Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
...and while we're debunking popular myths lets nail this one too. Plutonium, the most significant element in nuclear waste, is so carcinogenic that hypothetically half a kilo evenly distributed could cause cancer in everyone on Earth. By Dr. Helen Caldicott It is worth a look here for a reality check: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Plutonium I am NOT in favor of nuclear power, however media hype misinformation like the quote above only discredits the good work of the anti-nuclear movement. ls --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John and all It's crap anyway, Robin Williams didn't write it: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp Urban Legends Reference Pages: Politics (Robin Williams) False. It's not even new, it's been doing the rounds for two years. Best wishes Keith __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: was Robin's solution... was: DA Drops...
yes, I've noticed that most of the criticism is the shoot the messenger variety. I'd prefer to discuss content, and comments like xenophobic rant and load of bull are not discussion. ls --- Jerry Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't make a damn to me who said itits just plain good ole advise. Jerry - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 12:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: was Robin's solution... was: DA Drops... What a load of bull. I sincerely doubt that the Robin Williams was the author of the xenophobic rant below. tallex __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Or, you can continue to assess the truth as myth and lend yourself to the continued dis-informing, mis-informing and propagandizing of others. Todd Swearingen __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] debunking popular myths... was Robin's solution
--- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Lisa Lets avoid the personal attacks and stick to a discussion of the facts. ls Todd discussed the facts and you're trying to squirm out from under. Now stop it and give him an honest response. The nationmaster link states that 10 tons of Pu have been released. At approx 10 kilos per bomb, thats a bunch of big bangs. So hypothetically, I would guess that much more than half a kilo has already been distributed worldwide. Have you got your share of cancer yet? I'm not suggesting that worldwide distribution of plutonium is a good idea, but rather that facts rather than media hype serve a better purpose. Don't forget I'm NOT pro-nuclear. ls __ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] media hype...was debunking popular myths
i prefer to think you know better. so give us something real. come on, we're dying here. -chris the point is not the relative toxicity of plutonium, of course it's nasty stuff. The point is that media hype, attributed to a medical professional who should know better, i.e. that half a kilo, evenly dispersed will give everyone on the earth cancer is just hype. More than half a kilo has already been irresponsibly blown into the sky, not everyone has cancer. The not everyone has cancer argument is used by the pro-nuclear factions to somehow support the idea that plutonium isn't a problem, when it obviously is. To summarize: my argument is against the hype, not the relative toxicity of plutonium. ls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pointless bashing.. was robin's solution
The point of posting the robin williams fluff piece was not to extoll it's questionable 'validity' [notice I never said anything to support it] but rather to illustrate the shallow pointlessness of the incessant 'Merican bashing which seems to characterize 'political correctness' among the globalized liberal elite. What seems to have gone completely over the heads of most readers is that both are of the same vein. Failing to grasp that point and retorting with personal accusations only illustrates the point further. One does not further one's position by cutting others down, but rather by showing a better way. What 'you' think of 'me' has nothing to do with an objective discussion of any subject. Try posting something objective without using the word 'you'. ls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Robin's solution... was: DA Drops...
You gotta love Robin Williams... Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan .. what we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message. Robin William's plan. (Hard to argue with this logic!) I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan. 1.) The US will apologize to the world for our interference in their affairs, past present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic and the rest of those 'good ole boys,' We will never interfere again. 2.) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence. 3.) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them. 4.) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers. 5.) No foreign students over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a D and it's back home baby. 6.) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while. 7.) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.) 8.) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not interfere, They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything. 9.) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens. 10.) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us Ugly Americans any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH.learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan. The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me?' ~~~If you agree with the above forward it to friend... If not, and I would be amazed, DELETE it ! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fwd: The Twilight of Fuel?
this ought to make for some unfettered drivel... (but Lou is good at asking pointed questions, so at least it should be interesting!) the show airs at 6pm EST and repeats at, I think, 11pm EST. the transcript should show up later tonight at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ldt.html Lisa southeast US -- Forwarded Message -- Lou Dobbs Tonight Thursday, March 24, 2005 THE TWILIGHT OF FUEL? Mark Mills, co-author of The Bottomless Well, joins us to explain why he says energy is not scarce, why the price of energy doesn't matter very much, and why wasting energy is both necessary and desirable. BROKEN BORDERS Michael Cutler of the Center for Immigration Studies joins us with his reaction to the border issues raised in the summit between President Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. THE SCHIAVO CASE Dr. Joseph Fins, director of medical ethics at the Weill Cornell Medical Center, joins us to discuss the latest developments in the Terry Schiavo case. GRANGE ON POINT Brig. Gen. David Grange (Ret.) joins us to discuss the latest developments in Iraq and the outlook for troop commitments there. ASSAULT ON THE MIDDLE CLASS In this weeks special series, Assault on the Middle Class, well look beyond the debate about social security reform at what middle-class Americans can really expect when they retire. Tonight, well take a look at how retirees are coping with runaway health care costs. For more, visit http://cnn.com/loudobbstonight. Stop by the site to test your knowledge of the Americas Bright Future series in our online quiz. Also visit the Web site for ordering information for Lous new book, Exporting America: Why Corporate Greed is Shipping American Jobs Overseas. The book is now available for purchase online and in stores. CNN -- The most trusted name in news. (c) 2005 Cable News Network LP, LLLP. A Time Warner Company All Rights Reserved. --- ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[biofuel] Republicans Plan a Hydrogen Economy -- at Your Expense
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0322/baard.php Republicans Plan a Hydrogen Economy÷at Your Expense It's Nucular by Mark Baard May 28 - June 3, 2003 [image: http://images.villagevoice.com/issues/0322/baard.jpg ] Bush looks over a scooter powered by solid hydrogen fuel during a demonstration of energy technologies at The National Building Museum in Washington, D.C. (photo: www.whitehouse.gov) On a sunny Saturday morning 30 years from now, you may decide to take your family for a ride to the country. You'll still be driving a car, and you may still get stuck in traffic. But that's OK, because the only thing you'll be breathing in is water vapor from the car in front of you. Welcome to the seemingly benign hydrogen economy President Bush has touted over the past year. Pollution-free cars. Abundant fuel. A cleaner environment. But there's one factor the president isn't talking much about: the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of new nuclear power plants his administration imagines making all of that hydrogen. The Bush administration and Senate Republicans want to give billions of taxpayer dollars to the nuclear industry to make high-temperature, gas- cooled reactors (HTGRs), which÷theoretically÷can co-generate electricity and hydrogen, side by side, inside cheap modular reactors. Advocates of the plants say they wouldn't need the expensive protections required for traditional models. This summer, the Senate is expected to vote on the Energy Policy Act of 2003, which includes funding for new HTGR plants and the construction of a pilot co-generation facility to be run by the U.S. Department of Energy in Idaho. The bill was sent to the full chamber by the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee last month. Spokespeople for the committee and the DOE say the aim is to cut greenhouse emissions, since energy companies continue to use coal and natural gas in making hydrogen. But small, modular HTGR plants may do it more efficiently and cleanly, they said. That all depends, of course, on how you define cleanly. To extract hydrogen from water÷to get the H out of the H2O÷you first have to make steam. The modular nuclear plants would do that without polluting the air, but would also leave behind radioactive waste. Scientists have not yet designed a nuclear facility whose safety and efficiency trumps that of gas or coal. One proposal, from MIT, has a nuclear reactor sitting under the same roof as a chemical plant bubbling with sulfuric acid and hydrogen iodide. Each modular plant would produce as little as one-tenth of the energy of a single light-water reactor. And since by some estimates the United States would need the equivalent of 500 light-water reactors to produce enough hydrogen, it may take thousands of modular plants to get the same job done. The nuke industry, not surprisingly, says it's interested in joining the hydrogen economy. Entergy, the second-largest nuclear energy producer in the U.S., hopes to break ground on its co-generation Freedom Reactor within five years. But only the feds seem willing to pay for the research and development that would make the futuristic plants a reality. We generate electricity, said a spokesperson for Exelon, the country's largest producer. We're not heavily involved in funding research and development. Taxpayers may soon be. The Senate's energy bill affords the DOE $1.1 billion to build an HTGR co-generation nuclear plant at its Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory within 10 years. The bill also proposes to kick-start a nuke renaissance by subsidizing half the cost of six to 10 new HTGR power plants in the United States. We need to move toward clean-air energy sources that are more reliable than wind and solar, said Marnie Funk, a spokesperson for New Mexico Republican senator Pete Domenici, chair of the energy and resources committee. Renewable energy sources, like wind and solar, are emissions-free. But the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow. Many people also see wind turbines as an eyesore: Cape Codders are fighting plans for an offshore wind farm that would obstruct their views. And then you've got the bird issue, said Funk. Wind turbines earned some notoriety by killing as many as 50 golden eagles along California's Altamont Pass during the 1990s. Today, wind and solar proponents are appalled that Senator Domenici and the nuke industry are pushing nuclear energy as a greener choice. It's disingenuous to suggest that the nuclear provisions in the energy bill come out of a commitment to the environment, said Lisa Gue, a senior policy analyst with Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy and Environment program. Gue said the energy bill is a thank-you to nuclear companies, who have contributed some $1 million to energy committee members' campaigns over the past three election cycles. The Senate energy committee wants to lessen greenhouse gases at the cost
Re: [biofuel] Lieberman energy plan would slash US oil imports
it's just too bad he's a hawk in Democrats' clothing... Message: 5 Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:09:11 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Lieberman energy plan would slash US oil imports http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/20716/story.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fw: PANUPS: Terminator Technology Marches Ahead
wonder how long before the oilco's try to get in on this, too? (not that it's not bad enough already...) === P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service === Terminator Technology Marches Ahead April 4, 2003 On April 1, ETC Group* reported on the ongoing research and development of a highly controversial genetic seed sterilization process known as Terminator technology--plants genetically engineered to render seeds sterile. Terminator technology is being developed as a biological mechanism to strip farmers of their right to save and re-plant seeds from their harvest, thus creating greater dependence on the commercial seed market. The ETC report, Terminator Technology: Five Years Later has found that five years later, Terminator is far from dead. Together with hundreds of civil society, farmers' and indigenous peoples organizations worldwide, ETC Group (formerly known as RAFI) concludes that the only solution is for governments to recommend a global ban on suicide seeds. ETC Group also reports on Exorcist Technology, the biotech industry's recent attempt to develop genetically engineered (GE) crops that shed their foreign DNA before harvest, with the help of chemical inducers. The industry sees this as a means of silencing anti-GE critics since the final products will not contain foreign DNA. Exorcist is a new technology, but the basic strategy is the same--the biotech industry wants to shift all the burden to the farmer and society. If gene flow is a problem, the farmer will be obliged to apply a chemical inducer to excise the offensive transgenes. It's the newest bag of genetic tricks to fix the biotech industry's leaky genes and public relations problems, explains Hope Shand of ETC Group. We're still discovering new patent claims on Terminator, this time by Syngenta, and now the seed industry and the U.S. Department of Agriculture are boldly extolling the virtues of Terminator technology for small farmers and indigenous peoples, explains Shand. According to ETC Group, the biotech industry is greenwashing Terminator by promoting it as a biosafety tool. The group is concerned that if Terminator technology wins market acceptance under the guise of biosafety, it will eventually be used everywhere as a monopoly tool to prevent farmers from saving and re-using seed. Terminator technology has not yet been commercialized. However, according to Harry Collins, a Vice-President at Delta and Pine Land Co. (the world's largest cotton seed company) his company continues to work toward commercialization. Delta Pine Land, the U.S. Department of Agriculture, Syngenta, DuPont, Monsanto, BASF and Purdue, Iowa State and Cornell universities all hold Terminator patents. Syngenta, with nine patents, holds more Terminator patents than any other company, although Syngenta has stated publicly that it will not commercialize the trait. On June 23-25, 2003, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (owner of three Terminator patents), U.S. Agency for International Development and the U.S. Department of State have invited ministers of trade, agriculture and environment from 180 countries to a Ministerial Conference on Agricultural Science and Technology in Sacramento, California. If the ministers accept the U.S. government's invitation to attend the meeting, the ETC Group recommends that they hold the U.S. government accountable for its role in developing, patenting and licensing Terminator technology. If the U.S. government plans to showcase biotech's new and controversial agricultural technologies for the South in the lead up to the WTO Ministerial in Cancun, it should begin by explaining why it supports an anti-farmer, anti-diversity technology for use in the developing world--where 1.4 billion people depend on farm-saved seeds, advises Silvia Ribeiro of ETC Group who is based in Mexico. The full text of the 10-page report on Terminator and Exorcist plus policy recommendations is available at: http://www.etcgroup.org/. *The Action Group on Erosion, Technology and Concentration, formerly RAFI, is an international civil society organization headquartered in Canada. The ETC group is dedicated to the advancement of cultural and ecological diversity and human rights. The ETC group is also a member of the Community Biodiversity Development and Conservation Programme (CBDC). The CBDC is a collaborative experimental initiative involving civil society organizations and public research institutions in 14 countries. The CBDC is dedicated to the exploration of community-directed programs to strengthen the conservation and enhancement of agricultural biodiversity. The CBDC website is http://www.cbdcprogram.org/. Source: ETC Group news release, April 1, 2003; ETC Communiqu, May/June 2003, Issue # 79. Contact: ETC Group, P.O. Box 68016 RPO, Osborne, Winnipeg MB R3L 2V9, Canada; phone (204) 453-5259; fax (204) 284-7871; Web site
Re: [biofuel] fuel tanks
Message: 7 Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:37:45 - From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: fuel tanks hi Lisa, I'm assuming you're talking about straight vegetable oil conversion, if you are talking about biodiesel then there's no conversion necessary. I thought there has to be at least a heater or something that is not normally there? SVO: two people I know just destroyed their 7.3 Fords' injection pumps running straight vegetable oil in these vehicles. I own this kind of F-250 (mine is a 6.9 but it's similar) and love it, running the VIN thru a decoder revealed the following about the engine: 7.3L V8 445cid Diesel FI OHV 16V Vin M although it takes a lot of fuel (but boy does it carry a lot of stuff). offlist, I'm hearing a figure of 18mpg on vegoil... does that seem realistic to you? (and I'm looking forward to the ability to carry stuff!) Anyway doing a little looking and a lot of asking, a few things came up about the seizures in my two friends' two Ford pumps- including the fact that the Stanadyne pumps in these(what year is yours?) it's not mine YET ;^) 1988 and the two tanks are really crying for a simple conversion. I thought as much, but wasn't sure if the setup was suitable... you know, sometimes stuff that sounds too good to be true, is! lol I don't know much about factory two-tank systems... I don't suppose I'd be lucky enough for one to be considerably larger than the other? (and on our trucks there's a built-in 12V fuel heater that might thin it out even more)- is that more or less standard on that model, or an upgrade? (i.e., aftermarket) Ed Beggs (who makes a fine SVO kit, his technology is what I'm thinking about putting into my truck) suggested also that my friends' failures have something to do with preexisting damage to the pumps due to both vehicles being from California and the fact that they've thus run on low-sulfur diesel longer than comperable vehicles in other states (and suffered more damage from this fuel). AFAIK, this truck has been an east-coaster all its life, so don't have to worry about that too much. (now, salt damage is another story...) Thanks! Lisa --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking at a truck with dual tanks. Is there any advantage (or disadvantage, for that matter) to buying a vehicle with a pre- existing 2-tank setup? Is there anything I should watch out for or ask the seller about? It's a Ford F-250 -- anybody had any experience with that model, good or bad? The only references I found in the archives were just- done or hope-to-do-soon conversions, so not much info on how it worked out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ZKLNcC/pEZFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] fuel tanks
I'm looking at a truck with dual tanks. Is there any advantage (or disadvantage, for that matter) to buying a vehicle with a pre-existing 2-tank setup? Is there anything I should watch out for or ask the seller about? It's a Ford F-250 -- anybody had any experience with that model, good or bad? The only references I found in the archives were just-done or hope-to-do-soon conversions, so not much info on how it worked out. Thanks! ~ ~Lisa~ ~ Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a better world. ~ Linus Pauling ~ Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. ~ Margaret Mead ~ in memory of Rachel Corrie, 1979-2003 http://www.palsolidarity.org/ To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. ~ (Republican!) President Theodore Roosevelt ~ Annoy a politician today -- THINK!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] banning the oil field illiteracy
The problem with oil field service is that the guys work so many hours, 60 to 80 a week is standard. How do they find time to study? This is the problem we find with many working illiterates, the jobs they get pay so poorly that they have to work tons of overtime to support a family. This leaves no time to learn new skills to get a better job. I wish I had the solution. Bright Blessings, Kim This situation reminds me of a Thomas Jefferson quote I recently discovered. Although it is geared toward governmental greed, it is striking how applicable the circumstances are to the modern condition known as wage slavery! If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; . And the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they do now, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains around the necks of our fellow sufferers; . And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second, that second for a third, and so on 'til the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering... . And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. . ~ Thomas Jefferson ~ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] washingtonpost.com: Effort Stalls To Pump Up Ethanol Use
a local TV station did a similar report -- you can see the video here: http://cf.nbc4.com/dc/sh/videoplayer/video.cfm?ID=1960251owner=dc I wish either of them would have been a bit more specific about what makes a vehicle suitable for using this fuel! It is interesting that 2 of the 3 pumps in the DC area seem to be restricted to military only (based on the locations of the 2 pumps, and the reference to the third pump being open to the public, which implies that the others are not). http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32480-2003Feb5?language=printer washingtonpost.com Effort Stalls To Pump Up Ethanol Use Group Finds Slow Going For Grain-Based Fuel By Annie Gowen Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, February 6, 2003; Page HO06 The first gas station pump in Maryland to dispense clean-burning ethanol -- a fuel made largely from corn or other grains -- opened in Laurel to great fanfare in November 2001. More than a year later, however, the pump is rarely used by motorists and has broken three times. It's been slow going, said Lynne Hoot, executive director of the Maryland Grain Producers Association, part of a group of farmers and environmentalists pushing for greater use of ethanol in the Washington region. So far, Hoot and others said, their campaign has been hindered by administrative glitches, lack of public awareness and resistance from major oil companies. In the last two years, the Grain Producers Association has obtained $330,000 in federal energy grants, plus $330,000 in state funds and other private donations, to support the ethanol effort in the region. The group had hoped to have 10 pumps in place in the Baltimore-Washington region by the end of last year. So far, though, there are only three: the one in Laurel, at Fort Meade Service Center in the 3200 block of Laurel Fort Meade Road; one at Navy Exchange Gas Station in the 800 block of South Joyce Street in Arlington County; and one run by Montgomery County and open to the public at the county's transportation depot in the 16600 block of Crabbs Branch Way in Rockville. Another is set to open this month at Citgo Quik Mart in the 2000 block of West Street in Annapolis, and pumps are planned in the District and Baltimore. More than 500,000 newer-model cars in the Washington region can run on ethanol fuel -- which mixes alcohol made from the corn and other grains with a small percentage of gasoline -- but the same vehicles also run on gasoline. Most owners of these eco-friendly cars fill their tanks at regular gasoline pumps because of the scarcity of ethanol pumps, said Jill Hamilton, an energy consultant to the Maryland farm group. Despite the problems, sales of the fuel have increased, Hamilton said. The amount of ethanol sold at the Citgo station in Arlington has increased from 1,000 gallons a month three years ago to 2,600 a month last year. The Laurel and Rockville stations have held steady at 5,000 and 2,000 gallons a month, respectively, Hamilton said. Since the 1970s, environmental activists, farmers and politicians from Corn Belt states have touted ethanol as an ecologically friendly alternative to gasoline. Congress began offering tax incentives to automakers for building cars using alternative power sources -- such as electricity or ethanol -- in the late 1980s. Although small percentages of ethanol have been blended into gasoline for years, the first fuel made of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline was introduced in 1993. Proponents tout ethanol as a naturally renewable resource that is produced domestically and reduces pollution and dependence on foreign oil. But the fuel is costly, with prices here ranging from 20 cents to 37 cents more per gallon than gasoline. It is available at just 120 locations in the United States. Environmental benefits of ethanol are widely debated. Critics say the production of ethanol wastes energy and is costly. They say the product's long-term viability is doubtful, especially as automakers explore other types of fuel-efficient cars, such as hybrid gas and electric models and cars that run on hydrogen fuel cells. In their group's quest to find station owners willing to install ethanol pumps, Hoot and Hamilton said, it had to focus on a small number of independently owned stations, because major oil companies were not interested. Oil industry experts say ethanol is not a proven moneymaker. In addition, many stations do not have storage capacity for more pumps, according to Peter Horrigan, president of the Mid- Atlantic Petroleum Distributors Association. The effort to market ethanol also has been complicated by the fact that most ethanol is made in the Midwest. Problems related to licensing and bonding agreements tied up Maryland's ethanol shipments for three months last year, Hamilton said, and the new pumps went dry. Ethanol proponents say they would like to see an ethanol production plant in Maryland within
Re: [biofuel] OT: Columbia Space Shuttle Lost
A NASA spokesperson was asked about that in an interview, and said that since Columbia was not on a mission to dock with the Space Station, it had been launched without the hardware necessary to make such a connection. He also openly speculated that that would not happen again! Lisa Message: 10 Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:22:54 +0300 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: OT: Columbia Space Shuttle Lost If they had determined in space that the Shuttle was not safe to return to earth the move would have been to send them to the Intl. Space Station where they could have docked and just sat it out until we could send a different shuttle to get most of them and if there were still two left up there in the Intl. Space Station they could be brought back in one of the Russian ships as they have three seats and can be flown by one person. They may also have been able to stay until the second shuttle arrival if that was determined to be the better solution. Keeping in mind that if the Columbia had been determined to be unsafe in space we may not have felt that it was required to ground the fleet until we have clear answers as to what the cause is and we would know the problem and cause from the information that was developed to determine that they should not try the reentry in it. Best regards, Vern Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bouncing
I started having a similar problem when my provider blackholed YahooGroups. Do you have a free email account you can route the messages to? If you use Yahoo, Hotmail, MyOwnEmail, or some other popular services, I know of a program that can pull the messages into OE so you don't have to use the web interface to read them. I hope you figure out something soon... web reading and posting is tedious at best! Lisa Message: 8 Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:52:41 - From: airdriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: bouncing Keith, I unbounce myself twice a day, lately. I also have times when it says I am normal, but if I try to post, the web site of the list will tell me I can't since I am bouncing. Yahell no longer agrees with itself! I am having better luck since I started posting from the web site, rather than just replying. Bright Blessings, Kim Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] at last... an unlimited free energy source?
A little alternative energy humor from today's Bonehead of the Day newsletter: http://bonehead.oddballs.com/ Today's nice comment from a nice person (Dennis, from Laurel, Missouri) Reading your newsletter has brought me to the unsettling realization that if, around the turn of the last century, someone had invented an engine that ran on stupidity, we'd probably have visited the entire galaxy by now. ~ ~Lisa~ ~ Annoy a politician today -- THINK!! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] An example of what we're up against
Thanks so much! I see James was good for some other pointed admonitions, too ;^) Glad you didn't leave out the others just because they were from different individuals... they're keepers! I'll be adding them to my collection, and passing them along to the editor of A-Changin' Times -- she's always on the lookout for witty one-liners (pre-researched is a bonus!) to (ahem) *prod* the sheeple to turn back into people... Message: 10 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:44:46 -0600 From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re: An example of what we're up against. But who was he? I googled over 100URLs for these and no bibliography info. de Juvenal was just under one of his and I couldn't leave it out. Kirk The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves. Dresden James http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/q136299.html When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. Dresden James http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/q136280.html Sacred cows make the best hamburgers. [Dresden James] http://www.therapure.com/quipsnquotes/beliefs.htm If the Federal government is not once again enslaved, the American people will be. -- Dresden James http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:wxOF-MZ4nZgC:www.fulltimefreedom. com/quotes.html+%22Dresden+James%22hl=enie=UTF-8 Better a sovereign in squalor than slave in splendor. --Dresden James -- -- A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves. --Betrand de Juvenal http://privateprofits.com/seminars/iget6.htm When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm beginning to believe it. - Clarence Darrow http://www.cornertheweb.com/cpop/interesting_quotes.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] a few questions for an Op Ed piece
Patience and intelligence may be part of the problem, but economics and greed are central -- Big Business (Big Oil mostly, plus the ADMs) are only supportive of things that will make them Big Money. I wonder sometimes what our lives would be like today if blacksmiths had had lobbyists about a century ago... Lisa Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: An example of what we're up against.
snip I absolutely agree it must be countered, but I am nearly burnt-out from countering this same stuff over and over. These are the guys who are as accepted as the Gospel. The rest of us are perceived as Blasphemous, and dismissed without ever listening to us. I am getting a reputation as a Crackpot for attempting to refute any of this 'stuff'. Those of us interested in alternative fuels are perceived in teh same light as those who have made claims for Over-Unity Devices. We aren't taken seriously by those who accept this 'stuff' as common knowledge. snip Here's a quote I use regularly in my sig line: A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn't the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn't flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. -- Dresden James (not sure who he was (is?), but gotta like the way he thinks!) Lisa Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] home heating
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:21:48 - From: dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: home heating to the person who wants to burn biod. or WVO, check out OMNI by Econo Heal Inc. they have a commercial grade boiler to burn SAE 10 -90 with no modifications and no external air compressor. they lower viscosity with pre heating. www.econoheat.com Cool... it's nice to know that somebody is trying to serve that market... BUT I find it a bit fishy that they don't post prices. If ya have to ask, ya can't afford it? BTW, the current unit *is* a boiler, which may or may not be interchangeable with furnace, which is what I mistakenly (always!) called the darn thing. I don't know if that makes a difference in the possibility of using WVO. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can't set a home heating oil furnace to burn more oil. You could change the nozzle size,i.e., a .8 to a 1.5, which means instead of burning 8/10th of a gallon, it burns 1.5 gallons, but nozzle sizes are set by the manufacturer of the furnace based on the size of the chamber. It is very unlikely a maintenance technician would alter this because it would be a liability. Hmmm, I'll have to check on that... I believe one of the things they claim to do (and charge us for!) is calibration or something to that effect. Is it possible that they mean something else with that term? Message: 9 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:55:21 +0900 From: EREN [EMAIL PROTECTED] (by way of Keith Addison) Subject: EREN Network News -- 10/9/02 snip EIA Expects Heating Bills to Increase Up to $300 This Winter snip The Northeast will be hit the hardest, as those using heating oil are forecast to face a 45 percent increase in heating bills. snip now you know why I ask about vegoil in the boiler... the last time fuel oil costs spiked (3 yrs ago?), the oil bills a couple of months topped *$500*! (and that was with the thermostat set below 60F!) Message: 18 Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:01:29 -0500 From: rgord [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: home heating BigK fuels in Toronto says with BD no mods are req'd. Check out their site - I e-mailed them and got prompt response, good faq on site as well -I'll have to check current prices it was at $0.45/litre http://www.bigkfuels.com/ Darn too bad I'm not close enough to do business with them! I found it interesting that they will provide a tank. I never considered the notion of the tank belonging to somebody else... could an oil co. confiscate your tank if you took your business elsewhere?! Message: 21 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:08:39 -0700 (PDT) From: mother [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: home heating since posting this question, i've gotten some more feedback (from a very reputable source) i'll share.. question posed was if buring biodiesel in standard oil furnace, if there were any modifications the needed to be made to furnace: ...the furnace should do fine. if burning 100% biodiesel shaft seals on furnace pump may need attention after a while... this, because BD is more lika solvent, so little rubber washers'll eventually get eaten through ... but, as far as the furnace itself, oil you buy from the heating company is called #2 heating oil, which is just diesel feul with a different name (and different taxes... which is why you never *see* a farmer syphon heating oil outta his furnance into his tractor, but you know he does!)... so if you hava source of good BD (no hushpuppy chips) and are willing to keep an eye on rubber parts on your furnace pump for corrosion, you should be good - i'm gonna giveitatry this year, will report back rj Sounds just like the rubber seal problems in engines... good to hear that they don't anticipate any exotic problems from furnaces/boilers. Wonder how much of a hassle it would be to do a pre-emptive replacement of the endangered rubber parts? Well, most of the info so far seems to point to BD only unless you have a unit specially designed to handle vegoil. :^( My first batch of BD has to be 250 gallons?! EEK! (kidding... I'm not THAT crazy!) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] home heating
Replying to a couple of different digests here... Message: 5 Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:23:12 - From: dikajane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: oil furnace greetings - i'm interested in using biodiesel in my oil furnace this winter - is there any modification i need to make to the furnace? i won't be burning homebrewed biodiesel, as i'm not really set up for that, but there is a company in my area (believe it or not) who sells the stuff at their gasstation for diesel engines, and who delivers! so this is commercial grade diesel, which as i understand it is interchangeable with #2 heating oil... any advise you could give would be much appreciated thx dj This topic sorta came up before, but I never really did get a grasp on what the options are with oil furnaces. Can they be adjusted to run on WVO, or does it *have to be* pure BD? Our furnace is getting its annual checkup on Friday, so if anyone knows of any adjustments that will allow it to run on WVO... speak now or forever hold your peace? (or at least til next year... lol) [Although it is the OIL COMPANY that is performing the service, so they may not be too keen to cut off their own business ;^)... I'm STILL trying to convince my husband that they set it so it burns more oil.] Message: 21 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 03:33:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Keith Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The yummy corn fails animal tests Where could you purchase this corn? I burn corn as a heat source and could kill two birds with one stone, lower costs for me and help to get rid of this junk. I live in Va. In this area, we have a bumper crop (so to speak) of drought-ravaged corn that apparently isn't even good for animal feed. Could this waste corn be burned in a common fireplace or woodstove? TIA Lisa Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mistake
Thank you all for a waste of my time. I thought by joining this group I may receive valuable information on BioDiesel for a project I am working on. Instead I read 50 emails a day from losers being hateful to each other at 4 am. It is very disappointing. So farewell, enjoy your pathetic ways. I will instead seek other avenues for my knowledge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
