Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS
Daily Show? Is satire over your head? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHAJOGLO Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:06 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] CEI runs PRO CARBON DIOXIDE ADS Clearly the solution is not to hate CEI, but to kill all of the gazelles; what with their nasty CO2 poluting ways. Its orginazations like CEI that keep the Daily Show in business. This is a joke...Right? I mean, surely ExxonMobil doesn't think that we are ALL THIS DUMB, RIGHT? The (surreal) videos of the 2 commercials: http://streams.cei.org/ Backed by ExxonMobil. Denialists with a vested interest. Resources: About CEI:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_Enterprise_Institute http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Competitive_Enterprise_Institute Reuters: http://tinyurl.com/jfdcb -- Thanks, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything. - Thomas A Edison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero
Anyone who finds a link to video and/or audio of the original please post it for us. Colberrr is well on his way to becoming this 21st century's H.L. Menken, who was the 20th century's S.L. Clemens. All masters of irony, thus the phrase rapier wit. Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:49 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:[Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero http://www.alternet.org/story/36067/ Stephen Colbert: New American Hero By Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted May 9, 2006. When Colbert turned up the heat on Washington's elite, he revealed the big split between those basking in power and those fighting for change. Virtually overnight, Stephen Colbert became a hero to countless Americans, following his April 30 performance at the White House Correspondents' Association dinner. Since then, millions of people have either watched the video or read the transcript of his skewering of both the president and the press corps, and have discussed it avidly. Tens of thousands of people have gone to the website ThankYouStephenColbert.com and written letters of appreciation. Talk about water-cooler chatter; the event crashed internet servers across the land. It truly was one of those moments of media shock and delight. And then, an odd but revealing thing happened. Some of the chattering class commentators, mainstream media writers and columnists, and Democratic officials didn't get it: Not very funny, rude, not respectful of the president, and so on. Are they kidding? How could they not understand they were witnessing one of the bravest, most subversive performances in memory, which thrilled and gave hope to untold viewers and readers, and will be a huge marker when people look back on the Bush era? Colbert's speech had a huge impact for two reasons: First, he spoke truth to power right to the face of the president, in front of the entire news media. No one could miss, sidestep or deny it. It wasn't a scene from a movie, book or talk show -- it was live. It reminded me of Edward R. Murrow's famous address to the Radio and Television News Directors Association (recently depicted in the film Good Night and Good Luck). It gave me goose bumps. Colbert's performance shamed every Democrat or columnist who has been too afraid, too timid, or just too worried about losing his or her own power and access to go out on a limb and tell the truth that this administration is a disaster beyond our wildest nightmares. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove have gotten away with murder and worse. And many of the people in that room that night who squirmed in their seats -- it was in part because of the internal indictment they were feeling for not doing what they should have done, countless times, long before. Maybe now they will do the right thing, but I won't be holding my breath. The second reason Colbert made such a huge splash is the rapid advance of video on the web. Almost overnight, the media world has irrevocably changed as video is increasingly becoming as important as print and still images on the web. When, in a matter of hours, dozens of websites can post or link to a video and get the word out about a spectacular event, the role of the gatekeepers and the corporate media shrinks big-time. And it doesn't matter if the networks or CNN or Fox decides that they don't want you to see it -- they can't stop it. The people's network is now in working order. Progressives now have a television capacity; still rudimentary, perhaps, but powerfully effective. The press leaks The press coverage of the Colbert performance was illuminating, as reported by the popular blog, democratic underground: Expect nothing less from the cowardly American media. This demonstrates powerfully the ability of the media to choose the news, and to decide when and how to shield Bush from negative publicity. Sins of omission can be just as bad as sins of commission. The AP's first stab at it, as well as Reuters and the Chicago Tribune, tell us everything we need to know: In these reports, Colbert's performance is sidestepped and marginalized, while President Bush is depicted as lighthearted, humble and witty. Salon's Joan Walsh points out, Colbert's deadly performance did more than reveal, with devastating clarity, how Bush's well-oiled myth machine works. It exposed the mainstream press' pathetic collusion with an administration that has treated it -- and the truth -- with contempt from the moment it took office. Intimidated, coddled, fearful of violating propriety, the press corps that for years dutifully repeated Bush talking points was stunned and horrified when someone dared to reveal that the media emperor had no clothes. Colbert refused to play his dutiful, toothless part in the White House correspondents' dinner -- an incestuous, backslapping ritual that should be retired. For that, he had to be marginalized.
Re: [Biofuel] rechargeable aluminum batteries..bacteria powered fuelcell
Do you really believe that a company which has the word positron in its name and does not own and operate a particle-accelerator is for real? This is even better than the water fueled vehicle that works in the Philippines because the legislature there repealed the fundamental laws of thermodynamics. GASOH, Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AltEnergyNetwork Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:29 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:[Biofuel] rechargeable aluminum batteries..bacteria powered fuelcell Rechargeable aluminium batteries providing up to 20 times more capacity than current batteries. http://www.europositron.com/en/index.html Bacteria powered fuel cell http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/2808 Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero
Yeah, I saw, but I get an access denied message. Looking for an open link. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:09 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero Anyone who finds a link to video and/or audio of the original please post it for us. Colberrr is well on his way to becoming this 21st century's H.L. Menken, who was the 20th century's S.L. Clemens. All masters of irony, thus the phrase rapier wit. Michael D. Mindock posted it: I watched the two parts of the video at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all; address=364x1062761Democratic Underground. Dubya is seriously roasted. Peace, D. Mindock This is utterly amazing. Stephen Colbert is one brave truth-telling guy! I LOVE IT!!! Hooray for Helen Thomas, as well. I hope you enjoy, too. Thanks, Ellen! Now I've got to go watch the video...laughing all the way, jeannie p.s. I REALLY REALLY recommend watching the video at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all; address=364x1062761Democratic Underground. Please note there are two links, one for each of two parts.jb Re-Improved Colbert transcript (now with complete text of Colbert-Thomas video!) Best Keith snip -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:49 PM To:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Stephen Colbert: New American Hero http://www.alternet.org/story/36067/ Stephen Colbert: New American Hero By Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted May 9, 2006. When Colbert turned up the heat on Washington's elite, he revealed the big split between those basking in power and those fighting for change. Virtually overnight, Stephen Colbert became a hero to countless Americans, following his April 30 performance at the White House Correspondents' Association dinner. Since then, millions of people have either watched the video or read the transcript of his skewering of both the president and the press corps, and have discussed it avidly. Tens of thousands of people have gone to the website ThankYouStephenColbert.com and written letters of appreciation. Talk about water-cooler chatter; the event crashed internet servers across the land. It truly was one of those moments of media shock and delight. And then, an odd but revealing thing happened. Some of the chattering class commentators, mainstream media writers and columnists, and Democratic officials didn't get it: Not very funny, rude, not respectful of the president, and so on. Are they kidding? How could they not understand they were witnessing one of the bravest, most subversive performances in memory, which thrilled and gave hope to untold viewers and readers, and will be a huge marker when people look back on the Bush era? Colbert's speech had a huge impact for two reasons: First, he spoke truth to power right to the face of the president, in front of the entire news media. No one could miss, sidestep or deny it. It wasn't a scene from a movie, book or talk show -- it was live. It reminded me of Edward R. Murrow's famous address to the Radio and Television News Directors Association (recently depicted in the film Good Night and Good Luck). It gave me goose bumps. Colbert's performance shamed every Democrat or columnist who has been too afraid, too timid, or just too worried about losing his or her own power and access to go out on a limb and tell the truth that this administration is a disaster beyond our wildest nightmares. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rove have gotten away with murder and worse. And many of the people in that room that night who squirmed in their seats -- it was in part because of the internal indictment they were feeling for not doing what they should have done, countless times, long before. Maybe now they will do the right thing, but I won't be holding my breath. The second reason Colbert made such a huge splash is the rapid advance of video on the web. Almost overnight, the media world has irrevocably changed as video is increasingly becoming as important as print and still images on the web. When, in a matter of hours, dozens of websites can post or link to a video and get the word out about a spectacular event, the role of the gatekeepers and the corporate media shrinks big-time. And it doesn't matter if the networks or CNN or Fox decides that they don't want you to see it -- they can't stop it. The people's network is now in working order. Progressives now have a television capacity; still rudimentary, perhaps, but powerfully effective. The press leaks The press coverage of the Colbert performance was illuminating, as reported by the popular blog, democratic underground: Expect nothing less from the cowardly American media. This demonstrates powerfully the ability of the media
Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol?
Other than water in the WVO and Methanol there are at least two other sources: Atmospheric water vapor tries to establish equilibrium with everything (including all feedstock and reagents used in the BD process). The catalyst widely used in homebrew, dissolved lye in methyl alcohol, has an equilibrium reaction to/from Sodium Methylate and water. NaOH + CH3OH = NaOCH3 + H2O Sodium Methylate is the catalyst used in an acid/base industrial process for which my employer is constructing the plant. The customers engineer is specifically using this, rather than lye in alcohol, due to that water molecule seen above and the general lower yield associated. http://www.dupont.com/sodium/naome.html describes it. http://www.inorganics.basf.com/p02/CAPortal/en_GB/portal/Biodiesel_layout_b/content/Produktgruppen/Biodiesel/Biodiesel/Katalysatoren (this is BASF) has more info on industrial biodiesel catalysts. Michael -Original Message- From: Jonathan Schearer I am probably missing something, but where would the water be coming from in the first place? Isn't the waste oil you start with not supposed to contain any water, and if it does, you need to boil it off? Then there's the methanol. It should not contain any water either. I don't believe the catalyst would contain any water either. It is the waste glycerin layer that contains most of the methanol, correct? I have been told that the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked. So I'm asking...where is the water coming from? Michael Gian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In additon, a fractionating column requires a reflux, the partial return and recycling of distillate product from the condenser back down the fractionating column which increases the energy tax (energy costs) of purifying the methanol. This is true for tray towers. A more elegant setup is a packed fractionating column, aka reflux column. Years ago we made one packed with small glass beads for jewelry, picked up cheap at a garage sale. Ethanol production, in this case not intended to fuel machinery. What works for ethanol will work for methanol, probably better, given no water azeotrope. Alcohol Fuel Manual Ch11 has the poop. Michael Gian Mike McGinness bob allen wrote: without getting into excessive detail, the boiling point of a mixture is the weighted average of the stuff present. At first you have pure methanol coming off. as the temperature rose, increasing amounts of water contaminated the alcohol. You need a fractionating column to obtain pure methanol. Joe Street wrote: 3A sieves will work but are normally used for getting tiny amounts of water out of solvents to bring them into the low ppm range. They will work of course but you might saturate them and have to do a second stage. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. You have answered some of my own questions. I have recovered some methanol but not tried to use it yet. Sounds like if straight distillation is carefully done the methanol is dry enough to use without further drying. Great news and thanks for the post! :) I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Good day to all, After splitting the glycerine coproduct from roughly 1200L of processed WVO, I distilled approximately 100L of the glycerine/methanol component. The first drops of methanol began to fall from the condenser at 145F. As the temp rose to 150F there was a steady flow of clear liquid from the condenser. Throughout the day I turned the heat off when the flow was steady and back on when it slowed. I filled a 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubie with clear liquid and started a second one. At this point the temp was over 160F. I let the still run up to 200F. At this point the second cubie had 4 gallons of clear liquid (and it was now 1AM) giving a total of 8.5 gal. I was thrilled with the result (and tired). I used the first 4.5 gal (17.7L) to run one batch, and while that was settling ran a second batch using the second 4 gal of recovered methanol. The first batch washed OK, but was a little slow to separate. It failed the methanol quality test. The second batch did not even pass the wash test. I have been making consistenly high quality BD for several months ... thank you JtF and list members. I don't think I made mistakes in measurement or titration. My question: As my distillation temps rose towards 200F (93C) could I have been including water in my distillate? (The methanol recovered at lower temps performed better than
[Biofuel] JtF website?
What happened to journeytoforever.org? Has it been hijacked? Michael ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol?
In additon, a fractionating column requires a reflux, the partial return and recycling of distillate product from the condenser back down the fractionating column which increases the energy tax (energy costs) of purifying the methanol. This is true for tray towers. A more elegant setup is a packed fractionating column, aka reflux column. Years ago we made one packed with small glass beads for jewelry, picked up cheap at a garage sale. Ethanol production, in this case not intended to fuel machinery. What works for ethanol will work for methanol, probably better, given no water azeotrope. Alcohol Fuel Manual Ch11 has the poop. Michael Gian Mike McGinness bob allen wrote: without getting into excessive detail, the boiling point of a mixture is the weighted average of the stuff present. At first you have pure methanol coming off. as the temperature rose, increasing amounts of water contaminated the alcohol. You need a fractionating column to obtain pure methanol. Joe Street wrote: 3A sieves will work but are normally used for getting tiny amounts of water out of solvents to bring them into the low ppm range. They will work of course but you might saturate them and have to do a second stage. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. You have answered some of my own questions. I have recovered some methanol but not tried to use it yet. Sounds like if straight distillation is carefully done the methanol is dry enough to use without further drying. Great news and thanks for the post! :) I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Good day to all, After splitting the glycerine coproduct from roughly 1200L of processed WVO, I distilled approximately 100L of the glycerine/methanol component. The first drops of methanol began to fall from the condenser at 145F. As the temp rose to 150F there was a steady flow of clear liquid from the condenser. Throughout the day I turned the heat off when the flow was steady and back on when it slowed. I filled a 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubie with clear liquid and started a second one. At this point the temp was over 160F. I let the still run up to 200F. At this point the second cubie had 4 gallons of clear liquid (and it was now 1AM) giving a total of 8.5 gal. I was thrilled with the result (and tired). I used the first 4.5 gal (17.7L) to run one batch, and while that was settling ran a second batch using the second 4 gal of recovered methanol. The first batch washed OK, but was a little slow to separate. It failed the methanol quality test. The second batch did not even pass the wash test. I have been making consistenly high quality BD for several months ... thank you JtF and list members. I don't think I made mistakes in measurement or titration. My question: As my distillation temps rose towards 200F (93C) could I have been including water in my distillate? (The methanol recovered at lower temps performed better than the methanol recovered at higher temps.) If so, can I use Zeolite molecular sieves in the future to remove it? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined
Re: [Biofuel] Chemical Grades
Chris, Your results can be no more accurate than the relative purity of the reagents used in the analysis. For instance: if the reagent is pure to 0.1% the best you can claim is three significant figures on your result. Actual accuracy will be less once you consider in the accuracy of the measurements you make and that of the indicators used. Lab grade will put you in the right ballpark, but may not be good enough for legal, documented, certification. Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Tan Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 1:37 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Chemical Grades To Prof. Bob Allen, I plan to compare the relative completeness of the reaction of several recipes by measuring total glycerol. Is it okay to use laboratory grade chemicals for the analysis instead of reagent or ACS grade? Will the impurities in lab grade chemicals significantly interfere with the results? Reagent and ACS grade chemicals cost so much. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
D,. Sorry for the top-post, but I am not sure how to interleave this effectively. About six hours before your post Keith also responded: Do you think people just aren't seeing it straight, that it's the same kind of problem as the famous hot coffee case that cost McDonald's millions? Best Keith I have spent a full day's amount of time considering and reconsidering my reaction to this occurrence. I do not see it as a McSue at all. It is not frivolous. The situation, without first-hand knowledge, boils down to two reasonable scenarios: 1. The passerby saw the car in the ditch, did not consider that it was a recent accident, did not get out and investigate on foot, but reported what was seen at a distance to the local authorities. 2. The passerby knew that there was an injured person in the wreck, called it in accurately, and left. Number 2 requires both the passerby and the authorities to be selfishly callous. I, personally, do not believe that everyday people in this chain have this in their hearts. Number 1 fits the story and its conclusion. The passerby did not communicate any urgency to the authorities, just that there was a car in the ditch. I was mainly upset that folks can assume that their personal responsibilities can be transferred to a third party. More so upset that if the third party does not meet their expectations that the liability falls there, not with the originator. I truly believe that nobody involved in leaving Doris Hayes's body in the ditch for three days did so with complete knowledge of the circumstances. If they had known they would have acted more reasonably. All of our government employees are just the same people as we all are. They have no agenda to be willfully incompetent for the sole purpose of oppressing us. Us is them, too. Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Mindock Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 4:03 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless Michael, What if the person making the call was an elderly, frail person who faints at the sight of blood? Maybe the caller was on an emergency trip and had no time to stop. I think you're a bit too quick to defend the establishment without knowing all the facts. The fact that immunity alone was used as a defense says a lot about the case. If there was a legitimate excuse, don't you think the establishment would have used it? They knew that the defense of immunity would raise the hackles of the community. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Michael Gian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless Once again I repeat myself, this time with the transcript attached to keep anyone who cares on track. Did the person who called in the accident rightly feel that rendering aid only consists of placing a phone call (perhaps one not totally clear as to the actual circumstances) and then driving off as a morally correct action? What in the phrase rendering aid was not understood? If you were in a wreck and someone with a cell phone in hand asked if they could help and you said sure. Then they said I'll call 911, but see-ya, good luck, would you feel good? Would you do this to someone in need and still feel good about yourself. Sure, the local community has a deeper pocket than the AH who drove off, so there is where to try and sue. Any successful lawyer will advise you of that. But blame the marginally paid 911 operators with (possibly) poor information? Get real on who is negligent. Michael ... and this really pisses me off. Hate the establishment, yet blame them when we (a supposed community) personally fail. Time to grow-up folks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:14 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless File: death10a.gif File: haysd.jpggraphic=1 File: ATT00216.txt sorry, i never considered that someone would lock archives... kind of defeats the purpose. April 20, 2006; 12:15 p.m. High court rules against Hays family Comment on this article By Stephanie Sievers, Springfield bureau Photo: Terry Herbig This stretch of road along U.S. 150 is the area where the body of Doris Hayes, Orion, was discovered. She was found outside her car, which had run off the road and into a deep ravine on the east side of U.S. 150, about a mile and a half south of Coal Valley. More photos from this shoot Graphic: Submitted Doris Hays SPRINGFIELD - The Illinois Supreme Court has sided with local law enforcement
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:29 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:[Biofuel] I always new they were worthless http://qconline.com/archives/qco/sections.cgi?prcss=displayid=284986 check this, if it doesnt give you the impression that the forces of law are bad i dont know what will. Shame on the passerby whose idea of rendering aid is to make one phone call and then leave the scene. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless
Once again I repeat myself, this time with the transcript attached to keep anyone who cares on track. Did the person who called in the accident rightly feel that rendering aid only consists of placing a phone call (perhaps one not totally clear as to the actual circumstances) and then driving off as a morally correct action? What in the phrase rendering aid was not understood? If you were in a wreck and someone with a cell phone in hand asked if they could help and you said sure. Then they said I'll call 911, but see-ya, good luck, would you feel good? Would you do this to someone in need and still feel good about yourself. Sure, the local community has a deeper pocket than the AH who drove off, so there is where to try and sue. Any successful lawyer will advise you of that. But blame the marginally paid 911 operators with (possibly) poor information? Get real on who is negligent. Michael ... and this really pisses me off. Hate the establishment, yet blame them when we (a supposed community) personally fail. Time to grow-up folks! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:14 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] I always new they were worthless File: death10a.gif File: haysd.jpggraphic=1 File: ATT00216.txt sorry, i never considered that someone would lock archives... kind of defeats the purpose. April 20, 2006; 12:15 p.m. High court rules against Hays family Comment on this article By Stephanie Sievers, Springfield bureau Photo: Terry Herbig This stretch of road along U.S. 150 is the area where the body of Doris Hayes, Orion, was discovered. She was found outside her car, which had run off the road and into a deep ravine on the east side of U.S. 150, about a mile and a half south of Coal Valley. More photos from this shoot Graphic: Submitted Doris Hays SPRINGFIELD - The Illinois Supreme Court has sided with local law enforcement, ruling today they were immune from liability even though they failed to come to the aid of Doris Hays, an Orion woman who died after a car accident. The 68-year-old woman died in 2002 after she wrecked her car on U.S. 150 near the Henry/Rock Island county line. A passerby called for help and the message was relayed to multiple law enforcement agencies, but no help ever arrived. Hays' body wasn't found until three days later. Her sister, Mary DeSmet, filed a wrongful-death lawsuit against a number of defendants, including Rock Island County and Sheriff Michael Grchan, Henry County and Sheriff Gilbert Cady, Orion, Moline and East Moline. The state's highest court agreed with lower courts that the lawsuit should be dismissed. The court found that although people have a right to expect police to respond to such a situation, authorities weren't liable under the Tort Immunity Act, which protects governmental entities and employees from lawsuits. There is an exception for willful and wanton behavior, but since law enforcement never responded or tried to enforce the law, that exception didn't apply in this case, wrote Justice Lloyd Karmeier, who penned the majority opinion. Ms. Hays' family appealed to the state's highest court after lower-level courts threw out the case on the grounds that governmental entities and employees were protected against the lawsuit by the Tort Immunity Act. Michael Rathsack, the appellate attorney for the family, said that, while lawmakers wanted to protect such groups from legal liability, the Hays case probably isn't what they had in mind. 'I don't think the legislature ever thought that somebody would call and they would say, 'We'll come,' and they don't come. That's the problem. We're trying to look at a statute that was never designed to address the situation,' he said. Law enforcement is granted fairly broad lawsuit protection even when it fails to provide adequate service. Mr. Rathsack was asking the Illinois Supreme Court to decide if that immunity should cover providing no service at all. Robert Noe, a Moline attorney representing Rock Island County, Sheriff Grchan and emergency services dispatcher Myrtle DeWitte, argued that no police response is the same as an inadequate response, which is protected. He also said that, by the time the call was relayed to Rock Island County, dispatchers were only told that a car was in a ditch. Posted online: April 20, 2006 9:30 PM Print publication date: April 21, 2006 Illinois Supreme Courts rules in favor of law enforecement in Hays' suit By Stephanie Sievers, [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPRINGFIELD -- The Illinois Supreme Court has
Re: [Biofuel] Bring the Sixties Out of the Closet
-Original Message- From: mark manchester snip My Grandmother was sent to a convent when she was four, and never came back! Grandpa? A priest? GASOH, Michael ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
