Re: [Biofuel] EE Times: MIT claims 24/7 solar power
Great technology. Here's the article from the MIT News Office: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html. Peter Quoting Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=209900956cid=NL_eet AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE HELP
LOL, this is great!On Jun 1, 2006, at 4:26 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:I would like to encourage each and everyone of you to seriously consider the charity described below. Now that the holiday season has passed, please look into your heart to help those in need. Enron executives in our very own country are living at or just below the seven-figure salary level. More tragic, they will be deprived of it as a result of the bankruptcy and current SEC investigation. But now, you can help! For only $20,835 a month*, about $694.50 a day (that's less than the cost of a large screen projection TV) you can help an Enron executive remain economically viable during his time of need. Almost $700 may not seem like a lot of money to you, but to an Enron exec it could mean the difference between vacationing in Fiji and owning it. It will enable him or her to trade in the year-old Lexus for a new Ferrari without jeopardizing those jealously guarded "retirement" accounts in Switzerland and the Caymans. To you, seven hundred dollars is nothing more than rent, a car note, or a second mortgage payment. Each month, you will receive a complete financial report on the exec you sponsor. Detailed information about his/ her stocks, bonds, 401(k), real estate, and other investment holdings will be mailed to your home. Imagine the joy as you watch your executive's portfolio grow exponentially--and that's just his disclosed assets! Plus, upon signing up for this program, you will receive a photo of the exec (unsigned) - for a signed photo, please include an additional $50.00. Put the photo on your refrigerator to remind you of other people's suffering. Your Enron exec will be told that he/she has a SPECIAL FRIEND who just wants to help in a time of need. Although the exec won't know your name, he or she will be able to make collect calls to your home via a special operator just in case additional funds are needed for unexpected expenses. And there will be those. As poor Mrs. Ley so sincerely reported, her husband somehow managed to misplace over $100 million that he received in just the last 2 years. Stephen King couldn't script a scenario more frightening. I'd write more, but I'm having trouble seeing through my tears. Thank you for your _expression_ of love. *Per special regulation passed in closed session this past year, contributions are tax-deductible only to recipients. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
You would think at 8000 watts per square meter the projected cost of 25% of current Si cells is pretty conservative. Peter From:"Zeke Yewdall" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technologyDate:Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:31:17 -0700It'll be nice to see some actual modules from that.It sounds similarto the Copper Indium DiSelenide modules that Siemens was producing,but with slightly different chemicals.Unfortuneatly, every sort ofthin film PV that has been developed in the past 10 years has beentrumpeted as being the great cost breakthrough in PV, because it usesso little raw material and can be deposited on any surface.So far,they all cost about $4/watt, jjust like the crystalline PVI hopethey can live up to the hype this time.On 2/17/06, Peter Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology? Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question; JoeFirst of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100$/Wp. Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost). At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp. Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household? Let me explain this through an example: Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month. Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh. So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400 (this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!) Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply: Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4 The peak-wattage of the module = W watts So the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30 Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000 This gives us, W = 8333 Wp. So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module. Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998. This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above. Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp. If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500. This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400. There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values.Michael Redler wrote:My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. Mike Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at lea
Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
oopscan't type80 watts per meter squared ! (not nearly so good...lol) From: "Peter Morgan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technologyDate: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:23:32 + You would think at 8000 watts per square meter the projected cost of 25% of current Si cells is pretty conservative. Peter From:"Zeke Yewdall" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technologyDate:Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:31:17 -0700It'll be nice to see some actual modules from that.It sounds similarto the Copper Indium DiSelenide modules that Siemens was producing,but with slightly different chemicals.Unfortuneatly, every sort ofthin film PV that has been developed in the past 10 years has beentrumpeted as being the great cost breakthrough in PV, because it usesso little raw material and can be deposited on any surface.So far,they all cost about $4/watt, jjust like the crystalline PVI hopethey can live up to the hype this time.On 2/17/06, Peter Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology? Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question; JoeFirst of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100$/Wp. Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost). At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp. Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household? Let me explain this through an example: Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month. Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh. So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400 (this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!) Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply: Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4 The peak-wattage of the module = W watts So the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30 Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000 This gives us, W = 8333 Wp. So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module. Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998. This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above. Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp. If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500. This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400. There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values.Michael Redler wrote:My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. Mike
[Biofuel] new highly efficient solarpower technology
Here is a link describing the cost performance and composition of the new solar cells developed by Professor Alberts in Africa. http://cooltech.iafrica.com/features/508857.htm Best Regards, Peter From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solarpower technology?Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:19:24 -0500 Here is a primer for anyone interested in PV technologies that describes how one should approach the question in terms of cost and payback period which was written by a colleague of mine recently in response to just such a question;JoeFirst of all, PV modules are generally marked in terms of peak-wattage (Wp). This indicates the maximum wattage they can deliver. For example, a 100 Wp solar module means it is capable of delivering a maximum of 100W power. If that module costs X dollars, then we say the PV cost is X/100 $/Wp.Crystalline silicon based solar modules usually come with a 20-25 year guarantee. This means, once purchased, they can be operational for this long. (maybe with a very small maintenance cost).At present crystalline Si (which dominates 85% of the PV market) PV modules cost some 5-7 $/Wp.Now the question is, what does this mean to a Canadian household?Let me explain this through an example:Consider a Canadian household that uses 1000 kWh of electricity per month.Take the current electricity cost as 6 cents/kWh.So for a total period of 20 years, the electricity cost for that household is: 20 x 12 x 1000 x 0.06 = $14400(this is of course assuming the electricity cost and value of money don't change over 20 years!)Now let's see the costs if the same household utilizes the PV energy (with a 20-year guarantee) for electricity supply:Say, the average full sunlight hours per day = 4The peak-wattage of the module = W wattsSo the total kWh that can be delivered by this module in 1 month = 4 x (W/1000) x 30Since the household needs 1000 kWh/month, we have, 4 x (W/1000) x 30 = 1000This gives us, W = 8333 Wp.So the household has to purchase a 8333 Wp PV module.Taking an average price of 6$/Wp, this will cost 6 x 8333 = $49998.This is of course much higher than the $14400 we found above.Therefore, the PV cost has to be brought down from the current 5 -7 $/Wp.If the PV cost is, say, 1.5 $/Wp, the above calculation yields a value of $12500.This value is very competitive to the grid electricity cost of $14400.There are two aspects in the cost of PV cells: the silicon material cost and the fabrication technology cost. RD efforts should be focused on reducing both these costs. For photovoltaic devices, the semiconductor material quality doesn't need to be as high as in the case of microelectronic industry for IC fabrication. Attempts should be made to use moderate quality (and therefore, low cost) silicon materials for PV fabrication. However moderate quality silicon contains material defects and impurities. Therefore research efforts should also be focused on developing affordable techniques for defect passivation of the low-cost materials, on new cell designs (i.e., novel device structures) that maximize the energy conversion efficiency, and on low-cost fabrication technologies for solar cells. By tackling both these issues, i.e, material cost-reduction and technology cost-reduction, the PV cost can be brought down to competitive values.Michael Redler wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, while I would like to to find out more about the alloy solar cells, the rest of the marketing is a bit disengenous. Grid tied PV systems that can provide all of a homes power and interface directly with the existing wiring have been around for at least 5 or 10 years, and the PV to provide the power has been around for 25 years. Get with the times people. It's like trying to sell a new model of car, and touting the fact that it has doors and seatbelts and a radio as major new selling points too... duh. On 2/17/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds like great news. However, I was disappointed not to see specific informationabout performanceor expectedcost per Watt for the consumer. Can anyoneprovide additional information? Thanks. MikeDoug Kalmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a bit more to the article. The person who posted it ona list couldn't find hardly anything other than this one article. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1click_id=116art_id=vn2006020132138C184427 In a scientific breakthrough that has stunned the world, a team of SouthAfrican scientists has developed a revolutionary new, highly efficient solarpower technology that will enable homes to obtain all their electricity fromthe sun.The unique South African-developed solar panels will make
Re: [Biofuel] modified sine and sine wave inverters
Hopefully you got a straight answer by now! If you know what a sine wave is, then the modified one could be described as a series of varying amplitute pulses that approximate the shape of a sine wave. Mike Weaver wrote: Cheap junky inverter vs. good inverter, not to put too fine a point on it... Chris lloyd wrote: I'm not off grid but use modified sine wave. What do you mean by modified sine wave? Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] modified sine and sine wave inverters
Sorry, I didn't catch all the previous thread! Any of you have experience with just having a modified sine wave powering computer equipment? My immediate goal, if it doesn't cost too much!, is to have an inverter powered from the battery with a charger to the grid. Mainly to provide a kind of UPS. Eventually that will be expanded and hopefully get a solar panel to hook up. I'm on the road all the time and not home, so when we get an outage, I'd like to be able to keep the computer up. Mike Weaver wrote: I'm not off grid but use modified sine wave. If I had it to do over I would have bought the pure. Sten Armstrong wrote: we started with a modified sine wave inverter with our first stand alone solar power system. lost several appliances because of it, washing machines especially seemed to dislike it. our new sine wave inverter cost a lot more but it works better and we haven't lost any appliances. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Also look up the difference between modified sine wave and pure sine wave inverters Ken Riznyk wrote: I would have to second the comments on the need for deep cycle batteries and not regular automotive batteries. You will also need to get a current inverter that is not made for use in an automobile. The inverters used with automobiles are designed to shut off while you still have enough current in your battery to start your car. This is a benefit if you are out camping and don't want to totally discharge your car battery, but not useful especially if you are lugging batteries back and forth to charge them up. Ken --- Darryl McMahon wrote: __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/local/*http://au.local.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A new website
If anyone has had difficulties loading a distro, I'd like to make a high recommendation for Ubuntu. My company just gave us new Dell D610 laptops and the latest Ubuntu loaded right up! I'm very impressed with this distro! Formerly I had run run Debian on the old laptop. I currently run Mandrake 9.1 at home and will upgrade to Ubuntu when I get back. My home PC is strictly Linux. Doug Foskey wrote: Rafal, congratulations on being part of the Samba team! I am constantly amazed how many Biodiesel list members are involved with Open Source software. A comment to others on Linux: there is now a move by the major Linux developers to standardise the way that Linux is seen by programs, so the old issues of differing packages for different flavours of Linux will then be a thing of the past. The common Linux desktop is ever closer. regards Doug On Thursday 27 October 2005 9:20, Rafal Szczesniak wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 03:08:26PM -0600, Zeke Yewdall wrote: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A new website
Actually, give Ubuntu a try. It's a no brainer. You can set it to dual boot real easy. And it works on my company's laptop that has the 'latest' video drivers. I did have to hunt for a suitable distro since the current debian couldn't start X, but Ubuntu does! Jason and Katie wrote: i would be more than happy to use Linux, but i dont have the time to sit down and LEARN it. all the coding options and different ways to configure it, i would definitely spend as much time repairing my mistakes as i would configuring my computer, and quite frankly, if i want to do that, i'd have to take a years vacation. it may even be completely idiot proof, but im just that special kind of idiot that manages to find a way to screw it up. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Start Up Problems
THANKS CHRIS - I CAREFULLY DECANT FROM THE TOP OF BOTTLE LEAVING SETTLED (DEFINITE SEPERATION) AT BOTTOM. BIO IS CLOUDY BUT THE LONGER IT SITS THE CLEARER IT BECOMES. WHY USE 2.5G I THOUGHT I HAD TO USE 3.5G FOR VIRGIN OIL? REGARDS PETER FOM OZ - Original Message - From: Chris To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Start Up Problems Everything sounds good, although perhaps you could use 2.5 gms lye. You never say that you pull off the biodiesel from the glycerol though. It is so obvious that you may have not mentioned it. But, if you are not doing it, that's it. What does the biodiesel look like after separation? Chris KCayce, SC - Original Message - From: Peter Currie To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 6:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Start Up Problems G'day group it is with great embarrassment that l have my first post. For 3 months l have been doing test batches (lost Count how many) and still cannot past shake test. Methanol - From a drag racers 44 gallon drum - best apparently Lye - Tiny pearls 99+ - fresh - then flake Oil - supermarket virgin oil Deep cooker filled with water with thermo (bottling type to 120 deg. C ) Drill stand above 2Lt glass jar tall with narrow neck with screw top lid with hole for paint stirrer Have tried lots of combinations re mixing time (1hr to 2.5 hr) Mixing speed - slow to fast amounts of lye - 2.7g to 4.2g per lt amounts of methanol 200ml to 250ml per lt types of oil - canola , blended edible all say 100% unused After process the product separates nicely and after waiting 12-24 hours do shake test with rain water (all l have) usually it takes hours to separate with a thick layer in-between of white fluffy cloud like stuff (.5 inch thick) The pearl variety of lye dissolves quickly but is hazy whereas the flake is crystal clear. Am heating oil to 55 c then adding methoxide then stirring maint temp throughout. Have read and reread JTF site and archives but nothing leaps out as obvious, my process seems correct, my materials seem correct but l'm starting to feel Very stupid. Is there something on this side of the planet that l'm not aware of?. Also would be very keen to talk - SEE setup working in Melbourne Aust. I'm in the Dandenongs. Any advice would be appreciated, thankyou Regards Peter from Oz ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 4/10/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Start Up Problems
- Original Message - From: Kurt Nolte To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Start Up Problems Something I keep hitting over and over in all my prelim test batches (Still haven't made one any bigger than a liter...): How's your humidity, and are you absolutely certain that your weights for the lye are accurate? EARLY SPRING - LOW HUMIDITY- $300 DIGITAL SCALES- CHECKED OK I was having some huge problems with emulsions on a shake test, and with the scale I just recently purchased (Jeweler's scale, up to 500g) I discovered just how inaccurate my old one was; I was using way too much lye, and taking far too long to measure it out. It was absorbing a great deal of water from the atmosphere (70%+ humidity is a constant here). How big are your test batches? 1LT The full 2L capacity, or are you only doing 1L batches? I eventually moved to smaller batches so I could measure out my lye quicker, it helped a bit. My current test batches I mix up in a small 400mL Mason-type canning jar, 300mL of oil to about 75mL of Methanol, and just use a hot water bath to bring it to temperature, shake it for ten or fifteen minutes, put it back in the bath for ten, shake fifteen soak ten, and so on for about an hour and half. Produced some very clear, clean-looking results so far. .Have you tried heating up your wash water before doing the shake test? That also helped... I'm slowly, very slowly progressing back up to full sized test batches while I gather parts. HAVE BEEN USEING COLD WATER - WILL GO DO A WARM TEST NOWHoped some of this helps!-Kurt THANKS KURT WILL POST RESULTS On 10/15/05, Peter Currie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day group it is with great embarrassment that l have my first post. For 3 months l have been doing test batches (lost Count how many) and still cannot past shake test. Methanol - From a drag racers 44 gallon drum - best apparently Lye - Tiny pearls 99+ - fresh - then flake Oil - supermarket virgin oil Deep cooker filled with water with thermo (bottling type to 120 deg. C ) Drill stand above 2Lt glass jar tall with narrow neck with screw top lid with hole for paint stirrer Have tried lots of combinations re mixing time (1hr to 2.5 hr) Mixing speed - slow to fast amounts of lye - 2.7g to 4.2g per lt amounts of methanol 200ml to 250ml per lt types of oil - canola , blended edible all say 100% unused After process the product separates nicely and after waiting 12-24 hours do shake test with rain water (all l have) usually it takes hours to separate with a thick layer in-between of white fluffy cloud like stuff (.5 inch thick) The pearl variety of lye dissolves quickly but is hazy whereas the flake is crystal clear. Am heating oil to 55 c then adding methoxide then stirring maint temp throughout. Have read and reread JTF site and archives but nothing leaps out as obvious, my process seems correct, my materials seem correct but l'm starting to feel Very stupid. Is there something on this side of the planet that l'm not aware of?. Also would be very keen to talk - SEE setup working in Melbourne Aust. I'm in the Dandenongs. Any advice would be appreciated, thankyou Regards Peter from Oz___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.10/119 - Release Date: 4/10/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Start Up Problems NO MORE
G'Day All Am elated and a little bit pissed that l havnt asked for help before. Following Kurts suggestion about Hot water to do shake test, went out to the shed (everyman needs a shed) and got sample, back inside, added hot water, watched telly for 2 mins, turned around and the b thing had settled like it never has b4. Over next 5-10 mins it settled to bio top, water below with a poofteenth white line inbetween which from readings is correct. Now why isnt this in standard recipe as l dont think it works for some with cold water and some with hot? l now presume that washing should be done with hot not cold water as well? (stir washing) l'm now going to stir wash the rest of this little sample with hot water and see what happens, though l think l know what will, then l'll pester the tripe out of you for more advice whilst on the way to the biggies. thanks again Regards Peter from Oz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Start Up Problems
G'day group it is with great embarrassment that l have my first post. For 3 months l have been doing test batches (lost Count how many) and still cannot past shake test. Methanol - From a drag racers 44 gallon drum - best apparently Lye - Tiny pearls 99+ - fresh - then flake Oil - supermarket virgin oil Deep cooker filled with water with thermo (bottling type to 120 deg. C ) Drill stand above 2Lt glass jar tall with narrow neck with screw top lid with hole for paint stirrer Have tried lots of combinations re mixing time (1hr to 2.5 hr) Mixing speed - slow to fast amounts of lye - 2.7g to 4.2g per lt amounts of methanol 200ml to 250ml per lt types of oil - canola , blended edible all say 100% unused After process the product separates nicely and after waiting 12-24 hours do shake test with rain water (all l have) usually it takes hours to separate with a thick layer in-between of white fluffy cloud like stuff (.5 inch thick) The pearl variety of lye dissolves quickly but is hazy whereas the flake is crystal clear. Am heating oil to 55 c then adding methoxide then stirring maint temp throughout. Have read and reread JTF site and archives but nothing leaps out as obvious, my process seems correct, my materials seem correct but l'm starting to feel Very stupid. Is there something on this side of the planet that l'm not aware of?. Also would be very keen to talk - SEE setup working in Melbourne Aust. I'm in the Dandenongs. Any advice would be appreciated, thankyou Regards Peter from Oz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes 84
Thank you all for your reply. I have the spare filters in the car and will change when needed. The tank filter will have to be done when I have the time or if needed. As now the car runs like a rocket on the Bio, a little bit of white smoke when cold. Again thanks Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes 84
Could somebody on the list give me some advice . I have just bought a Mercedes 1984 model 300D Does this have a filter in the tank. I have read that with Bio the filter in the tank has to be removed ? I am not sure that it was this model. Are there any other modifications that need doing. I know that I will have to change the fuel filter a few times till the tank is clean Thanks Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).
Just to warn you all...I sent my money to New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml And did not get my stuff ! Best Regards From:Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).Date:Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:11:39 -0400Brian Rodgers wrote: You guys are a trip. LOL there is no stopping some people.Here you will like this one for alternative transportationhttp://www.aeros-uk.co.uk/html/jetbug.htmlIt can burn biodiesel!!Joe This info has been some of the most entertaining reading I have done in years. Starting with: Build your own junkyard turbine http://www.junkyardjet.com/primitive.html New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml I then went to see what Joe was talking about with:coanda effect and the ferroelectric effect. very cool stuff: Using The Coanda Effect In A Pulsejet: http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/coanda.shtml http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/coanda.htm Thank you for 'making my day" Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...butfirst, your opinions (please).
It was about 4 months ago, no luck contacting anyone, next time I am in NZ, I will be sure to drop in though...lol From: "Greg and April" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...butfirst, your opinions (please).Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:05:11 -0600 I'm not surprised. When did you send the money? That guy was stepped on big time by Big Brotherafter 9-11. Greg H. - Original Message ----- From: Peter Morgan To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:21 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). Just to warn you all...I sent my money to New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml And did not get my stuff ! Best Regards From:Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).Date:Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:11:39 -0400Brian Rodgers wrote: You guys are a trip. LOL there is no stopping some people.Here you will like this one for alternative transportationhttp://www.aeros-uk.co.uk/html/jetbug.htmlIt can burn biodiesel!!Joe This info has been some of the most entertaining reading I have done in years. Starting with: Build your own junkyard turbine http://www.junkyardjet.com/primitive.html New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml I then went to see what Joe was talking about with:coanda effect and the ferroelectric effect. very cool stuff: Using The Coanda Effect In A Pulsejet: http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/coanda.shtml http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/coanda.htm Thank you for 'making my day" Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Government Regs
I am investigating the State of North Carolina tax regulations on BioFuel production. I find out the tax rate is 27.1 cents per gallon and I have to post a surety bond for $2000 for a license. That is required for any type of Biodiesel production up to 500,000 gallons per year. I am still investigating the Federal tax requirements. North Carolina has even definedblending, mixing of regular diesel with WVO as a person who needs to post this bond. So if you plan to drive up to the French fry shack and dump some WVO in your tank you'll need a license with a $2000 bond and have to pay a tax. How is it in other States?Are all you Biodieselers operatingin the underground market? Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Thanks for your response Jan, but what is a "grinder"? Do you mean, maybe alternate word, the Filter? Are you aware of any rubber parts that might need subbing out as I understand that rubber and BioDiesel don't mix? Peter - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? Hello Peter. I can recommend all MB diesels as ideal for biodiesel. I am into my third now, and there have been no problems whatsoever. Just a small advice though: The grinder on the fuel line just before the feed pump should be moved by longer hosing, in order to become easily replaced from above, if necessary. In any other case you may have to get under the car in order to replace it. That ´s all. Good luck ! Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Peter Childers To: BiofuelList Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:59 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look).I am also looking at (preferred) aVolkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
Thanks for confirming my inexperienced assumption that the MB Diesels are bulletproof. I think as long as the odometer is a true 165K Mi and not the second rotation then the engine should be ok. The climate control and door locks are minor at this stage as I will get it operating with BioDiesel first and worry about the creature comforts later. I would like higher mileage but if I want to step into BioDiesel I can't wait for the perfect car. Unfortunately I can't test the transmission before I buy but the listed value is anywhere from Zero to $250, so the initial money won't be too bad. A good manual should be about $150-$200. Thanks for all the input. Peter - Original Message - From: S. Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable? Peter Childers wrote: This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Peter, The 300d 123chassis is a fairly bullet proof car, if a bit heavy. The 85 would be the last year, or maybe 86, they were made. Weak points are the climate control device (chrysler) and door lock system. Some automatics had problems, but overall they are comfortable, strong if not blazingly fast transport. Many 240d(4cyl), 300d, 300d turbo and also gas versions were squeezed into the 123. If you can find a manual, mostly european cars, put it in. Mileage will be high 20s-mid 30s. The older 240d, and 220d were in the 115 (maybe 114 I get them mixed up) were lighter I think, and more US cars had the manual, some 5cyl cars are about but mostly the 240. I think a 220d is the record holder for over 1 million miles on the clock... I think. I had an older 190d with over 400k and still running strong on b100 with just a little sweating from fuel lines. Parts can be found, and not terribly expensive unless from the dealer. Try recycle shops and net parts places. Cheers, S.Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second look).I am also looking at (preferred) aVolkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help. Peter ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative to Toxic Mold Compounds?
How about using JB Weld. It has a high heat resistance and is impervious to oils and chemicals etc. Not sure how big your molds are but you may be able to buy direct from JB Weld in larger quantities. It is a two part epoxy that I have used to mold repair plastic items. It gravity flows and sets into a shapeable and sandable mold. Peter - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alternative to Toxic Mold Compounds? What about milling Acrylic? Michael Redler wrote: I know that this may fall outside the scope of our usual discussions but, I thought there might be knowledge to gain here. In the process of building a prototype solar tracker, I'm stuck with a dilemma. Some of the parts I make need to be molded. So, I'm making silicone based molds and casting the parts with two-part polyurethane. According to the MSDS sheets, the catalyst for the silicone mold is a tin-based compound and very toxic. The reason I started in this direction is that it's readily available, widely used and proven to work. When finished, I can cast parts in almost any material. I can even pour low melt temperature metals. I would like to make/use a casting material from something which is safer to me and the environment and still be durable and weather-proof. I was making pasta the other night and found (the next morning) a couple of pieces of spaghetti, dried and conforming to the shape of the colander. It made me wonder if there is a casting materiel made of carbohydrates and /or starch that I can use with a latex rubber mold. Any thoughts? Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] alternative biodiesel process - patent
Joe: Here is a link to the patent http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeisels2=electrodeOS=biodeisel+AND+electrodeRS=biodeisel+AND+electrode United States Patent Application 20050120621 Kind Code A1 Lawson, J. Alan ; et al. June 9, 2005 Chemical synthesis method comprising electro-catalytic reaction and apparatus therefor Abstract Methods, systems, and devices are provided for synthesizing one or more chemical products from a renewable oil, comprising the step of flowing a fluid which comprises a renewable oil through a high voltage electrical field effective to catalyze a chemical reaction involving the renewable oil. Examples of renewable oils include vegetable oils, animal fats, bio-oils, and combinations thereof. In one embodiment, the fluid further comprises an alcohol mixed with the oil, and the chemical reaction produces biodiesel and an etherified glycerin. In one embodiment, the biodiesel is further reacted to produce acetic acid. From:Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) nowalternative biodiesel processDate:Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:06:46 -0400Hi Bob;Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the original post this electrically activated process does not require methoxide.If it is true what a nice advancement.According to the original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to 5kv potential.Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to a previous post.The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?)snip -Hi There:The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOHand running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.The only other byproduct is hydrogen.Very cool, just a littlescary.http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.htmlr=1f=Gl=50co1=ANDd=PG01s1=biodeiselOS=biodeiselRS=biodeisel http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7Raysnip-The patent reference does not appear to be the right one.Ray??Joebob allen wrote:Joe Street wrote:Howdy Pardnerbob allen wrote:Howdy Joe (I just had to write "Hey Joe" before.its the lead to a Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.)Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me "where you goin with that gun in your hand" I say "This is my rifle and this is my gun,This is for shooting and this is for fun"Ok thanks for your corrections and information below.As a chemist you are a boon to this list.Have you given any thought to the other thread about using some form of energy input to make the esterification reaction go?Apparently it can be done with a high electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere).I was also wondering about using intense UV light.Any thoughts?To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things:Provide activation energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the equilibrium further.Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I would question whether one process was any more cost effective or energy efficient than the traditional methods.To make a long story short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution
Thanks to all who provided sources and altarnatives for the phenolphthalein! Now I can start using the 75+ gallons of WVO that's been sitting around my garage. Pete ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Phenolphthalein solution
Greetings, I'm collecting the various tools to perform a titration of WVO and see there are several types of phenolphthalein solutions available. Is there a certain solution that works better than others? Should I get the most economical? Thanks in advance for your help, Pete Some options for purchase at sciencelab.com: -Phenolphthalein Indicator, 0.08% Solution in Methanol ($48.48/500ml) -Phenolphthalein Indicator, 0.5% Solution in 50% Isopropanol ($53.48/L) -Phenolphthalein Indicator, 2% Solution in 95% Ethanol ($114.84/L) -Phenolphthalein Indicator, 3% Solution in 95% Alcohol ($119.76/500ml) -Phenolphthalein TS ($37.09/500 ml) -Phenolphthalein, 0.5% (w/v) Indicator Solution in 50% Alcohol ($58.48/500ml) -Phenolphthalein, 0.5% (w/v) Solution in Ethyl Alcohol ($117.00/500ml) -Phenolphthalein, 1% (w/v) Indicator Solution in 70% Alcohol ($69.24/500ml) -Phenolphthalein, 1% (w/v) Indicator Solution in 95% Isopropyl Alcohol ($107.84/500ml) -Phenolphthalein, Powder, Reagent, ACS ($48.24/25g) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: solar tracking devices
I can neither confirm or deny ... sounds familiar :) Generally, in the estimations I have made, and this would be for a home off-grid, the payback would be on the order of 15-20 years. Not cost effective in the short term, but certainly over the long term. Not to mention environmental benefits of one less dwelling needing fossil fueled electricity. Now that was based on a 2200 sq. ft. home in Arizona when I lived there. You can imagine what that estimate would be where I'm now at, Seattle area. Check out http://www.homepower.com for more sustainable energy ideas. I'm a subscriber to the magazine and trying to get some biodiesel started. pete Michael Redler wrote: I've been researching the cost of solar power and whether or not it's cost effective to use a solar tracking device. There are not a lot of manufacturers of solar trackers. However, some of the calculations I've done would indicate that if the price were kept low enough, it would lower your total price for solar electricity. Here is an example that I've been using based on a tracker that can accommodate a 1sq meter panel. I arbitrarily picked a cost of $1000.00 for my first iteration: $5.00 per watt x 1000 watts = $5000,00 per square meter (approximately) for PV panels. If I found a tracker which will hold a 1m sq panel for $1000.00 and I get a 30% panel output increase, (that's $5000.00 x .30 = $1500.00 worth of PV power for a $1000 investment) I think I would come out ahead. Results: Total cost for 1000 watts (without tracker) = $5000.00 or $5.00 per watt Total cost for 1300 watts (with tracker) = $6000.00 or $4.62 per watt The cost of the power gained from using a tracker = $1000.00/300 watts = $3.33 per watt I think this may be relevant to those biofuelers who would prefer to process their fuel in a location where power from the grid or their homes may not be as convenient as a more autonomous source, using PV. Even if the speculation is true and we see a reduction in PV power cost (projected $2.00 per watt), These cost calculations would still be fairly reasonable when one has limited space. Can anyone confirm or correct these calculations? Mike References: The 1000 watts is based on the estimated solar power radiated onto the Earth's surface per square meter. http://physics.mtsu.edu/~klumpe/astr1030/lectures/Chapter%2009.pdf#search='1000%20Watts%20per%20square%20meter%20sun' page 1 The price per Watt for PV panels is based on: http://www.solarbuzz.com/ModulePrices.htm 30% is an estimated average increase in power output from a comparison between panels in a fixed position (30 degrees incline) and panels mounted to a tracker. http://www.wattsun.com/resources.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: solar tracking devices
Now THAT'S interesting! Never heard it mentioned. Usually what I hear is issues with the inverters, or batteries due to lack of proper maintenance. Something to keep in mind for sure! Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: There are long term issues with PV's. They will loose efficiency over time. The PV's I have worked with, in the past, had an efficiency loss of 33%-50% in ten years. This value is dependant on temperature. The hotter they operate the faster they degrade. Another main cause of failure was water intrusion to the interior of the panel. These were on remote weather monitoring stations. Normally operated in cold climates. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Martin Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 9:52 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: solar tracking devices I can neither confirm or deny ... sounds familiar :) Generally, in the estimations I have made, and this would be for a home off-grid, the payback would be on the order of 15-20 years. Not cost effective in the short term, but certainly over the long term. Not to mention environmental benefits of one less dwelling needing fossil fueled electricity. Now that was based on a 2200 sq. ft. home in Arizona when I lived there. You can imagine what that estimate would be where I'm now at, Seattle area. Check out http://www.homepower.com for more sustainable energy ideas. I'm a subscriber to the magazine and trying to get some biodiesel started. pete Michael Redler wrote: I've been researching the cost of solar power and whether or not it's cost effective to use a solar tracking device. There are not a lot of manufacturers of solar trackers. However, some of the calculations I've done would indicate that if the price were kept low enough, it would lower your total price for solar electricity. Here is an example that I've been using based on a tracker that can accommodate a 1sq meter panel. I arbitrarily picked a cost of $1000.00 for my first iteration: $5.00 per watt x 1000 watts = $5000,00 per square meter (approximately) for PV panels. If I found a tracker which will hold a 1m sq panel for $1000.00 and I get a 30% panel output increase, (that's $5000.00 x .30 = $1500.00 worth of PV power for a $1000 investment) I think I would come out ahead. Results: Total cost for 1000 watts (without tracker) = $5000.00 or $5.00 per watt Total cost for 1300 watts (with tracker) = $6000.00 or $4.62 per watt The cost of the power gained from using a tracker = $1000.00/300 watts = $3.33 per watt I think this may be relevant to those biofuelers who would prefer to process their fuel in a location where power from the grid or their homes may not be as convenient as a more autonomous source, using PV. Even if the speculation is true and we see a reduction in PV power cost (projected $2.00 per watt), These cost calculations would still be fairly reasonable when one has limited space. Can anyone confirm or correct these calculations? Mike References: The 1000 watts is based on the estimated solar power radiated onto the Earth's surface per square meter. http://physics.mtsu.edu/~klumpe/astr1030/lectures/Chapter%2009.pdf#sea rch='1000%20Watts%20per%20square%20meter%20sun' page 1 The price per Watt for PV panels is based on: http://www.solarbuzz.com/ModulePrices.htm 30% is an estimated average increase in power output from a comparison between panels in a fixed position (30 degrees incline) and panels mounted to a tracker. http://www.wattsun.com/resources.html -- -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Stir vs Pump Processing
Hi Ken, I have used both systems, making 90 ltr at a time, so far I have made nearly 2000ltr. Yes I have had 2 bad mixes one with the pump and one with the stirrer , my fault not the m/c. I have found that the stirrer is quicker, (mixing for 3/4 hour) and less mess as I had to clean the pipes and the pump as the glycerine used to settle in them. I think I am getting a better separation with the stirrer, the pump set up was more expensive also . The only advantage with the pump is that you can operate with a closed system easer. Hope this is a help Peter Hi all, I'm trying to determine which method, stirring or pumping, will consume less elctricity before I make my processor. Obviously, it depends on the equipment employed but, in theory. It sounds like reaction times are shorter with stirring than with pump mixing. Likewise, from what I read, it appears that stirring provides a more reliable reaction. It also seems like more people use pumps to mix their brew but, it also appears that there are more problems with pumping than with stirring - maybe this is a miscalculation on my part, though. And maybe it is just an indication that most everyone uses pump hence the greater trouble available to be found. Thanks in advance, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] CAFE vs ANWR
consumers STILL spend the same $$ per week regardless of what you buy! I've a TDI that gets 47mpg. Our driving per week expenditures are base on about 500 miles per week. A gas powered vehicle would need to get 40mpg for us to spend the same on gas. Not too many around here that do! I have a friend that lives in the NE US, and he too told me about the MA state ban on diesel sales! I wouldn't have beleived it otherwise! It's all politics and economics, aka oil companies. John Hayes wrote: John Freeman wrote: 1. Why is diesel fuel so much more expensive in the US? In MA, it costs at least 10% more, reducing its advantage. John, two quick comments: a) over the course of a year, diesel is NOT more expensive than gasoline. Diesel is more in the winter (when demand for home heating oil is high) but much lower in the summer. Averaged over the year, diesel and gas are within a penny of each other per gallon. b) Even if diesel were more, it would have to be a *lot* more to negate the advantage. Consider two VWs; if the gasoline version gets 30 mpg and the diesel gets 45 mpg, and gas were $2/gal, then the diesel would come out ahead until diesel exceeded $3/gal. Even if diesel were $.50 more all year round, you'd still be saving money. Unfortunately, 'Merkins ain't so good at math. jh ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] RE: W.V.O. Source
Hey Rob, You have done a great deal of research and I am impressed. You are very thorough. I really appreciate all of the time that you have put into all of these plans. I have located one potential source for wvo. I am working part-time at a Ruby Tuesday and witnessed the process for removing the wvo. I was excited to see that the oil is filtered before it is pumped out of the fryer. I also noticed that the contracted removal service uses 50 gallon drums on roller dollies with a band seal on top to contain the wvo. This allows the restaurant to remove the oil while it is still hot and the contractor can come by and swap out drums without expensive removal pumps. Just thought that I would share this information with you. Please keep up the good job. Thanks, Peter McWilliams ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] more on the quality test
I will keep a small sample and see if I can get it tested, will post the results. Peter At 10:12 AM 30/12/2004 -0500, you wrote: Peter, Interesting as to the precipitate you achieved. You might wish to dry it and test its properties. A safe bet is that it's a flocculent of multiple constituents, as non-water soluble calcium soaps by themselves have specific gravities less than water and would float in water rather than settle. See http://www.gogenchem.com/calcium/NCh14.html We've been eying CaCl2 as a less expensive option for treatment of wash water prior to its release as graywater. Question for us is whether it's more environmentally friendly than magnesium sulfate. Based upon your experience, it might be a fair idea to keep calcium chloride in mind as an emulsion breaker. The compound has been mentioned before in conversation on this list, but I believe it was more as a drying agent in other applications. It might also be a good idea that some honest labwork be conducted to see exactly what benefits (if any) such a measure can achieve in a less than marginal fuel situation. It's possible that under the right conditions calcium can not only break an emulsion but convert some residual glycerides from incomplete reactions to soaps that can be removed. But I wouldn't recommend that anyone who reads this go off half-cocked and start preaching it as a one size fits all solution to production problems until some legitimate labwork could confirm its benefits and/or disbenefits. As for whether or not calcium chloride could become a contaminant? It is water soluble and should wash out. The same can be said for potassium and/or sodium chloride, which would become present if the CaCl2 actually converts some or all of the water soluble soaps to insoluble calcium grease (lime grease). Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Peter Harves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more on the quality test Todd, Thank you , I was most interested in your post as I am new to making Bio (450lts so far) I had a bad batch which was like milk, I put it aside to let it settle over a week, it did but very little. I bought a new aerator and I think I agitated the mix to much!!! I am a potter and use all sorts of chemicals for my glazes so I thought I would try some to separate the glob. I used Calcium Chloride about 40 ml in a 90ltr batch , the reaction was interesting, both started to separate leaving the soaps in a curdled layer at the bottom . I decanted the clear bio to my wash vessel, I have now washed it 2x and will wash again it is very clear now. Question-- calcium chloride is water soluble, that's why I want to wash it well, but would it do any harm to the engine if there were traces left in the fuel for some reason or other??? if you don't know the answer maybe somebody out there might !. I know this is not the way to make Bio but I didn't want to throw out the batch and I guess we all like to experiment . Peter. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] more on the quality test
Thank you , I was most interested in your post as I am new to making Bio (450lts so far) I had a bad batch which was like milk, I put it aside to let it settle over a week, it did but very little. I bought a new aerator and I think I agitated the mix to much!!! I am a potter and use all sorts of chemicals for my glazes so I thought I would try some to separate the glob. I used Calcium Chloride about 40 ml in a 90ltr batch , the reaction was interesting, both started to separate leaving the soaps in a curdled layer at the bottom . I decanted the clear bio to my wash vessel, I have now washed it 2x and will wash again it is very clear now. Question-- calcium chloride is water soluble, that's why I want to wash it well, but would it do any harm to the engine if there were traces left in the fuel for some reason or other??? if you don't know the answer maybe somebody out there might !. I know this is not the way to make Bio but I didn't want to throw out the batch and I guess we all like to experiment . Peter. John, somone on the yahoo groups list (can't find the message right now, I will post a link when I do) posted results of lab tests that showed low mono or di glycerides but a high level of triglycerides. I admittadly don't understand the chemistry well enough to know why that would happen (or even if it could). perhaps really bad stirring such that part of the fluid volume never became involved in the reaction (is that possible?). Incomplete reactions occur for several basic reasons. 1) Insufficient catalyst, 2) Insufficient alcohol, 3) Insufficient duration of reaction, 4) Insufficient agitation and 5) Feedstock exceedingly high in FFAs, all of which are easily overcome. As well, triglycerides don't appreciably emulsify as do mono- and di-glycerides. which is specifically why I am intarested in a test for them. suggestions that I am barking up the wrong tree are welcome :) If you've got triglycerides remaining you'll also have the emulsifying mono- and di-glycerides, primary emulsifiers. If you've got no emulsifiers present, then you're going to be very hard pressed to find any registerable amount of triglycerides. It's really an either/or scenario. This is where a wash test is a fair indicator. If emulsion forms using water of room temp, presuming sufficient settling time has been conducted (and better still if the reaction was a/b), then you know you've got incompletely reacted mono- and di-glycerides. Whether or not you know the molecular ratio of each, much less that of any tri-glycerides is relatively a non-issue. If it's precise measurements you seek, you're not going to find a homebrew test that will give you any answer. I am less concerned with altering the process to achieve less soap (it seems to produce little enough as it is, provided that you use the right amount of lye) than I am with finding a method to tell the difference between an underreacted batch and a soapy batch, Well, if that's the case, I'd have to say that you've got your priorities out of order. Soap is a variable/emulsifier. It's a variable that competes with other emulsifiers. It's also a waste product that has to be dealt with, to the tune of 6% - 25% of original feedstock volume, depending upon how abused the feedstock is. Best to eliminate and/or reduce variables and waste products wherever possible. Do you want to make soap or do you want to make biodiesel? something like soap emulsifies BD into the water and you get a larger amount of water after settling wheras underreacted emulsifies into the BD so you get a larger top layer Emulsification is just that. It reduces visible volumes of both water and fuel, adding itself as the mid-layer. An emulsion may break over time, with or without treatment. But you'll never have a larger volume in either the water or fuel layer. the answer is reprocess a sample of the batch that failed and look for glyc to drop out, if it dosen't you have soap problems, That's not true. Soap drops with the glyc. If nothing drops then you have no problem. if it does you have underreacted your batch. this may also be my test for triglycerides. No. It just tells you that you had an underreacted batch, not the ratios of underreacted components. I understand, but perhaps having a sense of really great fuel will separate within 4 minutes at 70 degrees wheras less good but passable fuels will separate in 10 or more minutes with the outside limit of pasability being 30 minutes would be helpful. You want a green light so that you can run incompleted fuel through your engine? Why not strive for completed reactions rather than outs? If it's outs that you want, you might keep in mind that many people are running SVO, WVO and even animal fats through their diesels. Those are all virtually 100% incomplete reactions, are they not? But then again, a non-reaction is not going to yield the same end product
RE: [Biofuel] it looks like soapy milk facts
Hi Dermot and others I know how you must feel, I have to date made 360 lts of Bio and the car has run the 1000k's ready to change the filter. With Christmas coming up I thought I would make some stock Fuel. I dropped 90 lts out that had been washed, and pumped another 90lts to be washed into the drum. (I have a fish tank aerator) I let it run with about 40ltr's of water for about 12 hours, the water is sprayed over the top of the Bio through a mist sprayer attached to the water tap. The next morning I went to drain out the water for the next wash and found that I had a drum full of white mothers milk!! I am lost to why it happened this time and not the other times, the only difference I can think of is a. this time I had the aerator running for the lengthy time b. it was sitting in the reactor vessel for a while waiting for the other tank to finish. c. I bought a new aerator with twice the air ( the last fuel was aerated with this also) I have read all the comments about the water temp etc etc but I live in Australia and the weather here is nice and warm (at the moment around the 30 deg c average). I would be glad to hear of other problems or solutions people have had with washing. I am determined to keep up the washing process as once you see what comes out of the bio you wouldn't want this to go through Your engine. ( PS my mates have nic named the land cruiser The Battered Sav this is a deep fried sausage on a stick with batter that is sold at shows ) regards Peter the POTTER www.coolpottery.com.au Dermot, transfer esters to a separate washing vessel. That's why samples a and b wash fine and the the batch washed in the reactor doesn't. Aparently some of the glycerinuous phase clings to the surface and, as mentioned by Luc, to the plumbing. I also wash my biodiesel reactor after each batch to ensure that nothing of the glyc phase rests int it. Cheers, Aleks I had the same experience with pump washing. It just doesn't work. It appears to be too violent even if your reaction is perfect. The washing has to be gentle. It would seem to me that the initial wash has got to be quite gentle even with well made biodiesel and that subsequent washes can then be as violent as you like and you will still get good separation. Regards Dermot Here's my rather lengthy query to the group on this subject last summer. I would appreciate any suggestions or help from people who have experience with washing biodiesel by using a pump. I have tried unsuccessfully to do it and have ended up with about 50% mayonnaise. Here's what I did: I heated the used oil, which was over a year old, to 130 degrees centigrade for over an hour to make sure there was no water present. I then took a sample and allowed it to cool before titrating it. I got a titration reading of around 2.7. I did the titration three times and it was always around this figure. I added 4 grams to this figure and made a few one litre test batches mixing 6.7 grams of lye to the methanol. I used 22% methanol (220 ml) in order to ensure a complete reaction. I made sure that the lye mixed completely with the methanol. When I mixed the methoxide with the wvo I got a very good separation and everything seemed fine. I then siphoned off the top layer of biodiesel and added an equal amount of water to it. I shook it about 15 times and I got a good separation within seconds and after maybe an hour I had almost completely clean biodiesel on top and white coloured water underneath. There was no middle layer. After a few days I siphoned off the washed biodiesel and washed it a few more times. Same result, perfect separation after a few hours and it separated quite quickly initially. I will call this sample A. I then took another litre sample of the unwashed biodiesel and ran it through the whole process again to see if I had a complete reaction. I titrated it but it immediately turned purple so I used the figure of 4 grams of lye to mix with the 220 ml of methanol. I mixed the methoxide and biodiesel thoroughly and was pleased to see that I got no separation, indicating that there had been a complete reaction the first time. I washed it again and got good separation very quickly. So far so good. I felt confident enough now to do my first large batch in my processor. By large I mean 50 litres. My processor is an old discarded plastic tractor mounted spray tank. It is rectangular in shape but has a slight cone shaped bottom. I use a pump mixer to pump the contents from the bottom of the tank to the top where I have a three quarter inch pipe connected to a wand which has about 40 small holes drilled to enable good mixing. This wand is submerged near he bottom of the tank. The pump is a sliding vane type and is powered by a 2 horsepower motor running at 1750 rpm. I heated the wvo in a separate heater tank using a butane burner and brought it up to 65 degrees centigrade. I then transferred it by pump to the reaction vessel and turned
Re: [Biofuel] new to list
I am in Canberra, you are welcome to call me - 02 6161 8998. Thank's Mike I will Peter 02-44485877 Mike Fleetwood Canberra, Australia. Worldwide email address is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] new to list
I am new to the list and to making biodiesel I live in a rural area but 5 min from the coast, we are 2.5 hrs south of Sydney in N.S.W. Australia I have made Bio diesel for the first time from the information on your web site. Today was the first time that I tried it in the car (Toyota 4 w drive tubo-diesel 1986 model with 386000 klm on the clock) It was a funny feeling, will the car run at all, is the fuel ok etc etc. It drove like a dream so I can't wait to make the next 90 ltr I did have a problem though, After washing the fuel looked cloudy and didn't want to settle ??. I heated the fuel to 60 deg c then let it settle and it cleared . To wash the diesel I made a drum with a spray system on the top and I sprayed 30 ltr of water over the top then I have a bubble ring at the bottom which bubbles to the top,about 3hrs of washing. Should I have put some water in the bottom at first ?. The 90 lts of diesel gave me about 8 ltr of Glycerine , is that enough?? I did all the tests at first and the fuel looked very clear after the first process, I used 18 ltr Methanol and 450grm of Sodium Hydroxide for 90 ltr. I did the titration test 2x and got the same result- 1.5 and 3.5 grm (the oil is very clean) It is a bit hard when I have to get all the info from the net and can't talk to somebody close by. I will keep making it and I suppose it will improve as I go. I really want to wash the fuel so will persist. If there is anybody on the list that is close by I would love to talk to you. Thank you for you time Peter Harves ps I make a living making pottery see my web site www.coolpottery.com.au 145 Edward Wollstonecraft Lane Coolangatta Via Berry N.S.W. 2535 Australia phone- 02-44485877 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] market for crude glycerol
What markets are available for the sale and distribution of crude glycerol that is a by-product of the production of biodiesel from waste oil? We are producing on the scope of around 7,200 litres per day of waste glycerol; is there any coherent average price for crude glycerol (esp. in Europe, but also worldwide)? Thanks. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Bashing biodiesel (esp. homebrew) online
SNIP Free water in petro-diesel is of course bad news; a fuel-water emulsion is a different matter, as also with water-biodiesel blends. If it's dissolved in the fuel it will harm nothing, and there seem to be big advantages. Chemtech has a product to do just this in Petro-Diesel breaks up the water in the tank and moves it into the diesel to create an emulsion. Also kills bacteria and cleans injectors. So water in fuel or should I say Fuel Tank has always been an issue and only becomes a problem when your injectors get a large dose water. Bang snap. I cannot see why small amounts of water-BD emulsion would cause any problems. It may even be a good thing. KP IMPORTANT: Notice to be read with this E-mail 1. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. 2. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for the use of the intended recipient. 3. If you are not the intended recipient, please: contact the sender by return e-mail, to notify the misdirection; do not copy, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on this e-mail; and delete and destroy all copies of this e-mail. 4. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and are not a statement of Australian Government policy unless otherwise stated. 5. Any electronic address published in this message is not to be taken as a conspicuous publication of that electronic address. The Department of Veterans' Affairs does not consent to the receipt of commercial electronic messages as that term is defined in the Spam Act 2003. 6. If you do not wish to receive further emails of this type from the Department of Veterans' Affairs, please forward your reply to this message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'Unsubscribe' in the subject line. 7. Finally, please do not remove this notice, so that any other readers are aware of these restrictions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] The Economy of Wash Water Recycling
I am certainly no Chemist but know that there are many chemistry experts out there. I was wondering if there is something that can be added to the wash water that would attract the contaminants? PeterR Canberra OZ -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 12 June 2004 2:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] The Economy of Wash Water Recycling Check out Todd Swearingen's great explanation of why it's a good idea to recycle the water when washing biodiesel and how it works. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_wash.html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_wash.html The Economy of Wash Water Recycling Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129kd0dh6/M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1087100624/A=2164330/R=0/SIG=11eamf8g4/*http:/www.n etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183350 click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=groups/S= :HM/A=2164330/rand=191896425 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Service. IMPORTANT: Notice to be read with this E-mail 1. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. 2. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for the use of the intended recipient. 3. If you are not the intended recipient, please: contact the sender by return e-mail, to notify the misdirection; do not copy, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on this e-mail; and delete and destroy all copies of this e-mail. 4. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and are not a statement of Australian Government policy unless otherwise stated. 5. Any electronic address published in this message is not to be taken as a conspicuous publication of that electronic address. The Department of Veterans' Affairs does not consent to the receipt of commercial electronic messages as that term is defined in the Spam Act 2003. 6. If you do not wish to receive further emails of this type from the Department of Veterans' Affairs, please forward your reply to this message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'Unsubscribe' in the subject line. 7. Finally, please do not remove this notice, so that any other readers are aware of these restrictions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Why is my Diesel Overspeeding?
Dave, I disagree with Turbo seals causing an engine to run on its own oil. Turbo seals are not a total seal to begin with and pressure at the seal is next to nil as the return pipe to the engine is so large any oil pressure is lost at the bearing. Oil blockage is the only possibility that would cause oil to be forced past those seals. The most likely cause of engine runaway is blow by past the pistons or major crankcase fuming being directed back into the intake. Use good oil and regular oil changes from the beginning to prevent oil galleries from getting blocked. And never try to interrupt the air to the engine in a run away situation. Stall it or dive for cover before it detonates. PeterR -Original Message- From: Dave Donnelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2004 9:23 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why is my Diesel Overspeeding? You're right Stan. Another common way for an engine to overspeed using it's crankcase oil is via seals in the turbo or blower. If an these seals fail completely and the engine runs away, the only way to stop it before it destroys itself completely is to stop the air supply, ie: shove a raincoat in the air intake. (don't use plastic bags or anything that will shred because the blower will eat them making a serious mess). Some engines are fitted with a damper on the air intake for this purpose. The fact that Fred's engine responds to the fuel shutoff suggests to me that the problem is more likely fuel pump or injectors, but if he's burning vast amounts of lube oil, it could be rings or turbo seals. Dave. Stanley Baer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have heard that if the conditions of the rings are bad enough, the blowby which is vented to the intake can bring in enough oil vapours from the engine oil to cause the engine to race even though no fuel is being delivered by the injectors. stan Dave Donnelly wrote: fred M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 1982 Datsun(Nissan) SD22 engine in a 720 truck that I have run for 7500 miles on B-100 here in Florida. Recently the engine is trying to overspeed and won't rev down. Does this engine have seals that can be hurt by B-100? The only way to slow down the engine is to pull the manual fuel cutoff till the engine almost stalls. Can anyone tell me what is going on with my engine? Fred Mars Fred, The fact that the manual fuel shutoff is able to bring the over-revving situation under control suggests to me that it is a problem with your fuel pump, associated linkages or injectors. 1) Check the linkages first and ensure that the throttle is not binding and is moving smoothly all the way back to the idle adjustment screw. 2) If no defect is found, you may need to pull your injectors and get them tested and possibly rebuilt at a diesel shop. Worn out or broken injectors often result in too much fuel being delivered, (the first symptoms of failing injectors is usually black smoke and rough idle). 3) If neither of these is the case, it may be your fuel pump, but I'm a little doubtful of that. Most fuel pumps that I've dealt with deliver too little fuel when they fail. It is however an unfortunate possibility. There are other reasons why diesels overspeed but they don't leap to mind based on your description. Now the obligatory disclaimers: I am a marine engineer, not a diesel or automotive mechanic. I do not know anything about your specific machine or it's fuel pump. My comments are general knowledge of diesel engines only. I have never put a wrench on a Nissan diesel. My thoughts or opinions may be worth exactly what you paid for them. ($0.00) Hope this helps, Dave Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam [Non-text portions of this message have been
RE: [biofuel] Why is my Diesel Overspeeding?
Yes there is a very good chance that those seals in there will be affected by BD. Think pre '94 would cause a problem. My 91 1HD-T Powered 80 Series Landcruiser's Fuel Pump seals went using Low Sulphur Fuel within a couple thou km's with LSD. But wouldn't thought leaking seals would cause your problem. PeterR -Original Message- From: fred M [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:49 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Why is my Diesel Overspeeding? I have a 1982 Datsun(Nissan) SD22 engine in a 720 truck that I have run for 7500 miles on B-100 here in Florida. Recently the engine is trying to overspeed and won't rev down. Does this engine have seals that can be hurt by B-100? The only way to slow down the engine is to pull the manual fuel cutoff till the engine almost stalls. Can anyone tell me what is going on with my engine? Fred Mars Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Service. IMPORTANT: Notice to be read with this E-mail 1. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. 2. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for the use of the intended recipient. 3. If you are not the intended recipient, please: contact the sender by return e-mail, to notify the misdirection; do not copy, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on this e-mail; and delete and destroy all copies of this e-mail. 4. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and are not a statement of Australian Government policy unless otherwise stated. 5. Finally, please do not remove this notice, so that any other readers are aware of these restrictions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] biodiesel mixing
Keith, What I am referring to is when you stop mixing with the pump to let the BD settle out the BD in the pipe above and in the pump would also have it's Glycerine settle and with the pump horizontal there is a low point in the vane which I would think Glycerine would settle. That Glycerine would not be drained off and when the pump was switched back on it would mix back in with the BD. By vertically mounting the pump (and above the Gly level) there would be a flow through advantage and the settling Gly would move through the pump and would easily be removed with an addition of a valve at the base (low point) of the plumbing or if designed right flow back into the reactor and removed with the rest of the Glycerine. Because I have not done this before and do not have a processor built I am not sure if the amount of Gly I am talking about is sufficient enough to worry about. However I would like to be able to remove as much GLY as possible from the BD. My pump is a Clear Water one basically the same as you have been referring to and really! if this pump will run vertically I will mount it vertically. I was thinking on getting a Hot water heater for the reactor however the drain point to pump is at the base. You wrote that that point should be further up the side of the reactor. What are you guy's thoughts on this? Does Girl Marks processor work well? What is the best reactor? I want to make one that will do me for years and make high quality BD. Basically I want to get it right from the beginning. PeterR -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 10 March 2004 7:09 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] biodiesel mixing Hello Peter Keith Wondering if the Clear water pump should be mounted vertically Not quite sure what you mean, nor if it matters, but ours and others I've seen pictures of have them mounted horizontally, with the inlet at the front and the outlet out the top. and above Glycerine? So that no Glycerine settles in the bottom of it. I don't suppose that would hurt it. Maybe if you use NaOH and the glyc solidifies it might make it hard to start again, but I doubt it. Anyway, I get the idea that the level of the mixing tank outlet to the pump relative to the bottom of the tank is quite important. With our processor (it was previously a kerosene tank, with a convex bottom shaped for optimal drainage) the mixing outlet is set somewhat higher than the level the glycerine by-product cocktail will settle at. That level will vary somewhat according to the oil (and process) you use. Now, there's no agitation in the tank, just circulation - the oil doesn't gush back in at the top in a solid 3/4-inch-thick river to plunge into the top of the oil and splash all over the place, it's gentle, no splashing. All the agitation as such takes place inside the pump. The pump pulls the oil in from the tank outlet, but that's not very violent. As a result, a lot of the glyc cocktail settles out during the processing, which is a Good Thing. I think about half of it settles out before the processing's finished. This does also remove some of the methanol, which is dissolved in the by-product. Aleks Kac's two-stage acid-base process has an optional step of draining off some of the glycerine during the base stage. (The process runs fine without it, he says. It's just a twitch to get higher yield if your processor has a bottom drain.) He said this about it: The process is running on the smallest sensible volume of alcohol. While removing a small portion of it with the byproduct would seem to slow the reaction down, the rather large mass of removed byproduct will tip the scale toward ester production. We find that's the case - the settled out glyc by-product more than offsets any methanol removed, with very satisfactory results overall. So this could be a consideration in setting the height of the tank-to-pump outlet. To test it, I attached a right-angle elbow to the inside of the outlet (inside the tank), pointing up, so the pump could only draw from higher levels of the tank, not taking in any of the settled by-product. This didn't work as well, so I removed the elbow. I wouldn't want to set the outlet any higher in the tank, nor any lower. I said above that about half the by-product settles out during the process, but I think much more than that does, but some of it is constantly being recirculated (along with its methanol content), and this seems to be about optimal. I tried to figure all this out in advance before building the processor. Presuming about 100% production (which we get, using an acid-base process as standard), and 20% total methanol v/v WVO, the amount of by-product will be 20%, or close to it. So if the depth of WVO being processed in the tank is, say, 100 whatevers, the total depth of by-product that will eventually settle at the bottom will be 20 whatevers
RE: [biofuel] biodiesel mixing
Keith Wondering if the Clear water pump should be mounted vertically and above Glycerine? So that no Glycerine settles in the bottom of it. PeterR -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2004 6:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] biodiesel mixing My question to the group involves a 55 gallon drum used as a processing tank. If the mixing shaft were to be lowered straight down into the center of the tank, would adequate mixing take place? Or would a vortex form in the mixture and inadequate mixing take place? I see some tanks have the mixer angled on the side of the drum, I'm assuming to avoid having a vortex form. Would baffles along the inside of the drum help? Thanks. Jonathan. Yes, baffles would help to increase agitation, presuming you know how much agitation you need. Why would a vortex mean inadequate mixing? Chuck Ranum has his mixer set at an angle from the side but still talks of a vortex. If the mixer turns fast enough you'll get a vortex whatever angle it's set at. How far down does the vortex go, all the way down to the mixing blades? Perhaps that would be too much, but the answer would be to decrease the speed or the angle or size of the mixing blades. Anyway, Jonathan, why not use a pump instead? Aleks Kac did some research on this and told me this: As a rule of thumb you need 1000 W of shaft power for pump stirring on a 1000 litre/batch reactor as opposed to 3000 W of shaft power for turbine stirring for the same volume. I think pumps work better than stirrers, and it's a lot simpler to build a closed, fume-free processor with a pump. These 1 Clear Water Pumps are cheap and reliable, and work very well. Harbor Freight Tools -- 1 Clear Water Pump -- Item 1479-1VGA http://www.harborfreight.com/ http://www.harborfreight.com/ Northern Tools -- Cast Iron 1in. Clear Water Pump, Model# 109955 (Warning -- very BAD at dealing with international orders!) http://www.northerntool.com/ http://www.northerntool.com/ Northern Tool Equipment Co. (UK) Ltd. -- 1 Clear Water Pump, Item No. 109955E http://www.northerntooluk.com/ http://www.northerntooluk.com/ Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N3349.yahoo1/B1282054.27;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz= 300x250;code=18634;dcopt=rcl;ord=1078816972204882? Click Here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=274551.4550177.5761904.1261774/D=egroupweb /S=:HM/A=2019528/rand=493331079 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Service. IMPORTANT: Notice to be read with this E-mail 1. Before opening any attachments, please check them for viruses and defects. 2. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for the use of the intended recipient. 3. If you are not the intended recipient, please: contact the sender by return e-mail, to notify the misdirection; do not copy, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on this e-mail; and delete and destroy all copies of this e-mail. 4. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and are not a statement of Australian Government policy unless otherwise stated. 5. Finally, please do not remove this notice, so that any other readers are aware of these restrictions. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] America Seen Through European Eyes on NPR all week
But I'm right-handed... Search engine to find your local public radio station can be found in the left hand tool bar. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 12:46 PM Subject: [biofuel] America Seen Through European Eyes on NPR all week A four part series is being aired on National Public Radio this week. America Seen Through European Eyes http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2003/oct/euram/index.html Search engine to find your local public radio station can be found in the left hand tool bar. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] thank you (small diesels)
Way kewl. - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] thank you (small diesels) Just as a side note, a local guy ( sort of a mechanical genius - years before affordable PV, he had a parabolic reflector heating water, making steam, driving a generator in his workshop, making electricity to charge the batteries in his electric pickup!) once made up a modern kit for a steam powered bike - compact, lightweight. External combustion, NOx advantages...oil burner...SVO burner? Lots of torque to pull the kiddie trailer up the hills, very fast, and quiet. Edward Beggs On Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 02:30 AM, Keith Addison wrote: thank you for your reply I'm looking for something about 8x8 I' need it for a specific bike that I currently own. So If you come across something about that size, I would be interested in hearing. I think we all would be, so please advise the list, not just direct. Thanks! Keith thanks again c --- Clint Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a small diesel from a refer unit off a straight truck, it¡Çs a 1 or 2 cylinder water cooled (tiny radiator) might be a bit to much for a bike, perhaps make a trike with it. I am going to guess 15-20 HP, it turns over but someone has cut the fuel lines to it, if you, or anyone is interested in it I will try to get it started. Has V-belt pulley on it and I think it has a electric clutch to disengage the pulley, also has 12 volt starter. Also should note it is a horizontal shaft, perhaps a bio-fueled riding lawn mower??? H Clint -Original Message- From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:08 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] looking for an engine Once in a while there are small diesel engines on eBay. captainmythos wrote: I'm trying to run a bicycle on bio-fuel. The only engines I can find run on gas. Is it possible to convert or find a small diesel engine. thank you -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ArdFIC/hP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ArdFIC/hP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Profiteers Empowered - Hasta La Vista, California
Dear friend I read on the biofuels list your expressing some confusion about how to vote on the recall. The California recall seems a bit off-subject from biofuels, though I see that it is related, considering the Greg Palast article regarding the energy giants and their real-world stooge. (Please see http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=283row=0 .) To me, ANY of the three items on your list would be ample reason not to vote for A.S., and a good enough reason to vote against the recall itself, because the recall itself, if passed, opens a Pandora's box of over a hundred choices that will siphon away votes to the point that Arnold may win anyway, backroom energy dealing, disrespect for women, possible Nazi leanings, and all. Regarding the energy issue, as Palast states, ...only (Governor) Davis and (Lieutenant Governor)Bustamante are taking direct action to get back the $9 billion that was vacuumed out of (California) by Enron, Reliant, Dynegy, Williams Company and the other Texas bandits who squeezed the state by the bulbs. ...if Arnold is selected, it's 'hasta la vista' to the $9 billion. DAVIS and BUSTAMANTE, he says. Gray Davis, who would demand the Bush administration's regulators refund the 9 billion, and Cruz Bustamante, who has already filed a lawsuit under the Unfair Business Practices Act, to ...make the power companies return the $9 billion they filched from California electricity and gas customers, writes Palast. The evidence against the electricity barons is rock solid: fraudulent reporting of sales transactions, megawatt laundering, fake power delivery scheduling and straight out conspiracy (including meetings in hotel rooms). That would suggest to me KEEPING Governor Davis, if possible, by voting AGAINST the recall, but also voting for Lieutenant Governor Bustamante (as is our right), as being a backup real-world superhero fighting the corrupt energy giants listed in Mr. Palast's article. Mathematically, a vote for the recall is dangerously close to voting for the energy companies' stooge. If asked, I would suggest voting NO on the recall, and as a backup, voting FOR Bustamante. It is evident that the recall is the energy giants' ploy to avoid being held accountable, not a way of improving California's governance. Sincere thanks, Peter N Fisk Sebastopol, California P.S. I have a BA in Environmental Studies from Sonoma State University (1980) and have been active in energy issues and peace and justice issues, and was for six years a volunteer domestic violence counselor. P.P.S. I am converting a 1992 Ford F-350 1-ton 7.3L diesel to run on waste vegetable oil. I am using a horizontal 55-gallon drum for the filtered wvo heated tank, and am considering using a vertical 55-gal drum as a warmed settling pre-tank. I'm moving back to Vermont (after 28 years in California) and am looking for folks who have made such a conversion, and also for veggie oil sources along the way (route across US not selected yet), suggestions and sites for wvo pickup (meeting owners and discussing wvo and diesels in diners across the land sounds like fun), suggestions for processing the wvo en route, and B100 (100% biodiesel) sources. I expect to leave in early November. - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Profiteers Empowered - Hasta La Vista, California Yes, I read this. If it hadn't been Palast I might have been more easily able to dismiss it as well-timed propaganda wierdness. Over the last week, it has seemed to me that A.S.'s star has fallen, not based on any one thing, but based on the combination of at least three separate pieces of dirt. 1. His absolutely crappy attitude toward women. 2. His admiration-of-Hitler remark. 3. The Palast Energy Allegations. Of the three, it is the combination that pretty much seals it for me that I can't vote for him. I know an environmentalist that is working for Cruz and advocates voting for him. I am very confused and don't know how I'll vote on the recall or whom to vote for, but I keep focusing on the opportunity to vote for the Porn King (even if Hakan thinks our Porn is of lesser quality) so that when I am asked How could you vote for that purveyor of obscenity? I can respond Which purveyor of which obscenity are you referring to? On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:32:16 -0500, you wrote: Arnold Unplugged - It's hasta la vista to $9 billion if the Governator is selected Friday, October 3, 2003 http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=283row=0 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http
Re: [biofuel] Profiteers Empowered - Hasta La Vista, California
and family vote -- work with us to turn out thousands of unlikely voters by clicking here: http://moveon.org/pac/votecount/ Thank you, --Carrie, Eli, James, Joan, Noah, Peter, Wes, and Zack The MoveOn PAC Team October 6th, 2003 Paid for by MOVEON.ORG PAC, P.O. Box 9218, Berkeley, CA 94709. This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Website: www.moveonpac.org. Subscription Management This is a message from MoveOn.org PAC. To remove yourself (Peter N Fisk) from this list, please visit our subscription management page at: http://moveon.org/s?i=1758-1408479-mqaVl7VjToQt3cd8RfKFDw - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Profiteers Empowered - Hasta La Vista, California Yes, I read this. If it hadn't been Palast I might have been more easily able to dismiss it as well-timed propaganda wierdness. Over the last week, it has seemed to me that A.S.'s star has fallen, not based on any one thing, but based on the combination of at least three separate pieces of dirt. 1. His absolutely crappy attitude toward women. 2. His admiration-of-Hitler remark. 3. The Palast Energy Allegations. Of the three, it is the combination that pretty much seals it for me that I can't vote for him. I know an environmentalist that is working for Cruz and advocates voting for him. I am very confused and don't know how I'll vote on the recall or whom to vote for, but I keep focusing on the opportunity to vote for the Porn King (even if Hakan thinks our Porn is of lesser quality) so that when I am asked How could you vote for that purveyor of obscenity? I can respond Which purveyor of which obscenity are you referring to? On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:32:16 -0500, you wrote: Arnold Unplugged - It's hasta la vista to $9 billion if the Governator is selected Friday, October 3, 2003 http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=283row=0 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] USING SEPARATOR FOR AFTER WASH TREATMENT OF ME
Keith, I use to represent ALFA LAVAL as a local agent here in Tanzania. They provide centrifugal separation units for a wide range of raw materials, I was dealing in the Powergen side and units are used for cleaning lube and fuel oil in power generation. Then can be set-up to remove several phases which would prove very efficient on a large scale fuel clean-up/washing situation. Have a look at www/alfalaval.com They also deal in used equipment (factory reconditioned) Peter -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:57 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] USING SEPARATOR FOR AFTER WASH TREATMENT OF ME Hello Mark, Tomas and all Tomas, Where could I buy one at this price? I centrifuge all materials before washing on a lab level, so using the Alfie unit would give a level of automation. One problem you are having is residual glycerol contamination in the wash water causing it to cloud very quickly. Yes, as already pointed out. Not settling for long enough before the wash, or not washing enough. I find separating the two phases (ME and Glycerol) first such that they are both clear allows for a far cleaner wash. Further, I also find neutralising the pH wash water allows for a long term clear final product. Phosphoric acid will on a very small volume level crack the soaps back to FFA. I have two trains of thought on this - 1) I use ~10% by volume wash water pH neutralised on a automated closed loop system. It needs to be washed only once and the amount of H3PO4 used is in relative terms quite small. The wash water clears and hence can be recycled time and time again. But remember the soap will return back to FFA. The pysical volume with respect to the final bio-diesel is very small indeed, maybe 0.001% v/v. How did you calculate that? If it's that small an amount of FFA, then that little soap wouldn't make that much difference in washing, seems to me. 2) Wash the biodiesel with tap water say 2 or 3 times until the final stage water is clear. Spent water has to be put down the drain, which is a waste. No it doesn't, and no it isn't. You should reuse it - use the 2nd wash water for the next batch first wash, the 3rd wash water for the next batch 2nd wash and so on. So you're using each wash three times, only the 3rd wash is fresh. The first wash can't be reused, but it doesn't have to go down the drain either. A simple grey-water system will handle it well. We currently feed it to water hyacinths and duckweed, and compost the plants. Next step will be to reclaim cleansed water from the water hycinths and duckweed. In either case, the final glycerol can be pH neutralised with H3PO4 under closed loop control, the Sodium Phosphate precipitate removed via centrifuge, the water and ME separated via centrifuge. The final product is clear ME, neutral Glycerol and a compact solid fertilizer base. If you believe in fertilizers. Even if you do, mopst phosphates are applied to phosphate-rich soil, and most of what's applied quickly becomes unavailable to plants, like the rest. Phosphates are made available by biological action via the soil micro-life. Keep the micro-life happy and you don't need phosphates, nor any other fertilizers. Anyway, what do you mean by neutral Glycerol? You've accounted for the catalyst in the by-product cocktail, but not for the soap/FFA, which is probably most of it, and not for the excess methanol. I don't understand the perceived need for centrifuges etc etc etc. What for? It increases the production rate? I don't think so - maybe it shortens the production *time*. Well, so what? Settling, washing, bubble-drying will take maybe 4-5 days from starting processing to finished, clear fuel. So if you have space to store 4-5 days' production, that's all you need. If you've got your processing right, that is - if you find a need for all this just for a cleaner wash it might help to pay some attention to optimizing your process. Whatever, what I've seen of centrifuges so far doesn't exactly impress, and nor does the price. Best Keith Mark = Mark Schofield M.Sc B.Eng DHE AMIMechE t 07944 401662 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] Autogas Conversions and LPG Pumps Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1706996/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http:/www.ediets.com/start.cfm?co de=30509media=atkins click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1706996/rand=683621636 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non
RE: [biofuel] Synthetic Oil
Hi Aidan, Here is my little input. Oil condition is driven by fuel quality and engine hours. Properties of fuel and combustion effect quality of oil in operation. Filter performance gets better as the hours tick away until you get to the point of maximum differential allowed by the manufacturers (Before by-pass). On larger engines for power generation applications this differential (inlet/outlet pressure) is monitored. On larger engines oil is never changed only made up, as separate cleaning via centrifugal equipment removes the particles that cause filter blockage. On most of the more modern diesel engine power applications cartridge or throw away filters are no longer used. Edge-filters are used and back flushed. Only consumable item is the oil, when it is burnt during combustion or removed as a sludge from the filter unit. Peter From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:33 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Synthetic Oil Hello, Just my two cents on the issue of synthetic oil. Just to give you a little background on my knowledge of oil. I started an oil additive/friction reducer business about a year ago and in that time I have spent many many hours searching on the net and talking with mechanics, oil sales people, and average users. Don't fall into the trap of synthetic oils. They are better because the company makes more money! Change your oil on a regular basis and use a good filter. There are many reasons why you need to change your oil on a regular basis and none of them can be solved by more expensive oil any better than simply changing your oil often. The filter is the single most important part of an oil system. Some go into bypass mode early in life leaving your engine prone to abrasive particles and others clog too easily starving your engine of oil. Just my two cents. Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: geoff To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: [biofuel] Synthetic Oil I have been using Neo for many years Works great and they have many diffrernt types of oil http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/ Check it out Geoff Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1706996/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http:/www.ediets.com/start.cfm?co de=30509media=atkins click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1706996/rand=941928269 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Genetically modified oil seeds
Did anyone else here the news on the BBC world services yesterday about vehicles in the USA running of Jatropha weed, I only caught the end but we are looking at the development of Jatropha as a ãfuel cropä for Biodiesel in Tanzania, along a pilot project running a 300KW gas engine on methane from sisal waste. Does anyone know the potential for ethanol from sisal waste in terms of litres of ethanol per MT of sisal waste? The combination of Jatropha and ethanol means we could establish a serious Biodiesel center in Tanzania. Peter -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 12:50 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Genetically modified oil seeds Better in which way? ... or maybe, better for whom? Keith http://www.grain.org/seedling/seed-03-07-grainpage-en.cfm July 2003 | GRAIN supports the struggle against GM crops in Asia Seedling GRAIN page July 2003 GRAIN supports the struggle against GM crops in Asia Having been established in the Philippines since 1996 and India since 2001, GRAIN has found itself working more and more directly with different groups in the region. Many of these groups work with grassroots organisations on sustainable agriculture and local advocacy. One of the main and present dangers being faced in the region is the introduction, legally and illegally, of genetically modified (GM) crops. Through the years, GRAIN has worked in partnership with different organisations on their campaigns, helping to come up with information and analysis and catalysing actions around GM-related issues. One of these, The Long March for Biodiversity, was instrumental in persuading the Thai government to ban open field trials of GM crops in April 2001. Organised by BIOTHAI, with the active support and participation from GRAIN, this week-long caravan covered six major provinces in Thailand, bringing information to and catalysing campaigns at the grassroots level. It brought in groups from other parts of Asia and was instrumental in furthering linkages in the region. In 2000, GRAIN embarked on a joint project looking at current trends in agricultural research and development in Asia with BIOTHAI (Thailand), KMP (Philippines), MASIPAG (Philippines), PAN Indonesia, the Philippine Greens, UBINIG (Bangladesh) and a number of university-based professionals. This project produced a number of publications on, amongst other things, golden rice (rice genetically engineered to produce vitamin A) and hybrid rice (see www.grain.org/publications). These groups and individuals continue to be active players in the fight against GM crops and intellectual property rights on biodiversity and associated knowledge. In April this year in the Philippines, NGOs, activists and farmer-leaders belonging to the Network Opposed to Genetically Modified Organisms! (NO GMOs!) launched a hunger strike specifically demanding a halt on the commercial introduction of Monsanto's Bt corn. This act drew widespread support worldwide and has raised public awareness about GM crops in the country. After enduring for 30 days without food, Roberto Verzola of the Philippine Greens vowed to continue the fight and deepen the reach of the movement in the Philippines. In India recently, GRAIN has been working with the Andhra Pradesh Coalition in Defence of Diversity, a coalition of more than 140 civil society groups has been busy spreading the word about the failure of Bt cotton in Warangal, India (see p 13). GRAIN has been and continue to support these and other farmers groups and individuals, NGOs and activists fighting against the corporatisation of agriculture, which undermines the rights of farmers and farming communities' and control over their means of production. GRAIN's role has always been a supportive one - providing timely and relevant information and analysis, responding to requests and linking groups in the region. While the fight goes on, we look forward to establishing more linkages with farmers groups in the years to come. http://www.grain.org/seedling/ GRAIN | Seedling - GRAIN's quarterly magazine Seedling news July 2003 issue of Seedling is now available. http://www.grain.org/seedling/seed-03-07-en.cfm http://www.grain.org/docs/seed-03-07-en.pdf In the July 2003 issue of Seedling: Editorial: Blinded by the gene http://www.grain.org/seedling/seed-03-07-1-en.cfm by GRAIN Earlier this year, the scientific community celebrated the 50th anniversary of the discovery of the structure and function of DNA by Watson and Crick. There was a host of parties, conferences and special issues. Fifty years ago when the 'secret of life' was unveiled, expectations were high that this milestone discovery had given us the key to understanding the laws of heredity É. and the power to change them. Fifty years later, many believe we have now reached that point. Scientists are now able to move genes
RE: [biofuel] RE: UK Government's tax strategy for green fuels flawed
Darren, My understanding of tax laws in UK assisting Biodiesel is based on a reduction in the road taxed levied on Biodiesel to make it competitive with DERV. The reduction in tax was ?0.20 per litre or ($0.36/ltr). I did not think LPG was a renewable fuel however it may have fewer emissions. We must also remember what the government give away on the swings (up-front taxation) they get back on the roundabouts (Increased sales of Biodiesel). It's something the third world government treasury departments (Especially in African) have not learnt yet. Example here in Tanzania the import duty on LPG is 50%, thus it is only affordable to high income earners (1% population), where as the majority of people are burning charcoal on an unsustainable basis (conservative estimates of 1800 MT/day) none of which is taxed, driven by the informal sector. Peter -Original Message- From: Darren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:01 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com; biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] RE: UK Government's tax strategy for green fuels flawed Hakan . Your posting brings up, not only the failure of UK energy policies, but also the need of a simple understanding what taxes are and how they work. I have a basic understanding of taxation and it's effects on a countries economy but I'm no economic expert. Still I've included my comments 1. How can anyone talk about lost revenue or quantify it in the way the article does? It is no such thing as lost tax revenue, despite that the politician like us to think so. We are left with two possibilities, either the politicians do not understand this with taxation, or the are trying to fool us. It could also be a combination of the alternatives. My understanding is that the reduced tax rate for LPG - almost 40p litre below that of other fossil fuels -reduced the taxation collected for this fuel by the amount specified, thus 'lost' tax revenue. Am I missing something? 2. UK who is calculating that they will be a net energy importer again around 2010, does not have an energy plan or policy that will work. They are in deep sh-t. You could well be right. There are grand plans for a number of very large offshore wind farms here, which are being implemented. Do you know if the 2010 date takes the possible outputs from these wind farms into account? 3. In its position as a country with special relationship with US, it was a UK politician that suggested nearly 3 billion Euro for development of hydrogen (we not only have to mimic US, we have to be worse). The EU commission slashed this suggestion with 90%, the argument was that the technology would probably not show advances to motivate such a large grant. It would in best case help UK with its coal industry and it is no reason why EU should give so much money for that. I think many of us could think of ways to spend the money to gain advantages sooner! 4. My explanation and suggestions at, http://energy.saving.nu/vehicles/taxes.shtml might after all be a worthwhile exercise and subject to input from more list members. Hakan I read through your tax page, some of my thoughts:- I like the idea of separating energy policy and taxation away from politics. It has often been stated on these lists, and I think it is true, that real progress in energy policy would not necessarily gain widespread approval from 'the people'. The pill being to bitter to swallow easily. Politicians may well fear that any radical legislation that could restrict the 'comfortable western lifestyle' - read consumer/car culture - would be suicide at election time. Energy crises of course would allow for more radical (sensible) energy conservation/production schemes to be implemented without resistance from 'the people' as was shown during the 70s oil crisis. The lobbying/campaign contribution effects of the energy/oil companies also no doubt apply considerable pressure to the politicians with regard to such issues. Energy policy would no doubt improve significantly if they were isolated from the political process. Ensuring that the body that oversees such policy is not unduly influenced by external pressures would of course be important. The idea of earmarking fuel taxes for use in development and implementation of a sustainable energy plan appears sensible. If such a plan encouraged the creation of smaller energy providers other advantages could be gained. Energy would be gained form a diverse range of sources providing a greater defence against supply/price problems, also these companies may not be as effective at implementing tax avoidance schemes as the large energy companies appear; there would be a *tax advantage*. Best Darren Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3551198.4824677.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
Hi Darren, Aiden, The IDGTE (Institution of Diesel Gas Turbine Engineers) UK have been involved in burning both tallow and WVO with new technology which involves oxygen enrichment of intake air which allows all of the fuel to be combusted. The process involves a membrane that filters the nitrogen out. Saves approx 23 pence (37 cents US) per litre on esterification. I hope to start a pilot project running a small Genset here in Tanzania using a variety of essential oils (Jatropha, Moringa, Neem etc) just to see what happens to the engine, lube oil etc. We hope to get support from CAT and will keep you all posted. Aiden, Lots of Gensets run in CHP (combined heat power) making steam from the exhaust of a diesel which can be sold if you are generating alongside a client who needs both kW electrical and kW thermal. Suggest you visit : www.dti.gov.uk/renewable/index.html for links to companies providing support and advise Good luck Peter . -Original Message- From: Darren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 4:35 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 July 2003 16:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. I think that selection of a suitable genset for this fuel type is crucial to such a project. I know of a project here in the UK that set up, running tallow for fuel. The engine was plagued with coking problems which the owner was unable to solve despite bringing in various experts in the field. Eventually he sold the project as a going concern without ever solving the problems. Read this for more info http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605551m=360 6 s=447609751f=159605551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 If I was involved in such a project and wanted/needed everything to be up and running ASAP with the least problems I'd be looking at indirect injection engines, less energy efficient but also much less likely to have these kind of problems which could kill such an undertaking. It should of course be possible to undertake such with a direct injection engine just that the fact that any engine should run fine on these fuels should not be taken for granted. DI should be considered more experimental (or risky) Darren Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1595054/R=0/SIG=124f8kfa7/*http:/ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitake nattogyo?YH=3512152yhad=1595054 Click Here! http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1595054/rand=972974723 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Inkjet cartridges up to 80% off. HP, Epson, Lexmark--we have your brand. Free shipping on every order to the U.S. and Canada! Excellent service. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWB0QC/.eUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments
Mark, I know of a project where they have been burning WVO and tallow, there is an on going project at Didcot (UK) with 9 x 1.6 MWe 3512 CAT units on WVO and tallow, monitoring the emissions, Oxygen is being provided across the fence from a facility who produce the stuff as a by-product. Will let you know the results of the tests as and when Peter (ex-Stockport UK, now Tanzania) . -Original Message- From: mark schofield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 5:17 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Who was running that project Darren? Mark, Manchester, UK --- Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 July 2003 16:50 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Brain fart. Any comments Hello, first of all this is just a brain fart. I was toying with the idea of community supplied power from a diesel generator running on WVO. I have located several large generators. The one I was toying with was a 650Kw that uses 174 L/h at 100% load. I think that selection of a suitable genset for this fuel type is crucial to such a project. I know of a project here in the UK that set up, running tallow for fuel. The engine was plagued with coking problems which the owner was unable to solve despite bringing in various experts in the field. Eventually he sold the project as a going concern without ever solving the problems. Read this for more info http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=159605551m=360 6 s=447609751f=159605551m=3606 06161r=170606161#170606161 If I was involved in such a project and wanted/needed everything to be up and running ASAP with the least problems I'd be looking at indirect injection engines, less energy efficient but also much less likely to have these kind of problems which could kill such an undertaking. It should of course be possible to undertake such with a direct injection engine just that the fact that any engine should run fine on these fuels should not be taken for granted. DI should be considered more experimental (or risky) Darren Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1595053/R=0/SIG=1245der9k/*http:/ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitake nattogyo?YH=3512152yhad=1595053 Click Here! http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=244522.3512152.4794593.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1595053/rand=287332801 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save on Coral Calcium. Get Better Health and Stronger Bones. Seen on TV http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid-2805lp=calcium2.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/9gf46B/EfUGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel conversion for boilers
Hi Myles, May I ask what is the cost of your Biodiesel/litre or gallon? Are you home brewing? Peter Gathercole Development Director Biomass Energy Tanzania Limited -Original Message- From: Myles Twete [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 8:44 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel conversion for boilers Hi Kent- Oil-fired boilers use pressure-atomizing burners with high pressure pumps. These pumps have rubber seals. Those rubber seals will likely eventually leak with 100% biodiesel. We have seen this with 3 pumps on our home heating oil furnace. The seal leaking might not be a problem depending on the type of burner. With our Riello burner it was---it still slightly drips from the shaft seal, but fortunately, the Riello shaft doesn't connect directly to the fan as older burners did, so at least the dripping doesn't hit the fan and blow all over the air tube and turbulator. Our main problem was nozzle drip due to the biodiesel eroding the pump stop seal or thermal expansion or whateverwe reduced this somewhat by retrofitting a drip slide so this drippage would be carried away to the bottom of the turbulator and not blown into it and caking on its face. Finally, by installing a Hago EcoValve and Nozzle, we've eliminated the dripping problem. Finally, low-temps (50deg in our case) increase the viscosity of the biodiesel and were causing failed heater starts, or sporatic ones. You shouldn't have that problem in Costa Rica. We finally decided to go with a 50/50 biodiesel blend on our oil heating system fuel to make it so we don't need to worry about failed cold starts. On a boat here in Portland, we've been successfully burning 100% biodiesel in an oil-fired industrial 200psi Bryan boiler. No problems over the past couple years so far---might be nozzle drip or seal leakage, but we haven't checked and haven't had any burning problems. In case this helps- -Myles Twete, Portland, Or. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1564415/R=0/SIG=11t6t7kdo/*http:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqs o=60164784partid=3170658 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1564415/rand=205315006 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Searching for a processor
Dear Rajesh, I would like to have some more details on how you are using the waste oil from the hotel. Are you running the Gensets on pure WVO or mixing it with normal distillate diesel oil? Also do you filter and drain water before storing? What engines are running with the WVO (Perkins/CAT/Cummins ect) Any details would be much appreciated. Peter Gathercole Development Director Biomass Energy Tanzania Limited PO Box 31748, Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania Tel/Fax: +255 22 267 Cell:+ 255 (0)744 785340 The data contained within this email and any accompanying or attached file is legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity for whom it was intended. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, storing, distribution or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you please notify us immediately by telephone, fax or return email and thereafter delete the transmission you have received. We shall be pleased to reimburse any reasonable costs incurred. -Original Message- From: rajesh sk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:53 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Searching for a processor Hi Pamela, I will intriduce myself, i am a chemical engineer and doing research in development of biodiesel as a alternative fuel in motor vehicles in Indian Institute of Technolgy New Delhi, India. The used cooking oil can processed to produce biodiesel.THe process set up is simple and set in hotel itself and utilized for running diesel gnerators. It will save fuel usage. THink over it, if u want any help please fell free to contact. Rajesh Chemical Engineer 256, Mission Project office , Block II, IIT Delhi, Hauzkhas, NewDelhi-110016 India pam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi...My family owns a restaurant in Virginia. We are having major problems disposing of used restaurant cooking oil. There is only one grease pick-up company in the area and they have not picked-up oil in almost a year dispite prepayment. Do you have ANY information on alternative processors? Thanks - Pamela - Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Catch all the cricket action. Download Yahoo! Score tracker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3313099.4604523.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1595053/R=0/SIG=124orar12/*http:/ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitake nattogyo?YH=3313099yhad=1595053 Click Here! http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=244522.3313099.4604523.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1595053/rand=402885489 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Oh boy :Was; Re: Neither Right nor Left but Dead on Center
Dear Keith, According to my contacts in the UK, you can obtain waste cooking oil from all the fish chip shops, Indian restaurants etc and must record how much you collected and then pay the fuel tax directly to Her majestyâs government. Keep up the great work Peter (Tanzania) -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 4:27 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oh boy :Was; Re: Neither Right nor Left but Dead on Center Hi Gustl That's a very good 2 cents' worth, thankyou! Mine was only 2 yen. Hallo Keith , Sunday, 08 June, 2003, 22:24:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA As for off-topic political crap (in other words, I don't agree KA with it), ...snip... If I may add my 2 cents worth. In Michigan the DEQ (Dept. of Environmental Quality) has ruled that transporting used cooking oil as well as producing biodiesel must be classified as hazardous and applies all the restrictions which the term hazardous requires in the handling of the oil and production of the fuel including requiring a CDL with a HAZMAT endorsement. What this means is that Michigan is imposing large fees to everything involved in the production of biodiesel including the collection of the used oil. It pretty effectively excludes farmers and small time operators from producing biodiesel. Very political considering biodiesel is biodegradeable and used oil doesn't meet any of the 4 requirements the federal government has applied to hazardous materials. Another fact. If I drive my truck over to the nearest McDonalds and the waste oil hauler is there I may pay him for the used oil and then the McDonalds employees or myself may put the oil onto my truck and then I may take it anywhere I please with no restrictions without the waste hauler ever having been in possession of the oil. Why? The hauler was handling a waste product while I would be handling a new product even though the hauler never handled the product at all. That's nuts! All a load of political horse manure for the benefit of government and large business interests. Sure is. These crazy rules are the result of bureaucrats furthering their interests - ie, problem maintenance rather than problem resolution: more and more rules and regs about less and less. But on top of that it inevitably starts to lean towards favouring big biz interests, an unholy alliance indeed, and very anti-people. But AFAIK the EPA classifies used cooking oil as a hazardous waste, I guess that might be what gave Michigan its basis for this nonsense. On the other hand, if the EPA were really serious about it maybe such a very large proportion of it wouldn't end up in sewers and landfills. The fact that nobody clearly knows even how much is produced might be an indication of how serious they are. That seems to apply to most countries, with the exception of a few EU countries where it's been studied. Happy Happy, Gustl PS-Ohio is much easier to deal with and much more reasonable when it comes to biodiesel. And you're in Michigan? I must say Japan is proving reasonable enough. In Hong Kong the gubmint tried to stop us, but here there are no obstacles at all, or not as yet. The municipal folks approve and will probably help, Tokyo also approves these days: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=19390 http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=19390list=BIOFUEL list=BIOFUEL Regards Keith Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1482387/R=0/SIG=16ng5s1q5/*http:/ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLm Rhd=1055244669%3eM=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050832 69:HM/A=1482387/R=1=1055244669%3eM=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egro upweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1482387/R=2 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1482387/rand=196280728 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http
RE: [biofuel] RE: [biofuels] A new member from Tanzania
? The Institution of Diesel and Gas Turbine Engineers (IDGTE) have been experimenting with used cooking oil and tallow and have run a CAT series 3500 unit. No details as it is development but trials have shown through addition of oxygen into the air manifold the fuel has a greater and more efficient combustibility and this process is cheaper than any other. http://uk.srd.yahoo.com/S=1254:WS1/R=5/K=www.idgte.org/*-http:/www. dieselnet.com/com/xg019.html The Institution of Diesel and Gas Turbine Engineers (IDGTE) - ... Engineers (IDGTE). Address: PO BOX 43, Bedford MK40 4JB, UK. Telephone: +44.1234.214.340. Fax: +44.1234.355.493. Web: http://www.idgte.org/. ... www.dieselnet.com/com/xg019.html http://uk.srd.yahoo.com/S=1254:WS3/R=5/K=www.idgte.org/*-http:/uk.s earch.yahoo.com/search/ukie?p=www.idgte.orghq=site:www.dieselnet.comh= Wy=y [More Results from www.dieselnet.com] Peter -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:22 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] RE: [biofuels] A new member from Tanzania ??? On Saturday, May 31, 2003, at 04:15 AM, Peter wrote: oxygen enrichment that is cheaper and highly effective. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1564415/R=0/SIG=11t6t7kdo/*http:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqs o=60164784partid=3170658 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1564415/rand=590392228 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biogas from chicken manure
Dear Keith, I know of a project in Spain where they are producing power and steam from chicken and pig manure. It's a CHP (combined heat and power scheme) powered by Rolls-Royce power systems equipment. Also a company in the UK namely Clarke Energy have gas engines that specialize on producer gas (Methane from waste) and could provide some engineering solutions if you are looking on a scale of more than 500KWe (300KWth) Details below http://www.jxj.com/suppands/renenerg/companypage.php/CPID__2437 Let me know how you go. Peter Gathercole Development Director Biomass Energy Tanzania Limited PO Box 31748, Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania Tel/Fax: +255 22 267 Cell:+ 255 (0)744 785340 The data contained within this email and any accompanying or attached file is legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity for whom it was intended. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, storing, distribution or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you please notify us immediately by telephone, fax or return email and thereafter delete the transmission you have received. We shall be pleased to reimburse any reasonable costs incurred. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 1:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biogas from chicken manure Does anyone have pointers re producing biogas / methane from chicken manure, and its subsequent use in firing heaters for nurseries ? Tony Hi Tony Embarrassment of riches. These are a start... Bioenergy: Topics on Gasification Archives: Prior to 2003 - 2003 Forward To Subscribe and Account Maintenence http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/ REPP-CREST : DISCUSSION GROUPS http://www5.gtz.de/gate/techinfo/biogas/toc.html AT Information - Biogas Digest: Index http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/info/ecuador/install-polydi g.htm HOW TO INSTALL A POLYETHYLENE BIOGAS PLANT http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0541e/T0541E00.htm Contents Biogas processes for sustainable development http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/biodi g/manual.htm Biodigester installation manual http://biorealis.com/digester/construction.html Digester Construction http://www.undp.org/seed/energy/policy/ch_8.htm Chapter 8: Community Biogas Plants Supply Rural Energy and Water http://www.biogasworks.com/ Biogas Works Home Page http://danpatch.ecn.purdue.edu/~epados/swine/pubs/methane.htm Methane Generation From Livestock Waste http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/farmmgt/05002.html Methane Generation From Livestock Wastes http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/methane.htm Methane Digesters http://roseworthy.adelaide.edu.au/~pharris/biogas/beginners.html Beginners Guide to BIOGAS - Paul Harris, The University of Adelaide Regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1482387/R=0/SIG=16n9h9bu2/*http:/ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLm Rhd=1054328180%3eM=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050832 69:HM/A=1482387/R=1=1054328180%3eM=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egro upweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1482387/R=2 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1482387/rand=869627130 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biogas from chicken manure
Toni, Also see this, Fibrowatt, Norfolk - using chicken litter to generate electricity. A well-established generating plan, which produces enough electricity to power 12,000 homes from a renewable resource. Contact Nina Butcher at Fibrowatt on 0171 229 9252 UK Peter Gathercole Development Manager M.P. Independent Power Engineering Ltd PO Box 31748, Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania Tel/Fax: +255 22 267 Cell:+ 255 (0)744 785340 The data contained within this email and any accompanying or attached file is legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity for whom it was intended. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, storing, distribution or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you please notify us immediately by telephone, fax or return email and thereafter delete the transmission you have received. We shall be pleased to reimburse any reasonable costs incurred. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 1:52 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biogas from chicken manure Does anyone have pointers re producing biogas / methane from chicken manure, and its subsequent use in firing heaters for nurseries ? Tony Hi Tony Embarrassment of riches. These are a start... Bioenergy: Topics on Gasification Archives: Prior to 2003 - 2003 Forward To Subscribe and Account Maintenence http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/ REPP-CREST : DISCUSSION GROUPS http://www5.gtz.de/gate/techinfo/biogas/toc.html AT Information - Biogas Digest: Index http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/info/ecuador/install-polydi g.htm HOW TO INSTALL A POLYETHYLENE BIOGAS PLANT http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0541e/T0541E00.htm Contents Biogas processes for sustainable development http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/biodi g/manual.htm Biodigester installation manual http://biorealis.com/digester/construction.html Digester Construction http://www.undp.org/seed/energy/policy/ch_8.htm Chapter 8: Community Biogas Plants Supply Rural Energy and Water http://www.biogasworks.com/ Biogas Works Home Page http://danpatch.ecn.purdue.edu/~epados/swine/pubs/methane.htm Methane Generation From Livestock Waste http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/farmmgt/05002.html Methane Generation From Livestock Wastes http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/methane.htm Methane Digesters http://roseworthy.adelaide.edu.au/~pharris/biogas/beginners.html Beginners Guide to BIOGAS - Paul Harris, The University of Adelaide Regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor http://rd.yahoo.com/M=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1482387/R=0/SIG=16n9h9bu2/*http:/ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLm Rhd=1054328180%3eM=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17050832 69:HM/A=1482387/R=1=1054328180%3eM=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egro upweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1482387/R=2 http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=247865.3355058.4641699.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1482387/rand=869627130 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: [biofuels] A new member from Tanzania
Hi all, As a newcomer on the block I do not know where to start but here goes. I have a company based here in Tanzania dealing with biomass and would like to learn more about bio-diesel, how to grow and make the stuff and use it for rural development here in TZ. Lots of upside with growing, extracting and using the fuel for rural electrification. I understand from the small knowledge I have that with larger more robust and slower rpm industrial diesel sets, they can handle this fuel without too much distress, plus the carbon financing element will help the economics considerably. I have also learnt that trials in the UK with used cooking oil have been successful without esterification, but through oxygen enrichment that is cheaper and highly effective. Can anyone assist with the basics of which crops are best suited to growing your own stuff. This would be taken on as a small scale project to begin with, giving local farmers an income to produce the fuel crop. Once the first phase oil as been extracted, what is the cost to make it into Bio-diesel? (Based on your experience on a small scale are we looking at $0.20 a litre or what??) Can the process be enlarged for greater volumes on an industrial scale? Land is not an issue here so we could grown as much as we needed for a B5/B10 type of project (B5=5% Bio-additive in gas oil) As they say every little helps. Peter Gathercole Development Director Biomass Energy Tanzania Limited PO Box 31748, Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania Tel/Fax: +255 22 267 Cell:+ 255 (0)744 785340 The data contained within this email and any accompanying or attached file is legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity for whom it was intended. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, storing, distribution or taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, you please notify us immediately by telephone, fax or return email and thereafter delete the transmission you have received. We shall be pleased to reimburse any reasonable costs incurred. -Original Message- From: girl mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 2:51 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com; biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] homebrewers, and industry lessons? (crossposted from biofuels-biz)At 01:23 PM 5/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: Hi levent, Just a few comments on home quality control: Levent wrote: I do not know the situation in USA. I agree that home brewers can destroy the market if they produce and sell bad-products. mark wrote: Are you speaking from experience with 'bad homebrew?' I also want to point out that homebrewers don't generally 'sell' fuel- so there's no huge danger in terms of the market. Co-ops of homebrewers do make fuel for their own internal use, but the minute someone approaches 'selling' on any scale that matters (ie bigger than a coop), they're subject to more scrutiny about compliance with regulations regarding ASTM testing, etc. One big fault of Graham Noyes' original post which started this 'homebrewers destroyed the market' rumor- is that the rumor was simply untrue. Several of us who are VERY familiar with the homebrewers AND the industry in the Western US, explicitly asked Graham what part of the country he was talking about - what state, etc. As usual there simply was NO situation fitting his description. He eventually backed down from that assertion, as Keith pointed out in the recent quotes he posted from Graham. It seems that it is not entirely clear this time, that there simply has NOT been a case of this (widespread bad homebrew distribution (see caveat in my next post)) causing acceptance problems for biodiesel, whereas there have been several cases of industry causing similar problems. In many ways, it is much easier for industry to do damage than for homebrewers to do damage, due to the difference in volumes handled. Most 'consumers' are at least at first somewhat skeptical of homebrew and tend to ask questions about it, so the choice to use potentially untested homebrew or a DIY vegoil method is usually more of an informed decision- and of course it's our responsibility to represent homebrew, commercial, and SVO methods accurately at all times to people we're educating! *** lessons about consumers: If you follow the link to the biodieselnow discussion on the bad quality World Energy fuel- http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=941 you will see a few very irate arguments from the man who bought the 'bad' stuff from World Energy. I think that this thread contains some good lessons for us: One of his big points is that he pays a premium price for the fuel- and that for that price, the stuff should have at least met spec. (I hear lots of people say they're willing to take risks on homebrewing
[biofuel] COOKING OIL USES !
-shibagiri, Kanie-cho Ama-gun, Aichi Prefecture 497 Phone05679-6- Fax 05679-5-0202 Atten : Kosho Yasui ( Chairman ) Best regards. Peter Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] All messages have been scanned with NORTON ANTI VIRUS and are believed to be virus free. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [biofuel] diesel engine after market products?
Reply composed at2002-08-22 04:05:46 BST (UTC +1 hour)
Original Subject: Re: [biofuel] diesel engine after market products? Original
Date: 2002-08-22 Original Time: 10:20:00
Original Sender's Name: Christopher Witmer
Original Sender's Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Original Recipient's Name: biofuel
Original Recipient's Address: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
--
My Reply:
--
I aggree with Mark Payton, the MB's tend to be a bit sluggish on pick up.
I currently have a Peugeot 505 Estate, and with about 2 Tons of load in the
back,
pulling a caravan weight about 3 Tons total, (i.e. overweight (about 6 Tons
g.v.w.)
my acceleration is a bit like the MB 300D auto that I upgraded from. The 505
has a
2.5L with no Turbo!
Original Message Quoted:
I have a 1.95 liter IDI turbocharged diesel Nissan van that seats nine
people. With nine people, a big dog and a fair amount of luggage stuffed
into it, this vehicle still gets the job done, although the acceleration
is definitely sluggish.
Among aftermarket items that can improve a diesel engine's performance
(or at least prevent degradation of performance) are:
* turbocharger, intercooler
* alcohol/water injection
* LPG (propane) injection (or methane)
* propylene glycol cooling system
* fine filtration of the oil (e.g. Franz {toilet paper filter)
I don't doubt that if I were to install all these in my car, it would be
sufficiently peppy even with a heavy load.
Christopher Witmer
Tokyo
Mark Payton wrote:
I am aware that there have been some significant advances in diesel
technology in the last few years. One notable improvement is the common
rail technology. One of my few complaints with my 85 Mercedes Diesel is the
sluggishness on acceleration, which the common rail is supposed to correct.
Does anyone know whether there are after-market products that bring this or
any of the other improvements to older engines?
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Re: [biofuels-biz] genetic engineering
Please send me a copy too. The highest oil yields that i have seen thus far in my research are that of oil palm, so its probably going to acquire some genetic traits from that species. = Peter Pantilla (632)-817-5813 (63)-917-523-1539 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] racecar methanol
Hi, I'm new to the list serve. Question about methanol... I can get some 99% pure for 7$/ gallon however some folks using it for racecars inthe area can sell it cheaper-like 3$/gal. I'm wondering if there are additives in the fuel for race cars I should be wary of and if they will negatively affect the reaction when I'm mixing w/ the grease? Thanks, PC Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] vacuum filtering
Hi Dana,,I thought I would give you time to get settled back in from your trip.. You know on my datsun diesel sd22 I have been using those expensive napa gold filters for my fuel and they cost $7-10 at a pop... I go thru about 3 a year so I decided to take the filter with me into Wall mart and I found a nice STP spin on oil filter same size and fit that costs only $1.10 and I have been using them very successfully I have a fabrication shop (small) here and it's easy to weld up the aluminum and lately I have been scrounging the junkyars for those nice aluminum oil filter holders (the ones that attach to the engine) and then modify them for the stp spin on's,, anyway I like the vacuume approach thru probably a type of filter cone to remove the chunks and then thru the spin on..?? I am thinking of putting a 55 gallon drum on the bottom with a wood fire in it and on top another 55 gallon drum with the crude vegitable oil being heated, as I am presuming that heated oil will flow about a ton better thru those filters then cold... At any rate that is my rambling for now.. Again thanks for any help Peter Carlich -Original Message- From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] vacuum filtering Hi Peter, The filters I am currently using are spin on filters for fuel tanks. I can't recommend them though as I plan on converting to a spun filter as soon as I can obtain them. I am waiting for the catalogs now. I don't have a diagram...and my scanner just quit. If you still want it in a week (I'll be gone till next Monday) I will try to draw something out. I may be simply able to describe it but I have to catch a flight very soon. Please remind me if you still need it next week. Basically it is a gravity flow system which uses a vacuum applied to the filtered WVO tank to pull the oil through the filters and into the tank rather than gravity pushing it. To do this you must have no vents to the atmosphere on the final tank except the one that the vacuum is applied to, hoses and tanks that won't collapse when a vacuum is applied to them, and a regulator on the amount of vacuum applied. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful right now. Dana --- Peter Carlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dana.. Nice post on the vacuum filter,,I would like to rig up one of these beasts to filter my warmed svo,,when you speak of disposalable filters do you mean the spin on's that you can get at the auto parts store?? Also Is there a diagram somewhere showing the vacuum setup..?? Peter [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/Gi0tnD/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 85 suburban
John... Those engines were dogs, worthless dogs... Peter -Original Message- From: John Blackmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 3:32 PM Subject: [biofuel] 85 suburban Anyone familiar with the chevy diesls of yesteryear? I'm about to buy an old 6.2L suburban--are they trustworthy engines? An engine that old would require the rubber seals and lines to be replaced to run on biodiesel, right? John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production
Thank you for the Austrian Din Standard. I will forward your question to Mr. Berry. I will be traveling for the next two weeks and look forward to re-joining the group upon my return. Regards to all, Peter Krasinski OAE PS: We concur QC will be of the utmost importance to the growth and acceptance for BD world wide. Thanks again -Original Message- From: Camillo.Holecek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 12:12 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: AW: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production Austrian standard ON C 1191 requires 0/-15 centigrade (summer/winter) DIN E 51606 requires 0/-20 The proposed CEN standard defines climate zones and gives five classes, non of them above -20 for winter quality. VW is making a hell of an issue about CFPP right now, claiming it causes them resent injector pump problems. That is the reason, why I would still like you to answer that simple question within the scope of this dedicated disscussion group. Kind regards, Camillo Holecek -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.onelist.com]Im Auftrag von Peter Krasinski Gesendet: Donnerstag, 02. August 2001 19:45 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Cc: Wes Berry (E-mail); [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production Mr.Holecek To answer your questions. 1. ASTM standard does not require CFPP test however it states the cloud point specification to be :By customer. 2. Regarding additional details pertaining to CFPP BD from tallow please feel free to contact Mr. Wes Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for your interest. Peter Krasinski OAE -Original Message- From: Camillo.Holecek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 1:21 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: AW: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production Dear Sir, please allow us unbelivers a simple question: What is the CFPP temperature required according to ASTM standard? And what exactly was the CFPP you could achive in your BD from 100% tallow feedstock ? Camillo Holecek Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.onelist.com]Im Auftrag von Peter Krasinski Gesendet: Mittwoch, 01. August 2001 21:21 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Cc: Mahesh Talwar (E-mail); [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production Dear Sir, Your concern is un warranted! We have successfully produced fuel from tallow conforming to ASTM standard for diesel fuel. If you would like to visit our facility we offer a standing invitation to any one interested. in the meantime I have attached a overview describing our process capability. A NOTE from The CEO: Thank you for the input. We have already changed the host server for the web and the new site should be operational in a couple of days. You should send all your inquiries to Peter Krasinski and they will be replied promptly. Thank you for your patience. M. Talwar OceanAir Environmental Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=Peter S. Krasinski (E-mail).vcf Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Peter S. Krasinski (E-mail).vcf Attachment converted: Handmade:Peter S. Krasinski (E-mail).vcf (/) (0007B65A)
RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production
Mr.Holecek To answer your questions. 1. ASTM standard does not require CFPP test however it states the cloud point specification to be :By customer. 2. Regarding additional details pertaining to CFPP BD from tallow please feel free to contact Mr. Wes Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for your interest. Peter Krasinski OAE -Original Message- From: Camillo.Holecek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 1:21 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: AW: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production Dear Sir, please allow us unbelivers a simple question: What is the CFPP temperature required according to ASTM standard? And what exactly was the CFPP you could achive in your BD from 100% tallow feedstock ? Camillo Holecek Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.onelist.com]Im Auftrag von Peter Krasinski Gesendet: Mittwoch, 01. August 2001 21:21 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Cc: Mahesh Talwar (E-mail); [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production Dear Sir, Your concern is un warranted! We have successfully produced fuel from tallow conforming to ASTM standard for diesel fuel. If you would like to visit our facility we offer a standing invitation to any one interested. in the meantime I have attached a overview describing our process capability. A NOTE from The CEO: Thank you for the input. We have already changed the host server for the web and the new site should be operational in a couple of days. You should send all your inquiries to Peter Krasinski and they will be replied promptly. Thank you for your patience. M. Talwar OceanAir Environmental Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=Peter S. Krasinski (E-mail).vcf Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Peter S. Krasinski (E-mail).vcf Attachment converted: Handmade:Peter S. Krasinski (E-mail).v 1 (/) (0007B563)
RE: [biofuels-biz] Re: Biodiesel Production
Dear Sir, Your concern is un warranted! We have successfully produced fuel from tallow conforming to ASTM standard for diesel fuel. If you would like to visit our facility we offer a standing invitation to any one interested. in the meantime I have attached a overview describing our process capability. A NOTE from The CEO: Thank you for the input. We have already changed the host server for the web and the new site should be operational in a couple of days. You should send all your inquiries to Peter Krasinski and they will be replied promptly. Thank you for your patience. M. Talwar OceanAir Environmental 4220 Donlon Road Somis, CA 93066 Ph (805) 386-1882 Fax (805) 386-1884 Cell Ph. (805) 340-2484, E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biodiesel Website: www.oceanairenvironmental.com THIS SITE IS UNDER RE-DEVELOPMENT! The following overview provides general technology and economic information and a brief outline of some of the services OAE can provide for your biodiesel project. OceanAir Environmental owns and operates a biodiesel (methyl ester) production facility in Lakeland, Florida, that was designed primarily for processing used cooking oils. Technology advances, compared to that normally used for processing of low fatty acid seed oils, enable us to process very high fatty acid grease and oils that are not considered typical biodiesel feedstocks. To date we have processed feedstocks such as used cooking oils; yellow greases; tallow; lard; and waste animal grease containing in excess of 30% free fatty acid (FFA). In addition, we have processed other high fatty acid streams (in excess of 40% FFA) from internally generated intermediates. As a result of our previous work and extensive background in the processing of an array of feedstocks, we now offer technology licensing and engineering services for the production of biodiesel. As an operating company ourselves we can provide a range of support services to our Clients, and keep them up-to-date via our on-going technology and process operational improvement programs. We are also in the position of being able to work with Clients in a flexible manner so as to achieve the most cost effective project economics. BACKGROUND: The company was formed in late 1992 to carry out laboratory and pilot plant work, and continued development has led to the current process design. A commercial-scale demonstration operation was completed in early 1996 that serves as both a production operation and demonstration unit for the processing of the various feedstocks. In mid-2000, OceanAir Environmental Fuels and Glycerine, LLC acquired the operation and has completed an initial technology up-grade program. The facility has a current production capability of about 10 million gallons biodiesel product per year. As a result of increasing biodiesel demand in the U.S. we are in the process of ramping up to the current capacity of the operation. In mid-1998, we began the process of assembling and evaluating the current plant design and operational data with the specific objective of formalizing this information into an overall process design package. This package was completed in early 1999, and is used for in-house needs as well as the basis for plant designs at other locations. Our services now include licensing the technology to others, then working with Clients via a flexible range of options ranging from provision of a basic technology package, to a complete facility through arrangements with engineering contractors. In addition, due to the nature of our design, and depending on the size of the facility, it is possible to modularize the plant so that it can be assembled and tested in a shop environment, then shipped to the site for set-up in the field. PROCESS CONCEPT: OAE Engineering Services has developed a flexible process for the production of methyl or ethyl esters (biodiesel) from a variety of vegetable oil sources, such as used cooking oils, virgin soybean oil, and the like, especially those containing high free fatty acid contents. From an operational standpoint, the OAE process is straightforward and does not rely on complicated or technically demanding methods to produce the fuel product. Inherent flexibility in the design allows the operator to accept a variety of feeds, thus increasing the attractiveness of the operation. Operational experience confirms the applicability of our modified process technology, and further simplifies the equipment required for biodiesel production, by allowing OAE to take the crude bottoms (by-product glycerol stream) from the ester production operation and transport them to Lakeland, thus eliminating the need to treat these materials at the fuel production site. The crude bottoms are stored at the biodiesel production site, then periodically shipped to OAE for processing. By handling the bottoms in this fashion, a significant reduction in capital and operating cost can be achieved. While glycerine has
[biofuel] Pressurized distillation for power extraction
Keith -- I can see alcohol distillation as a by product of a boiler vapor cycle. But not at the present low temps. With butane as working fluid -- for example -- it would be nice to be operating at 400 F. Now -- here is the plan -- condense alcohol at higher temperature under pressure! Verbal flow diagram. Think of a pressurized distillation column. You could direct fire or steam heat the mash. Which would boil up through the column. Condensers at the top -- with redirects for the effluents. Water would return to the pot -- alcohol separated and out of this system. I would have to look up the vapor characteristics of alcohol -- but just to guess Water would be condensing at 445 F at 400 psi pressure. Alcohol would not! First stage is condensing the water out at 445 F -- second stage would be condensing the alcohol out by further reducing its temperature -- higher up the same column. In both cases temperature reduction for condensation is accomplished by boiling butane -- which in turn produces power using an Ormat style device. You now have a power plant that distills alcohol as a side line! Greatly reducing heat requirements/losses. Further -- if you can get the vapor tables for alcohol -- you may find a larger spread in condensing temperatures exist at these pressures -- which would mean better extraction efficiencies. Has anyone used pressurized stills yet? Directly introducing high pressure/temperature steam to the mash pot would accomplish this purpose - A 400 psi -- 445 F boiler is a simple -- old fashioned -- fire tube boiler. Cheap and easy to acquire. In the sugar cane example -- these are more or less the style boilers they have now -- burning bagasse. So there you go -- the bagasse would then be supplying steam for power and distillation -- but all in one pass. Hey - this could really change the way people are looking at this process. Peter Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: GAS-L: Alcohol fuel still plans and designs
Hi Keith; You must experiment with fermenting the boiled liquor extract from sugar cane -- not the pressed/expressed extract. The boiled extract contains so much more minerals -- you need add nothing -- not even yeast -- for a violent fermentation to start and run to completion. I mention a conservative 14% -- but if you optimize sugar levels -- it goes 16% or better. Boiling may sound energy intensive -- but it is not in the methology I use. Pressure-Cooking -- or extraction by heated, pressurized, water. Operating at 20 Psi -- 228 F -- for 3 hours. The water does not boil. you insulate/jacket the pot -- very little heat required to maintain temperature. I use a bucket in a jacketed drum to get back most of my invested heat when I transfer pots. Mind you -- I have to look at all this from village perspective -- no tractors -- no other machineries -- everything by hand. If I was allowed a few pieces of equipment -- which I have designed -- but probably will never build -- I could really make this process fly!! Pressurized Soxhlet extraction tower (steam) would extract large batches of pulverized cane (more on that process below) automatically to the proper sugar in liquor densities required for optimum fermentation. True -- this would be boiling and condensing -- so energy hungry -- but I planned to use a small refrigeration cycle power plant to condense -- and thus extract electrical power. The fuel for this process would be the bagasse. You can get a rough idea at: http://www.sterlingsolar.com/engines.htm Though the device I have in mind to build would be more efficient and simpler. Even the heat in the hot pressurized liquor -- on exiting -- would be recovered in this manner. The internal pressure of this process would also look after pumping liquor to the fermentation tanks. Also -- heat transferring from the Soxhlet extraction process -- could easily power the distillation process when required -- with energy still being picked up by the refrigeration cycle motor when condensing the alcohols. This then would be a inclosed system of great efficiency in ethanol from cane processing. Pulverizing cane The Mennonites here have developed an interesting device to pulverize cane to mix with their animal feeds -- they mix this up to 18% (by weight) with their regular grains. It is a Honda 10 HP belt driving a shaft with a regular lawn mower blade attached to one end -- the pulley to the other. This blade extends past a wooden table platform to be enclosed by an appropriate sized truck tire. The bottom part of this tire -- extending to the bottom -- is cut out. A 2 in square hole is cut into the side wall even with the table top. Motor is started. Cane is pushed in a rapid manner through this hole -- cane is pulverized and extracted from bottom. A very productive system for a minimum of machine power. Sure beats chopping cane by machete to short lengths and then splitting by machete! And of course -- the spent products of fermentation make a wonderful feed supplement as well! I try to always design for top efficiency -- in any process. We are not so energy rich here as you folks -- but you certainly can't tell that by looking how Belizeans live -- for them it is nothing but more waste of energy -- year by year -- they have adopted the true North American life style. Burn it all up today -- because tomorrow we all die! You might catch a few real good hints in all the above -- good luck to you in applying it. Peter Singfield Belize / Central America At 08:42 PM 7/11/2001 +0900, you wrote: Hello Thomas to keith, peter... i read the journey to forever / mothernatures pages about stills carefully and remember 20 years ago there was a state funded trial in our village on still with cereals, potatoes etc nearby munich/ bavaria to power their agricultural engines... just my opinion: its input is too high regarding the possible output (efficiency low -except you succeed to use wood, fibres to gain alcohol...) This is a myth Thomas, please see below. Ethanol from cellulose still has some way to travel for truly efficient processes IMHO. Wood-Ethanol Report: Technology Review, Environment Canada 1999 -- good overview of the problem and the current solutions on offer. http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/wet/section16.html and you often use food as fuel!! Another myth, I'm afraid - below. to generate alcohol, suppose is viable only in regions wehere is huge surplus... sure woodgas is dirtier but more energy-efficient..., thomas -- der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \ the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm le petit eco - champignoneur allemand / http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#foodorfuel Food or Fuel? A common objection to biomass energy production is that it could divert agricultural production away from food crops in a hungry world -- even leading to mass starvation in the poor countries. True or not? Not true: at best it's an oversimplification
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 524
'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' wrote: - Biofuel at Journey to Forever: - http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html - Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. - To unsubscribe, send an email to: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - - There are 25 messages in this issue. - - Topics in this digest: - - 1. RE: New updates on wood (Lignocellulosic) ethanol -From: Hanns B. Wetzel ...' Take a look to the attachment. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 525
'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' wrote: - Biofuel at Journey to Forever: - http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html - Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. - To unsubscribe, send an email to: - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - - There are 6 messages in this issue. - - Topics in this digest: - - 1. Re: Re: cost -From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 2. me ...' Take a look to the attachment. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
