Re: [Biofuel] Bring loaded firearms aboard
At 13:48 16/09/2006, D. Mindock said: Garrison makes some good points. Peace, D. Mindock The jihadists we're afraid of are, so far as we know, young Muslim men from the Middle East, not old grandmas named Evelyn and Gladys married to soybean farmers, and not even old white guys like me, but nonetheless they pat us down for plastic explosives under our Sansabelts and have us raise our stockinged feet to be wanded for possible toe bombs. But the only person actually arrested for trying to bomb a plane in flight was not a young Muslim from the middle east, but a British citizen called Richard Reid who was arrested after he tried to detonate explosive that was concealed in his shoe on American Airlines Flight 63 on 22 December 2001. Ian www.voyager03.co.uk The difference between theory and real life is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and real life, but in real life, there is a difference. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bring loaded firearms aboard
D. Mindock wrote: Garrison makes some good points. Peace, D. Mindock --interesting read snipped. Once upon a time, not so very long ago, I recall some blogger or loudmouth going on and on about his idea for an air line. This would be an international airline. The deal was, 1)You can bring your own sidearm, you just have to use our ammo** 2) You can drink on our airline. 3) you can smoke cigars,cigarettes,pipe in our smoking lounge. 4) Once over international air-space, you can smoke pot/hash on board our airline. (in our smoking lounge) 5)you can handcarry your baggage. **ammo would be standard stuff with a turned nylon slug, which is lethal at close range, but has very very poor penetration. Now, as to how you get legal pot/hash aboard in the first place, I have no idea. But I thought it was interesting. His point was, you could charge whatever you wanted for fares, and would probably solid-book every flight, and in fact, have huge waiting lists. I know I'd fly this airline. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bring loaded firearms aboard
guns and liquor, now there is a winning combination. I'll pass on that flight. Chip Mefford wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Garrison makes some good points. Peace, D. Mindock --interesting read snipped. Once upon a time, not so very long ago, I recall some blogger or loudmouth going on and on about his idea for an air line. This would be an international airline. The deal was, 1)You can bring your own sidearm, you just have to use our ammo** 2) You can drink on our airline. 3) you can smoke cigars,cigarettes,pipe in our smoking lounge. 4) Once over international air-space, you can smoke pot/hash on board our airline. (in our smoking lounge) 5)you can handcarry your baggage. **ammo would be standard stuff with a turned nylon slug, which is lethal at close range, but has very very poor penetration. Now, as to how you get legal pot/hash aboard in the first place, I have no idea. But I thought it was interesting. His point was, you could charge whatever you wanted for fares, and would probably solid-book every flight, and in fact, have huge waiting lists. I know I'd fly this airline. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Princeton researchers hack the vote
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6638094.html?tag=blogtag=nl.e501 September 14, 2006, 2:59 PM PDTPrinceton researchers hack the vote Posted by: Robert Vamosi Researchers at Princeton intentionally injected malicious software into a Diebold Accu-vote-TS voting machine for the purposes of security research. In an online video the researchers, Ariel J. Feldman, J. Alex Halderman, and Edward W. Felten, conducted a pretend presidential election in which George Washington receives four votes to Benedict Arnold's one. Yet, when the voting machine is queried at the end of the day, its paper printout states that Arnold received three votes to Washington's two. Even the memory card, designed as a backup, reports the same fraudulent result. There is no way for an observer after the fact to disprove that voters did not give Arnold three votes to Washington's two--except that we saw in the video that the voters did in fact vote differently. The researchers at Princeton exploited well-known software flaws with the Diebold Accu-vote-TS voting to construct their malicious code and cited lax security procedures at the polling sites, such the ability to pick the lock on the memory card, as a means of spreading the malicious code. Full details are available in this PDF report. See also this story on News.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Seeds of Hope, Monsanto and Mercatus Center
Hi All, Monsanto recently launched a product called 'Seeds of Hope' - promoted locally (in South Africa) by the worst forms of marketing cynicism. Were also being told how marvelous this product is by a research outfit called Enterprise Africa! and the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. (I dont like promoting them but for reference purposes http://www.freemarketfoundation.com.) Enterprise Africa! appears to have links with the Free Market Foundation of which Monsanto is a Senior Corporate Member having paid between R100 00-00 and R10 000-00 (+- $14 000-00 to $1 400-00) for this title. My questions to the group are two: does anyone know of any Monsanto funding of the Mercatus Centre? Im also looking for honest research on this Seeds of Hope product? Regards, Duncan mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Foolproof Method
Hey Mike; Ok I don't get this. I've seen this kind of comment a few times before and I don't see the logic in it. It takes me all of what 5 maybe 10 minutes to do a titration. Isn't it more fuss and work to do bracket test batches than just to run a titration? Joe Mike Weaver wrote: snip I'm just lazy and go with what is easy - I don't even titrate - just run a few bracket batches. So far so good... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Foolproof Method
Nah, the oil's always the same - it never changes - there's very litle range. When I get it I usually let it settle, then do a quick 3 batches with 1 liter shakes in a mason jar ( I know- I release the pressure). The batches are probably pointless also. If I didn't have such steady oil I'd titrate more - I even have a Hanna PH meter. I'm not recommending it - it's just what I've wound up with. Just find I don't need to titrate for now... Joe Street wrote: Hey Mike; Ok I don't get this. I've seen this kind of comment a few times before and I don't see the logic in it. It takes me all of what 5 maybe 10 minutes to do a titration. Isn't it more fuss and work to do bracket test batches than just to run a titration? Joe Mike Weaver wrote: snip I'm just lazy and go with what is easy - I don't even titrate - just run a few bracket batches. So far so good... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bartering w. BD
Hello All, My brother-in-law is a diesel mechanic and has done work on my Mercedes. I pay for parts, but he steadfastly refuses money, gift certificates or any other form of payment for his labor. If I'm lucky I can buy him lunch. He has always been fascinated w. the BD I make. He is willing to accept some of my homebrew to use in his oil-fired heating system. A friend delivered a couple of drums of methanol to my house and refused to even accept $ for fuel (diesel). He did accept some of my homebrewed BD. A couple of times a year a neighbor delivers a beautiful pile of horse manure tothe back of my garden.As a "Thank You" I have been dropping a bottle of wine off at his house along with some tomatoes from the garden. Last time he expressed interest in my homebrewed BD. Next time ... a bottle of wine, some tomatoes and a cubie full of fresh BD? I like bartering this way. I don't mind erring on the side of generosity, butwould appreciate some guidance. What do you suppose the going rate (BD/hour, gallons/job) for 1. Mechanic working on car. My bro-in-law is going to install a block heater in my car in the next week or two. 2. Excavation work 3. Electrical work 4. Carpentry 5. Medical/Dental work Feel free to add others Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] amazing himalayan salt
Hi Mike; There is a part of me ( the part I like to think is wise) that tends to trust what comes out of mother nature's laboratory much more than the industrial product. This is why I use butter not margarine. This is why I prefer herbs over medicines and organic foods over factory. This voice is always whispering that the more raw something is, the closer it is to it's natural state, the better. This voice tells that the converse, the more refined anything is, the more goodness has been stripped away and the more unhealthy in terms of preservatives and traces of processing steps are left behind in the product. I, like some others, confound myself at times with doublethink on this front however. For example water purified by reverse osmosis definitely is free of VOC's and chlorine, flourine etc but so are the minerals removed and drinking highly purified water can leach minerals from the body. So I stuggle to understand where the correct balance is at times. Bottled spring water can contain higher than the municipal level of heavy metals. I have wondered about natural salt deposits in this regard although I admit I have been lazy about doing my homework and looking for an assay on alternative salt products. I was told that iodine was added to salt because there were many more cases of thyroid problems in the population before this was done (unless this is disinformation and I am to learn that it aint so and it was just a way to unload iodine from some excess industrial process on an unsuspecting population vis the flouride scene with toothpaste and city water) It is often hard to know who or what to believe unless it is right in your area of knowledge. All I can hope to do is fight laziness and keep looking for information. This list is a goldmine in this regard and I can never give enough thanks for all I have learned from all the contibuting members here. BTW the sea salt I use doesn't pour well. I regard this as encouraging. What have 'they' done to regular table salt to make it run so easily hmmm? I wonder. Joe MK DuPree wrote: Hi Bob and List...I don't know. But I wish I could know all the time what is right and what is wrong,what is on one side and what is on another, whether or not there really is one side or another, but I don't know, the lines between this and that oftentimes become obscure. Maybe we should vaccinate, maybe we shouldn't. Maybe hell is freezing over, maybe it isn't. I don't know. I do know this, however, I have no one to blame but myself. I'm not sure I can say the same for anyone else, because it's really none of my business, but this is true for me--I have no one to blame but myself.And it is this that I seek for everyone, that they are able to one day and forever thereafter accept and say the same thing for him/her self. Why?I can't answer that for you. So it's for me to know and you to find out...for yourself. I can see you are trying, just like others are trying too. And this is where I hope we of this List can all findpeace with each other, that each of us istryingin his or herown way to take responsibility for oneself,to have no one to blame but ourself. Maybe we should be trying to understand each other better. And when we don't agree, rather than throw ridicule at each other, stop and ask a question. I don't know. Maybe the path of ridicule, conjecture, leads to personal responsibility. Maybe. Anyway, there's so much that goes on here that is worthy of being labeled of real WORTH. Maybe it's the freedom to ridicule too. Ok. Ah well...it's a beautiful day here today...perfect temperature, sunshine and a breeze--for breakfast outside with the flys. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "bob allen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: [Biofuel] amazing himalayan salt http://www.mercola.com/forms/salt.htm and what a deal, only 7.95 usd (plus shipping and handling) for 4 ounces. -- Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob = The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
Re: [Biofuel] Bartering w. BD
Hi Tom; Why not figure it on a per miles basis. What I mean is the value of the fuel in terms of the mileage it gives. What would it be worth to someone to travel 1000 km? If you want to be generous you can figure this back to dollars based on your cost and then factor in something for your time, or you could just figure it in terms of the going rate for diesel at the pump. Depends on how generous you want to be. Same goes for using BD as a heating fuel. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello All, My brother-in-law is a diesel mechanic and has done work on my Mercedes. I pay for parts, but he steadfastly refuses money, gift certificates or any other form of payment for his labor. If I'm lucky I can buy him lunch. He has always been fascinated w. the BD I make. He is willing to accept some of my homebrew to use in his oil-fired heating system. A friend delivered a couple of drums of methanol to my house and refused to even accept $ for fuel (diesel). He did accept some of my homebrewed BD. A couple of times a year a neighbor delivers a beautiful pile of horse manure tothe back of my garden.As a "Thank You" I have been dropping a bottle of wine off at his house along with some tomatoes from the garden. Last time he expressed interest in my homebrewed BD. Next time ... a bottle of wine, some tomatoes and a cubie full of fresh BD? I like bartering this way. I don't mind erring on the side of generosity, butwould appreciate some guidance. What do you suppose the going rate (BD/hour, gallons/job) for 1. Mechanic working on car. My bro-in-law is going to install a block heater in my car in the next week or two. 2. Excavation work 3. Electrical work 4. Carpentry 5. Medical/Dental work Feel free to add others Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration (was Foolproof Method)
Mike, What moved me to look at the Foolproof Method was the fact that the WVO I collect from the same places that consistently titrated (when blended) at 1.8 to 2.2g NaOH /L had suddenly jumped to 3.2 - 3.5 this past summer. It hit 3.7 one week. Apparently due to increased summer business. Two weeks ago I titrated each of the 10 cubies of WVO I had collected. It took about 45 minutes. I collect from a Chinese Restaurant. They change their fryer twice a week, like clockwork. Their WVO titrated between 1.6 and 1.8 for 9 months. Their summer oil titrated at 2.8. The only place that didn't change is a restaurant that doesn't have a fryer. Their oil is consistent summer or winter (.8 - 1.0 !!!). My points are: 1. Titration only takes a few minutes. 2. WVO from the same source can vary significantly in FFA. If the titration increases just 0.5 g NaOH/L and I run my normal 80L batch, I will be short by 40 grams of lye, and suspect that I'd get an incomplete reaction. I hesitate to ask Images of The Wizard of Oz Are you suggesting that my apples are not what they should be? Do you do quality tests on your BD? Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Foolproof Method Nah, the oil's always the same - it never changes - there's very litle range. When I get it I usually let it settle, then do a quick 3 batches with 1 liter shakes in a mason jar ( I know- I release the pressure). The batches are probably pointless also. If I didn't have such steady oil I'd titrate more - I even have a Hanna PH meter. I'm not recommending it - it's just what I've wound up with. Just find I don't need to titrate for now... Joe Street wrote: Hey Mike; Ok I don't get this. I've seen this kind of comment a few times before and I don't see the logic in it. It takes me all of what 5 maybe 10 minutes to do a titration. Isn't it more fuss and work to do bracket test batches than just to run a titration? Joe Mike Weaver wrote: snip I'm just lazy and go with what is easy - I don't even titrate - just run a few bracket batches. So far so good... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 2005 Chevy Diesel 6.6 liter duramax
I am new to this list and the making of biodiesel. However being a diesel owner and seeing the new stickers on all the diesel pumps I became concerned not fully understanding what exactly the sticker means. So about two weeks ago while filling up my company truck I saw a state fuel guy checking pumps and gas tanks. So I asked him what the deal was. He says that they are putting in place new diesel. A 2006 and older vehicle will burn either fuel the old diesel or new lower sulfur diesel. 2007 vehicles must burn the new diesel or it MAY cause damage to the vehicle. I live in central Oklahoma and he said he thought that the new diesel had to be in place by October, 2006 and the place I was filling up at and surrounding towns already had the new diesel. I know it doesn't answer about BD but my understanding is BD has no sulfur in it anyway so its even better to burn than the new diesel being sold at pumps. Go figure. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 7:04 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 2005 Chevy Diesel 6.6 liter duramax I think it's that high-sulpher diesel should not be used in 2007 or later diesels, but I'd double-check. chris davidson wrote: Hello All, I was talking to a friend that just bought a 2005 Chevy Duramax 2500 6.6 liter turbo Diesel. He was wondering if using biodiesel with that year-model would be okay. He mentioned that the 2007 models have some sort of warning stating that biodiesel should not be used. Any knowledge or personal experience using biodiesel with these model trucks would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Chris Davidson ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] A Year Ago Today
A year ago today I poured homebrewed BD into my "new" '82 Mercedes 300SD for the first time. I had traveled to the southern part of the US (Florida) in order to get a car that had not been exposed to road salt, potholes, and the transmission wear from trying to get out of snow drifts. I remember the doubtsas I poured 2 gallons of the fuel into the tank... what if this is just a hoax? A week's time, 2500 miles,andmoney spent only to havea very nice car come gliding to a halt as the homemade fuel destroys the engine.The fact is that several friends/acquaintances thought I was a nut for trying to make my own diesel fuel. I can't tell you how many times I heard some version of: "If it was possible to make diesel fuel in your backyard don't you think everyone would be doing it?" or "Tom's doing what?" A year spent researching, doing test batches, locating sources for WVO and for chemicals, scaling up, and it all came down to these next few minutes. I drove the car up and downmy road a few times and then decided to take a drive to town. I brought the cell phone just in case. One year and almost 14000 miles later the car runs fine. I had to put a couple of tankfuls of petro in it on a recent trip, but other than that it's been B100 when temps are above 35F and B70 in the colder months. I haven't had any engine problems. I never had filter clogging, but still carry spare filters + the tools to change them. Thanks to all of you ... it's been a most interesting year. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
Spent a lot of hours behind the wheel these last few weeks. Driving from the 'services' economy of the greater mid-atlantic Washington DC USA region, through rural WV, and Pa, up through industrialized and agricultural southern Canada, down through agricultural and tourist economy of northern Michigan/UP... A model came to mind. A Very Simple Economic Model. - Albert, the blacksmith. Earns the equiv of $24,000 US a year plying his trade. Beverly, the mortgage banker. Earns the equiv of $240,000 US a year, plying her trade. Charles, the surgeon, Earns the equiv of $2.400,000 US a year plying his trade Emily, the CEO, Earns the equiv of $24,000,000 US a year plying her trade. In this community, folks work 8 hours a day to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 5 days a week to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 48 weeks a year to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community where Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily live, it takes 1 hour to go the communal well, and draw the water needed for the day, and haul it back to their respective domiciles. --- Q1. What is an hours labour worth in this community? Q2. Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour to haul their water? Q3, Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to pay the cheap labour to haul the water? Q3.1 If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily be taxed? Discussion. What is this hour devoted to drawing water worth? Since there are 24 hours in the day, and all the hours are spoken for, doing the regular stuff, like raising kids, cleaning house, working, fiddling about, and occasionally watching NFL or world cup rallye, the only reason to do offload the hauling of water duty would be to gain an extra hour of free time. So, to Albert, an hour of free time is essentially worth $1000 over a year. To Beverly, $10,000, to Charles $100,000 and to Emily $1,000,000. Discussion How does the Nash Equilibrium bear on this scenario? - Somewhere, I'm sure this Very Simple Model is already addressed. If someone could point me to a paper, I'd greatly appreciate it. Comments please. thanks. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
Hey Chip yer off by a factor of three there aren't you? Joe PS Emily makes too much! I think she's a witch. BURN HER! Chip Mefford wrote: snip Albert, the blacksmith. Earns the equiv of $24,000 US a year plying his trade. In this community, folks work 8 hours a day to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 5 days a week to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 48 weeks a year to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community where Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily live, it takes 1 hour to go the communal well, and draw the water needed for the day, and haul it back to their respective domiciles. snip snip So, to Albert, an hour of free time is essentially worth $1000 over a year. To Beverly, $10,000, to Charles $100,000 and to Emily $1,000,000. snip snip snip Comments please. thanks. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
Joe Street wrote: Hey Chip yer off by a factor of three there aren't you? Nope. All 24 hours are spoken for. Can't peel an hour from anywhere, and it's work time that is at issue. So, if Albert (the likely candidate, being lowest on the payscale) were to trade an hour of his labour for an extra hour of hauling water for Beverly, he'd be trading $1000 of his time over a year, saving Beverly one hour, or $10,000. Joe PS Emily makes too much! I think she's a witch. BURN HER! Need to check and see if she weighs the same as a duck first, but assuming so, yeah, go for it! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A Year Ago Today
Tom...Congratulations! Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: [Biofuel] A Year Ago Today A year ago today I poured homebrewed BD into my "new" '82 Mercedes 300SD for the first time. I had traveled to the southern part of the US (Florida) in order to get a car that had not been exposed to road salt, potholes, and the transmission wear from trying to get out of snow drifts. I remember the doubtsas I poured 2 gallons of the fuel into the tank... what if this is just a hoax? A week's time, 2500 miles,andmoney spent only to havea very nice car come gliding to a halt as the homemade fuel destroys the engine.The fact is that several friends/acquaintances thought I was a nut for trying to make my own diesel fuel. I can't tell you how many times I heard some version of: "If it was possible to make diesel fuel in your backyard don't you think everyone would be doing it?" or "Tom's doing what?" A year spent researching, doing test batches, locating sources for WVO and for chemicals, scaling up, and it all came down to these next few minutes. I drove the car up and downmy road a few times and then decided to take a drive to town. I brought the cell phone just in case. One year and almost 14000 miles later the car runs fine. I had to put a couple of tankfuls of petro in it on a recent trip, but other than that it's been B100 when temps are above 35F and B70 in the colder months. I haven't had any engine problems. I never had filter clogging, but still carry spare filters + the tools to change them. Thanks to all of you ... it's been a most interesting year. Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
u well, 1 hr at $12.50/hr times 5 days a week times 48 weeks comes to $3000.00 unless my calulator is busted...it is a microsoft thingie after all. Assuming he dehydrates over the weekend and Christmas of course. Joe Chip Mefford wrote: Joe Street wrote: Hey Chip yer off by a factor of three there aren't you? Nope. All 24 hours are spoken for. Can't peel an hour from anywhere, and it's work time that is at issue. So, if Albert (the likely candidate, being lowest on the payscale) were to trade an hour of his labour for an extra hour of hauling water for Beverly, he'd be trading $1000 of his time over a year, saving Beverly one hour, or $10,000. Joe PS Emily makes too much! I think she's a witch. BURN HER! Need to check and see if she weighs the same as a duck first, but assuming so, yeah, go for it! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] amazing himalayan salt
Howdy Joe, Mike, et al Joe Street wrote: Hi Mike; There is a part of me ( the part I like to think is wise) that tends to trust what comes out of mother nature's laboratory much more than the industrial product. This is why I use butter not margarine. better the devil you know than the devil you don't know? (butter, saturated fat and cholesterol vs margarine, trans fats) This is why I prefer herbs over medicines most medicines are herbs, or modeled after them and are purer and more predictable, with known side effects, at least after time to accumulate statistically relevant data. The problems with herbs as I see it is two fold- frequently there is a lack of proven efficacy and secondly, dosage is unclear. Amounts of efficacious agents varies from species to species and even plant to plant depending on where/how it is grown. and organic foods over factory. agreed, with the exception of factory Organic ala recent spinach issue This voice is always whispering that the more raw something is, the closer it is to it's natural state, the better. This voice tells that the converse, the more refined anything is, the more goodness has been stripped away and the more unhealthy in terms of preservatives and traces of processing steps are left behind in the product. processing is relative. Cassava is dangerously poisonous without processing I, like some others, confound myself at times with doublethink on this front however. For example water purified by reverse osmosis definitely is free of VOC's and chlorine, flourine etc but so are the minerals removed and drinking highly purified water can leach minerals from the body. So I stuggle to understand where the correct balance is at times. we all struggle- nobody said life was easy Bottled spring water can contain higher than the municipal level of heavy metals. I have wondered about natural salt deposits in this regard although I admit I have been lazy about doing my homework and looking for an assay on alternative salt products. as far as I am aware there is no such thing as unnatural salt. I was told that iodine was added to salt because there were many more cases of thyroid problems in the population before this was done iodination of salt began in earnest in the great lakes regions where the available salt had particularly low levels of iodine. See info on the goiter belt http://www3.uakron.edu/mmlab/dose/dose1_10.htm (unless this is disinformation and I am to learn that it aint so and it was just a way to unload iodine from some excess industrial process on an unsuspecting population vis the flouride scene with toothpaste and city water) It is often hard to know who or what to believe unless it is right in your area of knowledge. All I can hope to do is fight laziness and keep looking for information. This list is a goldmine in this regard and I can never give enough thanks for all I have learned from all the contibuting members here. BTW the sea salt I use doesn't pour well. pure salt, as well as salt without a desiccant clumps up in humid climates (it is hygroscopic) Hence Sodium alumino silicate or a similar desiccant is added. Mortons has advertised this property for years-when it rains it pours. I regard this as encouraging. What have 'they' done to regular table salt to make it run so easily hmmm? I wonder. Joe MK DuPree wrote: Hi Bob and List...I don't know. But I wish I could know all the time what is right and what is wrong, what is on one side and what is on another, whether or not there really is one side or another, but I don't know, the lines between this and that oftentimes become obscure. Maybe we should vaccinate, maybe we shouldn't. Maybe hell is freezing over, maybe it isn't. I don't know. I do know this, however, I have no one to blame but myself. I'm not sure I can say the same for anyone else, because it's really none of my business, but this is true for me--I have no one to blame but myself. And it is this that I seek for everyone, that they are able to one day and forever thereafter accept and say the same thing for him/her self. Why? I can't answer that for you. So it's for me to know and you to find out...for yourself. I can see you are trying, just like others are trying too. And this is where I hope we of this List can all find peace with each other, that each of us is trying in his or her own way to take responsibility for oneself, to have no one to blame but ourself. Maybe we should be trying to understand each other better. And when we don't agree, rather than throw ridicule at each other, stop and ask a question. I don't know. Maybe the path of ridicule, conjecture, leads to personal responsibility. Maybe. Anyway, there's so much that goes on here that is worthy of being labeled of real WORTH. Maybe it's the freedom to ridicule
[Biofuel] Cheney-Specter bill, S. 2453.
Time to pardon the president for illegal spying, override the constitutional separation of powers, and continue down the path of fascism. http://blog.aclu.org/index.php?/archives/67-A-Terrible-Bill,-A-Temporary-Sigh-of-Relief.html http://www.oregonlive.com/editorials/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1154112920105090.xmlcoll=7 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] FDA in Third World Drug Trial Scandals
This is outrageous but typical behavior for our government which hasbecome one with the corporate world.There used to be a thin line that demarcated the two but with BushCo Inc in power, it has dissolved. There is no discernable difference today between our government and Big Biz. Unfortunately, bothare corrupt. Peace, D. Mindock FDA in Third World Drug Trial Scandals See also:FDA Under Fire for Corporate Links that Compromise Science and other articles in the Science and Ethics section Experimental tests are conducted in developing countries on sick and vulnerable children under the guise of free and ethical treatments sanctioned by the FDA and complicit medical institutions. Sam Burcher and Dr. Mae-Wan Ho A fully referenced version of this report is posted on ISIS members website. Details here Unapproved GM rice serum tested on sick infants Two children suffered serious allergic reactions after being used as guinea pigs by the California-based company Ventria Bioscience in Lima, Peru [1]. The children were part of a clinical trial of a genetically modified (GM) rice serum containing two synthetic human proteins lactoferrin and lysozyme (normally found in human milk and other bodily fluids), not yet approved for testing in the US or anywhere else in the world. Ventria had experienced stiff opposition for growing the GM rice in its home country. It was driven out of California and southeast Missouri in 2005, but managed to grow the GM rice in North Carolina [2] (Molecular Pharming - the New Battlefront over GM Crops , SiS27). The company was hoping to sell the GM rice as a nutraceutical presumably on grounds that it provided extra nutrition. Nevertheless, it was unlikely to gain approval for a clinical trial in the US; so, like other companies, it decided to target Third World countries where regulations are lax. Continued at: http://www.i-sis.org.uk/FDAinDrugTrial.php ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] 300-D for sale
Greetings to All: This car is located in Santa Barbara, CA. Please follow this link for more info. If you are back east and interested, I am happy to drive for you. http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/car/209038583.html Peace, Ana __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
A Very Simple Economic Model. - Albert, the blacksmith. Earns the equiv of $24,000 US a year plying his trade. Beverly, the mortgage banker. Earns the equiv of $240,000 US a year, plying her trade. Charles, the surgeon, Earns the equiv of $2.400,000 US a year plying his trade Emily, the CEO, Earns the equiv of $24,000,000 US a year plying her trade. In this community, folks work 8 hours a day to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 5 days a week to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 48 weeks a year to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community where Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily live, it takes 1 hour to go the communal well, and draw the water needed for the day, and haul it back to their respective domiciles. --- Q1. What is an hours labour worth in this community? 1 hour of a person's time. You're confusing the community obligations with work worth FWIW - labor to cut grass is about 15.00 hour here in Arlington VA. Q2. Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour to haul their water? Depends. Does communal work bind the community together? Q3, Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to pay the cheap labour to haul the water? Towards what end? Q3.1 If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily be taxed? By whom? Discussion. What is this hour devoted to drawing water worth? Since there are 24 hours in the day, and all the hours are spoken for, doing the regular stuff, like raising kids, cleaning house, working, fiddling about, and occasionally watching NFL or world cup rallye, the only reason to do offload the hauling of water duty would be to gain an extra hour of free time. So, to Albert, an hour of free time is essentially worth $1000 over a year. To Beverly, $10,000, to Charles $100,000 and to Emily $1,000,000. Discussion How does the Nash Equilibrium bear on this scenario? - Somewhere, I'm sure this Very Simple Model is already addressed. If someone could point me to a paper, I'd greatly appreciate it. Comments please. thanks. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Seeds of Hope, Monsanto and Mercatus Center
Hi Duncan I believe there's quite a lot about Mosnanto et al's previous antics in Africa and South Africa in the list archives, worth a look. This might be of interest: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Mercatus_Center Mercatus Center - SourceWatch Lots of links to further resources, as always at SourceWatch. Also these: http://www.gmwatch.org/profile.asp GMWatch.org http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/ GM WATCH / Norfolk Genetic Information Network / GMOs / genetic engineering / GM foods HTH Best Keith Hi All, Monsanto recently launched a product called 'Seeds of Hope' - promoted locally (in South Africa) by the worst forms of marketing cynicism. Were also being told how marvelous this product is by a research outfit called Enterprise Africa! and the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. (I dont like promoting them but for reference purposes http://www.freemarketfoundation.com.) Enterprise Africa! appears to have links with the Free Market Foundation of which Monsanto is a Senior Corporate Member having paid between R100 00-00 and R10 000-00 (+- $14 000-00 to $1 400-00) for this title. My questions to the group are two: does anyone know of any Monsanto funding of the Mercatus Centre? Im also looking for honest research on this Seeds of Hope product? Regards, Duncan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Princeton researchers hack the vote
Very interesting In my county this year we have a choice of paper ballot or electronic machine. I think I'll stick to paper. Even if it takes two days to count the paper ballots (which happened in 2004 due to the machine tallyers jamming, wrong cardstock or something), that's still better than not getting the right count at all. On 9/18/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6638094.html?tag=blogtag=nl.e501 September 14, 2006, 2:59 PM PDTPrinceton researchers hack the vote Posted by: Robert Vamosi Researchers at Princeton intentionally injected malicious software into a Diebold Accu-vote-TS voting machine for the purposes of security research. In an online video the researchers, Ariel J. Feldman, J. Alex Halderman, and Edward W. Felten, conducted a pretend presidential election in which George Washington receives four votes to Benedict Arnold's one. Yet, when the voting machine is queried at the end of the day, its paper printout states that Arnold received three votes to Washington's two. Even the memory card, designed as a backup, reports the same fraudulent result. There is no way for an observer after the fact to disprove that voters did not give Arnold three votes to Washington's two--except that we saw in the video that the voters did in fact vote differently. The researchers at Princeton exploited well-known software flaws with the Diebold Accu-vote-TS voting to construct their malicious code and cited lax security procedures at the polling sites, such the ability to pick the lock on the memory card, as a means of spreading the malicious code. Full details are available in this PDF report. See also this story on News.com. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please.
A few questions: Are non-wage earner family members able to help haul water? (ie. children, spouses, etc) Does everyone live equally far from the community well? If so, why? What if someone wants to get excercise by getting their own water and not be taxed to have someone else do it for them? Can someone pay another person (perhaps someone from outside the community) to fetch their own water, do lawn maintence, etc? What do the people in the community do for water 2 days a week during their working weeks, and for the other 6 weeks when they are not working? Q1. What is an hours labour worth in this community? A1: I guess it depends on what is being done and by whom. Q2. Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour to haul their water? A2: No. The community has obviously been functioning reasonably well with the current scheme for water collection and use. Q3, Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to pay the cheap labour to haul the water? A3:No. The community doesn't have the available free-time to fill out tax returns. Q3.1 If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily be taxed? A3.1: It depends on what the person processing, collecting, and disbursing the funds collected is going to be paid and if anyone has the ability to opt-out and haul their own water. - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: [Biofuel] socialism, taxes, economics, comments please. Spent a lot of hours behind the wheel these last few weeks. Driving from the 'services' economy of the greater mid-atlantic Washington DC USA region, through rural WV, and Pa, up through industrialized and agricultural southern Canada, down through agricultural and tourist economy of northern Michigan/UP... A model came to mind. A Very Simple Economic Model. - Albert, the blacksmith. Earns the equiv of $24,000 US a year plying his trade. Beverly, the mortgage banker. Earns the equiv of $240,000 US a year, plying her trade. Charles, the surgeon, Earns the equiv of $2.400,000 US a year plying his trade Emily, the CEO, Earns the equiv of $24,000,000 US a year plying her trade. In this community, folks work 8 hours a day to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 5 days a week to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community, folks work 48 weeks a year to fulfill their trade obligations, no more, no less. In this community where Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily live, it takes 1 hour to go the communal well, and draw the water needed for the day, and haul it back to their respective domiciles. --- Q1. What is an hours labour worth in this community? Q2. Should the community consider bringing in cheap labour to haul their water? Q3, Should the community levee a tax and use the tax to pay the cheap labour to haul the water? Q3.1 If so, at what rate should Albert, Beverly, Charles and Emily be taxed? Discussion. What is this hour devoted to drawing water worth? Since there are 24 hours in the day, and all the hours are spoken for, doing the regular stuff, like raising kids, cleaning house, working, fiddling about, and occasionally watching NFL or world cup rallye, the only reason to do offload the hauling of water duty would be to gain an extra hour of free time. So, to Albert, an hour of free time is essentially worth $1000 over a year. To Beverly, $10,000, to Charles $100,000 and to Emily $1,000,000. Discussion How does the Nash Equilibrium bear on this scenario? - Somewhere, I'm sure this Very Simple Model is already addressed. If someone could point me to a paper, I'd greatly appreciate it. Comments please. thanks. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
