Re: [Biofuel] ants
but wouldnt a "farm" mean more damaged leaves? or is that controlled by a culling of the livestock? JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Fritz Friesinger To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ants Hi Jason, Ants are milking Lice,as we milk cows,so why should they destroy theire Livestock? You would need the Ladybug this is the one killing the Lice and other Parasites! Good luck with your Garden Fritz - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 7:02 PM Subject: [Biofuel] ants i noticed that there are large numbers of ants in my wife's herb planter, and i have also noticed a /major/ decrease in bug eaten leaves. do some species of ants hunt these pest bugs? or is it just because of the aging cycles of these pest bugs caused them to move on?JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Forgive me... my comments were a little broad, but i was referring to those who cannot fit into fuel efficient vehicles because they are overweight (hence, shedding fat for oil), height is a different matter entirely (which i, actually, hadn't thought of until you brought it up...thank you), and for those who require more legroom: the station wagon is an excellent choice because they are long enough and have considerably better fuel efficiency than SUV's or vans (which seem to be the other alternatives for people who have long legs). I have had good experiences with the Subaru Outback station wagon (32 mpg on the freeway during a weeklong roadtrip). So, i am sorry if i have offended. I suppose the real goal is to be more fuel conscious and do whatever we are able to to improve fuel efficiency and rid ourselves of the reliance on petroleum fuels. dylan On 7/9/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dylan wrote: Another advantage to this agenda is that americans would be able to drive more fuel efficient cars.Let's face it, the size of cars in the united states has increased with the size of people.Many americans can't fit into the more fuel efficient cars that are popular in other nations.So the savings would be double edged: lighter people and smaller more fuel efficient cars. Voila!(that's not even mentioning the money saved on healthcare for diseases related to obesity)My contention with this is that I have this problem, and it's notobesity that causes it. I cannot fit into a new Golf, an Insight, or anything of similar size, and it's certainly not because the seat's notwide enough (Usually I have plenty room to spare, actually).It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of theseultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability toturn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least anddangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of mycoworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man).Thus, actually, legroom was a huge factor when I went looking for areplacement car. The car I drive now gets terrible mileage by most elite standards (A mere 28mpg combined), but it is after all only ayear younger than I (it's twenty) and weighs in at 3000 pounds. It'salso a station wagon, and it's long wheelbase gives me plenty of legroom for comfort and safety.So beware, please, sweeping statements like that; they aren't always true.-Kurt___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- a href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=86img border=0 alt=Get Firefox! title=Get Firefox! src="" http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/Buttons/125x50/takebacktheweb_125x50.png//aa href="" href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181">http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesamp;id=0amp;t=181img border=0 alt=Get Thunderbird! title=Get Thunderbird! src="" href="http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png">http://sfx-images.mozilla.org/affiliates/thunderbird/thunderbird_small.png//a ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peakoil.com
A forum topic is about http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.htmljourneytoforever.org. Most of the peakoil members believes that biodiesel or alcohol is not the answer to our energy needs http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic21495.html Regardless of the pretty picture this happy permaculture web site paints biofuels still suck: energy, water, land, and valuable time. Happy permaculture web site painting pretty pictures? Permaculture? Us?? And it's BIOFUELS that suck, not this halfwit??? G Ahh, sod it, who cares, ask the idiot if he ever heard of Matt Simmons, or Donald Duck or something maybe. Mumble mumble... It's a little trying when people snatch a 3-nanosecond glance at a massive and varied website just so they can find a label to stick on it, but truly I don't care about folks like this who just don't get it and never will, it just doesn't matter. See: How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch Or maybe... http://snipurl.com/syl8 [Biofuel] Oil shortage threatens military Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Peakoil.com
A forum topic is about journeytoforever.org. Most of the peakoil members believes that biodiesel or alcohol is not the answer to our energy needs http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic21495.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. Kurt Nolte wrote: Dylan wrote: Another advantage to this agenda is that americans would be able to drive more fuel efficient cars. Let's face it, the size of cars in the united states has increased with the size of people. Many americans can't fit into the more fuel efficient cars that are popular in other nations. So the savings would be double edged: lighter people and smaller more fuel efficient cars. Voila! (that's not even mentioning the money saved on healthcare for diseases related to obesity) My contention with this is that I have this problem, and it's not obesity that causes it. I cannot fit into a new Golf, an Insight, or anything of similar size, and it's certainly not because the seat's not wide enough (Usually I have plenty room to spare, actually). It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of these ultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability to turn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least and dangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of my coworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man). Thus, actually, legroom was a huge factor when I went looking for a replacement car. The car I drive now gets terrible mileage by most elite standards (A mere 28mpg combined), but it is after all only a year younger than I (it's twenty) and weighs in at 3000 pounds. It's also a station wagon, and it's long wheelbase gives me plenty of legroom for comfort and safety. So beware, please, sweeping statements like that; they aren't always true. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Buy a mini and take out the driver's seat. Sit in the back seat. There was a famous athlete who did this. Joe Kurt Nolte wrote: Snip It's my legs. They're far too long to fit into most of these ultracompact or even compact cars, which are the highest efficiency ones. I usually end up with my knees where they hinder my ability to turn the steering wheel, which is uncomfortable to say the least and dangerous to say more. I'm not alone in this, either; half of my coworkers are of a similar height and run into similar problems. (We're all at least two inches over six feet tall, and mostly leg to a man). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Gov Auction for pressure filter
More on dewatering veggie oil; Thanks Keith for the info and links. I would also like to add that heating the oil to reaction temperature (I use 58 degrees C.) and pulling a vacuum to 27 inches of mercury immediately before the reaction has allowed me to remove water beyond what falls out by heating alone. I estimate that oil at 55 - 60 degrees C can contain as much as 10,000 PPM ( that's 1%) water. I have experimented with some extremely saturated oils (titrations up to 11 ml with 0.1% KOH) which require ridiculous amounts of catalyst when attempting base only conversions) Although I cannot get complete conversions in these cases, drying the oil by heating and vacuum has allowed me to do this and still avoid problems with soap formation. ( I am also very careful with my caustic and methanol) Using a known temperature and a vacuum gauge is a very repeatable way of drying oil. Although Dale's points about unknown solutes in waste vegetable oil and their ability to lock up water is true I have found that practically speaking oil (even terrible oil) can be reliably dried to the point of being reacted without problems by the process of heat and vacuum. HTH Joe Keith Addison wrote: Hello Bud, Aaron Aaron, My name is Bud and I'm new to this forum so I hope you folks can give a little slack if I get out of line. I have been using WVO for some time and had a lot of problems getting all of the junk out, but water was the biggest trouble. I tried filters, heating and settling and re-filtering with very little sucess. One day I was talking to a friend and he kept saying centrifuge. So I did some reseach, asked a lot of question, some real deep thinking and desided to build a small centrifuge and then all of the problem were gone. Now it's just a one function process. All that is needed is to use a fine kitchen screen as I pour the oil into the machine, warm it up a little and the centrifuge does the rest. It comes out almost as clean as new. I have been using my centrifuged oil for more than 10,000 miles and have yet to change my fuel filter. Therefore I don't think filtering is not the answer. No, but neither is a centrifuge, much. IMHO they're both answers to the wrong question, or at least to an incomplete question, based on the idea that suspended particles and water are the only aspects of fuel quality. Most of the Straight Vegetable Oil world seems to have a strange idea of fuel quality control - filter, filter, filter. Same with a centrifuge - basically, filter it better. Often they filter it down to 0.5 microns, though the specified final fuel filter might be only 10 microns. But what about the contaminants that filtering won't remove? For instance what's the acid value of your oil, Bud? Before and after centrifuging? A lot of SVO people go for SVO instead of biodiesel in the first place because they don't want to learn how to titrate the oil (and to avoid all those poisonous chemicals). But if you're going to have an idea of the quality of the waste oil you're using as fuel you have to titrate it anyway. The only existing quality standard for SVO is the German Quality Standard for Rapeseed Oil as a Fuel (RK-Qualitätsstandard), which specifies an Acid Value of 2.0 mg KOH/g. This is the Free Fatty Acid (FFA) content. Elsbett Technologie says it can affect the lube oil, the Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) say FFA corrodes fuel injection equipment and leaves sediments on parts. An examination of the defective sections found substantial surface erosion of the hardened steel high pressure parts, which are not acid-proof. The problem was traced to a supply of soy oil which was not the usual food-grade oil and had a high acid content. -- BioCar (German page): http://biocar.de/info/warnung1.htm FFA isn't removed by filtering, I doubt it will all be removed by centrifuge. The way to tell how much FFA your oil contains is to titrate it. New, unused SVO is the best oil to use. See German PPO fuel standard: Quality Standard for Rapeseed Oil as a Fuel. Good quality WVO can be used (though see kit supplier's warranty). Oil quality of WVO is best checked with the titration test used in making biodiesel to determine the Free Fatty Acid (FFA) content of the oil. The lower the titration result the better the quality. It's often said that oil titrating at more than 3.5 ml 0.1% NaOH solution should be processed into biodiesel rather than used with a Straight Vegetable Oil system. More than that and the oil will be too acidic and will probably contain water, both of which can damage the fuel system, and the water might not be easy to boil off. We think a limit of 3.5 ml of NaOH solution is too high, we set it lower, at 2.0 ml at the most. After all, there are standards for diesel fuel and for biodiesel fuel, as there should be, but not for SVO -- except for
Re: [Biofuel] Gov Auction for pressure filter
I agree Keith; In fact if in collection, you keep ahead of your processing rate, oil has a chance to settle. I have found that oil that has been sitting for several weeks is very dry if carefully decanted. It will always contain at least 1% water even so, which can be removed by heat and vacuum but un settled oil is way way worse. Settling also results usually in oil which is specularly clear ( You can read fine print through it) when observed in a glass container which means it is quite clean, perhaps cleaner than filtering may give you. BTW as a note about this, oil which has settled and then been stored in cold wintry conditions, when brought inside, if it sits on a warm surface will dissapoint you. Convective currents in the oil due to warming will undo all the settling!! :( Bummer. Joe Keith Addison wrote: what if you dont use it in the final separation of glyc/ffa? wouldnt it be faster to spin out the chunks and as much water as possible after collection and before storage of WVO? it wouldnt be a cleaning per se, just another step of preparation. maybe not any real use for a 20 gallon batch setup but if you were collecting large amounts of WVO for a coop and needed to maximize storage it would be handy. What for Jason? Superfluous. Use good oil and settle it. Best Keith Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Gov Auction for pressure filter Hello Bud, Aaron Aaron, My name is Bud and I'm new to this forum so I hope you folks can give a little slack if I get out of line. I have been using WVO for some time and had a lot of problems getting all of the junk out, but water was the biggest trouble. I tried filters, heating and settling and re-filtering with very little sucess. One day I was talking to a friend and he kept saying centrifuge. So I did some reseach, asked a lot of question, some real deep thinking and desided to build a small centrifuge and then all of the problem were gone. Now it's just a one function process. All that is needed is to use a fine kitchen screen as I pour the oil into the machine, warm it up a little and the centrifuge does the rest. It comes out almost as clean as new. I have been using my centrifuged oil for more than 10,000 miles and have yet to change my fuel filter. Therefore I don't think filtering is not the answer. No, but neither is a centrifuge, much. IMHO they're both answers to the wrong question, or at least to an incomplete question, based on the idea that suspended particles and water are the only aspects of fuel quality. Most of the Straight Vegetable Oil world seems to have a strange idea of fuel quality control - filter, filter, filter. Same with a centrifuge - basically, filter it better. Often they filter it down to 0.5 microns, though the specified final fuel filter might be only 10 microns. But what about the contaminants that filtering won't remove? For instance what's the acid value of your oil, Bud? Before and after centrifuging? A lot of SVO people go for SVO instead of biodiesel in the first place because they don't want to learn how to titrate the oil (and to avoid all those poisonous chemicals). But if you're going to have an idea of the quality of the waste oil you're using as fuel you have to titrate it anyway. The only existing quality standard for SVO is the German Quality Standard for Rapeseed Oil as a Fuel (RK-Qualitätsstandard), which specifies an Acid Value of 2.0 mg KOH/g. This is the Free Fatty Acid (FFA) content. Elsbett Technologie says it can affect the lube oil, the Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) say FFA corrodes fuel injection equipment and leaves sediments on parts. An examination of the defective sections found substantial surface erosion of the hardened steel high pressure parts, which are not acid-proof. The problem was traced to a supply of soy oil which was not the usual food-grade oil and had a high acid content. -- BioCar (German page): http://biocar.de/info/warnung1.htm FFA isn't removed by filtering, I doubt it will all be removed by centrifuge. The way to tell how much FFA your oil contains is to titrate it. New, unused SVO is the best oil to use. See German PPO fuel standard: Quality Standard for Rapeseed Oil as a Fuel. Good quality WVO can be used (though see kit supplier's warranty). Oil quality of WVO is best checked with the titration test used in making biodiesel to determine the Free Fatty Acid (FFA) content of the oil. The lower the titration result the better the quality. It's often said that oil titrating at more than 3.5 ml 0.1% NaOH solution should be processed into biodiesel rather than used with a Straight Vegetable Oil system. More than that and the oil will be too acidic and will probably contain water, both of which can damage the fuel
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Different strokes for different folks I guess. I have a friend who is 6'6 and 300 lbs...he is struck in a Lincoln towncar... Kurt Nolte wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] the flat tax
The Flat TaxConservatives claim to be cutting taxes and creating small government. Thereis no such thing as cutting taxes with deficit spending. The deficits haveto be paid by taxpayers with interest. It means taxes are being increasedfor everyone, while the rich get tax cuts.Reagan's supposed tax cuts included huge deficit spending, which means theyweren't tax cuts at all. He increased the federal deficit by nearly a factorof ten. Afterwards, Bush-I could not create a budget, because he had a hugeamount of interest on the debt and a reduced tax base. What he did wasconvert social security payments into a payroll tax. This created a 15% flattax on all worker income except the rich. It does not apply to incomes above$80 thousand per year; but it does apply to ever penny of the minimum wageincluding payments to illegal immigrants.Illegal immigrants are paying a 15% flat tax. So are the homeless who workpart time at $5.15 per hour. Few persons work full time at the minimum wagebeside migrant workers, because it is not possible to live under normalconditions at the level.The 15% flat tax more than doubled the revenue for the federal government.Reagan and Bush-I didn't lower taxes, they more than doubled it whiledumping the increase on the lowest level workers and exempting the rich. Itwas primarily Reagan's fault, since he squandered so much money that theflat tax became necessary.With the federal tax base being more than doubled, the ClintonAdministration had so much surplus income that it was paying off the debtwhich Reagan created. The minute Bush-II acquired power, huge deficits wereback. The main cause was massive tax give-aways to the rich, which wasrepeated several times. The rich didn't need the money, as they had moremoney than they could invest in the stock market and were creating a housingbubble trying to invest it in real estate. But the money was dumped ontothem, so it could be used as a pretext for taking from the needy. To reducethe deficit, all welfare and domestic programs were cut.Conservatives pretend that there was no increase in taxes, when theyconverted social security payments into a payroll tax. Supposedly, it wasjust an abstract bookkeeping adjustment. But they destroyed the future ofsocial security doing it. Social security was designed to meet allobligations for an infinite future. Now we are told that social security isdead and a different mechanism is needed. Conservatives killed socialsecurity converting it into a payroll tax and then claimed they werelowering taxes.http://nov55.com/news8.htmlGary Novakscience web sitewww.nov55.com Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious JonathanOn 7/10/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok.I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW.I don't fit into Miatas, tho'.I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother'scar when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody washurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits?-Kurt___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Jonathan Hardin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, *Kurt Nolte* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1 and my 2003 Golf is ok. I have a friend who's 6'3 and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW. I don't fit into Miatas, tho'. I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother's car when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody was hurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits? -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Jonathan Hardin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
It's not just gear ratios, but also the tradeoff between rolling resistance and wind resistance. Obviously the worse the aerodynamics, the lower the optimum speed, no matter if the engine is regeared to operate at optimum efficiency point -- my schoolbus gets much better mileage at 35mph than 60mph because it's a brick. Most modern cars have alot better aerodynamics than ones from the 80's when we had the 55mph limit, so maybe it is higher now. I know that my VW (1991) is geared such that 55mph is pretty good for 4th gear, but 5th gear is pretty useless till you get to almost 75mph when it starts cruising right along again (which does drop the mileage to low 40's) ZekeJonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something.In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's.However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time?(I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Some 30 or so years ago I read from several source that the best mileage was obtained from North American cars around 35-40 mph. I understand the the cars in the transcontinental mileage contests that used to be held were specially modified with gear rations and transmissions to accelerate from about 5 mph to about 15 mph, switch off, coast down to 5 mph and start and accelerate again. That way they got the drag advantage of low speed plus the engine efficiency advantage of operating at high manifold pressure during acceleration (but not too high manifold pressure, avoiding rich mixture). Continuous opertion at a steady speed at high manifold pressure and low speed would involve such extreme overdrive (except maybe with a continuously variable transmission) that it would be very hard to accelererate or handle even gentle hills, and the car would be very hard to drive. Car drag is a mixture of rolling resistance (power consumption varies directly as the square of the speed) and air drag (power consumption varies directly as the cube of the speed). I am *really* suprised that someone would get best mileage at 59 mph and I suspect something odd going on. It seems to me that the drag would be just too high regardless of how the gearing was optimized. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Mike Weaver wrote: for whatever reason my Golf seems to get the best mileage at 59 mph. Jonathan Hardin wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
Hi Jonathan,From what I can tell, there are few logical reasons for a 55mph speed limit. From a mileage point of view, theratings on carsreported by the manufacturer arefrom tests performed at 49mph in order to legally mislead the public and make the numbers look more favorable. That would imply that, from a mileage point of view, 55 conserves fuel but is really just another shade of gray.Please don't misunderstand. I try to keep my Civic near 55 when I can, and I'm not necessarily against it but, I don't see the season for that particular number.As for safety, slower speeds don't necessarily save lives. The German Autobahn has no speed limit in most places but, has a fatality rate approximately 12% less than that of the US. I believethe statistic I read was per mile of highway.I apologize for not having my sources readily available.As far as transmission and engine timing is concerned, I think it depends on the manufacturer and the country of origin. For exampleBMW's are required tolegitimately deliver on whatever the speedometer says they can. MikeJonathan Hardin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1" and my 2003 Golf is ok.I have a friend who's 6'3" and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW.I don't fit into Miatas, tho'.I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother'scar when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody washurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits?-Kurt___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] the flat tax
One thing I would like to add, in the same vein, is that there are no tax cuts. Only tax shifts. The taxes cut at the federal level forthe upper one per cent are made up, in the form of increase fees and property tax, at the state level. Kevin Phillips wrote a book about that. It is called "Wealth and Democracy". It is a very good, well written book. I might add that Kevin is from a conservative background. He has written a new book. It is American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century . I am going to get is later on. Powell's Book Store has it for sale. I have always like Powell's book store. Jeff - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 3:44 PM Subject: [Biofuel] the flat tax The Flat TaxConservatives claim to be cutting taxes and creating small government. Thereis no such thing as cutting taxes with deficit spending. The deficits haveto be paid by taxpayers with interest. It means taxes are being increasedfor everyone, while the rich get tax cuts.Reagan's supposed tax cuts included huge deficit spending, which means theyweren't tax cuts at all. He increased the federal deficit by nearly a factorof ten. Afterwards, Bush-I could not create a budget, because he had a hugeamount of interest on the debt and a reduced tax base. What he did wasconvert social security payments into a payroll tax. This created a 15% flattax on all worker income except the rich. It does not apply to incomes above$80 thousand per year; but it does apply to ever penny of the minimum wageincluding payments to illegal immigrants.Illegal immigrants are paying a 15% flat tax. So are the homeless who workpart time at $5.15 per hour. Few persons work full time at the minimum wagebeside migrant workers, because it is not possible to live under normalconditions at the level.The 15% flat tax more than doubled the revenue for the federal government.Reagan and Bush-I didn't lower taxes, they more than doubled it whiledumping the increase on the lowest level workers and exempting the rich. Itwas primarily Reagan's fault, since he squandered so much money that theflat tax became necessary.With the federal tax base being more than doubled, the ClintonAdministration had so much surplus income that it was paying off the debtwhich Reagan created. The minute Bush-II acquired power, huge deficits wereback. The main cause was massive tax give-aways to the rich, which wasrepeated several times. The rich didn't need the money, as they had moremoney than they could invest in the stock market and were creating a housingbubble trying to invest it in real estate. But the money was dumped ontothem, so it could be used as a pretext for taking from the needy. To reducethe deficit, all welfare and domestic programs were cut.Conservatives pretend that there was no increase in taxes, when theyconverted social security payments into a payroll tax. Supposedly, it wasjust an abstract bookkeeping adjustment. But they destroyed the future ofsocial security doing it. Social security was designed to meet allobligations for an infinite future. Now we are told that social security isdead and a different mechanism is needed. Conservatives killed socialsecurity converting it into a payroll tax and then claimed they werelowering taxes.http://nov55.com/news8.htmlGary Novakscience web sitewww.nov55.com Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil
To a certain degree the engine revolutions pay a part in the economy of an average speed trial. At 55 if the engine is not under load but running at say 4,000 RPM it is not as efficient as the same vehicle and engine set up to run at 2,000 RPM. The "Box" Landrovers SI, SII SIIA and SIII with the 4 cylinder petrol engine were often run with the timing firing after TDC. This made them able to deliver real low down torque and thus operate well in 4 WD sandy or muddy conditions. However the cruising speed was easy at about 45, any higher and the engine was drinking fuel like it was gasping. Hence a lot of such landrovers were fitted with Overdrive units to reduce the cruising RPM and increase the cruising speed to 60. Was asked how to get better top speed from a VW on the highway and what was the cheapest way to do this. Fit larger diameter tyres within reason. Same for City driving smaller tyres. This changes the gear ratios and is cheap and easy to return to original or either side of standard. You will need to understand that the larger the tyre the higher the vehicle the less drag to the ground and thus the more instability. The lower the car the better the stability and adherence to the suction effect to the ground. Perhaps this is why in the last ten years 15 inch rims have become the norm and not so the older 14inch rims in many vehicles. Subaru run 15 inch in small cars, other go as high as 17 inch rims. True this gives low profile tyres but also increases the cruising speed a tad. Have never seen the statistics of a table of the air pressure in tyres at a set 60 MPH. At a set cruising speed what are the differences of starting at say 10PSI in the tyres and going in 5PSI steps up to 80 PSI. Have never seen a table that gives the optimum type pressure for speed in a standard every day driver such as VW or such. Is such a tabulation available some place? Tyres eat fuel and thus the pressure must be right to reduce this to a minimum but no manufacture mentions what pressure for economy, only safety or recommended pressures. The flex in the walls of a radial ply eat energy fast, is a heavier 8 plywall better than a 2 ply wall for economy? Have not seen any where a formula for height to ground ratios that reduce drag? That is the optimum height if a car from the ground to have the least ground adherence and thus drag and friction as the wind is drawn over the car. Doug - Original Message - From: Jonathan Hardin To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] shedding fat for oil I'm curious about something. In particular the concept of limiting top speed to 55mph. I understand this being important on any car build/imported into the US before the speed limit change in the mid 90's. However, have car companies not modified their timing/ratios on the transmissions of vehicles built after this point in time? (I drive a 1990 Camry so the top speed of 55mph is what I try to stick with, but I am curious about newer cars). I know the adage about 55mph is from before the speed limit change; and it seems simple for the car manufacters to change the ratios to move the best ratios up to a 60 or 65mph area rather then 55mph. Just curious Jonathan On 7/10/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Weaver wrote: I'm 6'1" and my 2003 Golf is ok.I have a friend who's 6'3" and he seems ok in the passenger seat...Germans are often pretty big people. Size and fit is one of the reasons I bought the VW.I don't fit into Miatas, tho'.I test drove a Golf before I bought the Lancer (which became my mother'scar when the SUV was totaled; best wreck to ever happen since nobody washurt and it took two SUVs off the roads); I didn't fit worth crap in that driver's seat. *Shrugs.* Different people different habits?-Kurt___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Jonathan Hardin -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao Telecom MailScanner with NOD32, and is believed to be clean. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Lao
