RE: [Biofuel] Energy content
coconuts one of the best yielding and easiest to grow.. , although its worth more per liter for cosmetics (shampoo soap etc) and cooking oil. how ever the whole dehusking bit is some what tiresome... I gave it a go a few weeks ago.. It does help you build up upper body strength =D see http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of james porakari Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Energy content Dear all, Anyone can anyone help me to find information on energy content of palm oil and Kernel oil and also coconut oil. I am doing a research on bifuels as alternatives in Solmon Islands (South Pacific). I am student at University of South Pacific, Fiji. Thanks, James __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part of the ethanol creation process? I can imagine that the micro organisms "eat" also the sugars, leaving nothing for you to ferment to sugar. Greetings, Pieter Netherlands ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy content
James, the energy content of all vegetable and animal fat/oil is about 9 kCalories/gram or about 38 kJoules/gram. james porakari wrote: Dear all, Anyone can anyone help me to find information on energy content of palm oil and Kernel oil and also coconut oil. I am doing a research on bifuels as alternatives in Solmon Islands (South Pacific). I am student at University of South Pacific, Fiji. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
i don't think there's anything about the context which implicitly leans toward either legitimate government involvement from any number of agencies, or downright censorship. it was simply stated that the game had been banned on ebay. most people would probably read that as suggesting that there is something fishy about ebay's position vis-a-vis the game( it's not an unreasonable assumption that this was marilyn's intent). whether that something be political bias on the part of ebay management, or some sort of broader conspiracy, or even the goernment itself, whichever way it leads is entirely up to the reader's imagination (not to imply that any of those conclusions would be entirely imaginary). cheers, -chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Ethanol automation
I would like to see variables and numbers put on the different processes of making ethanol in an effort to identify the equipment requirements and tolerances needed to ultimately lead to automation of the ethanol making process? Variables such as temperature in Fahrenheit or Celsius, speed in rpm, etc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate)
Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? Joe more below Joe Street wrote: Hi Bob; see comments below. bob allen wrote: Hey Joe, Joe Street wrote: Where is the toxicology? For those on the list unfamiliar with MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) and the terminology this is what is missing no LD50 (lethal dose for 50% death rate -usually tested with rats) no LC50 (lethal concentration for 50% death rate) There may not be data on sodium methoxide due to its reactivity: in the body it quickly (essentially instantaneously) equilibrates to sodium hydroxide and methanol. Well I don't know if it is that simple. for my example yes. when you combine sodium or potassium hydroxide with methanol, you establish an equilibrium: sodium hydroxide + methanol -- sodium methoxide + water addition of water such as occurs in vivo, forces the equilibrium back to the left. For example I am familar with TMAH (TetraMethylAmmonium Hydroxide) which is essentially Methanol and Ammonium Hydroxide no, not by a long shot. Tetramethylammonium hydroxide has a formula of C4H13NO. It is chemically quite different than a mixture of ammonium hydroxide (it self an equilibrium mixture of water, ammonia and ammonium hydroxide) and methanol. which is used as a modifier in semiconductor chemical etching processes. The MSDS lists a drastically different toxicity for the METHANOL component approx 5000 ppm vs the TMAH at only 25 ppm. See: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/t1816.htm I am no chemist I am and I don't know if it is fair to make this comparison since not here we are talking about ammonium hydroxide instead of potassium hydroxide but clearly the compound is much more toxic than the sum of its components. you're comparing oranges and apples. I spoke of a simple mixture NaOH/MeOH and you are talking about a compound (CH3)4 N (+) (OH)- and more importantly no TLV (Threshold Limit Value which relates to the maximum allowable exposure before serious health effects appear due to daily repeated exposure) no OEL (Time Weighted Average (TWA) which refers to what someone decides is an acceptable concentration which a worker can be exposed to over a working shift time period) TEL and OEL as far as I am aware relate only to volatiles. Sodium Methoxide is a hygroscopic solid, hence no data. The methoxide that I make by mixing 99% methanol with 85% assay KOH is volitile and definitely liquid. You are making a mixture, the volatile component of which is still methanol So I would think it should be of interest. The datasheet we found for sodium methoxide refers to a solid you are right but that just shows the relevance of the comments from before that one must know something in order to even read an MSDS and even then it may be of limited value. You are right though it is still the best info we have. I just think it is sad that the documentation does a very poor job of what the legislation ( or the intent behind the legislation) was supposed to accomplish which is to provide meaningful information to protect workers who have to handle hazardous subtsances. If you dug around long enough you may find a supplier of the mixture you are preparing. If they sell that mixture, then they have to have a MSDS on it. In this case (methoxide solution), use the methanol component msds for things such as an LD50 or TLV and the NaOH or KOH msds for other risks, such as extremely caustic, etc. It is an echo of the type of situation so often discussed in this forum where legislation which is supposed to protect people ends up having gaps and loopholes that allow big industry to go on with little more than a nod to regulations and the rest is status quo. Still it is better than no information. But not much better. I have worked with proprietary formulations of liquid teflon from dupont which required so many promises of non disclosure and confidentialty you would almost wonder if they really want anyone using the stuff and then when you finaly get it and read the MSDS it tells you there are proprietary elements which
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part of the ethanol creation process? I can imagine that the micro organisms eat also the sugars, leaving nothing for you to ferment to sugar. Pieter A related question: Mother Earth News had an article about a Missouri farmer who uses earthworms to turn distiller's grains into organic fertilizer. Could worms also break down lignin residue before distillation? If this is a dumb question, I apologize. I have made ethanol, but I am not a chemist. This farmer also has made a low energy vacuum distillation system that reduces the cost of ethanol to 38 cents a gallon. He will share his info with anyone. (See below) Read about his work at http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1980_November_Dece mber/A_Self_Sufficient_Energy__Livestock_System_ Some quotes from the article: But McCutcheon's concept of integrated farming for self-sufficiency involves more than simply producing fuels. In order to manufacture ethanol at a reasonable cost, one must take full advantage of the value of the process's by-product . . . the leftover distiller's grains. Normally, such protein-rich remains (which usually total about one-third of the raw materials' original weight) can be sold outright as a livestock feed supplement or used directly on the farm for the same purpose. Charles, however, employs the residue to produce a sizable crop of earthworms! The McCutcheon brainchild is a fiberglass-fabricated, 500-gallon-capacity still that operates under 26 inches of vacuum . . . a factor which allows it to work at a temperature of only 130 °F, as compared with the approximately 175°F that a distillery exposed to atmospheric pressure would have to achieve. To further improve the efficiency of his operation, Mr. McCutcheon uses a hardy imported yeast in his mash, which he claims can withstand as much as a 13% alcohol content, compared with the 8-10% that normal yeast can handle. The additional few percentage points of tolerance, of course, allow the tiny organisms to produce more distillable ethanol per batch of beer. EDITOR'S NOTE: Charlie McCutcheon can provide further information concerning any of his various miracle products to anyone who writes hire at McCutcheon's Midwest Miracle Marts, Dept. TMEN, Highway 5 at Lucky Street, Payette, Missouri 65248 (please include a self-addressed, stamped envelope). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
i think you need to check your facts. :^) -chris Heck, most Americans don't even know the proverbial Franklin stove (round and made of steel) has nothing to do with Ben Franklin. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
In nz, Australia and England, we make such fantastic spreads like marmite, and vegemite from the stuff left over from beer brewing, You yanks don't see to like it too much tho... http://www.marmite.com/ Cheers, Bede -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:43 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part of the ethanol creation process? I can imagine that the micro organisms eat also the sugars, leaving nothing for you to ferment to sugar. Pieter A related question: Mother Earth News had an article about a Missouri farmer who uses earthworms to turn distiller's grains into organic fertilizer. Could worms also break down lignin residue before distillation? If this is a dumb question, I apologize. I have made ethanol, but I am not a chemist. This farmer also has made a low energy vacuum distillation system that reduces the cost of ethanol to 38 cents a gallon. He will share his info with anyone. (See below) Read about his work at http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1980_November_Dece mber/A_Self_Sufficient_Energy__Livestock_System_ Some quotes from the article: But McCutcheon's concept of integrated farming for self-sufficiency involves more than simply producing fuels. In order to manufacture ethanol at a reasonable cost, one must take full advantage of the value of the process's by-product . . . the leftover distiller's grains. Normally, such protein-rich remains (which usually total about one-third of the raw materials' original weight) can be sold outright as a livestock feed supplement or used directly on the farm for the same purpose. Charles, however, employs the residue to produce a sizable crop of earthworms! The McCutcheon brainchild is a fiberglass-fabricated, 500-gallon-capacity still that operates under 26 inches of vacuum . . . a factor which allows it to work at a temperature of only 130 0F, as compared with the approximately 1750F that a distillery exposed to atmospheric pressure would have to achieve. To further improve the efficiency of his operation, Mr. McCutcheon uses a hardy imported yeast in his mash, which he claims can withstand as much as a 13% alcohol content, compared with the 8-10% that normal yeast can handle. The additional few percentage points of tolerance, of course, allow the tiny organisms to produce more distillable ethanol per batch of beer. EDITOR'S NOTE: Charlie McCutcheon can provide further information concerning any of his various miracle products to anyone who writes hire at McCutcheon's Midwest Miracle Marts, Dept. TMEN, Highway 5 at Lucky Street, Payette, Missouri 65248 (please include a self-addressed, stamped envelope). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate)
Joe Street wrote: Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further. Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Energy content
Hi James, If you are looking for oil production per hectare then I believe palm oil is at the top of the list. Check the archieves for more info. Tom Irwin From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 09:50:12 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Energy contentJames, the energy content of all vegetable and animal fat/oil is about 9 kCalories/gram or about 38 kJoules/gram.james porakari wrote: Dear all, Anyone can anyone help me to find information on energy content of palm oil and Kernel oil and also coconut oil. I am doing a research on bifuels as alternatives in Solmon Islands (South Pacific). I am student at University of South Pacific, Fiji. -- Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bob"Science is what we have learned about how to keepfrom fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
According to the judgment of history and of their contemporaries, the two foremost geniuses among the founding fathers were Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. But even geniuses make mistakes, and Franklin made a lulu with the stove he invented. It just plain did not work. In one of those examples of being too clever by half, Franklin designed it so that the smoke came out the bottom. His idea was that the stove would produce more heat, but in fact the fire went out if you looked the other way for ten seconds. The basic idea was a good one: to build a freestanding cast-iron fireplace that could be situated away from the wall, thus radiating more heat around the room. But Franklin did not really grasp that heat rises, and that the smoke would have to be removed through a pipe with access to the outside placed above the stove. Eventually the stove was redesigned by David R. Rittenhouse and was in wide use by the 1790s. Quite reasonably, he called it a Rittenhouse stove. But legend has its prerogatives; the device is known to this day as the Franklin stove. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/77 - Release Date: 18/08/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
Glad to see others are looking at this. Rich wrote: I am looking at the second chapter of Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel -Raw materials chapter at http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh2.html#2_1. I was involved in a recent thread called Re: [Biofuel] de-polymerizing cellulose not practical at this point Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms. I have by no means given up on these ideas. However as a newbie here and with biofuel I believe that I should try some of the things which these people have been doing with great success for many years before I dive head first into something that needs serious research at this stage of its development. I know I sound like a hick or worse a hippie but I'm gonna trade in my 6 cylinder gas powered tractor and get me a diesel and plant some crops on our family ranch. I particularly like the things Kim and Garth talk about with their sustainable lives. I gives me a lot of hope for the future. Oh and yip, gonna git some chickens too, because I love eggs and I had chickens before although the coyotes are troublesome here. I think the best thing to do with cellulose is combine it with cow dung as was also suggested here and make our own methane! This sounds really good to me considering that we owe the propane company $185.00 and the tank is at 10%. I shudder at the thought of buying a hundred pounds or gallons or whatever they measure that gas in. I count my blessings that we rely only on propane for the hot water heater and the cook stove. One hundred gallons has lasted for four months, still I need to get my family off of the petro-products nipple. We can not afford it anymore. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Question on methoxide
Hi friends, For some reason or another I made some horrible BD and started to doubt about what I am doing. So I decided to make a range of 12 bottles of sodiummethoxide, varying from 3½ to 9 grams of lye per liter. After mixing each liter of methanol with exactly the amount of lye, I found out that the first liter was almost still one liter, and the last liter was app. 10% less, with every next bottle a little less than the one before. If it would be the evaporation, every bottle would lose the same amount, so it must have to do something with the reaction between methanol and lye. Can anyone give me the answer on the question what is the chemical reaction ? Or is there something else happening which I don't know ? The next question is of course, do I need 200 ml of the mixture (so that would be more concentrated than 200 ml methanol + for example 4 grams of lye) ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Chris, please add quotes, and provide a link when copying text from a website. Not doing so implies you wrote the material. (If you wrote the stuff on the website, my apologies) http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/story034.htm give credit where credit is due. it's the right thing to do Chris Lloyd wrote: According to the judgment of history and of their contemporaries, the two foremost geniuses among the founding fathers were Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. But even geniuses make mistakes, and Franklin made a lulu with the stove he invented. It just plain did not work. In one of those examples of being too clever by half, Franklin designed it so that the smoke came out the bottom. His idea was that the stove would produce more heat, but in fact the fire went out if you looked the other way for ten seconds. The basic idea was a good one: to build a freestanding cast-iron fireplace that could be situated away from the wall, thus radiating more heat around the room. But Franklin did not really grasp that heat rises, and that the smoke would have to be removed through a pipe with access to the outside placed above the stove. Eventually the stove was redesigned by David R. Rittenhouse and was in wide use by the 1790s. Quite reasonably, he called it a Rittenhouse stove. But legend has its prerogatives; the device is known to this day as the Franklin stove. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] B.P. methanol m100?
Is that .90 cents a gallon? If so, Can I run my 1990 honda civic on M100? That would be a direct way to save money and burn a more environmentally safe fuel... Eriva Randriamanjatosoa wrote: Hi Felipe, it depends on what is reasonable. But it can be even cheaper -up to as low as USD .9 per gal- at www.methanex.com there must be a minimum quantity per order though, which I don't know. Try asking them at NORTH AMERICA Suite 1150 15301 Dallas Parkway Addison, TX 75001 USA T: +1 972 702 0909 F: +1 972 702 0910 Eriva --- Felipe Navarrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, This is my first post on the list so hello fellow Biofuelers. I found a source for buying methanol here in Miami Florida. Location: South florida performance 18728 SW 107th Ave Miami, FL (305) 233-8520 Product: B.P. methanol. I believe he said it was m100. This is 100% percent methanol according to the guy on the phone. Anyone familiar with this product? will this do the trick? Price: 5 gallon pale= $33 Is this a reasonable price? It must be special ordered. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) now alternative biodiesel process
Hi Bob; Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post. The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?) snip - Hi There: The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get 100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate. The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little scary. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 Ray snip- The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray?? Joe bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further. Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) now alternative biodiesel process
Joe, just a couple of comments. all kinds of claims can be made in patent applications, whether they work or not remains to be seen. the process is simple enough that one could try it and see. I did look at the patent application. some of their nomenclature is ambiguous, so it is not clear exactly what the products are claimed to be. BTW, the link you provided is unrelated. It discusses an enzyme catalyzed process. Joe Street wrote: Hi Bob; Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post. The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?) snip - Hi There: The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get 100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate. The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little scary. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 Ray snip- The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray?? Joe bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further. Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Chris, please add quotes, and provide a link when copying text from a website. Not doing so implies you wrote the material. Sorry will do in future, It should have had the header, photo and credits but they went when it converted to plain text Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/77 - Release Date: 18/08/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) now alternative biodiesel process
Hi Bob; Yes I figured the link was bogus (I guess you didn't notice my note to that effect) so where is the real patent application do you have a link? How did you find it? Ray do you have it? BTW I did a quick test last night using a tesla coil and 40ml of WVO with 15% methanol. Of course the potential was ac instead of dc but I was curious and it was an easy thing to try. I could see a light colored phase coming off the wire at the tip where the feild is most concentrated. This was at ambient conditions. I didn't see any gas bubbles (the email said a byproduct was hydrogen) until I actually drew a submerged arc which was probably just vaporized methanol. I'll have to build a proper HV stack and try it with DC. Joe bob allen wrote: Joe, just a couple of comments. all kinds of claims can be made in patent applications, whether they work or not remains to be seen. the process is simple enough that one could try it and see. I did look at the patent application. some of their nomenclature is ambiguous, so it is not clear exactly what the products are claimed to be. BTW, the link you provided is unrelated. It discusses an enzyme catalyzed process. Joe Street wrote: Hi Bob; Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post. The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?) snip - Hi There: The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get 100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate. The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little scary. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 Ray snip- The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray?? Joe bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further. Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process
Bob, Do you have the link for the correct patent? Or can you repost the relevant information? Thanks! Randall - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate)now alternative biodiesel process Joe, just a couple of comments. all kinds of claims can be made in patent applications, whether they work or not remains to be seen. the process is simple enough that one could try it and see. I did look at the patent application. some of their nomenclature is ambiguous, so it is not clear exactly what the products are claimed to be. BTW, the link you provided is unrelated. It discusses an enzyme catalyzed process. Joe Street wrote: Hi Bob; Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post. The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?) snip - Hi There: The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get 100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate. The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little scary. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 Ray snip- The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray?? Joe bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further. Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) now alternative biodiesel process
snip- The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray?? Joe My apologies http://tinyurl.com/cxukc Ray ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country
Chris, please add quotes, and provide a link when copying text from a website. Not doing so implies you wrote the material. Sorry will do in future, It should have had the header, photo and credits but they went when it converted to plain text Chris. Please send all messages in plain text in the first place. No html code or attachments. Thanks. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem
Hi Derick Hi all Uh, Houston... im not sure but I may have a problem. after many disappointing test batches I finally got several good test batches. I now moved on to a large batch using the same w v o used in the test batches. there was almost instant separation Sorry, what's that mean? Do you mean what they call a split? It changes quite suddenly from WVO to esters, or most of it does anyway. It's the rest of it that's the problem though. and as I have read mixing should be continued for 2 hours. so I left the mixer going for 2.5 hours. Movable feast. The variables are the amount of methanol used, the amount of lye used, the processing temperature, the amount of agitation and the duration of agitation, and it's the last two that might not translate so easily from a one-litre test batch to a 130-litre batch. Anyway that sounds okay. There's been some fuss about a reverse reaction when you process it for too long, but if anything that would perhaps be a minor concern for later, when you're fine-tuning it. IMHO. buy that time it was late at night and I needed to get some sleep. I left the batch for 8 hours and before I left for work I figured I would try to drain the glycerin from the bottom of my 55 gal galvanized reactor vessel. it was a block. Did it solidify in the test-batches you did with that oil? It should have done. Not that it should solidify necessarily, but if it solidified in the one then it should do in the other too. See: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More important is how much soap there is -- the more soap, the more likely the by-product layer will solidify, no matter what oil you used. Eight hours is on the quick side for settling, by the way. After work I pumped the top layer off to a wash tank. The solid mass at the bottom of the reactor was much more that I had expected it should be from 130 liters w v o I had aprox 15 gal of solid. Is it me or is there way to much solid left from what I started with? About twice as much as there would be if you got a 100% yield. We'd need to know how much lye you used and the titration results. Now I have done the first wash using the bubble wash metherd. I know I over did it to much air to fast i have 35 gal for blended oil and water. You shouldn't be able to achieve that with bubble-washing, no matter how much air or how fast. I have separated some and heated it to 140 deg F and held it for a few hours. When I get home ill see the results. If this didn't work what should i try? I have read on the postings about salt and vinegar im not sure what ether is supposed to do or what one to try. I suggest you read the whole page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html Washing: Journey to Forever Why bother? Which way is best? Mist-washing Bubble washing Stir washing Settling Recycling the wash-water Washing temperature Emulsions Using acid Wash-water disposal Drying the fuel Any input could help. Well I got home and there was little progress with the heat. Two problems: 1. How to rescue the batch. 2. How to get it right next time. We should be able to help you solve them both, I hope. Please tell us how you get on. Best wishes Keith thanks. Derick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate)
Hi Bob and all snip The methoxide that I make by mixing 99% methanol with 85% assay KOH is volitile and definitely liquid. You are making a mixture, the volatile component of which is still methanol So would it be correct to say there's no such thing as methoxide fumes? Best wishes Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] FW: a problem
Thanks Keith After reading your reply I have a sinking feeling. Maybe my filling in the blanks will help you help me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 12:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hi Derick Hi all Uh, Houston... im not sure but I may have a problem. after many disappointing test batches I finally got several good test batches. I now moved on to a large batch using the same w v o used in the test batches. there was almost instant separation Sorry, what's that mean? Do you mean what they call a split? Yes I guess it I mean as the met oxide was added it turned murky for a few min and then quickly started to clarify and thin out. It changes quite suddenly from WVO to esters, or most of it does anyway. It's the rest of it that's the problem though. and as I have read mixing should be continued for 2 hours. so I left the mixer going for 2.5 hours. Movable feast. The variables are the amount of methanol used, the Amount of lye used, the processing temperature, The amount of the met oxide was total 10 grams per liter and 20% methanol the temp was maintained at 130 to 140 deg f depending on where I put the thermometer on the drum I use a digital lazar thermometer Agitation and the duration of agitation, and it's the last two that agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning Might not translate so easily from a one-litre test batch to a 130-litre batch. The agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning Anyway that sounds okay. There's been some fuss about a reverse reaction when you process it for too long, but if anything that would perhaps be a minor concern for later, when you're fine-tuning it. IMHO. buy that time it was late at night and I needed to get some sleep. I left the batch for 8 hours and before I left for work I figured I would try to drain the glycerin from the bottom of my 55 gal galvanized reactor vessel. it was a block. Did it solidify in the test-batches you did with that oil? Yes it did. It should have done. Not that it should solidify necessarily, but if it solidified in the one then it should do in the other too. See: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? I did read this and I know that there is no set amount. I just felt there was s much, thats why I asked all of you. I will call you experts. But I am merely a novas. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More important is how much soap there is -- the more soap, the more likely the by-product layer will solidify, no matter what oil you Used.. Im not to concerned about the solids I only wish I had started earlier so I could have drained it off before it got solid. Eight hours is on the quick side for settling, by the way. So how do you let it sit for longer without getting a brick in the bottom? After work I pumped the top layer off to a wash tank. The solid mass at the bottom of the reactor was much more that I had expected it should be from 130 liters w v o I had aprox 15 gal of solid. Is it me or is there way to much solid left from what I started with? About twice as much as there would be if you got a 100% yield. We'd Need to know how much lye you used and the titration results. Titration was 5 using the world famous chopstick method. With a total of 10 grams per liter @ 20% methanol by volume. Now I have done the first wash using the bubble wash metherd. I know I over did it to much air to fast i have 35 gal for blended oil and water. You shouldn't be able to achieve that with bubble-washing, no matter how much air or how fast. I have separated some and heated it to 140 deg F and held it for a few hours. When I get home ill see the results. If this didn't work what should i try? I have read on the postings about salt and vinegar im not sure what ether is supposed to do or what one to try. I suggest you read the whole page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html I thought I had at least 3 times, Ill look again maybe I missed something or allot. Washing: Journey to Forever Why bother? Which way is best? Mist-washing Bubble washing Stir washing Settling Recycling the wash-water Washing temperature Emulsions Using acid Wash-water disposal Drying the fuel Any input could help. Well I got home and there was little progress with the heat. Two problems: 1. How to rescue the batch. 2. How to get it right next time. We should be able to help you solve them both, I hope. Please tell us how you get on. Best wishes Keith thanks. Derick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
RE: [Biofuel] biofuel and Dodge
Im very new at this. But I have had one really good batch so far and lots of bad tests. But I ran my 04 24valve on the 15 gal I had better mileage than dino and I feel better performance. About 95% bio in the tank. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Miles Dave Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] biofuel and Dodge I would like to get some input from some of you Dodge Cummins owners about how your trucks are running on biodiesel.What % biodiesel are you running and how long have you been running biodiesel? Any problems? What effect if any on fuel mileage. I own a 2001 Dodge with a H.O. 24 valve Cummins and I would like to run 100% biodiesel That has beenwashed and dried . I would appreciate any input. thanks, Dave ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Questions on drying Ethanol
Hi All, I´m trying to figure my local costs for ethanol to try some batches in BioD from waste oil. Ethanol 100% is quite expense, 95 % a bit less and 70% least costly. I have a supplier of 3A molecular sieve at about US $40 per kilogram. I was planning on starting with the 95% and running it through a column filled with about 250 grams of the 3A sieve. I generate my own electricity. Though it is a cost, I have some excess capacity. I alsohave a muffle furnace that can get at least to 550 C. The last time I worked with zeolites and molecular sieves I had access to nitrogen gas to pump through to regenerate the columns to remove bound water. I no longer have that nitrogen gas.Is it possible to regenerate the 3A mole sieve without a blanketing gas? I may be able to pump air through the column. Does my procedure seem right for removing the water from 95% ethanol? Would the same procedure work with the 70% ethanol? Thanks, Tom Irwin___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
I keep a little jar in my fridge. I love Marmite on fresh bread. Just a crazy Yank Bede wrote: In nz, Australia and England, we make such fantastic spreads like marmite, and vegemite from the stuff left over from beer brewing, You yanks don't see to like it too much tho... http://www.marmite.com/ Cheers, Bede -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 2:43 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part of the ethanol creation process? I can imagine that the micro organisms eat also the sugars, leaving nothing for you to ferment to sugar. Pieter A related question: Mother Earth News had an article about a Missouri farmer who uses earthworms to turn distiller's grains into organic fertilizer. Could worms also break down lignin residue before distillation? If this is a dumb question, I apologize. I have made ethanol, but I am not a chemist. This farmer also has made a low energy vacuum distillation system that reduces the cost of ethanol to 38 cents a gallon. He will share his info with anyone. (See below) Read about his work at http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1980_November_Dece mber/A_Self_Sufficient_Energy__Livestock_System_ Some quotes from the article: But McCutcheon's concept of integrated farming for self-sufficiency involves more than simply producing fuels. In order to manufacture ethanol at a reasonable cost, one must take full advantage of the value of the process's by-product . . . the leftover distiller's grains. Normally, such protein-rich remains (which usually total about one-third of the raw materials' original weight) can be sold outright as a livestock feed supplement or used directly on the farm for the same purpose. Charles, however, employs the residue to produce a sizable crop of earthworms! The McCutcheon brainchild is a fiberglass-fabricated, 500-gallon-capacity still that operates under 26 inches of vacuum . . . a factor which allows it to work at a temperature of only 130 0F, as compared with the approximately 1750F that a distillery exposed to atmospheric pressure would have to achieve. To further improve the efficiency of his operation, Mr. McCutcheon uses a hardy imported yeast in his mash, which he claims can withstand as much as a 13% alcohol content, compared with the 8-10% that normal yeast can handle. The additional few percentage points of tolerance, of course, allow the tiny organisms to produce more distillable ethanol per batch of beer. EDITOR'S NOTE: Charlie McCutcheon can provide further information concerning any of his various miracle products to anyone who writes hire at McCutcheon's Midwest Miracle Marts, Dept. TMEN, Highway 5 at Lucky Street, Payette, Missouri 65248 (please include a self-addressed, stamped envelope). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] RE: High energy electrode process
I didn't read the Patent, and I'm not an electrical engineer, but have worked on processes that involved high energy electrodes in liquids to produce combustible fuels (Hydrogen, CO, and other hydrocarbons). 3-5 kV is going to be difficult to attain. I guess it's possible at ultra low current. If allowed to arc it will produce a combustible gas in the make-up described above. This gas can be dangerous not only due to its combustible nature, but also, I believe, to be hazardous to health if breathed. I have worked with the stuff, and have friends harmed (permanent) from being around the gas. I have no idea what the electric will do to the chemical reaction, but as an energy source I believe it will be expensive. Just chiming in... Regards to all Andy Message: 1 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:06:46 -0400 From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) now alternative biodiesel process To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi Bob; Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post. The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?) snip - Hi There: The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get 100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate. The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little scary. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u =%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=bio deiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 Ray snip- The patent reference does not appear to be the right one. Ray?? Joe bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: Howdy Pardner bob allen wrote: Howdy Joe (I just had to write Hey Joe before. its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.) Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me where you goin with that gun in your hand I say This is my rifle and this is my gun, This is for shooting and this is for fun Ok thanks for your corrections and information below. As a chemist you are a boon to this list. Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go? Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere). I was also wondering about using intense UV light. Any thoughts? To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things: Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further. Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods. To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works. -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:33:57 -0500 From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) now alternative biodiesel process To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Joe, just a couple of comments. all kinds of claims can be made in patent applications, whether they work or not remains to be seen. the process is simple enough that one could try it and see. I did look at the patent application. some of their nomenclature is ambiguous, so it is not clear exactly what the products are claimed to be. BTW, the link you provided is unrelated. It discusses an enzyme catalyzed process. Joe Street wrote: Hi Bob; Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide. If it is true what a nice advancement. According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential. Here I just found and copied the text out of a
RE: [Biofuel] FW: a problem
Hello Derick Thanks Keith After reading your reply I have a sinking feeling. Maybe my filling in the blanks will help you help me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 12:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hi Derick Hi all Uh, Houston... im not sure but I may have a problem. after many disappointing test batches I finally got several good test batches. I now moved on to a large batch using the same w v o used in the test batches. there was almost instant separation Sorry, what's that mean? Do you mean what they call a split? Yes I guess it I mean as the met oxide was added it turned murky for a few min and then quickly started to clarify and thin out. It changes quite suddenly from WVO to esters, or most of it does anyway. It's the rest of it that's the problem though. and as I have read mixing should be continued for 2 hours. so I left the mixer going for 2.5 hours. Movable feast. The variables are the amount of methanol used, the Amount of lye used, the processing temperature, The amount of the met oxide was total 10 grams per liter and 20% methanol the temp was maintained at 130 to 140 deg f depending on where I put the thermometer on the drum I use a digital lazar thermometer Agitation and the duration of agitation, and it's the last two that agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning Might not translate so easily from a one-litre test batch to a 130-litre batch. The agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning You're using a drill for agitating a 130-litre batch? Unsecured? And the processor isn't properly closed? Lots of methanol fumes at 130 to 140 deg F and drill motors spark. NOT recommended! You're probably losing methanol due to fuming as well so your process isn't going far enough and the by-product is thicker than it should be. Anyway that sounds okay. There's been some fuss about a reverse reaction when you process it for too long, but if anything that would perhaps be a minor concern for later, when you're fine-tuning it. IMHO. buy that time it was late at night and I needed to get some sleep. I left the batch for 8 hours and before I left for work I figured I would try to drain the glycerin from the bottom of my 55 gal galvanized reactor vessel. it was a block. Did it solidify in the test-batches you did with that oil? Yes it did. It should have done. Not that it should solidify necessarily, but if it solidified in the one then it should do in the other too. See: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid?I did read this Did you read all of it? Other factors: * Excess methanol makes the by-product layer thinner * Too much lye creates excess soap * Potassium hydroxide (KOH) makes the by-product slightly thinner than sodium hydroxide (NaOH). and I know that there is no set amount. I just felt there was s much, that's why I asked all of you. I will call you experts. Everybody's learning, no experts. But I am merely a novas. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More important is how much soap there is -- the more soap, the more likely the by-product layer will solidify, no matter what oil you Used.. I'm not to concerned about the solids I only wish I had started earlier so I could have drained it off before it got solid. Eight hours is on the quick side for settling, by the way. So how do you let it sit for longer without getting a brick in the bottom? We don't use NaOH-sodium hydroxide, we use KOH, potassium hydroxide, so the glycerine by-product is always liquid. However, even when we were using NaOH, IIRC we only got solid by-product twice, in the very early days before we learnt to control the process properly. It was solid because we used too much lye. Just as you're doing. After work I pumped the top layer off to a wash tank. The solid mass at the bottom of the reactor was much more that I had expected it should be from 130 liters w v o I had aprox 15 gal of solid. Is it me or is there way to much solid left from what I started with? About twice as much as there would be if you got a 100% yield. We'd Need to know how much lye you used and the titration results. Titration was 5 using the world famous chopstick method. With a total of 10 grams per liter @ 20% methanol by volume. Sigh... All is explained. You've been keeping bad company and getting bad advice. No wonder you had so many failed test batches. Go back to the beginning, start all over again. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Do one-litre test batches and use virgin oil with 3.5 gm of lye per litre of oil, NOT 5 gm. When you move on to WVO do a proper titration. Follow the instructions
[Biofuel] Plastic and metal recycling
Does Journey to Forever have any tips on recycling plastic and metal? The only reference I found on Journey to Forever was that Mike Pelly using salvage scrap metal for his equipment. I know plastic is not compostable, obviously it needs some pre-treatment before even attempting to bring plastic back into nature. Maybe use ultraviolet rays to degrade plastic? How about metal cans, can the natural decay of metal be accelerated? What are consumer-grade metal cans made of? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Plastic and metal recycling
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does Journey to Forever have any tips on recycling plastic and metal? The only reference I found on Journey to Forever was that Mike Pelly using salvage scrap metal for his equipment. I know plastic is not compostable, obviously it needs some pre-treatment before even attempting to bring plastic back into nature. Maybe use ultraviolet rays to degrade plastic? How about metal cans, can the natural decay of metal be accelerated? What are consumer-grade metal cans made of? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Maybe use fire. Metal cans exposed to intense heat rust faster. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem
Hi keith I understand what you're saying. No the drum is not sealed air tight but it is closed I used 1/4 flat steel plate 4 larger than the drum diameter. I drilled a pilot hole in the top and put pillow block bearings one on the inside and one on the outside to hold the mixing paddle straight up and down also seals the fumes in the drum. And I have the end of the shaft 14 above that. Bear in mind if the process works I will build a much more professional mixer using a sealed motor. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hello Derick Thanks Keith After reading your reply I have a sinking feeling. Maybe my filling in the blanks will help you help me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 12:26 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] FW: a problem Hi Derick Hi all Uh, Houston... im not sure but I may have a problem. after many disappointing test batches I finally got several good test batches. I now moved on to a large batch using the same w v o used in the test batches. there was almost instant separation Sorry, what's that mean? Do you mean what they call a split? Yes I guess it I mean as the met oxide was added it turned murky for a few min and then quickly started to clarify and thin out. It changes quite suddenly from WVO to esters, or most of it does anyway. It's the rest of it that's the problem though. and as I have read mixing should be continued for 2 hours. so I left the mixer going for 2.5 hours. Movable feast. The variables are the amount of methanol used, the Amount of lye used, the processing temperature, The amount of the met oxide was total 10 grams per liter and 20% methanol the temp was maintained at 130 to 140 deg f depending on where I put the thermometer on the drum I use a digital lazar thermometer Agitation and the duration of agitation, and it's the last two that agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning Might not translate so easily from a one-litre test batch to a 130-litre batch. The agitation was quite vigorous I had to tie the drill to a post and clamp the lid to stop it from spinning You're using a drill for agitating a 130-litre batch? Unsecured? And the processor isn't properly closed? Lots of methanol fumes at 130 to 140 deg F and drill motors spark. NOT recommended! You're probably losing methanol due to fuming as well so your process isn't going far enough and the by-product is thicker than it should be. Anyway that sounds okay. There's been some fuss about a reverse reaction when you process it for too long, but if anything that would perhaps be a minor concern for later, when you're fine-tuning it. IMHO. buy that time it was late at night and I needed to get some sleep. I left the batch for 8 hours and before I left for work I figured I would try to drain the glycerin from the bottom of my 55 gal galvanized reactor vessel. it was a block. Did it solidify in the test-batches you did with that oil? Yes it did. It should have done. Not that it should solidify necessarily, but if it solidified in the one then it should do in the other too. See: How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid?I did read this Did you read all of it? Sorry I must have skimmed and stopped after I found the specific info I was looking for. But Now I have. Other factors: * Excess methanol makes the by-product layer thinner * Too much lye creates excess soap * Potassium hydroxide (KOH) makes the by-product slightly thinner than sodium hydroxide (NaOH). and I know that there is no set amount. I just felt there was s much, that's why I asked all of you. I will call you experts. Everybody's learning, no experts. But I am merely a novas. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More important is how much soap there is -- the more soap, the more likely the by-product layer will solidify, no matter what oil you Used.. I'm not to concerned about the solids I only wish I had started earlier so I could have drained it off before it got solid. Eight hours is on the quick side for settling, by the way. So how do you let it sit for longer without getting a brick in the bottom? We don't use NaOH-sodium hydroxide, we use KOH, potassium hydroxide, so the glycerine by-product is always liquid. However, even when we were using NaOH, IIRC we only got solid by-product twice, in the very early days before we learnt to control the process properly. It was solid because we used too much lye. Just as you're doing. Do you mean that the titration # should be ... + 3.5 gpl instead of 5 gpl. I wondered about that when I read it on the chopstick method it was quite
Re: [Biofuel] Plastic and metal recycling
Does Journey to Forever have any tips on recycling plastic and metal? The only reference I found on Journey to Forever was that Mike Pelly using salvage scrap metal for his equipment. You sure didn't look very hard. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Test-batch mini-processor: Journey to Forever Cost -- in our case, zero: this was all discarded junk, including the drill, and all in perfect working order. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html Simple 5-gallon processor: Journey to Forever Like our test-batch processor, it's easy to make from not very much, mostly scrap and junk... The only thing we bought was the immersion heater, which we already had. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor The main expense with this processor set-up was the pump (US$35). Most other parts were salvaged from junkyards and so on, including all the valves -- 12 of them altogether, which would have cost about US$100 if bought new. The temperature gauge was also salvaged from a dump, found lying face-down in the mud, but it works and it's accurate. This stove is made of tin cans: http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html Cookstove for schools: Journey to Forever And so on. We use junk for just about everything, in all our biofuels work and all our farm work too. Solar box cookers are made of cardboard boxes. Our incubator is made from cardboard boxes, a junked heating element, junked plate glass, junked thermometer. There's a whole section in the Education section on what to do with waste cardboard boxes. There are more stoves there too, made from tin cans and Coke cans. Our previous garden pond was an old bathtub. Reduce-reuse-recycle is basic, it's instinctive with us, it's in everything we do. I know plastic is not compostable, obviously it needs some pre-treatment before even attempting to bring plastic back into nature. Maybe use ultraviolet rays to degrade plastic? How about metal cans, can the natural decay of metal be accelerated? What are consumer-grade metal cans made of? Plastic and metal should be recycled, not degraded and decayed. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] B.P. methanol m100?
Hi Felipe,and all,according to me to run your car on methanol you will need about double the volume thus bigger injectors which is expensive and like i said methanol burns to +-6/1 were petrol burns 14 / 1 so u will need more feul to go the same distance in South Africa methanol costs r 2.37/l and petrol r5.80 +- i was also thinking of that.saving money . regards Kobus S.A -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Felipe Navarrete Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:40 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] B.P. methanol m100? Is that .90 cents a gallon? If so, Can I run my 1990 honda civic on M100? That would be a direct way to save money and burn a more environmentally safe fuel... Eriva Randriamanjatosoa wrote: Hi Felipe, it depends on what is reasonable. But it can be even cheaper -up to as low as USD .9 per gal- at www.methanex.com there must be a minimum quantity per order though, which I don't know. Try asking them at NORTH AMERICA Suite 1150 15301 Dallas Parkway Addison, TX 75001 USA T: +1 972 702 0909 F: +1 972 702 0910 Eriva --- Felipe Navarrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, This is my first post on the list so hello fellow Biofuelers. I found a source for buying methanol here in Miami Florida. Location: South florida performance 18728 SW 107th Ave Miami, FL (305) 233-8520 Product: B.P. methanol. I believe he said it was m100. This is 100% percent methanol according to the guy on the phone. Anyone familiar with this product? will this do the trick? Price: 5 gallon pale= $33 Is this a reasonable price? It must be special ordered. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
