Re: [Biofuel] Meet the Economist Who Thinks We're Doomed
Don't you just love the editor's note? - K - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20558.htm Exclusive Interview: Jim Rogers Predicts Bigger Financial Shocks Loom Fueling a Malaise That May Last for Years By Keith Fitz-Gerald Investment Director 19/08/08 Money Morning/The Money Map Report http://www.moneymorning.com/2008/08/19/jim-rogers/ [Editor's note: After interviewing legendary investor Jim Rogers at his home in Singapore back in March, Investment Director Keith Fitz-Gerald caught up with Rogers again in July - this time in Vancouver, where both were speaking at the Agora Wealth Symposium. Rogers talked extensively about the ill-advised bailouts of Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the potentially ruinous fallout from the financial Super Crash that's about to engulf the U.S. market. To find out how to get a report on the once-in-a-lifetime profit plays that will emanate from this so-called SuperCrash - and to also get a free copy of noted market analyst Peter D. Schiff's New York Times bestseller Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse - please click here. And look for Part 2 of Money Morning's latest interview with Jim Rogers tomorrow (Wednesday).] VANCOUVER, B.C. - The U.S. financial crisis has cut so deep - and the government has taken on so much debt in misguided attempts to bail out such companies as Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE) - that even larger financial shocks are still to come, global investing guru Jim Rogers said in an exclusive interview with Money Morning. Indeed, the U.S. financial debacle is now so ingrained - and a so-called Super Crash so likely - that most Americans alive today won't be around by the time the last of this credit-market mess is finally cleared away - if it ever is, Rogers said. The end of this crisis is a long way away, Rogers said. In fact, it may not be in our lifetimes. During a 40-minute interview during a wealth-management conference in this West Coast Canadian city last month, Rogers also said that: * U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke should resign for the bailout deals he's handed out as he's tried to battle this credit crisis. * That the U.S. national debt - the roughly $5 trillion held by the public- essentially doubled in the course of a single weekend because of the Fed-led credit crisis bailout deals. * That U.S. consumers and investors can expect much-higher interest rates - noting that if the Fed doesn't raise borrowing costs, market forces will make that happen. * And that the average American has no idea just how bad this financial crisis is going to get. The next shock is going to be bigger and bigger, still, Rogers said. The shocks keep getting bigger because we keep propping things up [and] bailing everyone out. Rogers first made a name for himself with The Quantum Fund, a hedge fund that's often described as the first real global investment fund, which he and partner George Soros founded in 1970. Over the next decade, Quantum gained 4,200%, while the Standard Poor's 500 Index climbed about 50%. It was after Rogers retired in 1980 that the investing masses got to see him in action. Rogers traveled the world (several times), and penned such bestsellers as Investment Biker and the recently released A Bull in China. And he made some historic market calls: Rogers predicted China's meteoric growth a good decade before it became apparent and he subsequently foretold of the powerful updraft in global commodities prices that's fueled a year-long bull market in the agriculture, energy and mining sectors. Rogers' candor has made him a popular figure with individual investors, meaning his pronouncements are always closely watched. Here are some of the highlights from the exclusive interview we had with the author and investor, who now makes his home in Singapore: Keith Fitz-Gerald (Q): Looks like the financial train wreck we talked about earlier this year is happening. Jim Rogers: There was a train wreck, yes. Two or three - more than one, as you know. [U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S.] Bernanke and his boys both came to the rescue. Which is going to cover things up for a while. And then I don't know how long the rally will last and then we'll be off to the races again. Whether the rally lasts six days or six weeks, I don't know. I wish I did know that sort of thing, but I never do. (Q):What would Chairman Bernanke have to do to get it right? Rogers: Resign. (Q): Is there anything else that you think he could do that would be correct other than let these things fail? Rogers: Well, at this stage, it doesn't seem like he can do it. He could raise interest rates - which he should do, anyway. Somebody should. The market's going to do it whether he does it or not, eventually. The problem is that he's got all that garbage on his balance
Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick
Hi All ; What a fascinating review, presented in a much more convincing way than I ever could. And sorry to say, I have come to the same conclusion after grappling with the question from every angle over several years. Here's an example. I can buy a can of tuna fish for 30 Thai baht, less than $1. Deep sea tuna are being fished to extinction and yet I can buy a can for under $1. The price should be $10 or higher to reduce demand, right? But the problem is, if I artificially set the price at $10, what is the first thing that will happen? Answer: a whole bunch of people will buy boats and go tuna fishing because it will be so profitable. Capitalism causes this problem, and capitalism cannot provide a solution. My view (after many years of somber contemplation) (and probably not shared by everyone) is that the average person, unfortunately, is not capable of making decisions that effect the whole society. This includes finite resource allocation and includes election of government leaders. Sorry, but I no longer beleive the average person is capable of self government. The fact that GWB got elected twice should be proof enough lol. After the American revolution when the society was young and God fearing, capitalism worked amazingly well. But American society is haemorrhaging, spiraling down, and therefore not stable. The posted articlce is right on the money (sorry Americans spreading democracy). Capitalisn doesn't work in the long run ( 500 years). Short run, emphatically YES it works. BR Peter G. Thailand ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick
Not that I put a lot of though into it but why would the industries sell it at 10$ ? They want to sell they don't want to reduce demand. More the opposite. Someone else should make that it is sold at 10$. Maybe an on the way to be extinct tax. Then no one would be interested to buy a boat and go tuna fishing... Maybe after all it is what you're saying when writing, but I no longer believe the average person is capable of self government. They need a government to govern. Olivier Nepal From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:43:59 -0700 (PDT) To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick Hi All ; What a fascinating review, presented in a much more convincing way than I ever could. And sorry to say, I have come to the same conclusion after grappling with the question from every angle over several years. Here's an example. I can buy a can of tuna fish for 30 Thai baht, less than $1. Deep sea tuna are being fished to extinction and yet I can buy a can for under $1. The price should be $10 or higher to reduce demand, right? But the problem is, if I artificially set the price at $10, what is the first thing that will happen? Answer: a whole bunch of people will buy boats and go tuna fishing because it will be so profitable. Capitalism causes this problem, and capitalism cannot provide a solution. My view (after many years of somber contemplation) (and probably not shared by everyone) is that the average person, unfortunately, is not capable of making decisions that effect the whole society. This includes finite resource allocation and includes election of government leaders. Sorry, but I no longer beleive the average person is capable of self government. The fact that GWB got elected twice should be proof enough lol. After the American revolution when the society was young and God fearing, capitalism worked amazingly well. But American society is haemorrhaging, spiraling down, and therefore not stable. The posted articlce is right on the money (sorry Americans spreading democracy). Capitalisn doesn't work in the long run ( 500 years). Short run, emphatically YES it works. BR Peter G. Thailand ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick
The fact that GWB got elected twice should be proof enough lol. Sorry, he did NOT get elected, twice. Florida,s recounts and then the court deciding on the outcome doesn't count as an election!!! I think the people can govern themselves, even Americans. Now, they are being governed by large corporations, not by their elected officials. Bernard Guag Meister wrote: Hi All ; What a fascinating review, presented in a much more convincing way than I ever could. And sorry to say, I have come to the same conclusion after grappling with the question from every angle over several years. Here's an example. I can buy a can of tuna fish for 30 Thai baht, less than $1. Deep sea tuna are being fished to extinction and yet I can buy a can for under $1. The price should be $10 or higher to reduce demand, right? But the problem is, if I artificially set the price at $10, what is the first thing that will happen? Answer: a whole bunch of people will buy boats and go tuna fishing because it will be so profitable. Capitalism causes this problem, and capitalism cannot provide a solution. My view (after many years of somber contemplation) (and probably not shared by everyone) is that the average person, unfortunately, is not capable of making decisions that effect the whole society. This includes finite resource allocation and includes election of government leaders. Sorry, but I no longer beleive the average person is capable of self government. The fact that GWB got elected twice should be proof enough lol. After the American revolution when the society was young and God fearing, capitalism worked amazingly well. But American society is haemorrhaging, spiraling down, and therefore not stable. The posted articlce is right on the money (sorry Americans spreading democracy). Capitalisn doesn't work in the long run ( 500 years). Short run, emphatically YES it works. BR Peter G. Thailand ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.5/1620 - Release Date: 8/19/2008 6:04 AM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick
Bernard wrote: The fact that GWB got elected twice should be proof enough lol. Sorry, he did NOT get elected, twice. Florida,s recounts and then the court deciding on the outcome doesn't count as an election!!! I think the people can govern themselves, even Americans. Now, they are being governed by large corporations, not by their elected officials. Bernard snip Maybe 'the people' as in 'we the people' can govern themselves, here in the US. However, democracy, as envisioned by Thomas Jefferson, as freeholders collectively agreeing to govern in broad best interest was never done. And democracy, as envisioned by Abraham Lincoln, as government of, by, and for the people, has never even been tried, outside of a very few small local communities. Look at what we have now for American Leadership hopefuls. In a day, when the consequences of the growth at any cost, completely pro corporate directions the country has taken for time out of mind, are immediately apparent to even a barely conscientious observer; The debate about how much more drilling is on going. The only sane answer, let me restate, the ONLY SANE answer, is NO MORE DRILLING, ANYWHERE. Yet, the debate is over how much new drilling. One wants more new drilling than the other. Pick a leader, any leader. Please. what kinda card trick is this anyway? -- Chip Mefford Before Enlightenment; chop wood carry water After Enlightenment; chop wood carry water - Public Key http://www.well.com/user/cpm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick
Hi Olivier, Peter and all Not that I put a lot of though into it but why would the industries sell it at 10$ ? They want to sell they don't want to reduce demand. More the opposite. Someone else should make that it is sold at 10$. Maybe an on the way to be extinct tax. Then no one would be interested to buy a boat and go tuna fishing... Maybe after all it is what you're saying when writing, but I no longer believe the average person is capable of self government. They've been rendered that way. It's a manufactured incapability, an add-on, like a governor on a fast car. It used to be something that was easier to believe in. Our grandparents were often a lot more competent than we are, in many ways. And that much less spun. There's this though, from OGL today, and many other examples too: It may not have happened yet in the US but in many (indeed most) European countries organic food production is part of normal school life - within the next five years I'm prepared to bet that every school here will be producing food - albeit on a small scale - using organic methods. Which means that the gap in generations will have been bridged. Unlike their parents, and even their older siblings, those children will know where food comes from and how it is grown and will have basic skills to build on. I'm betting the US won't be far behind. Twenty years ago the national media were interviewing me as an interesting madwoman, these days they are almost deferential. Kathryn Marsh, Organic Gardening Discussion List Is it average to be incapable? It might seem so, but I think it's just a minority. Eg.: decisions that effect the whole society. This includes finite resource allocation and includes election of government leaders. Sorry, but I no But it's not the average person who gets to do those things. They don't tell ExxonMobil or Saudi Arabia or Cargill or Monsanto what to do, nor Cheney's Energy Task Force or the World Bank or Wall Street, while a look at the current total of US presidential campaign funding gives a fair idea of who can afford to buy the White House, and it's not Joe Soap. Don't confuse people with the institutions and corporations, they're not human, they're not just composed of the people who work for them. The reviewer writes: As Cox will convince you if you do not already know, much of what is happening to our planet is due to human ignorance and greed, expressed through the agency of big corporations and with the connivance of governments. That's wrong, it's the other way round, if anything - big corporations and conniving governments are not human, and it's not ignorance and/or greed either, those are human qualities. Please see: http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous5.html#creed They need a government to govern. The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. . . . In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons . . . who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind. This definition of democratic society is itself a contradiction in terms--a theoretical attempt to reconcile rule by the few with the democratic system which threatened (and still threatens) the privileges and powers of the governing elite. -- From: The Father of Spin: Edward L. Bernays The Birth of PR, Larry Tye, book review by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html Actually Bernays was wrong: it's not the PR folks who do the manipulation who control the public mind and constitute the invisible government, it's the ones who pay them. He's also wrong in implying that it works - it does work, but for how long? It enables and empowers unfettered capitalism, which eventually and inevitably screws it all up: unless capitalism is somewhat fettered through having to operate within an awake and aware society, the rising tide of sheer hubris eventually becomes impossible to ignore, no matter how thoroughly spun people might be. The last three years or so have been a rude awakening for very many people. About time too. Cox is writing about something that's already happening, whether he's quite aware of that or not. Millions of people are building this stuff out of their systems and their lives and finding their way forward, and indeed opposing it. You don't see a lot about it in the mainstream media, especially not in the US, but then the average Joe doesn't get to tell the New York Times what to do either (though it's supposed to be working on his behalf, allegedly).
Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick
Pick a leader, any leader. Please. what kinda card trick is this anyway? :-) Pick the wrong card, you lose, pick the right card, you lose anyway. If voting could change anything it would be illegal - graffiti in the men's toilet at a Brighton pub, circa 1980 Maybe it's time to try negative democracy, it's might be more reality-based - with negative democracy you vote against the candidate you hate the most instead of being reduced to voting for the least worst one, and the candidate who gets the fewest votes wins. People would probably enjoy that a lot more too, there'd be high turnouts. Also, elections must be globalised, along the same lines as world trade: we need new rules for free democracy. While candidates should of course be national citizens, we have to roll back the restrictive national barriers on elections, so that anybody anywhere will be able to vote in any election anywhere against the candidates they hate the most. It'd work! LOL! Well, it's not as insane as this is: Voting Machines Can Never Be Trusted, Says GOP Computer Security Expert http://www.alternet.org/story/94895/ Best Keith Bernard wrote: The fact that GWB got elected twice should be proof enough lol. Sorry, he did NOT get elected, twice. Florida,s recounts and then the court deciding on the outcome doesn't count as an election!!! I think the people can govern themselves, even Americans. Now, they are being governed by large corporations, not by their elected officials. Bernard snip Maybe 'the people' as in 'we the people' can govern themselves, here in the US. However, democracy, as envisioned by Thomas Jefferson, as freeholders collectively agreeing to govern in broad best interest was never done. And democracy, as envisioned by Abraham Lincoln, as government of, by, and for the people, has never even been tried, outside of a very few small local communities. Look at what we have now for American Leadership hopefuls. In a day, when the consequences of the growth at any cost, completely pro corporate directions the country has taken for time out of mind, are immediately apparent to even a barely conscientious observer; The debate about how much more drilling is on going. The only sane answer, let me restate, the ONLY SANE answer, is NO MORE DRILLING, ANYWHERE. Yet, the debate is over how much new drilling. One wants more new drilling than the other. Pick a leader, any leader. Please. what kinda card trick is this anyway? -- Chip Mefford Before Enlightenment; chop wood carry water After Enlightenment; chop wood carry water - Public Key http://www.well.com/user/cpm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] SOLD: rBGH for $300 Million
http://www.lavidalocavore.org/showDiary.do?diaryId=312 La Vida Locavore SOLD: rBGH for $300 Million by: Jill Richardson Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:09:53 AM PDT Elanco, a division of Eli Lilly just bought Posilac (the brand name of rBGH) from Monsanto [PDF alert]. http://www.elanco.com/images/Posilac_FAQ.pdf Dang that was quick. What I found most interesting in their press release was all the BS they felt it was necessary to include: Is milk from non-supplemented cows different from rbST-supplemented cows? No. All milk is the same. Because rbST is genetically identical to what cows produce naturally, milk from rbST-supplemented cows cannot be distinguished from milk that is produced by cows without using rbST. Does rbST negatively affect animal health? For products to be approved, they must meet stringent animal-safety criteria, and this product has met such criteria of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as well as those of 19 other regulatory authorities that have approved this product for use in dairy cows. What does the acquisition of Posilac mean for the dairy industry and consumers? The acquisition further enhances Elanco's commitment to the dairy industry. It means farmers have continued access to this vital technology. And, that consumers can continue to have access to affordable, wholesome milk. Why are you buying what some see as a controversial product? We recognize the overwhelming scientific evidence that Posilac is safe, and that milk from rbST- supplemented cows is the same as all milk - despite the mistaken assertions of some special-interest groups. Lying about it already. Obviously they were the right customer for the product. They are going to have a conference call with more info about it later today (11am PST). I can hardly wait to hear what they have to say. Jill Richardson ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] SOLD: rBGH for $300 Million
Keith Addison wrote: http://www.lavidalocavore.org/showDiary.do?diaryId=312 La Vida Locavore SOLD: rBGH for $300 Million by: Jill Richardson Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:09:53 AM PDT Elanco, a division of Eli Lilly just bought Posilac (the brand name of rBGH) from Monsanto [PDF alert]. http://www.elanco.com/images/Posilac_FAQ.pdf Dang that was quick. What I found most interesting in their press release was all the BS they felt it was necessary to include: Make sense. Eli Lilly jointly developed this horror with Monsanto, and they already 'own' the European Market for Prosilac, even though it's still outlawed there, the pressure is on. The EU will cave on this I expect. -- Chip Mefford Before Enlightenment; chop wood carry water After Enlightenment; chop wood carry water - Public Key http://www.well.com/user/cpm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Meet the Economist Who Thinks We're Doomed
Keith, there's a myth floating around among the rich and would-be rich, that some very smart people saw the Great Depression coming, and made fortunes out of it. It's a myth that just happens to be true. These greedheads may serve a useful purpose. If the financial people and the comfortably-off foot soldiers of the right wing start thinking that the system is rotten, that they've been swindled by their leaders, then the ruling circles of Wall Street and the politicians may think it's worthwhile to do something about it, especially if the market anticipates the crash to such an extent that it's impossible for the smart guys to make a killing on it. The wonders of free enterprise... Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Keith Addison wrote: Don't you just love the editor's note? - K - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20558.htm Exclusive Interview: Jim Rogers Predicts Bigger Financial Shocks Loom Fueling a Malaise That May Last for Years By Keith Fitz-Gerald Investment Director 19/08/08 Money Morning/The Money Map Report http://www.moneymorning.com/2008/08/19/jim-rogers/ [Editor's note: After interviewing legendary investor Jim Rogers at his home in Singapore back in March, Investment Director Keith Fitz-Gerald caught up with Rogers again in July - this time in Vancouver, where both were speaking at the Agora Wealth Symposium. Rogers talked extensively about the ill-advised bailouts of Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the potentially ruinous fallout from the financial Super Crash that's about to engulf the U.S. market. To find out how to get a report on the once-in-a-lifetime profit plays that will emanate from this so-called SuperCrash - and to also get a free copy of noted market analyst Peter D. Schiff's New York Times bestseller Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse - please click here. And look for Part 2 of Money Morning's latest interview with Jim Rogers tomorrow (Wednesday).] [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Why the Planet is Sick
Hi Keith ; Yes we are in agreement that corporations are not human and they are mostly responsible for many problems. And granted there is a renaissance with organic growing, and biofuels, and conservation, and also the awareness of the problems. But I think what I am saying is that I am taking this even further than that. Let's say we have a huge awakening of the population and we do whatever it is that will fix all these problems. My point is that this new nirvana state of being is not a stable state for the long term. The forces at work today will continue to work to undermine this new nirvana, and my feeling is that eventually they will succeed again (500 years or so). So these states will oscillate back and forth and it is not a stable state of being. The famous cliche If we learn anything from history, it is that we learn nothing from history is so true. The future generations of this nirvana state will forget the lessons we learned today about corporations and they will do it all over again. You cannot tell them now to not allow that to happen 500 years in the future. You can try but you cannot be successful. Previous generations have already told us not to do the things we are doing and yet we are doing it. Future generations will not listen to you. So our society is unstable and not in a stable state. How to fix this problem for the long term ( 5,000 years)?? In my opinion there is only 1 way that could work, and it clearly would not be possible by patching the current system (hint). Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand Don't confuse people with the institutions and corporations, they're not human, they're not just composed of the people who work for them. The reviewer writes: As Cox will convince you if you do not already know, much of what is happening to our planet is due to human ignorance and greed, expressed through the agency of big corporations and with the connivance of governments. That's wrong, it's the other way round, if anything - big corporations and conniving governments are not human, and it's not ignorance and/or greed either, those are human qualities. Please see: http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous5.html#creed Actually Bernays was wrong: it's not the PR folks who do the manipulation who control the public mind and constitute the invisible government, it's the ones who pay them. He's also wrong in implying that it works - it does work, but for how long? It enables and empowers unfettered capitalism, which eventually and inevitably screws it all up: unless capitalism is somewhat fettered through having to operate within an awake and aware society, the rising tide of sheer hubris eventually becomes impossible to ignore, no matter how thoroughly spun people might be. The last three years or so have been a rude awakening for very many people. About time too. Cox is writing about something that's already happening, whether he's quite aware of that or not. Millions of people are building this stuff out of their systems and their lives and finding their way forward, and indeed opposing it. You don't see a lot about it in the mainstream media, especially not in the US, but then the average Joe doesn't get to tell the New York Times what to do either (though it's supposed to be working on his behalf, allegedly). The spirit of Seattle and Cancun is alive, says Vandana Shiva right at the beginning in The Collapse Of The WTO Doha Negotiations And The Future Of Food And Farmers. http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/commentaries/3580 August, 09 2008 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
