RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
I work with animals using a variety of alternative approaches so I've gotten to know lots of them. I don't call myself an animal lover. I do find I have great respect for them as individuals. I sometimes find the human decision to judge animals as lesser .. because, based upon the tests we have devised, they can't quite muster enough to pass them .. but of course the humans keep raising the bar .. what I find telling is that .. at least to my knowledge .. there isn't a human I know of that has mastered WHALE or SPARROW as a language. .. so instead of lingering on simply the cruelty of the factory farm practice .. I'd like to also suggest looking at the spread of pollution .. both water, land, and air .. and the spread of dis-ease. This is one of the most gruesome practices in all respects. .. but .. I also find a strong similarity between factory farms and the practices of all corporations. The word fodder leaps to mind. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Bo Lozoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 19:46:35 -0500 Please friends, let's realize the problem with factory farms is factory farming -- not the discharge of wastes. There is no stretch of the imagination that can condone the torture, cruelty and insanity of raising food in that way. Ever been inside one? Please don't even respond to this e-mail unless you have, or at least have seen truthful film footage of how animals are raised and treated. I'd like to think that anyone interested in biofuels would be absolutely opposed to factory farming. The wastes are the least of the problems, in my view. Bo Lozoff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 05:24:15 +0900 http://www.alternet.org/story/21391 Cleaning Up Factory Farms By J.R. Pegg, Environment News Service. Posted March 2, 2005. The Bush administration thinks it's perfectly OK to let factory farms discharge waste into the nation's waters. A federal appeals court says the policy stinks. The Bush administration's regulations to limit water pollution from factory farms violate the Clean Water Act and must be revised, a federal appeals court ruled Monday. The court found the regulations failed to ensure that factory farms would be held accountable for discharging animal wastes into the nation's waters. The ruling, released Monday by a three judge panel of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, is a major victory for environmentalists who filed suit against the February 2003 rules. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., president of the Waterkeeper Alliance and an NRDC senior attorney, called the regulations the product of a conspiracy between a lawless industry and compliant public officials in cahoots to steal the public trust. I am grateful that the court has taken the government and the barons of corporate agriculture to the woodshed for a well-earned rebuke, Kennedy said. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which issued the rules, was not available for comment on the ruling. The decision continues a long-running battle over how to regulate factory farms - known as concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs). CAFOs have emerged as the dominant force in the modern production of agricultural livestock as the size of livestock operations has grown over the past two decades. These operations produce some 500 million tons of animal waste annually - disposal and storage of this waste presents serious risks to public health and the environment. CAFOs often over-apply liquid waste on land, which runs off into surface water, killing fish, spreading disease, and contaminating drinking water supplies. Waste can leak onto the land and into groundwater and drinking water supplies from the massive waste storage units on the farms. Three decades ago the U.S. Congress identified CAFOs as point sources of water pollution to be regulated under the Clean Water Act's water pollution permitting program. The 2003 rule aimed to implement that decision - it applies to some 15,500 livestock operations across the country. Large CAFOs are defined in the regulations as operations raising more than 1,000 cattle, 700 dairy cows, 2,500 pigs, 10,000 sheep, 125,000 chickens, 82,000 laying hens, or 55,000 turkeys in confinement. The regulations require these operations to apply for discharge permits under the Clean Water Act every five years and develop nutrient management plans to manage and limit pollution - or
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
on 3/7/05 1:41 PM, Chris Bennett at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way of counteracting the drawbacks associated with these (high IV) types of oils? I ask because I am currently producing biodiesel from a supply which consists of about 50% semi hydrogenated pourable vegetable oil (The container does not state which variety of oil it contains) and 50% soy bean oil. This thread is concerning me obviously with regards to the long term effects the fuel may be having on my engine. Polyunsaturated oils or their esters won't BURN any differently than completely saturated ones (well, minor difference in energy yield). They only become problematic if they sit around in your storage facility or fuel tank. The key to using them with confidence is to use them fast. If you can't guarantee that, you should avoid them -- i.e., that tank over there holds 100,000 gallons, and we've kept it full since 2007...! As long as you're doing this for yourself and you let your tank go nearly empty every so often, you're fine. Will any of the fuel system cleaning treatments available at most vehicle accessory shops have any effect on the buildups generated during combustion? The buildups only happen during sitting around, and they're more likely to clog your filter or jets than deposit in your cylinders. Just use it up fast -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Hello Keith ! Of course there is a possibility that unsaturated compounds interact in the lubricating oil, but if the engine«s combustion is proper, you do not have to expect big problems. But, there are other ways for the fuel to get in contact with the engine oil: It the engine is equipped with a row pump, with one pump element per injector, there is a possibility (due to construction error) that some of the fuel slips by the pump piston entering the engine oil. Some engine manufacturers refuse to acknowledge biodiesel, because once in the oil, it will not vaporise the way ordinary diesel engine fuel does. But the to be on the safe side, cut the oil change intervals by half, which is recommended by many engine manufacturers. Maybe you even can get Castrol to analyse samples of your oil and look for signs of polymerisation. You can safely assume that the EN 14214 is technically founded, although it has its shortcomings. I'm sure it's technically founded, but I wouldn't assume that it was not also subjected to political pressures. For info on me with a high iodine number, I advice you to enter: www.scanbio.org for further information about the products of ESTRA AS. Fish-oil biodiesel... but I can't read Swedish, apologies. Do you quote any research studies there on polymerisation that might support your statement that there is no practical difference for the consumer between biodiesel made with drying oils (high iodine numbers) and biodiesel made with oils with an iodine number around or under 120? Oils with an iodine number of around or under 120 are classified as semi-drying oils, and both soy and sunflower fall into this category, with rapeseed oil (canola) at the lower end of the range. Polymerise they do, if not quite as fast as linseed oil will (why it's used in paint), as well as fish oils - see, eg: Anti-rust Paint from Fish-Scraps http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/FishPaintJTF.pdf This is what Ken Provost said here recently about linseed oil biodiesel: Being a drying oil, it will crosslink eventually in the presence of oxygen, which will cause it to thicken. I have used linseed biodiesel in my car, but only as a minor constituent (plenty of soy esters, olive esters, etc. in addition to the linseed) and only when I was prepared to empty my tank quickly (eg, a long trip where I'd have to refill with petrodiesel halfway anyway). Fish oils can have a higher iodine # than linseed oil. How do you prevent fish-oil biodiesel from drying? Making biodiesel with it doesn't affect the degree of unsaturation. Do you hydrogenate the oil? That would help, but what does it do for the melting point? The semi-drying oils will also dry, but not as quickly. Oxidation and thermal stability are one of the concerns about biodiesel of the Fuel Injection Equipment (FIE) Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch). In their field trials with biodiesel they found increased dilution and polymerisation of engine sump oil. See: FIEM report http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Results from fleet tests in in Europe (Bosch) have shown that after 60,000 km even DIN compliant fuel can damage the fuel injection system through polymerisation. I know of one such case of injector pump damage through polymerised fuel after only 40,000 km on B100. I think that if the EU's EN 14214 standard was entirely tchnically founded it might have excluded rapeseed oil; instead it has an IV cut-off of 120 and stipulates quite strict Oxidation stability levels, the only biodiesel standard specification to do so (though Australia has now followed suit). That looks like a compromise that allows for rapeseed oil as a feedstock and tries to limit the damage. There seems to have been a lot of trade in biodiesel anti-oxidants in Europe since EN 14214 was announced. Some American companies are also starting to offer biodiesel anti-oxidants - what do they know about soy biodiesel that we don't know (but are trying to find out)? Best wishes Keith Best wishes Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Hello Jan Hello Stephan. The reason for Elsbett«s people (and several others) for rejecting soy bean oil is its high iodine number. As the case with fish oil, corn oil and several kinds of sunflower oil. A high iodine number is indicating that the oil may be chemically unstable due to its unsaturation level and therefore unsuitable as engine fuel both as SVO and BD. In other words, it polymerises - to quote Phillip Calais: Drying results from the double bonds (and sometimes triple bonds) in the unsaturated oil molecules being broken by atmospheric oxygen and being converted to peroxides. Cross-linking at this site can then
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
on 3/7/05 1:41 PM, Chris Bennett at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way of counteracting the drawbacks associated with these (high IV) types of oils? I ask because I am currently producing biodiesel from a supply which consists of about 50% semi hydrogenated pourable vegetable oil (The container does not state which variety of oil it contains) and 50% soy bean oil. This thread is concerning me obviously with regards to the long term effects the fuel may be having on my engine. Polyunsaturated oils or their esters won't BURN any differently than completely saturated ones (well, minor difference in energy yield). They only become problematic if they sit around in your storage facility or fuel tank. The key to using them with confidence is to use them fast. If you can't guarantee that, you should avoid them -- i.e., that tank over there holds 100,000 gallons, and we've kept it full since 2007...! As long as you're doing this for yourself and you let your tank go nearly empty every so often, you're fine. Will any of the fuel system cleaning treatments available at most vehicle accessory shops have any effect on the buildups generated during combustion? The buildups only happen during sitting around, and they're more likely to clog your filter or jets than deposit in your cylinders. Just use it up fast -K On the other hand, it doesn't take very long for it to oxidise after brewing, especially if it's been bubble-washed. In one test some bubble-washed homebrew had oxidised well beyond the EU limit after only a week, and well beyond the abilities of anti-oxidants to stop it hardening. Use it fast, yes, and/or use an anti-oxidant. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Best WVO for GM Dura-max
Thanks for the heads up, Stuart. Mine has floor shift 4x4, maybe this is OK? Will def look into the pump mounted driver issue. j hajeski - Original Message - From: Stuart Kreitman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Best WVO for GM Dura-max B: I have a '97 gmc 6.5l td / k2500 suburban. dunno about wvo in it, but I can talk to you about 2 killer issues on these trucks: fuel pump failure and 4x4 failure. re the fuel pump, SYMPTOM: stalling at stoplights or even on highway for no apparent reason. CAUSE: The pump-mounted-driver, or PMD. this box is primarly 2 large power transistors that are unfortunately mounted-on-the-pump, which lives under the intake manifold and is subject to high heat. The electronics get overcooked. CURE: not $400, more like $40. Find the guy on ebay selling take-off pmd's for $20 each. Buy 2 or more. Disconnect and route the pmd harness to the side of the intake so that the PMD can live outside. I was a dope and rr'd the manifold, but given a second chance, I'd get flashlights, dental mirrors and slightly stiff wire to finess the harness through. Scrounge a good sized heatsink from a really old PC. Or, hit me up for one of a stack of 12v fan/heatsink combos that I scrounged from the company dumpster. Get heatsink compound from radio shack or the like. 4x4: SYMPTOM: pushbutton system not engaging/disengaging: problems range from minor to psychotic. I'm in the psychotic stage, but i have a possible slick cure on the way. skk Busyditch wrote: Hello list members I am now the owner of 2 diesel vehicles. My trusty Golf TDi (B20 only, for now)has been joined by a 1995 Chevy 2500 pickup with the 6.5 liter Duramax TurboDiesel. I intend on converting to WVO using the Greasecar kit, mainly because I like the 1 minute purge feature. I was wondering if any members have experience with this engine using WVO, and if there are any problems to converting to WVO. Also I need to know what kind of WVO is recommended to use, as I have a wide variety of restaurants here to choose from. And if there are issues to what kind of processing I use on my WVO to make it friendly to my truck. Thanks to all who suppport this list, looking forward to becoming fossil free. j hajeski ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
I don't call myself an animal lover. I do find I have great respect for them as individuals. Come on girl. Admit it. Yes you are :-) and your existance would be much poorer without them, as would everyone's. Most just don't realize it. Might you not need to let the professional facade slip a skosh and allow that respect to manifest itself as affection just jumping to be unpenned?. Todd Swearingen Bunny luvin', frog huggin', dirt worshipin', respector of trees :-) - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms Well said. I work with animals using a variety of alternative approaches so I've gotten to know lots of them. I don't call myself an animal lover. I do find I have great respect for them as individuals. I sometimes find the human decision to judge animals as lesser .. because, based upon the tests we have devised, they can't quite muster enough to pass them .. but of course the humans keep raising the bar .. what I find telling is that .. at least to my knowledge .. there isn't a human I know of that has mastered WHALE or SPARROW as a language. .. so instead of lingering on simply the cruelty of the factory farm practice .. I'd like to also suggest looking at the spread of pollution .. both water, land, and air .. and the spread of dis-ease. This is one of the most gruesome practices in all respects. .. but .. I also find a strong similarity between factory farms and the practices of all corporations. The word fodder leaps to mind. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: Bo Lozoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 19:46:35 -0500 Please friends, let's realize the problem with factory farms is factory farming -- not the discharge of wastes. There is no stretch of the imagination that can condone the torture, cruelty and insanity of raising food in that way. Ever been inside one? Please don't even respond to this e-mail unless you have, or at least have seen truthful film footage of how animals are raised and treated. I'd like to think that anyone interested in biofuels would be absolutely opposed to factory farming. The wastes are the least of the problems, in my view. Bo Lozoff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 05:24:15 +0900 http://www.alternet.org/story/21391 Cleaning Up Factory Farms By J.R. Pegg, Environment News Service. Posted March 2, 2005. The Bush administration thinks it's perfectly OK to let factory farms discharge waste into the nation's waters. A federal appeals court says the policy stinks. The Bush administration's regulations to limit water pollution from factory farms violate the Clean Water Act and must be revised, a federal appeals court ruled Monday. The court found the regulations failed to ensure that factory farms would be held accountable for discharging animal wastes into the nation's waters. The ruling, released Monday by a three judge panel of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, is a major victory for environmentalists who filed suit against the February 2003 rules. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., president of the Waterkeeper Alliance and an NRDC senior attorney, called the regulations the product of a conspiracy between a lawless industry and compliant public officials in cahoots to steal the public trust. I am grateful that the court has taken the government and the barons of corporate agriculture to the woodshed for a well-earned rebuke, Kennedy said. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), which issued the rules, was not available for comment on the ruling. The decision continues a long-running battle over how to regulate factory farms - known as concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs). CAFOs have emerged as the dominant force in the modern production of agricultural livestock as the size of livestock operations has grown over the past two decades. These operations produce some 500 million tons of animal waste annually - disposal and storage of this waste presents serious risks to public health and the environment. CAFOs often over-apply liquid waste on land, which runs off into surface water, killing fish, spreading disease, and contaminating drinking water supplies. Waste can leak onto the land and into groundwater and drinking water supplies from the massive waste storage units on the farms. Three
Re: [Biofuel] factory farms vs. large cities
Mike - interesting comments. Earlier in my career, I worked as a Field Energy Engineer and was assigned beef, poultry, dairy market sector including Abattoirs, Slaughterhouses, Meat Packers, Poultry Farms, et al. I also handled the sewage and water treatment market sector for about six years. It was interesting experience. I visited all these facilities inside and out. I can provide additional comment if needed. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure factory farms are different than large cities, but not when it comes to waste. If you think the waste from 125,000 animals is a problem, try dealing with the waste from 10,000,000 humans in one metro area. No soil type is capable of handling that much waste, in any form. If the consentration of cattle on too few acres is bad, why promote the concentration of humans in cities? Mikem Please friends, let's realize the problem with factory farms is factory farming -- not the discharge of wastes. There is no stretch of the imagination that can condone the torture, cruelty and insanity of raising food in that way. Ever been inside one? Please don't even respond to this e-mail unless you have, or at least have seen truthful film footage of how animals are raised and treated. I'd like to think that anyone interested in biofuels would be absolutely opposed to factory farming. The wastes are the least of the problems, in my view. Bo Lozoff ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad news for Diesel driver
Audi, Honda, Volvo, VW and others have been using interference designs for over 25 years. In fact, most high compression engines are interference designs. (Reply) Well why not! It is a great way to sell parts, make profit and burn fossil fuel.. It would change if there was proper consumer legislation and the offending companies had to pay the repair bill when engines designed with interference, interfered. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Oil Briefly Rises Above $55 and Seems Likely to Stay High
How high is the oil Momma? 55 Dollars and Risin'. How high is the oil Poppa? 80 Dollars and Risin'. Oil Briefly Rises Above $55 and Seems Likely to Stay High By JAD MOUAWAD Published: March 4, 2005 Oil prices briefly rose above $55 a barrel yesterday as investors bet that rising demand and tight supplies would keep prices high this year. On the New York Mercantile Exchange, crude-oil contracts for April delivery closed at $53.57 a barrel, up 52 cents, paring some of their gains after falling short of the record $55.67 a barrel reached in October. Gasoline futures rose 1.6 percent to close at a record $1.5075 a gallon. Oil prices have doubled in the last two years as producers struggle to meet rising demand from Asia and the United States. Traders worry that there is not enough spare capacity to make up for sudden shortages. Oil analysts said the likelihood of production interruptions and higher prices this year had prompted speculative traders to increase investments in commodities like crude oil and gasoline. Investors were encouraged by recent comments from major oil producers saying that prices would remain high this year. The strongest declaration came from Ali al-Naimi, Saudi Arabia's oil minister, who recently indicated that he expected that prices would range from $40 to $50 a barrel throughout the year. And yesterday, Adnan Shihab-Eldin, acting secretary general of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, told a Kuwaiti newspaper that he could not rule out the possibility that prices could spike to $80 a barrel in the event of a sudden interruption in production. It's a brave new world in the energy markets, said Thomas Bentz, an oil broker with BNP Paribas in New York. Demand continues to be strong, and traders are looking at whether it will outstrip supplies later this year. That's why you've had this huge capital influx and why hedge funds are coming into the market. For example, production from Iraq has not recovered since the end of the war because it is the target of attacks from insurgents; in Russia, the government's intervention has hurt production growth. With low inventory levels plus very little spare crude oil production or refining capacity, the market's ability to absorb supply-side shocks is at its lowest, Kevin Norrish, an analyst at Barclays Capital, wrote in a note to investors. Even $80 a barrel could look modest if there was major interruption in crude supplies, he said. OPEC ministers are scheduled to meet on March 16 in Iran to determine the group's output levels for the second quarter. A few weeks ago, representatives from OPEC countries raised the prospect of a cut in production to anticipate a slowdown in demand in the second quarter. In recent days, some oil ministers said that a cut in production was unlikely with prices at current levels. Still, there has not been much pressure on OPEC to increase production at a time when the American economy, which consumes a quarter of the world's oil, does not seem to have been hurt by the current prices. Samuel W. Bodman, the secretary of energy, told a Senate panel yesterday that there was not much he could do to press OPEC. The capability of any representative of this government to influence the members of OPEC is limited, he told the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. Mr. Bodman, who was asked why he did not take a more aggressive stance, said: I do expect to play a role and continue to play a role. But I have to tell you I do not control what OPEC does. Still, it is not clear what OPEC would do even if pressed to act. OPEC countries have been increasing their output to push prices down in recent weeks and are now producing close to their maximum capacity of 30 million barrels a day. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Snipping was: Re: Biofuel Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20
Greetings all, I am a new member and am well excited about learning all I can about biodiesel. I hope to make it for my personal use and use my experiences to help others who enter into the foray of B100. I will admit some great concern about the various plant oils--eg: soy and their double and triple bonds causing premature polymerization. And WVO as a source--now I'm scared! (OK-not really) But I find it interesting--until joining this list, all the info I found poking around the net seemed to say get vegetable oil, make fuel, go! Be it rapeseed, sunflower, corn or soy. Now I learn differently--all good and a testament to joining a list like this. But I digress... I have noted that many replies to messages are not snipped--yielding LONG diatribes between entries. Do you guys (and gals) not exercise this practice on purpose? Seems less text= less data=less time toread=less energy consumed=a good thing. My $0.02 US. Trey 05 Passat TDI ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities
Hi, Here is how my simple mind sees the situation. Unless a drastic event take place to grossly reduce the human population, humans concentrated in cities will remain a fact. As long as humans desire to consume animals for food the concentration of animals will remain a fact as well. Even if it where possible to spread out the human and animal population over the available land, I'm unsure if nature could safely process the waste generated. To me we are going to be left with figuring out how to deal with both confined animal and confined human waste. Yes the animals should be treated humanely, but the problem has always been defining humane. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad news for Diesel driver
Why all the acting like engine damage due to a timing chain or belt failure is something new, when this possibility has been around for quite some time? Longer than the 25 years indicated The risk is born from pushing the envelope, so to speak, to get the best possible performance from an internal combustion engine. Like everything there is a trade off. An increase performance over most of the engine's life for adding a maintainence item, as well as the risk of destroying the engine if that maintainence is ignored or stroke of bad luck occurs. I have to think the record would reveal the trade off a positive one. Doug - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bad news for Diesel driver : Audi, Honda, Volvo, VW and others have been using interference designs : for over 25 years. In fact, most high compression engines are : interference designs. : (Reply) : Well why not! It is a great way to sell parts, make profit and burn fossil : fuel.. It would change if there was proper consumer legislation and the : offending companies had to pay the repair bill when engines designed with : interference, interfered. : : Yours truly : John Wilson : Goldens : *** : Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve : : Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) : : Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm : Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm : Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm : http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm : : : In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . : After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. : : : ^^^ : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ : ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities
Hi, Here is how my simple mind sees the situation. Unless a drastic event take place to grossly reduce the human population, humans concentrated in cities will remain a fact. As long as humans desire to consume animals for food the concentration of animals will remain a fact as well. Even if it where possible to spread out the human and animal population over the available land, I'm unsure if nature could safely process the waste generated. To me we are going to be left with figuring out how to deal with both confined animal and confined human waste. Yes the animals should be treated humanely, but the problem has always been defining humane. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Not true. It's possible to raise the amount of meat required in sustainable ways, which includes processing the waste in sustainable ways too - in fact it relies on that. See, for instance: Ley Farming http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley BUT that will not leave room for the current insane game of using (up) most of the land and most of the resources (including horrendous quantities of fossil fuels at every turn) to raise ag. commodities disguised as food for The Few to play casinos with (eg ADM, Cargill, Monsanto et al), at everybody else's expense. Back to real farming, in other words. And that's not a choice or an option or an alternative, it's an absolute and urgent necessity. As for human wastes, the main problem is what goes into the sewage system these days. People add all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be there and didn't used to be 50 years ago when people like Wylie solved the problems of urban composting of human wastes. Misha Gale-Sinex just sent this to SANET, for instance: My problems with this--and something I'd want to see much more research on before I chose to ever use human manure compost of uncertain origin as a farm input--are rooted in what I used to hear from chemists in Philly and elsewhere who worked in waste treatment. One of them, with a big municipality, told me that they adjust their hourly treatment methods to account for the caffeine flush that moves through the sewage system in the morning. In other words, millions of people wake up, drink their coffee, pee (etc.) before leaving for work--and, voila, there's suddenly a huge flush of caffeine in the sewage effluent for X hours each morning. Our bodies can take up only so much of any drug we use; the rest is evacuated. Another wastewater chemist (whom I met at a conference somewhere--but he echoed what other wastewater people have told me) had deep concerns that the morning flush also includes all sort of prescription drugs. Bodies uptake only a portion of a given drug, and what is unmetabolized is passed. Some folks who engineer living machines (biological systems for cleaning up wastewater) told me the same thing. One man claimed that the duck drakes in a purification marsh (part of a municipal wastewater system) seemed to be behaving differently once Viagra hit the market--far more aggressive in their mating, and without cease. He claimed that he observed drakes rutting till they collapsed. Whether this is Viagra or something else, it's clear we don't know much about what we are passing through our bodies and into the environment. We too are nonpoint sources of pollution. And as Dr. Warren Porter and others have demonstrated, it doesn't take much of a concentration of chemicals to trigger biological effects. Nonetheless, properly controlled, urban composting can deal safely with all that stuff. It can't deal with industrial hazwastes, and there are a couple of ag. pesticides it also can't deal with. Stuff like that oughtn't to be there anyway, so get rid of it - stop it entering the system in the first place. And stop wasting all that water. All these problems can be solved. If you think the US can't manage it, how do you think countries like India and China have managed, with less land and far more people? A hundred years ago China had 410 million people, and their wastes were not a problem - rather nightsoil was a valuable commodity, one of the (many) mainstays of soil fertility maintenance. All wastes were returned to the soil, where they belong. All it takes is a different (better and saner) mindset. That's perhaps the only real problem, the mindset. Well, let's put it this way: change or die. Regards Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
On the other hand, it doesn't take very long for it to oxidise after brewing, especially if it's been bubble-washed. In one test some bubble-washed homebrew had oxidised well beyond the EU limit after only a week, and well beyond the abilities of anti-oxidants to stop it hardening. Use it fast, yes, and/or use an anti-oxidant. Best wishes Keith What sort of antioxidants are available? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Snipping was: Re: Biofuel Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20
Greetings all, I am a new member and am well excited about learning all I can about biodiesel. I hope to make it for my personal use and use my experiences to help others who enter into the foray of B100. I will admit some great concern about the various plant oils--eg: soy and their double and triple bonds causing premature polymerization. And WVO as a source--now I'm scared! (OK-not really) But I find it interesting--until joining this list, all the info I found poking around the net seemed to say get vegetable oil, make fuel, go! Be it rapeseed, sunflower, corn or soy. Now I learn differently--all good and a testament to joining a list like this. But I digress... I have noted that many replies to messages are not snipped--yielding LONG diatribes between entries. Do you guys (and gals) not exercise this practice on purpose? Seems less text= less data=less time toread=less energy consumed=a good thing. ... ie, the ideal=no messages at all? LOL! It comes up quite regularly. When you joined the list you were sent a Welcome message, did you read it? It refers to the List rules, among other things. It says this in the rules: Trim your replies: quote relevant portions of the original message in your reply, and snip what's not relevant. Read through what you've written before you Send it. The List rules are here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html However, what's relevant and what's not relevant has to be a matter of individual judgment. It's no use making strict rules about it, they wouldn't work anyway and be too restrictive. There can be a purpose in leaving in all previous messages and it should be an option. But that doesn't excuse neglect or carelessness, and further reminders don't go amiss, thankyou for doing the honours this time. My $0.02 US. 2 yen's worth in exchange... It says at the top of the Digests: When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Biofuel digest... I know you added Snipping, but Re: Biofuel Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 is not something that ought to appear in a subject line. The message you were responding to is titled Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making? Having that in the subject line instead of the digest stuff would make it a lot easier for folks following that thread. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Trey 05 Passat TDI ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Diesel engines
If you really want a diesel vehicle and are not satisfied with what's available, find a small pickup with a blown engine and replace it with a diesel out of a junkyard. In the eighties, Toyota, Nissan, Isuzu, and Mazda all made diesels for small trucks, and some of them can still be found. Maxima had a fine 6 cylinder with a 5 speed manual, if you can fine one - it was a dynamite road car, able to cruise at 70 or above effortlessly...Tony Austin ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
Thanks for the support Keith. I am thinking about the 100% grass fed people, who raise animals strictly by pasture and hay. Many of them also raise pork this way. It takes about 6 months longer to get the animals to slaughter weight this way, but it is not bad for the environment and is much healthier meat for us. That extra six months must be paid for, so, selling the tallow and lard for fuel could be profitable. Some of the family farms that are run this way are quite large, with hundreds of head of cattle, sheep and pigs. I have found, myself, that one does get lots of lard from pigs, and if you don't use it to cook, there is only so much soap you need. A gallon of lard, much more than that on a single pig. I got almost 2 gallons off the last goat I had to slaughter. [He was at my place for a whole 20 minutes, but he was mean and no animal is going to head butt me!] He made wonderful dog food and fantastic soap. Comparing all people that raise animals for meat to slaveholders is totally unjust. My animals live the healthiest, most natural lives right up until the second they die. No torture of trailer rides, being poked and prodded to walk on broken legs or any of the other abuse that goes on in the factory world. Yes, we turn vegetarian in public. Our rule, if I don't know its name, I am not eating it. Bright Blessings, Kim At 12:56 PM 3/7/2005, you wrote: Hello Bo But Kim is right. Unless you add some such proviso to your exclusion, your blanket condemnation could indeed harm the good guys. For one thing, though you might be well aware of the difference, you shouldn't presume that others will be. You could well be persuading them to condemn the wrong people, possibly in other spheres too, not just biodiesel. Factory farms are an anachronism, they don't have a future; farmers like Kim are the future, and blanket condemnations now could warp that future for them and for us all. My friend, there is no large enough source of lard or tallow feedstock from a family farm. I appreciate your concern about blanket condemnations, but once again, would you say don't condemn all slaveholders; many are small plantations who treat their slaves decently? It's a poor comparison, as what you say below of your own practices demonstrates. Best wishes Keith I am not a vegetarian, because I AM a family farmer. I've been involved in animal husbandry and subsistence farming for many years; I am not an urbanite discussing this from an armchair in my drawing room. If my milk cow has a boy calf, there is no other future for him than to be eaten. If one of our laying chickens dies, or we have too many roosters, they must be eaten. If we were not willing to eat this occasional meat, we could not raise milk or eggs. So I am not naive about necessary and natural relationships. Factory farming, whether owned and operated by a family or a large corporation, is a despicable abuse of power by our species, just like slavery, and is unnatural and extremely unhealthy for everyone in all directions. No one is going to be able to produce biodiesel from collecting a gallon of lard from one little farm and two gallons from another every few weeks or months. That's not what my e-mail was about. Sometimes blanket condemnations are actually appropriate, as in the case of slavery or genocide. What we do with animals every day and every night in factory farms is both slavery and genocide. Sorry, I cannot hedge on that. To me, that's false tolerance and is a problem of our age. Bo ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities
idiot; I don't appreciate it. Kim, where on earth did I ever say anyone who raises animals for meat is like a slaveholder??? I said I raise animals too, and eat their meat when I need to. And I ALSO said factory farming is evil, and you and your husband do NOT FACTORY FARM! Just leave it alone, okay? You're twisting this all out of its original context and fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Jeez, I'm a farmer, for God's sake. Factory farms are not farms, they are factories. I have never said anything that lumps you and your husband into all of that, so please stop defending yourself. I'm not your enemy. And I repeat, no biodiesel producer is going to be getting millions of gallons of lard or tallow from humane family farms such as yours. You're obscuring the original point of this e-mail dialogue, which was about huge quantities of animal wastes, not a gallon from a goat. And Keith, you remind me a little of one of the talk show hosts -- no one ever comes out better than you on your own listserve. In each of our exchanges you found a way to chide me a little even when we were saying practically the same thing. I'm not interested in wasting my time with banter and petty argument. Punch my name up on Google and you'll see that I'm one of the good guys just like you. Stop trying to make me wrong and we'll get along a lot better. This is my last entry into this beef (excuse the pun). Bo Lozoff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:50:45 +0900 Hi Doug Hi, Here is how my simple mind sees the situation. Unless a drastic event take place to grossly reduce the human population, humans concentrated in cities will remain a fact. As long as humans desire to consume animals for food the concentration of animals will remain a fact as well. Even if it where possible to spread out the human and animal population over the available land, I'm unsure if nature could safely process the waste generated. To me we are going to be left with figuring out how to deal with both confined animal and confined human waste. Yes the animals should be treated humanely, but the problem has always been defining humane. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Not true. It's possible to raise the amount of meat required in sustainable ways, which includes processing the waste in sustainable ways too - in fact it relies on that. See, for instance: Ley Farming http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley BUT that will not leave room for the current insane game of using (up) most of the land and most of the resources (including horrendous quantities of fossil fuels at every turn) to raise ag. commodities disguised as food for The Few to play casinos with (eg ADM, Cargill, Monsanto et al), at everybody else's expense. Back to real farming, in other words. And that's not a choice or an option or an alternative, it's an absolute and urgent necessity. As for human wastes, the main problem is what goes into the sewage system these days. People add all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be there and didn't used to be 50 years ago when people like Wylie solved the problems of urban composting of human wastes. Misha Gale-Sinex just sent this to SANET, for instance: My problems with this--and something I'd want to see much more research on before I chose to ever use human manure compost of uncertain origin as a farm input--are rooted in what I used to hear from chemists in Philly and elsewhere who worked in waste treatment. One of them, with a big municipality, told me that they adjust their hourly treatment methods to account for the caffeine flush that moves through the sewage system in the morning. In other words, millions of people wake up, drink their coffee, pee (etc.) before leaving for work--and, voila, there's suddenly a huge flush of caffeine in the sewage effluent for X hours each morning. Our bodies can take up only so much of any drug we use; the rest is evacuated. Another wastewater chemist (whom I met at a conference somewhere--but he echoed what other wastewater people have told me) had deep concerns that the morning flush also includes all sort of prescription drugs. Bodies uptake only a portion of a given drug, and what is unmetabolized is passed. Some folks who engineer living machines (biological systems for cleaning up wastewater) told me the same thing. One man claimed that the duck drakes in a purification marsh (part of a municipal wastewater system) seemed to be behaving differently once Viagra hit the market--far more aggressive in their mating, and without cease. He claimed that he observed drakes rutting till they collapsed. Whether this is Viagra or something else, it's clear we don't know much about what we are passing through our bodies and into the environment. We too are nonpoint sources of pollution. And as Dr. Warren Porter and
Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities
Hi, Relax...nothing was personal...you brought up some valid stuff, and basically everyone is agreeing with you...but, also trying to point out some additional nuances to all this. One of my beefs, has been all the waste associated with herd culls in the UK and elsewhere to halt the spread of disease. I don't recall the actual numbers, but I think it was in the million head of cattle range that were put down during the mad cow scare. IIRC there was a similar huge culling when swine flu was detected in the UK. When the Nipah virus was loose in Indonesia many thousands of pigs were destroyed. Currently they have been putting down millions of chickens due to the fear of bird flu in Southeast Asia. I'm sure there are many more examples. Although I understand the need to stop the spread of disease, the sight of all those animals just bulldozed into trenches is to me the epitomy of horrible waste. How much better if they could have been rendered to biodiesel. Regards, Derek -- Original message -- From: Bo Lozoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aw, come on guys! Please don't try to turn me into a cardboard stereotypical idiot; I don't appreciate it. Kim, where on earth did I ever say anyone who raises animals for meat is like a slaveholder??? I said I raise animals too, and eat their meat when I need to. And I ALSO said factory farming is evil, and you and your husband do NOT FACTORY FARM! Just leave it alone, okay? You're twisting this all out of its original context and fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Jeez, I'm a farmer, for God's sake. Factory farms are not farms, they are factories. I have never said anything that lumps you and your husband into all of that, so please stop defending yourself. I'm not your enemy. And I repeat, no biodiesel producer is going to be getting millions of gallons of lard or tallow from humane family farms such as yours. You're obscuring the original point of this e-mail dialogue, which was about huge quantities of animal wastes, not a gallon from a goat. And Keith, you remind me a little of one of the talk show hosts -- no one ever comes out better than you on your own listserve. In each of our exchanges you found a way to chide me a little even when we were saying practically the same thing. I'm not interested in wasting my time with banter and petty argument. Punch my name up on Google and you'll see that I'm one of the good guys just like you. Stop trying to make me wrong and we'll get along a lot better. This is my last entry into this beef (excuse the pun). Bo Lozoff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:50:45 +0900 Hi Doug Hi, Here is how my simple mind sees the situation. Unless a drastic event take place to grossly reduce the human population, humans concentrated in cities will remain a fact. As long as humans desire to consume animals for food the concentration of animals will remain a fact as well. Even if it where possible to spread out the human and animal population over the available land, I'm unsure if nature could safely process the waste generated. To me we are going to be left with figuring out how to deal with both confined animal and confined human waste. Yes the animals should be treated humanely, but the problem has always been defining humane. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Not true. It's possible to raise the amount of meat required in sustainable ways, which includes processing the waste in sustainable ways too - in fact it relies on that. See, for instance: Ley Farming http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley BUT that will not leave room for the current insane game of using (up) most of the land and most of the resources (including horrendous quantities of fossil fuels at every turn) to raise ag. commodities disguised as food for The Few to play casinos with (eg ADM, Cargill, Monsanto et al), at everybody else's expense. Back to real farming, in other words. And that's not a choice or an option or an alternative, it's an absolute and urgent necessity. As for human wastes, the main problem is what goes into the sewage system these days. People add all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be there and didn't used to be 50 years ago when people like Wylie solved the problems of urban composting of human wastes. Misha Gale-Sinex just sent this to SANET, for instance: My problems with this--and something I'd want to see much more research on before I chose to ever use human manure compost of uncertain origin as a farm input--are rooted in what I used to hear from chemists in Philly and elsewhere who worked in waste treatment. One of them, with a big municipality, told me that they adjust their hourly treatment methods to account for the caffeine flush that
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Know of any good anti-oxidants that are readily available? The reason I ask, is that it might not be a bad idea to use some with mystery oil. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 17:59 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] On the other hand, it doesn't take very long for it to oxidise after brewing, especially if it's been bubble-washed. In one test some bubble-washed homebrew had oxidised well beyond the EU limit after only a week, and well beyond the abilities of anti-oxidants to stop it hardening. Use it fast, yes, and/or use an anti-oxidant. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities
What I find rather interesting in the same realm of discussion is when it revolves around Meat vs Veggie vs Animal Rights vs Factory Farming vs Cities. Goats and sheep can keep keep fallow land manicured extremely well, free of thistle and other undesireables, all the while beating vegetable matter and maure back into the soil in preparation for a future crop. But that's exploiting animals for human use, right? And if a person uses the hide of the animal when it expires rather than buying a sheet of synthetic leather (vinyl) then the vegans start to get miffed. Better to produce one of the most toxic fossil plastics than to get more complete utility out of a working component of a sustainably managed farm? (Let's not forget that the human farmer is a working component as well. Stuff him or her in a potato sack upon their demise and plant a fruit bearing tree over them for maximum utility. Now that's animal exploitation! But more humane than chaining a human to a factory production line and eternal debt.) And then there are vegetarians who would argue that using livestock to fertilze and prep soils is akin to animal products in their veggies. Better to use chemical fertilizers, increase fossil fuel consumption and incumbant pollutions and social devastations? Let's face it. The most benign/environmental way to manage human food requirements is for everything that is consumed to return to the same plot of land that it came from - precisely as nature manages production and consumption. Problem is that cities and metro areas would necessarily have to be dismantled to do this - a phenomenal step backwards in the peculiarly bent mind of humanity, albeit the world of the citizen farmer that Thomas Jefferson so heartily endorsed. Not to worry. Eventually, if not sooner, calamity will strike and we'll see mass migration out of many cities, along with incumbant hunger, civil strife and domestic military oversight on a massive scale. And that's if the chaos is managed in an orderly fashion, which we all know won't happen in a textbook manner. If you want to put it in a nutshell, it's not factory farming that is the root of the problem, it's the mass concentration of human livestock and the practice of skills specialization and isolation rather than societal-wide maintenance of the most rudimentary survival skills. Sooner or later it's going to come back to bite society in the butt in more ways than the present excessive expense of maintaining metro infrastructures. Todd Swearingen The end of the human race will be that we eventually die of civilisation. Ralph Waldo Emerson - Original Message - From: Bo Lozoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities Aw, come on guys! Please don't try to turn me into a cardboard stereotypical idiot; I don't appreciate it. Kim, where on earth did I ever say anyone who raises animals for meat is like a slaveholder??? I said I raise animals too, and eat their meat when I need to. And I ALSO said factory farming is evil, and you and your husband do NOT FACTORY FARM! Just leave it alone, okay? You're twisting this all out of its original context and fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Jeez, I'm a farmer, for God's sake. Factory farms are not farms, they are factories. I have never said anything that lumps you and your husband into all of that, so please stop defending yourself. I'm not your enemy. And I repeat, no biodiesel producer is going to be getting millions of gallons of lard or tallow from humane family farms such as yours. You're obscuring the original point of this e-mail dialogue, which was about huge quantities of animal wastes, not a gallon from a goat. And Keith, you remind me a little of one of the talk show hosts -- no one ever comes out better than you on your own listserve. In each of our exchanges you found a way to chide me a little even when we were saying practically the same thing. I'm not interested in wasting my time with banter and petty argument. Punch my name up on Google and you'll see that I'm one of the good guys just like you. Stop trying to make me wrong and we'll get along a lot better. This is my last entry into this beef (excuse the pun). Bo Lozoff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:50:45 +0900 Hi Doug Hi, Here is how my simple mind sees the situation. Unless a drastic event take place to grossly reduce the human population, humans concentrated in cities will remain a fact. As long as humans desire to consume animals for food the concentration of animals will remain a fact as well. Even if it where possible to spread out the human and animal population over the available land, I'm unsure if nature could safely process the waste
Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities
the sight of all those animals just bulldozed into trenches is to me the epitomy of horrible waste. How much better if they could have been rendered to biodiesel. How much better if they were never amassed in such concentrations in the first place and the destruction was eliminated due to the non-existance of mono-culture practices? Heal the patient, not the symptom. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities Hi, Relax...nothing was personal...you brought up some valid stuff, and basically everyone is agreeing with you...but, also trying to point out some additional nuances to all this. One of my beefs, has been all the waste associated with herd culls in the UK and elsewhere to halt the spread of disease. I don't recall the actual numbers, but I think it was in the million head of cattle range that were put down during the mad cow scare. IIRC there was a similar huge culling when swine flu was detected in the UK. When the Nipah virus was loose in Indonesia many thousands of pigs were destroyed. Currently they have been putting down millions of chickens due to the fear of bird flu in Southeast Asia. I'm sure there are many more examples. Although I understand the need to stop the spread of disease, the sight of all those animals just bulldozed into trenches is to me the epitomy of horrible waste. How much better if they could have been rendered to biodiesel. Regards, Derek -- Original message -- From: Bo Lozoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aw, come on guys! Please don't try to turn me into a cardboard stereotypical idiot; I don't appreciate it. Kim, where on earth did I ever say anyone who raises animals for meat is like a slaveholder??? I said I raise animals too, and eat their meat when I need to. And I ALSO said factory farming is evil, and you and your husband do NOT FACTORY FARM! Just leave it alone, okay? You're twisting this all out of its original context and fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Jeez, I'm a farmer, for God's sake. Factory farms are not farms, they are factories. I have never said anything that lumps you and your husband into all of that, so please stop defending yourself. I'm not your enemy. And I repeat, no biodiesel producer is going to be getting millions of gallons of lard or tallow from humane family farms such as yours. You're obscuring the original point of this e-mail dialogue, which was about huge quantities of animal wastes, not a gallon from a goat. And Keith, you remind me a little of one of the talk show hosts -- no one ever comes out better than you on your own listserve. In each of our exchanges you found a way to chide me a little even when we were saying practically the same thing. I'm not interested in wasting my time with banter and petty argument. Punch my name up on Google and you'll see that I'm one of the good guys just like you. Stop trying to make me wrong and we'll get along a lot better. This is my last entry into this beef (excuse the pun). Bo Lozoff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:50:45 +0900 Hi Doug Hi, Here is how my simple mind sees the situation. Unless a drastic event take place to grossly reduce the human population, humans concentrated in cities will remain a fact. As long as humans desire to consume animals for food the concentration of animals will remain a fact as well. Even if it where possible to spread out the human and animal population over the available land, I'm unsure if nature could safely process the waste generated. To me we are going to be left with figuring out how to deal with both confined animal and confined human waste. Yes the animals should be treated humanely, but the problem has always been defining humane. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Not true. It's possible to raise the amount of meat required in sustainable ways, which includes processing the waste in sustainable ways too - in fact it relies on that. See, for instance: Ley Farming http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#ley BUT that will not leave room for the current insane game of using (up) most of the land and most of the resources (including horrendous quantities of fossil fuels at every turn) to raise ag. commodities disguised as food for The Few to play casinos with (eg ADM, Cargill, Monsanto et al), at everybody else's expense. Back to real farming, in other words. And that's not a choice or an option or an alternative, it's an absolute and urgent necessity. As for human wastes, the main problem is what goes into the sewage system these days. People add all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be there and didn't used to be 50 years ago when people like Wylie solved the problems of
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
high Iodine biodiesel with antioxidants. Maybe BHT or BHA. Greg Harbican wrote: Know of any good anti-oxidants that are readily available? The reason I ask, is that it might not be a bad idea to use some with mystery oil. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 17:59 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] On the other hand, it doesn't take very long for it to oxidise after brewing, especially if it's been bubble-washed. In one test some bubble-washed homebrew had oxidised well beyond the EU limit after only a week, and well beyond the abilities of anti-oxidants to stop it hardening. Use it fast, yes, and/or use an anti-oxidant. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Know of any good anti-oxidants that are readily available? The reason I ask, is that it might not be a bad idea to use some with mystery oil. BHA (Butylated hydroxyanisole), BHT (Butylated hydroxytoluene), and TBHQ (Tertiary Butyl Hydroquinone) are all food grade antioxidants that are readily available. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice forBD making?]
I probably asked for that, for not being a little more explicit. We all know they are common additives in food, but, to my knowledge I can not just go down to the local food mart and but, a couple of pounds / gallons or what ever they are sold as - unless they are sold under another name and ( again to my knowledge ) they are not something that can be made by someone that wants to be self-sufficient. Greg H. - Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 08:44 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice forBD making?] Greg Harbican wrote: Know of any good anti-oxidants that are readily available? The reason I ask, is that it might not be a bad idea to use some with mystery oil. BHA (Butylated hydroxyanisole), BHT (Butylated hydroxytoluene), and TBHQ (Tertiary Butyl Hydroquinone) are all food grade antioxidants that are readily available. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Mileage on diesel trucks...
Just wondering if anyone has any specs on mpg for diesel pickups when using biodiesel? Specifically the Cummins 5.7l Turbo diesels in the Dodge pickups. Does the mileage drastically increase over diesel? I found mpg for regular diesel, but not too much on biodiesel. Thanks! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities
True, but often the cow is already out of the barn, so to say. One day we may be wise enough to prevent...but, right now, I would at least like to see something useful done with all the carcasses. Derek -- Original message -- From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Although I understand the need to stop the spread of disease, the sight of all those animals just bulldozed into trenches is to me the epitomy of horrible waste. How much better if they could have been rendered to biodiesel. How much better if they were never amassed in such concentrations in the first place and the destruction was eliminated due to the non-existance of mono-culture practices? Heal the patient, not the symptom. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities Hi, Relax...nothing was personal...you brought up some valid stuff, and basically everyone is agreeing with you...but, also trying to point out some additional nuances to all this. One of my beefs, has been all the waste associated with herd culls in the UK and elsewhere to halt the spread of disease. I don't recall the actual numbers, but I think it was in the million head of cattle range that were put down during the mad cow scare. IIRC there was a similar huge culling when swine flu was detected in the UK. When the Nipah virus was loose in Indonesia many thousands of pigs were destroyed. Currently they have been putting down millions of chickens due to the fear of bird flu in Southeast Asia. I'm sure there are many more examples. Although I understand the need to stop the spread of disease, the sight of all those animals just bulldozed into trenches is to me the epitomy of horrible waste. How much better if they could have been rendered to biodiesel. Regards, Derek SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Re: factory farms vs. big cities
Phillip. I would like to know about this. I have no experience with municiple waste handling, but I have lived in the farm belt all of my life and know how hard small family farmers work to manage their waste streams. The problem I see with urban sprawl is the attempt to utilize the same waste handling solutions that cities use. When our township tried to setup a waste water district, where several rural homes would connect their septic tanks to a common drain field, the state disallowed it. All of the home owners were required to become annexed to the city and join the municiple waste water treament system. But like I said, I do not know the details of each system. Mikem Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:02:54 -0800 (PST) From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] factory farms vs. large cities To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mike - interesting comments. Earlier in my career, I worked as a Field Energy Engineer and was assigned beef, poultry, dairy market sector including Abattoirs, Slaughterhouses, Meat Packers, Poultry Farms, et al. I also handled the sewage and water treatment market sector for about six years. It was interesting experience. I visited all these facilities inside and out. I can provide additional comment if needed. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Know of any good anti-oxidants that are readily available? The reason I ask, is that it might not be a bad idea to use some with mystery oil. Greg H. I suggested this to Chris: Try Biofuel Systems http://www.biofuelsystems.com/products.htm Biodiesel equipment, supplies additives Write to Paul O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] and tell him I said so. I haven't tried their anti-oxidant but we use their Wintron X30 and they're good people. He's in the UK and so are they, but they're happy to export. In the US, I received this awhile back, with an offer to send me a sample, but when they realised I'm in Japan I heard no more, and no sample, so I can't say anything about it. LANXESS Corporation was formerly the Chemicals Division of Bayer. We are producers of antioxidant's and have developed a Biodiesel Stabilizer that prevents the formation of heavies when Biodiesel is stored. We could offer you 5 gallons free of charge. Our material is non toxic and non regulated. Please let me know where we could send the material. Thank you Best Regards, Dan Hawkinson Mid West Region Manager Basic Fine Chemicals LANXESS Corporation [EMAIL PROTECTED] 219-374-8033 Cell phone 219-781-8033 fax 219-374-8044 6315 W 135th Avenue Cedar Lake, IN 46303 http://www.us.lanxess.com If you write to him, please tell him I said so also! I'm not after freebies, I'd like to add it to our Biofuels supplies page, but not if he doesn't reply. Best wishes Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 17:59 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] On the other hand, it doesn't take very long for it to oxidise after brewing, especially if it's been bubble-washed. In one test some bubble-washed homebrew had oxidised well beyond the EU limit after only a week, and well beyond the abilities of anti-oxidants to stop it hardening. Use it fast, yes, and/or use an anti-oxidant. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
On the other hand, it doesn't take very long for it to oxidise after brewing, especially if it's been bubble-washed. In one test some bubble-washed homebrew had oxidised well beyond the EU limit after only a week, and well beyond the abilities of anti-oxidants to stop it hardening. Use it fast, yes, and/or use an anti-oxidant. Best wishes Keith What sort of antioxidants are available? Try Biofuel Systems http://www.biofuelsystems.com/products.htm Biodiesel equipment, supplies additives Write to Paul O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] and tell him I said so. I haven't tried their anti-oxidant but we use their Wintron X30 and they're good people. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice forBD making?]
I probably asked for that, for not being a little more explicit. We all know they are common additives in food, but, to my knowledge I can not just go down to the local food mart and but, a couple of pounds / gallons or what ever they are sold as - unless they are sold under another name and ( again to my knowledge ) they are not something that can be made by someone that wants to be self-sufficient. Greg H. I was told this: Edible oil manufacturers make use of synthetic vitamins for this matter, the oil industry keeps its substances a secret. It's not vitamins for sure, because the additions are 200- 300 ppm volumetric. FYI. Best wishes Keith - Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 08:44 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice forBD making?] Greg Harbican wrote: Know of any good anti-oxidants that are readily available? The reason I ask, is that it might not be a bad idea to use some with mystery oil. BHA (Butylated hydroxyanisole), BHT (Butylated hydroxytoluene), and TBHQ (Tertiary Butyl Hydroquinone) are all food grade antioxidants that are readily available. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: factory farms vs. big cities
Mike - I am at work and will send email later tonight Pacific Standard Time. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phillip. I would like to know about this. I have no experience with municiple waste handling, but I have lived in the farm belt all of my life and know how hard small family farmers work to manage their waste streams. The problem I see with urban sprawl is the attempt to utilize the same waste handling solutions that cities use. When our township tried to setup a waste water district, where several rural homes would connect their septic tanks to a common drain field, the state disallowed it. All of the home owners were required to become annexed to the city and join the municiple waste water treament system. But like I said, I do not know the details of each system. Mikem Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:02:54 -0800 (PST) From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] factory farms vs. large cities To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mike - interesting comments. Earlier in my career, I worked as a Field Energy Engineer and was assigned beef, poultry, dairy market sector including Abattoirs, Slaughterhouses, Meat Packers, Poultry Farms, et al. I also handled the sewage and water treatment market sector for about six years. It was interesting experience. I visited all these facilities inside and out. I can provide additional comment if needed. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Latest Consumer Reports
Hello Keith, I hope this finds you and Midori doing well. snip Rely on the government to fix our problems??? No Thank You! The government is again a symptom of the American Mind-set. The U.S. government is so often accused of catering to big business. And rightly so...but that is still just a symptom. Those big corporations don't care about anything but their profits and their profits come from the *ravenous* appetite that *most* Americans have for consumer goods. I'd say it's the other way round - that mindset of insatiable consumerism is largely or entirely a creation of the corporate sector and its immense PR efforts over the last half century and more, and especially the last two or three decades. I have to agree with you regarding the immense PR efforts of the corporations. The largest portion of my mail and email is junk/spam resulting from the PR efforts of corporations. Our beautiful nation is littered with billboards. And radio and television are consumed with advertisements. Yet I would like to believe that Americans do have a mind of their own and can choose to act on the corporate PR or ignore it as I and my family do. It's this will to ignore the PR which I think can change the demand for the products/lifestyles that the corporations are pushing. And if people will stop responding to their PR, it will decrease as a result of lower profits per advertisement mechanisms. In addition, the weakaning of the Big corporations by greatly reduced demand will in turn reduce their influence on the government.IMO. Even though I believe that the average American has the ability and responsablity to make or break corporations by applying the laws of supply and demand we must still hold our government accountable. The effort to make life better and equatable for all must be done by all means available. Has the American public (not all, as you say, I'm not sure if it's even most) always had this mindset? No. I can't say with all assurity that most Americans have adopted this mindset but I can certainly speak to this from a sampling of where I live. 20 years ago I moved onto the family land. It is on a road approximately 5 miles long. At that time there were 8 farms houses and farms on the road (mine being one of them). Back then there was very little traffic on the road and we all had our pickups and farm tractors to work the farms. All of the houses were of modest size comparable to mine. Today there are only two small farms left. Mine and one other. When the older farmers died their children did'nt want to work the farms. They saw the opportunity to make a lot of quick money selling the land to developers for housing and industry. Over the last five years there have been over 400 houses built on the once beautiful farmland. And these houses are huge. To give you an example one of the new neighbors kids is friends with my son. He is an only child. He and his parents live alone in a 3,200 square foot home with two SUV's parked in the driveway. And that is typical of all the homes being built in my area. And this same thing is happening everywhere around me. So, no I can't say for sure that most Americans have this mindset - but most of those moving in around me sure do. Has the corporate sector always had this mindset? - Those big corporations don't care about anything but their profits and their profits come from the *ravenous* appetite that *most* Americans have for consumer goods. Yes. Greedy, dissatisfied and discontented, sel-centred and dependent, that's how they like us to be. Government? Why would they object? It sure suits them too. It is on a base level simply a fact of supply and demand. If the American people will change their *synthetic* appetites to *organic* appetites and learn to live content lives How can you be content with that ceaseless barrage of advertising being hurled at you? $100 billion a year (and the rest!), and its sole purpose is to make you discontented - the be contented you need something you don't have. It doesn't take too long before it's a deeply ingrained habit to think that way. I think maybe I should explain more of what I mean by I am content. I am content mentally, physically, and spiritually. My life is in balance and my needs and the needs of my family are met. I certainly want to improve my families efforts for reducing our impact on the environment and increasing our self sufficency. Yet acknowledging that there is always room for improvement does not make me discontent. I am however not content many of the external forces such as my government and the corporate PR, etc.. I believe that some of the greatest Americans that ever lived were those small family farmers where several generations of the family lived, worked, and played together in a self-sustaining manner. I hope that we can get back to those days as a nation and not as a few pockets of families scattered throughout the country. To change Americans' *synthetic*
[Biofuel] CODEX ALIMENTARIS ENDS U.S. SUPPLEMENTS IN JUNE 2005
Off topic in a way - but another instance of Big Business set hell bent at fleecing us all even more. Greed really does know no limits does it? *shakes head in despair* Regards to all Malcolm CODEX ALIMENTARIS ENDS U.S. SUPPLEMENTS IN JUNE 2005 By Dr. James Howenstine, MD. March 6, 2005 NewsWithViews.com Working stealthily BIG PHARMA has rapidly pushed their legislative program (Codex Alimentaris) in Europe that will eliminate the free choice Americans now have to purchase vitamins, herbs, minerals, homeopathic remedies, aminoacids and nutritional supplements. This elimination of all competition for the pharmaceutical industry will produce an enormous increase in the already exorbitant profits earned by the pharmaceutical firms. Of even greater significance the lack of free choice to stay well by taking effective nutritional substances will promptly be followed by a sharp increase in illnesses that will only be treated in the future with pharmaceutical drugs. The new Codex Alimentaris adopted in a secret meeting in Europe in November 2004 is scheduled to take effect in June 2005. Because the United States belongs to the World Trade Organization WTO any changes approved in Europe automatically become law in the United States superceding our own laws (we are no longer a sovereign nation). Failure to comply with these changes institutes lawsuits which can not be won as they are settled in international courts which care nothing about U.S. laws. Incidentally, Europe has been very leery of genetically modified foods because of serious concerns about their safety. By this same WTO mechanism Europe will be forced to accept importation of U.S. GMO foods even if they know they are bad for health. The features of Codex Alimentaris are: * No supplements can be sold for preventative or therapeutic use. * Any potency higher than RDA levels (pathetically low) is a drug that requires a prescription and must be produced by drug companies. * Codex regulations are binding internationally * New supplements are banned unless given Codex testing and approval (certain to expensive and lacking in scientific merit). Norway and Germany are already operating under the new Codex regulations. The price of zinc tablets has gone from $4 to $52. Echinacea has risen from $14 to $153. * Codex regulations are not based on science or research findings. These regulations were developed by 11 appointed persons. Guess who appointed them? Why Haven't I Heard About This? The controlled press has been instructed to avoid commenting on this issue until it becomes a fait accomplis. At that time your congressional legislators will say they are sorry but there is nothing they can do to reverse the Codex. The truth is they were, all but a few, bought and paid for back when the World Trade Organization was ratified by the U.S. Congress. Can Anything Be Done To Stop This Codex? I hope so but the remaining time is miniscule and the enemy has carried out a brilliant strategy. There is no reason for any optimism about the possibility of reversing the Codex regulations. A brilliant English lawyer (Anderson), considered to be the top lawyer in that nation, has agreed to fight the Codex in court because he thinks he can win. This fight needs money because it is against the incredible financial resources of the pharmaceutical industry. Two other sinister Directives need to be reversed in Brussels as well as the implemented Codex Directive. Donations to the http://alliance-natural-health.org are vital. These funds will be used to try to overturn Codex and hire lobbyists to oppose the other 2 Directives. Contacting your congressman and senator is desirable. If millions of persons get involved the legislators may take notice. The New World Order leaders were shocked when meetings in Seattle in 1999 and Quebec City in 2001 resulted in riots. When the responsible U.S. citizens that have kept themselves well with intelligent use of supplements learn that there is nothing available from now on they are likely to be very angry. For many persons this may crystallize the realization that they are living in a police state and that there is no longer any power in the hands of private citizens. What Can Concerned Individuals Do To Preserve Good Health? If our donations do not stop this pharmaceutical juggernaut some planning may still be worthwhile. Many large natural health product providers seem to be oblivious to this danger. Perhaps they are planning on selling out to BIG PHARMA at the last minute. Buying a stock of the supplements that have helped you seems wise. Remember the expiration date on a bottle is simply an educated guess. Manufacturers want to error on the side of public safety and setting dates close to the time of manufacture encourages increased sales volume. The U.S. military has taken advantage of the
