100 lb bottles, LOL. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 15:23 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Old propane tanks I have used this to refill small camping cylinders. This process needs to be performed in a well ventillated area, away from flames, etc. Perform this at your own risk. If you can get the valve open, it may be possible to decant into another empty bottle. To achieve this, it would be necessary to make a link pipe/fittings so the tank to be emptied is upside down over the tank to be filled. The liquid gas will then flow from the top bottle, into the bottom bottle, once both valves are open, the vent is loosened, the liquid propane will flow into the lower bottle. regards Doug [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel and biodeisel
I'm looking to purchase a new(or newer Jeep) in the near future. I've seen that Jeep is now coming out with a new diesel version of the Liberty. My co-worker said that diesel car produce more pollution then regular gasoline vechiles. I thought it was opposite, which is true? Also, I live in an urban area and would like to eventually wean off gas and into biodiesel. Are biodiesel sources in urban areas (particularly in the DC metro area) readily available? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: pump size
The one many people here use, and is also the one I use, is found at Northern Tools: www.northerntool.com Item# 109955 It is 110V and 1/2HP. This is my primary reactor pump. I am going to try out a Pony Pump from the same place, Item# 109730, that I just got tonight as a wash pump and filter pump (the one I use to get the BD from the wash tank through the filters after it's final wash) 1/3HP should work fine, IMHO, and the 1 inch connections are the same as the Clear Water Pump mentioned above.Just do the necessary plumbing and have at it. The only problem you will have to be aware of is if you use NaOH as a catalyst as it may want to harden as it cools and this can be a problem in pumps and the lines. I have done away with the potential of this happening, after reading comments from Todd and G-Mark about isolating the pump and draining the lines once processing is complete. I have successfully done this with my unit and as an unexpected bonus it also provided me with a sample for quality testing while the main mix settles. There should be pics and explanations available as soon as the schedule permits. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Between all the exchange between some of our members, I lost sight of the ideal pump size strength for mixing a 45 gallon drum of home brew (filled to 30 gal) Right now I have a 1/3 horse 1 pump. I am about to connect to my reactor. Is this in-/overly/perfectly adequate? Pierre Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Source for rapeseed SVO
Does anyone have a good source for rapeseed oil preferably in the Northwest. Thanks Scott Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
I have a question that some of you might be able to shed some light on. As well as having an interest in biofuels, I also have an interest in Third World development issues and other technologies, including Solar energy collection and storage. So when trying to find an 'energy solution' for a remote village for example, there are a number of possible options. Of course, you have to ask, what problem are you looking to find a solution for? For the purposes of this post, I will assume that we are trying to provide electricity to power refrigerators, lighting, miscellaneous equipment such as telephones and computers (even remote villages can have satellite connections to the internet these days!). This would be a light load and not include industrial use nor electrical heating/cooking. So I will propose two solutions, both of which are used in various places: 1) Grow an oil crop, use it to power a diesel generator 2) Install photovoltaic solar panels and use a battery system to store the energy overnight Now I'm trying to get an understanding of the pros and cons of these two approaches, and which would be better for a particular location. The issues I have thought of so far are the following: -- Photovoltaics and batteries are expensive in terms of capital outlay, whereas biofuels are cheap to 'install'. Photovoltaic systems have a conversion efficiency of ~10% of the solar energy, whereas biofuels have a conversion efficiency of about 1% Photovoltaic systems require more specialist knowledge to maintain, whereas biofuels require less. Photovoltaics require low labour input once they are installed, whereas biofuels require planting, harvesting, processing etc.. Photovoltaic systems can store only small amounts of energy over short timescales, whereas you can store large quantities of oil for a long time Photovoltaics make less sense when sunshine levels are highly unpredictable, whereas biofuel crops are not significantly affected by a few gloomy days Photovoltaics require less land to install than oil crops, because of their higher conversion efficiency. -- I realise that this is an oversimplification of the issues, and I'm trying to gain a deeper understanding of the secondary issues. So my specific questions are: 1) What are the implications of manufacturing Solar collectors, batteries, electronic control equipment and so forth in terms of energy use, toxic materials (e.g. lead in batteries), sustainability? How does this compare with manufacturing a diesel generating system? 2) Biofuels are often produced from crops that are grown in an unsustainable manner. What are the effects on biodiversity of this? How can this be counteracted? Are there any comparable environmental issues in the manufacture of solar systems? 3) Do the levels of expertise required to install and maintain a solar system make it inappropriate for use in remote villages? 4) Am I correct in assuming that the best (cheapest over all) solution for a Diesel generator in such situations is to use SVO (straight vegetable oil) with a preheating system, rather than converting it to biodiesel? 5) What are the effects on electricity usage patterns for each type of supply? For example, if people know that their battery system can only store a fixed amount that won't be replenished until the next day, are they more efficiency conscious than if they know their supply won't be replenished until next year's harvest? My gut feeling is that due to the higher conversion efficiency of solar panels, these would make a better overall solution for providing electricity than growing biofuels, with less environmental impact overall. However the high capital cost may rule this solution out for smaller villages. (Of course if you are using the energy for transport, then biofuels are much better because the energy can easily be stored and transported over long timescales. But that is not what I'm interested in here). Does anyone have any other information, opinions, experience of these types of systems? Have I overlooked any significant arguments on either side? I may soon have an opportunity to visit a remote solar installation that is backed up with a Diesel generator (as far as I know using petrodiesel) so wish to find out as much as possible beforehand. Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives:
[biofuel] Re: Diesel and biodeisel
I believe you will find even though diesel may smoke somewhat more than petrol that the actual emmissions are less toxic with standard diesel than there are with petrol. That said, yes there is a source near you where biodiesel can easily be found, it is in your garage :) Learn to make your own, it is not that difficult, although it requires some dedication to the task and determination to do it right. All the information you need can be had via http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html and the members of this list are always happy to offer any technical help when you run into snags (and there will be some), so check out the procedure, have at a test batch to get a feel for it and select the type of reactor you want to make and go to it. Don't try to cut corners but rather keep at it methodiccally and you will be able to do it. I did, and am VERY happy that I did at that. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, J Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking to purchase a new(or newer Jeep) in the near future. I've seen that Jeep is now coming out with a new diesel version of the Liberty. My co-worker said that diesel car produce more pollution then regular gasoline vechiles. I thought it was opposite, which is true? Also, I live in an urban area and would like to eventually wean off gas and into biodiesel. Are biodiesel sources in urban areas (particularly in the DC metro area) readily available? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hi Peggy, Do you have any reference or web links to the process? It would be another interesting area to look at. Hi Peter, Just got back. I think that Cambodia is a really good target. Since as you said there's no oil refinery there. My initial gut feeling was that BD can be developed in Vietnam also. But I have since found out that Vietname has just constructed an oil refinery and it should begin operational soon. I hope that your venture in Cambodia will be successful. Do keep us updated. God Bless, Caleb --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you. Yes I live about 30 minutes north of Bangkok. I have lived here for over 10 years. I am a techno type, with experience in many areas (electronic circuit design, mechanical machine design, pcb board manufacturing, analysis laboratory). The thing about renewable energy is it almost never pays the bills. Unfortunately, the people most interested in renewable energy are cheap charlies (sorry list members). That includes me. I have always had a gut
[biofuel] OT Estate planning
Greetings, Garth and I are trying to figure out what to do with our American estate if something should happen to us. Our family is taken care of with our Canadian assets, so we have some finances that would be looking for a good home. We have decided where some of it should go, but we are having trouble thinking of worthy places to leave it. I would like to hear suggestions from the members of this list as to where they would leave the money and why they would pick that place. This discussion could be off list, if this is not a topic of interest to most, but I do believe that trying to make this world a better place is what this list is all about. I don't have to be here to do so. Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] pump size
Pierre, Use what you tools you have and adjust your reaction time accordingly. If the manufacturer's specs are available to you, check the rated gph of the pump at 3' of head pressure. Then multiply that volume by ~60% due to reductions caused by pumping a fluid far more viscous than water, which is what the specs will probably refer to. Divide that volume by the volume in the reactor and you've got a very crude guestimate of the number of turnovers per hour in your reactor. To judge an appropriate reaction time, pull an exact amount of fluid (200 ml would suffice) out of the reaction stream every half-hour or hour after an arbitrary initial ~1 hour reaction period. Presuming that the contents of the reactor are kept homogenous from the pump flow, the volume of the glycerol cocktail that settles out of each sample will give you a fair gauge as to when your reaction completed. The suggestion would be to continue the reaction for ~1/2 hour beyond the point where your glyc cocktail volume stabilized. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 5:26 PM Subject: [biofuel] pump size Between all the exchange between some of our members, I lost sight of the ideal pump size strength for mixing a 45 gallon drum of home brew (filled to 30 gal) Right now I have a 1/3 horse 1 pump. I am about to connect to my reactor. Is this in-/overly/perfectly adequate? Pierre Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: pump size
L, The only problem you will have to be aware of is if you use NaOH as a catalyst as it may want to harden as it cools and this can be a problem in pumps and the lines. I have done away with the potential of this happening, after reading comments from Todd and G-Mark about isolating the pump and draining the lines once processing is complete. I have successfully done this with my unit and as an unexpected bonus it also provided me with a sample for quality testing while the main mix settles. You cannot rely upon a sample being pulled from the pump as being an accurate sampling. While the pump may be circulating fluid at what appears to be sufficient volume to achieve homogeneity, glycerol remains heavier than the esters and the pump is continually pulling off the bottom. The reality could easily be that you're pulling off a higher ratio of the glyc coctail via the pump sample than you might from a top or mid-range sample. The fuel portion should theoretically be similar, but the glyc to fuel ratios may be different. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: pump size The one many people here use, and is also the one I use, is found at Northern Tools: www.northerntool.com Item# 109955 It is 110V and 1/2HP. This is my primary reactor pump. I am going to try out a Pony Pump from the same place, Item# 109730, that I just got tonight as a wash pump and filter pump (the one I use to get the BD from the wash tank through the filters after it's final wash) 1/3HP should work fine, IMHO, and the 1 inch connections are the same as the Clear Water Pump mentioned above.Just do the necessary plumbing and have at it. The only problem you will have to be aware of is if you use NaOH as a catalyst as it may want to harden as it cools and this can be a problem in pumps and the lines. I have done away with the potential of this happening, after reading comments from Todd and G-Mark about isolating the pump and draining the lines once processing is complete. I have successfully done this with my unit and as an unexpected bonus it also provided me with a sample for quality testing while the main mix settles. There should be pics and explanations available as soon as the schedule permits. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Between all the exchange between some of our members, I lost sight of the ideal pump size strength for mixing a 45 gallon drum of home brew (filled to 30 gal) Right now I have a 1/3 horse 1 pump. I am about to connect to my reactor. Is this in-/overly/perfectly adequate? Pierre Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
Donald, One very important part for biofuels that you forgot, is the positive effect on job creation and the village economy. It is possible reselling and creation of income for the village. Maybe the following can give you more ideas. http://www.undp.org/seed/energy/contents.html Biofuel will also open up the possibility to use it for transportation, work, water pumping, etc. Its labor input is not a negative, it is a positive, since it is local. Hakan At 11:20 AM 9/3/2004, you wrote: I have a question that some of you might be able to shed some light on. As well as having an interest in biofuels, I also have an interest in Third World development issues and other technologies, including Solar energy collection and storage. So when trying to find an 'energy solution' for a remote village for example, there are a number of possible options. Of course, you have to ask, what problem are you looking to find a solution for? For the purposes of this post, I will assume that we are trying to provide electricity to power refrigerators, lighting, miscellaneous equipment such as telephones and computers (even remote villages can have satellite connections to the internet these days!). This would be a light load and not include industrial use nor electrical heating/cooking. So I will propose two solutions, both of which are used in various places: 1) Grow an oil crop, use it to power a diesel generator 2) Install photovoltaic solar panels and use a battery system to store the energy overnight Now I'm trying to get an understanding of the pros and cons of these two approaches, and which would be better for a particular location. The issues I have thought of so far are the following: -- Photovoltaics and batteries are expensive in terms of capital outlay, whereas biofuels are cheap to 'install'. Photovoltaic systems have a conversion efficiency of ~10% of the solar energy, whereas biofuels have a conversion efficiency of about 1% Photovoltaic systems require more specialist knowledge to maintain, whereas biofuels require less. Photovoltaics require low labour input once they are installed, whereas biofuels require planting, harvesting, processing etc.. Photovoltaic systems can store only small amounts of energy over short timescales, whereas you can store large quantities of oil for a long time Photovoltaics make less sense when sunshine levels are highly unpredictable, whereas biofuel crops are not significantly affected by a few gloomy days Photovoltaics require less land to install than oil crops, because of their higher conversion efficiency. -- I realise that this is an oversimplification of the issues, and I'm trying to gain a deeper understanding of the secondary issues. So my specific questions are: 1) What are the implications of manufacturing Solar collectors, batteries, electronic control equipment and so forth in terms of energy use, toxic materials (e.g. lead in batteries), sustainability? How does this compare with manufacturing a diesel generating system? 2) Biofuels are often produced from crops that are grown in an unsustainable manner. What are the effects on biodiversity of this? How can this be counteracted? Are there any comparable environmental issues in the manufacture of solar systems? 3) Do the levels of expertise required to install and maintain a solar system make it inappropriate for use in remote villages? 4) Am I correct in assuming that the best (cheapest over all) solution for a Diesel generator in such situations is to use SVO (straight vegetable oil) with a preheating system, rather than converting it to biodiesel? 5) What are the effects on electricity usage patterns for each type of supply? For example, if people know that their battery system can only store a fixed amount that won't be replenished until the next day, are they more efficiency conscious than if they know their supply won't be replenished until next year's harvest? My gut feeling is that due to the higher conversion efficiency of solar panels, these would make a better overall solution for providing electricity than growing biofuels, with less environmental impact overall. However the high capital cost may rule this solution out for smaller villages. (Of course if you are using the energy for transport, then biofuels are much better because the energy can easily be stored and transported over long timescales. But that is not what I'm interested in here). Does anyone have any other information, opinions, experience of these types of systems? Have I overlooked any significant arguments on either side? I may soon have an opportunity to visit a remote solar installation that is backed up with a Diesel generator (as far as I know using petrodiesel) so wish to find out as much as possible beforehand. Regards, Donald Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hello Peter, The study was done in Hawaii and I will have to search in my notes to send the reference paper location. I looked in my technical references and the complete reference was not there. (It was inserted later by one of my colleagues). It's somewhere, but will take a little time to unearth. In the meantime, you may find it on the Internet if you look for a Hawaii study on fuel ethanol using paper. Our researchers are working with various biochemical innovations to further enhance the process. I'll post our good news when we have a proven process. Peggy Hi Peggy, Do you have any reference or web links to the process? It would be another interesting area to look at. Hi Peter, Just got back. I think that Cambodia is a really good target. Since as you said there's no oil refinery there. My initial gut feeling was that BD can be developed in Vietnam also. But I have since found out that Vietname has just constructed an oil refinery and it should begin operational soon. I hope that your venture in Cambodia will be successful. Do keep us updated. God Bless, Caleb --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your
[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel
I've been wondering... has anyone tried an old box fan motor with a paint stirrer on the end instead of a drill? I thought the torque handling capabilities of the drill might be overkill, and something with lower torque strength might get the job done. -= Jay =- --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have done this very thing with a 40 liter batch and washed it in a poly drum (200liter) using a standard paint stirrer on the end of a standard drill and got excellent fuel from it (it's all gone now thanks to the Benz) :) Tonight I am going to acquire a Pony Pump and once that gets set up I will let you know how it worked (or didn't). The drill-pumps are not doing very well, they keep burning out. I have one that draws water and is still operational but the two I was using, one for wash and the other for transfer of BD through filters crapped on me, so it's $ and Pony Pump time. Stir mixing works well, but be very cautious of the methanol fumes. Make it fumeless (closed) if possible. If not do it outside in a cross wind. Washing with a paint mixer works very well and allows for longer settling after washing than bubble or mist washing does as well as it's other advantages. L. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, dermot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks everybody for the replies. I mixed the methoxide with the wvo by gradually letting the pump suck it from a carboy as the wvo was being pumped through the processor. I'm fairly happy that there was good mixing because of the tests I did after I made the biodiesel. Remember that I reprocessed the biodiesel a second time and got no glycerine fall out indicating that all the product had reacted. I also did the share test and got a clear separation. I'm fairly sure at this stage that my problem is that too vigorous pumping produces mayonnaise even if the biodiesel has reacted fully. I am going to try another 50 litre batch and I will use a motorised stirrer this time. Has anybody got any idea about the diameter of impellor I should use and what rpm to use? I'm going to use a 200 litre plastic barrel to do the washing. Thanks everybody again for the help/suggestions. Dermot -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 September 2004 10:58 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel But isnt the mixing period long enough? Say you mix for a whole day would it still be uneven? What im really asking is this caused because of mechanical factors or because a chemical reaction takes place, too much methroxide exposed to too little oil... Just trying to get a better understanding of things. Thanks for your time -- original message -- Subject:[biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 01st September 2004 7:9:3 The idea of methoxide mixing is to introduce it at a rythm that will ensure even distribution throughout, so if you jet it all in at once it might not get evenly distributed and that might leave some oil unreacted, IMO. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about when you first mix the methoxide with the veggie oil, is there such a thing as mixing them to violently because of having to powerful a pump? Greg H. - Original Message - From: dermot To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 07:03 Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel I think, as you rightly suggest, that my pump is too powerful and that the mixing is too violent. Thanks for you input. Regards Dermot -Original Message- From: bioveging [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 September 2004 02:46 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Pump Washing of biodiesel OK, I am no pro at this but even I can see a couple of points. Why bring it up to 130C ? Did it need dewatering or was it just a precaution? A sample test in a saucepan brought up to temp would have confirmed it one way or the other. I have made BD using some really crappy WVO which titrated at 10gr/liter and washed it using a paint stirrer and it tunred out OK. The procesing temp is too high in your case.65C will boil off the methanol which goes vapour at about 64C. Your processing temp should not be over 55C (130F). Too high or too low will result in poor end product.( I know, I've done it) 2HP pump huh? Wow ! Bet that thing hums huh? Might be a bit too much for such a small amount though, although someone else will have to comment of that as I am not in the know on it. There has been talk of a 1/2 HP pump for
Re: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
Hi Hakan, Donald Donald, One very important part for biofuels that you forgot, is the positive effect on job creation and the village economy. It is possible reselling and creation of income for the village. Maybe the following can give you more ideas. http://www.undp.org/seed/energy/contents.html Biofuel will also open up the possibility to use it for transportation, work, water pumping, etc. Its labor input is not a negative, it is a positive, since it is local. Hakan That's quite right, Hakan. It's basic to Appropriate Technology development to make maximum use of local resources and reduce imported technology (or imported anything) to a minimum, preferably to zero. Local resources include local know-how. Rural villagers don't know from PVs but they do know how to grow things, they know their local crops, and the local plants and trees too even if they don't grow them. This is one reason that local crops almost always do better than crops imported from outside the community, even though the imports might be much higher-yielding (in theory), especially if the object is community development, not just production. Even when overall production is higher, it might not benefit the community - there are many cases of higher production having the opposite effect, leading to increased hunger for instance, even to peasants losing their land. Yet such projects are often hailed as a success because the yields were higher, never mind all the babies that get chucked out with the bathwater. Another important aspect is that the selection of local crops and local knowledge and skills provides further opportunities to involve the community in the decision-making process, which is also a key factor in the success of a community development project. I could go on, but you can see how these factors favour a biofuels solution over PVs. Use of biofuels could mean the option of using a locally produced diesel motor in some cases, produced in the local region anyway if not in the village. Lister-type diesels, for instance, are still made locally in a number of 3rd World countries, and where they're not made there's often widespread familiarity with them. Local mechanics know how to handle them, and local or regional workshops can make parts for them. Oilseed presses and other equipment can also be produced locally. All of this benefits the local economy more than any totally imported technology could do, especially something high-tech like PVs, well beyond community reach. With PVs nothing is transferred except the narrow function of the technology itself, along with continued or increased dependence on outside sources. Then there's the question of battery renewal, and of what to do with the dead batteries. We've had some furious arguments about this here before. A guy named Jerry Dycus proposed PVs as a general solution to 3rd World power provision, and insisted against all reason that all batteries are recycled and it could not possibly cause problems. Even in the US, where it's rather doubtfully claimed that 97% of batteries are recycled, that still leaves about six million batteries a year that don't get recycled. 3rd World countries, especially rural areas, have no infrastructure for battery recycling. I've seen some really horrible things being done with dead batteries. In one case they were being ground up and sold to farmers as zinc fertiliser (the soils there were said to be short of zinc). Just think of that. Well, it wasn't just me, dear old Jerry argued with just about everyone. He got so angry he decided the whole list was anti-EVs, which it most certainly is not, but he started telling people we don't like EVs here, managing to wreck the EV discussions, and it still hasn't recovered. He was also sneering at people because there's lead in their computers. Very silly stuff. Anyway, never mind all that, the batteries are a question to be dealt with. Of course we're generalising here. The best we can do is to identify good operating principles - principles, not rules. Which turns out to be the better choice will depend on the circumstances in the particular village, which could easily turn any prior general conclusion on its head. Some more comments below... At 11:20 AM 9/3/2004, you wrote: I have a question that some of you might be able to shed some light on. As well as having an interest in biofuels, I also have an interest in Third World development issues and other technologies, including Solar energy collection and storage. So when trying to find an 'energy solution' for a remote village for example, there are a number of possible options. Of course, you have to ask, what problem are you looking to find a solution for? For the purposes of this post, I will assume that we are trying to provide electricity to power refrigerators, lighting, miscellaneous equipment such as telephones and computers (even remote villages can have satellite
Re: [biofuel] Diesel and biodeisel
I'm looking to purchase a new(or newer Jeep) in the near future. I've seen that Jeep is now coming out with a new diesel version of the Liberty. My co-worker said that diesel car produce more pollution then regular gasoline vechiles. I thought it was opposite, which is true? Also, I live in an urban area and would like to eventually wean off gas and into biodiesel. Are biodiesel sources in urban areas (particularly in the DC metro area) readily available? Hey welcome to teh list! Diesel cars pollute less in terms of greenhouse gases, VOCs and CO emmissions. They produce more NOx and PM pollutants. The choice is yours which is the bigger threast. I'm convinced its the VOCs and greenhouse gases. To answer your question about biodiesel...you cna run the new diesels oin it and it may or may not be readily available in DC. Here's a place to look and see if you ahve a public pump www.biodiesel.org Sorry can't make it hot. Certainly don't believe everything tehy tell you but its a start. Either way, it'll be expensive unless you brew your own, which is certainly not as hard as it sounds. If you follow the directions on JTF you should be able to make good biodiesel. Think the new diesel Libby will get 24-28MPG, but that's just a WAG. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Environmentalists Against War
Environmentalists Against War http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/index.php The difficult situation that the US is in can not be solved by waging more wars. The violence done in our name generates more violence and hatred against us. The solution arises from changing our attitudes about other people. We need to stop the theft of their resources and labor and begin to treat them with respect and dignity. RossCannon Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Question - efficiency of sunlight conversion
Donald (and all), I certainly don't have all the answers (maybe none), but it is a complex topic, and I can certainly muddy the waters a bit more. Comments inserted below. Donald Allwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question that some of you might be able to shed some light on. As well as having an interest in biofuels, I also have an interest in Third World development issues and other technologies, including Solar energy collection and storage. So when trying to find an 'energy solution' for a remote village for example, there are a number of possible options. Of course, you have to ask, what problem are you looking to find a solution for? For the purposes of this post, I will assume that we are trying to provide electricity to power refrigerators, lighting, miscellaneous equipment such as telephones and computers (even remote villages can have satellite connections to the internet these days!). This would be a light load and not include industrial use nor electrical heating/cooking. Let's think about the loads a bit, particularly refrigeration. In this case, we don't really need to store electricity, but coolth. So one approach would be to develop a solar-powered icebox. Have the PV panels run a conventional refrigeration unit when the sun is shining to make ice in the top of the icebox. A sensor can control a fan to pull air through the ice into the refrigerator when required to maintain temperature. Some electricity is still required for the fan (the sensor could be a simple bimetallic switch), but much less than for the compressor, so that would reduce electrical storage requirements significantly. So I will propose two solutions, both of which are used in various places: 1) Grow an oil crop, use it to power a diesel generator 2) Install photovoltaic solar panels and use a battery system to store the energy overnight Now I'm trying to get an understanding of the pros and cons of these two approaches, and which would be better for a particular location. The issues I have thought of so far are the following: -- Photovoltaics and batteries are expensive in terms of capital outlay, whereas biofuels are cheap to 'install'. Photovoltaic systems have a conversion efficiency of ~10% of the solar energy, whereas biofuels have a conversion efficiency of about 1% Photovoltaic systems require more specialist knowledge to maintain, whereas biofuels require less. Photovoltaics require low labour input once they are installed, whereas biofuels require planting, harvesting, processing etc.. Photovoltaic systems can store only small amounts of energy over short timescales, whereas you can store large quantities of oil for a long time Photovoltaics make less sense when sunshine levels are highly unpredictable, whereas biofuel crops are not significantly affected by a few gloomy days A small wind turbine is another option for renewable generation of electricity, and usually cheaper to install per watt-hour produced. Of course this assumes an appropriately windy place, just as PV assumes an appropriately sunny place. Another option is low-head hydro, if a suitable stream is nearby. Photovoltaics require less land to install than oil crops, because of their higher conversion efficiency. -- I realise that this is an oversimplification of the issues, and I'm trying to gain a deeper understanding of the secondary issues. So my specific questions are: 1) What are the implications of manufacturing Solar collectors, batteries, electronic control equipment and so forth in terms of energy use, toxic materials (e.g. lead in batteries), sustainability? How does this compare with manufacturing a diesel generating system? The batteries don't have to be lead-acid. For a remote, stationary application, I would seriously consider nickel-iron batteries (Edison cells). More expensive (mostly due to lower production I expect), but less toxic (there is a caustic electrolyte), and can be very long-lived, reducing the disposal/recycling issue considerably. 2) Biofuels are often produced from crops that are grown in an unsustainable manner. What are the effects on biodiversity of this? How can this be counteracted? Are there any comparable environmental issues in the manufacture of solar systems? 3) Do the levels of expertise required to install and maintain a solar system make it inappropriate for use in remote villages? PV panels are effectively non-repairable. Solid state controllers are also effectively non-repairable. However, in a simple installation (which can be fairly large), regulators are not really necessary, if someone is prepared to monitor the battery charge state on a daily basis (and do some discharging if the batteries are being overcharged). Batteries do require some maintenance, and replacement (typically every few years). However, installation and maintenance is certainly no more
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
See: Ethanol from cellulose http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose It's the sixth one in the list. Keith Hello Peter, The study was done in Hawaii and I will have to search in my notes to send the reference paper location. I looked in my technical references and the complete reference was not there. (It was inserted later by one of my colleagues). It's somewhere, but will take a little time to unearth. In the meantime, you may find it on the Internet if you look for a Hawaii study on fuel ethanol using paper. Our researchers are working with various biochemical innovations to further enhance the process. I'll post our good news when we have a proven process. Peggy Hi Peggy, Do you have any reference or web links to the process? It would be another interesting area to look at. Hi Peter, Just got back. I think that Cambodia is a really good target. Since as you said there's no oil refinery there. My initial gut feeling was that BD can be developed in Vietnam also. But I have since found out that Vietname has just constructed an oil refinery and it should begin operational soon. I hope that your venture in Cambodia will be successful. Do keep us updated. God Bless, Caleb --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
