Re: [Biofuel] Closing the Garden - Ottawa version

2006-10-17 Thread robert and benita rabello




MK DuPree wrote:

  
  
  
  Hi
Darryl...and Robert...your posts on the garden are beautiful...please
let us hear more, whatever thoughts you may have, experiences, tips,
meditations on the wonderments (and sorrows) of gardening, etc etc.


 The weather has finally turned cool and rainy up here. I had these
great intentions to load up a bunch of barn litter last week, but my
schedule makes it hard to do this, and the one afternoon I had time to
go, my sweetheart had other plans for me.

 We're still getting strawberries, though. I've told my clients and
the neighborhood kids that they can eat as much fruit as they like.
Some of the kids stop by two or three times a week to check for
strawberries, and since we have WAY more than we can eat ourselves,
I've encouraged them. I realize that some of you are having problems
with this, but I would rather have young people enjoying my garden's
fruit than trampling through it. So far, they've been pretty good
about not wrecking my plants! (They're in one of my raised beds, so
they don't get trampled.)

 As I've trimmed the ornamental plants, I've shredded the trimmings
and piled the resulting mulch up to decompose over the winter. I'm
waiting for my next batch to finish, but I should have enough compost
to finish "feeding" the soil around my trees before their leaves fall
off. There is still a fair amount of work that needs doing before I'm
done with everything, so my compost pile will be even more substantial
than has been the case in the past. My one complaint is that the
shredder doesn't really do a very effective job with the woody portions
of stems I trim off. Oh well . . .

 Someone posted a question about using "compost starter liquid." I
use just enough in my plastic bin to keep things moist, put more on the
outdoor pile and dump the rest directly beneath my tree drip lines
after it rains. We have a magnolia out in front that looked like it
was dying in the spring, but after a singular treatment with about 2
liters, its leaves darkened nicely and it even bloomed TWICE for us
this year!

 It's really great to hear about gardens starting up on the other
side of the equator. May all of you enjoy growing things this year,
may the bees come back where they're needed, and may each of you find a
blessing in working the soil!




robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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[Biofuel] Is there any diesel powered bicycles?

2006-10-17 Thread ItalysBadBoy
Hello all,Does anyone know of any diesel powered bicycles? Any motors you know of that could be used for a bicycle? I am interested in a motor from 1-2 horsepower.Thanks for any help,IBB.$  $  $  $LARRY KING LIVEAired May 30, 2005 - 21:00 CNN Transcripts/0505/30/lkl.01.htmlKING: When do we leave? You expect it in your administration?D. CHENEY: I do.KING: It's not going to be a 10-year event?D. CHENEY: No. ... But I think the level of activity that we see today, from a military standpoint, I think will clearly decline. I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.http://zfacts.com/p/87.html$  $  $  $ 
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Re: [Biofuel] Isuzu Pickup

2006-10-17 Thread MK DuPree
So did everyone else, Jim, except Bob...m:D

- Original Message - 
From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Isuzu Pickup


 Hehe yes it's a Diesel, I guess I forgot there was anything else ;^)

 Jim


 - Original Message - 
 From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:16 AM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Isuzu Pickup


 Of course, if it's not a diesel, then you will need to drop a diesel in 
 it, check for any rubber in your fuel line, and ride on.  Mike DuPree

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 8:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Isuzu Pickup


 We're running B100 in a Isuzu - so far so good.  Might want to check the
 fuel lines - I think there is some rubber in the system.

 -Mike

 bob allen wrote:

Of course that's assuming it is a diesel engine.  ;-

Keith Addison wrote:


Can any one on the list tell me what I need to do to convert my newest
vehicle to B-100. Its an 88 Isuzu pickup and has less than 100k miles.


Put the fuel in the tank.

Best

Keith




Thanks,

Jim


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Re: [Biofuel] Opening the garden -- Uruguay

2006-10-17 Thread Tom Irwin




Hi Jim,

Yes, I do. I prefer winters that don't have to be shoveled.

Tom



From: JAMES PHELPS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:31:46 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Opening the garden -- UruguayTom,Do you spend the Uruguay winters in the US?Jimsnip___
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Re: [Biofuel] Is there any diesel powered bicycles?

2006-10-17 Thread Fred Finch
Near as I can tell there are no diesel bicycles or mopeds that are in production.That said, there are several homebuilt motorcycles and scooters that work well.Look here, 
http://www.peace65.freeserve.co.uk/Pictures/dorsett.htmI like the diesel scooter towards the bottom of the page.fredOn 10/16/06, ItalysBadBoy
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello all,Does anyone know of any diesel powered bicycles? Any motors you know of that could be used for a bicycle? I am interested in a motor from 1-2 horsepower.Thanks for any help,IBB
.$  $  $  $LARRY KING LIVEAired May 30, 2005 - 21:00 CNN Transcripts/0505/30/lkl.01.htmlKING: When do we leave? You expect it in your administration?
D. CHENEY: I do.KING: It's not going to be a 10-year event?D. CHENEY: No. ... But I think the level of activity that we see today, from a military standpoint, I think will clearly decline. I think they're 
in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.http://zfacts.com/p/87.html$  $  $  $
 
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[Biofuel] Solar Campus - Google

2006-10-17 Thread Mike Weaver

  Google to create largest U.S. solar-powered campus



http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061017:MTFH81983_2006-10-17_01-12-03_N16392412type=comktNewsrpc=44
 


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Re: [Biofuel] Will the EEStor Revolutionize the Electric Car?

2006-10-17 Thread Zeke Yewdall
I agree, the claims of a 5 minute charge seem outlandish. Given the power requirments of an electric car (10 to 20kWh storage or more), charging that in 5 minutes would take more power than the maximum service size for the average house. I still don't see what's wrong with an 8 hour charger -- my car sits at my house all night while I'm sleeping anyway road trips of course, but I already have 3 cars, so I choose whichever one fits the needs of the day the best.
I would like to see better batteries though, because thats' really the weak link in electric cars now. With the new AC drive systems, they could be powerful enough to match head to head with any ICE car, but the batteries can't keep this up for the demands people make on them.
ZOn 10/16/06, Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







maybe some kind of capacitance? i havent heard of 
such a high density ceramic capacitor before, but ive never heard ofone 
you'd need a car to carry around either.
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
  D. 
  Mindock 
  To: 
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 12:04 
  PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Will the EEStor 
  Revolutionize the Electric Car?
  
  
  
  
  
  
Will the EEStor Revolutionize the Electric 
  Car?
  By Jeff McIntire-Strasburg 
  
  


  

 Thanks to 
celebrity activist Tod 
Brilliant for passing along 
this news: Texas stealth company EEStor has patented a new ceramic 
electrical storage device (which we can't call a battery because it has 
no chemicals) that can power a car for 500 miles on a $9 charge of 
electricity. Even more exciting is their claim that fully charging the 
system will take all of five minutes. And even more exciting: we're not 
talking about cars that drive like golf carts. According to 
Business 2.0 :
A four-passenger sedan will drive like 
  a Ferrari, [Toronto-based Feel Good Cars
 CEO] Clifford predicts. In contrast, first electric car, 
  the Zenn, which debuted in August and is powered by a more 
  conventional battery, can't go much faster than a moped and takes 
  hours to charge. (note: Feel Good Cars plans to incorporate the EEStor 
  into cars by 2008)
  The cost of the engine itself depends on how 
  much energy it can store; an EEStor-powered engine with a range 
  roughly equivalent to that of a gasoline-powered car would cost about 
  $5,200. That's a slight premium over the cost of the gas engine and 
  the other parts the device would replace -- the gas tank, exhaust 
  system, and drivetrain. But getting rid of the need to buy gas should 
  more than make up for the extra cost of an EEStor-powered 
  car.
  EEStor is tight-lipped about its device and how 
  it manages to pack such a punch. According to a patent issued in 
  April, the device is made of a ceramic powder coated with aluminum 
  oxide and glass. A bank of these ceramic batteries could be used at 
  electrical energy stations where people on the road could charge 
  up.EEStor is backed by VC firm 
Kleiner Perkins Caufield  
  Byers, and the company's founders are 
  engineers Richard Weir and Carl Nelson. CEO Weir, a former IBM-er, 
  won't comment, but his son, Tom, an EEStor VP, acknowledges, That is 
  pretty much why we are here today, to compete with the internal 
  combustion engine. He also hints that his engine technology is not 
  just for the small passenger vehicles that Clifford is aiming at, but 
  could easily replace the 300-horsepower brutes in today's SUVs. 
Not being an engineer, I have no 
idea how this might work. But I'm very impressed to see Kleiner Perkins 
on board, and, obviously, very intrigued by the concept. If this turns 
out to be the real deal, it's hard to imagine how the internal 
combustion engine, or even gas-electric hybrids, could survive the 
competition, as the EEStor claims to have all of the qualities potential 
buyers would want: price, power and efficiency. At the same time, I 
remember the old saying about If it seems too good to be true 
Others that are much more knowledgeable about such things, such as 
J.C. Winnie
, Mike Milliken
, and TH compadre 
John Laumer, seem cautiously 
  optimistic...
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Campus - Google

2006-10-17 Thread Zeke Yewdall
Interesting. My business partner was actually camped right next to the founders of Google at Burning Man this year. I wonder if he sold them on the idea of solar power... though I'm sure they knew about it long ago...
ZekeOn 10/17/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Google to create largest U.S. solar-powered campus
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061017:MTFH81983_2006-10-17_01-12-03_N16392412type=comktNewsrpc=44___
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Campus - Google

2006-10-17 Thread Mike Weaver
Be nice to get a piece of that job!

Zeke Yewdall wrote:

 Interesting.   My business partner was actually camped right next to 
 the founders of Google at Burning Man this year.  I wonder if he sold 
 them on the idea of solar power...   though I'm sure they knew about 
 it long ago...

 Zeke

 On 10/17/06, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


   Google to create largest U.S. solar-powered campus



 
 http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061017:MTFH81983_2006-10-17_01-12-03_N16392412type=comktNewsrpc=44
 
 http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061017:MTFH81983_2006-10-17_01-12-03_N16392412type=comktNewsrpc=44


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Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

2006-10-17 Thread Terry Dyck
HI Bob,

The Western world has the highest rate of Cancer, Heart disease, Diabetes, 
Respiratory problems and other ailments in the world.  On the other hand 
there is a valley in the middle of the Himalayan mountains called Hunzaland 
that is an almost disease free area.  A pure organic food diet and almost no 
pollution could be the reason for people having good health.

Terry Dyck


From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia 
WasTestimonials as Evidence)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:20:36 -0500

Keith Addison wrote:
  The main edifice of conventional allopathic (cure-the-symptom)
  so-called Western medicine, ie industrialised medicine, is all the
  hospitals.

interesting term allopath, none of which as far as I am aware use the term. 
  It was coined by
Hahnemann, the founder of the most ridiculous counter-intuitive form of 
medicine , homeopathy.
But that is another discussion.


 
  Occupying very many of those hospital beds are patients suffering
  from iatrogenic illnesses, that is sickness caused by medical
  treatment (225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes -
  JAMA. 2000 Jul 26;284(4):483-5).

nocosomial  infections are not surprising considering sick people are in 
the hospital.  Could more
be done to control secondary infections, sure. more space, more equipment, 
more personnel, and more
money. And I doubt don't that there are yeast infections due to over 
prescribing of antibacterials.
   But whose fault? At least here in the US many, many folks expect some 
medicine even if it is
called for or not.


   Or hospital visits could be reduced by diet and lifestyle modifications, 
but whose responsibility
is that?  The patient of course.  Regardless, if my appendix ruptures then 
I will take my chances
with western medicine and a hospital.


I don't disagree with your general position. But I don't see how replacing 
western medicine with
homeopathic nonsense or high colonics a la naturopathy  would be the way 
to solve the problem.


   Nonetheless a fairly august medical
  practitioner once got angry with my questions and shouted: Of COURSE
  we're more healthy now, we've got so many more hospital beds! LOL!
 
  At another time, at a meeting of the steering committee of a primary
  health care group working on development projects in 3rd World
  countries, I mentioned that there's more to health than just the
  absence of disease. There was a polite pause, one of the doctors
  said, Of course there is, and the discussion continued as if I
  hadn't said anything.
 
  The Western doctor who shouted at me didn't know what I was talking
  about when I told him that.
 
  What's the difference? The glaring difference is that there's no
  market in 3rd World people who earn less than $2 a day, it's just not
  worth all the spin and corruption. There's no money in health anyway,
  maintaining disease is much more profitable, whether you're Big
  Pharma or a GP. Twenty-five years ago after I first started working
  with organic growing, a young doctor who was working with me got the
  idea that eating properly grown food might have something to do with
  it. He was working in a fishing community, quite poor people, and got
  very enthusiastic about the success he was having with this approach
  (nothing new - see, eg, The Medical Testament
  http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#medtest). But later
  he complained that healthy patients didn't visit the doctor very
  often. Eventually he moved back to the city and became a surgeon.
 
  Every health education council I've talked to has stressed that
  health maintenance is primarily the patient's responsibility. But the
  patients are seduced by the quick cure that makes the symptom go
  away, and who needs more responsibility anyway? That's what doctors
  are for.
 
  Especially in the industrialised countries, millions of people now
  suffer from systemic candida albicans yeast infections, and not many
  of them can get effective medical treatment for it. They're quite
  likely to be referred to a psychiatrist instead because when they
  report the large variety of symptoms candida produces it's assumed to
  be psychosomatic. Most of the medical profession is in denial about
  candida because it's brought on by overuse of antibiotics and
  steroids. So a lot of people just die, with whatever symptom did it
  on the death certificate.
 
  Again to name just one, a study published in the BMJ a while back
  reported that back pain was the fastest-growing and one of the
  biggest medical problems in Britain at the time, and that
  conventional medicine had a very poor track record in treating it.
  The authors reported that several alternative therapies achieved much
  better results. They called for the alternative treatments to be made
  available via Britain's National Health scheme. That 

Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

2006-10-17 Thread bob allen
Howdy Terry,

Terry Dyck wrote:
 HI Bob,

 The Western world has the highest rate of Cancer, Heart disease, Diabetes, 
 Respiratory problems and other ailments in the world.

oh really, and your source for these facts is?  are the data age 
adjusted, etc. and just what other ailments are included.  This is the 
issue I have with you and others, you make what I feel are overly broad 
statements as fact, without  little or no support.  So give me  
reference or two so I can draw my own conclusions. 

or how about just statistic at a time to discuss.   How about age 
adjusted cancer rates?  (age adjusting is necessary as cancer is 
essentially inevitable, the longer you live the more likely you are to 
get cancer. 


   show me the data please.




   On the other hand 
 there is a valley in the middle of the Himalayan mountains called Hunzaland 
 that is an almost disease free area.
I have heard this canard before.  I googled hunzaland and about the only 
thing I got were people hawking their particular cure 

   The Apricot Kernel Anti-Cancer Theory
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/land_of_hunza.htm

or how about 160+ year olds
http://www.arthritis-nature-cure.com/people.htm

do really believe that?  really, you don't think someone could be less 
than forthright to make a point about a product the promote? 

or maybe it's the magnetized water
http://www.stopcancer.com/magnetpHFoundation2.htm

  A pure organic food diet and almost no 
 pollution could be the reason for people having good health.
   
or it could all be a bunch of hype. How do we know with out better 
documentation? 


 --
 Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
 =
 The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in 
 moral philosophy; that is,
 the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG

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Re: [Biofuel] [PMX:SUSPECT] Who Can We Trust?

2006-10-17 Thread MK DuPree




Well...it aint just an 
indictment now. But on the other hand...let's see, fine this guy $50,000, 
but he grosses $130,000. $80,000 net...and a little jail time...not 
bad...not bad at all. Hey, but it aint about the money...it's about 
protecting Americans...taking care of us...aint it?Yeah right, to make 
sure we spend our money on fools like this. Thanks again, Big Pharma and 
BushCo. Mike DuPree
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/101706B.shtml
Ex-FDA Chief Crawford to Plead Guilty to US 
ChargesBy Justin Blum and Cary 
O'ReillyBloomberg
Monday 16 October 2006
Lester Crawford, the former commissioner of the U.S. 
Food and Drug Administration, will plead guilty to federal charges of failing to 
disclose owning shares in companies regulated by the agency, his attorney 
said.
Prosecutors charged Crawford, 68, with filing a false 
document and violating federal conflict-of-interest laws. Crawford may face as 
much as six months of jail or house arrest and a fine of $50,000, said his 
lawyer, Barbara Van Gelder, in a phone interview today.
Government investigators have been probing Crawford's 
financial dealings since he stepped down as FDA commissioner in September 2005, 
two months after his Senate confirmation. He stated in 2004 that shares of Sysco 
Corp. and Kimberly-Clark Corp. had been sold when he and his wife continued to 
hold them, and he failed to disclose income from Embrex Inc. stock options, U.S. 
Attorney Jeffrey Taylor said in a court filing.
"Crawford did not disclose his income from the Nov. 
14, 2004, exercise of Embrex stock options" or the Kimberly-Clark and Sysco 
stock, Taylor said in the charging document. Crawford and his wife earned more 
than $130,000 from the investments that year, he said.
Channing Phillips, spokesman for Taylor, declined to 
comment. Crawford didn't return a phone message left at Policy Directions Inc., 
a Washington lobbying firm where he works as senior counsel.
"Errors and Omissions"
The former drug regulator didn't intentionally 
mislead anyone, Van Gelder said. Crawford made "errors and omissions" in his 
disclosures, she said. She said federal disclosure forms are "very confusing" 
and cited "some issues with changing financial advisers."
"It happened, and it happened on his watch, and he 
will take responsibility," Van Gelder said.
Crawford, who was acting or deputy FDA commissioner 
for more than three years, also served as chairman of the FDA's Obesity Working 
Group in 2003 and 2004 while owning shares of Sysco, a distributor of snack 
foods, and Pepsico Inc., the world's second- biggest soft drink maker, according 
to court papers. The panel was formed to study the link between weight and 
health.
The panel's report recommended giving calorie content 
greater prominence on food and beverage labels, provided guidance on labeling 
the carbohydrate content in foods and urged the restaurant industry to provide 
more nutrition information to consumers. During his time on the panel, Crawford 
and his wife owned 1,400 shares of Pepsico and 2,500 shares of Sysco, according 
to the federal charging document.
"Should Have Known"
"If anyone should have known the rules, he should 
have," said Carl Tobias, a professor of law at the University of Richmond in 
Virginia. "He's not the typical appointee. He'd been at the agency a long 
time."
Crawford declared in January 2002 that he and his 
wife owned stock in 12 "significantly regulated" organizations: Drugmakers 
Abbott Laboratories, American Home Products, Pfizer Inc. and Merck  Co.; 
medical device makers Boston Scientific Corp., Medtronic Inc. and Johnson  
Johnson; consumer health products maker Kimberly-Clark; Merrill Lynch Biotech 
Holdings; Pepsico; Sysco; and testing equipment maker Waters Corp., the document 
said. He was advised by an HHS ethics official to sell all of them, court 
records show.
"Crawford and his wife subsequently sold all their 
shares in all these entities, with the exception of Kimberly-Clark, Pepsico and 
Sysco," Taylor said.
Embrex Options
Crawford also exercised options in Durham, North 
Carolina- based Embrex, a maker of products to deliver biotechnology drugs, in 
2003 and 2004, according to the charging document. Crawford obtained the options 
while on the Embrex board, before joining the FDA, according to prosecutors.
President George W. Bush nominated Crawford to become 
FDA Commissioner in February 2005. Crawford, from Demopolis, Alabama, holds a 
doctorate in veterinary medicine from Auburn University in Alabama.
He also has a doctorate in pharmacology from the 
University of Georgia. Crawford ran the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine 
from 1978 to 1980 and from 1982 to 1985, taking time out to serve as head of the 
department of physiology-pharmacology at the University of Georgia's College of 
Veterinary Medicine.
He then served as the administrator of the U.S. 
Department of Agriculture's food safety and inspection service from 1987 to 1991 
before taking a 

Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

2006-10-17 Thread Keith Addison
Hi Bob

Nutrition and Health, by Sir Robert McCarrison -- McCarrison's Cantor 
Lectures, to the Royal Society of Arts in 1936, Faber and Faber, 
London, 1953. After joining the Indian Medical Service in 1901 Robert 
McCarrison spent his early years in the Northern Frontier region 
investigating the legendary Hunza tribe, mountain people who lived to 
a vigorous old age and never got sick. He discovered why, and proved 
it in a series of experiments at the Nutrition Research Laboratories 
at Coonoor in India. It was the food they ate -- and, just as 
important, not just what food, but how it was grown. Unless it was 
grown in fertile soil, it was not health-giving food. Most doctors 
study disease; McCarrison had the rare opportunity to study health 
instead, as well as the lack of health among other races in the 
southern part of India subsisting on a poor diet. His findings put 
the fledgling science of nutrition on a whole new footing. 
McCarrison's Cantor Lectures describe his experiments as Director of 
Nutrition Research in India, the results, and the implications for 
health and nutrition. With photographs. Full text online at the Small 
Farms Library.
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/McC/McCToC.html

The Wheel of Health by G.T. Wrench, Daniel, 1938
Dr. Wrench's classic exploration of the Hunza, a mountain people 
renowned for their longevity and vigor. By approaching the problem of 
disease from the angle of a study of a perfectly healthy people, 
Wrench shows that health depends on environmental wholeness, of which 
a whole diet is the vital factor, and that a whole diet means not 
only the right sorts of foods, but their right cultivation as well. 
An examination of the agricultural technique of the most successful 
cultivators of East and West shows what an essential part of the 
wheel of health -- from man to soil, from soil to plant, from plant 
to man -- is the farmer's renewal and protection of the soil. Full 
text online. 
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/Wrench_WoH/WoHToC.html

Lots more in the Small Farms Library if you care to look.
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html
Small Farms Library - Journey to Forever

Try Price, or Cleave - you'll HATE it! LOL! Especially since it's real science.

Keith


Howdy Terry,

Terry Dyck wrote:
  HI Bob,
 
  The Western world has the highest rate of Cancer, Heart disease, Diabetes,
  Respiratory problems and other ailments in the world.

oh really, and your source for these facts is?  are the data age
adjusted, etc. and just what other ailments are included.  This is the
issue I have with you and others, you make what I feel are overly broad
statements as fact, without  little or no support.  So give me
reference or two so I can draw my own conclusions.

or how about just statistic at a time to discuss.   How about age
adjusted cancer rates?  (age adjusting is necessary as cancer is
essentially inevitable, the longer you live the more likely you are to
get cancer.


   show me the data please.




On the other hand
  there is a valley in the middle of the Himalayan mountains called Hunzaland
  that is an almost disease free area.
I have heard this canard before.  I googled hunzaland and about the only
thing I got were people hawking their particular cure

   The Apricot Kernel Anti-Cancer Theory
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/land_of_hunza.htm

or how about 160+ year olds
http://www.arthritis-nature-cure.com/people.htm

do really believe that?  really, you don't think someone could be less
than forthright to make a point about a product the promote?

or maybe it's the magnetized water
http://www.stopcancer.com/magnetpHFoundation2.htm

   A pure organic food diet and almost no
  pollution could be the reason for people having good health.
 
or it could all be a bunch of hype. How do we know with out better
documentation?


  --
  Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
  =
  The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in
  moral philosophy; that is,
  the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG


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Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

2006-10-17 Thread Mike Weaver
 From the can't-help-but-stick-my-toe-in dept.

Caveat:  No proof other than what I've read over the years.

It has always seemed to me that the maladies that people suffer from are 
in large part due to environment/lifestyle.  In the third world,
disease is far more likely to be as a result of the lack of food and 
adequate nutrition, wheras in the developed world, we suffer from the 
diseaeses of affluence:  diabetis being the one that comes to mind, 
along with obesity-related ailments such as heart disease, high blood 
pressure, strokes and so on.  Smoking is another factor.

Another interesting item, from Harvard University's website:

In particular, these studies suggest that high calcium intake doesn't 
actually appear to lower a person's risk for osteoporosis. For example, 
in the large Harvard studies of male health professionals and female 
nurses, individuals who drank one glass of milk (or less) per week were 
at no greater risk of breaking a hip or forearm than were those who 
drank two or more glasses per week.(2, 3 
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium.html#references) 
Other studies have found similar results.

It is odd human beings are the only animal that develop a disease if 
they don't eat the milk of another species.  Dogs don't need cat milk.

bob allen wrote:

Howdy Terry,

Terry Dyck wrote:
  

HI Bob,

The Western world has the highest rate of Cancer, Heart disease, Diabetes, 
Respiratory problems and other ailments in the world.



oh really, and your source for these facts is?  are the data age 
adjusted, etc. and just what other ailments are included.  This is the 
issue I have with you and others, you make what I feel are overly broad 
statements as fact, without  little or no support.  So give me  
reference or two so I can draw my own conclusions. 

or how about just statistic at a time to discuss.   How about age 
adjusted cancer rates?  (age adjusting is necessary as cancer is 
essentially inevitable, the longer you live the more likely you are to 
get cancer. 


   show me the data please.




  

  On the other hand 
there is a valley in the middle of the Himalayan mountains called Hunzaland 
that is an almost disease free area.


I have heard this canard before.  I googled hunzaland and about the only 
thing I got were people hawking their particular cure 

   The Apricot Kernel Anti-Cancer Theory
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/land_of_hunza.htm

or how about 160+ year olds
http://www.arthritis-nature-cure.com/people.htm

do really believe that?  really, you don't think someone could be less 
than forthright to make a point about a product the promote? 

or maybe it's the magnetized water
http://www.stopcancer.com/magnetpHFoundation2.htm

  

 A pure organic food diet and almost no 
pollution could be the reason for people having good health.
  


or it could all be a bunch of hype. How do we know with out better 
documentation? 


  

--
Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
=
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in 
moral philosophy; that is,
the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG

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_

  





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Re: [Biofuel] Opening the garden -- Uruguay

2006-10-17 Thread JAMES PHELPS
Tom,
You lucky (hard working) dog! I just got to shovel it today! My compost must 
be working as the 6 of snow is melting faster there than on the ground 
beside it.

I would send you some pea seed that has been in my family for years if you 
think they will make it. We have grown seed from it for over thirty years 
now. Very good eating not monsters but you can raise your own seed each 
fall.

Jim




- Original Message - 
From: Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Opening the garden -- Uruguay



 Hi Jim,

 Yes, I do. I prefer winters that don't have to be shoveled.

 Tom

   _

   From: JAMES PHELPS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:31:46 -0300
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Opening the garden -- Uruguay

 Tom,
 Do you spend the Uruguay winters in the US?

 Jim


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Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia WasTestimonials as Evidence)

2006-10-17 Thread JAMES PHELPS
Mike, Keith,

Amen.

Ps. We all form opinions based on our experiences. These often lead to folly 
but just as often they can steer us in a good direction as well. One of the 
reasons we have so little hard evidence on many of these matters is there 
are only a few studies on health and nutrition vs. the reams done on 
sickness. (as Keith mentioned) I must agree that testimonials are worthless 
when sources are narrow, but when they come from voluntary non commercial 
separate sources from all over the world,- well - Where there is smoke is 
there not often Fire?

My best to all,

Jim


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness (Was Hypnosis as Anesthesia 
WasTestimonials as Evidence)


 From the can't-help-but-stick-my-toe-in dept.

 Caveat:  No proof other than what I've read over the years.

 It has always seemed to me that the maladies that people suffer from are
 in large part due to environment/lifestyle.  In the third world,
 disease is far more likely to be as a result of the lack of food and
 adequate nutrition, wheras in the developed world, we suffer from the
 diseaeses of affluence:  diabetis being the one that comes to mind,
 along with obesity-related ailments such as heart disease, high blood
 pressure, strokes and so on.  Smoking is another factor.

 Another interesting item, from Harvard University's website:

 In particular, these studies suggest that high calcium intake doesn't
 actually appear to lower a person's risk for osteoporosis. For example,
 in the large Harvard studies of male health professionals and female
 nurses, individuals who drank one glass of milk (or less) per week were
 at no greater risk of breaking a hip or forearm than were those who
 drank two or more glasses per week.(2, 3
 http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium.html#references)
 Other studies have found similar results.

 It is odd human beings are the only animal that develop a disease if
 they don't eat the milk of another species.  Dogs don't need cat milk.

 bob allen wrote:

 Howdy Terry,
 
 Terry Dyck wrote:
 
 
 HI Bob,
 
 The Western world has the highest rate of Cancer, Heart disease, 
 Diabetes,
 Respiratory problems and other ailments in the world.
 
 
 
 oh really, and your source for these facts is?  are the data age
 adjusted, etc. and just what other ailments are included.  This is the
 issue I have with you and others, you make what I feel are overly broad
 statements as fact, without  little or no support.  So give me
 reference or two so I can draw my own conclusions.
 
 or how about just statistic at a time to discuss.   How about age
 adjusted cancer rates?  (age adjusting is necessary as cancer is
 essentially inevitable, the longer you live the more likely you are to
 get cancer.
 
 
show me the data please.
 
 
 
 
 
 
   On the other hand
 there is a valley in the middle of the Himalayan mountains called 
 Hunzaland
 that is an almost disease free area.
 
 
 I have heard this canard before.  I googled hunzaland and about the only
 thing I got were people hawking their particular cure
 
The Apricot Kernel Anti-Cancer Theory
 http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/land_of_hunza.htm
 
 or how about 160+ year olds
 http://www.arthritis-nature-cure.com/people.htm
 
 do really believe that?  really, you don't think someone could be less
 than forthright to make a point about a product the promote?
 
 or maybe it's the magnetized water
 http://www.stopcancer.com/magnetpHFoundation2.htm
 
 
 
  A pure organic food diet and almost no
 pollution could be the reason for people having good health.
 
 
 
 or it could all be a bunch of hype. How do we know with out better
 documentation?
 
 
 
 
 --
 Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob
 =
 The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in
 moral philosophy; that is,
 the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness  JKG
 
 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
 
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 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
 messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 
 
 
 
 _
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 messages):
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