Re: [Biofuel] How to Burn the Speculators
I don't get the Palley's comment below. If we only fill half our tanks, we'll go to the pump twice as much. Doesn't that work out to the same consumption? Well, that means double the consumption for the actual trip to the pump. Otherwise... Cheers. Keith Addison wrote: Right. http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/09/exit-strategy-how-to-burn-the-speculators.html How to Burn the Speculators snip And as economist Tom Palley has pointed out, consumers can help too. An awful lot of gas is stored in cars. If people stop topping off and make do with half a tank, they'll back up supply and lower demand. It's a brilliant suggestion and definitely worth a try. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Charles in GM 'disaster' warning
Good or bad, GM genes will cross over. It took good old mother nature eons to evolve the current gene pool. We cannot possibly know the long term effects. And we cannot know the long term effects of our consumption of modified food. We evolved along with these foods, and not it's not the same food. I'd be worried. John Guag Meister wrote: Hi All ; These danger are very real and the warnings are well taken, but please understand that they are the result of the good intentions of the good GM companies. My question always is (sorry for sounding like a broken record, errr I mean CD) : if these are the results of good intentions from good corporations trying to help us, how much worse will the results from bad intentions from bad corporations or groups? ie. someone or group who are deliberately trying to create havoc and destruction, and there are many, for whatever reason? BR Peter G. Thailand ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proven to the world by Shell Oil Company in 1973
How does one vaporize all the different components in today's gasoline? Don't all those additives and stuff complicate the situation? John Mike Pelly wrote: We did tests on Vaporized Gasoline carburation on a datsun/nissan 510 and the gas milage results were not all that impressive. We were not able to do any kind of test on a track or somewhere where we could drive flat and straight on a carefully measured amount of gas. In our estimate on our most careful test at the time (1992), we ended up getting about 35mpg on a car that normally got about 28. When doing this test we had (at times) everything dialed in and were able to maintain the proper temperatures and the Exhaust smelled exactly like the exhaust from a Propane Powered Vehicle (this car did not have any cataletic converter on it either. Other times while doing this same test, we did not have our temperatures correct and the car was belching copious amounts of black exhaust (unburned gasoline) and was running like crap. In writing my original paper back in 1992 I recommended this technology would work best in a toyota prius type 'hybrid-electric' car (this was before they even were building the prius) or a stationary gas powered generator. The prius type drive train would work the best because it is easy to maintain an engine RPM range like 2000-2500RPMs somewhere making it easyest to regulate the exhaust heat and fuel pressure/volume and not have the problems we faced with a conventional engine where the RPMs can continually jump from say 500RMP at idle to 4000 for acceleration and back to 1000 for braking or shifting gears, continually. My paper with photos and schematics is written under 'Nom de Plume' of, Frieda Mind and can be found at www.ByronWine.com site: http://www.ByronWine.com/files/1992%20vapor.pdf the paper includes all the information one would ever need to design and build a vaporized gasoline system for a prius type hybrid engine drivetrain. The affirmation for anyone who still doubts this technology, should come from that 1959 Opel that got 376 MPGs back in 1973 and reported in the Febuary 20, 2008 'Seattle PI' newspaper found at this link; http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351903_needle20.html The tests on this 59 Opel were sponsored by Shell Oil. Granted the car was gutted of many parts and was only going 30 miles per hour on a track But it did get 376mpg! not 75, 100, or 200mpg. It got 376mpgs! This is 7 times the gas milege of a standard Prius, our current state of the art in drive train configurations. My hope is that home inventors will Very Carefully!!! experiment with this technology and build their own versions, even if only on a stationary generator and share their findings. This will help pull this technology out of the locked file cases the car and oil companies have held it in for too long now and out into the spot lights so we can shame the car and oil companies into utilizing this technology Finally! We all need to take some concrete steps towards addressing Global Climate Changes. This advancement would be similar to what thousands of biodiesel homebrewers have been able to do over the past 10 years in making biodiesel a product consumers are now very aware of and demanding to have available to them. Nuff said, Sincerely, Mike __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3057 (20080426) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer
Or maybe they know it get's re-filled by mother earth and so don't want to divulge the information. Not that I'm convinced yet that this is the process. Alan Petrillo wrote: As Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute http://www.rmi.org/ has pointed out, 94% of the world's petroleum reserves are owned by countries which consider them national secrets, and hold their information close to the chest. For this reason we don't really know with any degree of accuracy just how much oil there is out there. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer
Walking around through life with blinders on make stupid people happier. Keith Addison wrote: We never really did get to the bottom of this, so to speak. - Keith - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=vaaid=6880 War and Peak Oil Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer by F. William Engdahl Global Research, September 26, 2007 Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer The good news is that panic scenarios about the world running out of oil anytime soon are wrong. The bad news is that the price of oil is going to continue to rise. Peak Oil is not our problem. Politics is. Big Oil wants to sustain high oil prices. Dick Cheney and friends are all too willing to assist. On a personal note, I've researched questions of petroleum, since the first oil shocks of the 1970's. I was intrigued in 2003 with something called Peak Oil theory. It seemed to explain the otherwise inexplicable decision by Washington to risk all in a military move on Iraq. Peak Oil advocates, led by former BP geologist Colin Campbell, and Texas banker Matt Simmons, argued that the world faced a new crisis, an end to cheap oil, or Absolute Peak Oil, perhaps by 2012, perhaps by 2007. Oil was supposedly on its last drops. They pointed to our soaring gasoline and oil prices, to the declines in output of North Sea and Alaska and other fields as proof they were right. According to Campbell, the fact that no new North Sea-size fields had been discovered since the North Sea in the late 1960's was proof. He reportedly managed to convince the International Energy Agency and the Swedish government. That, however, does not prove him correct. Intellectual fossils? The Peak Oil school rests its theory on conventional Western geology textbooks, most by American or British geologists, which claim oil is a 'fossil fuel,' a biological residue or detritus of either fossilized dinosaur remains or perhaps algae, hence a product in finite supply. Biological origin is central to Peak Oil theory, used to explain why oil is only found in certain parts of the world where it was geologically trapped millions of years ago. That would mean that, say, dead dinosaur remains became compressed and over tens of millions of years fossilized and trapped in underground reservoirs perhaps 4-6,000 feet below the surface of the earth. In rare cases, so goes the theory, huge amounts of biological matter should have been trapped in rock formations in the shallower ocean offshore as in the Gulf of Mexico or North Sea or Gulf of Guinea. Geology should be only about figuring out where these pockets in the layers of the earth, called reservoirs, lie within certain sedimentary basins. An entirely alternative theory of oil formation has existed since the early 1950's in Russia, almost unknown to the West. It claims conventional American biological origins theory is an unscientific absurdity that is un-provable. They point to the fact that western geologists have repeatedly predicted finite oil over the past century, only to then find more, lots more. Not only has this alternative explanation of the origins of oil and gas existed in theory. The emergence of Russia and prior of the USSR as the world's largest oil producer and natural gas producer has been based on the application of the theory in practice. This has geopolitical consequences of staggering magnitude. Necessity: the mother of invention In the 1950's the Soviet Union faced 'Iron Curtain' isolation from the West. The Cold War was in high gear. Russia had little oil to fuel its economy. Finding sufficient oil indigenously was a national security priority of the highest order. Scientists at the Institute of the Physics of the Earth of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Geological Sciences of the Ukraine Academy of Sciences began a fundamental inquiry in the late 1940's: where does oil come from? In 1956, Prof. Vladimir Porfir'yev announced their conclusions: 'Crude oil and natural petroleum gas have no intrinsic connection with biological matter originating near the surface of the earth. They are primordial materials which have been erupted from great depths.' The Soviet geologists had turned Western orthodox geology on its head. They called their theory of oil origin the 'a-biotic' theory-non-biological-to distinguish from the Western biological theory of origins. If they were right, oil supply on earth would be limited only by the amount of organic hydrocarbon constituents present deep in the earth at the time of the earth's formation. Availability of oil would depend only on technology to drill ultra-deep wells and explore into the earth's inner regions. They also realized old fields could be revived to continue producing, so called self-replentishing fields. They argued that oil is formed deep in the earth, formed in conditions of very
Re: [Biofuel] Consumers can and will pay more for food
As many of us know, the earth's ability to supply resources for 6 billion people has reached it's limit. Now it's which end use these resources are assigned. Food or fuel? More of one means less of the other. We are in decline. Keith Addison wrote: Brownfield: Ag News of America Consumers can and will pay more for food Monday, February 25, 2008, 3:12 PM by Peter Shinn For the past 11 years, the American Farm Bureau Federation has celebrated the fact that Americans generally pay around 10% of their total income for food, the lowest total of any nation on earth, with an event called Food Checkout Day. It's typically held in the first week of February to symbolize the number of days the average American has to work in order to earn enough money to pay for their food bill. But due to a wide range of factors, it looks like that date may have to be pushed back next year. In fact, U.S. consumers have enjoyed steady to declining food prices, at least in real terms, for many years. That's according to Bill Lapp, President of Advanced Economic Solutions, who says those good times for American food consumers are over, most likely forever. Lapp, the former leading economist for ConAgra, told Brownfield bread prices rose over 10% in 2007 and are likely to do at least that again this year. He added other food prices will also head higher as food manufacturers increasingly pass on the costs of high commodities to consumers. The good news, Lapp said, is that most U.S. consumers can afford to pay up, even if they won't have much choice in the matter. I think consumers are more prepared than we realize to accept higher prices on food and I think that's part of our future, Lapp predicted. It's largely been set in stone for us already. Set in stone because the factors that have driven ag commodity prices sharply higher since August of 2006 haven't changed. And according to Lapp, who spoke Friday at USDA's Ag Outlook Forum, those factors are manifold. The risk of weather and a 5% increase in world coarse grain demand and still strong global economic growth and [biofuels] mandates from the government all suggest, Lapp said, that the bonfire that we've started is still going strong. All that, Lapp emphasized, makes robust U.S. crop production this year critically important. He called the consequences of a potential 10% cut in this year's corn crop due to drought scary. And he said it may be a number of years before technological advances that improve yields boost crop production enough to generate surpluses in the face of the strong demand factors he listed. There's a lot of things in the pipeline - some of the new varieties and their resistance to drought have really benefited the industry, Lapp pointed out. But it's going to take a while and the first thing we have to do is attract more acreage into production and eventually we can have those yields, he added. And again, of course, we're always vulnerable on a year-to-year basis from weather-caused yield declines. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said
I suppose it depends on context. The quoted phrase below does not indicate if it is positively associated or negatively associated. Kirk McLoren wrote: Are you saying may be associated with improved behavior and mental performance could be construed as they are saying it is bad for you? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said
I happen to agree. Was just trying to point out that they make statements like that to alleviate concern and at the same time not commit themselves to false facts. Kirk McLoren wrote: Then I guess I dont understand English. The result of the story is to alleviate concern about thiomosol - which I believe to be unconscionable Kirk John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suppose it depends on context. The quoted phrase below does not indicate if it is positively associated or negatively associated. Kirk McLoren wrote: Are you saying may be associated with improved behavior and mental performance could be construed as they are saying it is bad for you? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080224/32794794/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Before You Vote for Hillary Clinton Read This
I believe that one major hidden agenda item is to cull the population (world wide). This 'letter' just adds support to that. Unfortunately, the possibly unintended side affect of global agricultural wipe-out has got me even more worried. John Keith Addison wrote: http://henwhisperer.blogspot.com/2008/02/before-you-vote-for-hillary-clinton.html FEBRUARY 2, 2008 Before You Vote for Hillary Clinton Read This An Open Letter to Hillary Clinton from Another Wellesley College Alumna Dear Hillary, By polling logic, I should be your supporter - Democrat, older woman, white, liberal. I was even in a dorm with you in college. I have pulled for you for years. But something this past summer fundamentally changed my responsibility to my children and grandchildren. In the time I have left in my life to protect them and others, I need to speak out. I saw a News Hour piece on Maharastra, India, about farmers committing suicide. Monsanto, a US agricultural giant, hired Bollywood actors for ads telling illiterate farmers they could get rich (by their standards) from big yields with Monsanto's Bt (genetically engineered) cotton seeds. The expensive seeds needed expensive fertilizer and pesticides (Monsanto, again) and irrigation. There is no irrigation there. Crops failed. Farmers had larger debt than they'd ever experienced And farmers couldn't collect seeds from their own fields to try again (true since time immemorial). Monsanto patents their DNA-altered seeds as intellectual property. They have a $10 million budget and a staff of 75 devoted solely to prosecuting farmers. http://www.grist.org/comments/food/2008/01/17./). Since the late 1990s (about when industrial agriculture took hold in India),166,000 Indian farmers have committed suicide and 8 million have left the land. Farmers in Europe, Asia, Africa, Indonesia,South America, Central America and here, have protested Monsanto and genetic engineering for years. What does this have to do with you? You have connections to Monsanto through the Rose Law Firm where you worked and through Bill who hired Monsanto people for central food-related roles. Your Orwellian-named Rural Americans for Hillary was planned withTroutman Sanders, Monsanto's lobbyists. Genetic engineering and industrialized food and animal production all come together at the Rose Law Firm, which represents the world's largest GE corporation (Monsanto), GE's most controversial project (DPL's - now Monsanto's - terminator genes), the world's largest meat producer (Tyson), the world's largest retailer and a dominant food retailer (Walmart). The inbred-ness of Rose's legal representation of corporations which own controlling interests in other corporations there and of corporate boards sharing members who are also shareholders of each other's corporations there, is so thorough that it is hard to capture. Jon Jacoby, senior executive of the Stephens Group - one of the largest institutional shareholders of Tyson Foods, Walmart, DPL - is also Chairman of the Board of DPL and arranged the Wal-Mart deal. Jackson Stephens' Stephens Group staked Sam Walton and financed Tyson Foods. Monsanto bought DPL. All represented at Rose. You didn't just work there, you made friends. That shows in the flow of favors then and since. You were invited onto Walmart's board, you were helped by a Tyson executive to make commodity trades (3 days before Bill became governor), netting you $100,000, Jackson Stephens strongly backed Bill for Governor, and then for President (donating $100,000). http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2006/0828.html Food and friends, in Clinton terms: Bill's appointed friend Mike Espy, Secretary of Agriculture, who immediately significantly weakened federal chicken waste and contamination standards, opening the door to major expansion of Tyson's chicken factory farms (www.financialsense.com/ editorials/engdahl/2006/0828.html). Espy resigned, indicted for accepting bribes, illegal contributions, money laundering, illegal dispersal of USDA subsidies, Tyson Foods was the largest corporate offender. http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/GMO/Monsanto/monsanto.html But what Bill did for Monsanto genetic engineering goes beyond inadequate concepts of giving corporate friends influence: He unleashed genetic engineering into the world. And then he helped close off people's escape from it. Genetic engineering is many orders of magnitude different from normal (even polluting) business in its potential biologic ramifications. The warning myth of Pandora'a Box - letting irretrievable things rush out into nature - has become real. The harrowing change to the world from nuclear fission and fusion is the closest parallel. What did Bill do? 1. Bill's put Monsanto people in at the FDA, as US Agricultural Trade Representatives, on International
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
Zeke: Are you talking about $30K to change out a battery pack, or a whole lithium based vehicle for $30K? Seems to me that would be a real bargain. Cheers John Zeke Yewdall wrote: ...snip... For about $30k, you can fairly easily get 100+ mile range on a plain battery EV. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
Even better with my 50 mile commute. My wife's career is here, mine 50 miles out. No savings by moving, still adds up to 100 miles per day. :( Alan Petrillo wrote: John Mullan wrote: Zeke: Are you talking about $30K to change out a battery pack, or a whole lithium based vehicle for $30K? Seems to me that would be a real bargain. Indeed it would. If I could find a Lithium BEV that cheap that would do what I need then I might look seriously into it. With $3+/gallon gasoline, and diesel fuel more than that, and my 30 mile daily commute, payback would come pretty quickly with that. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
I think we're deviating from the original subject, but I'd like to add that I wish the Chevy Volt was more than a concept car. Would fill the gap until all electric has suitable range. Topping up at work likely wouldn't be an issue for me. Cheers. Alan Petrillo wrote: John Mullan wrote: Even better with my 50 mile commute. My wife's career is here, mine 50 miles out. No savings by moving, still adds up to 100 miles per day. :( My problem is that I have stretches of interstate highway no matter how I go, so I need a vehicle that will go 75mph, and keep going 75mph for at least 12 miles in each direction. So far most of the affordable BEV's that I've seen either a) won't go that fast, or b) won't go that fast for that long. Or c) just plain don't have the range I need. Plus there's no chance of topping up the charge while I'm at work so I'd need to go the whole round trip on a single charge. AP Alan Petrillo wrote: John Mullan wrote: Zeke: Are you talking about $30K to change out a battery pack, or a whole lithium based vehicle for $30K? Seems to me that would be a real bargain. Indeed it would. If I could find a Lithium BEV that cheap that would do what I need then I might look seriously into it. With $3+/gallon gasoline, and diesel fuel more than that, and my 30 mile daily commute, payback would come pretty quickly with that. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hydrogen Car Sighting
Maybe just a research vehicle heading to some testing place? Alan Petrillo wrote: robert and benita wrote: Alan Petrillo wrote: I saw a hydrogen fuel cell powered Ford Focus in traffic this afternoon. It was on I-275 North going across the Howard Frankland bridge going toward Tampa, Florida. On the back of a flatbed truck. . . . because it didn't have the range to get anywhere on its own? . . . because it couldn't find fuel? : - ) All of the above? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] In Iraq Forever . . .
It's just one more step in the formalization of dictatorship. Loard help us all. robert and benita wrote: Hello everyone! I started reading Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine, and it's making me mad! Then, I stumbled across THIS article: http://www.americanprogressaction.org/progressreport/2008/01/pr20080130 I February 2008 by Faiz Shakir, Amanda Terkel, Satyam Khanna, Matt Corley, Ali Frick, and Benjamin Armbruster ADMINISTRATION Bush Issues New Imperial Decree Earlier this week, President Bush signed http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080128-10.html the National Defense Authorization Act of 2008, which included a statute forbidding the Bush administration from spending taxpayer money to establish any military installation or base for the purpose of providing for the permanent stationing of United States Armed Forces in Iraq http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/01/30/bush_asserts_authority_to_bypass_defense_act/. But Bush quietly attached a signing statement to the law, asserting a unilateral right to disregard the ban on permanent bases in addition to three other measures in the bill. Provisions of the act...could inhibit the president's ability to carry out his constitutional obligations http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080128-10.html...to protect national security, the signing statement read. Reacting to the statement, Center for American Progress Senior Fellow Mark Agrast said, On the merits, for the president to assert that Congress lacks the authority to say there shouldn't be permanent bases on foreign soil is fanciful at best http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2248965,00.html. Bush's frequent use of signing statements to advance aggressive theories of executive power http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/01/30/bush_asserts_authority_to_bypass_defense_act/?page=2 has been a hallmark of his presidency, writes the Boston Globe's Charlie Savage, who has authored a book http://www.amazon.com/Takeover-Imperial-Presidency-Subversion-Democracy/dp/0316118044 on that topic. In 2006, the American Bar Association condemned signing statements as contrary to the rule of law http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/01/30/bush_asserts_authority_to_bypass_defense_act/?page=2 and our constitutional separation of powers. Bush's latest signing statement was immediately met with anger on Capitol Hill. I reject the notion in his signing statement that he can pick and choose http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/01/30/bush_asserts_authority_to_bypass_defense_act/ which provisions of this law to execute, said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) added, Congress has a right to expect that the Administration will faithfully implement all of the provisions of the law -- not just the ones the President happens to agree with http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48741747_floor-statement-senator-carl-levin-bushs-signing-s. THE POWER TO STAY IN IRAQ FOREVER: Last November, Bush announced that he and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had signed a Declaration of Principles for a Long-Term Relationship of Cooperation and Friendship http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/11/20071126-11.html that set the parameters for negotiating an enduring http://www.americanprogressaction.org/progressreport/2007/11/pr20071129 U.S. occupation of Iraq. The negotiations have drawn fire in part because the administration said it does not intend to designate http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/01/30/bush_asserts_authority_to_bypass_defense_act?mode=PF the declaration as a treaty, and so will not submit it to Congress for approval. Bush's attempt to waive the ban http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/29/signing-statement-iraq/ on permanent bases is seen as one more step in the direction of establishing a long-term U.S. presence in Iraq. If Bush is allowed to negotiate a treaty with Iraq that binds the United States under international law, the next president will be handcuffed http://www.commondreams.org/news2008/0129-09.htm, said John Isaacs, Executive Director of the Council for a Livable World. The Guardian notes that permanent bases are broadly unpopular http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2248965,00.html with Iraqis, who have voiced fears of an ongoing U.S. occupation. Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), who has led the push to prevent permanent bases, explained that Bush's statement is sending a dangerous signal to the people of Iraq that the U.S. has a long-term interest in occupying their country, a move that will only enflame the insurgency http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2248965,00.html. Speaking on the Senate floor yesterday, Sen. Robert Casey (D-PA) said that while administration officials frequently state
Re: [Biofuel] Is Walmart Good For America?
And after North America (it is affecting us Canucks too!) is so hooked on Wal-Mart (Chinese) cheap stuff and standards are low enough, China will cut us off and we'll fall apart. Okay, so that is conspiracy thinking. But it is a fragile balance. Cheers. doug swanson wrote: Frontline did an in-depth report on this, and it's available for online viewing: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator
I've seen that before. Excellent idea. I wonder how much all that copper, insulation, etc. would cost (for purpose of payback period)? Kirk McLoren wrote: http://fourmileisland.com/IceBox.htm - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080109/79a43087/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Honda creating home system for drivers to make hydrogen
Why would anybody want to waste the lost energy converting electricity to hydrogen to electricity for the car? Ain't it better to just put the electricity into the car and be done with it? I'm thinking the only sense this would make is long haul, since battery technology isn't quite there yet. Zeke Yewdall wrote: Hm. The only article I could find that gives the specs of the CIGS modules is from late 2005, and indicates 112 watts per module... at $509 that's $4.54/watt a little cheaper than retail price for standard crystalline PV, but also a little less power density than standard crystalline PV. It doesn't mention what the thermal degradation factor is... I know that the Siemens CIGS modules had a bit higher degradation than standard silicon, which means less energy production during hot days. Z Honda Entering Solar Cell Market for Homes and Vehicles 18 December 2005 Cigs Typical layout of a CIGS solar cell (Univ. Strathclyde) Nikkei. Honda Motor is entering the market for solar cells designed for use in households and also plans to promote their use in vehicles, according to a report in the Nihon Keizai Shimbun. Honda is building a ¥10-billion (US$86.5-million) factory to begin mass production in fiscal 2007 of solar cells made an inexpensive thin-membrane non-silicon metal compound developed by Honda engineering. The Honda solar panels, first announced in 2002, feature a light-absorbing layer formed by a compound made of copper, indium, gallium and diselenium (CIGS). Thin-film solar cells based on CIGS (Cu(In,Ga)Se2) absorbers are among the leading devices which are expected to lower the costs for photovoltaic energy conversion. Other companies working with CIGS cells include Shell Solar and Würth. Early Honda CIGS module prototypes had a maximum output of 112 W at dimensions of 1,367 × 802 × 46 mm. Honda is working to improve the efficiency. Honda's solar cells will likely sell for some 1.5 million yen each, 20%-30% less than silicon-made cells, according to the report. The new plant will initially have an annual capacity to produce about 30 megawatts worth of solar cells, enough for 10,000 households a year. Initially, the company aims to market them only in Japan. But it will later sell them in overseas markets, eyeing mainly North America and Europe, where demand is expected to surge in the future. Honda is also considering a scheme that would use solar cells to power a home electrolysis unit for the production of hydrogen for vehicle refueling. Honda's current prototype home hydrogen energy systems rely on natural gas reforming. (Earlier post.) Hondaelectrolproto Honda's prototype solar-powered electrolysis unit for hydrogen generation. Honda combined its CIGS solar cells with a Honda-developed compact electrolysis unit that uses a new Ruthenium-based catalyst in a prototype at its Torrance, California facility. The prototype solar-powered electrolysis unit produces hydrogen at a rate of 2 normal cubic meters per hour (Nm3/hr). On Nov 11, 2007 7:39 PM, AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honda creating home system for drivers to make hydrogen http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/08/bloomberg/sxhonda.php TOKYO: Honda Motor, aiming to start mass production of fuel-cell cars by about 2015, is developing a system using solar energy for drivers to make hydrogen at home to fuel such vehicles. Individual production of hydrogen would let people refuel their cars without waiting for a network of stations to be set up, the company's president, Takeo Fukui, said. Automakers, under pressure to cut carbon dioxide emissions tied to global warming and tailpipe exhaust, are seeking alternatives to oil as prices approach $100 a barrel. Honda, Toyota Motor and General Motors have all said hydrogen powered autos are a long-term option, though they are costly to build and lack a refueling infrastructure. Our ultimate goal is to use a renewable source of energy as a source of fuel, Masaaki Kato, the president of research and development at Honda, said. So we use solar panels to generate electricity and we use the electricity to produce hydrogen. Honda, the second-largest automaker in Japan, plans Wednesday to unveil a fuel-cell vehicle based on its prototype FCX sports car at the Los Angeles Auto Show. In 2008, the new car initially will be leased to fewer than 100 people, most in California, Fukui said Oct. 23. While producing hydrogen from solar-powered electrolysis would cut carbon dioxide emissions, it is not yet possible to do it cheaply or in sufficient quantity, said a chemistry professor, Nate Lewis, who is also an energy researcher at the California Institute of Technology. You need to do that cheaply and scalably - neither of which we are even close to being able
Re: [Biofuel] I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneer
No matter how much anybody thinks this is progress, nobody knows what the long term consequences are in modifying genes/DNA. We go ahead and do GM on vegetables and eat them. 100 or 1000 years from now, what will it do to the entire food chain, including ourselves. We evolved over time consuming natural foods. Now they want to create creatures and modify creatures via DNA. It may look good for a little while, but the entire effect on evolution cannot possibly be known. They will build them to be perfect. The problem is that natural occurances and evolution happen because of imperfections. One of these new liforms could actually escape, multiply and take over or wipe out life (think The Stand, or more loosely, Terminator). I think it is dangerous at best. John ---Original Message--- From: fox mulder Date: 10/7/2007 6:55:57 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] I am creating artificial life,declares US gene pioneer Source: http://www.guardian .co.uk/science/ 2007/oct/ 06/genetics. climatechange I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneer · Scientist has made synthetic chromosome · Breakthrough could combat global warming Ed Pilkington in New York The Guardian Saturday October 6 2007 Craig Venter, the controversial DNA researcher involved in the race to decipher the human genetic code, has built a synthetic chromosome out of laboratory chemicals and is poised to announce the creation of the first new artificial life form on Earth. The announcement, which is expected within weeks and could come as early as Monday at the annual meeting of his scientific institute in San Diego, California, will herald a giant leap forward in the development of designer genomes. It is certain to provoke heated debate about the ethics of creating new species and could unlock the door to new energy sources and techniques to combat global warming. Mr Venter told the Guardian he thought this landmark would be a very important philosophical step in the history of our species. We are going from reading our genetic code to the ability to write it. That gives us the hypothetical ability to do things never contemplated before. The Guardian can reveal that a team of 20 top scientists assembled by Mr Venter, led by the Nobel laureate Hamilton Smith, has already constructed a synthetic chromosome, a feat of virtuoso bio-engineering never previously achieved. Using lab-made chemicals, they have painstakingly stitched together a chromosome that is 381 genes long and contains 580,000 base pairs of genetic code. The DNA sequence is based on the bacterium Mycoplasma genitalium which the team pared down to the bare essentials needed to support life, removing a fifth of its genetic make-up. The wholly synthetically reconstructed chromosome, which the team have christened Mycoplasma laboratorium, has been watermarked with inks for easy recognition. It is then transplanted into a living bacterial cell and in the final stage of the process it is expected to take control of the cell and in effect become a new life form. The team of scientists has already successfully transplanted the genome of one type of bacterium into the cell of another, effectively changing the cell's species. Mr Venter said he was 100% confident the same technique would work for the artificially created chromosome. The new life form will depend for its ability to replicate itself and metabolise on the molecular machinery of the cell into which it has been injected, and in that sense it will not be a wholly synthetic life form. However, its DNA will be artificial, and it is the DNA that controls the cell and is credited with being the building block of life. Mr Venter said he had carried out an ethical review before completing the experiment. We feel that this is good science, he said. He has further heightened the controversy surrounding his potential breakthrough by applying for a patent for the synthetic bacterium. Pat Mooney, director of a Canadian bioethics organisation, ETC group, said the move was an enormous challenge to society to debate the risks involved. Governments, and society in general, is way behind the ball. This is a wake-up call - what does it mean to create new life forms in a test-tube? He said Mr Venter was creating a chassis on which you could build almost anything. It could be a contribution to humanity such as new drugs or a huge threat to humanity such as bio-weapons . Mr Venter believes designer genomes have enormous positive potential if properly regulated. In the long-term, he hopes they could lead to alternative energy sources previously unthinkable. Bacteria could be created, he speculates, that could help mop up excessive carbon dioxide, thus contributing to the solution to global warming, or produce fuels such as butane or propane made entirely from sugar. We are not afraid to take on things that are important just because they stimulate
Re: [Biofuel] Feeding people is easy: but we have to re-think the world from first principles
I think you hit the problem squarely. It is somewhat labor intensive. But two related things are at work ( IMHO ). Firstly, most people have moved away from the more labor intensive regime, and over generations the skills have shifted. Now the general populace is more than willing to work at something else and pay to have their food grown for them. Secondly, and closely related to the first point, big business is willing to be even bigger because these people are willing to pay. To do the production levels they need to for the demand, they use scads of fossil derivitives (fuel, fertilizer, etc.). If everyone spent just enough time growing their own food, they would all have to move to slightly more spacious land (apartment dwellers can NOT grow enough of their own without a decent sized plot). In the end, everyone would need to manage their soil husbandry (compost, et-al), may require livestock. So now they have to feed them as well. Okay, so maybe your neighbor does the livestock and you do the vegetables. So we start heading down the same road where people specialize and trade for what they want. I think it is a vicious cycle that we are doomed to repeat once the fossil fuel craze ends. 4/5 of the population will dwindle out and those that can feed themselves will. Eventually specialization and trade will again start. Sorry if I am repeating what everyone already knows. Cheers. John. ---Original Message--- From: robert and benita Date: 10/4/2007 4:26:27 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Feeding people is easy: but we have to re-think the world from first principles snip So while it's clear that high production doesn't have to involve machines, fossil inputs and vast tracks of land it DOES depend on nutrient recycling and soil husbandry. It's more labor intensive, certainly, .. The more I think about these things, the more I'm reminded that the issues of sprawl, food miles, energy use, Resource warfare, consumerism, corporatism, crime, climate change and other woes we face are all inter-related and revolve around decisions human beings make that are really NOT as immutable as we are led to think, or perhaps, that we like to think. snip -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071004/db837582/attachment.html -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20071004/db837582/attachment.jpe -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 33792 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20071004/db837582/attachment.gif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The DC Establishment vs American Public Opinion
It's not a war, it's an occupation. Can't pull out the troops. If they were withdrawn, the security of the oil won't be assured. Cheers. ---Original Message--- From: Keith Addison Date: 9/10/2007 5:49:21 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] The DC Establishment vs American Public Opinion http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/09/3714/ - CommonDreams.org Published on Sunday, September 9, 2007 by Salon.com The DC Establishment vs American Public Opinion By large majorities, Americans distrust Gen. Petreaus' report and, in general, claims about Progress in Iraq by Glenn Greenwald The Washington Establishment has spent the last several months glorifying Gen. David Petraeus, imposing the consensus that The Surge is Succeeding, and most importantly of all, ensuring that President Bush will not be compelled to withdraw troops from Iraq for the remainder of his presidency. The P.R. campaign to persuade the country that the Surge is Succeeding has been as intense and potent as any P.R. campaign since the one that justified the invasion itself. While this campaign has worked wonders with our gullible media stars and Democratic Congressional leadership, it has failed completely with the American people. Ever since the Surge was announced (and allowed) back in January, Conventional Beltway Media Wisdom continuously insisted that September was going to be the Dramatic Month of Reckoning, when droves of fair-minded and election-fearing Republicans finally abandoned the President and compelled an end to the war. But the opposite has occurred. Democratic Congressional leaders - due either to illusory fears of political repercussions and/or a desire that the war continue - seem more supportive than ever of the ongoing occupation (or at least more unwilling than ever to stop it). They are going to do nothing to mandate meaningful troop withdrawal. Most Republicans are hiding behind the shiny badges of Gen. Petraeus and his typically sunny claims about Progress in Iraq, and they, too, are as unified as ever that we cannot end our occupation. None of that is notable or surprising to anyone other than our nation's media stars. It has been depressingly predictable (and predicted) for months that Petreaus would descend on Washington in September, hail the Great Progress we are making, and the entire D.C. Establishment - and more than enough members of both parties - would meekly fall into line and support whatever scheme prevailed at the time for ensuring that we stayed in Iraq through the end of the Bush presidency. The notion of the Moderate Congressional Republican who will stand up to the President has long been an absurd Beltway myth, as was the expectation that Democrats in Congress would ever force the President to end the war. But what is notable about all of this, if not surprising as well, is that the overwhelming majority of the American people now harbor such intense distrust towards our political and media elite that they are virtually immune to any of these tactics. Several polls over the past month have revealed that most Americans do not trust Gen. Petraeus to give an accurate report about Iraq. And a newly released, comprehensive Washington Post-ABC News poll today starkly illustrates just how wide the gap is between American public opinion and the behavior of our political establishment. The majority of Americans have emphatically rejected the Beltway P.R. campaign of the last several months, and are as opposed more than ever before to the war. Perhaps most remarkably, in light of the bipartisan canonization rituals to which we have been subjected, a strong majority (53-39%) believes that Gen. Petreaus' report will try to make things look better than they really are (rather than honestly reflect the situation in Iraq). Moreover, huge majorities continue to believe that the war was not worth fighting (62-36%) and that the U.S. is not making significant progress toward restoring civil order in Iraq (60-36%). Only a small minority (28%) believe the Surge has made the situation in Iraq better, while vast majorities believe it has made no difference (58%) or has made the situation worse (12%). And a sizable plurality continues to believe the U.S. is losing the war (48-34%). More significantly still, overwhelming numbers of Americans understand what the D.C. Establishment refuses to accept: namely, that even if there are marginal and isolated security improvements, there is still no point in continuing to stay in Iraq. Large majorities want the number of U.S. troops in Iraq decreased (58-39%); believe overwhelmingly that a decrease should begin right away, rather than by the end of the year or next year (62-33%); and favor legislation now to compel troop withdrawal by the spring (55-41%). Yet the debate taking place in the Beltway regarding Iraq could not be any further removed from the views most Americans hold, and the war-continuing actions of our
Re: [Biofuel] Could Acetone improve mileage
Looks to me that the acetone helps clean out injectors, etc, and hence the improvement in mileage. Stop using acetone, deposits build up again, and lower mileage. John. ---Original Message--- From: Keith Addison Date: 8/28/2007 1:12:42 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Could Acetone improve mileage Hello Khamhiane Dear members, I came acrosse several website that claim that Acetone could improve significantly mileage. Any one please kindly give comments about this? And here's a website that will give you some answers: http://snipurl.com/1q0zx biofuel Acetone 182 matches (Sigh...) Best Keith Thank you Sincerely, Khamhiane ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/976 - Release Date: 27/08/2007 6:20 PM -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070828/c7ad413e/attachment.html -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20070828/c7ad413e/attachment.jpe -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 31121 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20070828/c7ad413e/attachment.gif ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
I admit, I don't the answer to that one. Yet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:12 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Hey John, I have been places where the tap water didn't taste good, and I understand why people there would buy bottled water. I would like my water to include the minerals/trace elements characteristic of good well water. Can reverse osmosis systems provide for this. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Hi Tom. Yes, I am sure it is possible to clean the water so it is healthy AND tastes good. I just don't know how. Yes, I could buy myself an R/O system for the home. I may yet. As you say, the cost of buying bottled water would pay for it. But I do not pay anywhere close to $1 - $3 for 1/2 liter. Average I pay $0.16 per 500ml by the 24-30 bottle case. I also pay $3.50 for the large water cooler type bottles per refill. And finally, I also agree that newer homes will, eventually, build with water filtration. Used to be here (Southern Ontario) that A/C was not the norm. Now it is. Pre-wired cable was not, now is. cheers. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:39 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water John, I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush Calls For Development Of National Air Conditioner
Yes. Indeed. But let's take this one step further if anyone is game. I'll start To help keep our homes cool, some of us pull down the shades. So let's build a HUGE shade in orbit of sufficient size to shade North America. Now, not totally opaque you understand. But more like a screen in order to allow some of the natural light through. We wouldn't want to kill off all the plants. Cheers. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of MK DuPree Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:21 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush Calls For Development Of National Air Conditioner The Onion is mostly satire, geared toward general goofiness. The purpose is not to present the news, but to present satire in a news format, to make fun of politicians and whatever else needs a good poking...comprende - Original Message - From: Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush Calls For Development Of National Air Conditioner UH? Onion owned - Original Message - From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush Calls For Development Of National Air Conditioner LOL...it's The Onion, man...satire... - Original Message - From: Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush Calls For Development Of National Air Conditioner Can´t believe this, a complete bullshit. Does anyone in the american government know the second principle of thermodynamics? Seems not. I am sure that congressmen can´t understand such a complex concept but the others? The reputed universities in the country, come'on. This is a fake - Original Message - From: Bruno M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 2:33 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bush Calls For Development Of National Air Conditioner The answer from Bush on Global Warming. ;-) Grts Bruno M. ~ www.theonion.com/content/news/addressing_climate_crisis_bush Addressing Climate Crisis, Bush Calls For Development Of National Air Conditioner June 20, 2007 | Issue 43.25 WASHINGTON, DCIn a nationally televised address reminiscent of President Kennedy's historic 1961 speech pledging to put a man on the moon, President Bush responded to the global warming crisis Monday by calling for the construction of a giant national air conditioner by the year 2015. www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Rising-Temperatures.article.jpg Concept art shows how the 800-mile-wide device would function on a high cool setting. Climate change is real and it demands a real solution, Bush said. Therefore, I am committed to dedicating all of the technology, all of the brainpower, and all of the resources we need in order to keep America cool and comfortable well into the 21st century. The National Air Conditioner Initiative is expected to be the largest public works project in the nation's history. Because technology capable of creating an air conditioner that can fulfill the cooling needs of a continental land mass does not presently exist, the president estimated that research and development alone will require at least $100 trillion in both federal and private sector funds. The challenge of building an air conditioner for all Americans will be the greatest we have ever faced, Bush said. But we must face it. We must act now to ensure that our children and our children's children can live in a world where they don't get sweaty and have to change their shirts all the time. While Bush's speech left many questions unanswered, such as whether the one-touch cooling settings would be under federal or state jurisdiction, reaction from congressional Democrats and Republicans has been largely favorable. I applaud the administration for finally taking this issue seriously, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. Such a giant apparatus means that Americans from all walks of life, not just the wealthy and privileged, will be able to get relief from the rise in the Earth's surface temperature. And it will create a great many jobs. Just removing and rinsing out the huge filter will require tens of thousands of seasonal laborers. Petrochemical industry leaders voiced early support of the plan, which would stimulate additional exploration and production of oil and gas to satisfy the machine's staggering energy needs. Some fiscal conservatives, however, decry the
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: FDA warns over dangerous products from China while ignoring dangerous products from the U.S.
If you are into conspiracies, perhaps the U.S. government has a purpose in ensuring that China's exports are reduced significantly. I think Bush is worried about them taking over. Kirk McLoren wrote: Since I posted about China I thought US should get equal exposure. I hope you take this to heart as we need you all. You are a very special group of people doing work that otherwise might not happen. If you lose your health you have nothing. FDA warns over dangerous products from China while ignoring dangerous products from the U.S. Apparently it's perfectly okay to poison the American people as long as you're running an influential American corporation. It's all part of the great double standard followed by the Food and Drug Administration: Protect the public, but only if it doesn't harm the profits of powerful American corporations. Friday, June 08, 2007 by: Mike Adams The Food and Drug Administration has been gleefully warning us about the dangers of China-made food and personal care products recently. Why gleefully? Because announcing the discovery of toxic chemicals in products made by other countries (especially a Communist country) allows the FDA to appear as if it's protecting the public without having to tell the truth about the toxic chemicals found in American food and personal care products. Talking about the deadly chemicals and poisons used by American food and personal care product manufacturers is, of course, an activity to be avoided at all costs. It's much easier to point the finger of blame at someone else and imply that U.S. manufacturers of such products would never poison their customers. It's the ultimate art of creating a diversion to prevent people from paying attention to all the toxic chemicals used right here in the USA by our most cherished corporations. Chemicals like sodium nitrite, for example, lead to the creation of extremely toxic cancer-causing chemicals in the human body, yet if you go to the grocery store and start checking ingredients labels, you'll find that nearly every processed meat package in the store lists sodium nitrite as an ingredient (bacon, sausage, pepperoni, sandwich meat, hot dogs, bologna and even the chunks of ham in "Bean Ham" soup). So where is the FDA's urgent warning to Americans that they're eating cancer-causing poisons in American food products? It doesn't exist. Apparently it's perfectly okay to poison the American people as long as you're running an influential American corporation. It's all part of the great double standard followed by the Food and Drug Administration: Protect the public, but only if it doesn't harm the profits of powerful American corporations. The difference between Chinese and American product manufacturers I'm not saying that Chinese food and personal care products don't contain toxic chemicals, by the way. A Chinese businessman will cheat you just as quickly as a U.S. businessman, and if there's a dollar to be saved by replacing a real ingredient with some toxic substitute chemical, you can count on receiving the toxic chemical. The only difference between Chinese products and American products is that the Chinese products will kill you faster. The American products contain poisons that kill you more slowly -- just enough to give you disease symptoms requiring pharmaceutical treatments without actually killing you. These are poisons like hydrogenated oils (heart disease and cancer), high-fructose corn syrup (diabetes and osteoporosis), genetically modified corn (kidney failure), processed sodium (high blood pressure), MSG and yeast extract (obesity, migraines and worse), aspartame (neurological harm), artificial food colors (behavioral disorders), and hundreds of untested chemicals used in cosmetics, body care, laundry and home cleaning products. None of these will kill you outright like a poisoned product from China might, but they'll kill you over time, combining their toxic chemicals in your heart, liver, kidneys and brain, generating mysterious symptoms that your doctor diagnoses as "idiopathic whatever" which means he really has no idea what's going on. (You can learn more about all the toxic effects of food ingredients, by the way, in my book Grocery Warning: http://www.truthpublishing.com/GroceryWarning.html ) So where is the FDA to warn us about all these cancer-causing chemicals in the products made in the USA? The agency is mysteriously silent. It seems completely unable to speak... unless of course it's to tout the latest "miracle" prescription drug that masks all the symptoms caused by the toxic chemicals put into the food in the first place. Did you know that guacamole dips often contain no guacamole? They're made with hydrogenated soybean oil, artificial avocado flavoring, monosodium glutamate and green food coloring made from petrochemicals. Yumm! It's the kind of diet that makes a kid lose his mind, pick up an old
Re: [Biofuel] OOPS! DID VERICHIP HAVE A SENIOR MOMENT?
Thanks for the point of view. And I understand it. It's just that I think that chipping everybody (as daunting as it may be) will happen over time, using scare tactics that your newborn child's safety is at stake. It will take many years. And I think it will have the same application as the spiritual sense, even if that is not what Revelations was referring to. Cheers. -Original Message- Hello John! I know there's a whole industry devoted to scaring people with the MOB, but the concept is used in a spiritual sense and has been in place for quite some time. The Mark of the Beast is written on the right hand (to denote action) or on the forehead (to denote motivation) as a means of identifying those whose actions and attitudes underscore rebellion against God. This represents a literary contrast with the Seal of God (defined in the New Testament as the Holy Spirit), which is only marked on the foreheads, to show those whose attitudes are in harmony with God's will. As a spiritual construct, this has an application in the practical realm--but not with computer chips. Jesus explained that you can tell a tree by its fruit, and in this case, it's merely a matter of examining attitudes. (The fruits of the Spirit include such things as love, joy, gentleness, peace and so forth.) In the application of buying and selling, the same principle applies. What are your motivations? What are your deeds? Do you love God? Do you love your fellow man? Or, is money, greed, selfishness and desire for power the driving force behind your actions? On a practical level, you might try this experiment: Spend a month without buying or selling anything that has been bought or sold with US dollars. If you don't participate in that financial system, it's virtually impossible to survive. (In Greek, the wording translated as cause to be killed is passive. I think that's an important distinction, just as you've pointed out in your post.) There are symbols and Latin phrases (why Latin?) all over the US dollar which, taken in a scriptural context, are either blasphemous or deal with rebellion. All of this emphasis on computer chips misses the point of the text, which is concerned with the spiritual condition of people, not their technology. In addition, I think that a computerized mark is impossible or impractical. For instance, the sheer magnitude of forcing everyone to be marked would require a program on a scale unlike anything humankind has ever seen, and would also require the cooperation of fractious governments. With a population now exceeding 6 billion, and countless people being born and buried every day, it's very difficult to conceive of a means of forcing everybody to participate. This is especially true in certain regions of the world where suspicion of the west and its technology is coupled with growing distrust of the motivation of Christian nations, like the United States. The advocates of computerized MOB scenarios need a one world government in place in order for this to occur, but I've read through and studied every prophecy in the Bible and there is nothing in there about a singular, world government. (In fact, in Daniel it's pretty explicit that the nations will NEVER unify.) Further, the MOB is foisted on everyone by the same power that has two horns like a lamb (that is, it's associated with Christianity), but speaks like a dragon (meaning it's really a Satanic front). This is the same power that calls down fire from heaven in full view of men and has many similarities with the Roman Empire that preceeded it. It's not very hard to figure out what nation is meant by all of this . . . So I wouldn't get too hung up on the actual implementation of the MOB. It's here, now. Getting our lives right with God would solve the vast majority of problems we face--if not all of them--and would end the societal inequities that lie at the root of our conflicts with one another. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] All Terrain Cabin
I seen an episode of Discovery Channel - Daily Planet that showed a similar concept for emergency medical deployment. I folded out in about 90 seconds as an operating room. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:53 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] All Terrain Cabin Thought this might be of interest. http://www.barkbark.ca/projects_atc.html http://www.metronews.ca/uploadedFiles/PDFs/20070208_Ottawa.pdf (go to page 11) The cabin has a composting toilet. There are two large holding tanks for water. The filtration system consists of UV light to kill bacteria and microfilters to pull out sediment. There are plans to add an awning to catch rainwater for the tanks. Energy and heat for the exhibit are provided by a biodiesel generator and by large photovoltaic panels which are also used to recharge batteries. It can house a family of four in 480 square feet. For travel, it compresses into 1/3 that footprint (6 ft x 20 ft - ISO shipping container dimensions). Clearly designed for fair-weather use, but some interesting ideas I think. Deployable emergency housing? No need for grid, compact, portable, can be moved like a shipping container, set up quickly. Put a container garden on the fold out deck and plant something that produces food quickly (radish, leaf lettuce, sprouts, spinach) if climate is favourable. Perhaps supply coldframes or mini-greenhouses if not. Darryl -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ - End forwarded message - -- Darryl McMahon It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's In Your Milk?
Not if you have your own cows and milk them for personal use. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:44 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's In Your Milk? Raw milk, but it's illegal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which taste do you prefer, John? Doug Woodard St. Catharines, ontario On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, John Mullan wrote: I'm not sure what's in U.S. milk, or Canadian milk for that matter. But I live right on the border and often we get groceries in the U.S. for significant savings. But I have to share the fact that the taste of Wegman's milk is significantly different than our Canadian milk yet I'm sure our commercial factory farms do some of the same things. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's In Your Milk?
Well Doug, I prefer the taste of our home grown variety. But likely like anything else, it's the taste one becomes acustomed to. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:37 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's In Your Milk? Which taste do you prefer, John? Doug Woodard St. Catharines, ontario On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, John Mullan wrote: I'm not sure what's in U.S. milk, or Canadian milk for that matter. But I live right on the border and often we get groceries in the U.S. for significant savings. But I have to share the fact that the taste of Wegman's milk is significantly different than our Canadian milk yet I'm sure our commercial factory farms do some of the same things. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
I am not a bible thumper. I do think that much of the bible is a historical accounting described a best they could for the time. The first book, Genesis is rather intriguing. Of course the planet didn't evolve in 5 days before man set foot, but if you were a deity or alien or something, this would have been the best way to describe to more primitive peoples how they got there. What was it that Ezekial was describing? Alien craft? Who knows, but his description is clearly the best he could muster given the lack of more modern descriptions. I also think that today's bible is a collection of accounting that has been edited for specific purposes. Just my take on things. Cheers, John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 4:27 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet? I agree that we should not only present a one sided view of things. Point in case: millions of children are misled every year by secularists on the law of gravity. What about Jesus rising into the sky. Walking on water? Every schoolchild should be ecouraged to go to the roof of the school building and experiment on his or her own to see if they really believe in gravity, instead of giving them such a one sided and scientific view. Of course, soon the only people remaining will be the ones who did believe in gravity. Too bad that global warming can take all of us with it, not just the skeptics. Alternatively, if you want to teach the bible as literal fact, I believe that Tolkien's history of Middle Earth should also presented as literal fact. On 1/13/07, David Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/299253_inconvenient11.html Federal Way schools restrict Gore film by Robert McClure and Lisa Stiffler, seattlepi.com This week in Federal Way schools, it got a lot more inconvenient to show one of the top-grossing documentaries in U.S. history, the global-warming alert An Inconvenient Truth. After a parent who supports the teaching of creationism and opposes sex education complained about the film, the Federal Way School Board on Tuesday placed what it labeled a moratorium on showing the film. The movie consists largely of a computer presentation by former Vice President Al Gore recounting scientists' findings. Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher, said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is. ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD. Hardison's e-mail to the School Board prompted board member David Larson to propose the moratorium Tuesday night. Somebody could say you're killing free speech, and my retort to them would be we're encouraging free speech, said Larson, a lawyer. The beauty of our society is we allow debate. School Board members adopted a three-point policy that says teachers who want to show the movie must ensure that a credible, legitimate opposing view will be presented, that they must get the OK of the principal and the superintendent, and that any teachers who have shown the film must now present an opposing view. The requirement to represent another side follows district policy to represent both sides of a controversial issue, board President Ed Barney said. What is purported in this movie is, 'This is what is happening. Period. That is fact,' Barney said. Students should hear the perspective of global-warming skeptics and then make up their minds, he said. After they do, if they think driving around in cars is going to kill us all, that's fine, that's their choice. Asked whether an alternative explanation for evolution should be presented by teachers, Barney said it would be appropriate to tell students that other beliefs exist. It's only a theory, he said. While the question of climate change has provoked intense argument in political circles in recent years, among scientists its basic tenets have become the subject of an increasingly stronger consensus. In the light of new evidence and taking into account the remaining uncertainties, most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations, states a 2001 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which advises policymakers. Furthermore, it is very likely that the 20th-century warming has contributed significantly to the observed sea level rise, through thermal expansion of seawater and widespread loss of land ice. The basics
Re: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist
My drink of choice used to be Diet C. Artificial sweetners with sodium make you hold water. My intake of Diet C. has been almost entirely replace by nice cold bottled water since June. In that time frame I have lost 40lbs (250 down to 210). That fact alone should speak to the diet factor of artifical sweetners. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kurt Nolte Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:10 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist I personally don't like any of the Artificial sweeteners out there. If you want something sweet, you put sugar in it. If normal table sugar doesn't dissolve well, you go to finely ground confectioner's sugar. This goes for coffee, tea, cookies, cakes, candy; anything that needs sweetening gets real sugar put in it. Maybe there are, maybe there aren't hidden death-agents in the Artificial stuff; all I know is they have all shown to leave a nasty aftertaste that requires consuming incredibly strong-tasting foods to get rid of. I do, however, still drink sodas; everyone needs a vice, after all. I just don't drink any of the diet or low calorie sodas, as they tend to run heavy on the artificials and I'm active enough to burn off calories from the real thing. -Kurt Logan Vilas wrote: Not trying to be too much of a smartass, but 300 million Americans, 187 million annually =623 thousand per an American annually That's a little off somewhere. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:34 PM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: [Biofuel] Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist Splenda Explodes Internally, Says Chemist By Shane Ellison, M.Sc. Copyright 2006C _www.healthmyths.net http://www.healthmyths.net/ http://www.healthmyths.net/ _ NewsWithViews.com 1-11-7 If there were a contest for the best example of total disregard for human life, the victor would be McNeil Nutritionals---makers of Splenda^(TM). Manufacturers of Vioxx^(TM) and Lipitor^(TM) would tie for a very distant second. McNeil Nutritionals is the undisputed drug-pushing champion for disguising their drug Splenda as a sweetener. Regardless of its drug qualities and potential for side effects, McNeil is dead set on putting it on every kitchen table in America. Apparently, Vioxx and Lipitor makers can't stoop so low as to deceptively masquerade their drug as a candy of sort. There is no question that their products are drugs and by definition come with negative side effects. Rather than sell directly to the consumer, these losers have to go through the painful process of using doctors to prescribe their dangerous goods. A keen student in corporate drug dealing, McNeil learned from aspartame and saccharine pushers that if a drug tastes sweet, then let the masses eat it in their cake. First though, you have to create a facade of natural health. They did this using a cute trade name that kind of sounds like splendid and packaged it in pretty colors. Hypnotized, the masses were duped instantly. As unquestionably as a dog humps your leg, millions of diabetics (and non-diabetics) blindly eat sucralose under the trade name Splenda in place of real sugar (sucrose). Splenda was strategically released on April fool's day in 1998. This day is reserved worldwide for hoaxes and practical jokes on friends and family, the aim of which is to embarrass the gullible. McNeil certainly succeeded. The splendid Splenda hoax is costing gullible Americans $187 million annually*^1 *. While many people wonder about the safety of Splenda, they rarely question it. Despite its many unknowns and inherent dangers, Splenda demand has grown faster than its supply. No longer do I have to question my faith in fellow Man. He is not a total idiot, just a gullible one. McNeil jokesters are laughing all the way to the bank. Splenda is not as harmless as McNeil wants you to believe. A mixture of sucralose, maltodextrine, and dextrose (a detrimental simple sugar), each of the not-so-splendid Splenda ingredients has downfalls. Aside from the fact that it really isn't sugar and calorie free, here is one big reason to avoid the deceitful mix . . . think April fool's day: Splenda contains a potential poison---the drug sucralose. This chemical is 600 times sweeter than sugar. To make sucralose, chlorine is used. Chlorine has a split personality. It can be harmless or it can be life threatening. In combo with sodium, chlorine forms a harmless ionic bond to yield table salt. Sucralose makers often highlight this worthless fact to defend its safety. Apparently, they missed the second day of Chemistry 101---the day they teach covalent bonds. When used with carbon, the chlorine atom in sucralose forms a covalent bond. The end result is the historically deadly
Re: [Biofuel] What's In Your Milk?
I'm not sure what's in U.S. milk, or Canadian milk for that matter. But I live right on the border and often we get groceries in the U.S. for significant savings. But I have to share the fact that the taste of Wegman's milk is significantly different than our Canadian milk yet I'm sure our commercial factory farms do some of the same things. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:43 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] What's In Your Milk? http://www.world-wire.com/news/0701030001.html What's In Your Milk? An Exposé of Industry and Government Cover-Up on the DANGERS of the Genetically Engineered (rBGH) Milk You're Drinking CHICAGO, Illinois, January 3, 2007 --/WORLD-WIRE/-- Dr. Samuel S. Epstein, professor emeritus of environmental medicine at the University of Illinois at Chicago School of Public Health and world renowned author, has announced the publication of his new book, What's in Your Milk?, a powerful exposé of the dangers of Monsanto's genetically engineered (rBGH) milk, and the company's no-holds-barred conspiracy to suppress this information. rBGH (recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone) is a genetically engineered, potent variant of the natural growth hormone produced by cows. Manufactured by Monsanto, it is sold to dairy farmers under the trade name POSILAC. Injection of this hormone forces cows to increase their milk production by about 10%. Monsanto has stated that about one third of dairy cows are in herds where the hormone is used. Monsanto, supported by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), insist that rBGH milk is indistinguishable from natural milk, and that it is safe for consumers. This is blatantly false: * rBGH makes cows sick. Monsanto has been forced to admit to about 20 toxic effects, including mastitis, on its Posilac label. * rBGH milk is contaminated by pus, due to the mastitis commonly induced by rBGH, and antibiotics used to treat the mastitis. * rBGH milk is chemically, and nutritionally different than natural milk. * Milk from cows injected with rBGH is contaminated with the hormone, traces of which are absorbed through the gut into the blood. * rBGH milk is supercharged with high levels of a natural growth factor (IGF-1), which is readily absorbed through the gut. * Excess levels of IGF-1 have been incriminated as a cause of breast, colon, and prostate cancers. * IGF-1 blocks natural defense mechanisms against early submicroscopic cancers. rBGH factory farms pose a major threat to the viability of small dairy farms. rBGH enriches Monsanto, while posing dangers, without any benefits, to consumers, especially in view of the current national surplus of milk. Of still greater concern, based on 37 published scientific studies as detailed in the book, excess levels of IGF-1 in rBGH milk pose major risks of breast, colon and prostate cancers. The introduction to What's in Your Milk? by Ben Cohen, Co-founder of Ben Jerry's Ice Cream, with a Foreword by Jeffrey M. Smith, author of the bestseller Seeds of Deception Many prominent experts in the environmental field have endorsed the new book including Congressman John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Democrat, House Judiciary Committee, Mark Achbar, Executive Producer of the multiple prize-winning documentary The Corporation, Ronnie Cummins, National Director, Organic Consumers Association, and Dr. Joseph Mercola, founder of the world's most visited natural health website. The book is a unique resource on rBGH milk. It presents Dr. Epstein's trailblazing scientific publications since 1989, which have played a major role in influencing other nations, including Canada, 24 European nations, Norway, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan to ban rBGH milk. The book also presents: the author's editorials and letters to major newspapers, and correspondence with the FDA, Congressman John Conyers, and other key members of Congress and the Senate. Epstein also details evidence of interlocking conflicts of interest between Monsanto and the White House, the American Medical Association and American Cancer Society. He also details evidence of Monsanto's white collar crime; the suppression and manipulation of information on the veterinary and public health dangers of rBGH milk; and evidence of Monsanto's Hit Squad, which attempted to stifle and discredit him. Of compelling interest is the story behind Fox Television's firing of Jane Akre, a veteran journalist, following her in-depth interview on rBGH with Dr. Epstein, his subsequent day-long deposition by Monsanto on her behalf, her subsequent litigation against Fox, and Fox's successful counter suit. Monsanto's corporate recklessness, compounded by FDA's complicity and refusal to require labeling of rBGH milk, more than justify the rejection of any assurances of its safety. Of further interest is the critical relevance of this information to the ongoing
Re: [Biofuel] City plants save millions in energy costs - OttawaCitizen - 2006.12.22
Well, I guess we Canucks are just slow but not totally stupid. winkwink John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:04 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] City plants save millions in energy costs - OttawaCitizen - 2006.12.22 The Hyperion plant has been doing this for 30 years (LosAngeles) Kirk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
They used to do without any real significant oil back when? Say 1800s? The only difference was the size of the population. That will be the cause of chaos since oil bred the population. I expect I only have 20 years left and with my luck, it will happen before than. Sorry. Just my 2cents rambling. John On 10/19/2006, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No doubt about it, the world runs on oil. No oil, no world, at least as we have known it. The realization of this when gas prices spiked a year snip Yeah...whatever. Everything changes. And, I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll know how to use a knife and bow and arrow by then--or maybe not. Mike DuPree snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FYI - I'm back from Nova Scotia. What a great time!
Can't find your photos. Do you have more info on finding them. Jeff Lyles wrote: Hi, I have posted a few pictures on http://www.frappr.com/c/user/createamap http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr website. I have also posted pictures on the web shots website. After I join frappr, I uploaded a few photos. Photography is a hobby of mine. If you posted any pictures there, I would like to see them. Jeff - Original Message - From: Mike Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 5:06 AM Subject: [Biofuel] FYI - I'm back from Nova Scotia. What a great time! Hi everyone, As someone who never placed much emphasis on the meaning of weddings, believes that a marriage is left to the interpretation of those who decide to make such a commitment and that it should NEVER include or require a government form or record, I conceded on July 15th. Sometimes it's good to pick fights wisely for the sake of maintaining harmony in one's (mostly conservative) family. The good news is that our wedding was a blast! It was an ethnic German (Bavarian) theme and roughly 1/3 of the guests were in traditional garb. That's right Fritz, for the men, that means Lederhosen! Last week, we spent our honeymoon in Baddeck - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and absolutely loved it! I don't know if Bob reported back on his experience in that region but, I was amazed at their effort to conserve and protect nature. We took day trips on the Cabot Trail, hiked, bicycled and Kayaked. We had almost daily sightings of bald eagles and two close encounters with moose. We sailed on a schooner and spotted dolphins, puffins and other wildlife. Most importantly, we tried our best to leave only footprints and take only memories. I'll try to get the pictures up somewhere in case some of you are curious. -Redler ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date: 7/26/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Class Warfare: The Minimum Wage Goes Down
I believe that either economic model (communist or capitalist) is destined to collapse, sooner or later. One of the main factors being greed. Greed is what causes inflation. Companies are driven to make more profit. People need more income to purchase the higher priced items they need AND want (ie; form of greed). In my area, I know many people earning minimum wage (Canada) and even simple one-room apartments tax their ability to have any disposable income. But there are also many companies that would be hard pressed to increase their prices such as to pay significantly more than minimum wage and still have a decent customer base. Add to the picture the coming death of cheap energy and the picture becomes even more bleak. Economic crash and the re-issue of currency has happened before and has to happen again. To survive, eliminate your debt and try desperately to own all your property out-right. Just my two-cents worth. Cheers, John Doug Younker wrote: I just can't recall when, but the following was from an episode of the Religion and Ethics program aired on PBS during a past Congressional debate on the minimum wage. I recall the term used was just wage. Problem is that here in the USA such criteria is labeled communist, instead of Christian. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Class Warfare: The Minimum Wage Goes Down
No problems Michael. It's just the overly simplistic way I see it. It may very well be totally inaccurate and most certainly an over-simplification. And you make a very good regarding participation. Cheers, John Michael Redler wrote: Hi John, I don't mean to be a pain in the ass but, your focus is on company profits, re-issue of currency, and monetary greed - not a common denominator in an explanation on why both capitalist and communist societies would fail. At least for now, it's not an explanation that makes sense to me. More to the point, governments irrespective of the model they follow, fail because citizens do not realize the importance of participation (IMHO). - Redler ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] small oil presses, WVO and sustainability
I thought he said 800 gallons of ethanol per acre. But I don't know if either one can yeild that much. I'd be interested to know. However, Michael, perhaps you need 4 acres and rotate around so you can have everything. I know, wishful thinking. Cheers, John On 4/10/2006, David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: Thanks Jason, Katie and Keith. in between (four year rotation). My interpretation was that if I never wanted to step foot in a gas station again, I would need an acre of land to produce (roughly) 800 gallons of ethanol. I'm curious how you calculate 800 gallons/acre? I'm not doubting it, just thought I'd read about far lower yields of biodiesel feedstocks. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Wal-Mart's Organics Could Shake Up Retail
What I find amazing is the use of the term organic. Absolutely everything that you can grow is organic. A rock is not organic. So in reality they can grow anything and call it organic. When will people smarten up. On 3/27/2006, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hogwash. USDA Organic doesn't MEAN ANYTHING. Keith Addison wrote: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/24/D8GI7S484.html Wal-Mart's Organics Could Shake Up Retail Mar 24 6:17 PM US/Eastern By MARCUS KABEL Associated Press Writer BENTONVILLE, Ark. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is throwing its weight behind organic products, a move that experts say could have the same lasting effect on environmental practices that Wal-Mart has had on prices by forcing suppliers and competitors to keep up. Putting new items on the shelf this year, from organic cotton baby clothes to ocean fish caught in ways that don't harm the environment, is part of a broader green policy launched last year to meet consumer demand, cut costs for things like energy and packaging and burnish a battered reputation. Organic products are one lure for the more affluent shoppers Wal-Mart is trying to woo away from rivals like Target Corp., said Alice Peterson, president of Chicago-based consultancy Syrus Global. A new Supercenter that opened this week in the Dallas suburb of Plano features over 400 organic foods as part of an experiment to see what kinds of products and interior decor can grab the interest of upscale shoppers. Like many big companies, they have figured out it is just good marketing and good reputation building to be in favor of things that Americans are increasingly interested in, Peterson said. Wal-Mart's Lee Scott is not the first chief executive to advocate sustainability, a term for the corporate ethos of doing business in a way that benefits the environment. Industrial giant General Electric Co., for example, last year launched a program called Ecomagination to bring green technologies like wind power to market. What makes Wal-Mart's efforts unique, sustainability experts say, is the retailer's sheer size and the power that gives it in relations with suppliers. Wal-Mart works closely with suppliers to shape their goods, if they want them on the shelves of Wal-Mart's nearly 4,000 U.S. stores and over 2,200 internationally. They have huge potential because it's not just Wal-Mart we're talking about, it's their entire supply chain, said Jeff Erikson, U.S. director of London-based consultancy and research group SustainAbility. The group says it does not do any consulting work for Wal-Mart. Erikson said Wal-Mart could bring the same pressure it has exerted over the years on prices and apply that to pushing manufacturers and competitors to adopt more sustainable business practices and larger organic offerings. We love to see companies like Wal-Mart taking a big step and making pronouncements as they have, because their tentacles are so large, Erikson said. Wal-Mart plans to double its organic grocery offerings in the next month and continue looking for more products to offer in areas such as grocery, apparel, paper and electronics. Stephen Quinn, vice president of marketing, told an analysts' conference this month that Wal-Mart would have 400 organic food items in stores this summer at the Wal-Mart price. Some Wal-Mart critics call the effort just a public relations job. But others say Wal-Mart could make a real difference if the retailer brings a critical mass of organic products to market and pushes enough suppliers to adopt green practices. Sierra Club executive director Carl Pope, who is a board member of the union-backed group Wal-Mart Watch that criticizes the retailer, said it is too soon to tell if Wal-Mart will deliver but that the impact could be good for the environment. I think the direction they've said is a positive direction. The question is, `Are they are going to go there strongly enough?' Pope said. Some of the new items will be seafood caught in the wild. Wal-Mart last month announced a plan to have all its wild-caught fish, which accounts for about a third of seafood sales, certified by the Marine Stewardship Council as caught in a sustainable way. The London-based MSC, founded in 1997 as a venture of the conservation group World Wildlife Fund and global consumer products company Unilever, issues the certificates to let consumers know which fisheries avoid overfishing and use methods that don't damage the ocean environment. Sustainability experts say what makes this program interesting is that Wal-Mart will work with its suppliers to get more fisheries around the globe certified by MSC, instead of just buying up the existing stock of certified fish. Wal-Mart says this means there will be more sustainable fish that will also be available to Wal-Mart's competitors, such as Whole Foods Market, which already sells about 18 MSC certified items, according to the MSC Web site. Wal-Mart plans to offer between 200 and 250 items. The
[Biofuel] Fwd: RE: [12VDC_Power] Our options may become increasingly limited.
It is completely crazy. Sulfur? Everybody uses that. Here in Ontario you can buy it lots from the pharmacy. Chlorates? Potassium Chlorate is used on many livestock farms. Most farm supply houses sell it. Nitrates? You gotta stop fertilizing your yard? Sounds like the agriculture industry is going to fall apart real quick. JOhn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [12VDC_Power] Our options may become increasingly limited. I don't consider this political digression since it has the potential to directly effect the availability of supplies related to our projects. Mike The United States CPSC has initiated criminal legal action against us and other chemical suppliers. In short, the CPSC would like to ban the public from all access to chemicals. This would mean an end to hobbies such as model rocketry, pyrotechnics and of course chemistry. One by one, our freedoms are slowly being taken away from us - this action must be stopped now. Specifically, the CPSC is focusing on certain chemicals and metals at this time. The current CPSC injunction would require: [more] http://www.unitednuclear.com/legalaction.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please don't email the entire list with your unsub request. TNX Yahoo! Groups Links To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please don't email the entire list with your unsub request. TNX Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12VDC_Power/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Plug pulled on renewable energy gurus
There is something VERY wrong with putting roadblocks to research resources. That scares me. Possibly to impede John Q. Public from getting the goods on self-sufficiency (et al). On 2/16/2006, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hm. As well as this, posted on the same day: Burning down the library - Bush Axing Libraries While Pushing for More Research - EPA Set to Close Library Network and Electronic Catalog http://snipurl.com/mm1v All in the name of sound science I suppose. Strange how fossil-friendly sound science so often turns out to be. Best Keith Yeah. I knew several people who got canned there last week. This week I tried calling my former boss from when I worked there and found he had been deleted from the system. My roommate who works with Carol and John mentioned in the article managed to keep his job for this round, although he is taking a month or two of unpaid furlough. The worst thing is that these people will not have too hard of a time getting new jobs -- the PV industry is exploding here. But NREL will have lost all their experienced people, and next year when (if) the budget goes back up as Bush promised, it will take 10 years to rebuild the research programs and train new people. Zeke On 2/15/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Published on 14 Feb 2006 by Denver Post. Archived on 15 Feb 2006. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3506521 Plug pulled on renewable energy gurus by Diane Carman The day Carol Tombari got fired plays in her head like a scene from a cheesy espionage thriller. She arrived at work and was told to appear at a mandatory meeting in 20 minutes. It was there that she learned she was being laid off and that she had five hours to pack and vacate the premises. When she returned to her desk, her computer had been disabled, her phone service cut. She had to cancel an appearance the next day at a regional mayors' caucus. Her presentation on the importance of energy efficiency to local governments was locked in her computer. She was among the disappeared from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, where 31 workers were dismissed seven days after President Bush read the words addicted to oil off the teleprompter and announced yet another Advanced Energy Initiative. It was a week to the day after the State of the Union, Tombari said. The single mother of three with a son in college was given one month's severance pay. I can understand budget cuts. I can understand realigning the mission at NREL. But being treated like a corporate saboteur, that was rough, said Tombari, who has worked in energy policy for more than 25 years. John Thornton, an engineer and 28-year veteran at NREL, is another casualty of the post-State of the Union sweep. He was given until March 31 to get out. You never know with these budgets, said Thornton, who survived an NREL purge during the Reagan administration. Still, the political shenanigans have a crippling impact on research. Projects are abandoned, careers are interrupted, lives are thrown into turmoil. The scientists at NREL have no peer, U.S. Department of Energy spokesman Craig Stevens crowed last week. They also have no job security. Tombari's job was to work with state and local governments to incorporate new technologies into public policies. Before she came to NREL in 1993, she directed the Texas Energy Office for 10 years. I loved my job, she said. Ideally, if I had the money, I would do what I was doing at NREL for free. Those of us who worked at NREL had a real passion for the technology. It's technology so marginalized few Americans even realize it exists. Our current institutions and processes are stacked against emerging energy technologies, Tombari said. Just look at the decades-old techniques available for saving energy in lighting, heating and manufacturing. If they were adopted, Tombari said, they would be virtual power plants, creating enormous volumes of energy by reclaiming what is wasted. Or just look at the collapse of the U.S. auto industry, while Toyota devours market share with its hot hybrids. Ironically, Tombari said, A lot of the hybrid technology was developed right here at NREL - and ignored. Detroit automakers knew how to build fuel-efficient cars; they simply chose not to. As a result, they ceded the technology - and the market - to the Japanese. It's really astounding that the public knows as little as it does about the work that goes on at NREL, said Tombari. I mean, the research is great, but unless it gets into the marketplace, it's a waste. Despite our lack of appreciation for NREL, many of its innovations will continue to find their way into the international marketplace. With high oil and gas prices, there's too much money to be made in alternative energy technologies to stop them. The industry is
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Yes, on behalf of government agencies and universities. The original internet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert luis rabello Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet John Mullan wrote: I don't like the flimsy excuse give by that Telecom guy why should they use our pipes for free. Wasn't all of that infrastructure built on the backs of rate payers anyway? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I don't like the flimsy excuse give by that Telecom guy why should they use our pipes for free. Does anybody really think that they are not charging somebody for the use of their fibers and wires? Obviously they just want more for it. If my internet starts getting any more expensive, I will opt out of so many things. These mail lists will get pruned and stick with daily digests. If companies like the Walmarts of the world don't compensate for me looking/shopping on their site, then I won't pay extra to do it. The whole concept stinks. My 2 cents John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 12:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet Seems to me I've been reading stories like this for at least 10 years. It keeps upping the ante each time but nothing much seems to happen. Except that the Internet keeps growing and spreading and getting faster and better and ever more firmly rooted in all our societies. How much of this stuff could they make stick without running afoul of international agreements or stirring up international opposition? Let alone world opposition? Isn't it all just a hacker-magnet anyway? Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?) Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush's state of the Union speech
OK. There are probably rebuttals further in this thread, and I didn't open them up, but Something tells me that he's finally accepting the final figures for peak oil. Or finally admitting there is a problem. In any case, as long as the 22% is spent wisely this has got to be a good thing. I hope our (Canadian) government is listening. Cheers, John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:19 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Bush's state of the Union speech Breakthroughs on this and other new technologies will help us reach another great goal: to replace more than 75 percent of our oil imports from the Middle East by 2025. (Applause.) By applying the talent and technology of America, this country can dramatically improve our environment, move beyond a petroleum-based economy, and make our dependence on Middle Eastern oil a thing of the past. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Canada gone really neo-con
I hear ya. My thought is that voting based solely on the local candidate doesn't result in the best majority party. But I do understand the merits. John Kenji James Fuse wrote: I vote for who I think would do the best job. My local Green candidate is a bit of a jerk, has no experience, and is an economist (I'm biased against that kind of shamanism). I wanted to vote green party because I agree with the principle that the environment is the most important issue, but... On Fri, 27 Jan 2006, John Mullan wrote: Thanks Darryl! I had to read quite a ways but was reallying hoping you would touch on the Green Party. If everyone that voted "against" the Party they didn't want in had put their vote to Green, it would have been a landslide. I really wish more of us Canadians voted with their head. Cheers Darryl McMahon wrote: Personally, having worked on the Green Party campaign this election with a woman I considered a really solid candidate, I am quite disappointed with the outcome for an environmental agenda in this country. The Darryl McMahon ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Canada gone really neo-con
Thanks Darryl! I had to read quite a ways but was reallying hoping you would touch on the Green Party. If everyone that voted against the Party they didn't want in had put their vote to Green, it would have been a landslide. I really wish more of us Canadians voted with their head. Cheers Darryl McMahon wrote: Personally, having worked on the Green Party campaign this election with a woman I considered a really solid candidate, I am quite disappointed with the outcome for an environmental agenda in this country. The Darryl McMahon ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Canada gone really neo-con
I think it begins with Jose, can you see? On 1/26/2006, Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Canada is about to become a provincial territory of the Empire of the USA, what with the newly elected reactionary and neo-con Conservative party, led by homophobe and misogynist Stephen Harper. snip Can any of you send me the words to the Star-Spangled Banner? I wanna become a good American before it's too late... Kanuck Kenji ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Appropriate Technologies Can Benefit Anyone
Well, I can believe that the source was junk email. But I have no trouble believing (as a typical scenario) that some significant effort went into making a pen that will work under all those conditions when a pencil would have done nicely. But then, that would not have opened up yet another for us capitalist pigs! (no, I'm not a communist, just a lame joker). John On 1/24/2006, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis, After thinking about it, my conclusion is that he received the information as chain mail. I try my best to keep that crap from getting around but had a lapse in judgment that day. Luckily, there are like-minded people in this forum who caught my mistake. Mike *When NASA first started sending up astronauts, they quickly discovered that ball-point pens would not work in zero gravity. To combat this problem, NASA scientists spent a decade and $12 billion developing a pen that writes in zero gravity, upside-down, on almost any surface including glass and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 C. The Russians used a pencil. Your taxes are due again--enjoy paying** **them. * ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] considering a purchase of a diesel home generator, input appreciated
I built a similar one (gas not diesel). Picture: http://www.mullan.ca/images/gen_2a.jpg There is now a 1800W inverter bolted to the right side (not shown). The battery is not the sole storage device. I clamp on my battery pack deep cycles to this battery to charge them up and/or to support a heavier draw on the large inverter. Picture: http://www.mullan.ca/images/batt_out_small.jpg Comes with it's own connected inverters. This currently works for my needs, expanding as I can. John On 1/24/2006, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd check out homepower.com Especially their older articles (they've become much less techy over the years as the target audience has changed). For DC generators, check out backwoodssolar.com -- their kit uses a gas engine, but could easily be used with a small diesel engine too. I see the engines on ebay occasionally. Most of the inverters also allow you to use an AC generator to charge the batteries, but it is often more expensive for a diesel AC generator than a DC generator. On 1/24/06, Mark Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After some consideration, we are going to look at smaller system options. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] considering a purchase of a diesel home generator, input appreciated
I have thought about a Lister type and hope to get one in the future. I love their specs AND they can be fitted to provide heat as well as power. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of james demer Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 7:03 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] considering a purchase of a diesel home generator,input appreciated My friend picked up a Listeroid lister (Indian made lister) 12hp and a 7.5kw generator. It cost him less than 2 grand new. It is great for a few reasons; it has a 24/7 duty cycle, it runs at 600 rpm (muffled properly it is quiet), it runs on veggie oil, and it looks cool. James Demer On 1/24/06, John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I built a similar one (gas not diesel). Picture: http://www.mullan.ca/images/gen_2a.jpg There is now a 1800W inverter bolted to the right side (not shown). The battery is not the sole storage device. I clamp on my battery pack deep cycles to this battery to charge them up and/or to support a heavier draw on the large inverter. Picture: http://www.mullan.ca/images/batt_out_small.jpg Comes with it's own connected inverters. This currently works for my needs, expanding as I can. John On 1/24/2006, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd check out homepower.com Especially their older articles (they've become much less techy over the years as the target audience has changed). For DC generators, check out backwoodssolar.com -- their kit uses a gas engine, but could easily be used with a small diesel engine too. I see the engines on ebay occasionally. Most of the inverters also allow you to use an AC generator to charge the batteries, but it is often more expensive for a diesel AC generator than a DC generator. On 1/24/06, Mark Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After some consideration, we are going to look at smaller system options. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] organic PV's absorb from near infared frequencies
I've heard a few stories the past 6-12 months on these new, cheaper, heaven sent technologies for PV. Hopefully they come sooner than later and not disappear like a lot of new cancer cures that seem to disappear. My 2 cents. John AltEnergyNetwork wrote: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/003211.html Organic Photovoltaics Absorb From Near Infrared Frequencies A research group has developed organic nanostructures photovoltaics that can absorb photons near the infrared frequency. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What became of hydrogen
i have heard about using something like algae for hydrogren production. not sure what supplimental engery would be consumed maintaining the algae. but it sounds interesting On 10/31/2005, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 30, 2005, at 11:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a biofuel email a while back about what happened to the people who had invented inexpensive ways to get hydrogen energy from water. If there IS an inexpensive energy source to extract H2 from H20, it would be better to use it directly to produce electricity or heat, and forget about the H2. So much energy (and entropy) were already lost in making the H20 (think of it as hydrogen ash), its best to leave the water in that state. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Killing animals- graphic was Re: New question on oilseed crops and ley farming
Title: Re: [Biofuel] Killing animals- graphic was Re: New question on oil seed crops and ley farming That's beautiful Kim! The perfect example (well, pretty much) of nature in balance. By removing any number of links in the chain, it becomes unbalanced. I love it. Kill what's necessary for survival only. John From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgDate: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:42:14 -0500To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Killing animals- graphic was Re: New question on oil seed crops and ley farming We do not kill anything that we have no need to kill. If a snake is a pest, we change our routine to pick up the eggs earlier and the snake goes and finds other things to eat. We have found that the snakes keep the mice and rat population down, so we live with the snakes. We have no children on the premises, ever. We have even found a use for the fire ants, so unless they are dinning on us, we don't kill them either. The one exception is cockroaches in the house, and I am sorry, but I can't stand them. We changed to this standard of not killing anything about 10 years ago and it has worked well for us. My husband does occasionally forget and kills a few grasshoppers, but by never killing the spiders, they have not been as much of a problem as they were.Bright Blessings,Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] United States Orders Military Redeployments
I think that it's possible the story is a hoax (some civilians would have noticed the re-deployment) but some of the things mentioned may just happen (sooner or later). The only question is when. Yellowstone will eventually blow, fantastic earthquakes will eventually happen. Who wants to start a group poll on pegging the date/time? Cheers, John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:49 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] United States Orders Military Redeployments This sounds weird alright. I'm leaning toward a hoax as well. Anytime I hear something about Russian scientists... I googled New Madrid fault, found http://quake.ualr.edu/public/nmfz.htm What's weird is, I keep hearing new stuff everyday in this group. My ignorance does not amuse me. I may have heard of this fault (location) but I didn't know or recall the name. We rarely have tremors here in Northern New Mexico but we had a pretty good ground shake during the Summer. I left Southern California after the big quake in 1971, it scared the crap out of me. Well, that and Uncle Sam asked me to attend the party in Viet Nam. Between the two events I was feeling pretty fragile. Mother Nature can react badly to human nature it seems. Or did I detect this paranoid idea from this conspiracy theory message? Brian Rodgers P.S. I managed to stay out of the uniform and never went back to California either. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Double wall heat exchange - Solar Hot Water Heater
Very nice. Please share your results during your progress. Cheers On 9/25/2005, Ken Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I went to the PA Energy Fest yesterday and talked to experienced folks there as well. I got some ideas how to incorporate some the concepts mentioned in this thread and also some others.. I'm going to experiment on a smaller scale and design my heat exchange accordingly. Thanks again for the input, Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Tadgerdevice
I'm think the other side of the story may be that they, like many large corporations, will actually talk down to potential customers, or in language the company believes will be best understood. Whether reducing viscosity or not being the original purpose, more of the non-initiated general public more likely understands it. My 2cents (like always). John On 9/25/2005, Kevin Bond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fritz, The answer to your first question is no I didn't. However it's your second question that I'm responding to. According to the link you provided, it states that it will work with biodiesel. I don't know if you really didn't look at the site or were simply trolling. As to the effacy of the device, I question it based on the statement [Biodiesel] is produced through a process which lowers the viscosity of vegetable oils, such as canola oil, allowing them to be burned in existing diesel engines without modification found under the biodiesel link on the site. Any one who has done at least a little research into the biodiesel conversion process is aware that it removes glycerin from the wvo and converts the oil into esters. Viscosity reduction may be a by product but is not why the process is done. This tells me that the company, at best, doesn't really know what it is talking about, and at worst, could be simply a scam. Regardless, knowledge is power and we could all benefit if when you post to the site, you've done some research before posting such a question. Kevin Fritz Friesinger wrote: Hallo @ all, did anyone of you know about this Tadgerdevice to enhance burning of Fuel etc.? www.tadgergroup.com http://www.tadgergroup.com would this device work with Biofuel to? thanks for your input Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Double wall heat exchange - Solar Hot Water Heater
I know Rheem makes (or made) a domestic HW tank that had an internal heat exchange coil. Presumably made for solar heat. I was examining it a while back. However, being in Canada the Canadian branch did not carry it. I have seen others build their own exchangers using solid copper pipe, utilizing reducers to actually position smaller diameter pipe inside the larger diameter pipe. The reducers were installed backwards such that the small end pointed into the larger pipe. I may have the picture files (assuming I saved them). If interested I'll try to locate them. John On 9/24/2005, Ken Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Sorry for the long subject line but, I thought it may aid in archive searches... Is there a home remedy to creating a double wall heat exchange? I have contemplated buying two sizes of copper tubing, inserting the smaller inside the larger and bending the two simultaneously. I could see how the inner tubing might kink or flatten out but, I think that would be unlikely unless I tried to bend too tight of a radius. Is there a better home-builder solution? Perhaps there is an affordable storage tank commercially available that makes building a backyard heat exchange mute anyway.? I'm going to need to come up with a storage tank anyway. I understand the theoretical pros/cons to internal and external heat exchanges but, what are the real-world practical differences? Thanks a bunch, Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming
IMHO, the difference in the pictures are a good evidence of cause of the warming. But also, I don't think that a natural cycle would account for this. Even over 100 years. Good old Mother Earth takes thousands of years to go through these cycles and this one is happening a little too fast. Again, my 2cents. John -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jerry EyersSent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:00 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming Hmm... I can't reach them today either. Just go to any nasa sight, and search for apollo pictures of the earth, then search for space shuttle pictures of the earth. Jerry ---Original Message--- From: des Date: 09/22/05 10:51:36 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] There's no proof of global warming I'm still trying to get to the sites listed in this post.is everyone else able to get to them?Just trying to go to http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/ times out. doug swanson Jerry Eyers wrote: What did the photos show? In the late 1960's, it was a beautiful blue sphere, clear atmoshpere, very nice. Now, there is a smokey white smudge over everything. There is no nice, clean, blue ball anymore, just a smokey, murkey haze all the time. Compare this picture (apollo 7 docking with satellite): http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=trueselections=AS7browsepage=Gohitsperpage=20pageno=1photoId=AS07-03-1531 http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=trueselections=AS7browsepage=Gohitsperpage=20pageno=1photoId=AS07-03-1531 With this picture (space shuttle docking with satellite): http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=trueselections=STS77browsepage=Gohitsperpage=10pageno=3photoId=s77e5069 http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/fullimage.jsp?searchpage=trueselections=STS77browsepage=Gohitsperpage=10pageno=3photoId=s77e5069 And look at the earth in the background. Jerry ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- All generalizations are false.Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/106 - Release Date: 9/19/2005 . ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Being Canadian myself (eh!) I have already accepted the fact that we are not a collection of provinces and territories. Rather, we are 13 states. What chance in hell would we ever have of defending against the good old U.S. of A. Don't get me wrong. I don't ever want our 2 countries to EVER have a relationship that would necessitate such defence. I'm just merely pointing out that we are the younger brother looking up to the big brother for protection against bullies, even if we have the occassional sibling spats. Our forces are only a token and the troops are an additional source for our big brother to draw from. IMHO. Cheers, John On 9/6/2005, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're assuming Canada has the bucks to replace lost aircraft. Rather a naive assumption. LOL. The Canadian military is little more than a token peace keeping force. I come from a family with a long history of military service and I hate to say it and I hope I am not offending anyone of Canadian military but our forces are a joke for a country of this size and most of the serious equipment is either obsolete or heading that way because we can't afford the big time. The last time there was a serious mobilization effort, we had to buy back combat uniforms from military surplus outlets (at a premium what a laugh) because there weren't enough for everyone! Sure we have some quite sophisticated stuff but not nearly enough of it. It is one thing to show up at the scene of a fire (started by the US of course) and set up camp with a bunch of flashy stuff and some troops. It may even have the look of a credible fighting force but it is quite another story to hold the longest undefended border in the world should it one day require defending. Hell we can barely afford to keep our social programs afloat never mind dealing with attrition while trying to defend our natural resources against US agression. Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no disrespect joe, but but you're assuming here that a given government wouldn't replace the lost aircraft. rather a naive notion. high attrition conflicts occur precisely because the opposing governments are determined to carry on fighting despite the losses. -chris b. In a message dated 8/30/05 10:14:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Except the loss of a pilot is most likely accompanied by the loss of an aircraft so when they are all gone what good does it do to have a bunch of trained pilots standing around with nothing to fly?? Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] How New Orleans Was Lost
Hopefully we can keep this discussion civilized, Mike, but I wouldn't consider Hakan to be whining. Human nature often takes the stance what is good for me is fair. What is not good for me is not fair. If the Iraqis were over here promising to capture Bush, and did so, would you feel the same? A couple decades ago I used to believe that what happened in the Eastern Hemisphere is fine, just keep it over there. And what happened on this side is fine, just keep it here. Nobody should impress their own values and practices on another. But these days, everything seems to have global ramifications. Global warmning, Peak Oil. So I can see that folks on the eastern side of the pond get irritated when the westerners use more than then their fair share of fossil fuels and pollute the globe more than any others? Should be force the rest of the planet to suffer for our glutteny? My two cents. Have at as you will. Cheers, John On 9/2/2005, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whine whine. At least he caught Osama Bin Laden, just like he promised. Hakan Falk wrote: Taryn, You must admit that he killed many more in Iraq for the money, he is responsible for those death also, maybe he call that efficiency instead. More killed for the money. I can guarantee that the pictures of devastated people that we now see from Orleans, have been going on for many years in Iraq. So it is not only Bush fault, he only raised the bar and achieved much more in shorter time frame. When media show the desperation among the Iraqi people, it is not many who cares, maybe Orleans will create more of compassion for the country that US occupy. The homes that are destroyed and people killed in Iraq, are 100's times more than Orleans. Hakan At 08:38 02/09/2005, you wrote: Wow, nice catch Bede, Fits right in with is there blame? I just love to blame stuff on Bush and his cronies. Except...I'm not sure that all the kings men could have put Orleans together again. Certainly, having pissed away the country's emergency resources, Bush is responsible for many of the deaths in La and Ms. Kinda like stupid kids who empty the fire extinguishers in school. But I think Katrina, and years of head-in-the-sand development is what drowned Orleans. taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:16 PM, Bede wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10062.htm How New Orleans Was Lost By Paul Craig Roberts 09/01/05 Antiwar -- -- Chalk up the city of New Orleans as a cost of Bush's Iraq war. There were not enough helicopters to repair the breached levees and rescue people trapped by rising water. Nor are there enough Louisiana National Guardsmen available to help with rescue efforts and to patrol against looting. The situation is the same in Mississippi. The National Guard and helicopters are off on a fool's mission in Iraq. The National Guard is in Iraq because fanatical neoconservatives in the Bush administration were determined to invade the Middle East and because incompetent Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld refused to listen to the generals, who told him there were not enough regular troops available to do the job. After the invasion, the arrogant Rumsfeld found out that the generals were right. The National Guard was called up to fill in the gaping gaps. Now the Guardsmen, trapped in the Iraqi quagmire, are watching on TV the families they left behind trapped by rising waters and wondering if the floating bodies are family members. None know where their dislocated families are, but, shades of Fallujah, they do see their destroyed homes. The mayor of New Orleans was counting on helicopters to put in place massive sandbags to repair the levee. However, someone called the few helicopters away to rescue people from rooftops. The rising water overwhelmed the massive pumping stations, and New Orleans disappeared under deep water. What a terrible casualty of the Iraqi war one of our oldest and most beautiful cities, a famous city, a historic city. Distracted by its phony war on terrorism, the U.S. government had made no preparations in the event Hurricane Katrina brought catastrophe to New Orleans. No contingency plan existed. Only now after the disaster are FEMA and the Corps of Engineers trying to assemble the material and equipment to save New Orleans from the fate of Atlantis. Even worse, articles in the New Orleans Times-Picayune and public statements by emergency management chiefs in New Orleans make it clear that the Bush administration slashed the funding for the Corps of Engineers' projects to strengthen and raise the New Orleans levees and diverted the money to the Iraq war. Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, told the New Orleans Times-Picayune (June 8, 2004): It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic
But what are you going to burn to attain high enough temperatures to break down the plastics so you can get more fuel to process more plastics? On 8/28/2005, Andy Karpay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If my memory serves me right, biodiesel from plastic is neither bio nor diesel The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere. High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and then gas. The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of methane (perhaps more). Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily substance. I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a diesel fuel. It has many btu's in it too. AK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: pocket bike USD85.00 (hot sale)
Hell, I'm 44 and would love to try one. Too bad there isn't any reasonable place to ride one around here. Hmmm, maybe I should pick up a few acres outside of town -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:51 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: pocket bike USD85.00 (hot sale) i'd be curious to know more (specs, pics) about any scooters they have. -chris b. Hi Chris Not really scooters, little motorbikes, though they call them scooters, laws I suppose. If they're anything like these you can see why kids would go for them: http://www.cyphergames.com/49damx3pobi.html Anyway, write and ask: Scincy.Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] US Ethanol fuel savings
Ethanol production is sustainable. I think these expert guys miss the boat. When there IS NOT DINO FUEL, what choices do we have? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Ethanol fuel savings Hello Bill I've been curious about the topic of Ethanol and whether or not it saves, or could save, on fossil fuel use ever since I heard a radio talk show host in the San Francisco Bay Area, Dr Bill Wattenburg, claim that the use of Ethanol is basically a scam. ... and expert is a dirty word in some circles. That's Patzek, the Pimentel second team, he took his lead from Pimentel. We discussed it at the time and found it, and him, wanting. He has many of the same holes in him as Pimentel does and others besides. When you put it in focus it's crap. Eg: Patzek's quite right about the large amounts of fossil-fuels used in the production of maize and wheat - industrialized monocrops of maize and wheat, that is. But it says long-term sustainability is one of his research interests, so he ought to know that industrialized monocrops aren't the only option. Maize and wheat can be and are sustainably and efficiently produced with little or no fossil-fuel inputs. Anyway, maize and wheat are not the ideal crops for ethanol production. But industrialized monocrops of maize and wheat are the ideal crops for ethanol production if you happen to be Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, or Cargill. What's this got to do with farm-scale or small-scale community-level ethanol production from whatever range of feedstocks is locally available? - or more likely general biofuels production, not just ethanol? Nothing at all. So much for Big Ethanol. Big Soy - er, sorry, Big Biodiesel won't be too different. What puzzles me about all this is that it depends on high and probably increasing use of the very resource it's supposed to be replacing, a resource that's running out, which is the rationale for the biofuels in the first place. Am I missing something here? :-/ The whole thread is in a clickable table at the top of the message in the url above, give it a good read. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30146/1 2003-12-02 [biofuel] Expert Pans Ethanol (There's a message from esbuck there, who turned out to be an industry/Wise Use shill.) See also: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html Is ethanol energy-efficient? Ethanol under fire As well as: http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/ag/sto ry/data/agNews_050328crETHANOL.xmlcatref=ag1001 New study confronts old thinking on ethanol's net energy value 3/28/2005, 2:49 PM CST Ethanol generates 35% more energy than it takes to produce, according to a recent study by Argonne National Laboratory conducted by Michael Wang. The finding goes against a belief among many that ethanol production uses more energy than it creates. [more] And this too, while we're at it: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30101/ Brazil Ethanol Dual Fuel Cars http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30071/ Brazil Ethanol http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30100/ Brazil Ethanol Anhydrous ? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30103/ Brazil Ethanol Biodiesel http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30102/ Brazil Ethanol Hydrous Engines This last one is a Reuters article, good piece. Have a look at what India's doing with ethanol (and other biofuels) these days. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/34917/1 Best wishes Keith I found an online report put out by UC Berkeley on the subject: http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/06/05_ethanol.shtml Here are the relevant portions: When calculating the net energy loss, Patzek and his students took into account the energy equivalent contained within one bushel of corn. According to the report, it takes a total of 0.87 gallons of gasoline equivalent to grow one bushel of corn, which itself contains 3.17 gallons of gasoline equivalent energy. That calculation includes the fossil energy expended from the use of fertilizer, pesticides, machinery, irrigation and other inputs in corn production. After the corn is produced, it then takes another 0.89 gallons of gasoline equivalent to ferment and distill one bushel of corn into 2.66 gallons of ethanol, according to the report. In addition, ethanol does not pack as much energy as gasoline because of its lower heating value. The paper points out that the energy of 2.66 gallons of ethanol is equivalent to 1.74 gallons of gasoline. In other words, the energy input of 4.93 gallons of gasoline equivalent leads to an energy output of 1.74 gallons of gasoline equivalent, or a net energy loss of 65 percent. So lets condense it down: 2.66 gallons of ethanol, obtained from one bushel of corn, is the energy equivalent of 1.74 gallons of gasoline 0.87 gallons of gasoline equivalent are used to
RE: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia
Thanks Mary Lynn. This sort of adds credence to what I had said. Culling the deer population is not Nature balancing things out. But the rebound in births is. The world population is, at least in my opinion, un-naturally high. We have cheated the natural evolution and survival of the fittest. As we lose our ability to cheat this natural order, population will decline. One of my theories suggest that because we cheat the Natural Selection process, we see more birth defects and other deficiencies and it gets perpetuated. If, on our decline we become more dependant on ourselves (farming, hunting, gathering) we would (over decades/centuries) become, on the whole, healthier. I know, I'm rambling again. I just love the ability to share the thoughts spewing from my noodle. Cheers. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marylynn Schmidt Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia One of those facts that kind of stand out there. Population growth is according to the available food source. It's always seemed strange that (at least here in USA-NJ) we see signs advertising the sale of Deer Feed .. and the accepted reason for hunting deer, other than the sport, is for population control .. and after every culling the deer population doubles and/or triples because all the females give birth to twins or triples. Equally, we have groups striving for population control .. counties sterilizing their citizens .. and groups collecting food and money under the banner of FEED THE CHILDREN. I take no stand on this issue .. I just find it .. strange. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:47:00 -0500 Excluding the global warming thing, the end of fossil fuel will, I believe, cause a die-off of sorts. Overall production and delivery of food won't quite keep up to todays rate. And there will be those that cannot cope without plastic this-and-that. Can't cope with or figure out alternatives. Family sizes will shrink. I think then that world population will start a decline. Hence, a so-called die-off. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia Hello Rob The film is not predicting die-off, it is predicting/describing a probable coming change. I wasn't talking about the film, and this below was a quote from a previous message: Are they starving? No. This has been going on for quite a while now, but nobody seems to have noticed. Or very few anyway. So much for die-off at the end of Big Oil. This time round, it was quoted as part of a comment on another film, Yank Tanks, mentioned by Kirk. The whole message is here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050221/006287.html [Biofuel] End of Suburbia I said at the end: Hm, fancy that - no massive die-off as predicted by the oil addicts when cold turkey day finally comes round. Whether or not The End of Suburbia mentions die-off, many other people do in connection with Oil depletion and the collapse of the American Dream, including here, recently, and also off-list. It's nonsense, as the film Yank Tanks apparently indicates, as well as what I was saying about food supply in Cuba. As you say, more sensible behaviour will simply become unavoidable. Perhaps above all else, humans as a species are good at adapting, and adapt we will. Meanwhile, so many of the people who talk about a massive die-off with the end of (cheap) oil are still quibbling about or denying global warming, caused mainly by cheap oil (and coal), which really does threaten a massive die-off. Apart from the insurance estimates I posted yesterday (see http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050221/006268.html), there's this, for instance: Suffering progress Rising global temperatures will result in 290 million more cases of malaria worldwide About 2.5 million premature deaths will occur every year in India due to air emissions Asthma, diarrhoea, dengue, cancer, malnutrition will burden public health Climate change is bad news for global human health. [more] CSE- Health Environment Newsletter March-April 2003 http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/26715/ And much besides. :-( Regards Keith As I assume (yikes! ..pardon) most of us agree, long over due changes such as organic farming, and resource conservation will simply become unavoidable. I
RE: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia
Excluding the global warming thing, the end of fossil fuel will, I believe, cause a die-off of sorts. Overall production and delivery of food won't quite keep up to todays rate. And there will be those that cannot cope without plastic this-and-that. Can't cope with or figure out alternatives. Family sizes will shrink. I think then that world population will start a decline. Hence, a so-called die-off. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia Hello Rob The film is not predicting die-off, it is predicting/describing a probable coming change. I wasn't talking about the film, and this below was a quote from a previous message: Are they starving? No. This has been going on for quite a while now, but nobody seems to have noticed. Or very few anyway. So much for die-off at the end of Big Oil. This time round, it was quoted as part of a comment on another film, Yank Tanks, mentioned by Kirk. The whole message is here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050221/006287.html [Biofuel] End of Suburbia I said at the end: Hm, fancy that - no massive die-off as predicted by the oil addicts when cold turkey day finally comes round. Whether or not The End of Suburbia mentions die-off, many other people do in connection with Oil depletion and the collapse of the American Dream, including here, recently, and also off-list. It's nonsense, as the film Yank Tanks apparently indicates, as well as what I was saying about food supply in Cuba. As you say, more sensible behaviour will simply become unavoidable. Perhaps above all else, humans as a species are good at adapting, and adapt we will. Meanwhile, so many of the people who talk about a massive die-off with the end of (cheap) oil are still quibbling about or denying global warming, caused mainly by cheap oil (and coal), which really does threaten a massive die-off. Apart from the insurance estimates I posted yesterday (see http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050221/006268.html), there's this, for instance: Suffering progress Rising global temperatures will result in 290 million more cases of malaria worldwide About 2.5 million premature deaths will occur every year in India due to air emissions Asthma, diarrhoea, dengue, cancer, malnutrition will burden public health Climate change is bad news for global human health. [more] CSE- Health Environment Newsletter March-April 2003 http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/26715/ And much besides. :-( Regards Keith As I assume (yikes! ..pardon) most of us agree, long over due changes such as organic farming, and resource conservation will simply become unavoidable. I guess another reason I like the film is simply because it exists at all. While it may not address every aspect, consequence, or possibility, this is the first film I have come across that even breeches the issue, and really questions the sustainability of suburban America. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Canadian Government to Unleash Terminator
I don't get it. Messing this much with nature is definitely NOT a good thing. Nature is very capable of fighting back. We have spent millenia evolving with the natural food. Can anyone say for certain that genetically modified food will not affect the animals of this planet (especially us) in the very long term? Terminator seeds, not matter how hard anyone tries, will spread itself. Nature will see to it. Eventually, we will end up with a years harvest that NOBODY can replant. Including the commercial asses that think they are monopolizing. Where does that leave us AND them? We'll die off of starvation and, in another couple millenia, nature will correct itself. No amount of argument to the contrary can convince me otherwise. Nobody has a century of genetic engineering data to prove that it won't or can't happen. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Legal Eagle Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 10:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Canadian Government to Unleash Terminator G'day Mike; - Original Message - From: Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Canadian Government to Unleash Terminator Looks like I owe you an apology Luc...This is pretty hard core truth about your own country. Guess I didn't think you had it in you. Obviously, I was wrong. My education continues. Ah, but just because I don't feel all that crash hot about what the US is up to doesn't mean that I think that Canada's position on certain things isn't revolting. I am not a nationalist flag waver. If anything I believe I relate more to Keith's man-without-a-country scenario. I was born here but that was a long time ago and I have travelled and lived elsewhere quite a bit. Canada has made a mockery of itself in both cases I mentioned, not just this one. But where, except Canada, can you have a constitution that rests upon a thing called the notwithstanding clause ? You have all these constitutional rights up to the point where the government thinks it stands in the way of their program and then they pull out the notwithstanding clause and wipe out those so-called rights for a five year period, renewable by a vote. Canada's citizens have governmental permissions, not rights, even if the Constitution says otherwise; except for the notwithstanding clause which is always there hanging over their heads. This is why they can get away with stuff like holding a man in solitary for two years having not commited any crime and having posed no threat to no one, except perhaps by unpopular beliefs that rub a certain visble minority the wrong way. Wonder what they have to hide where they need the courts and laws to stop any question of their version of things ever being examined eh? Not the behaviour of innocent people by any stretch eh? Where else except a dictatorship-ruled demagogery do you see this stuff? Two ministers get together and sign off, in secret, to declare that a guy is a security risk then this guy is kidnapped from a foreign country, brought to Canada and jailed. The so-called judge in the case is so biased that to call the hearings a kangaroo court would be an insult to kangaroos.Lovely creatures kangaroos,just don;t get them pissed. Secret hearings with secret testimony which the defence has no right to, no cross, no nothing. Sounds odd eh? Canada ? Yup ! Still on going too. And the supreme court says this is all OK and constitutional. What a croc eh? Canada,our home and native land, we stand on guard for thee, Ha! Unless they mean that it is other people that will be doing the standing cause they haven't the courage to get off their knees groveling to special interests. So there, I have had my piece of Canada's butt too. Injustice knows no borders, neither does outrage. Luc I have checked all the local news sources around here and as I'm sure you can guess, not a one of them has any mention of this. I'm sure they wouldn't have even been aware of it either, wouldn't that is had you, and, by extension, I not made them aware of it. Will I see any mention of it in any of our local papers? I doubt it. But if I do, I'll either post a link to it, or take a pic and post a link to that. Anyone can check it out that way, or not. To me, this kind of cause and effect is both exhilarating,and frustrating. But in the end, whether the information gets disseminated, or not, they knew about it. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Biofuel] Canadian Government to Unleash Terminator
I agree Luc. But one of my points is also the fact that genetically modified food may genetically modify us. That, as well as going hungry, scares me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Legal Eagle Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 7:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Canadian Government to Unleash Terminator G'day John; - Original Message - From: John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 6:36 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Canadian Government to Unleash Terminator I don't get it. Messing this much with nature is definitely NOT a good thing. Nature is very capable of fighting back. We have spent millenia evolving with the natural food. Can anyone say for certain that genetically modified food will not affect the animals of this planet (especially us) in the very long term? It will of course affect animal life, as these seeds will infest otherwise naturally growing vegetation and thereby sterilize it so that it will not reproduce the way it was intended so with it goes the food chain that depends on it for survival. When Corporate gets involved the problems start. Terminator seeds, not matter how hard anyone tries, will spread itself. Nature will see to it. Eventually, we will end up with a years harvest that NOBODY can replant. Including the commercial asses that think they are monopolizing. Where does that leave us AND them? It leavs us at their mercy for life sustaining food and that is the plan. All of these mono croping GMO group have the same agenda, food production control, and hense population control. Sound a little too conspiracy theory ? Maybe twenty years ago, but today, dunno. We'll die off of starvation and, in another couple millenia, nature will correct itself. I don't adhere to the milennia theory, however it does leave one to wonder if us dying off isn't the point. You know, like Kissinger's comments about culling out the useless eaters through population control (exctermination?). No amount of argument to the contrary can convince me otherwise. Nobody has a century of genetic engineering data to prove that it won't or can't happen. Don't need a milennia of anything, the very nature of this stuff should suffice. That, combined with known court battles where Monsanto et all have successfully sued farmers for being in possession of their trademarked seeds that were blown onto their fields from the poluted one next door let's us know what is what with GMO's. Why would Canada push for such a disaster ? Follow the money trail. Who benefits ? Who is behind it? It isn't you and me and it isn't the farmers who know better. Corporate. And who runs Corporate ? Funny how everything has a way of coming full circle eh? Luc John ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Seeds
Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for you. But I did want to mention that I use normal store bought pre-sprouted plants every year. This year I had horrible time with my veggies. Tomatoes especially took it hard this year. Looked diseased. Sweet green and hot peppers did fine. String beans did OK. Even onions faired poorly. I can't figure out what actually happend. I live in Southern Ontario. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert luis rabello Sent: January 3, 2005 1:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds Hello everyone! My sweetheart and I have been planning our garden for this year. Last year's vegetables were, by far, the most successful we have ever managed; a fact particularly heartening when the poor condition of our soil is considered. (We're still eating fresh carrots, which we have left in the ground. Even in January, they are sweet and firm!) We'd used old seed. Our corn was especially pathetic. Tomatoes (the texture of which I liken to biting a human lip) stayed green until the rain arrived in October, then simply rotted. (This was a shame because my eldest son is particularly fond of them.) Squash, peas, purple beans, beets, potatoes, pumpkins, radishes and carrots did exceedingly well. Our broccoli was very late, but especially delicious. Cabbage did well for the first part of the summer, then the weather turned REALLY hot and the heads tended to split. Aside from the pumpkins, (which were fine grained and sweet) fruit didn't fare very well. Melons and cantaloupe never really developed. Our fruit trees are weak, but I'm working on that. . . We want to use fresh seed this year. Do any of you have any recommendations for cool, west coast climate vegetables? We would prefer a seed distributor located in western Canada or the United States. Thanks in advance! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay?
I haven't ventured this far in my quest, but I'd really love to hear if anyone picks up one of these units. If it works satisfactorily, I'd be willing to buy one. Cheers, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 31, 2004 7:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Anyone know anything about this on ebay? Hey, Saw this on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=11809item=3864167546 rd=1ssPageName=WDVW anybodys opinion on this? Don ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Bipartisan panel recommends US energy strategy
OK. So what is new here? Seems like the panel was a complete waste of money to recommend things we already know need/should be done! What worries me most is that money keeps getting spent on reports instead of implementing. OK, that was my 2cents worth. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: December 28, 2004 12:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Bipartisan panel recommends US energy strategy DieselNet December 2004 http://www.dieselnet.com/ Bipartisan panel recommends US energy strategy The report calls for incentives to increase global oil production, recommends to increase domestic vehicle fuel economy, and to increase investment in alternative fuels. The climate change plan would limit greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, but a cost cap for doing so would be established. Incentives should be also provided for low- and non- carbon sources like natural gas, renewable energy, nuclear energy, and advanced coal technologies with carbon capture and sequestration. Among many detailed recommendations, the report supports domestic production of advanced diesel and hybrid vehicles. The Commission concluded that a combination of improved conventional gasoline technologies and advanced hybrid-electric and diesel technologies can significantly increase fuel economy without sacrificing size, power, or safety. http://www.energycommission.org/ Download report: http://www.energycommission.org/ewebeditpro/items/O82F4682.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Post-Christmas smile
Actually, I thought it was obvious. If we took a look at the way the laws and justice system today would be applied to those times, this is ever so likely the way things would go. Unfortunate. Cheers and Merry Ho Ho (if it so applies). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Sent: December 25, 2004 8:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Post-Christmas smile Sorry , I fail to see where political correctness appears in this little story. I see the religious part, but that's about all. Brian BRIAN THOMAS - Original Message - From: bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Post-Christmas smile Hi All, Just to ease any post-Christmas blues out there, here's a look at what might happen if our prevailing PC climate tightened somewhat. A HYPOTHETICAL CASE What if we were to take political correctness to its logical conclusion? Would we have court cases in which otherwise very exemplary people, and perhaps even former heroes and world leaders, were pilloried? Let look at a hypothetical case. Here the names Beelzebub, Lucifer, Mephistopheles and Old Nick all appear as different people but in fact they all refer to one person, or rather entity, the Evil One himself. Some of this may appear a bit sacrilegious but it is in fact a morality tale. Imagine you have just opened your daily newspaper and found the following. I have called it a hypothetical case. Arising from a legal challenge under the Civil Rights Act a Mr Beelzebub - acting for a plaintiff who gave an address in Gomorrah - asked the court to rule on the legality of Christmas Day as a compulsory break for all citizens regardless of belief. The State's case, based on the Act of Settlement which acknowledged the Church as one of the founding forces of the nation, looked set easily to rebuff the challenge. Bishop Zacharias, called as a witness for the defence, said that the Church accepted Christ as the Son of God and His birth date as a solemn event which could not be regarded as an ordinary working day. Beelzebub countered with the view that Christmas Day was based on improper information and was not in fact the birth date of Christ. Justice Pope demanded further evidence to substantiate this claim. Beelzebub responded by calling a witness who asked for name suppression. This was granted and the witness, known to the court only as Mary, claimed to have had sexual relations with the Holy Ghost resulting in the birth of a son but added that the records had been falsified on the orders of King Herod. The birthplace, she said, was a stable behind an inn in the village of Bethlehem. She believed the month was December but could not attest as to the year. Asked to state her age at the time she said she was unsure but her uncle had assured her she was of marriageable age and she had indeed been married at the time to a man called Joseph. Beelzebub asked the court to note a statement by leading sociologist who said that Middle Eastern marriages were often arranged for under-age females. Beelzebub: Did you consent to sex with the Holy Ghost? The witness did not reply. Pressed further, she said in a whisper that she had spoken only to an angel who had appeared and told her she had been chosen to be the Mother of God. Counsel for the plaintiff then said he would be reframing his charges to include non-consensual sex with an under-age female, and a further charge against a person or persons unknown as an accessory before the fact. In short, my Lord, a pimp, Beelzebub added. At that point Justice Pope ordered a retrial on the grounds that the issues raised were too complex for the lower courts. An urgent Supreme Court hearing was set down for the following week under Chief Justice Pious. At the new hearing the State subpoenaed Jehovah as a character witness for the Holy Ghost who, on the grounds of intangibility, said he could appear only to the faithful and hence it would be unlikely He could be heard and seen by all the court officers. Jehovah, challenged by Beelzebub, admitted He was the Holy Ghost's alter ego. He denied that actual sexual connection had taken place and claimed it was a miracle birth. Justice Pious immediately adjourned the court amid uproar. When the court resumed the following day Beelzebub continued his attack on the State's case by accusing Jehovah of corrupt practice in attempting to subvert a witness. Asked by the court to explain this, Beelzebub said he had written affidavits from the innkeeper and his wife to confirm that they had seen hush money being handed over to Mary in the form of gifts by three men traveling on camels. Calling Mary back to the stand Beelzebub got an admission that she thought they were just three wise men who wanted to be nice to her newborn child. Reading from a written account of the incident by an itinerant fisherman called
RE: [Biofuel] Curious
No. Not just America, Canada too. But then the 49th parallel is just a State Line anyway isn't it? ;-) John Proud to be Canuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mel Riser Sent: November 11, 2004 3:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Curious Only in America...do we buy hot dogs in packages of ten and buns in packages of eight. --- ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash
Believe it or not, this all makes sense. And what's more, I'm getting an education from a fine gentleman in Thailand!! Now then, just who the heck came up with the term 'centrifugal force' if it non-existant? John Niagara Falls -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Guag Meister Sent: October 27, 2004 8:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash Hi John ; John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool. This is the first time I've heard these things explained this way. Can I ask: Just what is the equivilent description of centrifugal force? Does it apply to me spinning a pail of water such that the water doesn't fall out? Just satifying my thirst for knowledge :-) Ask away. No problem. I usually ponder things like this until they make sense. Makes some people crazy. Hmm. Let's see. Let's say you contruct a metal frame with a bucket of water hanging like a swing in the center. The bucket is free to swing any way it wants to. Now we mount this frame and swinging bucket of water on a rocket sled. If we accelerate the rocket sled at g (9.8m/sec2), the bucket will swing towards the back of the sled at a 45 degree angle. If we do it smoothly, no water will spill out. Other rates of acceleration will produce other angles of swing, higher acceleration will swing more, lower accelertations will swing less. The amount of swing would be proportional to the ratio of sled acceleration to g. If we really accelerate the sled at a very high rate, the bucket will swing out almost to a horizontal position and no water will spill. No one would call this centrifugal force, right? But the bucket wants to remain stationary, and so resists the acceleration caused by the rocket sled. No one would call this centifugal force. Now if we swing the bucket around us in a circle and we accelerate the bucket at a rate of g (same 9.8m/sec2), the same thing will happen, ie. the bucket will swing out at a 45 degree angle and no water will spill. The string is putting a force on the bucket towards the center of the circle in the same way as the rocket sled was putting a force on the bucket towards the front of the sled The bucket in turn is putting a force on the water, exactly as in the rocket sled example. The only difference is that the force of circular acceleration is at RIGHT ANGLES to the direction of motion. The bucket wants to continue in a straight line, and the string is putting a force on the bucket at right angle to its direction. This results in changing direction rather than changing speed. The force of acceleration in the rocket sled example is ALONG (parallel to) the direction of motion. This results in changing speed rather than changing direction. However, both are accelerations. If there was such a thing as centrifugal force, it would also describe the rocket sled example. There is no such thing. Hope we haven't gotten too far off topic. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Guag Meister Sent: October 26, 2004 1:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash Hi Eric ; Eric wrote : I really don't understand this assertion. (And I saw it on the web pages from scientists as well.) Saying that the force is an illusion. If you put a spring between my hand and the ball it would compress. A spring needs a force pushing it from both ends to do that. No exceptions. This is a good question. I guess that the word illusion is maybe not a good choice, in that you feel it. But your hand is supplying the force to the ball. not the other way around. Your hand by itself couldn't do it anyway. Your hand is connected to your body which is connected to your feet which are hopefully stationary on the ground due to friction of your shoes. When you push the ball, the force you are suppling to the ball is transmitted in the opposite direction to your feet and ultimately to the earth. The earth will move slightly in the opposaite direction (like 1e-20 meters, depending on the acceleration of the ball). I have yet another way to describe this. Let's say you are standing on the earth and you fire a bullet horizontally. What happens? The bullet wants to go straight, but it is acted on by gravity. So it begins to fall toward the surface of the earth while moving at high speed horizontally. Now the surface of the earth is curved, so as the bullet moves horizontally a lot and falls a liittle, the surface of the earth is falling away from the bullet due to the surface curvature. There is NEVER any centrifugal force. What is happening for an object in orbit is that the object is falling towards the earth exactly as fast as the surface of the earth is falling away. The object moves horizontally and falls a little. The surface of the earth has fallen a little
RE: [Biofuel] more fuel cell vehicles
Question: I know, from much discussion on the lists, that the energy needed to produce hydrogen really isn't worth it in terms of oil/coal terms. But, is it (theoretically) possible to use most of the available hydro generated electricity to make hydrogen such that all vehicles / homes / businesses rely on hydrogen for there energy needs (assuming improved consumption conservation)? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of info Sent: October 27, 2004 3:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] more fuel cell vehicles DaimlerChrysler Commits to Putting More Fuel Cell Vehicles on the Road http://www.alternate-energy.net/more_fuelcell_cars04.html California Unveils State's First Hydrogen Refueling Station http://www.alternate-energy.net/hydrogen_station04.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ news resources forum http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash
Cool. This is the first time I've heard these things explained this way. Can I ask: Just what is the equivilent description of centrifugal force? Does it apply to me spinning a pail of water such that the water doesn't fall out? Just satifying my thirst for knowledge :-) John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Guag Meister Sent: October 26, 2004 1:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash Hi Eric ; Eric wrote : I really don't understand this assertion. (And I saw it on the web pages from scientists as well.) Saying that the force is an illusion. If you put a spring between my hand and the ball it would compress. A spring needs a force pushing it from both ends to do that. No exceptions. This is a good question. I guess that the word illusion is maybe not a good choice, in that you feel it. But your hand is supplying the force to the ball. not the other way around. Your hand by itself couldn't do it anyway. Your hand is connected to your body which is connected to your feet which are hopefully stationary on the ground due to friction of your shoes. When you push the ball, the force you are suppling to the ball is transmitted in the opposite direction to your feet and ultimately to the earth. The earth will move slightly in the opposaite direction (like 1e-20 meters, depending on the acceleration of the ball). I have yet another way to describe this. Let's say you are standing on the earth and you fire a bullet horizontally. What happens? The bullet wants to go straight, but it is acted on by gravity. So it begins to fall toward the surface of the earth while moving at high speed horizontally. Now the surface of the earth is curved, so as the bullet moves horizontally a lot and falls a liittle, the surface of the earth is falling away from the bullet due to the surface curvature. There is NEVER any centrifugal force. What is happening for an object in orbit is that the object is falling towards the earth exactly as fast as the surface of the earth is falling away. The object moves horizontally and falls a little. The surface of the earth has fallen a little. When these two rates are exactly equal, the object is in orbit. If someone went up to 100 miles and dropped a stone. It would fall straight down due to gravity. If you threw it horizontally at 100 mph it would fall in a curved path and land a few hundred miles from you. If you threw it at 1,000 mph it would land much further from you. If you threw it at 16,500 mph it would almost make it around the earth before landing. If you threw it at exactly the right speed (approximately 17,500 mph for near earth orbit), it would be falling at exactly the same rate as the surface of the earth is Falling. If will never land, ie. it is in orbit.. There is NEVER any centrifugal force. Only centripital force of gravity, directed toward the center of the earth, which is causing the curved path. If you threw it faster than 17,500 mph, say 18,500 mph, the centripital force of gravity would not be enough to curve the objects path fast enough to stay along the curvature of the earth, and the object would move further into space. This is NOT centrifugal force. It is insufficient centripital force. Autronauts in orbit are weightless because they are continuously Falling (ie. accellerating towards the earth due to gravity). They feel just as you would feel if you were in an elevator and someone cut the rope. When you accelerate at g towards the earth you become weightless. The astronauts are falling ALL THE TIME. They just happen to be moving horizontally fast enough so that the surface of the earth curves away from them so the never hit it. Whew! Hope this helps. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices
Around here (Niagara Region Ontario) the price has been pretty steady. However, there is differences town to town. Niagara sits at about 86cents/litre while Burlington sits around 80cents. One corner there has daily flucuations of 86cents in the first half of the day and 80cents the second half. This has been going on for a couple weeks. Crazy! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert luis rabello Sent: October 27, 2004 12:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices We're a week away from election day, and I've noticed that gasoline prices have suddenly dropped. Normally, we see some fluctuation in the gasoline price during the week. Since Friday, however, the marquees have remained steady. Is this coincidence? Is it a phenomenon peculiar to B.C.? Or is there something else going on right now? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash
And why does it have to be 60 miles high? In our praries, 60 square miles in nothing. Forget the 60 mile hieght. Imagine the methane / nat.gas that could be drawn off a waste dump that size. Yeah, yeah. OK. So the fuel used to transport all that stuff to a huge central dump might negate all that. But it's a wonderful thought! Ooops, just rambling thought. Sorry. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Welter Sent: October 24, 2004 1:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash Putting a pile of trash 60 miles high would put it higher than the ozone layer. I'm not sure how high something has to get before the pull of gravity is too low, but I'd assume that if there was a piece of paper 60 miles high, and the Jet Stream happened to be passing through, there'd be one hell of a mess to clean up. Jeff Original Message Follows From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:10:43 -0600 Centrifuges force is greater at the equator, even then it depends on how everything is held together. 60 miles high?Never happen,You would need an area, at least 60 miles square, if you are lucky and can get away with an Angle of Repose of 45* ( which is very doubtful, and I have my math right ).I doubt that Canada would be willing to give up 60 sq miles, just to pile trash on it. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 14:01 Subject: [Biofuel] Canadian Trash There's a guy on Canada-L who says that if we built a very high Mount Trashmore in Canada, say 60 miles high, it will get blown away by centrifugal force but not if it is built at the equator. Is that correct? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset
I'll plead ignorance right off the bat. But is fossil fuel truely carbon negative? The plants and animals they are derived from were living and breathing albeit a few million years ago. It's just been held in escrow for a while :) It's just the human virus that's releasing it all in a short 100 years. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Appal Energy Sent: October 9, 2004 12:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset Start Here: Vegetable oil has the potential to be 100% carbon neutral and is probably already ~90% carbon neutral despite fossil fuels used in its production, refining and transportation. Fossil fuel is 100% carbon negative right out of the chute and if you include mining, refining and transportation the negative numbers escalate well beyond that. No or almost no SOx, no heavy metals and a few dozen other benefits in comparison. If you want to labor on the math go ahead. But you're banging your head against the wall if you think that you'll come up with any disbenefit that comes anywhere close to the disbenefits of fossil fuels. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Robert Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset I never intended the use of biodiesel. The idea is for reclaimed waste vegetable oils. I am curious on if anyone has given thought to the emissions per kWh of such a setup versus coal fired plant (...who in our area are successful in avoiding EPA New Source Review regulations, and continue to spew). Also considering the addition of a pre-combustion fuel catalyst, and additional after treament (because of dedicated veg use). At 01:28 PM 10/8/2004, you wrote: Lyle, Is it not true that the grid is so much more efficient than Rob's generator that making electricity from biodiesel is a waste of perfectly good fuel? I don't know about that. Do you think that an approximate 65% loss in energy from fuel source to your duplex outlet is very efficient? That's the loss achieved by the grid that provides electrical service to you. You may be right about a fairly needless waste of biodiesel, however. Especially when gensets operate under constant load and for the most part are capable of running on WVO/SVO. The inclusion of more energy inputs by making biodiesel might be unnecessary in many instances. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Lyle Estill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset Gang, I've enjoyed this thread for awhile now, and have finally found the courage to post. Is it not true that the grid is so much more efficient than Rob's generator that making electricity from biodiesel is a waste of perfectly good fuel? From a conservation standpoint (strictly BTUs--forget geopolitical arguments for a moment), he is better off running his studio on grid. On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:23 PM, Appal Energy wrote: Kirk, Did that fellow say that every China diesel owner achieved in excess of 10,000 hours? Or was he only pointing to the exceptions? It would also be a rather rare truck that got one million miles before it had to have the top end and rings done. 300-500,000 is a more real breaking point there. You're also speaking of relatively small horsepower and not a great deal of engine mass. Don't think you can compare the odd duck of a truck to the whole roost. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset That fellow Skip who wrote More Power to You said he knew China diesel owners that had in excess of 10,000 hours without a rebuild. We know trucks go 100 miles and at an avg of 50mph that is 20.000 hours Kirk Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, What is the flaw I am missing? You don't use all 2,000 kWh in 2-3 hour blocks. To make your idea work without a storage system you would have to conduct all your energy consuming activities within that narrow time window. You'd probably be best served by installing a battery bank and converter and cycle your gennie as required. You've also got to depreciate your gennie. Check the manufacturer's estimated life cycle. Usually they're only 2-3 thousand hours before a rebuild is necessary, meaning that you'll be buying a new gennie or paying the rebuild costs every second or third year. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Robert Del Bueno To: Sent:
RE: [Biofuel] HELP
Hi Doug. Just a quick note to say Hi from Niagara Falls. You are the closest Canadian I've met on the lists. Cheers. John Mullan Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: October 8, 2004 10:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] HELP My guess is that lawn mower and lawn tractor engines are fairly low compression and not fussy about fuel. I would not try any amount of biodiesel in a high performance gasoline engine like a car engine, For gasoline engines I would think that ethanol blends with gasoline are much to be preferred. The fuel requirements of spark-ignition gasoline, and diesel engines, are entirely different. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Gregg Davidson wrote: Hi Steve, While you can't use 100% Biodiesel in a gasoline engine, you can mix it up to a maximum of 15% with the gas. It works great in lawn mower / lawn tractor engines as well. Same maximum percentage. Sincerely Gregg Davidson ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Cheap oil
You know it's happening. And the commericial I saw the other night goes a long way with that. Not sure who's commercial, but oil executives in the board room, one introduces them to bio oil. They balk and say their in the oil business, he says their in the energy business. So you know they are thinking about it and have a Plan B up their sleeve. They just want to eek out the last drops of dino dollars while they can. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ross Cannon Sent: September 30, 2004 9:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Cheap oil Global Capitalism and the end of Cheap Oil I just encountered two articles at my library that strengthens my belief that we are beginning to see the end of cheap oil NOW from how we've always known it. We won't have to wait 10 years. One was an article by T. Boone Pickens, the Texas oil mogol. The other was an article in the Kipplinger Newsletter, a newsletter printed monthly for the business world. The article in Kipplinger says that oil is skyrocketing for a number of reasons, including the political destabilization of oil producing regions throughout the world. (Remember Bush's argument that our invasion of Iraq would help secure the Iraqi oil fields? Well, the terrorists are now targeting the oil industry as a strategy to cripple our economy -- starting with Iraq.) Another BIG factor is the booming economic growth now taking place in India and China. Especially the booming manufacturing capability of China. Not only is oil affected (it's being bought up as fast as it is being pumped -- OPEC seems unable to make up the difference anymore), but valuable other irreplaceable resources are being sucked up by these nations -- for example, American scrap iron. Add to that the fact that the international transport infrastructure (trains, planes, ships, etc) is now being taxed to the hilt due to a soaring amount of imports and exports (also reported by Kissinger) and put it together, we see a significant impact on our economy. Pickens view is that unless things change, all nations -- attempting to copy the American economic model of the past -- will be competing with each other for fewer and fewer oil reserves. He sees $50 to $100 per barrel oil becoming the norm, for example. I see the same thing for items like bauxite, iron ore, and such -- essential raw materials required in the manufacturing process. Thus simple living will become an economic necessity as things balance out throughout the world, At the same time developing nations become more like the U.S., we no doubt will become more like them -- MY words. But this is not such a bad thing. As I have said before here, that hardly means that we'll be living in grass huts. More like it, we will be living much like we did in the Forties, Fifties or maybe the Sixties, my guess. Ross Cannon 0oo00o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0oo0o00o0o0o0o0o0 The Equinox is here again, marking a brief time of balance on this plane of existence. We feel the passage of time with the colors of fall, spring for our friends to the south. We feel an intuitive need to pause and to reflect on where we are in our life's journey. RossCannon Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Ontario finally waking up?!?!?
The news has started being full of stories about actually turning to alternatives. Windmill in Toronto. Local waste site using / piping methane to the local paper recycling plant displacing the outrageous amount of NG they consume. Today, the Toronto Transit Commission is set to use a diesel + biodiesel blend. While this is great and I'm glad to see admission that we have to be doing these kind of things, it makes me wonder why it's starting to happen at an apparently faster pace (not considering the planning time involved). Is it more of a governmental P.R. ploy? Is it a sign that they know we are headed for disaster in the not-so-distant future? Sorry, I'm really not a conspiracy type, but I have to wonder. Anyway, keep it up Ontario. We need it no matter how you look at it. Cheers, John ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] how much do you know
A simple test would be to go down the highway at 40mph and take note of accelerator position. Now go 60mph. Not the accelerator position. Hmmm. Faster = More Gas. More Gas = More Enery. Simple test, yes? - Original Message - From: Tim Castleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 1:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] how much do you know how much do you know that reducing the speed limit again would help? Personally, I can only offer that it is simple physics. It takes energy to move mass, and more energy to move mass faster. Certainly technology has improved the efficiency of vehicles, but technology has yet to circumvent the laws of physics. A simple test one can very effectively do would require a bicycle. Peddle hard and get it going as fast as you can, then try to maintain that speed. It should not take long to notice a significant loss of speed without a great investment of more and more energy. We can also look at some of the work done in 1995, which is admittedly a bit old, but helpful. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/reports/env-spds.htm http://www.trucktires.com/library/technical/bftechnical/fuel_economy_b.htm Of course I could be wrong about the actual percentages, there are certainly a great many variables to consider, but I am not wrong that it requires more energy to move mass faster. Slowing down will save energy. Finding a compromise between standing still and movement is the real issue. This is why safety, pollution, cost, and time all enter the equation. I would certainly welcome any contribution to help clarify and substantiate or disprove the starting points of 20% to 50% reductions that I have derived from historical documentation I found so far. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
Postal service? What? We got that? :-) -Original Message- From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 31, 2003 12:57 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Don Lancaster (computer guru and other nom de plume) www.tinaja.com on page 2 of his http://www.tinaja.com/glib/myebays.pdf EBay secrets says no foreign bidders, not just Canadian. Why? Because it is a hassle. BTW -- The Canadian postal service can be downright moronic. Kirk -Original Message- From: John Mullan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 6:25 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum This war stuff is all nuts. Lately it has been my misfortune to be Canadian. Don't get me wrong, Canada is great. But lately, things like eBay's boycott on allowing Canadian bids seems a little childish. If there really is a terrorism/WMD threat to the US, great. Go eliminate the threat. Canada has always been ready to help the US defend it's rights and I (and a great many other Canadians) back this philosophy. Naturally, there are those here that feel different and I can't speak for them. However, I personally feel that as an offensive move, the US makes it's own choice. They definitely have the strength and power to accomplish their task. Hell, we can't even keep helicopters in the sky or keep our subs from leaking!!! Let's not pick on the '90lb weakling' neighbour. Make no mistake. Should, for whatever reason, the tables turned and things turn to a defensive mode Canada will be in there like white over rice. I have many friends in the US and they don't boycott me. We do have a couple of asses in office that make stupid remarks and you can better your higher-valued dollar that they don't get elected again. The little guys (voters) can only bitch-slap those kinds of politicians by using the almight vote. Just my rantings. -Original Message- From: Jerry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 30, 2003 9:28 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Roger That!! Thanks for sitting me straight...Shame on them...I will go on a 1 mile run as soon as I finish imported steak (LOL), and freedom wineHoorar (82 Airborne word)' Jerry -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Jerry, I think you misunderstood it, it is in foreign countries that a movement is growing now to boycott American companies/products. It is a reaction on the unjust war and maybe the pictures of Americans emptying fine French wine in the gutter, a waste that is criminal. If anyone want to get rid of good French wine, please send it to me. But I think that the parents to those who did it, are angry now and are stocking up again. I talked to young people in Spain, Germany and Sweden and they want to boycott what they see as American interests. Not always smart, but a healthy reaction on something that they see as unjust war. They do not trust the altruistic songs from Bush Co. It is expected that the PP party in Spain will loose a lot of votes on this. Although Bush get a lot of support for the war in the polls, a majority says that they would not vote for him again. So he stand a far chance of joining his father in being one of the very few presidents who lost a reelection. The support for Blair show a similar tendency. Boycotts are sometimes efficient, but I agree that it very seldom hurts the ones that they are aimed for. Look at the US led UN boycott against Iraq and the hundreds of thousands of children who died because of it. Personally I think that McDonalds is a part of the US chemical warfare and since I do not eat their stuff, I cannot boycott them. Maybe we will get some healthier youngsters as a result of the war and that is positive. I stopped to drink Coca Cola, but that was for health reasons also. I have a similar thing with French Fries (Freedom Fries, LOL), stopped eating that too, because if you do a chemical analysis, they are very easy mistaken for paper products. Jerry, we are both retired and have to think about our health. Hakan At 04:06 AM 3/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: What is wrong with you people?? You really think that a boycott would make any difference?? The economy is gone to hell now, and you want to boycott American products and or business!! Seems to me that you are trying to shoot yourself in the foot, with all this boycott stuff. I really don't care;I'm retired and do not relay on a job or the economy, but you knotheads had better wake up!!! The people in charge are going to do what ever it takes
RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum
This war stuff is all nuts. Lately it has been my misfortune to be Canadian. Don't get me wrong, Canada is great. But lately, things like eBay's boycott on allowing Canadian bids seems a little childish. If there really is a terrorism/WMD threat to the US, great. Go eliminate the threat. Canada has always been ready to help the US defend it's rights and I (and a great many other Canadians) back this philosophy. Naturally, there are those here that feel different and I can't speak for them. However, I personally feel that as an offensive move, the US makes it's own choice. They definitely have the strength and power to accomplish their task. Hell, we can't even keep helicopters in the sky or keep our subs from leaking!!! Let's not pick on the '90lb weakling' neighbour. Make no mistake. Should, for whatever reason, the tables turned and things turn to a defensive mode Canada will be in there like white over rice. I have many friends in the US and they don't boycott me. We do have a couple of asses in office that make stupid remarks and you can better your higher-valued dollar that they don't get elected again. The little guys (voters) can only bitch-slap those kinds of politicians by using the almight vote. Just my rantings. -Original Message- From: Jerry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 30, 2003 9:28 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Roger That!! Thanks for sitting me straight...Shame on them...I will go on a 1 mile run as soon as I finish imported steak (LOL), and freedom wineHoorar (82 Airborne word)' Jerry -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Jerry, I think you misunderstood it, it is in foreign countries that a movement is growing now to boycott American companies/products. It is a reaction on the unjust war and maybe the pictures of Americans emptying fine French wine in the gutter, a waste that is criminal. If anyone want to get rid of good French wine, please send it to me. But I think that the parents to those who did it, are angry now and are stocking up again. I talked to young people in Spain, Germany and Sweden and they want to boycott what they see as American interests. Not always smart, but a healthy reaction on something that they see as unjust war. They do not trust the altruistic songs from Bush Co. It is expected that the PP party in Spain will loose a lot of votes on this. Although Bush get a lot of support for the war in the polls, a majority says that they would not vote for him again. So he stand a far chance of joining his father in being one of the very few presidents who lost a reelection. The support for Blair show a similar tendency. Boycotts are sometimes efficient, but I agree that it very seldom hurts the ones that they are aimed for. Look at the US led UN boycott against Iraq and the hundreds of thousands of children who died because of it. Personally I think that McDonalds is a part of the US chemical warfare and since I do not eat their stuff, I cannot boycott them. Maybe we will get some healthier youngsters as a result of the war and that is positive. I stopped to drink Coca Cola, but that was for health reasons also. I have a similar thing with French Fries (Freedom Fries, LOL), stopped eating that too, because if you do a chemical analysis, they are very easy mistaken for paper products. Jerry, we are both retired and have to think about our health. Hakan At 04:06 AM 3/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: What is wrong with you people?? You really think that a boycott would make any difference?? The economy is gone to hell now, and you want to boycott American products and or business!! Seems to me that you are trying to shoot yourself in the foot, with all this boycott stuff. I really don't care;I'm retired and do not relay on a job or the economy, but you knotheads had better wake up!!! The people in charge are going to do what ever it takes to line their pockets(oil) and you can't do a damn thing about it, and not buying McDonalds(meat shipped in from another country) and or K-mart(made in China) is not going to hurt anyone in those countries, only the poor working slob here in america... Good Luck I do admire your basic idea. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 6:15 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] EU: Boycott of American Goods Over Iraq War Gains Momentum Hi Darryl, What about McDonalds/Budweiser/Texaco/Miller? dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: The boycotts cut both ways.
RE: [biofuel] AC - DC
Actually, he is likely thinking the RMS calculation of which 120VAC RMS would be 120 x 1.414 = Peak voltage and Peak voltage x .707 to get RMS. You would be much closer using the 120 x .707 to get a well filtered DC voltage. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: February 8, 2003 4:33 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] AC - DC I am looking at WVO fueled diesel powered home/shop co-generation options. The thinking process came up a design idea where some 120VAC would be converted to ?VDC. Someone I respect in electronics stated that a simple AC - DC filtered rectification circuit results in the output VDC being 1.7 the input VAC. This does not seem right to me and while I could go buy the components to test the hypothesis, I would prefer someone either confirm or refute the x1.7 claim. I searched the internet and my books without success; so, I pose it here as defined: ac_dc.jpg If input is 120VAC, then will the output be = 120VDC, x1.7 = 204VDC, or = something else? Assume simple filtering by capacitors and inductors with reasonable component quality as this is more theoretical than absolute precision real-world design at this stage. Personally, I would think it would be 120VDC while if it were 204VDC it would be very nice for my application. Maybe someone knows a good web site to provide the answer to this simple electricity circuit. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters.
OK. Yes, I did mention that newer inverters were better efficiency. The 'auto on' switching you mention goes with my theory that a few inverters would be a decent idea. The heavier gauge wire for the low-voltage application would depend of course on what your loads are. 24V equipment can be obtained that draw relatively low currents (albiet some will still draw a lot, ie; inductive). Another reason I offered 24V over 12V (P=IE of course). However, I am further educated now by your data on 90-97%. That is pretty good. John -Original Message- From: Martin Klingensmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 2:31 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. Most newer inverters are PWM sine wave output. Modern MOSFET designs improve efficiency incredibly over less efficient transistor designs. A 500W inverter wasting 20% is quite exaggerated, I have seen actual values from 90-97% A lot of people don't take into account the losses associated with running low-voltage high-current power through a conductor. A 12 volt appliance drawing 20 amps with a loss of .08 ohms in the conductor [size 12 AWG, 50 feet] would have a drop of 1.58 volts - assuming you could get that 20 amps of current [max allowed for 12 gauge wire], you would be wasting 30 watts in your wire. 24 volt systems are much better. Depending on your situation and if the wire already exists in your house, you may be better off using a high-efficiency inverter or inverters that switch on with an increasing load [to reduce idle losses] Larger-gauge wire would also be a lot more expensive for new installations. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -Original Message- From: John Mullan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:21 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. I have been keeping my on the inverter subject for a while. As a 'reasonably' educated electronics technician (mostly digital) I feel I can comment on this. Most inverters are notorious energy wasters. Energy waste is proportional to energy drawn. For example (not accurate) a 100W inverter wastes 5% while a 500W inverter wastes 20%. Transformers can of course give you a better sine wave. However, 60hz is such a low frequency that you need a huge transformer. Solid state produces the noisier sine wave and depending on the wattage you require, can be very difficult to keep the output devices cool. Many of the new inverters have improved on efficiency, but are expensive. I bought a 1800W Tripp-Lite unit for $1200 CDN. And it doesn't take long for a pair of 500W quartz lamps to drain 2 deep-cycle marine batteries. It might be better to use a few smaller individual inverters for smaller loads and a couple of heavier duty ones for heavier loads. IE; use the size necessary to get the job done. If you used one huge inverter to power most of your house, it would have to be on constantly and waste a lot of power (they do consume energy even when the load is off). Better yet, you can get almost every electrical device you desire in a 12 or 24 volt version. Why not convert everything to low-voltage (24 being more efficient than 12). You will get a lot more time between recharges over using inverters. PS: I know I didn't really solve any problems here but hope to have imparted a little knowledge for Patrick. Cheers, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters.
I have been keeping my on the inverter subject for a while. As a 'reasonably' educated electronics technician (mostly digital) I feel I can comment on this. Most inverters are notorious energy wasters. Energy waste is proportional to energy drawn. For example (not accurate) a 100W inverter wastes 5% while a 500W inverter wastes 20%. Transformers can of course give you a better sine wave. However, 60hz is such a low frequency that you need a huge transformer. Solid state produces the noisier sine wave and depending on the wattage you require, can be very difficult to keep the output devices cool. Many of the new inverters have improved on efficiency, but are expensive. I bought a 1800W Tripp-Lite unit for $1200 CDN. And it doesn't take long for a pair of 500W quartz lamps to drain 2 deep-cycle marine batteries. It might be better to use a few smaller individual inverters for smaller loads and a couple of heavier duty ones for heavier loads. IE; use the size necessary to get the job done. If you used one huge inverter to power most of your house, it would have to be on constantly and waste a lot of power (they do consume energy even when the load is off). Better yet, you can get almost every electrical device you desire in a 12 or 24 volt version. Why not convert everything to low-voltage (24 being more efficient than 12). You will get a lot more time between recharges over using inverters. PS: I know I didn't really solve any problems here but hope to have imparted a little knowledge for Patrick. Cheers, -Original Message- From: martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 2:06 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. I got pretty excited about plans for a 1200 watt inverter, then I saw that it was square wave, and used a transformer that probably weighs a couple Kg. Switch-mode design comes to mind, but that is a fairly complicated subject that I don't know a lot about. I am thinking about trying a Class-D style design, a pulse-width modulated switcher that doesn't require a large transformer. kirk wrote: Don't use a square wave with a HP laser printer. Probably the other brands too. Don't use square wave with magnetics -- transformers and motors. The higher frequencies manifest as heat. Kirk -Original Message- From: martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:42 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. A square wave inverter brings up the interesting question of how the comparatively noisy wave form will affect sensitive things. Do you have any knowledge with a square wave inverter versus a sine wave? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
