Re: [Biofuel] storing biodiesel in veggie oil 55g drums
Thanks for the great advice all! I will not worry about the trace amounts of oil this go-around. I like your idea Kieth of building a stand and making a lid from fiberglass. Today is my day off so I think I'll dust off the welder... Thanks, James On 4/11/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi James I recently scored 14 (!!!) 55g drums of new canola oil for free. Good score! :-) The pint/quart of canola left would add 0.23-0.46% triglycerides to 55 gallons of biodiesel. Even if your processing is good that's just enough to bump you out of the standards requirements. Bob and Todd are right, shrug it off and it won't wreck your motor. Since it's new canola you could regard it as a lubricity enhancer, not that biodiesel exactly needs a lubricity enhancer, but hey. But if you're finickety about the details (a Good Thing unless you get too anal about it and lose the picture) you can get most of it out without too much trouble with biodiesel, as Todd says. So they're closed-top drums, usually two bungs, one on each side, one bigger, they both fit standard plumbing fittings. We use oil drums to store biodiesel and WVO and stuff. There's a choice. Simplest is to stand them on the ground and use a pump to get the stuff out (getting it in in the first place is another matter). We've got a great pump for this, a hand pump that screws into the bigger bung and can be raised or lowered so the inlet is any distance you want above the bottom. It has a cast iron pump casing, a good crank, and really good pull, it'll handle the rough stuff in WVO, and it cost about US$45 equiv. Worth paying for if you're a biodieseler or SVOer. We use it for collecting WVO when there's an oil drum involved, but we don't use it with the storage tanks. Pumping quickly gets old when you have to do it too often no matter how you do it, and making and using biodiesel should have a low chore-level, IMHO. Gravity is better. Open-top drums with cinch-clamped lids are much rarer than closed-top drums with bungs, or they are here anyway. We do have some lids though and I made a couple out of glass-fibre, not difficult. Even if you could find a lid, you might find that a cinch-clamp lid from an open-top drum isn't the same size as your closed-top drums. Sigh. But you could mould a glass-fibre lid on the bottom of an upended drum. Or you could use a circular wooden board with plastic glued to the underside, held onto the drum by cinch-clamps, which is a good option for a processor but less convenient for a storage tank than a properly shaped lid. Cut the bottom of the drum out, the top with the two bungs will now be the bottom. Screw a standard 3/4 gate valve or ball valve into the smaller bung. You can weld a stand together from 1.5 steel angle, which you can often find in junkyards free for the taking. If you don't have a welder, bolt a stand together out of timber. Make a solid job of it, it has to be strong, a full oil drum will weigh 175 kg, 385 lb. Todd Swearingen advises making provision for spills, surely good advice. The stand looks like a four-sided cage. The cross-struts are outside the uprights (legs). The bottom of the drum rests evenly on the top of the stand with the uprights extending a couple of inches up the side of the drum to secure it. You can build the stand upside down on top of an upended drum, or at least fit it that way. The stand must be high enough with enough space between the legs so you can get a 20-litre bucket or a carboy in under the valve. Use lower cross-struts on the sides and the back, not in the front. Don't make the stand too high, that will make it more difficult to fill it. Put a small standpipe inside the drum in the small bung outlet, it only needs to be a couple of inches or so high. Maybe you'll want to have some of the drums on stands and the rest on the ground. HTH. Best Keith james demer wrote: I recently scored 14 (!!!) 55g drums of new canola oil for free. I am processing it into biodiesel and I'm running out of storage. Can I put biodiesel back into a 55g drum that housed new canola oil? I emptied the drums pretty well but there is still probably a pint to a quart of oil in the bottom of the drum. I'm just concerned that the oil will contaminate the bio-d. What do you smart people think? Thanks, James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey
[Biofuel] storing biodiesel in veggie oil 55g drums
I recently scored 14 (!!!) 55g drums of new canola oil for free. I am processing it into biodiesel and I'm running out of storage. Can I put biodiesel back into a 55g drum that housed new canola oil? I emptied the drums pretty well but there is still probably a pint to a quart of oil in the bottom of the drum. I'm just concerned that the oil will contaminate the bio-d. What do you smart people think? Thanks, James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] considering a purchase of a diesel home generator, input appreciated
My friend picked up a Listeroid lister (Indian made lister) 12hp and a 7.5kw generator. It cost him less than 2 grand new. It is great for a few reasons; it has a 24/7 duty cycle, it runs at 600 rpm (muffled properly it is quiet), it runs on veggie oil, and it looks cool. James Demer On 1/24/06, John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I built a similar one (gas not diesel). Picture: http://www.mullan.ca/images/gen_2a.jpg There is now a 1800W inverter bolted to the right side (not shown). The battery is not the sole storage device. I clamp on my battery pack deep cycles to this battery to charge them up and/or to support a heavier draw on the large inverter. Picture: http://www.mullan.ca/images/batt_out_small.jpg Comes with it's own connected inverters. This currently works for my needs, expanding as I can. John On 1/24/2006, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd check out homepower.com Especially their older articles (they've become much less techy over the years as the target audience has changed). For DC generators, check out backwoodssolar.com -- their kit uses a gas engine, but could easily be used with a small diesel engine too. I see the engines on ebay occasionally. Most of the inverters also allow you to use an AC generator to charge the batteries, but it is often more expensive for a diesel AC generator than a DC generator. On 1/24/06, Mark Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After some consideration, we are going to look at smaller system options. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] fryolator cleaner contamination?
Thanks All, It sounds like I need to find out how he is using this stuff, and how much is getting in the oil. JamesOn 1/4/06, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boil Out is what the product is generally called. It's a packet ofsodium hydroxide that is mixed with hot water and cycled throught thefryer. If placed in the same container as the veg oil it will tend to interact at the interface and create soap. If allowed to set with theoil too long it turns into a really nice mess.The cure is to separate the sodium hydroxide laden water from the oil,rinse the oil and/or treat it with phosphoric acid (qunatity can vary) to return the soaps to FFAs. This will increase the overall FFA percentin the feedstock, probably making it a candidate unsuitable for straightbase processing, leaving acid/base as the only viable alternative. Nasty stuff. Straight from Hades as far as biodieselers are generallyconcerned.Todd Swearingenjames demer wrote: Hi All, A local restaurant has offered to give me its used oil but the manager warned me that they clean the fryers with a cleaner. I think he he said it is sodium hydroxide (?). I'm not sure. My question to you all is, will a fryolator cleaner contaminate my oil and cause problems with my biodiesel? I intend to try a small batch before I commit to putting a container at his rest. and having him cut his current grease collector loose. Thanks, James ___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Intro / Question
Check out this news group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace/ It is all about heating w/ biod. and it is packed full of good info. james demer On 1/4/06, David Marquis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Doug, Nice to meet you and all of the other people on the list. Canada, huh... I am thinking that it is really cold, I guess depending on where you live. I have a friend that used to live in Montreal a couple of years ago and they had a real nasty streak of -35F...Brrr. Well I am thinking that I can get a oil fired furnace that can use BD and save a lot of money. Natural gas here in Minnesota is sky high!!! And that is with a really mild winter so far. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_heaters.html#homeheat. Ya I have read that and a lot of the site so far. I still need to drill down on some of the links though Great Info! There is a BD coop that will deliver waste oil for 1.00 a gallon, so I was hoping that I could get by with 150 gallons for the winter, maybe not, but it still is a not nearly what I am pay for a month now. So with a furnance that needs to go next year, I thought I would do some research and make the pludge along with a oil fired water heater as well. Other than the eating ruber thing, I wouldn't think there is much difference that regular home heating oil, but I might be wrong. Dave Please check out my new web page at http://www.japanish.org Just cut and paste into your web browser. __ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] fryolator cleaner contamination?
Hi All, A local restaurant has offered to give me its used oil but the manager warned me that they clean the fryers with a cleaner. I think he he said it is sodium hydroxide (?). I'm not sure. My question to you all is, will a fryolator cleaner contaminate my oil and cause problems with my biodiesel? I intend to try a small batch before I commit to putting a container at his rest. and having him cut his current grease collector loose. Thanks, James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] free book - Handbook of Soap Manufacture
WOW! Thanks Kirk. This is a really cool old book and I look forward to reading it. Thanks for posting. JamesOn 12/12/05, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://ia200030.eu.archive.org/1/texts/TheHandbookOfSoapManufacture/TheHandbookOfSoapManufacture.djvu If you don't have a Deja plugin for your browser you can get one (free) at lizardtech.com Mac and Windows are supported Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can this Batch be Saved?!
Thanks MikeOn 11/29/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my book that's more trouble than it's worth.I don't think you could cook out the water w/o evaporating all the Methanol. Your probably right. No offense, but I also have an 8 year old and biodiesel making isprobably not the safest activity for her to be around. True. She actually was in the house with my friends wife. I have made a blender batch with her, and for that she wore gloves, goggles and a smock. I'd think about neutralizing the batch to PH 7 and safely disposing of it. Good luck, Mike Thats what we'll do! I love this group!!! James james demer wrote: Hi All, Boy did I screw up a 240 liter batch of biodiesel. The wvo titrated out to 4.5 g lye, so my methoxide mix was 1760grams (4.5 +3.5=8g x 220) lye and 44 liters of methanol. I made the batch using the simple process. mistake #1- I'm almost positive there was a small amount of water in my methoxide tank. I also put the lye in first, before the methanol. mistake #2- when I dumped the methoxide into the vat with the wvo (wvo was about 100 deg. f) I noticed too late that not all of the lye had dissolved (5% left in container). I think it was because the temp in my garage was about 35 deg f , and my pump system needs tweaking. mistake#3- My 8 year old daughter was with me and her attention span was up! My friend that was helping (its actually his garage) stayed to monitor the reaction so I could get my girl home. What I was left with is a bunch of white curd looking stuff (lye/soap) on the top. I scooped a bunch of it out and put it in a 5 gallon bucket. I got to what looked like good fuel and put it ina jar. 12 hrs later it developed the white stuff. I tried to wash some and it will not seperate. It doesnt turn into mayo when agitated, it just does not seperate from the water. I re-processed 1 liter with 3.5g lye and 100ml methanol, and it looks the same as the original batch- white curd like (on the bottom now). Itook a small sample of the re-processed batch and tried adding water- no seperation.Just for kicks I put some malt vinegar (all I had at home - no ph tester at my house either, but I have one at my disposal) in a little bit of the reprocessed bio-mess and i made the white stuff dissappear! some dark sediment formed on the bottom- it didnt quite look like glycerine. I tried washing a little of that and it STILL wont seperate. OK, I know I seriously f*%# \'d up. I WILL change my ways. can THIS batch be saved? I want to burn it in my furnace, not a car if that matters. Thanks All, James Demer in Falmouth, Maine USA ___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Can this Batch be Saved?!
Hi All, Boy did I screw up a 240 liter batch of biodiesel. The wvo titrated out to 4.5 g lye, so my methoxide mix was 1760grams (4.5 +3.5=8g x 220) lye and 44 liters of methanol. I made the batch using the simple process. mistake #1- I'm almost positive there was a small amount of water in my methoxide tank. I also put the lye in first, before the methanol. mistake #2- when I dumped the methoxide into the vat with the wvo (wvo was about 100 deg. f) I noticed too late that not all of the lye had dissolved (5% left in container). I think it was because the temp in my garage was about 35 deg f , and my pump system needs tweaking. mistake#3- My 8 year old daughter was with me and her attention span was up! My friend that was helping (its actually his garage) stayed to monitor the reaction so I could get my girl home. What I was left with is a bunch of white curd looking stuff (lye/soap) on the top. I scooped a bunch of it out and put it in a 5 gallon bucket. I got to what looked like good fuel and put it in a jar. 12 hrs later it developed the white stuff. I tried to wash some and it will not seperate. It doesnt turn into mayo when agitated, it just does not seperate from the water. I re-processed 1 liter with 3.5g lye and 100ml methanol, and it looks the same as the original batch- white curd like (on the bottom now). I took a small sample of the re-processed batch and tried adding water- no seperation. Just for kicks I put some malt vinegar (all I had at home - no ph tester at my house either, but I have one at my disposal) in a little bit of the reprocessed bio-mess and i made the white stuff dissappear! some dark sediment formed on the bottom- it didnt quite look like glycerine. I tried washing a little of that and it STILL wont seperate. OK, I know I seriously f*%# \'d up. I WILL change my ways. can THIS batch be saved? I want to burn it in my furnace, not a car if that matters. Thanks All, James Demer in Falmouth, Maine USA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
