Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
, they can plan for the future, they can experience more joy and live a much fuller life than a bull calf. I don't know about that. You should see Harry gamboling in the pasture sometime, or calling his mother when he wants a drink. I hope what I have said above will answer the points you have raised here. You are attributing views to me here which I do not in fact hold. Yes, thank you, and yes, i did indulge in hyperbole. Of course a healthy human life is more important than the life of a cockroach. There is no inconsistency here. The more sentient the creature the more rights accruing to it. But where beings have the same degree of sentiency they should be treated equally. The decision of whose life is more valuable should not be based on membership of a particular species. So a severely brain damaged person incapable of any feeling or awareness would not have the same right to life as a higher animal such as a healthy chimpanzee. True. I just don't think we are the optimal judges of that. Not trying to be a PITA, it's just that the issue is far more complex than what you present. That is certainly an understatement. These are extremely complex issues and I would not attempt to address them all in one e-mail. If you are interested I can recommend two very interesting books on this topic, both by Professor Peter Singer, the first being ANIMAL LIBERATION and the second is PRACTICAL ETHICS. Both are very readable and fairly easily understood by the layman or woman? Ok, another couple of books to add to the to be reading list. I'll have to wait for a trip to Europe or USA to find them, but will look for them then, unless they are available online. andres (who, having been vegetarian, has also felt holier than thou) That last comment I don't feel is helpful in fostering a healthy debating climate. Attack the arguments I make but leave the personal stuff out please. It was not my intention to preach or to be holier than thou. Please quote anything that I have said that can be construed as such. 'also' being the operative term i assume? I have felt holier than thou, as have most of my vegan friends. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that you, as a vegetarian, shared that feeling. Most people that don't kill, feel superior to those that do, much in the same way that people who don't use drugs feel superior to those who do. Buddhist thought tends to reinforce that view. I don't enjoy killing, not ever (i don't kill spiders or rats or roaches, spiders are my friends on the farm, and the cats get the rats), but i do consider it necessary. Have you realized how fast rabbits breed? I don't have thousands of acres or millions of $$$ at my disposal to just keep expanding the herds on the farm indefinitely. And ley farming does not work without farm animals. I have come to believe it is the only sustainable way to farm on a large scale-unless you use humanure. For humanure, you need to have enough conscious and hardworking people in one place to do it. Humans being what we are at present day, it's not very likely. Remember that we probably have much more in common than separates us. Agreed. I presume you are against factory farming and the intensive harvesting of animals. If this were realised I would consider that it would do away with 90% of the unnecessary suffering that animals have to endure. Absolutely. That's why i grow my own, and have loving relationships with them, up until the moment i kill and eat them. Here's hoping for a friendly, civilised debate in which we may all learn something. Thanks again Dermot, i hope for that as well. I'm not sure if it can be resolved though, it's almost a religious difference, but at the very least we can respect each others' points of view. Regards Dermot Donnelly best, andres yver ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hello Keith, Dermot, On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 06:11 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Dermot snip for animal manure. I think they are doing that very successfully in Shanghai at the moment. They were doing it very successfully in Shanghai a hundred years ago, not so sure about now. The Chinese still composted absolutely everything possible then. We've discussed humanure composting here too, quite a number of us do that, successfully enough. But, sorry, even by traditional Chinese standards of how much land it takes to feed a human, or how little rather, human manure is not enough to put back what a human takes out. It helps, but you just don't get the biological knock-on effect you get with grazers like cows (see earlier message about ley farming), or even pigs, they're much better at it than we are. I tried every which way to get that to figure out, but it doesn't figure out. I've used humanure from a very nice composting toilet designed at McGill university and improved in Australia and then again by us in Chile. I've put a lot of thought and experimentation (including leaf tissue, sap, and soil analysis) into whether or not you can farm sustainably without animals, using only humanure. The only way you could do it, as i see it, is to replace your animals with fungi. They could break down the cellulose and lignin in grain straws and help to provide the necessary return of nutrients to the soil. It would be a LOT of work on a farm scale. I think a small family might get by on it otherwise. But then fungi are mostly animals, aren't they? Worms make it all a lot easier, but then they are animals too, and they don't live very long, so it could be argued that you are factory farming in 'inhumane' conditions by housing them in your worm bin? Best wishes Keith snip andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hello Keith, On Friday, September 30, 2005, at 04:48 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Heh! I Have only met one person that has ever defended chickens. :-) You just met another one. As in, not to be killed chickens. Most people have absolutely no qualms about killing chicken. I used to dislike them because they were scary to me. Got a few talons in the neck and forearms as a boy whilst stealing eggs. Not enough distance between their eyes for a decent brain. I don't agree with that at all. I've yet to meet a dumb chicken, and I've had to do with some bright ones, including currently. see below. There's a young cock here who understands quite a few English words, for instance. There's no doubt about it, it's quite obvious. He has a considerable vocabulary, some of it I can understand, or at least get the gist of it. He makes some very wry comments! Very sharp. His old man is more than sharp, he's *wise*. Dignified with it, and totally without fear. I have great respect for him. Cocks have one of the higher testicle to body mass ratios. Remember Zorba? I believe that most animals can 'see' our mental images. It's very easy to get animals to do what you want them to if you construct a mental image of them doing it. For example, sometimes i'd like a cow to walk through a particular gap in some trees, but not another, more accessible path. Just concentrate on the image of her walking through the one i want. It's a combination of an image from her point of view, and an image of me watching her walk. It's worked with dogs, cats, cattle, pigs, and horses, as well as some small owls that hang out around the farm. I wanted them change their nest to a particular place, so they wouldn't be hurt when we disced a field (they're burrowing owls). Maybe this sounds very woo-woo as Bob would say. I say, just try it sometime, it works. Keep your brain very still, and just construct the image. Fierce birds. Yes, but not only fierce. Tough, uncompromising society they live in. Not a rat race, a chicken run? :-) Scaly feet. Propensity to crow at 4am. Sudden movements. They're *fast*! Instant reactions. I've watched them carefully with this, as far as I can tell the response comes at the same instant as the stimulus. Mirror mind, Zen chickens, LOL! Yes. rather like some of the things David Bohm or Karl Pribram were working on, implicate order, holonomic brain. Quantum chickens! It's hard to find a dumb animal, IMO, unless it's someone's pet. Look at this crow in this BBC video clip: http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/38185000/rm/ _38185047_crow_08aug_vi.ram Oh no, wasn't trying to suggest they were dumb, just that they scared me as a child because of the reduced distance between their eyes led me to fear the sort of brain they would have. Crows are known to be smarter than housecats, as are octopi! At least by our measures of intelligence. Now sheep and turkeys, on the other hand... Dinosaur remnants. Yes. Clever trick, to grow feathers and a self-heating blood supply. Well, i've always thought dinosaurs were warm blooded, all along. And probably feathered as well. At least some of them. Or perhaps a hybrid system, like modern tunafish, with it's warm blooded muscles for speed of attack. I wonder if humans have some sort of genetic memory of being preyed upon by sharp beaked scaly legged creatures when we were but little critters that scurried in the shadows. :-) Been reading Bruce Chatwin? No. Will have to look him up. One thing we've learned, the more we read, is that we've yet to formulate an original thought :-) Quite humbling. wind at your back, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hi Dermot, On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote: snip It may be the case that some people cannot tolerate a vegetarian diet. I don't know. My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we should because it is unethical to kill sentient creatures for no good reason. ANIMALS HAVE RIGHTS. Just because they are dumb doesn't mean we can deprive them of a happy existance because they happen to taste nice. I have trouble with this whole ethics thing. The Buddha said (paraphrasing here) that all creatures love life, all creatures fear death, knowing this, how can you cause harm. The trouble is, i think that plants are sentient creatures as well. They are on a different time-scale, mode, or wavelength if you will, but they definitely feel. I think most gardeners have gotten a glimpse of that, perhaps when uprooting a carrot, chopping down a tree that shades your tomatoes, or clipping baby greens. Once you realized this, would you stop eating vegetables? So where do you draw the line? Do you kill roaches? Rats? Ants? Spiders? What about poisonous ones? How can one say a rat (definitely sentient and lots smarter than most farm animals) has less of a right to live than, say, a rabbit or a chicken? How about a 15 year old cherry tree? Or a 50 year old Douglas Fir? All creatures eat other creatures, in one way or another. Think of the countless billions teeming in your compost pile. What about their rights? You are now able to choose to be a vegetarian. What would you do if you were hungry, or your children were, and all you could find to eat was an animal? Is hunger what you would consider a good reason? Or would you let your kids starve because animals have rights? Or if not, why do your kids have more rights than a bull calf? Not trying to be a PITA, it's just that the issue is far more complex than what you present. andres (who, having been vegetarian, has also felt holier than thou) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hi Mike, On Friday, September 30, 2005, at 02:53 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: Chickens. I can kill chickens. Bring 'em on. Heh! I Have only met one person that has ever defended chickens. Most people have absolutely no qualms about killing chicken. I used to dislike them because they were scary to me. Got a few talons in the neck and forearms as a boy whilst stealing eggs. Not enough distance between their eyes for a decent brain. Fierce birds. Scaly feet. Propensity to crow at 4am. Sudden movements. Dinosaur remnants. I wonder if humans have some sort of genetic memory of being preyed upon by sharp beaked scaly legged creatures when we were but little critters that scurried in the shadows. And no, there is no intention in this post to troll for a debate on evolution vs intelligent design... andres who finds chickens to be very useful on the farm though. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US army plans to bulk-buy anthrax
On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 09:43 PM, Appal Energy wrote: snip Well, with a little bit 'a luck and if you work at it a bit, you just might get your county commissioners, town council and mayor to lobby the military to let your area and neighbors to be ground zero for testing such delivery systems and vaccines. Think how large of a favor you and yours would be doing for the rest of humanity. Todd Swearingen LOL! First post i read this morning, nice to start the day with a smile. Todd, gotta tell ya, you have found your real vocation on this list. I'm glad i haven't yet been the target of your scathing humor delivery system. No vaccine available, no rock to crawl under, nowhere to hide! Thanks for all the great posts over the years. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hello Doug, On 9/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andres, it might be a good idea to inspect the livers of the rabbits youslaughter.Comfrey is supposed to contain pyrolizidine (spelling?) alkaloids which are said to be toxic to human livers. I don't know whether thealkaloids are broken down or whether it would be possible to ingest themfrom animals fed on comfrey.I've read that strains of comfrey vary widely in their content of the alkaloids. Supposedly the Bocking clones contain much less thanordinary seedlings.Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, Canada Hmmm. The comfrey is just now staring to flower, no color yet, but in a few days we should hopefully be able to identify the strain, based on Newman Turner's descriptions. So far, none of the seeds from last year have germinated, but all root fragments have turned into big plants. If no good for direct feeding, i'm sure the compost pile will benefit, the quantities are overwhelming... thanks for the warning! Andres, loath to kill bunnies, so not a taste yet... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hi Kim, A Tibetan Rinpoche visiting Synergia Ranch in Santa Fe once, was told of a gopher infestation in the fruit orchard, and asked something about the morals of killing, since noisemakers had not worked. His reply: Rodent infestations must be dealt with. It was pretty clear he had no qualms about exterminating them. He also ate meat for the same reasons as the Dalai Lama. Yes, rabbits are really hard. So far, i've been copping out by giving them away. Just how, exactly, do you kill your steers? Thanks, Andres On 9/27/05, Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings,I too kill my own animals, we put their names on the package of meat andremember them when we eat them, giving thanks for their lifeenergies.Even the Dali Lama is only vegetarian half the time, as the stress of traveling weakens him too much on a strict vegetarian diet.Manyof us get sick not eating meat.Now, I am not saying that I need a 16ounce steak for dinner every night, and I do not eat factory farmed meat, cause that will make me sick, too.For some of us, we see the spiritualconnection between the animal and ourselves, when we eat it, and treat thewhole thing in a spiritual manner.I talk to my animals and thank them for their life energies before I kill them.I wish them a longer and happier life in their next incarnation, andthey stay very calm, stand still and let me kill them.Chickens are the easiest animal to kill, rabbits the hardest, for me. Bright Blessings,KimAt 03:15 PM 9/27/2005, you wrote:On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 03:32 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: I can't kill anything anymore, except chickens. I hate chickens.But I live live in the 'burbs so there are no chickens anyhow.My dad tells stories of his chilhood in Arkansas and pig killing, which they did from November - January. I'm pretty much a vegetarian anyhow these days. I feel that if i'm to eat meat, i should kill the animal myself. Keepseverything in perspective. I bet that if everyone had to personallykill up close and personal to eat, there would be a lot more vegetarians (which i have been, on and off).andres___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hello Tom, Hi Keith and all, You mentioned in a previous thread that you liked castor beans as an oil seed crop. You're in Uruguay, right? In Chile, castor bean is a serious weed. It grows extremely fast, reaching over two meters height and diameter within 8 months. If you have moisture, as near an irrigation canal, you can collect many hundreds of seeds, even perhaps a thousand or more from each plant. It thrives on no management or additional fertilization. Roadsides are a good place to find them. I considered them, together with jojoba, as an oil seed crop, before selling out and moving to Argentina. I crushed one, yes one, plant's worth in a primitive homemade press and got about a liter of oil. i haven't gone to purdue's newcrop site to see what average yields are. The area i was in was a mediterranean climate, 250mm annual rainfall, min temps down near the canal were around -2 or 3 C in the dead of winter. Summers got up to around 35C max. Bear in mind it was summer dry, winter wet. I think Uruguay, as is Argentina, tends to be more continental, ie summer wet and winter dry. I composted the seedcake and found you need to include lots of woody feedstock as well as cow manure (what was at hand) to avoid rancidity. In other words, don't try to compost it as a major component of your compost. If you heat your seeds first by spreading in the sun on top of shade cloth, you get higher yields. Sorry about the unscientific comments, your mileage may vary, etc. Weeds are an opportunity waiting to happen, they have lots of unexplored potential, on many levels. Right now, we have an area that is overrun with comfrey, which is here considered a noxious weed. Following Newman Turner's lead (see JTF small farms library for his and other invaluable books on farming the easy way), we have wilted it and are feeding it to rabbits. They LOVE it!!! Good luck with your future farm. Working for yourself can't be beat. Especially if what you are doing is not only pleasurable but gets other, local, people interested and heading down the path to sustainability. I've found that, here in South America -and probably everywhere, the best arguments for sustainability in general, and ley farming in particular, are economic ones. It's just way cheaper to farm this way. Farmers of other stripes sit up and notice when you get successfully through a season without having used any inputs labelled Monsanto or Bayer or BASF... On a personal note, our winter rye (Korn to you in europe) is just starting to head, is close to 160cm tall, and has NO rust (puccinia) of any kind, nor any insect infestation. We're setting up an electric fence around those fields today, and tomorrow our neighbors horses and mules will be grazing it down prior to discing and seeding a summer ley. I can't stress overmuch how easy ley farming really is. Things just fall into place, and everything you do benefits something (or perhaps a few things, if you're paying attention) else, making the next steps even easier... What was not easy was killing Dick and George last week. Anybody have any tips for killing your animals in a way that sends them off to better pastures without fear? Dick got a 9mm round behind the ear, George a knife into the heart. Both ways were to me horrible. The uni kids didn't see that as we did it a couple of days before they got here. There has to be a better way. Succinyl choline was mentioned i think on this list? It's way too high tech, though. How about an injection of air into an artery like they do (used to do?) at the mortuary- or is that an urban legend? andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] freiburg solar house
Hello, Still playing catch-up with the archives, but just noticed some talk late august about high pressure hydrogen storage. It was poo-poo'ed as unrealistic due to the enormous pressures (200 bar) involved, making it unsaleable due to liability issues. I'm currently driving, as are a few hundred thousand other people in argentina, and perhaps a few millions in Pakistan, a car that is fueled by CNG, stored in a couple of steel tanks in the trunk/boot at 200 bar. These are installed by neighborhood mechanics, and there is a distribution network of CNG pumps at local gas stations. If it is safe enough for the average Jose here, it's safe enough for anywhere. Cost for the whole kit, between 300-600 dollars, depending on storage volume. Years ago, the Freiburg Solar House, a multi-family dwelling in Southern Germany, got me all fired up on renewables. It is a showcase project that combined various renewable technologies in one house. One of it's components is photovoltaic splitting of water to form hydrogen which was stored in a tank in the basement. No inefficient compressors or high pressure water pumps involved. This fuel is used to 'light' (in quotes because they are actually catalytic) the burners on the gas ranges and further heat domestic hot water which has been pre-heated by solar thermal. It has some really elegant solutions, like transparent insulation on the solar hot water panels, which are parabolic troughs. All this to say that there is a place for all sorts of tech, even hydrogen, much maligned on this list, in our renewable energy mix. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 03:32 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: I can't kill anything anymore, except chickens. I hate chickens. But I live live in the 'burbs so there are no chickens anyhow. My dad tells stories of his chilhood in Arkansas and pig killing, which they did from November - January. I'm pretty much a vegetarian anyhow these days. I feel that if i'm to eat meat, i should kill the animal myself. Keeps everything in perspective. I bet that if everyone had to personally kill up close and personal to eat, there would be a lot more vegetarians (which i have been, on and off). andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hi Zeke, On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 03:13 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote: Why eat animals then? Eating meat is a rather inefficient method of converting sunlight into food anyway. In a sustainble farm they are necessary for fertilizer, and to convert low grade food stocks not edible by humans into edible products, as well as to boost protein input if you can't grow the protein rich vegetables, but how about chickens for eggs, or goats or sheep for milk? It is interesting that we (americans at least) eat so much meat, much of it produced in factory farms in truly horrible conditions, yet we blanch at the idea of chopping the head off a chicken ourselves. Well, Dick and George had happy lives, all spent rooting up an old bermudagrass and clover pasture, lolling in the shade of a stand of poplar, and wallowing in their pond. They also tasted great, and fed 30 people. The main reason we keep animals is to fertilize the soil. Secondary are the reasons you mention, third, the pleasure of their company. I had a deeper relationship with them than i do with my chickens, so that's why it was hard. Killing chickens is easy: there's an old stump that has a noose connected to a foot pedal at the base. I take the chicken by the legs, slip the noose over his head, stretch him across the stump, step on the footpedal to tense and chop his head off with a hatchet. The dogs think it's great fun and snap up the head within a half second. No apparent suffering. Some flopping around from the body, helps to empty him of blood. I bet little dinosaurs were a lot like chicken. Goats are a PITA, and sheep are great. Still, same issues killing them than with killing the pigs... andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hi Tom, On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 02:53 PM, Tom Irwin wrote: Hi Andres, Castor beans grow wild here in Uruguay as well. I have some deep seated childhood memories of castor oil as an emetic. Just the smell makes me gag. I'll use it with a mask if I can find no other source but it is kind of a last resort material for me. The yields are good though and it's essentially free for the taking. I was looking at jojoba as a natural fence material but I think I'm a bit too wet here. I suspect I'd have lots of fungus problems than in drier climates. I may use raspberry or blackberries instead. The weather is is rather mild. We actually had a light frost day this winter. The summer's reach about 38 C. but you can expect rain in a day or so to bring those temps back down to 28. It's mostly flat grassland here with 38-78 cm of rainfall. This year we'll probably exceed the upper end. I'm hoping global warming will keep it there but I'm not sure. Lot's of people think it could shift to the dry end. I just haven't seen much evidence in that direction. I keep telling everyone who will listen that oil prices are going to change the nature of agriculture back to small organic farms. Now I'm going to show them. I'm a bit squimish in killing animals, too. I was raised as a city boy. I was giving thought to lethal injection with potassium chloride solution. Pigs and humans have lots of similarities. It's worth a question to the local vet. Tom Irwin Aceite de ricino. Same thing happened to me whilst pressing the seeds. Got over it though, pretty quick, when i realized the yield potential. Yes, Jojoba likes it dry and requires excellent drainage, otherwise it can be very susceptible to phytophtora spp. it is, however, an excellent oil crop. 50% oil by weight. Current yields in Chile are 3-4 tons seed per hectare from improved varieties. Potential exists from further selection to increase yields to around 5-6 tons in the next few years. that's about triple what most of the rest of the world is getting. We plant from stem cuttings of the best cultivars. In the American Southwest, they mostly plant from seed, which is very heterogenous and also about 50% males (no seeds), so yields are very low per hectare. Raspberries are a great fence and also a fantastic cash crop. Can't beat a fresh glass of raspberry juice from berries you've just picked. I think Uruguay will tend to dry up a bit and our area to get a bit wetter. Could be wrong though. Don't have a Hitachi supercomputer like in Tokyo to model weather. This year has been exceptional. Check your trends over the last 15 years or so. Northern Argentina has been in a drought for quite a while, and the humid pampa, where all that soy comes from has had some pretty dry, scary weather the last few years. Good thing most big farmers are going no till. Bad thing is they tend to use RoundUp tm to kill the cover crop, though that has started to drop in favor of rollers that crimp the crop to kill it and leave a nice surface mulch. How does potassium chloride kill? I've heard that a couple of tablespoons of salt NaCL will kill you. Have you bought your land yet? Uruguay is just about ideal for ley farming. I take it you're in Montevideo. Don't know much about the internal politics, but heard that the new president is a bit of a lefty as is Argentina's Kirchner, Chile's Lagos, Brazil's Lula, and Venezuela's Chavez. Lots more spending on education, health and the poor, more taxation of corporations. All these countries are doing way better than they have in a long time. Argentina is slowly but surely recovering from (among other ills) the IMF's 'restructuring' policy induced collapse a few years back. All the best, expat andres who has fond memories of life in an embassy school for a couple of years as a kid back in the middle 60's :-) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] freiburg solar house
Hello Hakan, On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 04:03 PM, Hakan Falk wrote: Andres, It is a big difference between CNG and Hydrogen, at least in size. Hydrogen is an escape artist, who can escape almost anything. LOL True. 200 bar of hydrogen is not the same as 200 bar of CNG. AFAIK, the same exact equipment (hoses, valves, o-rings, tanks) is used though at california's hydrogen gas station than that used for CNG. Pure Hydrogen is much smaller and have higher escape velocity and cannot be compared with CNG. Hydrogen also have lesser energy content, so you must store more of it to have comparable vehicle ranges, or go much to much higher pressures than a couple of hundreds bar. I was not suggesting vehicle use in any way, just commenting on the post that suggested that 200 bar was unsaleable because of liability issues. The post back in August was about a windmill in a Scottish isle that stored excess power in the form of hydrogen. Someone replied to not expect to be able to buy a hydrogen storage unit for the home because of the 200 bar pressures. CNG burns, hydrogen explodes. This is something that are normally demonstrated in the basic chemistry classes. Do you remember the experiments when you lighted up a gas, produced with heat, who sounded like small firework when it burned. That was the hydrogen experiments! Heh! I remember! CNG will also explode, BTW. A guy in Chile had a makeshift, illegal, and unregulated CNG setup in his car which happened to explode in his face at the gas station. They still can't find most of him. Publicity put a big dent in CNG automotive use in Chile. I am not the best on this issue, but we have a few quite knowable people on the list, who can expand in detail on what I am saying. If it was so easy, as you say, why it is such an expensive development hunt, to try to find suitable and economical storage solutions? I think most people in the hydrogen energy debaters are focussed on automotive use. Not a good application for hydrogen, at least at the current (and probably for the forseeable future) level of tech. Huge distribution problems, among other ills, like, as you mention, storage density. I personally like electric vehicles. Biodiesel is not bad either, but the internal combustion engine is just not that efficient. The Freiburg solar house though, had a really nice use of hydrogen energy. Storage density is not such a big issue in homes. Distribution is also irrelevant, since you are producing it within the storage tank itself from surplus electricity from your PV/windmills/solar thermal etc. Hakan andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hello Robert, On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 05:28 PM, robert luis rabello wrote: Andres Yver wrote: I feel that if i'm to eat meat, i should kill the animal myself. Keeps everything in perspective. I do this with fish. Generally I don't eat meat, but once a year I go to the river with my boys. We pull salmon out of the water, I thank God for protecting each one of those creatures for my benefit, then I kill them as quickly as possible. A few weeks ago, we saw that someone had caught several good sized sockeye, then simply left them to rot in the water. It made me sick! Yes, i also say a prayer to my deity of choice and, taking a cue from the aboriginal population of north america, have a bit of communion with the animal before killing it. They asked it's permission, i tend to thank him for giving me his life. Somehow thanking it is, to me, the same as thanking our common maker, call it God, Nature, whathave you. We both (idealized? native americans and i) use(d) every single bit of it. No waste. Perhaps the sockeye died after spawning? They do that. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] war with venezuela?
On 9/21/05, Richard Littrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Andres,I am just guessing on the basis of having lived here a long time (theUS) and watched how the government works in South America.I see twopossibilities not necessarily mutually exclusive.The build up maybe just so much saber rattling, an attempt o scare Chavez into backing downon some of what the administration perceives as anti American activity.A darker possibility is the kind of action that the Johnsonadministration took in the 1960's in the Dominican Republic.When an insurrection took place against our friend/lackey Trojillio (sp?)American troops were moved in to protect American lives with theresult that the coup puppet was saved.I would envision a CIA sponsored coup attempt which would be used as an excuse to go in and againprotect Americanswith the fall of the Chavez government anunfortunate consequence.Ordinarily I would not expect this to happen but with Oil in play anything goes with this administration. Rick Andres Yver wrote:Egads!Just got back from a dinner party with the local elite, and everyone was discussing an imminent US attack on Venezuela. As though it werefact. A done deal. Asking me (half yank) to explain what on earth isgoing on in the good old us of a.Much chatter about 'surgical' strikes. Oil. Our host's grandparents (german expats, one the son of a Reich consul in Argentina) were there,recalling the late 30's when they were teenagers. Abyssinian'excursions', speeches at Nuremberg. Neville Chamberlain. Scary. And absurd, if true. Could Rove actually believe this will somehow help theadministration's popularity? Or maybe approval ratings no longermatter. Not if the American public can no longer do anything about anything. Gotta get 'it' before China does? Chavez a loose cannon?Phone calls to friends in Caracas, lots of busy lines, hard to getthrough, people are heading out of town, or don't want to come back from their weekend trips. Generalized paranoia.Is this possible? Has anyone heard of anything? Gold just hit a 16 yearhigh today, and not just in debased dollar terms...tell me it ain't so! andres___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture
Hello Gustl, On Wednesday, September 21, 2005, at 09:31 AM, Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Andres, I'm afraid everything I do is very different from what you are proposing so I can't be much help. I would get in touch, if possible, with the local folks and the ag extension office or uni which serves your area. Pasture farming is area specific given weather conditions, soil type, length of season and what livestock you are pasturing. Even where I am at the requirements are different if you drive 15 minutes south. I have to plant for heavy clay but my neighbors a few miles south have to plant for sandy soil. This is not to mention that my neighbors think I am crazy because I use no pesticides, herbicides or chemical fertilizers. Do a google or hotbot search for pasture planting and refine your search to suit your conditions. Then find a neighbor who is successful who uses farming methods which mirror your methods and talk to them. Follow that up with whatever free government or university information you can find and then decide which best suits your conditions and methods of farming. I'm sorry I can't be more help than that. I don't have a clue about farming in the desert. Good luck friend. Happy Happy, Gustl Thanks for the reply! There's no-one around here doing ley farming, and yes, my neighbors also think i'm crazy for not spraying or fertilizing with chemicals... But as you, Kim, Robert and others have mentioned, once they see your lovely green results, they start getting interested and spending more time leaning on the fence posts to see what's going on. Here, chemicals and fuel are the biggest cost components of farming which is only barely profitable as things stand. Lots of abandoned farms. My neighbor sprays his pear orchard 10-12 times a year! I tell him he's working for Dow and Monsanto. He says he doesn't have a crop if no spray. Last week i disced, rolled and sowed a hectare of his row middles with clover and italian annual ryegrass. Asked him to please not spray those trees all year, and that i would pay him for the pears it produced at the same price he got for a hectare of the rest of the orchard, regardless of yield. This fall i'll have to figure out what to do with 70 tons of pears (gotta get a still built ;-), but he'll get exposure to organics and i'll have a buffer zone, pasture for some sheep and maybe can feed the spent mash to pigs. Win win, i hope. take care, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture
Hello, On Wednesday, September 21, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Keith Addison wrote: snip I'd bet my boots there aren't any Gustl. Andres is doing ley farming, and the unis and ag extensions won't ever heard of it, and shame on them for that. Keith gets to keep his boots. He'll probably need them, rubber ones, IIRC, thunderstorms this time of year? Uni will be hearing about it though, from us. Busload of students should be out next week to poke around the compost pile and eat George and Dick, who've been fattening up on vetch and rye and dirt all winter. I wish we'd been at it longer here though, to have more to show. The place is still an awful mess, and the huge 80 year old mud oven collapsed last week after a snowstorm. Now we get to build another, only this one will have lime and pumice plaster... have fun! andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] First bach of Biodiesel
Ok, let´s see, most latin tongues can be parsed by someone who knows at least one of them: Dear Joe, temperature is a variable to be taken into account. Reaction speed varies with temperature. In other words, a higher temperature means a shorter reaction time. Notwithstanding, said processor at atmospheric pressure shouldn´t exceed 60 degrees centigrade, because methanol´s boiling point is close to 63 degrees centigrade. Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em consideração uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num reactor à pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC pois a temperatura de ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC. sorry about the top post, i´m at an internet cafe and gmail doesn´t allow me to copy and paste within the form fields. ahhhrrrgghhh... beta level software at best andres On 9/21/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Zeke, your're wright, I'm Portuguese and so is João that's why my answerwas in Portuguese. In the future I will try to use the English. Please feel free Filipe, if English is no strain for you that's nice,otherwise you and João and anyone else can write whatever languageyou like as long as it's in Roman characters that everyone's computer can read. Google does English-Portuguese translations, so the rest ofus will manage somehow.http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=enLanguage Tools Best wishesKeith AddisonJourney to ForeverKYOTO Pref., Japanhttp://journeytoforever.org/Biofuel list ownerCitando Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Haha.I've determined that I need to learn french and spanish at the least, to fully take advantage of international discussion forums. Drawback of being an american where we're raised to expect everyone to speak english Although if I'm not mistaken, Filipe's response was Portugese, right? On 9/20/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey no fair I can't read this reply? I wanted to hear it too. Brian Rodgers On 9/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Caro João, a temperatura é uma variável que deve ser levada em consideração uma vez que a cinética da reacção varia com a temperatura, ou seja, maior temperatura significa menor tempo de reacção. No entanto, num reactor à pressão atmosférica não se deverá ultrapassar os 60ºC poisa temperatura de ebulição do metanol é cerca de 63ºC. Boa sorte e disponha sempre Filipe Paulette Chemical Engineer Citando joão martins [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Hi there,I plan to start doing the first bach of biodiesel, and I will use Methanol.I'd like to know if we need always to heat everything to 50ºC, and way???Best Regards João Martins www.martinsportscar.com___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] war with venezuela?
Egads! Just got back from a dinner party with the local elite, and everyone was discussing an imminent US attack on Venezuela. As though it were fact. A done deal. Asking me (half yank) to explain what on earth is going on in the good old us of a. Much chatter about 'surgical' strikes. Oil. Our host's grandparents (german expats, one the son of a Reich consul in Argentina) were there, recalling the late 30's when they were teenagers. Abyssinian 'excursions', speeches at Nuremberg. Neville Chamberlain. Scary. And absurd, if true. Could Rove actually believe this will somehow help the administration's popularity? Or maybe approval ratings no longer matter. Not if the American public can no longer do anything about anything. Gotta get 'it' before China does? Chavez a loose cannon? Phone calls to friends in Caracas, lots of busy lines, hard to get through, people are heading out of town, or don't want to come back from their weekend trips. Generalized paranoia. Is this possible? Has anyone heard of anything? Gold just hit a 16 year high today, and not just in debased dollar terms... tell me it ain't so! andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] seeding a forage pasture
Hi, tried posting the following to Rodale's NewFarm forums, and have gotten no answer so far. Any farmers on this list? Gustl? Keith? I'm leaving this particular field unseeded until i can figure out a smart way to do it: Hello, It's spring here in the southern hemisphere, and we're looking at seeding a recently harvested potato field with a forage mixture. We don't have access to a drill yet, so the plan is to broadcast a nurse crop of oats, then lightly disc to cover, then broadcast alfalfa plus a bunch of other small seeded forbs, grasses, and legumes. We'll need to furrow the field for irrigation (can't count on enough-properly timed-rain here in the desert, although we do get about 200-250mm spread out over the season-conditions are much like southern colorado, northern new mexico), so the question is: do we furrow before broadcasting the alfalfa+, and if so, how do we cover and pack the seed/bed after furrowing? Or, if we furrow after seeding the alfalfa+, won't the seeds be buried too deep? Soil is a light sandy loam that crusts after rainfall, so am wary of replacing furrows with an Aussie/Kiwi travelling sprinkler, at least at this initial stage of ley seeding. The other fields are already bermudagrass, vetch, and clover, so no worries there, we're just broadcasting everything, discing to chop up the bermudagrass sod, then using a sprinkler. Has anyone on the list seen or faced similar conditions, and if so, what worked for you? thanks, Andres Yver ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Lavado
On Sunday, September 18, 2005, at 03:01 PM, CLON S.A wrote: - Original Message - From: Daniel To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 3:00 AM Subject: Lavado El lavado del biodiesel se debe de hacer con agua destilada o con agua del grifo (potable) la cual contiene cloro? Se puede medir el pH final del biodiesel con fenolftaleina? Como se hace? Gracias Daniel, Si, puedes usar agua de la red potable, que contiene cloro. Mas importante es el ph del agua, te sale todo mas facil si el ph del agua es neutro. Puedes agregar un acido como el vinagre o una base como la lejia para balancear, si tu agua varia mucho del neutro. Tengo entendido que la fenolftaleina se puede usar para medir el ph del resultado final, usando el agua de lavado. Al final del proceso, mides el ph del agua del ultimo lavado. El agua te indica lo que tenias en el aceite, ya que los acidos o bases se retienen en el agua mas facilmente que en el biodiesel. Esto implica que mientras mas lavas, mas neutro tu biodiesel. Puedes leer sobre tirtraje (determinacion de ph) en castellano aqui: http://www.journeytoforever.org/es/ biodiesel_fabricar2.html#bettertitrate saludos, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iso-propanol
Hello there ! Is there anyone who has experience in isopropyl alcohol or its esters as fuel components ? Jan Warnqvist Here's a pdf out of Iowa State University: www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Technical%20Papers/Wang%20Intro.pdf The production of isopropyl esters and their effects on a diesel engine The scope of this research was to improve the cold weather properties of neat biodiesel by investigating the manufacture of isopropyl esters from soybean oil and yellow grease. Isopropyl esters have a lower crystallization temperature compared to methyl esters from the same source material. www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Technical%20Papers/ Wang%20Equip%20Analysis%20Results.pdf Optimizing the Transesterification Process for Isopropyl Esters Producing isopropyl esters requires the use of isopropyl alcohol as opposed to methyl esters, which utilize methanol, or ethyl esters, which use ethanol. Commonly, most biodiesel consists of methyl esters and methanol is used since it is cheap and widely available. Methanol is priced between $.04-.24/lb [14] and is the fourth largest organic chemical in the U.S. in terms of volume. Isopropanol, on the other hand, is priced between $.20 - .34/lb [14], which makes it more expensive to make isopropyl esters. However, the yield for isopropyl esters is about 10% more than methyl esters because of the heavier molecular weight. So, this partially compensates for the increased cost. hth, andres yver ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Backyard tools - log splitter
Here is a drawing Keith has kindly put up for perusal: http://journeytoforever.org/bflpics/Logsplitter.jpg It's a spring assisted lever log splitter. It is entirely hand powered and relies upon the power achieved with the momentum of a heavy axe which resists sudden arrest. If the base is heavy and solid the log splits whilst the axe slows down and the lever and spring assisted energies involved render the log splitting surprisingly effortless. This thing is mostly built of junk and is experimental in so far as the spring attachments are adjustable to find the right positioning in relation to the other lengths and angles. A final version could use fixed positions once ones own optimums are found. The whole thing is proportioned to my physical height of 1.70m but I suppose I could stand on a platform if it had been bigger or I taller. The spring is from a Volvo 240 front. A heavier spring should be adjusted towards the frame to achieve a comfortable strike frequency of one complete stroke/hits per 2 seconds app. The axe at rest should suspend itself slightly above the log to be split and timing frequency can be altered by moving the spring towards the frame (slower) or further out (faster). The rear upright frame member must be quite strong. A good idea is to run a chain through the spring in case it breaks. The strike surface should be slightly concave so that the log falls apart itself and a good idea is to build a table round the block so the splits collect and don't just fall to the floor. Hi, What creates the force to lower the axe head? A sledge? The lever arm? Is this like a big nutcracker? thanks, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] japan earthquake
You ok? I've been through earthquakes that strong and it is a powerful experience. gambatte o kudasareta andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] VW TDI efficiency was Flying the Dirty Skies
snip A stock TDI has 90 hp and 155 ft-lbs torque. I'm sure it will have no problem over the mountains. My modified TDI has 110 hp and 225 ft-lbs torque. snip Hi Todd, What mods have you made to the TDI? Bigger intercooler? What else? Enquiring minds... thanks, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Trees and power companies
snip So, I have 6 months to be off grid. Any ideas of how to stream line the process and get me to where I need to be? Looks like your utility just lost a customer ; ) Good for you. The first step is to assess your energy needs. Over the next couple of weeks, keep track of how and where you spend energyjot it down on a pad as you go through your day, lightbulbs, water pumps, refrigeration, boom box, circular saw, computers, appliances. Take a long hard look at the list and see what you could do to reduce usage. Alternatives include lifestyle or habit changes and more efficient gear. You'll end up with a certain number of kilowatt-hours of electricity, plus whatever else you use, like propane, cng, diesel, etc. You've got a tractor, how much fuel does it use with a light load on the pto? If it's efficient, you might consider running a generator with it to top up batteries that are also being fed by a charge controller which receives the juice from your solar panels and/or windmill. From the batteries you go to an inverter for your AC loads. Often the charge controller and inverter are combined in one unit. Here's a website that has decent prices for alternative energy technology and appalling graphic design. http://www.partsonsale.com/index.htm Have fun! andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Trees and power companies
On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, at 07:44 PM, Kim Garth Travis wrote: snip So, I have 6 months to be off grid. Any ideas of how to stream line the process and get me to where I need to be? Bright Blessings, Kim On Tuesday, October 19, 2004, at 07:44 PM, Kim Garth Travis wrote: snip So, I have 6 months to be off grid. Any ideas of how to stream line the process and get me to where I need to be? Bright Blessings, Kim Kim, Here's info on Texas state and federal incentives for renewable energy: http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/ map2.cfm?CurrentPageID=1State=TX Put your tax dollars to work. good luck! andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Battery chargers
Greetings I can't find my tall black pointed hat and the wild garlic seems to be out of season, so I'm completely incapable of figuring out anything about electrickery for myself, please excuse. Those among us who're better versed in the black arts than I will no doubt find this childishly simple, but not me. Anyway, can you use a battery charger as a transformer? In other words, if I wanted to use a car windscreen wiper motor or windscreen washer pump or fuel pump or something, could I use a 12V battery charger to run it off the mains? Or would I have to use a battery and use the charger to keep the battery charged? Thanks Keith Hello Keith, It depends on the amperage your charger is able to provide. Most automotive-type battery chargers have a high setting around 10-12 amps, and a low setting around two amps. You'll need to check your motors to see what amperage thay draw at startup. If you add a battery to the circuit, then the high amp startup draw will be provided by the battery, and it will be charged at the low setting by the charger. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Old motor
snipIt's a 249 cc motor, 3 hp I think, watercooled (you just pour water in the top, it's not pressurised). It's supposed to run on fuel oil, but it says you can use petro-diesel too. You have to spray a bit of gasoline into it to get it started. We needed to get it running, we have use for it, but I expected to have to strip it down, perhaps search around for parts, or try to get another one for spares - probably other farmhouses have them stashed away in dark corners and forgotten. But it was a good sign that the water had been drained, and the lube oil and fuel - the old man was meticulous. snip Keith, you'll want to drain the oil and refill with new after the first hour or two. Even if it has been well maintained and stored, you'll most likely find little bits of this and that in the oil you drain. Yanmar has a well earned reputation for reliability. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Slogan
Biodiesel is for Life Nice! Short and sweet, works on many levels. It's the converse of that other really good one, fossil fuels are extinct. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] help me
snip Can you help me with a substitute for methanol, or with a way of makeing my own methanol? thank you very much. Hi Dan, Our host Keith has information on ethanol biodiesel: http://www.journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#ethylester the short of it, quite doable, if your alcohol is 99%, and you are careful. The authors repeatedly state that it's better to have doneand be comfortable withthe methyl ester process first. lots of additional resources on drying ethanol: http://www.journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#anhydrous Why not try to get approval for methanol? You will be using relatively small quantities as you learn. It might not be hard to get a permit for small amounts. good luck, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Problems with List
Well kids, It's been nice knowing you, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to unsubscribe. I'm really unhappy with the new format of this list. The so-called daily digest comes in about 10 e-mails a day, with topics in one attachment, and EVERY SINGLE OTHER MESSAGE in a separate attachment. So what is the point of getting a daily digest? Hi Capra, I think this might be a simple thing to fix. Most email list software allows one to set the size of the digest, ie. the number of messages, or characters, or file size. I think something could be re-configured in the new software. Perhaps our gracious technical host could take a look at it. i just had an excruciating few days of digest over at wastewatts, where the complete text of a very long FAQ was quoted on, and on, and on ad nauseum, in all the replies to the thread. I'm learning how to set filters in the email client software, so that the different lists go to different mailboxes, to be read in a clearer sequence. I find it easier to be in the biofuel, say, mode for a while, then switch to a different list. It's like alternate realities or universes. Once the filters are set up, you don't need digests. andres (holding breath) yver ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Putting O2 to the air input
How about what Ed Beggs calls an Italian tune-up? (Pardon me Ed.) What's the general opinion of Italian tune-ups anyway? Usually done to carburetted gasoline engines. Idea is that the high revs create large volume flow through the system, burning/blowing out any accumulated crud and carbon from your carbs, intake, combustion chamber, and exhaust system. Can attest to it's efficacy on a number of old Alfas and Jags. Fun to do. The technique is to accelerate up to about 9/10ths of redline, hold it there about 20 seconds, and lift off gradually. Shut off without idling as soon as possible afterwards. Don't do this to an engine that is in poor shape, low on oil, timing belt/chain past due replacement, or has damaged motor mounts. You could break expensive bits. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Hurricane
Ross, Weather does not follow any specific pattern, occurences are interrelated but entirely random as to the frequency of intensity. The magnitude of a hurricane is directly related to water temperature where the hurricane is. The thing is that water temperatures have not risen enough to cause a change in hurricane intensities. Global warming is perhaps true, but temperatures have not risen enough [yet] to cause any significant weather changes. Hi Martin, Back in the 50's a study was done as part of the International Geophysical Year activities, that consisted in crossing the South Atlantic with a very long cable hanging down with a thermometer on the end. We can consider this baseline data. Back in the 90's the measurements were repeated, and something like a 1.5 degree rise in temperature was recorded. This may not seem like much, but the measurements were taken at depths that are unchanged by seasonal variations. What this means is that a great deal of heat has been retained in the system (it's a LOT of water). Imagine a big stockpot full of gently simmering water. Barely twist the knob on the range to increase temp slightly, watch water surface. An almost imperceptible increase in the size of your gas flame or watts fed to the resistance will result in larger swirls and bubbles. Scale this up to Earth and it's oceans, as well as the surrounding atmosphere. We get bigger swirls and bubbles. These appear as stronger hurricanes, colder freeze events, longer droughts, bigger snowstorms. I'm sure you are aware that most of the extreme events recorded in the last couple of centuries have tended to cluster in the last 50 years. Some notable exceptions include the Great Blizzard of the IIRC the late 1880's. The argument is simplistic, but it's logic appears to hold, and it seems to be the general concensus of most of the world's scientists as well. We've turned up the flame. I also have faith in our capacity to turn it back down, so that maybe it will only be something that our great-great-grandchildren will study as history. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
Actually, Canada is still the largest trade partner of the U.S. However, China is gaining fast, and is poised to take over the number one position within 2 years. Thanks for the clarification. I'd been under that impression for the last couple of years :p In my conversations, I gather that most outside the U.S. see Kerry and Bush as more alike than different (white, male, American, rich from U.S. corporate interests, almost identical social, cultural and family backgrounds, etc.) I don't think people here in Latin America focus so much on background. It's taken as bit of a given that to be the American President it helps to embody those particular attributes What people here comment on is the grace and bearing of the candidates, the look in their eyes. andres yver ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
Andres Yver wrote: Phorum is good software, open source. The 5.07 beta is really powerful. snip Hello Andres, Making the decision to choose mailman was a difficult one. We did not know about Phorum when we made the decision, however; we were very worried about security at the time due to the fact that Yahoo! had proved to be very unreliable and insecure. Mailman is use by hundreds of mailing lists and is known to be secure. Unfortunately we did not know anything about the security of alternatives that were considered. Mailman is great! It's a good choice. Maybe someone will write an interface so listees can post from a web page. thanks, andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Creating a cool room storage in a hot climate
I have, but if possible I would like to build a natural system that does not require energy. They had to store food here before electricity, all I need to find out is how. Bright Blessings, Kim At 09:41 AM 9/9/2004, you wrote: Have you considered gas fired refrigerators? Hi Kim, In Dixie, food was typically preserved by canning, pickling, salt and/or nitrate curing, smoking, and also as sugared preserves, like jams and marmalades. Much else was consumed fresh, usually from local sources. Food choices were a seasonal kind of thing, with lots of vegetables and then fruit in spring, summer, and fall, mostly grains and meat in winter. Barnyard fowl would be eaten year-round from home stock, fish from local waters. Native Americans and African Americans used cucurbitacae and yams, which keep well in warm and humid climates. If you'd like a root cellar, the suggestions made are good. Insulate very well, use an absorption cooling system, power it with the sun or with an existing waste heat source or with biomass. Plant trees. Help drop that water table. I've had some really sweet summer afternoons in south Texas under big trees. Walk out into the sun and you'd feel like keeling over right away. andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Using an email discussion list
I don't know if the wwia.org server can handle phorum, which is a php powered discussion group program. It works very well, in my experience. Would something like this make it easier to manage the list rather than emails? I find it difficult to follow discussions and topics the way things are set up this way. (I suppose I could learn?) Just a suggestion. JEFF Phorum is good software, open source. The 5.07 beta is really powerful. It allows lists such as this to have a web interface that arranges subjects and threads in a visually meaningful manner, yet retains full list functionality for those who prefer email. The integration is pretty seamless. Users choose what works best for them. If this were a democracy, i would vote yes to having a web interface. Don't forget the many people who only have internet access at the library or cyber-cafe. 2 pesos from south of the equator... andres ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kerry preferred around World - Poll
So far that is THE best aregument for re-electing Bush that I've heard. America's foreign interests may well go against world opinion. if so that's just too bad I don't think that having US national security issues decided in Paris or Bejing is sound judgement the citing that in China Kerry is prefered sets off serious warning bells in my mind. If it doesn't in your mind there is something very wrong. AD Hi Allan, Not so long ago, people around the world were concerned about the spread of Communism. We looked to Moscow and hoped the next Russian leader would be a moderate, not one of the old-guard intelligence community hard-liners, prone to de-stabilizing and invading strategic territory abroad, while cracking down on personal freedoms at home. As a whole, i think the world prefers civil dialogue, which helps us find common ground in an uncertain world, rather than extremism, which can promote fear and loathing of any who believe differently. The places in the world where lots of men, women, and children are dying from bullets and bombs are the places where ideology is taken literally and to extremes. China is the United State's biggest trade partner. The economies of these two nations are mutually dependent. It's in everyone's best interest that all the cash generated by this good business is not spent on weapons of mass destruction. If China sees America as scary people, it could do any number of things, including restricting trade. China has historically shown the capacity to absorb extreme economic shock without losing internal cohesion. The Great Depression of the nineteen-thirties was a walk in the park compared to what China has seen in the 50's and 60's. I don't think America would adjust so easily to empty shelves at Mall Wart, although you know it would be good for us. American made means paying jobs in our hometowns. I don't know if Kerry's handlers are all that different from the current President's, but in the eyes of the world the men stand worlds apart. andres yver ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[biofuel] Re: Circulation with pump washing
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 06:41 PM, biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: 1) Throw out your mist washer. 2) Box up your bubble washer. 3) Make absolutely sure that you never try to wash an incomplete reaction by testing washing a 1 ounce sample in a sealed jar. 4) Use a motor driven impeller to mix the water/fuel mixture to the point of appearing homogenous for ~5 minutes. 5) Let settle 1 hour. 6) Syphon off the top layer of fuel and repeat steps 5, 6 7 two more cycles. 7) Let the fuel air dry or heat to 120*F to dry. 8) Combine all your wash waters and the 1-2 of fuel that was left on top after each syphoning in a collection tank. 9) Let settle 24 hours. 10) Remove lower water layer to a wastewater treatment tank to recover the soaps. 11) Return the accumulated fuel from the wash water residue to your first wash of your next batch. Hi, Should step 6 read 'repeat steps 4, 5, 6 two more cycles' ? thanks, andres yver Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Gentlemen, set your filters
On Saturday, August 28, 2004, at 01:58 PM, Todd wrote: Message: 17 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:49:53 -0500 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Gentlemen, set your filters Save yourself hours of agony Maria. Just post the precise urls of the conversation, in perfectly sequential order and be done with it. Let any and all derive their own interpretation, should they have any interest in doing so. So far this rant has consumed hundreds of hours in collective time, bruised and injured untold members from numerous lists and added several cords of free fuel to the fires of intentionally and wantonly destructive individuals. It's a waste. It's relentless. And it needs to stop now. Not next week. Not tomorrow. Not when and/or if you or anyone else ever feels vindicated. Life's too short and there's too much to be accomplished to be slowed down by this mindless mess and all that has springboarded from it. Todd Swearingen Thank you Todd! We're here (as i see it in the short time on this list) to learn and share our knowledge of biofuel and its processing, as well as relevant information which can help us guide (as voters) energy policy in our respective countries, and empower us to make informed decisions regarding our own energy consumption/production. Here's a poem to consider: A RITUAL TO READ TO EACH OTHER If you don't know the kind of person I am and I don't know the kind of person you are a pattern that others made may prevail in the world and following the wrong god home we may miss our star. For there is many a small betrayal in the mind, A shrug that lets the fragile sequence break sending with shouts the horrible errors of childhood storming out to play through the broken dyke. And as elephants parade holding each elephant's tail but if one wanders the circus won't find the park, I call it cruel and maybe the root of all cruelty to know what occurs but not recognize the fact. And so I appeal to a voice, to something shadowy, a remote important region in all who talk: though we could fool each other, we should consider- Lest the parade of our mutual life get lost in the dark. For it is important that awake people be awake, or a breaking line may discourage them back to sleep; the signals we give-yes or no, or maybe- should be clear: the darkness around us is deep. Ê WILLIAM STAFFORD andres yver Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: processing 4000 liters a week - permits.
On Saturday, August 28, 2004, at 01:58 PM, PeterG wrote: Message: 9 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:23:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: processing 4000 liters a week - permits. Hi Andres ; Congratulations! I think we all would like to wish you luck and success in your new project. From my past experience with chemicals processing (pcb factory), there were local registration requirements for any tank over 80 gallons in which the pH was less than 5 or over 9. There was also secondary containment requirements (cement berm around the place with an appropriate enclosed volume to contain all the liquids). There were other requirements for flammable liquids like biodiesel, methanol, etc (fire detection and sprinkler, building construction, etc). Please check with your local fire department before filling any tank. Sooner or later you may need those guys (hopefully never!). If the first time they see your setup is when there is a problem, you may find yourself in a lot of hot water. You can demonstrate good citizenship and intentions by meeting with them and getting their input BEFORE there is a problem. These guys put their lives on the line every day. Nothing annoys them more than clandestine operations (planned or done in secret) which are flagrant fire hazards. If you get their input first, they will be more than happy to help you. If you don't, they will surely hurt you. Best Wishes Peter G. Thailand Peter, Thanks for the sound advice. Before being allowed to pick up the WVO, i've got to submit everything (vehicle, tanks, storage, processing area, etc. to the appropriate local authorities. If they like what they see, they issue a permit for the transport of oils, fats, alcohols, soaps and fatty acids, as well as a further permit for storage and non-feed 'recycling' of same. I've also got to be able to prove, at any given point in time, that no waste stream hits the environment. Even the wash water will need to be recycled. The local volunteer fire department will be one of my first customers. They'll get the stuff at cost. Poor guys stand around intersections during lunch hour with their helmets out, trolling for tips. Gets hot in those black leather suits. : ( andres yver Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] OT (?) Diesel engine for Rover
Hi All, Hope this isn't off-topic. A friend wants to pay a debt with a Range Rover Classic. Might be useful as a tow vehicle for carting WVO. Strong frame. Am planning on hauling a 2000 liter tank. Problem is, it's a gasoline V8, auto transmission. Gasoline in Chile is about 85 cents a liter, or 3.25 a gallon. Propane is an option at 55 cents a liter or 2.10 a gallon. Makes much more sense to use our own biodiesel. To do this, an engine conversion is in order. The Rover/BMW turbo diesels aren't available here, but Ford Ranger pickups made in Argentina come with a 2.8 liter PowerStroke Tdi built by International (used to be Maxion, Brazil) which i am told is a further development of the 300tdi Rover engine. I'm working on finding a ZF bell-housing to see if this conversion is possible. Has anyone on-list converted their rover to diesel? thanks, andres yver Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Need A Name Contest
On Monday, August 23, 2004, at 12:53 PM, biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: One thing that's a little stuck right now is a PRODUCT NAME. I'm the only one who likes my previous product name, Yellow brand PREMIUM Biodiesel, so we have to look elsewhere. How about SunFuel? Has that been done? good luck, andres Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
