Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof

[Kirk McLoren]

The scary warning I am hearing is aspirin weakens blood vessels in the eye rendering you possibly blind if you fall or otherwise subject the eye to trauma.  I am told Ginko does not do that and offers all the blood thinning of aspirin for those taking aspirin for cardio benefit.     KirkTerry Dyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hi Bob,Many herbs have been used in parts of Europe, Asia, South America and by Northern American Natives for thousands of years. Ayurvedic doctors of India have studied herbs for centuries and so have Chinese herbal practicianers. Aspirin can cause problems with the stomach lining. It can also cause problems with joints if used over a long period of time. I have never heard of anyone having side effects from taking White Willow
 Bark.Terry Dyck>From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:56:12 -0500>>Howdy Terry. First, how do you know that an herb has a thousand years>of testimonies? because someone said so. That itself is a testimonial.>This is not to say that no herb has medicinal value- in fact most drugs>have been "discovered" from an examination of traditional medicine. You>can get a degree in Pharmacognosy for example.>>http://www.phcog.org/>>Just one example, Aspirin is a chemical modification of salicylic acid,>obtained from willow bark and known to be efficacious by the american>indians. Aspirin is an improvement however, as it is less corrosive to>the lining of the stomach.>>Other herbs, which have a
 long history of traditional use, haven't>survived scientific scrutiny.>> glucosamine and shark cartilage, saw palmetto, and st. john's wort>are three that come to mind which are sold but for which there is no, or>conflicting, or little evidence for efficacy, at least when measured via>placebo controlled studies.>>of course there is no end of nostrums hawked everyday via testimonial>evidence, some of which have been shown to be dangerous such as ma huang>(ephedra) or laetrile, a cyanide containing product from apricot pits.>> you just can't make an informed decision if you don't have the>information.Terry Dyck wrote:> > Hi Bob,> >> > Good point. On the other hand is there not a difference between a short> > term study and a study done on herbs that has a thousand years of> > testimonies?>
 >> > Terry Dyck> >> >> >> From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> Subject: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof> >> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:02:42 -0500> >>> >>> >> you be the judge as to the value of testimonial evidence:> >>> >>> >> "NBC's Dateline has broadcast the results of an undercover >investigation> >> in which an infomercial producer was asked to create an infomercial for> >> an alleged skin moisturizer called "Moisturol." Even though the >producer> >> was told that there was no scientific evidence that the product worked,> >> he agreed to create an infomercial complete with a medical endorser and> >> testimonials from allegedly satisfied
 users. After the infomercial was> >> completed, the investigators confronted the participants, most of whom> >> (including the doctor) had not even tried the product. Six of the seven> >> "satisfied customers" were actresses who received $50. Margaret Olsen,> >> M.D., a dermatologist who practices in Los Angeles, received $5,000 for> >> her endorsement. The participants did not know that the product was a> >> fake that had been made from Nestle's Quick (a powdered chocolate drink> >> mix). The text and video of the investigation are posted on NBC's Web> >> site. [From the inside out: If you had a questionable product, how hard> >> would it be to find someone to make an infomercial and sell your >product> >> to millions? Dateline decided to find out. Dateline, Sept 15, 2006]> >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14856571/ ">
 >>> >>> >> --> >> Bob Allen> >>> >> ___> >> Biofuel mailing list> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> >>> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html> >>> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000> >> messages):> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/> >>> >> >> >> > ___> > Biofuel mailing list> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> >> > Biofuel
 at Journey to Forever:> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html> >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >messages):> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/> >> >> >> ___>Biofuel mailing list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listin

Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof

[Terry Dyck]

Hi Bob,

Many herbs have been used in parts of Europe, Asia, South America and by 
Northern American Natives for  thousands of years.  Ayurvedic doctors of 
India have studied herbs for centuries and so have Chinese herbal 
practicianers.  Aspirin can cause problems with the stomach lining.  It can 
also cause problems with joints if used over a long period of time.  I have 
never heard of anyone having side effects from taking White Willow Bark.

Terry Dyck


>From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof
>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:56:12 -0500
>
>Howdy Terry.   First, how do you know that an herb has a thousand years
>of testimonies?  because someone said so. That itself is a testimonial.
>This is not to say that no herb has medicinal value- in fact most drugs
>have been "discovered" from an examination of traditional medicine. You
>can get a degree in Pharmacognosy for example.
>
>http://www.phcog.org/
>
>Just one example, Aspirin is a chemical modification of salicylic acid,
>obtained from willow bark and known to be efficacious by the american
>indians.  Aspirin is an improvement however, as it is less corrosive to
>the lining of the stomach.
>
>Other herbs, which have a long history of traditional use, haven't
>survived scientific scrutiny.
>
>glucosamine and shark cartilage, saw palmetto, and st. john's wort
>are three that come to mind which are sold but for which there is no, or
>conflicting, or little evidence for efficacy, at least when measured via
>placebo controlled studies.
>
>of course there is no end of nostrums hawked everyday via testimonial
>evidence, some of which have been shown to be dangerous such as ma huang
>(ephedra) or laetrile, a cyanide containing product from apricot pits.
>
>   you just can't make an informed decision if you don't have the
>information.
>
>
>
>Terry Dyck wrote:
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > Good point.  On the other hand is there not a difference between a short
> > term study and a study done on herbs that has a thousand years of
> > testimonies?
> >
> > Terry Dyck
> >
> >
> >> From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >> Subject: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof
> >> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:02:42 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >> you be the judge as to the value of testimonial evidence:
> >>
> >>
> >> "NBC's Dateline has broadcast the results of an undercover 
>investigation
> >> in which an infomercial producer was asked to create an infomercial for
> >> an alleged skin moisturizer called "Moisturol." Even though the 
>producer
> >> was told that there was no scientific evidence that the product worked,
> >> he agreed to create an infomercial complete with a medical endorser and
> >> testimonials from allegedly satisfied users. After the infomercial was
> >> completed, the investigators confronted the participants, most of whom
> >> (including the doctor) had not even tried the product. Six of the seven
> >> "satisfied customers" were actresses who received $50. Margaret Olsen,
> >> M.D., a dermatologist who practices in Los Angeles, received $5,000 for
> >> her endorsement. The participants did not know that the product was a
> >> fake that had been made from Nestle's Quick (a powdered chocolate drink
> >> mix). The text and video of the investigation are posted on NBC's Web
> >> site. [From the inside out: If you had a questionable product, how hard
> >> would it be to find someone to make an infomercial and sell your 
>product
> >> to millions? Dateline decided to find out. Dateline, Sept 15, 2006]
> >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14856571/"
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bob Allen
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Biofuel mailing list
> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >> 
>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >>
> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >>
> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> >> messages):
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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>messages):
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>messa

Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[D. Mindock]

Mike,
You're lucky, having good dealer service. When I buy my new 2008
VW TDI, I'll bring it to Gordon for service. Gordon is from England and 
won't touch Detroit
stuff. He says good things about Toyota and Honda car dealer service but he 
says
VW is really aloof wrt service at VW dealers. The way he talks he makes
it sound as if VW corporate is stingy about service. I really like the
way the VW drives, it is a responsive with good road feel. I will test
drive the Toyota and Honda offerings in 2008 to see how they handle.
Maybe they'll figure out how to make a diesel car that's fun to drive in all
situations. If so, I will perhaps abandon VW.
  Yeah, gas engines are much inferior to a diesel. I won't ever buy a
gas car. Once you try diesel, a good one, you can't ever go back to
gas. A diesel/electric plug-in would really be the way to go. I hope
somebody runs with this idea, like Honda or even VW. Toyota seems
to be unable to conceptualize this. Don't know why. Seems like they're
shooting themselves in the foot.
Peace, D. Mindock


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California


> Ah, it's out of warrantee - I just pull the power connection.  That does 
> it.
>
> The dealer around here is actually pretty good but I've similar
> complaints from other VW owners.  The motor is great,
> I chipped it and have a K&N filter.  I haven't put the new injectors in
> yet - waiting for the clutch to go so I can put in a VR6 clutch.
> The car is so far ok - the other weird problem is the lock on the rear
> deck won't unlock with either the key or the switch.
>
> I wish there were the same selection of diesels available here in the
> States as in the rest of the world...
>
> I hate gas cars.
>
> D. Mindock wrote:
>
>>You probably got a bad radio. There's a VW forum
>>that can likely help you. http://www.tdiclub.com/
>>Main thing is to bitch to the dealer until they're sick of you.
>>VW is very reluctant to own up to their cars being faulty. They
>>will drag it out beyond the warantee period, so then you are
>>stuck with a bad radio or whatever. So, if you're still in the warantee
>>period
>>do complain and even write the company. That's my
>>only grumble with VW. Toyota and Honda will make owners
>>happy right away but VW will not. It's a huge oversight by VW here
>>in the USA. So if you complain enough and to the right people
>>you should get relief.
>>Good luck, D. Mindock
>>
>>
>>- Original Message - 
>>From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:16 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I have one of those too.  So far I like it but the radio has to be
>>>rebooted every six months...
>>>
>>>D. Mindock wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
I've got a VW Golf TDI. The wife has one too. Love 'em.
I put the Fitch catalytics in the fuel tanks and think that the
mileage is slowly improving. It was never that bad with
43 mpg combined.
We live in the 'burbs and taking a bike to the store is
dangerous. Motorists here don't respect people on bikes.
Walking is out of the question. Just too far.
So we consolidate things and then go out to take care
of them on one trip.
Peace, D. Mindock






>D. Mindock wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>And yet car companies are fighting the state's
>>landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent
>>lower
>>emissions by 2016.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>  They've been doing this as long as I've been alive.  Business as
>usual . . .
>
>  Be subversive.  Don't buy a "business as usual" car.  Better yet,
>park the one you own and walk!
>
>robert luis rabello
>"The Edge of Justice"
>Adventure for Your Mind
>http://www.newadventure.ca
>
>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>


>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>___
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>>
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>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
>>messages):
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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>
>
> -- 
> No virus fo

[Biofuel] Honda shows next-generation diesel engine

[D. Mindock]

I think the "C" in CTDi stands
for common rail.  I know that VW will use
common rail in their 2008 TDIs Peace, D. Mindock
==

Honda shows next-generation diesel engine
http://www.gizmag.com/go/6246/:/

October 2, 2006 Honda has developed a next-generation diesel engine that 
reduces exhaust gas emissions to a level equal to a petrol engine and 
expects to have the engine available in its U.S. market cars within three 
years. The engine employs an NOx catalytic converter that enables a 
reduction in NOx emissions sufficient to meet stringent U.S. Environmental 
Protection Agency (EPA) Tier II Bin 5 emission requirements. This catalytic 
converter uses the reductive reaction of ammonia generated within the 
catalytic converter to "detoxify" nitrogen oxide (NOx) by turning it into 
harmless nitrogen (N2).

The new catalytic converter utilizes a two-layer structure: one layer 
adsorbs NOx from the exhaust gas and converts a portion of it into ammonia, 
while the other layer adsorbs the resulting ammonia, and uses it later in a 
reaction that converts the remaining NOx in the exhaust into nitrogen (N2). 
Ammonia is a highly effective reagent for reducing NOx into N2 in an 
oxygen-rich, lean-burn atmosphere. This ability to generate and store 
ammonia within the catalytic converter has enabled Honda to create a 
compact, lightweight NOx reduction system for diesel engines. The system 
also features enhanced NOx reduction performance at 200-300ºC, the main 
temperature range of diesel engines.

Honda designed the catalytic converter for use with its 2.2 i-CTDi diesel 
engine, known for its performance and quiet, clean operation since its 
introduction in 2003 on the European Accord model. By further advancing 
combustion control, the 2.2 i-CTDi delivers cleaner exhaust to the NOx 
catalytic converter. Honda achieved this by optimizing the combustion 
chamber configuration, reducing fuel injection time with a 2,000-bar common 
rail injection system and boosting the efficiency of the EGR (exhaust gas 
recirculation) system. Thanks to these improvements, Honda has reduced the 
amount of NOx and soot normally found in engine exhaust, while increasing 
power output.

Along with developing technology for cleaning exhaust gas, Honda plans to 
address other technical challenges in developing clean diesel engines, such 
as handling diesel fuels with different cetane numbers and meeting U.S. 
On-Board Diagnostic System requirements.

Petrol engines presently employ three-way catalytic converters that offer 
NOx reduction rates as high as 99%, but this performance is possible only at 
the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio. In the oxygen-rich environment of a 
lean-burn diesel engine, three-way catalytic converters only reduce NOx 
levels by approximately 10%. Honda's new catalytic converter efficiently 
reduces NOx in a lean-burn atmosphere, enabling diesel engines to rival 
petrol engines in cleanliness. The compact system is also easy to install in 
passenger vehicles. 

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Re: [Biofuel] Random thought

[Andy Karpay]

Don't forget that in the 50's we were told that nuclear power would be
so plentiful and cheap that a mere 'thimble full' of "the fuel" would be
enough to power an entire city, and so cheap that there would be no need
to even meter it.

-Original Message-
From: Chip Mefford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:26 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Random thought

That hit me over the weekend as I was doing a medium distance drive (~ 4
hours), and was listening to NPR as they played up some kinda chat about
nuclear energy, and how greenies are lining up behind it.

It hit me, , ,

"So, who benefits the most from Global Warming?"

Duh!

The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.

Never mind that there is no way to draw a line between nuclear energy
and nuclear weapons, or if there is, no one in the current political
dialogue has found it.

Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath though
the enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, nor
renewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of waste
disposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets bigger
by the day, not smaller.

Never mind that on it's surface, the deals that have been struck for
uranium rights make international behind-the-scenes deals for oil
look like a girlscout cookie sale.

Never mind that when you press for hard facts, they all seem
to creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from whence
all this stuff came in the first place.

Sure, once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuel
happily fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'd
never LIE about it' reactor, it looks clean enough.

But it's just funny that these questions never seem to enter the
dialogue, and to even bring them invites the label of luddite.

So, who really benefits?

interesting, that's all.






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[Biofuel] MONTANA - TURNING POINT FOR CHANGE?

[JJJN]

I may be wrong - As I understand it - Montana could be the location of 
the shootout between the advocates of change and the Bush agenda.  If 
Jon Testor  US  Senatorial candidate from Montana wins this November it 
could spell the beginning of the end of the Wrong Wing Agenda,  for at 
least the next two years.  It seems that if elected there will be one 
over the top to start pulling the emergency brake on the War machine.

If this is true, it is the sparesly populated plains of Eastern Montana 
that will make this decision. Montana is divided West and East both 
Geographicaly and politicaly. The West has often been in a dead tie as 
far as elections go.  Enter the East - The East is the tie breaker.  And 
we are never predictable as most of the folks I know hate labels but 
rather like to vote for those that will move things based on how they 
have percieved past performance and how they see future issues being 
handled.

The Polls.
The latest poll shows Jon with a 7 point lead over Conrad.  From what I 
see in the East, the winds are starting to blow for Jon.  Again this is 
an unpredictable lot out here.

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof

[M&K DuPree]

Hang in there D.  Not 
sure Bob can ever wrap his microscope around what you're saying, but maybe one 
day, when he takes one Big Pharma too many and a "side effect" becomes a major 
effect that makes him wonder why that isolated molecule combined with all 
those other isolated molecules somehow could not perform the same synergistic 
effects as the originals that evolved through millions of years of Mother 
Nature's formulations.  Mike DuPree
 
- Original Message - 
From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:12 
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as 
proof
> Bob,>   How many people have 
herbs (or supplements, essential oils, vitamins) > killed vs Prescrip 
drugs? How many> people have had their disease helped with prescrip 
drugs? which only take > care of symptoms at best and cause> many 
side-effects, all nasty. The so-called science that validates these > 
drugs is shameful.>    The reference to the bible was only 
to indicate that herbs have been > around a long time. If they 
weren't> effective or helpful, don't you think they would have 
disappeared a long > time ago? If they were not effective> do you 
think Big Pharma would be combing the jungles looking for herbs used > by 
indigenous people for> quite a long time?>    Data 
is everywhere. We live immersed in data. Some can see it where it > 
points and others can't. Why should we abandon our intuition? For science? 
> Science will never show us the ultimate truth. Any thinking scientist 
should > use all the clues (mysteries) that are around us and in us and 
be in awe of > Nature.> Peace, D. Mindock> > - 
Original Message - > From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
To: > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:05 
AM> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof> > 
>> D. Mindock wrote:>>> Gimme herbs anytime. Even ephedra 
is safe if used wisely. Everything has>>> a risk/benefit 
ratio. I agree, that is what I have been saying all 
along.  "The dose makes the>> poison..." 
paracelsus> Even water can be 
dangerous if you drink too much. Hard to do this but>>> 
possible. actually this is a serious issue in certain 
diseases such as schizophrenia http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1587518&dopt=Abstract>> But precrip 
drugs have a very poor safety record, especially>>> when studies 
are compromised to give the desired result. and you 
don't think that the promotion of herbs and supplements might be>> 
affected  by the income sales?  you have to be 
kidding.  That is not>>> 
science.>>> Essential oils, derived from herbs, are mentioned in 
the Bible many>>> times. bible smible, what 
does the one true god, the flying spaghetti monster >> 
say?>> if there is money to be made whether in 
what you call big pharma or>> little herb dealers, caveat 
emptor.  Me, I will avoid testimonials as>> evidence of 
efficacy.  Everybody keeps telling me follow the money, fair>> 
enough,  but I say to - show me the 
data  Spikenard comes to 
mind.>>> Some studies are designed to fail from the beginning. 
E.g., the vit E>>> study that said vit E does>>> not 
protect the heart. They intentionally used the dl type. Still it 
did>>> provide a weak protective>>> effect if one 
actually read the results and ignored the media hysteria.>>> If 
they had used d-alpha>>> type the results would have been 
better.>> show me the 
data  But no, they used the 
synthetic>>> form instead. And if they>>> had used 
gamma tocopherol the results would have been good 
indeed.>> show me the data>>> 
Anyway, we're being softened>>> to give up our supplements or have 
them drastically weakened. Big Pharma>>> wants no 
competition nobody does, and if you look closely you 
will probably find big pharma>> behind a number of supplements.  
They are not dumb, they like everybody>> else is in it, to some degree 
for the money. With herbs and supplements>> you don't need proof, just 
pay someone to give testimony.>> 
and>>> will use money and junk science to get rid of it. And 
disinfo.>>> We the People (the workers) are getting the royal shaft 
in health,>>> finances, and freedom. We used to 
pursue>>> these things but now our government's policies is making 
them >>> nonavailable.>>> Peace, D. 
Mindock> - Original Message 
->> *From:* Kirk 
McLoren >> >> *Subject:* Re: 
[Biofuel] testimonials as 
proof>> Margaret Olsen, 
M.D., a dermatologist who practices in Los 
Angeles,>>> received $5,000 
for>>> her 
endorsement.>> Thats the 
problem with most of the MD pharma endorsements. 
placebo>>> works as well or 
better.>>> The white coat has heavy 
mojo.>>

Re: [Biofuel] Random thought

[Mike Weaver]

Interesting discussion over on gasification about coal gasification.

D. Mindock wrote:

>Just because you're a greenie doesn't mean you can't be sold a sack of sh*t.
>BushCo's feet dragging wrt global warming is a wink to nuke and coal
>folks to go ahead with their plans as there will be no resistance from the 
>WH.
>Nuke power is most def not anywhere close to being earth friendly. I think
>I read somewhere that when all the energy inputs that're needed to build the
>components, assemble them, maintain the plant, then decommission it 20
>odd years later is equal to the power generated while the plant was in
>operation. Then you're stuck with the waste which nobody wants in their
>backyard. I wouldn't either. Nuke plants will be a major target for the
>Osamas that're coming online due to BushCo's war to spread democracy
>in the mid-East. It'd be best to scrap nuke power, clean coal, and find
>ways to optimize bio-sources, wind, solar, ocean waves/currents, etc. I
>am sure that there are lots of great ideas out there that will come about.
>The best is yet to come. Nuke power and clean coal are huge diversions
>and should never see the light of day. The energy and money is better spent
>elsewhere. Negawatts needs more encouragement too.
>Peace, D. Mindock
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Chip Mefford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:25 PM
>Subject: [Biofuel] Random thought
>
>
>  
>
>>That hit me over the weekend as I was doing a medium distance drive (~ 4
>>hours), and was listening to NPR as they played up some kinda chat about
>>nuclear energy, and how greenies are lining up behind it.
>>
>>It hit me, , ,
>>
>>"So, who benefits the most from Global Warming?"
>>
>>Duh!
>>
>>The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.
>>
>>Never mind that there is no way to draw a line between nuclear energy
>>and nuclear weapons, or if there is, no one in the current political
>>dialogue has found it.
>>
>>Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath though
>>the enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, nor
>>renewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of waste
>>disposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets bigger
>>by the day, not smaller.
>>
>>Never mind that on it's surface, the deals that have been struck for
>>uranium rights make international behind-the-scenes deals for oil
>>look like a girlscout cookie sale.
>>
>>Never mind that when you press for hard facts, they all seem
>>to creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from whence
>>all this stuff came in the first place.
>>
>>Sure, once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuel
>>happily fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'd
>>never LIE about it' reactor, it looks clean enough.
>>
>>But it's just funny that these questions never seem to enter the
>>dialogue, and to even bring them invites the label of luddite.
>>
>>So, who really benefits?
>>
>>interesting, that's all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>/
>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[Mike Weaver]

Ah, it's out of warrantee - I just pull the power connection.  That does it.

The dealer around here is actually pretty good but I've similar 
complaints from other VW owners.  The motor is great,
I chipped it and have a K&N filter.  I haven't put the new injectors in 
yet - waiting for the clutch to go so I can put in a VR6 clutch.
The car is so far ok - the other weird problem is the lock on the rear 
deck won't unlock with either the key or the switch.

I wish there were the same selection of diesels available here in the 
States as in the rest of the world...

I hate gas cars.

D. Mindock wrote:

>You probably got a bad radio. There's a VW forum
>that can likely help you. http://www.tdiclub.com/
>Main thing is to bitch to the dealer until they're sick of you.
>VW is very reluctant to own up to their cars being faulty. They
>will drag it out beyond the warantee period, so then you are
>stuck with a bad radio or whatever. So, if you're still in the warantee 
>period
>do complain and even write the company. That's my
>only grumble with VW. Toyota and Honda will make owners
>happy right away but VW will not. It's a huge oversight by VW here
>in the USA. So if you complain enough and to the right people
>you should get relief.
>Good luck, D. Mindock
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:16 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California
>
>
>  
>
>>I have one of those too.  So far I like it but the radio has to be
>>rebooted every six months...
>>
>>D. Mindock wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I've got a VW Golf TDI. The wife has one too. Love 'em.
>>>I put the Fitch catalytics in the fuel tanks and think that the
>>>mileage is slowly improving. It was never that bad with
>>>43 mpg combined.
>>>We live in the 'burbs and taking a bike to the store is
>>>dangerous. Motorists here don't respect people on bikes.
>>>Walking is out of the question. Just too far.
>>>So we consolidate things and then go out to take care
>>>of them on one trip.
>>>Peace, D. Mindock
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
D. Mindock wrote:







>And yet car companies are fighting the state's
>landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent
>lower
>emissions by 2016.
>
>
>
>  
>
  They've been doing this as long as I've been alive.  Business as
usual . . .

  Be subversive.  Don't buy a "business as usual" car.  Better yet,
park the one you own and walk!

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/





>
>  
>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>
>  
>
>>
>>
>
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>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[D. Mindock]

You probably got a bad radio. There's a VW forum
that can likely help you. http://www.tdiclub.com/
Main thing is to bitch to the dealer until they're sick of you.
VW is very reluctant to own up to their cars being faulty. They
will drag it out beyond the warantee period, so then you are
stuck with a bad radio or whatever. So, if you're still in the warantee 
period
do complain and even write the company. That's my
only grumble with VW. Toyota and Honda will make owners
happy right away but VW will not. It's a huge oversight by VW here
in the USA. So if you complain enough and to the right people
you should get relief.
Good luck, D. Mindock


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California


>I have one of those too.  So far I like it but the radio has to be
> rebooted every six months...
>
> D. Mindock wrote:
>
>>I've got a VW Golf TDI. The wife has one too. Love 'em.
>>I put the Fitch catalytics in the fuel tanks and think that the
>>mileage is slowly improving. It was never that bad with
>>43 mpg combined.
>>We live in the 'burbs and taking a bike to the store is
>>dangerous. Motorists here don't respect people on bikes.
>>Walking is out of the question. Just too far.
>>So we consolidate things and then go out to take care
>>of them on one trip.
>>Peace, D. Mindock
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>D. Mindock wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
And yet car companies are fighting the state's
landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent
lower
emissions by 2016.



>>>   They've been doing this as long as I've been alive.  Business as
>>>usual . . .
>>>
>>>   Be subversive.  Don't buy a "business as usual" car.  Better yet,
>>>park the one you own and walk!
>>>
>>>robert luis rabello
>>>"The Edge of Justice"
>>>Adventure for Your Mind
>>>http://www.newadventure.ca
>>>
>>>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>>>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

>>
>>
>
>

>
> 

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Re: [Biofuel] Random thought

[D. Mindock]

Just because you're a greenie doesn't mean you can't be sold a sack of sh*t.
BushCo's feet dragging wrt global warming is a wink to nuke and coal
folks to go ahead with their plans as there will be no resistance from the 
WH.
Nuke power is most def not anywhere close to being earth friendly. I think
I read somewhere that when all the energy inputs that're needed to build the
components, assemble them, maintain the plant, then decommission it 20
odd years later is equal to the power generated while the plant was in
operation. Then you're stuck with the waste which nobody wants in their
backyard. I wouldn't either. Nuke plants will be a major target for the
Osamas that're coming online due to BushCo's war to spread democracy
in the mid-East. It'd be best to scrap nuke power, clean coal, and find
ways to optimize bio-sources, wind, solar, ocean waves/currents, etc. I
am sure that there are lots of great ideas out there that will come about.
The best is yet to come. Nuke power and clean coal are huge diversions
and should never see the light of day. The energy and money is better spent
elsewhere. Negawatts needs more encouragement too.
Peace, D. Mindock


- Original Message - 
From: "Chip Mefford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:25 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Random thought


> That hit me over the weekend as I was doing a medium distance drive (~ 4
> hours), and was listening to NPR as they played up some kinda chat about
> nuclear energy, and how greenies are lining up behind it.
>
> It hit me, , ,
>
> "So, who benefits the most from Global Warming?"
>
> Duh!
>
> The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.
>
> Never mind that there is no way to draw a line between nuclear energy
> and nuclear weapons, or if there is, no one in the current political
> dialogue has found it.
>
> Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath though
> the enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, nor
> renewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of waste
> disposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets bigger
> by the day, not smaller.
>
> Never mind that on it's surface, the deals that have been struck for
> uranium rights make international behind-the-scenes deals for oil
> look like a girlscout cookie sale.
>
> Never mind that when you press for hard facts, they all seem
> to creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from whence
> all this stuff came in the first place.
>
> Sure, once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuel
> happily fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'd
> never LIE about it' reactor, it looks clean enough.
>
> But it's just funny that these questions never seem to enter the
> dialogue, and to even bring them invites the label of luddite.
>
> So, who really benefits?
>
> interesting, that's all.
>
>
/

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Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[robert and benita rabello]

D. Mindock wrote:

>I've got a VW Golf TDI. The wife has one too. Love 'em.
>I put the Fitch catalytics in the fuel tanks and think that the
>mileage is slowly improving. It was never that bad with
>43 mpg combined.
>We live in the 'burbs and taking a bike to the store is
>dangerous. Motorists here don't respect people on bikes.
>Walking is out of the question. Just too far.
>So we consolidate things and then go out to take care
>of them on one trip.
>  
>

We have the same problem, compounded by the twin realities of living 
at the top of a steep hill and living in a climate well known for bad 
weather.  We bought a hybrid Camry for those reasons, and we've learned 
how to drive it very gently.  Our fuel economy regularly beats the 
factory rating for that car!

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[Mike Weaver]

I have one of those too.  So far I like it but the radio has to be 
rebooted every six months...

D. Mindock wrote:

>I've got a VW Golf TDI. The wife has one too. Love 'em.
>I put the Fitch catalytics in the fuel tanks and think that the
>mileage is slowly improving. It was never that bad with
>43 mpg combined.
>We live in the 'burbs and taking a bike to the store is
>dangerous. Motorists here don't respect people on bikes.
>Walking is out of the question. Just too far.
>So we consolidate things and then go out to take care
>of them on one trip.
>Peace, D. Mindock
>
>
>  
>
>>D. Mindock wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>And yet car companies are fighting the state's
>>>landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent 
>>>lower
>>>emissions by 2016.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>   They've been doing this as long as I've been alive.  Business as
>>usual . . .
>>
>>   Be subversive.  Don't buy a "business as usual" car.  Better yet,
>>park the one you own and walk!
>>
>>robert luis rabello
>>"The Edge of Justice"
>>Adventure for Your Mind
>>http://www.newadventure.ca
>>
>>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
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>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof

[D. Mindock]

Bob,
   How many people have herbs (or supplements, essential oils, vitamins) 
killed vs Prescrip drugs? How many
people have had their disease helped with prescrip drugs? which only take 
care of symptoms at best and cause
many side-effects, all nasty. The so-called science that validates these 
drugs is shameful.
The reference to the bible was only to indicate that herbs have been 
around a long time. If they weren't
effective or helpful, don't you think they would have disappeared a long 
time ago? If they were not effective
do you think Big Pharma would be combing the jungles looking for herbs used 
by indigenous people for
quite a long time?
Data is everywhere. We live immersed in data. Some can see it where it 
points and others can't. Why should we abandon our intuition? For science? 
Science will never show us the ultimate truth. Any thinking scientist should 
use all the clues (mysteries) that are around us and in us and be in awe of 
Nature.
Peace, D. Mindock

- Original Message - 
From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof


> D. Mindock wrote:
>> Gimme herbs anytime. Even ephedra is safe if used wisely. Everything has
>> a risk/benefit ratio.
>
> I agree, that is what I have been saying all along.  "The dose makes the
> poison..." paracelsus
>
>
>
>> Even water can be dangerous if you drink too much. Hard to do this but
>> possible.
>
> actually this is a serious issue in certain diseases such as schizophrenia
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1587518&dopt=Abstract
>
>
>
>
> But precrip drugs have a very poor safety record, especially
>> when studies are compromised to give the desired result.
>
> and you don't think that the promotion of herbs and supplements might be
> affected  by the income sales?  you have to be kidding.
>
>  That is not
>> science.
>> Essential oils, derived from herbs, are mentioned in the Bible many
>> times.
>
> bible smible, what does the one true god, the flying spaghetti monster 
> say?
>
>
> if there is money to be made whether in what you call big pharma or
> little herb dealers, caveat emptor.  Me, I will avoid testimonials as
> evidence of efficacy.  Everybody keeps telling me follow the money, fair
> enough,  but I say to - show me the data
>
>
>
>  Spikenard comes to mind.
>> Some studies are designed to fail from the beginning. E.g., the vit E
>> study that said vit E does
>> not protect the heart. They intentionally used the dl type. Still it did
>> provide a weak protective
>> effect if one actually read the results and ignored the media hysteria.
>> If they had used d-alpha
>> type the results would have been better.
>
>
> show me the data
>
>  But no, they used the synthetic
>> form instead. And if they
>> had used gamma tocopherol the results would have been good indeed.
>
>
> show me the data
>> Anyway, we're being softened
>> to give up our supplements or have them drastically weakened. Big Pharma
>> wants no competition
>
> nobody does, and if you look closely you will probably find big pharma
> behind a number of supplements.  They are not dumb, they like everybody
> else is in it, to some degree for the money. With herbs and supplements
> you don't need proof, just pay someone to give testimony.
>
>
> and
>> will use money and junk science to get rid of it. And disinfo.
>> We the People (the workers) are getting the royal shaft in health,
>> finances, and freedom. We used to pursue
>> these things but now our government's policies is making them 
>> nonavailable.
>> Peace, D. Mindock
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>
>> *From:* Kirk McLoren 
>> *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:32 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof
>>
>> Margaret Olsen, M.D., a dermatologist who practices in Los Angeles,
>> received $5,000 for
>> her endorsement.
>>
>> Thats the problem with most of the MD pharma endorsements. placebo
>> works as well or better.
>> The white coat has heavy mojo.
>> Herbs on the other hand have been endorsed by thousands of
>> practitioners over dozens or more of generations.
>> Which do you trust?
>>
>>
>> */bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> you be the judge as to the value of testimonial evidence:
>>
>>
>> "NBC's Dateline has broadcast the results of an undercover
>> investigation
>> in which an infomercial producer was asked to create an
>> infomercial for
>> an alleged skin moisturizer called "Moisturol." Even though the
>> producer
>> was told that there was no scientific evidence that the product
>> worked,
>> he agreed to create an infomercial complete with a medical
>> endorser and
>> testimonia

Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[D. Mindock]

I've got a VW Golf TDI. The wife has one too. Love 'em.
I put the Fitch catalytics in the fuel tanks and think that the
mileage is slowly improving. It was never that bad with
43 mpg combined.
We live in the 'burbs and taking a bike to the store is
dangerous. Motorists here don't respect people on bikes.
Walking is out of the question. Just too far.
So we consolidate things and then go out to take care
of them on one trip.
Peace, D. Mindock


> D. Mindock wrote:
>
> 
>
>> And yet car companies are fighting the state's
>>landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent 
>>lower
>>emissions by 2016.
>>
>
>They've been doing this as long as I've been alive.  Business as
> usual . . .
>
>Be subversive.  Don't buy a "business as usual" car.  Better yet,
> park the one you own and walk!
>
> robert luis rabello
> "The Edge of Justice"
> Adventure for Your Mind
> http://www.newadventure.ca
>
> Ranger Supercharger Project Page
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Random thought

[M&K DuPree]

All good points, 
Chip.  So much for National PUBLIC Radio.  Add to this, correct me 
someone if I'm wrong, a former head of Greenpeace is backing Nuclear 
Energy.  WHATEVER!!! What'd the Moody Blues sing many years ago..."Breathe 
deep the gathering gloom" from Days of Future Passed.  Yep.  

 
"Free Government Does Not Bestow Repose Upon Its Citizens But Sets Them In The 
Vanguard Of Battle To Defend The Liberty Of Every Man."  So reads the 
writing chiseled into the stone on the inside of the bell tower on the campus of 
Kansas University.  Yep.  Breathe deep the gathering gloom...no 
pain/no gain.  Enjoy the kick in the ass and rubber club across the 
jaw.  It's all for Liberty, my friend...Liberty.  What the holy F...K 
EVER!!!  
 I 
keep a .38 in the house...unloaded...but with only one bullet ready to 
load.  Perhaps it will be my one last selfish act...or sane act...I don't 
know...I don't know...who knows?  Better than death by radiation...or 
cancer from pollutants in the air, water, or ground.  Or...a Congress or 
President who doesn't give a damn about anyone except the highest bidder, 
eliminating thereby 97% of the population.  Don't tell me to vote...get 
outta my face.  If you believe voting matters, either you're part of 
the 3% or a damn fool.
 
But you know what...behind it all is LIFE.  There is Birth and there is 
Death, at one time or another, but usually together because always there is 
LIFE.  The stars in the sky show me this.  A cedar tree breaking up 
through the asphalt tells me this.  A child's wide eyed curiosity 
tells me this.  An old man's love for his old lady and an old lady's love 
for her old man tells me this.    
 
Watch "Hearts in Atlantis."
 
And believe.  Believe...or it's all over.  
 Mike DuPree 
 

 
- Original Message - 

From: "Chip Mefford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:25 
PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Random 
thought
> That hit me over the weekend as I was doing a 
medium distance drive (~ 4> hours), and was listening to NPR as they 
played up some kinda chat about> nuclear energy, and how greenies are 
lining up behind it.> > It hit me, , ,> > "So, who 
benefits the most from Global Warming?"> > Duh!> > 
The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.> > Never mind that there is 
no way to draw a line between nuclear energy> and nuclear weapons, or if 
there is, no one in the current political> dialogue has found it.> 
> Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath 
though> the enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, 
nor> renewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of 
waste> disposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets 
bigger> by the day, not smaller.> > Never mind that on it's 
surface, the deals that have been struck for> uranium rights make 
international behind-the-scenes deals for oil> look like a girlscout 
cookie sale.> > Never mind that when you press for hard facts, 
they all seem> to creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from 
whence> all this stuff came in the first place.> > Sure, 
once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuel> happily 
fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'd> never LIE about 
it' reactor, it looks clean enough.> > But it's just funny that 
these questions never seem to enter the> dialogue, and to even bring them 
invites the label of luddite.> > So, who really benefits?> 
> interesting, that's all.> > > 
___> Biofuel mailing 
list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html> > Search the combined Biofuel and 
Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/> >
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Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[robert and benita rabello]

Jonathan Schearer wrote:

> Good idea.  Who's going to tell everyone in California they have to 
> walk now?:) 


Don't you know?  "Only a nobody walks in LA . . . "

Wasn't that line from a Platinum Blonde song?

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Random thought

[Tom Irwin]

Hi Chip and all,
 
It's even easier than that Chip. Big size is bad,small size is good. The larger the thing can be made the more corporate and more concentrated it will be. The big thing will concentrate power,control and wealth. The little thing will be more diffuse, more productive and more beneficial to all. I went to an alternative energy syposium and exhitbition this past week here in Uruguay. Biodiesel was there looking wonderfully primitive, doable and available. Wind power was there big time. There wasn't a system available in the 1 to 10 kilowatt range. The smallest was 650 KW. Solar panel were available to generate electricity at a huge cost or a small systewm to just heat water. Most people can't see small is what they need. They'd rather have the expensive, fancy, polsihed gizmo.
 
Tom
 


From: Chip Mefford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:25:34 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Random thoughtThat hit me over the weekend as I was doing a medium distance drive (~ 4hours), and was listening to NPR as they played up some kinda chat aboutnuclear energy, and how greenies are lining up behind it.It hit me, , ,"So, who benefits the most from Global Warming?"Duh!The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.Never mind that there is no way to draw a line between nuclear energyand nuclear weapons, or if there is, no one in the current politicaldialogue has found it.Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath thoughthe enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, norrenewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of wastedisposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets biggerby the day, not smaller.Never mind that on it's surface, the deals that have been struck foruranium rights make international behind-the-scenes deals for oillook like a girlscout cookie sale.Never mind that when you press for hard facts, they all seemto creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from whenceall this stuff came in the first place.Sure, once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuelhappily fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'dnever LIE about it' reactor, it looks clean enough.But it's just funny that these questions never seem to enter thedialogue, and to even bring them invites the label of luddite.So, who really benefits?interesting, that's all.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 
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Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[Paul S Cantrell]

Ah-nold!  Of course.Actually, many of the people I know that live in California drive to the train station.  Seems they could bike to the train station.  Weather really isn't a deterrent there, but ego probably is.
On 10/2/06, Jonathan Schearer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Good idea.  Who's going to tell everyone in California they have to walk now?:)  robert and benita rabello <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  D. Mindock wrote:> And yet car companies are fighting the state's 
>landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent lower >emissions by 2016.>They've been doing this as long as I've been alive. Business as usual . . .Be subversive. Don't buy a "business as usual" car. Better yet, 
park the one you own and walk!robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchThe genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser
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[Biofuel] Random thought

[Chip Mefford]

That hit me over the weekend as I was doing a medium distance drive (~ 4
hours), and was listening to NPR as they played up some kinda chat about
nuclear energy, and how greenies are lining up behind it.

It hit me, , ,

"So, who benefits the most from Global Warming?"

Duh!

The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.

Never mind that there is no way to draw a line between nuclear energy
and nuclear weapons, or if there is, no one in the current political
dialogue has found it.

Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath though
the enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, nor
renewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of waste
disposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets bigger
by the day, not smaller.

Never mind that on it's surface, the deals that have been struck for
uranium rights make international behind-the-scenes deals for oil
look like a girlscout cookie sale.

Never mind that when you press for hard facts, they all seem
to creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from whence
all this stuff came in the first place.

Sure, once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuel
happily fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'd
never LIE about it' reactor, it looks clean enough.

But it's just funny that these questions never seem to enter the
dialogue, and to even bring them invites the label of luddite.

So, who really benefits?

interesting, that's all.


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Re: [Biofuel] Automakers Targeted by Lawsuit in California

[Jonathan Schearer]

Good idea.  Who's going to tell everyone in California they have to walk now?:)  robert and benita rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  D. Mindock wrote:> And yet car companies are fighting the state's >landmark regulations requiring them to offer vehicles with 30 percent lower >emissions by 2016.>They've been doing this as long as I've been alive. Business as usual . . .Be subversive. Don't buy a "business as usual" car. Better yet, park the one you own and walk!robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing
 listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
		Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com 
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Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof

[bob allen]

D. Mindock wrote:
> Gimme herbs anytime. Even ephedra is safe if used wisely. Everything has 
> a risk/benefit ratio.

I agree, that is what I have been saying all along.  "The dose makes the 
poison..." paracelsus



> Even water can be dangerous if you drink too much. Hard to do this but 
> possible. 

actually this is a serious issue in certain diseases such as schizophrenia

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1587518&dopt=Abstract




But precrip drugs have a very poor safety record, especially
> when studies are compromised to give the desired result.

and you don't think that the promotion of herbs and supplements might be 
affected  by the income sales?  you have to be kidding.

  That is not
> science.
> Essential oils, derived from herbs, are mentioned in the Bible many 
> times.

bible smible, what does the one true god, the flying spaghetti monster say?


if there is money to be made whether in what you call big pharma or 
little herb dealers, caveat emptor.  Me, I will avoid testimonials as 
evidence of efficacy.  Everybody keeps telling me follow the money, fair 
enough,  but I say to - show me the data



  Spikenard comes to mind.
> Some studies are designed to fail from the beginning. E.g., the vit E 
> study that said vit E does
> not protect the heart. They intentionally used the dl type. Still it did 
> provide a weak protective
> effect if one actually read the results and ignored the media hysteria. 
> If they had used d-alpha
> type the results would have been better.


show me the data

  But no, they used the synthetic
> form instead. And if they
> had used gamma tocopherol the results would have been good indeed. 


show me the data
> Anyway, we're being softened
> to give up our supplements or have them drastically weakened. Big Pharma 
> wants no competition

nobody does, and if you look closely you will probably find big pharma 
behind a number of supplements.  They are not dumb, they like everybody 
else is in it, to some degree for the money. With herbs and supplements 
you don't need proof, just pay someone to give testimony.


and
> will use money and junk science to get rid of it. And disinfo. 
> We the People (the workers) are getting the royal shaft in health, 
> finances, and freedom. We used to pursue
> these things but now our government's policies is making them nonavailable.
> Peace, D. Mindock
>  
>  
> - Original Message -
> 
> *From:* Kirk McLoren 
> *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:32 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof
> 
> Margaret Olsen, M.D., a dermatologist who practices in Los Angeles,
> received $5,000 for
> her endorsement.
>  
> Thats the problem with most of the MD pharma endorsements. placebo
> works as well or better.
> The white coat has heavy mojo.
> Herbs on the other hand have been endorsed by thousands of
> practitioners over dozens or more of generations.
> Which do you trust?
> 
> 
> */bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
> 
> 
> you be the judge as to the value of testimonial evidence:
> 
> 
> "NBC's Dateline has broadcast the results of an undercover
> investigation
> in which an infomercial producer was asked to create an
> infomercial for
> an alleged skin moisturizer called "Moisturol." Even though the
> producer
> was told that there was no scientific evidence that the product
> worked,
> he agreed to create an infomercial complete with a medical
> endorser and
> testimonials from allegedly satisfied users. After the
> infomercial was
> completed, the investigators confronted the participants, most
> of whom
> (including the doctor) had not even tried the product. Six of
> the seven
> "satisfied customers" were actresses who received $50. Margaret
> Olsen,
> M.D., a dermatologist who practices in Los Angeles, received
> $5,000 for
> her endorsement. The participants did not know that the product
> was a
> fake that had been made from Nestle's Quick (a powdered
> chocolate drink
> mix). The text and video of the investigation are posted on
> NBC's Web
> site. [From the inside out: If you had a questionable product,
> how hard
> would it be to find someone to make an infomercial and sell your
> product
> to millions? Dateline decided to find out. Dateline, Sept 15, 2006]
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14856571/ "
> 
> 
> --
> Bob Allen
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] Thermate used on the WTC buildings

[Joe Street]

NoI AM  follow me or you'll be lost!

bob allen wrote:

  hear ye, I am the ONE TRUE CONSPIRACY, thou shalt have no other conspiracies before me...

Kirk McLoren wrote:
  
  
And the metal samples from the memorial site.
Lets mark out the cold fusion with a felt tip and reduce the reply to 
relevant comments.
Another argument by obfuscation they are so practiced at.

Physical evidence - and why was it destroyed? Samples couldnt be taken 
of metals sold as scrap?
Why is that Bob?
They couldnt get rid of the Murrah building fast enough either.
That rubbble landfill is under armed guard last I heard.
Kirk
 

*/bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

there is an old saw- " the first liar doesn't stand a chance". I am
by no means calling anybody a
liar, I'm just using that saw to segue to- "the first conspiracy
doesn't..."

here is one that thinks Steven Jones is all wet, yet they apparently
have their own conspiracy

http://www.lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=7095


or here is one " Did NORAD Send The "Suicide" Jets? Part 1 of 2:
Inside Job

http://www.public-action.com/911/noradsend.html

or this, it wasn't norad, it was the israeli's :

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/stf1.html

or maybe it never happened, it was faked at fox news:

http://feralnews.com/issues/911/dewdney/


et al.


so gee, who's conspiracy are we to believe? ;->



Kirk McLoren wrote:
 > I wonder if the members of this list that cant conceive of a
government
 > that would do this can get their minds around this interview?
 > The professor certainly presents the simple truth.
 > Kirk
 >
 > */"D. Mindock" /* wrote:
 >
 >
 > If there's conclusive evidence that thermite or thermate (souped up
 > form of thermite is called thermate) was used in the
 > collapse of the three WTC buildings then the conspiracy theory is no
 > longer a theory. It becomes an unsettling fact that
 > it was indeed an "inside job."
 > Peace, D. Mindock
 > ==
 >
 > 1 of 2
 > Thermite Identified As Culprit Of WTC Collapse
 > Evidence mounting that cause first identified on Alex Jones Show led
 > to towers' implosion
 > A new branch of 9/11 research claims to have identified the cause of
 > the collapse of the twin towers. The photographic and video evidence
 > makes a very strong case for thermite being responsible for the
 > unprecedented implosions of steel framed reinforced buildings on
 > September 11.
 >
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/240406thermiteidentified.htm
 > 2 of 2
 > Alex Jones interviews Steven Jones, a BYU physics professor, who
 > has scientifically proven that a special mix of thermite and sulfur
 > and *...* all *»* some other chemicals, known
 > as thermate, was used to cut the WTC steel backbones. Thermate is
 > widely used by the military and demolition companies as the cutting
 > charges. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-284238498383411
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-- 
Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
=
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is,
the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG

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Re: [Biofuel] Closing Down the Garden

[Mike Weaver]

It's just you.

Fred Finch wrote:

> Is it just me, or is Weaver missing from the conversation?
>
> On 10/1/06, *robert and benita rabello* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>  > wrote:
>
> Doug Foskey wrote:
>
> >Dosen't it make the milk taste in the morning??
> >
> >
>
> Does your milk have a tongue???  (Two can play that game!)
>
>
> robert luis rabello
> "The Edge of Justice"
> Adventure for Your Mind
> http://www.newadventure.ca 
>
> Ranger Supercharger Project Page
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
>
>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Closing Down the Garden

[Fred Finch]

Is it just me, or is Weaver missing from the conversation?On 10/1/06, robert and benita rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:Doug Foskey wrote:>Dosen't it make the milk taste in the morning??
>>Does your milk have a tongue???  (Two can play that game!)robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca
Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing list
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