Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
That is entirely correct. It's a feel good solution. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 11:48 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place Hi Greg, You are right. When one starts thinking about their idea a bit more in depth, it sounds kind of silly. Maybe they hope to market it to people who want to see themselves as environmentally responsable while still being able to drive their gas hogs regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Orange an not so clear biodiesel
Hi everyone, Iâve been making a lot of progress but have run into some trouble. Iâve been doing a lot of semi-small batches before I do a larger 35gallon batch in my processor. I get oil that only needs between 2-3 ml to turn my phenolphthalein a light pink so it comes out to 5.5-6.5 grams of NaOH per liter of oil and I used 20% methanol by volume of my WVO. I mix for about 20 min and keep the temperature between 110-120 degrees F. After it settles for 24 hours I get a very distinct layer of glycerin and the rest is biodiesel. The glycerin is a solid jelly like paste. I washed it using the bubble method and the water was initially a milky white but eventually turned clear. My problem is that the clarity of the biodiesel is not the greatest. It is a slightly dark orange color with a ph in the 6-7 range(all I have is ph paper to test the final product). It did get clearer with washing but not by much. I still cannot see though my batches and I know good quality biodiesel is golden yellow color and very transparent. My stuff is defiantly not good quality yet. I think I need to add some more NaOH. I read somewhere that a orange color means the reaction did not go to completion and that more catalyst should be used. I would greatly appreciate any outside insight and I hope I provided enough of the finer details. Thanks again everyone, Theo Chadzichristos ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
Hello, I've been using the Harbor Freight 1 1/2 hp clear water pump in a closed reactor Appleseed setup for some test batches Approximate 37 gal of WVO + 7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The pump is struggling to pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water heater). In fact the pump doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at this point from a lower valve outlet! I know the pump is not only underrated, but possible not working! (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with this new pump) Note: I need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is 5 feet. Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the reactor and also to provide better circulating mixing and need to simply upgrade this pump. Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186catname=waterkeyword=WPCA Also: http://www.mcmaster.com/ But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some pumps don't recommend liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I hope to purchase this unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
um, whatever floats your boat Bob. We've been talking about the efficiency/effectiveness of H2 in a fireplace, the value of a fireplace as an efficient source of heat and power sources for electrolysis. But, if you want to change the subject to color, or wires (or whatever), that's OK with me too. :-) um, Mike --- bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: um, hydrogen burns with a colorless flame, ie it is essentially invisible. Instead gather around a nice red nichrome wire. Michael Redler wrote: I don't see conflicting opinions. I just see different motives. Agreed; H2 via electrolysis is not efficient by most comparisons. But, since when is a fireplace anyone's first choice for an efficient means of heating a home? Yet millions of people (including myself and other environmentally conscious individuals) choose to use fuel inefficiently from time to time and create a pleasant atmosphere -- especially when family and friends are gathered together during their time off. Although it's hard to quantify, there is value in activities like sitting in front of a fireplace. Mike Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You still run into H2 storage issues. You would have to spend days making H2 just to run the fireplace for a few of hrs. Why bother? It is more efficient to use the energy in another manor. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:12 Subject: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21 If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient. Michael Redler wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis. Does anyone have a link with some stats? Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea. Kirk Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: Hi all, This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard electrolysis of water. You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed. Company states output at around 31,000 btu's. It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite a few clones will be available. Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air. The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation of hearth products http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33 Get your daily alternative energy news http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has
[Biofuel] sillyness-was- hydrogen fire place
Hi Hakan, Well I think that it is silly to use fossil produced electricity for an electrolizer to burn hydrogen in a fireplace. Not efficient at all and a waste of juice. There is nothing renewable about that idea. I also just learned that the company has been having problems with the units. Seems the front keeps blowing off!! I also think it is silly to power the so called hydrogen economy from fossil/nuclear/coal/LNG cracked hydrogen, although LNG produced hydrogen is cleaner than what we have now and will probably power most of the initial hydrogen hybrids. It is also a good bet that nuclear produced hydrogen will play a significant part as well. I would maybe suggest that the waste products be mixed with cement and made into bricks to build homes for politicians with! I don't think it is silly to use wind, PV and other renewable sources to generate hydrogen. There are already on site units made by Stuart and others that can run on wind and PV. Used in fill up stations in this way is not silly. And, no Mr Bush, coal is not a renewable source of energy(lol) GM,Ford, Daimler are all betting their future on hybrids and hydrogen platforms, at first probably generated from fossil fuels. We have to make some very tough choices about our energy future and are going to have to utilise all manner of renewable technologies to even put a dent in what we need to power the planet. Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallex, If you think this is silly, you just wait, I heard that they will start to use it in cars also. LOL Hakan At 07:48 PM 4/26/2005, you wrote: it sounds kind of silly. Maybe they hope to market it to people who want to see themselves as environmentally responsable while still being able to drive their gas hogs regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network ÊÊ 1000+ news sources-resources ÊÊupdated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Get your daily alternative energy news http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
I have had a capacitor failure on this type of pump it had only done a couple of batches - I got a warranty replacement but wonder if temperature rise from pumping hot oil rather than cold water was a factor - it occurred on a very hot day. Mike in Australia. At 11:14 PM 26/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: Hello, I've been using the Harbor Freight 1 1/2 hp clear water pump in a closed reactor Appleseed setup for some test batches Approximate 37 gal of WVO + 7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The pump is struggling to pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water heater). In fact the pump doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at this point from a lower valve outlet! I know the pump is not only underrated, but possible not working! (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with this new pump) Note: I need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is 5 feet. Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the reactor and also to provide better circulating mixing and need to simply upgrade this pump. Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186catname=waterkeyword=WPCA Also: http://www.mcmaster.com/ But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some pumps don't recommend liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I hope to purchase this unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
OK Hakan. You will notice that I was trying to keep an open mind to a new idea. I can say with confidence that I have no plans to put anything other than wood in my fireplace. But, if you enjoy blind siding members of this group with juvenile remarks like but who cares, it is the modern way of having a romantic moment, you might not realize how some of your peers in this group see someone who has traded objectivity for pointless sarcasm. Is this your method for inspiring others -- ridicule? Maybe it's a way of boosting your own self esteem. Either way, there's nothing good in it. How about an attempt at some useful information next time -- without attacking any of your peers. Mike --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, At 07:56 PM 4/26/2005, you wrote: I don't see conflicting opinions. I just see different motives. Agreed; H2 via electrolysis is not efficient by most comparisons. But, since when is a fireplace anyone's first choice for an efficient means of heating a home? Yet millions of people (including myself and other environmentally conscious individuals) choose to use fuel inefficiently from time to time You must mean most of the time. and create a pleasant atmosphere -- especially when family and friends are gathered together during their time off. Although it's hard to quantify, there is value in activities like sitting in front of a fireplace. and doing the right thing, burning water. An expensive school experiment, but who cares, it is the modern way of having a romantic moment. Burning the money will give less BTU anyway, or maybe not, the way that the $ is heading. Hakan Mike Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You still run into H2 storage issues. You would have to spend days making H2 just to run the fireplace for a few of hrs. Why bother? It is more efficient to use the energy in another manor. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:12 Subject: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21 If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient. Michael Redler wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis. Does anyone have a link with some stats? Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea. Kirk Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: Hi all, This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard electrolysis of water. You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed. Company states output at around 31,000 btu's. It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite a few clones will be available. Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the room air. The world's first hydrogen-burning fireplace launches next generation of hearth products http://www.heatnglo.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=33 Get your daily alternative energy news http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
Point taken. Mike --- robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: I don't see conflicting opinions. I just see different motives. Agreed; H2 via electrolysis is not efficient by most comparisons. But, since when is a fireplace anyone's first choice for an efficient means of heating a home? Yet millions of people (including myself and other environmentally conscious individuals) choose to use fuel inefficiently from time to time and create a pleasant atmosphere -- especially when family and friends are gathered together during their time off. Given that hydrogen burns with a nearly invisible flame, it's hard to visualize this kind of benefit. Although it's hard to quantify, there is value in activities like sitting in front of a fireplace. I can understand that. However, there is so much hype concerning hydrogen as an energy carrier, as if it's some grand solution to all of our energy problems, that many responses to this thread carry a measure of disgust. Why can't we simply use LESS energy, rather than touting a technology that will increase energy waste? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] sillyness-was- hydrogen fire place
Hi, I do not think that we will produce hydrogen for filling up cars, from wind, PV and may I also add hydro. The latter because the Norwegians already offer solutions. Hydrogen from renewable is needed and best used in hydrogen powered electricity generation for peak demand and periods of low output from wind etc. This can also be done with industry class security and such storage solutions will be needed. If it ever going to be a use for transport in about 30 years, which is the auto industry's own early estimate, then I am not going to bet against you on the use of coal and nuclear. Since it is good odds for that hydrogen will be found impractical for transport, other than for disguised illegal trade subsidies, I might consider a bet on this. I am however 64 now and it is even a much lesser chance that I will never know how it turns out, betting is not really feasible. Hakan At 06:17 AM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Hi Hakan, Well I think that it is silly to use fossil produced electricity for an electrolizer to burn hydrogen in a fireplace. Not efficient at all and a waste of juice. There is nothing renewable about that idea. I also just learned that the company has been having problems with the units. Seems the front keeps blowing off!! I also think it is silly to power the so called hydrogen economy from fossil/nuclear/coal/LNG cracked hydrogen, although LNG produced hydrogen is cleaner than what we have now and will probably power most of the initial hydrogen hybrids. It is also a good bet that nuclear produced hydrogen will play a significant part as well. I would maybe suggest that the waste products be mixed with cement and made into bricks to build homes for politicians with! I don't think it is silly to use wind, PV and other renewable sources to generate hydrogen. There are already on site units made by Stuart and others that can run on wind and PV. Used in fill up stations in this way is not silly. And, no Mr Bush, coal is not a renewable source of energy(lol) GM,Ford, Daimler are all betting their future on hybrids and hydrogen platforms, at first probably generated from fossil fuels. We have to make some very tough choices about our energy future and are going to have to utilise all manner of renewable technologies to even put a dent in what we need to power the planet. Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallex, If you think this is silly, you just wait, I heard that they will start to use it in cars also. LOL Hakan At 07:48 PM 4/26/2005, you wrote: it sounds kind of silly. Maybe they hope to market it to people who want to see themselves as environmentally responsable while still being able to drive their gas hogs regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Get your daily alternative energy news http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid news resources forums http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ---Original Message--- ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
Mike, It was not really meant as ridicule of anything else than the contraption as such. It was a way to tell you that this thing probably will sell good enough to make profits. It is almost impossible to look at this thing with anything more than humor and if it is anyone out there that belive that this is a serious product, I am sorry that I could not refrain from laughing. This apart from the other and more serious debate we can have about hydrogen. This product was developed to capitalize from the hydrogen hype and to be sold as a status symbol for some that think that they can prove their environmental concerns this way. It is in the same class as the hydrogen Swartzenagger Hummer, but it is only my opinion and please do not get hurt feelings because of it. I am very sorry if I offended you, I had no idea that it was such a serious issue for you and you are right in that case. It was very insensitive of me and I apologize to you and other peers in the same situation as you. Anyway, it will sell and make good profits for the company, that I am sure of. Hakan At 06:27 AM 4/27/2005, you wrote: OK Hakan. You will notice that I was trying to keep an open mind to a new idea. I can say with confidence that I have no plans to put anything other than wood in my fireplace. But, if you enjoy blind siding members of this group with juvenile remarks like but who cares, it is the modern way of having a romantic moment, you might not realize how some of your peers in this group see someone who has traded objectivity for pointless sarcasm. Is this your method for inspiring others -- ridicule? Maybe it's a way of boosting your own self esteem. Either way, there's nothing good in it. How about an attempt at some useful information next time -- without attacking any of your peers. Mike --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, At 07:56 PM 4/26/2005, you wrote: I don't see conflicting opinions. I just see different motives. Agreed; H2 via electrolysis is not efficient by most comparisons. But, since when is a fireplace anyone's first choice for an efficient means of heating a home? Yet millions of people (including myself and other environmentally conscious individuals) choose to use fuel inefficiently from time to time You must mean most of the time. and create a pleasant atmosphere -- especially when family and friends are gathered together during their time off. Although it's hard to quantify, there is value in activities like sitting in front of a fireplace. and doing the right thing, burning water. An expensive school experiment, but who cares, it is the modern way of having a romantic moment. Burning the money will give less BTU anyway, or maybe not, the way that the $ is heading. Hakan Mike Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You still run into H2 storage issues. You would have to spend days making H2 just to run the fireplace for a few of hrs. Why bother? It is more efficient to use the energy in another manor. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:12 Subject: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21 If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient. Michael Redler wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis. Does anyone have a link with some stats? Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea. Kirk Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: Hi all, This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard electrolysis of water. You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed. Company states output at around 31,000 btu's. It is a pretty simple idea so I expect it won't be long before quite a few clones will be available. Certainly doesn't help solve the energy crisis though it will burn clean and has the option of adding the oxygen to the
Re: [Biofuel] Orange an not so clear biodiesel
It seems you're making good progress, well done! Clarity can take a little time (with biodiesel and in all human affairs, LOL!). If it's taking really a long time maybe there's a problem. Try heating it to 45-50 deg C and let it cool in a vented container. If it clouds up again on cooling, do it again. But you shouldn't have to do that, unless you're in a big hurry. We think good quality biodiesel is a golden yellow colour, and all our work confirms that, but there's quite a lot of controversy over it and I won't argue, to each his own. Using more catalyst might not be the answer if the reaction is not going to completion (or rather near enough to completion, it never reaches completion). Best to stick to your titration results, but do anything you can to try to improve the accuracy of your titration. More likely, if the reaction isn't going far enough it's because your mixing time is too short. I don't know what sort of agitation you're using, but 20 minutes is probably not long enough. A blender is that quick, but for single-stage base with our test-batch mini-processor, which uses an electric drill running at half-speed, we process one-litre test batches for an hour, and 130-135 deg F is a better processing temperature than 110-120 deg F. Check what Prof. Michael Allen has to say about how the process works: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html The Deepthort 100B - Batch Reactor for Making Methyl Esters as a Petro-diesel Substitute See The Design of 'Deepthort': The third stage of the reaction is the slowest of the three and takes up to 40 minutes at 60 deg C (140 deg F). Well worth a thorough read. More information here: Kinetics of Transesterification of Soybean Oil, H. Noureddini and D. Zhu, Journal of the American Oil Chemists' Society, Vol. 74, no. 11 (1997). This study investigates what actually happens during the transesterifcation process to produce biodiesel. The effect of variations in mixing intensity and temperature on the rate of reaction were studied at a constant ratio of alcohol to triglycerol and concentration of catalyst. Acrobat file, 540Kb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/kinetics.pdf (Thanks Fred!!!) Kinetics of Palm Oil Transesterification in a Batch Reactor, by D. Darnoko and Munir Cheryan, University of Illinois, Department of Food Science and Human Nutrition, Agricultural Bioprocess Laboratory, Journal of the American Oil Chemists' Society (JAOCS) Vol. 77, No. 12 (2000) --What happens during the biodiesel process reaction. Acrobat file, 72Kb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/transesterification%20paper.pdf HTH Best wishes Keith Hi everyone, Iâve been making a lot of progress but have run into some trouble. Iâve been doing a lot of semi-small batches before I do a larger 35gallon batch in my processor. I get oil that only needs between 2-3 ml to turn my phenolphthalein a light pink so it comes out to 5.5-6.5 grams of NaOH per liter of oil and I used 20% methanol by volume of my WVO. I mix for about 20 min and keep the temperature between 110-120 degrees F. After it settles for 24 hours I get a very distinct layer of glycerin and the rest is biodiesel. The glycerin is a solid jelly like paste. I washed it using the bubble method and the water was initially a milky white but eventually turned clear. My problem is that the clarity of the biodiesel is not the greatest. It is a slightly dark orange color with a ph in the 6-7 range(all I have is ph paper to test the final product). It did get clearer with washing but not by much. I still cannot see though my batches and I know good quality biodiesel is golden yellow color and very transparent. My stuff is defiantly not good quality yet. I think I need to add some more NaOH. I read somewhere that a orange color means the reaction did not go to completion and that more catalyst should be used. I would greatly appreciate any outside insight and I hope I provided enough of the finer details. Thanks again everyone, Theo Chadzichristos ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
Hello, I've been using the Harbor Freight 1 1/2 hp clear water pump in a closed reactor Appleseed setup Good luck! for some test batches Approximate 37 gal of WVO + 7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The pump is struggling to pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water heater). In fact the pump doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at this point from a lower valve outlet! I know the pump is not only underrated, but possible not working! I think so, sounds like it's faulty. A 1 Harbor Freight clear water pump can easily lift hot oil 2ft. By the way, is it working at 1 or did you plumb it down to 3/4? (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with this new pump) Note: I need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is 5 feet. I don't know, but I think it had be able to do that too. These pumps were recommended by the people who who promote these reactors, and I've see quite a few photographs of them fitted and in use, so if they weren't even lifting it to the top I guess they'd have noticed. We pointed out some time ago that these pumps are not powerful enough to mix that volume of oil effectively in the given time (one hour), among other problems with those reactors, and hence the poor results, but it was half a year later before the Appleseed people starting hinting that maybe the pump wasn't strong enough. I'd say 25 gallons is the limit for the 1 clear water pump, unless you want to live with much longer processing times. But it should surely be able to lift the oil five feet. Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the reactor and also to provide better circulating mixing and need to simply upgrade this pump. Yes, for that size reactor. Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186catname=wa terkeyword=WPCA Also: http://www.mcmaster.com/ But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some pumps don't recommend liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I hope to purchase this unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. We've used a 1 Harbor Freight clear water pump for 72-litre batches (19 gal) for 18 months now, it's done hundreds of batches without any problems at all. Nice pump, hot oil no problem. I managed to drop the whole thing, pump down, when we moved house and the plastic casing on top broke. I patched it up with epoxy and it's fine, no damage to the pump itself. Best wishes Keith Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Greetings, Regarding Tom Reeds woodgas camp stove and its requirement for a primary air source (battery powered), what about a mechanical windup clockwork system to drive the fan. You can visit the web site www.freeplayenergy.com to see what I mean. Have fun! Derrick Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Pan Greeting Keith Even though we spend several hours of search in Internet about gelled fuel, we are not able to find any information about the use of the cellulose , but which have been reported to be very successful. Thank you Keith bringing here real practical experience ,how to make yourself work , which is the real objective of this group. sharing knowledge , practical one on biofuel applications and social neworking based on this knoweldge. My pleasure, I do hope it helps. Ethanol production is widespread in most rural areas, whether legal or not, so it's an existing knowledge base that can be added to for local fuel production needs. I'm looking forward to doing more work on this, and really looking forward to getting into ethanol production here this summer. As well as biogas production, as we discussed previously, hoping among other things to find out how best to utilise raw by-product from biodiesel production for methane production. A pressing problem for us, as our work with burning it as a winter heating fuel wasn't successful (though we solved the heating fuel problem another way, with low-conversion 5% methanol biodiesel). Progress isn't fast, but it's steady, we'll get there I'm sure. All of us. Solid biofuel is poor rural man need , even India lack research in this field, eventhough India has the simple and solid biofuel social technology making use of cowdung , any dried leaves , solar drying , amk possible removing animal waste from big cites by self employed poor social enterprenuers, reusing the wastes solids, instead of incinerating and land fill dumping , selling this one as good poor man fuel of the low cost .But this simple social self employed best technology is excluded by the conventional technology of urbanization using gaseous biofuel is pushed nowadays. Composting was put on a firm scientific footing in the 1920s by Sir Albert Howard in India, working with Indian peasants. (He said they were his professors. Pests and weeds were also his professors.) One of his aims was to extend the use of cowdung, because its use as solid fuel didn't leave enough for fertilising the soil. He found that properly made compost with only 20% cowdung content and the rest plant material was more effective than 100% cowdung (that's definitely true), so there was enough for both needs. Very good work! Jelled biofuel with clean burning using novel products and process can be as important project as that of BioD that appear to have impact as social technology as the cow dung based solid fuel technology. I agree. It has had very good results in some areas. I think it's different from BioD, they can fill different needs, different niches. They can be complementary, especially with your idea of integrated local biofuels projects. A missing piece in this puzzle is replacing kerosene for cooking stove fuel. Biodiesel works very well in pressure stoves (roarers), but not in wick stoves, unless they're specially designed. What would be more useful would be a wick stove, or any simple stove, that burns SVO, which will always be more easily available than biodiesel in rural areas. There are some ideas and some designs, but it's not there yet, needs more work. Another missing piece is what Robert was saying about Tom Reed's woodgas camp stoves - they work very well, but only because there's a battery to drive a fan for the primary air supply. I've been part of several intensive discussions with the stoves people on how to achieve this level of efficiency and control without a power source, and it's got nowhere, so far. I sort of gave up our work with woodgas stoves for the time being, hoping to find better answers for cooking with liquid biofuels rather than biomass. I have found some answers, much more to be done still. Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. Thankyou Pan, but if you thank me I think you
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose
Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fuelslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoú was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Keith Addison wrote: This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
Hi Kevin, My personal advise to you is to get a pump that is truly rated for the work at hand.A gear pump for Graingers is a great pump to use for your process. Yoy will need an electric motor closed design and two pullys,a belt to drive the pump at the correct speed.If the motor is rated at 1800 r.p.m. and the pump is to be driven at 900 r.p.m. you will need one pully 3inches in dia. and the other pully 6inches in dia.with the large pully on the motor and the small pully on the pump, hope this helps!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Michael Fleetwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have had a capacitor failure on this type of pump it had only done a couple of batches - I got a warranty replacement but wonder if temperature rise from pumping hot oil rather than cold water was a factor - it occurred on a very hot day. Mike in Australia. At 11:14 PM 26/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: Hello, I've been using the Harbor Freight 1 1/2 hp clear water pump in a closed reactor Appleseed setup for some test batches Approximate 37 gal of WVO + 7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The pump is struggling to pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water heater). In fact the pump doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at this point from a lower valve outlet! I know the pump is not only underrated, but possible not working! (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with this new pump) Note: I need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is 5 feet. Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the reactor and also to provide better circulating mixing and need to simply upgrade this pump. Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186catname=waterkeyword=WPCA Also: http://www.mcmaster.com/ But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some pumps don't recommend liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I hope to purchase this unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
Who is they? Where was this being done? Without those trivial little details, your message does little to increase the signal to noise ratio on the list. jh JD2005 wrote: Hi Bob; There's not anything much more to add only that they were putting mildly radioactive material in washing powder to make the laundry dry more quickly.:-) JD2005 - Original Message - From: bob allen whoa doggies, could you elaborate on this a little? JD2005 wrote: I do not agree with the utilisation of water to get wasser stoff (hydrogen) but it is possible to dissociate water with radioactive material such as they are putting in washing power these days to make laundry dry more quickly. JD2005 - Original Message - From: bob allen I guess if you ran the electrolysis device in your living room to recover the lost heat, but still there have to be better ways to provide space heat. It would be just as efficient and a lot cheaper to run a bare nichrome wire for heat. Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21 If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient. Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis. Does anyone have a link with some stats? Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea. Kirk Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: Hi all, This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard electrolysis of water. You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- John E Hayes, M.S. Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215 Doctoral Student, Nutritional Sciences University of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
um, whatever floats your boat Bob. We've been talking about the efficiency/effectiveness of H2 in a fireplace me too , the value of a fireplace as an efficient source of heat me too and power sources for electrolysis. me too. It seems a little silly to use electricity, whatever the source, to make hydrogen, burn it (invisible flame) for heat or entertainment. The same amount of energy would produce more heat, and have a greater visual effect by running that electricity thru a wire with a high resistance, causing it to heat to redness. toodles -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
Why not make a Cellular concrete housing? Cellular concrete is made by adding foam (which looks like shaving foam) to a cement mortar mix. Check buildlite.com.au or other googled resources for more info. regards Doug On Thursday 28 April 2005 4:53, JD2005 wrote: Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy.Presumably, because it's such a big engine.It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay.Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof.Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement!If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
Hakan, I am a design engineer and inventor with dual degrees in mechanical and electrical engineering. I'm not telling you this to impress you, boost my self-image or promote college as the only conduit for knowledge. But, I want you to know that I've made an effort to understand how things work and based on that knowledge, I understand the problems -- even the fraud associated with the so called hydrogen economy. Unlike you, I will leave open the possibility for an apparent, present day failure/fraud to reveal itself as a useful technology in the future, either by it's evolution or an application that doesn't currently exist. I find it difficult to believe that someone will first laugh at a new idea, then keep an open mind for it's potential later. Mike Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, It was not really meant as ridicule of anything else than the contraption as such. It was a way to tell you that this thing probably will sell good enough to make profits. It is almost impossible to look at this thing with anything more than humor and if it is anyone out there that belive that this is a serious product, I am sorry that I could not refrain from laughing. This apart from the other and more serious debate we can have about hydrogen. This product was developed to capitalize from the hydrogen hype and to be sold as a status symbol for some that think that they can prove their environmental concerns this way. It is in the same class as the hydrogen Swartzenagger Hummer, but it is only my opinion and please do not get hurt feelings because of it. I am very sorry if I offended you, I had no idea that it was such a serious issue for you and you are right in that case. It was very insensitive of me and I apologize to you and other peers in the same situation as you. Anyway, it will sell and make good profits for the company, that I am sure of. Hakan At 06:27 AM 4/27/2005, you wrote: OK Hakan. You will notice that I was trying to keep an open mind to a new idea. I can say with confidence that I have no plans to put anything other than wood in my fireplace. But, if you enjoy blind siding members of this group with juvenile remarks like but who cares, it is the modern way of having a romantic moment, you might not realize how some of your peers in this group see someone who has traded objectivity for pointless sarcasm. Is this your method for inspiring others -- ridicule? Maybe it's a way of boosting your own self esteem. Either way, there's nothing good in it. How about an attempt at some useful information next time -- without attacking any of your peers. Mike --- Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, At 07:56 PM 4/26/2005, you wrote: I don't see conflicting opinions. I just see different motives. Agreed; H2 via electrolysis is not efficient by most comparisons. But, since when is a fireplace anyone's first choice for an efficient means of heating a home? Yet millions of people (including myself and other environmentally conscious individuals) choose to use fuel inefficiently from time to time You must mean most of the time. and create a pleasant atmosphere -- especially when family and friends are gathered together during their time off. Although it's hard to quantify, there is value in activities like sitting in front of a fireplace. and doing the right thing, burning water. An expensive school experiment, but who cares, it is the modern way of having a romantic moment. Burning the money will give less BTU anyway, or maybe not, the way that the $ is heading. Hakan Mike Greg Harbican wrote: You still run into H2 storage issues. You would have to spend days making H2 just to run the fireplace for a few of hrs. Why bother? It is more efficient to use the energy in another manor. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork To: Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:12 Subject: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21 If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient. Michael Redler wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis. Does anyone have a link with some stats? Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
JD, It is good that it is in the cellar, that make it easy to do vibration insulation, which is dependent of the mass of foundation. I need noise data, you should be able to get it from Changfa. It does not matter, but dB in octave band with spread diagram is best. Minimum you get is always dB(A) weighted values. What is important is that measurement conditions are specified. If I have those, it is often possible to do reasonable calculations. They obviously have some sort of muffler and it is often adopted to best performance, therefore it is better to box it in. This will not be negative for performance. We can do a reasonable housing with gypsum plates, but it is the venting that is the critical. It is a long time since I did engines, but I were involved with the initial work on sound proofing Atlas Copco compressors, some 35+ years ago. With this experiences and our advice they invested in an advanced sound lab., with experienced staff. I think that they profiled themselves very successfully as the market leader on silent compressor products. We do not have to go that far. LOL Hakan At 08:53 AM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy.Presumably, because it's such a big engine.It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay.Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof.Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement!If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] BioDiesel in San Antonio Texas
I am new to the quest for alternative fuels and would like to know if there are any groups/individuals already producing Homebrewed Biodiesel in San Antonio, Texas. Thanks for the help. Larry ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
You need to control air temperature as well. As for vibration there are rubber clad cork or polymer isolation mounts that are used by installers of equipment such as air conditioning packages. Each square inch supports a certain weight so you can determine what you need. Kirk JD2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy. Presumably, because it's such a big engine. It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay. Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof. Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement! If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
Bob, me too? Then why are you quoting me in your response instead of using your own words? Because you thought you'd be clever by suggesting we Instead gather around a nice red nichrome wire. ...not funny of clever. You and Hakan -- what's with you guys? Mike bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: um, whatever floats your boat Bob. We've been talking about the efficiency/effectiveness of H2 in a fireplace me too , the value of a fireplace as an efficient source of heat me too and power sources for electrolysis. me too. It seems a little silly to use electricity, whatever the source, to make hydrogen, burn it (invisible flame) for heat or entertainment. The same amount of energy would produce more heat, and have a greater visual effect by running that electricity thru a wire with a high resistance, causing it to heat to redness. toodles -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
Doug, Because chances are that it is not that effective as sound insulation and rather the opposite, it will work like a microphone membrane. Sweden has been leading in this field and it is a lot of manufacturing of Ytong around the world, on license from the Swedish company. Again, 35+ years ago I participated in the work to develop methods for sound insulation in buildings of prefabricated Ytong elements. Ytong and cellular concrete poses quite special problems when it comes to both sound and vibration insulation. For a small project like this, a construction with 13 mm gypsum plates (fire protection also) and mineral wool could be both very effective and low cost. The critical is not the wall, it is vibration against low frequency sound, because it is low rpm and one or two pistons on this kind of engines. The venting and cooling is the challenge, but the radiator is separate as I understand it and can be placed outside the insulation box, which makes it easier. You could even use the cooling for production of hot water and additional heating to the building. If fact with cooling/heatpump from electricity, you will get a very good cogeneration system. http://energysavingnow.com/plugin/hvacpump.shtml http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/energymove.shtml http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/acunits.shtml etc. Hakan At 02:31 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Why not make a Cellular concrete housing? Cellular concrete is made by adding foam (which looks like shaving foam) to a cement mortar mix. Check buildlite.com.au or other googled resources for more info. regards Doug On Thursday 28 April 2005 4:53, JD2005 wrote: Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy.Presumably, because it's such a big engine.It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay.Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof.Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement!If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] USAID: Making the world hungry for GM crops
25 April 2005 http://www.grain.org/go/usaid MAKING THE WORLD HUNGRY FOR GM CROPS The United States government is forcing genetically modified (GM) crops onto countries around the world. A new report [1] by GRAIN shows how the US agency for international development (USAID) is a central part of its multi-pronged strategy. USING CARROTS... The report demonstrates how the US government uses financial incentives and agricultural support to steer governments into opening their countries to GM crops. And USAID in particular has been using a number of different strategies to ensure that this happens as quickly as possible. Within target countries, GM projects are quickly set up with the support of a barrage of workshops. USAID is not the neutral international aid agency looking to help countries assess the implications of GM crops. Instead, they're out to spread GM crops for the benefit of US corporations - pure and simple, said GRAIN. ... AND STICKS And when the incentives don't work, the US government uses sticks to ensure that countries toe the US line. USAID assistance is always backed up by aggressive bilateral and multilateral dealings. For example, the US suddenly pulled out of bilateral negotiations with Egypt on a free trade deal when the country crossed the US in its GM policy. I can relate all of these problems to Egypt's decision to withdraw its support for the US challenge on the ban of imports of genetically modified foods to the EU, said Mostafa Zaki, of the Egyptian Federation of Chambers of Commerce UNPLEASANT RELATIONSHIPS The relationship between USAID, US corporations and pro-GM institutions is very close, often seamless. The report investigates some of these relationships and discovers a tangled web of a powerful network with the sole aim of pushing GM crops on the four corners of the world. Ultimately this is all about smoothing the way for US GM corporations to import their own GM crops said GRAIN. === NOTES: [1] GRAIN, 2005, USAID: Making the world hungry for GM crops, GRAIN Briefing, 30pp http://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=191. This briefing examines how the US government uses USAID to actively promote GM agriculture. The focus is on USAID's major programmes for agricultural biotechnology (such as ABSP and PBS) and the regions where these programmes are most active in parts of Africa and Asia. These USAID programmes are part of a multi-pronged strategy to advance US interests with GM crops. Increasingly the US government uses multilateral and bilateral free trade agreements and high-level diplomatic pressure to push countries towards the adoption of many key bits of corporate-friendly regulations related to GM crops. And this external pressure has been effectively complimented by lobbybing and funding from national and regional USAID biotech networks. View and download from: http://www.grain.org/go/usaid === GOING FURTHER: GM Watch, website focusing on the use of hype, propaganda and spin to promote GM, and on exposing the role played by corporate-friendly scientists, industry front groups, PR companies, lobbyists, and political groups: http://www.gmwatch.org/ Caroline Brenner, Telling Transgenic Technology Tales: Lessons from the Agricultural Biotechnology Support Project (ABSP) Experience, ISAAA Briefs No. 31. ISAAA: Ithaca, NY. 2004: http://www.isaaa.org/kc Mariam Mayet, Africa: the new frontier for the GE Industry, Third World Resurgence, Issue NO. 159-160, Feb 2004: http://www.biosafetyafrica.net/briefing_papers.htm Herbert Docena, Silent Battalions of 'Democracy', Middle East Report 232, Fall 2004: http://www.merip.org/mer/mer232/mer232.html Greenpeace, USAID and GM Food Aid, October 2002, http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/5243.pdf Noah Zerbe, Feeding the Famine? American Food Aid and the GMO Debate in Southern Africa, The GE Information Bulletin, No. 31, March 2005: http://www.geinfo.org.nz/032005/03.html === OTHER EMAIL LISTS OF INTEREST: BIO-IPR BIO-IPR is an email list to circulate information about recent developments in the field of intellectual property rights related to biodiversity associated knowledge. To subscribe visit: http://www.grain.org/subscribe/bioipr.cfm BILATERALS.ORG WEEKLY bilaterals.org weekly is a free electronic service for those who want to be informed by email of the latest news articles, analyses and other postings available at http://www.bilaterals.org. Each Friday, subscribers get a list of the latest entries in summary format. To subscribe visit http://www.bilaterals.org/lists/index.php?p=subscribe NOTE: This is not a GRAIN email list, but we recommend you subscribe if you are interested in the issues. ___ Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
And you could quadruple the space heat by using such high quality energy as the electrolyzer uses to run a heat pump. Using electricity even as resistance heat is wasteful. To halve it in an electrolyzer compounds the problem. Commerce is not the test. We have all seen foolish products that are about the money grab and not usefulness to society. Using high quality energy such as electricity for resistance heat -- as an engineer I have to say it only makes sense in special applications. To throw away more to produce an invisible flame in a fireplace -- sigh. If the flame heats something to incandescence for visual effect why not use resistance heat in the first place and use half the power? If we are going to complain about SUVs this product is the icing on the cake. Kirk bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: um, whatever floats your boat Bob. We've been talking about the efficiency/effectiveness of H2 in a fireplace me too , the value of a fireplace as an efficient source of heat me too and power sources for electrolysis. me too. It seems a little silly to use electricity, whatever the source, to make hydrogen, burn it (invisible flame) for heat or entertainment. The same amount of energy would produce more heat, and have a greater visual effect by running that electricity thru a wire with a high resistance, causing it to heat to redness. toodles -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
I started out with a simple statement about fireplaces and how they aren't the first choice for heating one's home. That is to say that I don't care what people use as a fireplace. Wood, gas, HYDROGEN; The point that I was trying to make is that when it comes to a fireplace, I'm not sure how relevant it is to efficiently heating you home. I think one can argue that a fireplace has more to do with recreation than than energy efficiency. So, if you want to experiment with hydrogen in your fireplace and you understand it's relevance to conservation, you will be making a decision about its value in terms of recreation. Having said that and agreeing with people like Robert about the value (or lack thereof) of hydrogen as a viable alternative today, I'm hoping that I don't see any more responses to my post that diverge from my original argument. More importantly, I hope that we can go back to some more constructive dialog. My point was a minor one and I would be happy to point out to anyone that it does not deserve this much attention!. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
Hi, we operate a Changfa 16-18 hours daily. Ours is in a small 10'x10' insulated building. I converted the muffler system to an agricultural tractor muffler, so the only noise from the gen set is the sound of a tractor muffler (low hum and no engine noise at all). john -Original Message- From: JD2005 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy.Presumably, because it's such a big engine.It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay.Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof.Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement!If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
What is you basis for the comment? What we want to know, is what proof do you have for making it?We want to know, because it sounds like something out of 'Alice in Wonderland' Greg H. - Original Message - From: JD2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 00:38 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place Hi Bob; There's not anything much more to add only that they were putting mildly radioactive material in washing powder to make the laundry dry more quickly.:-) JD2005 - Original Message - From: bob allen whoa doggies, could you elaborate on this a little? JD2005 wrote: I do not agree with the utilisation of water to get wasser stoff (hydrogen) but it is possible to dissociate water with radioactive material such as they are putting in washing power these days to make laundry dry more quickly. JD2005 - Original Message - From: bob allen I guess if you ran the electrolysis device in your living room to recover the lost heat, but still there have to be better ways to provide space heat. It would be just as efficient and a lot cheaper to run a bare nichrome wire for heat. Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21 If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient. Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis. Does anyone have a link with some stats? Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea. Kirk Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: Hi all, This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard electrolysis of water. You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
Mike, Are you trying to shift my postings about the subject matter to a much wider hydrogen discussion? I said that I try to look at things like the described device Hydrogen Fire Place and the Hydrogen Hummer with humor and keep it apart from eventual serious discussions about Hydrogen economy. I have apologized for the insensitivity towards you and the peers for laughing, since you take those products seriously and as representative for serious possible hydrogen applications. What more do you want? I have also, in other postings, made my beliefs clear about using hydrogen in automobiles and I have also made it clear that I think it can be useful as storage technique in electricity generation. For a long time and maybe forever, US will find it difficult to compete as International buyer of Natural Gas (NG). This mainly because the currently very limited transport capacity of Liquid Natural Gas (LNG), the systems are not in place and they take a long time to build. This will give other buyers the possibility to close very long term development contracts, because they can take the deliveries and US not. We see EU, Russia, China and India very active in this. The for US energy need important NAFTA agreement concerning priority deliveries from Canada and Mexico is failing due to depletion. The need for a NAFTA agreement is weakening and resistance against it hardening in US, since Canada and Mexico are running dry. The US R/P numbers for oil is 10 years and for NG 7 years, if that is not scaring, then I do not know what is. The Hydrogen Fire Place and the Hydrogen Hummer are not going to do an yota to effect this. It is a clear, maybe favorable and maybe necessary case to expand hydrogen storage for nuclear power and to use hydrogen from coal as NG replacement. This is why you hear the expression clean coal technologies on a daily basis now, I think that this is political preparation on the same lines that clear sky made way for the start of abandoning the clean air act. Looking from the outside, these tours are quite interesting. These are and have been my positions for a long time, which I think that the list members can vouch from reading my postings. I do not understand how you can see my insensitivity regarding the Hydrogen Fire Place and the Hydrogen Hummer as contradictions. Please look at my description as an attempt to describe a factual situation and discuss this, it is not attempt to exercise American bashing. I actually find the situation interesting and in need of serious discussions. Since you mentioned it, I have triple engineering degrees in electronics, building construction, HVAC and an economic degree. Also with 35+ years of participation (sometimes full and sometimes partial) in the Swedish energy conservation program, which is considered to now have a 12 years worldwide lead. With our common qualifications, we ought to be able to discuss more serious things than the Hydrogen Fire Place and the Hydrogen Hummer. If not, the problems in US must be bigger than I thought. Hakan At 02:54 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Hakan, I am a design engineer and inventor with dual degrees in mechanical and electrical engineering. I'm not telling you this to impress you, boost my self-image or promote college as the only conduit for knowledge. But, I want you to know that I've made an effort to understand how things work and based on that knowledge, I understand the problems -- even the fraud associated with the so called hydrogen economy. Unlike you, I will leave open the possibility for an apparent, present day failure/fraud to reveal itself as a useful technology in the future, either by it's evolution or an application that doesn't currently exist. I find it difficult to believe that someone will first laugh at a new idea, then keep an open mind for it's potential later. Mike Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, It was not really meant as ridicule of anything else than the contraption as such. It was a way to tell you that this thing probably will sell good enough to make profits. It is almost impossible to look at this thing with anything more than humor and if it is anyone out there that belive that this is a serious product, I am sorry that I could not refrain from laughing. This apart from the other and more serious debate we can have about hydrogen. This product was developed to capitalize from the hydrogen hype and to be sold as a status symbol for some that think that they can prove their environmental concerns this way. It is in the same class as the hydrogen Swartzenagger Hummer, but it is only my opinion and please do not get hurt feelings because of it. I am very sorry if I offended you, I had no idea that it was such a serious issue for you and you are right in that case. It was very insensitive of me and I apologize to you and other peers in the same situation as you. Anyway, it will sell and make good profits for
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Regarding Tom Reeds woodgas camp stove and its requirement for a primary air source (battery powered), what about a mechanical windup clockwork system to drive the fan. You can visit the web site www.freeplayenergy.com to see what I mean. Have fun! Derrick Greetings Derrick Thanks for the suggestion. Clockwork radios seem to work well, but for these stoves, clockwork got tossed around a lot in those discussions (along with just about everything else), and each time it got ruled out, I don't recall just why offhand. I have been to that site though, for that purpose. Ideal would be the heat of the stove itself, and/or convection, something integral to the stove, to power the primary air fan, but, despite some elegant ideas, nothing practical has emerged. I believe one reason for that is that so little is known about how these stoves work - inverted downdraft gasifying charcoal-producing stoves, is what they are, real catchy name, eh? Tom Reed, who surely knows more than anybody about them, once said he thought about 25% of the science of IDD woodstoves is known. Probably as more is learnt the answer to integral powering of the fan will emerge. This is the one we made: http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html It works well, some quite advanced features, quite widely copied, but it's still not satisfactory. But, use a small powered fan for the air supply and it works excellently. Thanks again. Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Pan Greeting Keith snip Another missing piece is what Robert was saying about Tom Reed's woodgas camp stoves - they work very well, but only because there's a battery to drive a fan for the primary air supply. I've been part of several intensive discussions with the stoves people on how to achieve this level of efficiency and control without a power source, and it's got nowhere, so far. I sort of gave up our work with woodgas stoves for the time being, hoping to find better answers for cooking with liquid biofuels rather than biomass. I have found some answers, much more to be done still. Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. Thankyou Pan, but if you thank me I think you have to thank everyone. Most of what I know about biofuels I've gained by applying what I've learnt from list members here, for which I'm MOST grateful. Best regards Keith sd Pannirselvam snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose
Keith Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas -- Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves Jelled/Gelled Alcohol http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4). Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel. Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk) in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry. If you are new to chemistry take a look at this high school science project page. Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu elslab.htm A solid camping fuel like Sternoú was discovered several years ago when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove. Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to use an alternative fuel source. One of the campers made a gel that they could use as a solid fuel. To make this gel, chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar. The resulting mixture was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was heated using a solar reflector. Some rubbing alcohol was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned. Step 1: Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . . Step 2: Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . . Step 3: Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . . Step 4: Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . . Step 5: Combustion of fuel produced . . . Step 6: Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more] Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove http://trailquest.net/baking.html Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel - Calcium Acetate http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html Keith Addison wrote: This is from a previous message on ethanol gel: Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use it for cooking. I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're most interested in, everything required is probably available locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly ubiquitous. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] H2 fireplace image
Here is the link to the image of the Hydrogen fireplace. http://www.heatnglo.com/news/index.asp# As you can see, it is not a typical fireplace. I do not see this device being used by anyone interested in actually heating a room. It is just another vain product to be sold to wealthy people. Mikem ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
Kirk, You brought up something very important and the reason for that many make vibration insulation does not work. To have an effective insulation, it must work like a spring with space for both upward and downward movement. In many cases the designer do not realize this and over dimension it in relation to the weight of the machine. The result is that it will be to stiff and conductive instead of insulating, the same will happen with under dimensioning and too soft spring. Hakan At 04:30 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: You need to control air temperature as well. As for vibration there are rubber clad cork or polymer isolation mounts that are used by installers of equipment such as air conditioning packages. Each square inch supports a certain weight so you can determine what you need. Kirk JD2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy. Presumably, because it's such a big engine. It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay. Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof. Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement! If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Changfa Diesel Generator - Huussshhhh
We, in the Marine industry, are always enclosing our generators. In fact, most of the commercially available Marine Diesel generators come with enclosures. Obviously, if you are using a cooling method other than air-flow, this is possible. Rather than me re-design what we do here on e-mail might I suggest you go visit a marine (boating) supply store and ask them about sound-proofing material. Basically, build a box out of your desired material, make sure you have access panels where you need them, and line the box with a good heat resistant, sound deadening material and you're in business. It will help the noise level. However, some of the noise is going to be coming from your exhaust so make sure you have a good quality silencer installed as well. Keep in mind, back-pressure on the exhaust is critical (or should be taken into consideration). I don't know how your going to get that spec. from the Chinese for your application! Good Luck and let us know how you make out. Dan P.S. Don't forget to run your air intake and exhaust outside of the enclosure! You will need to install you thermal transfer system (cooling system) outside of the enclosure as well. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Biofuel Digest, Vol 8, Issue 87 Send Biofuel mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Biofuel digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed! (Michael Fleetwood) 2. Re: Orange an not so clear biodiesel (Keith Addison) 3. Re: Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed! (Keith Addison) 4. Re: Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose (MH) 5. Re: Re: hydrogen fire place (JD2005) 6. Re: Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel (Derrick Grunewald) 7. Re: Changfa diesel generator (JD2005) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:21:49 +1000 From: Michael Fleetwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed! To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi I have had a capacitor failure on this type of pump it had only done a couple of batches - I got a warranty replacement but wonder if temperature rise from pumping hot oil rather than cold water was a factor - it occurred on a very hot day. Mike in Australia. At 11:14 PM 26/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: Hello, I've been using the Harbor Freight 1 1/2 hp clear water pump in a closed reactor Appleseed setup for some test batches Approximate 37 gal of WVO + 7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The pump is struggling to pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water heater). In fact the pump doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at this point from a lower valve outlet! I know the pump is not only underrated, but possible not working! (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with this new pump) Note: I need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is 5 feet. Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the reactor and also to provide better circulating mixing and need to simply upgrade this pump. Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186catname=wate rkeyword=WPCA Also: http://www.mcmaster.com/ But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some pumps don't recommend liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I hope to purchase this unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:24:09 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Orange an not so clear biodiesel To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ; format=flowed Hi Theo It seems you're making good progress, well done! Clarity can take a little time (with biodiesel and in all human affairs, LOL!). If it's taking really a long time maybe there's a problem. Try heating it to 45-50 deg C
Re: [Biofuel] Harbor Freight Pump Upgrade needed!
Won't this pulley arrangement cause the pump to run twice (or so) the speed of the motor? Do I have thoughts right? ~BEST~ Roy ardis streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kevin, My personal advise to you is to get a pump that is truly rated for the work at hand.A gear pump for Graingers is a great pump to use for your process. Yoy will need an electric motor closed design and two pullys,a belt to drive the pump at the correct speed.If the motor is rated at 1800 r.p.m. and the pump is to be driven at 900 r.p.m. you will need one pully 3inches in dia. and the other pully 6inches in dia.with the large pully on the motor and the small pully on the pump, hope this helps!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Michael Fleetwood wrote: Hi I have had a capacitor failure on this type of pump it had only done a couple of batches - I got a warranty replacement but wonder if temperature rise from pumping hot oil rather than cold water was a factor - it occurred on a very hot day. Mike in Australia. At 11:14 PM 26/04/2005 -0400, you wrote: Hello, I've been using the Harbor Freight 1 1/2 hp clear water pump in a closed reactor Appleseed setup for some test batches Approximate 37 gal of WVO + 7 gal methoxide =42 g in a 50 gal reactor). The pump is struggling to pump oil-lift to the top of the reactor (Water heater). In fact the pump doesn't even lift the oil 2' from the outlet at this point from a lower valve outlet! I know the pump is not only underrated, but possible not working! (Maybe 4 hours total of run time with this new pump) Note: I need a pump to outlet WVO lift to reactor intake is 5 feet. Clearly I need to upgrade to pump the wvo to the reactor and also to provide better circulating mixing and need to simply upgrade this pump. Todd (Appal Energy) provided a link to: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2005010414190186catname=waterkeyword=WPCA Also: http://www.mcmaster.com/ But does anyone recommend a specific model? Some pumps don't recommend liquid heated above 120F to circulate in pumps! I hope to purchase this unit soon, so I can produce biodiesel again. Thank you, Kevin Shea Beacon, NY ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Roy Washbish Certified Health Coach A HOME BUSINESS PRODUCTS THAT WORK PRODUCTS BUSINESS HTTP://WWW.TRIVITA.COM/11393920 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] B100 DROPS BELOW PETRO PRICES IN AZ!?
charging $3.36 a gallon. I filling what I could afford but this usually meant 5 gallons per 30 gallons at most. Somehow they are now honoring some sort of $1/gallon tax credit from the Fed. and so the new price is $2.36. This seems too good to be true but I will be visiting them at lunch today to find out. -- Patrick Campbell Work: 602.896.4729 Cell: 602.723.3098 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
I think we've dealt with this issue. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
What were they adding? Who is they? Where was this being done? Without those trivial little details, your message does little to increase the signal to noise ratio on the list. jh What is you basis for the comment? What we want to know, is what proof do you have for making it?We want to know, because it sounds like something out of 'Alice in Wonderland' Greg H. Yes please. Facts please. On the other hand, Greg, Alice sometimes looks like hard-nosed pragmatism compared with some of the things that pass for reality these days. Nothing's too strange! In Gore, Okla., a uranium-processing plant is getting rid of low-level radioactive waste by licensing it as a liquid fertilizer and spraying it over 9,000 acres of grazing land. Legally. Along with more than 6.3 million pounds of lead and lead compounds, 230,000 pounds of cadmium, and 16,000 pounds of mercury, plus arsenic by the ton, all recycled into fertiliser by industrial polluters out to save a buck. Maybe the idea was to frighten the crops out of the ground quicker than just growing them. But some crops just died, what a surprise. (Dunno what happened to the folks who ate the crops that didn't die.) See, eg: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/special/fear_fields.html Seattle Times: Fear in the Fields How hazardous wastes become fertilizer http://www.ewg.org/reports/factoryfarming/fertpress.html EWG Report || Factory Farming Toxic Wastes 'Recycled' as Fertilizer Threaten U.S. Farms and Food Supply Dioxin, Lead, Mercury Spread on Crops As States Scramble to Protect Public Health On the third hand (it's a new free-power source: many hands make light work), there's this mad but official scheme in the US to recycle so-called low-level radioactive waste into common household appliances, kitchen cutlery and kiddiecars and so on. They're stayers, those folks, they seem to be persistent with it (I guess the disposal problem is also persistent), they could even push it through in the end. They seem puzzled by the opposition to their wonderful idea. Nonetheless, yes please, some facts on washing powder that glows in the dark or whatever it does. Apocryphal rumours and urban legends not welcome. Best Keith JD2005 wrote: Hi Bob; There's not anything much more to add only that they were putting mildly radioactive material in washing powder to make the laundry dry more quickly.:-) JD2005 - Original Message - From: bob allen whoa doggies, could you elaborate on this a little? JD2005 wrote: I do not agree with the utilisation of water to get wasser stoff (hydrogen) but it is possible to dissociate water with radioactive material such as they are putting in washing power these days to make laundry dry more quickly. JD2005 snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
John, A tractor type muffler is large enough to not lose power and a good idea. You can get a used one or make one yourself. You can also use one for the air intake to the box, the cellar situation is a bit more sensitive than a small shed. When I get some noise date, we will know better what we need. I think that I have seen numbers on an other site for Changfa, but do not remember where. Hakan At 05:55 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Hi, we operate a Changfa 16-18 hours daily. Ours is in a small 10'x10' insulated building. I converted the muffler system to an agricultural tractor muffler, so the only noise from the gen set is the sound of a tractor muffler (low hum and no engine noise at all). john -Original Message- From: JD2005 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy.Presumably, because it's such a big engine.It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay.Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof.Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement!If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose:solid biofuel
Ideal would be the heat of the stove itself Has anyone considered a stirling powered fan? http://www.stirlingengine.com/ Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Regarding Tom Reeds woodgas camp stove and its requirement for a primary air source (battery powered), what about a mechanical windup clockwork system to drive the fan. You can visit the web site www.freeplayenergy.com to see what I mean. Have fun! Derrick Greetings Derrick Thanks for the suggestion. Clockwork radios seem to work well, but for these stoves, clockwork got tossed around a lot in those discussions (along with just about everything else), and each time it got ruled out, I don't recall just why offhand. I have been to that site though, for that purpose. Ideal would be the heat of the stove itself, and/or convection, something integral to the stove, to power the primary air fan, but, despite some elegant ideas, nothing practical has emerged. I believe one reason for that is that so little is known about how these stoves work - inverted downdraft gasifying charcoal-producing stoves, is what they are, real catchy name, eh? Tom Reed, who surely knows more than anybody about them, once said he thought about 25% of the science of IDD woodstoves is known. Probably as more is learnt the answer to integral powering of the fan will emerge. This is the one we made: http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html It works well, some quite advanced features, quite widely copied, but it's still not satisfactory. But, use a small powered fan for the air supply and it works excellently. Thanks again. Keith Keith Addison wrote: Greetings Pan Greeting Keith Another missing piece is what Robert was saying about Tom Reed's woodgas camp stoves - they work very well, but only because there's a battery to drive a fan for the primary air supply. I've been part of several intensive discussions with the stoves people on how to achieve this level of efficiency and control without a power source, and it's got nowhere, so far. I sort of gave up our work with woodgas stoves for the time being, hoping to find better answers for cooking with liquid biofuels rather than biomass. I have found some answers, much more to be done still. Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves. Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village blacksmith can produce. Thanking once again on behalf all the developing countries , students and teacher can do better social work with this new products and good hope to have the great green future for the needful based on the biomass fuel. Thankyou Pan, but if you thank me I think you have to thank everyone. Most of what I know about biofuels I've gained by applying what I've learnt from list members here, for which I'm MOST grateful. Best regards Keith sd Pannirselvam ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: hydrogen fire place
Hi Bob; There's not anything much more to add only that they were putting mildly radioactive material in washing powder to make the laundry dry more quickly.:-) JD2005 - Original Message - From: bob allen whoa doggies, could you elaborate on this a little? JD2005 wrote: I do not agree with the utilisation of water to get wasser stoff (hydrogen) but it is possible to dissociate water with radioactive material such as they are putting in washing power these days to make laundry dry more quickly. JD2005 - Original Message - From: bob allen I guess if you ran the electrolysis device in your living room to recover the lost heat, but still there have to be better ways to provide space heat. It would be just as efficient and a lot cheaper to run a bare nichrome wire for heat. Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: I would think that you could power the electrolizer with PV or a wind generator regards tallex Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ---Original Message--- From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hydrogen fire place Sent: 25 Apr 2005 21:01:21 If your electrolyzer is 50% efficient then half the power is lost. I guess they are thinking they can make hydrogen in the daytime and burn it at night. A battery and a heatpump would be enormously more efficient. Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:OK, I did some poking around and had a little trouble finding a Watt-hr/BTU value for hydrogen production using electrolysis. Does anyone have a link with some stats? Mike Kirk McLoren wrote: Supplemental oxygen is mandatory in an unvented heater in most cases. Otherwise the oxygen level would get very low. Most ventless heaters are cycling on their low oxygen sensor as a result. Ventless heaters are cheap, thus the appeal. They are not of much use north of say Georgia. Besides, low oxygen levels are a VERY BAD idea. Kirk Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote: Hi all, This is interesting - a hydrogen fireplace. Uses standard electrolysis of water. You still have to use electricity for it to work so it is definately not free heat but it doesn't need any venting so it can be easily installed. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy.Presumably, because it's such a big engine.It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay.Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof.Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement!If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator
This is a good one thanks Doug although the foam on it's own or a foam on it's own may be just what I was looking for. I will be moving the generator tomorrow, trying to, so will get an idea of what kind of full on sound proofing I'm going to need. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:31 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Changfa diesel generator Why not make a Cellular concrete housing? Cellular concrete is made by adding foam (which looks like shaving foam) to a cement mortar mix. Check buildlite.com.au or other googled resources for more info. regards Doug On Thursday 28 April 2005 4:53, JD2005 wrote: Great Chears Hakan; It's the Changfa engine from a Jetman 12KVA generating set and it's very noisy.Presumably, because it's such a big engine.It's not, currently, sound proofed in any way but there is a baffle on the exhaust. It looks exactly like the picture on the first page of www.utterpower.com . I've seen baffles for the exhaust advertised on ebay.Would these make any significant difference to the noise? I could quite easily build a box around it with wood and line that with high temperature something or other to act as a sound proof.Do you know if this would work? What would be the best material to sound proof it with? I'm here in Oxfordshire in the UK. Slap bang in the middle of town. There is a cellar, however, part of which reaches under the pavement! If I can get the generator into this part of the cellar all aprox 200 KG of it or more and it cannot be heard on the street outside, when I run it, then I'll be quids in but if it can be heard then I've got to start thinking of ways to sound proof it so that I can sell it. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk I can look at it and maybe come up with some advices, but need information of what you mean by sound proof first. I also like to know the environment, how it is placed etc. Describe the problems. Hakan At 02:12 PM 4/27/2005, you wrote: Anybody know how to sound proof a Changfa diesel generator? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
