Re: [Biofuel] Whales hunting ban - final vote
Hi Chris talk about synchronicity. :-) Excellent stuff, synchronicity, there's always something deeply reassuring about it. i heard two tidbits today. first (note that i didn't have time to cross-check this one), the latest data indicates that the oceans are even warmer, and warming at a faster rate, than had been thought until now. which means that global warming is farther along than previously believed, since about 90% of atmospheric warming gets absorbed by the oceans. For years now, each time there've been new findings they say it's worse than they expected it to be. It's ridiculous that people are still talking of 12/25 or even 25/25. Let alone Peak Oil - as if it matters! Peak Heroin? second, some dudes in australia have shown that whale poop, much like that of grazing animals, promotes carbon sequestration by providing phytoplankton with valuable nutrients. whale poqulations worldwide are, depending on the species, at 1 to 10 percent of their former levels. the australian team calculates that sperm whales in the southern hemisphere alone, if allowed to regain their former numbers, would effectively remove 2 million tons of carbon dioxide annually. That's really interesting, I never would have thought of that. Have you got a link? The Aussies are getting very impatient with the Japanese about this, putting on all sorts of pressure, more and more so. Good on them. The Japanese are either utterly oblivious, or offended that people are criticising their traditions. I'll criticise their traditions - just what sort of sociopathic idiot do you have to be to think there can ever be any shred of an excuse for killing a whale? Traditions my ass. Most Japanese are completely unaware that there's any sort of issue or problem over the annual dolphin slaughter at Taiji and elsewhere, if they've even heard of it. They haven't got a clue, in spite of all the fuss over The Cove. Several cinemas here were running The Cove, in Tokyo and Osaka, but they withdrew it, because of threats and harassment by right-wing groups. Nationalists oppose the film as a denigration of Japanese culture. Hmphh. That's very unsatisfactory - isn't there a better net-lingo snort of derision and contempt than Hmphh? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Whales hunting ban - final vote
i know! i was tempted to sneak several yet agains in there. re the whale story, i heard it on the radio, and just googled whale and feces and iron, which gave a lot of hits. the first link was an article in mother jones from a couple days ago (which mentioned the australians' findings were published in a uk journal). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The Spill, The Scandal and the President - 1
http://www.rollingstone.com:80/politics/news/17390/111965 Rolling Stone The Spill, The Scandal and the President The inside story of how Obama failed to crack down on the corruption of the Bush years - and let the world's most dangerous oil company get away with murder By Tim Dickinson Jun 08, 2010 PART 1 This article originally appeared in RS 1107 from June 24, 2010. On May 27th, more than a month into the worst environmental disaster in U.S. history, Barack Obama strode to the podium in the East Room of the White House. For weeks, the administration had been insisting that BP alone was to blame for the catastrophic oil spill in the Gulf - and the ongoing failure to stop the massive leak. They have the technical expertise to plug the hole, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs had said only six days earlier. It is their responsibility. The president, Gibbs added, lacked the authority to play anything more than a supervisory role - a curious line of argument from an administration that has reserved the right to assassinate American citizens abroad and has nationalized much of the auto industry. If BP is not accomplishing the task, can you just federalize it? a reporter asked. No, Gibbs replied. Now, however, the president was suddenly standing up to take command of the cleanup effort. In case you were wondering who's responsible, Obama told the nation, I take responsibility. Sounding chastened, he acknowledged that his administration had failed to adequately reform the Minerals Management Service, the scandal-ridden federal agency that for years had essentially allowed the oil industry to self-regulate. There wasn't sufficient urgency, the president said. Absolutely I take responsibility for that. He also admitted that he had been too credulous of the oil giants: I was wrong in my belief that the oil companies had their act together when it came to worst-case scenarios. He unveiled a presidential commission to investigate the disaster, discussed the resignation of the head of MMS, and extended a moratorium on new deepwater drilling. The buck, he reiterated the next day on the sullied Louisiana coastline, stops with me. Meet Obama's sheriff, Ken Salazar. What didn't stop was the gusher. Hours before the president's press conference, an ominous plume of oil six miles wide and 22 miles long was discovered snaking its way toward Mobile Bay from BP's wellhead next to the wreckage of its Deepwater Horizon rig. Admiral Thad Allen, the U.S. commander overseeing the cleanup, framed the spill explicitly as an invasion: The enemy is coming ashore, he said. Louisiana beaches were assaulted by blobs of oil that began to seep beneath the sand; acres of marshland at the Bird's Foot, where the Mississippi meets the Gulf, were befouled by shit-brown crude - a death sentence for wetlands that serve as the cradle for much of the region's vital marine life. By the time Obama spoke, it was increasingly evident that this was not merely an ecological disaster. It was the most devastating assault on American soil since 9/11. Like the attacks by Al Qaeda, the disaster in the Gulf was preceded by ample warnings - yet the administration had ignored them. Instead of cracking down on MMS, as he had vowed to do even before taking office, Obama left in place many of the top officials who oversaw the agency's culture of corruption. He permitted it to rubber-stamp dangerous drilling operations by BP - a firm with the worst safety record of any oil company - with virtually no environmental safeguards, using industry-friendly regulations drafted during the Bush years. He calibrated his response to the Gulf spill based on flawed and misleading estimates from BP - and then deployed his top aides to lowball the flow rate at a laughable 5,000 barrels a day, long after the best science made clear this catastrophe would eclipse the Exxon Valdez. Meet the Environmental Protection Agency's most progressive leader ever, Lisa Jackson. Hours after BP's rig sank on April 22nd, a white board in NOAA's war room in Seattle displays the administration's initial, worst-case estimate of the spill - 64,000 to 110,000 barrels a day. Photo courtesy of al.com Even after the president's press conference, Rolling Stone has learned, the administration knew the spill could be far worse than its best estimate acknowledged. That same day, the president's Flow Rate Technical Group - a team of scientists charged with establishing the gusher's output - announced a new estimate of 12,000 to 25,000 barrels, based on calculations from video of the plume. In fact, according to interviews with team members and scientists familiar with its work, that figure represents the plume group's minimum estimate. The upper range was not included in their report because scientists analyzing the flow were unable to reach a consensus on how bad it could be. The upper bound from the plume group, if it had come
[Biofuel] The Spill, The Scandal and the President - 2
http://www.rollingstone.com:80/politics/news/17390/111965 Rolling Stone The Spill, The Scandal and the President The inside story of how Obama failed to crack down on the corruption of the Bush years - and let the world's most dangerous oil company get away with murder By Tim Dickinson Jun 08, 2010 PART 2 People are being really circumspect, not pointing the finger at Salazar and Obama, says Rep. Raul Grijalva, who oversees the Interior Department as chair of the House subcommittee on public lands. But the troublesome point is, the administration knew that it had this rot in the middle of the process on offshore drilling - yet it empowered an already discredited, disgraced agency to essentially be in charge. On April 6th of last year, less than a month after BP submitted its application, MMS gave the oil giant the go-ahead to drill in the Gulf without a comprehensive environmental review. The one-page approval put no restrictions on BP, issuing only a mild suggestion that would prove prescient: Exercise caution while drilling due to indications of shallow gas. BP is the last oil company on Earth that Salazar and MMS should have allowed to regulate itself. The firm is implicated in each of the worst oil disasters in American history, dating back to the Exxon Valdez in 1989. At the time, BP directed the industry consortium that bungled the cleanup response to Valdez during the fateful early hours of the spill, when the worst of the damage occurred. Vital equipment was buried under snow, no cleanup ship was standing by and no containment barge was available to collect skimmed oil. Exxon, quickly recognizing what still seems to elude the Obama administration, quickly shunted BP aside and took control of the spill. In March 2006, BP was responsible for an Alaska pipeline rupture that spilled more than 250,000 gallons of crude into Prudhoe Bay - at the time, a spill second in size only to the Valdez disaster. Investigators found that BP had repeatedly ignored internal warnings about corrosion brought about by draconian cost cutting. The company got off cheap in the spill: While the EPA recommended slapping the firm with as much as $672 million in fines, the Bush administration allowed it to settle for just $20 million. BP has also cut corners at the expense of its own workers. In 2005, 15 workers were killed and 170 injured after a tower filled with gasoline exploded at a BP refinery in Texas. Investigators found that the company had flouted its own safety procedures and illegally shut off a warning system before the blast. An internal cost-benefit analysis conducted by BP - explicitly based on the children's tale The Three Little Pigs - revealed that the oil giant had considered making buildings at the refinery blast-resistant to protect its workers (the pigs) from an explosion (the wolf). BP knew lives were on the line: If the wolf blows down the house, the piggy is gobbled. But the company determined it would be cheaper to simply pay off the families of dead pigs. After the blast, BP pleaded guilty to a felony, paying $50 million to settle a criminal investigation and another $21 million for violating federal safety laws. But the fines failed to force BP to change its ways. In October, Labor Secretary Hilda Solis hit the company with a proposed $87 million in new fines - the highest in history - for continued safety violations at the same facility. Since 2007, according to analysis by the Center for Public Integrity, BP has received 760 citations for egregious and willful safety violations - those committed with plain indifference to or intentional disregard for employee safety and health. The rest of the oil industry combined has received a total of one. The company applied the same deadly cost-cutting mentality to its oil rig in the Gulf. BP, it is important to note, is less an oil company than a bank that finances oil exploration; unlike ExxonMobil, which owns most of the equipment it uses to drill, BP contracts out almost everything. That includes the Deepwater Horizon rig that it leased from a firm called Transocean. BP shaved $500,000 off its overhead by deploying a blowout preventer without a remote-control trigger - a fail-safe measure required in many countries but not mandated by MMS, thanks to intense industry lobbying. It opted to use cheap, single-walled piping for the well, and installed only six of the 21 cement spacers recommended by its contractor, Halliburton - decisions that significantly increased the risk of a severe explosion. It also skimped on critical testing that could have shown whether explosive gas was getting into the system as it was being cemented, and began removing mud that protected the well before it was sealed with cement plugs. As BP was cutting corners aboard the rig, the Obama administration was plotting the greatest expansion of offshore drilling in half a century. In 2008, as prices at
Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: It was a joke! No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words suspect and coordinated effort are terms of accusation, not terms that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from you. Hardly overwhelming. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim I see I am still getting new e-mails. I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated effort to overwhelm me. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two latest messages in the discussion are both from you. As the list owner, I know of no emails sent to you other than those sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list archives, here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ My initial message introducing you to the list said Please respond onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now). If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be done to put a stop to it. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote: jim, i posed some questions early on, which i'm glad to see you answered (in part) when responding to jason. it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with. whether it be your economic development budget, or other funding streams which might be under the control of other administrators, but which you could influence in your capacity to coordinate programs. there are almost certainly grant monies which you could bring in as well. not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise) to the cause. i would encourage you, if you haven't already, to explore all of this. you might be surprised by what you can pull together. that said, in my opinion fritz (i think it was fritz) and jason are on the right track. and i wouldn't stop at biofuels. wind, solar, even small scale hydro. all of these things require research (i.e. what are the wind, water power, and biomass resources in your area). this is where your community colleges, tecnical schools and so on would play a key role. when it comes to actually put shovels in the ground, so to speak, lots of materials are to be had for next to nothing at your local scrap metal yard or trash dump. i could go on, but the point is, there is much you can do that doesn't hinge entirely on whether or not some outside entity decides to bring their venture, which might or might succed, to your neighborhood. Chris, /it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with/ None of which I know. But we have a state USDA director who is very excited about algae. I'll see how interested he might be. From there I'll go looking. /not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise/ I have been in touch with a VP at AlgaeVenture. My governor's regional director has promised me that the two of us are going up there to meet with them. Be sure I'll bring the matter up for discussion. There is another firm out west with whose president I have also been corresponding. I think either firm might take a project like this under its wings as long as no investment was being sought. (These guys are all looking for money themselves) /and i wouldn't stop at biofuels. wind, solar, even small scale hydro/ And let's not forget there are other uses for algae, animal feedstock, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, etc. As for wind, southern Ohio is a very poor place for wind. PV solar is being explored here. We are having trouble getting farmers to offer suitable land for lease for solar farms. Looking at rooftop deployment, limited footprint available. I keep plugging, though I am not a particular fan of PV, even though my senior project in engineering school was on PV and I worked in the semicinductor industry for years. It's just too expensive yet. Scientists and engineers are working on bringing up the efficiency but all their solutions look terribly expensive to me. Still we can hope. I want all of you to know that you have me looking at this from a new
Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
Jim Chalker wrote: OK, If you are going to accuse me in this fashion It was a straightforward comment, and I didn't expect you to like it, but I don't see how you can call it an accusation. The terms of accusation were all yours. please remove me from this mailing list! I'm afraid you have to do that yourself. The unsubscribe details are in the headers of every message you receive from the list. You'll need your password, which you were sent when you were subscribed. If you didn't see it or lost it you can have it emailed to you. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Jim On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: It was a joke! No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words suspect and coordinated effort are terms of accusation, not terms that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from you. Hardly overwhelming. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim I see I am still getting new e-mails. I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated effort to overwhelm me. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two latest messages in the discussion are both from you. As the list owner, I know of no emails sent to you other than those sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list archives, here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ My initial message introducing you to the list said Please respond onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now). If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be done to put a stop to it. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote: jim, i posed some questions early on, which i'm glad to see you answered (in part) when responding to jason. it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with. whether it be your economic development budget, or other funding streams which might be under the control of other administrators, but which you could influence in your capacity to coordinate programs. there are almost certainly grant monies which you could bring in as well. not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise) to the cause. i would encourage you, if you haven't already, to explore all of this. you might be surprised by what you can pull together. that said, in my opinion fritz (i think it was fritz) and jason are on the right track. and i wouldn't stop at biofuels. wind, solar, even small scale hydro. all of these things require research (i.e. what are the wind, water power, and biomass resources in your area). this is where your community colleges, tecnical schools and so on would play a key role. when it comes to actually put shovels in the ground, so to speak, lots of materials are to be had for next to nothing at your local scrap metal yard or trash dump. i could go on, but the point is, there is much you can do that doesn't hinge entirely on whether or not some outside entity decides to bring their venture, which might or might succed, to your neighborhood. Chris, /it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with/ None of which I know. But we have a state USDA director who is very excited about algae. I'll see how interested he might be. From there I'll go looking. /not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise/ I have been in touch with a VP at AlgaeVenture. My governor's regional director has promised me that the two of us are going up there to meet with them. Be sure I'll bring the matter up for discussion. There is another firm out west with whose president I have also been corresponding. I think either firm might take a project like this under its wings as long as no investment was being sought. (These guys are all looking for money themselves) /and i wouldn't stop at biofuels. wind, solar, even small scale hydro/ And let's not forget there are other uses for algae, animal feedstock, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals, etc. As
Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
On 6/18/2010 9:22 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: OK, If you are going to accuse me in this fashion It was a straightforward comment, and I didn't expect you to like it, but I don't see how you can call it an accusation. The terms of accusation were all yours. please remove me from this mailing list! I'm afraid you have to do that yourself. The unsubscribe details are in the headers of every message you receive from the list. You'll need your password, which you were sent when you were subscribed. If you didn't see it or lost it you can have it emailed to you. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Jim On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: It was a joke! No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words suspect and coordinated effort are terms of accusation, not terms that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from you. Hardly overwhelming. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim I see I am still getting new e-mails. I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated effort to overwhelm me. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two latest messages in the discussion are both from you. As the list owner, I know of no emails sent to you other than those sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list archives, here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ My initial message introducing you to the list said Please respond onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now). If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be done to put a stop to it. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote: jim, i posed some questions early on, which i'm glad to see you answered (in part) when responding to jason. it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with. whether it be your economic development budget, or other funding streams which might be under the control of other administrators, but which you could influence in your capacity to coordinate programs. there are almost certainly grant monies which you could bring in as well. not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise) to the cause. i would encourage you, if you haven't already, to explore all of this. you might be surprised by what you can pull together. that said, in my opinion fritz (i think it was fritz) and jason are on the right track. and i wouldn't stop at biofuels. wind, solar, even small scale hydro. all of these things require research (i.e. what are the wind, water power, and biomass resources in your area). this is where your community colleges, tecnical schools and so on would play a key role. when it comes to actually put shovels in the ground, so to speak, lots of materials are to be had for next to nothing at your local scrap metal yard or trash dump. i could go on, but the point is, there is much you can do that doesn't hinge entirely on whether or not some outside entity decides to bring their venture, which might or might succed, to your neighborhood. Chris, /it would still help to know what sort of funds you have to work with/ None of which I know. But we have a state USDA director who is very excited about algae. I'll see how interested he might be. From there I'll go looking. /not to mention existing local business which might be convinced to donate money or resources (materials, transportation, expertise/ I have been in touch with a VP at AlgaeVenture. My governor's regional director has promised me that the two of us are going up there to meet with them. Be sure I'll bring the matter up for discussion. There is another firm out west with whose president I have also been corresponding. I think either firm might
Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
Jim Chalker wrote: I told you it was a joke. You came back and called me a liar. It's that simple. No it isn't that simple. I didn't call you a liar. I said it wasn't a joke, and indeed it wasn't, too many loaded terms for it to be a joke. It's right there, below, see for yourself. Are you now going to say I've called you a liar again by not agreeing that it's that simple? That's the second time. I didn't accuse you of anything either, all the accusations were yours. As a self-proclaimed profound lover of the English language you sure are careless with it. And why do you keep raising the ante? Aren't you going to unsubscribe? Or was that just a threat? Strange kind of threat, if so. Go on, all you have to do is hit the button. Come to think of it, you might not even need your password, I forget, never having done it myself. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/18/2010 9:22 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: OK, If you are going to accuse me in this fashion It was a straightforward comment, and I didn't expect you to like it, but I don't see how you can call it an accusation. The terms of accusation were all yours. please remove me from this mailing list! I'm afraid you have to do that yourself. The unsubscribe details are in the headers of every message you receive from the list. You'll need your password, which you were sent when you were subscribed. If you didn't see it or lost it you can have it emailed to you. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Jim On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: It was a joke! No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words suspect and coordinated effort are terms of accusation, not terms that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from you. Hardly overwhelming. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim I see I am still getting new e-mails. I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated effort to overwhelm me. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two latest messages in the discussion are both from you. As the list owner, I know of no emails sent to you other than those sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list archives, here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ My initial message introducing you to the list said Please respond onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now). If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be done to put a stop to it. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote: snip It was a joke! OK, If you are going to accuse me in this fashion please remove me from this mailing list! Jim I told you it was a joke. You came back and called me a liar. It's that simple. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
On 6/18/2010 1:46 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: I told you it was a joke. You came back and called me a liar. It's that simple. No it isn't that simple. I didn't call you a liar. I said it wasn't a joke, and indeed it wasn't, too many loaded terms for it to be a joke. It's right there, below, see for yourself. Are you now going to say I've called you a liar again by not agreeing that it's that simple? That's the second time. I didn't accuse you of anything either, all the accusations were yours. As a self-proclaimed profound lover of the English language you sure are careless with it. And why do you keep raising the ante? Aren't you going to unsubscribe? Or was that just a threat? Strange kind of threat, if so. Go on, all you have to do is hit the button. Come to think of it, you might not even need your password, I forget, never having done it myself. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/18/2010 9:22 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: OK, If you are going to accuse me in this fashion It was a straightforward comment, and I didn't expect you to like it, but I don't see how you can call it an accusation. The terms of accusation were all yours. please remove me from this mailing list! I'm afraid you have to do that yourself. The unsubscribe details are in the headers of every message you receive from the list. You'll need your password, which you were sent when you were subscribed. If you didn't see it or lost it you can have it emailed to you. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Jim On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: It was a joke! No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words suspect and coordinated effort are terms of accusation, not terms that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from you. Hardly overwhelming. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim I see I am still getting new e-mails. I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated effort to overwhelm me. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two latest messages in the discussion are both from you. As the list owner, I know of no emails sent to you other than those sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list archives, here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ My initial message introducing you to the list said Please respond onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now). If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be done to put a stop to it. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote: snip It was a joke! OK, If you are going to accuse me in this fashion please remove me from this mailing list! Jim I told you it was a joke. You came back and called me a liar. It's that simple. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Keith I am done talking to you about this. Drop it! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
Jim Chalker wrote: Keith I am done talking to you about this. Drop it! Yessah!! LOL!! We'll see. It depends on you. I suggest you read the List rules, since you obviiously haven't done so, and you've now broken them quite a few times. You're required to read the List rules and to heed them: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg70818.html [Biofuel] List rules For instance, you've simply ignored a lot of things people have said, and asked (no, I'm not talking about me). That's contrary to the List rules, and it's bad Netiquette too - never mind the Net, it's bad etiquette. If someone questions you, don't just ignore them. You should be prepared to substantiate what you say, or to acknowledge it if you can't. (Biofuel list rules) Now you're giving the List owner angry orders. There must be quite a few people here who're surprised you haven't got the boot yet (and failed to remove yourself, having demanded it). Try some decorum, maybe you'll get on a little better. (Or just hit the List-Unsubscribe link in the header.) Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/18/2010 1:46 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: I told you it was a joke. You came back and called me a liar. It's that simple. No it isn't that simple. I didn't call you a liar. I said it wasn't a joke, and indeed it wasn't, too many loaded terms for it to be a joke. It's right there, below, see for yourself. Are you now going to say I've called you a liar again by not agreeing that it's that simple? That's the second time. I didn't accuse you of anything either, all the accusations were yours. As a self-proclaimed profound lover of the English language you sure are careless with it. And why do you keep raising the ante? Aren't you going to unsubscribe? Or was that just a threat? Strange kind of threat, if so. Go on, all you have to do is hit the button. Come to think of it, you might not even need your password, I forget, never having done it myself. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/18/2010 9:22 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: OK, If you are going to accuse me in this fashion It was a straightforward comment, and I didn't expect you to like it, but I don't see how you can call it an accusation. The terms of accusation were all yours. please remove me from this mailing list! I'm afraid you have to do that yourself. The unsubscribe details are in the headers of every message you receive from the list. You'll need your password, which you were sent when you were subscribed. If you didn't see it or lost it you can have it emailed to you. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Jim On 6/17/2010 5:44 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim Chalker wrote: It was a joke! No it wasn't. The tone was light but plaintive, and the words suspect and coordinated effort are terms of accusation, not terms that should be thrown about without a care in a public forum. It seems you haven't had any offlist emails, so all you're complaining about is a mere six emails a day over four days, seven of them from you. Hardly overwhelming. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/17/2010 11:07 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Jim I see I am still getting new e-mails. I am beginning to suspect this is a coordinated effort to overwhelm me. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, especially as the two latest messages in the discussion are both from you. As the list owner, I know of no emails sent to you other than those sent legitimately onlist, all of which can be checked at the list archives, here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ My initial message introducing you to the list said Please respond onlist, not direct to Jim (he's a list member now). If you are receiving offlist messages that you would rather not be receiving, please let me know (off-list) and I will see what can be done to put a stop to it. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 6/16/2010 6:11 PM, Chris Burck wrote: snip It was a
Re: [Biofuel] To answer your questions
with adjacent plots, and propose the spot where their plots come together be used for pv on a CO OP basis. another possibility is to use whatever site(s) you choose for biogas digesters and/or biodiesel production. same applies to wind and hydro turbines, and even in areas with poor wind resources, there's usually at least a couple spots with higher wind activity.i wouldn't have thought of seeking out alternative energy companies as donors, since they would view it as undermining their market, but i guess there's nothing to lose. but you also have your local big box stores, produce stands, manufacturers, tool and die/machine shops, etc. anyway, keep us posted on how things take shape, and do't hesitate to ask if you need help with any particulars. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100618/21de8a4d/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
