Re: [Biofuel] Ant invasions
Hi Chris hi, keith, this is SO true! Keith wrote: . . .Corporate bottom-lines aside, whatever would be the point of growing biofuels crops by industrialised methods that are heavily dependent on fossil-fuel inputs, when it's fossil fuels they're supposed to be replacing? It makes no sense. . . . And yet people swallow it whole without a thought. thanks for the encouraging reply! It was an encouraging post to reply to. :-) Best wishes Keith best, -chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/
Re: [Biofuel] Ant invasions
hello again to everybody. i'm new to this list, so i had no idea this would develop into a full-blown discussion of ipm and plant health care. glad to see that interesting threads which aren't strictly about fuels are allowed. but getting back to the discussion, robert, the more i read of this thread, the more it sounds like you're handling the situation pretty well. but perhaps there's a flaw in your approach with the aphids. i take it you're using your soap spray in a very low solution, more as a repellant than as an insecticidal? it's just possible that this will have more effect on the ladybugs, than on the aphids. aphids are suckers, feeding off the *interior* of the leaf. i doubt the soap is making their dinner any less palatable. on the contrary, as they get sprayed, the soap on their bodies probably makes them less desirable to the ladybugs. if used in a higher concentration, the soap will have more of a smothering effect as it breaks down the surface tension of the water, so the aphids will effectively drown. as i mentioned before, horticultural oil, in approximately a 2% solution, will also smother. in order to limit the impact on other insects, you can always try using a plant mister or bottle sprayer. with either, you would set the spray to the extreme end of the mist setting (i.e. all the way to the left on your typical nozzle). this would allow you to be more discriminating about applying to only one side of the leaves (particularly with a smaller tree). though it would, obviously, be more time consuming than simply showering the canopy. i share your aversion to killing, but regrettably the green/tree care industry cares little about organic or holistic non-chemical approaches, so i'm not very familiar with repellant techniques. this thread alone has been quite informative in that regard. of course there's also the tedious mechanical approach: pinch off all the infested leaves, bag them, and dump the bags out in the woods, or a field, or somewhere sufficiently distant from your garden. in any case, this may all be academic if you think you may have blown it a bit out of proportion. trees *will* tolerate a certain amount of infestation. it's when you can see that it's reaching a point where it affects the tree's health, that you should consider taking measures. as has already been said in a number of postings, if the tree is healthy the disease/infestation will run its course and the tree will bounce back; especially if it is receiving good care. it's generally the unhealthy tree that will be killed or crippled by these afflictions. meanwhile, i like some of the other things you mentioned. weed control from bark mulch is always iffy, since who knows how much seed got mixed in with the mulch. but mulch does have great long-term benefits as it breaks down and adds organic matter to the soil. moisture retention is another important benefit. and the barn waste, i always encourage thinking locally--look at what's in front of you that you can use, before resorting to retail or mail-order or exotic stuff like seaweed. heavy clay soil? well, it goes without saying that it is *not* a tree-friendly substrate. building up a topsoil layer will help a great deal, but you're still going to have to make sure your trees are getting sufficient water. aeration and healthy root growth is another issue with clay. one posting mentioned drilling holes as a way of applying a nutrient solution. well, just drilling the holes will itself have a great impact. try drilling 2 holes about 18 deep, in the area extending inward from the outer edge of the root zone (basically the same as the outer edge of the canopy) to about 2' to 3' from the trunk. space the holes 1' to 3' apart. in the case of your trees, which are small and in the clay, i would lean toward the 1' spacing, and bring the holes as close as 2' from the trunk. if you can't find an auger as large 2, get the largest one you can, and don't go smaller than 1. this is called 'vertical mulching', an important cultural practice which is often overlooked. you can fill the holes if you like with porous materials (e.g. gravel, sand, perlite, peat moss, compost, mulch, etc.), but don't pack them. you can also fill them with supplements like the seaweed previously mentioned, or soil additives that will help loosen the clay, adjust the pH, etc. i think i would use a mix of 2 parts nutrients (high organic matter content), 1 part soil looseners/conditioners, and 1 part mycorrhizae ( make sure it's a myco blend appropriate to your plants). anyway, hope i wasn't too long-winded. best of luck with your garden. i'd love to hear it turns out. -chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Ant invasions
what to do about jap bettels in grapvines? the traps braing in more. Is there anything else I can try? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/
Re: [Biofuel] Ant invasions
Hi Bob, Robert Best pesticide against strawberry aphids (Lawrence D. Hills). Did you say those were strawberry trees you had, Robert? LOL! But I guess their cousins won't like it much either. Hmmm. . . Around here strawberries grow close to the ground, without woody stems. Like derris (rotenone), pyrethrum is safe to warm-blooded creatures, but both kill ladybirds. Derris is less deadly to ladybirds, it kills their larvae, not the adults. Derris stays toxic for up to 48 hours, pyrethrum for only 12 hours. I mentioned earlier that I really don't want to poison the aphids and beetle pests because the toxins can kill the predatory insects and arachnids, too. Some of the insecticides sold at the local nursery are lethal to many things, and worse, persistent in the environment. Most people on this list would agree that food grown from healthy plants is far better for human consumption than food grown on plants sprayed with all manner of industrial strength pesticides. Maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of the problem than I should. My boys and I went around the area putting door hangers on residences to advertise for my business (which isn't going as well as I would like), so I got a good look at a lot of other people's property. Many neighbors were busy spraying their trees and lawns. In a common area near a local convenience store, I inspected a large and healthy pear tree that also supported caterpillars and aphids. Two of my trees seem to have a problem, but both are in better shape than they were last year. I wish I could post photos somewhere so the list could see what I'm dealing with. The ants probably don't need any controlling. They're just herdsmen after all, they won't take the aphid herds where there's no grazing, such as a healthy tree. I don't consider ants a problem. I simply noticed that they were climbing my trees. For caterpillars, try Bacillus thuringiensis. You can also buy predator wasps (larvae, I think). I think they're very small wasps (I've never used them). We have quite a few wasps around here, and I've noticed that they feed on beetles and aphids. Right now my trees are small enough that I can bend their branches down and inspect their leaves carefully. I capture or kill any caterpillar I find. (I hate killing!) My youngest son wanted to keep one for observation, so I let him put one in a jar and filled it with diseased leaves I'd clipped from my apple tree. Since you're near the sea, I read about an orchardist who used seawater with vivid effect as a tonic for trees, or rather for their roots and the soil. Like seaweed extract, it contains all the mineral nutrients. You'd think the salt would cause problems, sodium chloride, but sodium is also a soil nutrient, like potassium in some ways (cations), and both have an upper limit beyond which it's unwise to proceed, the limit for potassium isn't much higher than for sodium. Interesting! We're about an hour away from the ocean. Getting the sea water all the way up here would be a challenge, though. I own a small truck, but I'd have to find some kind of bladder to fill, coupled with a pump of some sort. Hmmm . . . (And I'll definitely NEED the supercharger to get up the hill!) This orchardist drilled a series of 1 holes in the soil a couple of feet apart and maybe 12 deep, round the edge of the leaf-fall area, filled them with seawater, and that was it. Try to drill the holes rather than hammer a pole in or something, the soil round the holes won't absorb the stuff very well if the side are squatched flat, especially not if it's clay. Much of our property is covered in heavy clay, just a shovel or two below the surface. The area where our vegetable garden grows probably has 10 - 15 cm of actual topsoil now, and that soil is literally crawling with life. On the western side of our house we have many young trees, a grape vine, two currant bushes and other flowering plants. The soil there is very poor. We have the area covered in cedar bark mulch as a weed control measure. (Ha! That's a REAL joke!) I dug in a large quantity of barn litter around the trees last fall, because you told me that trees take up their nutrients in the autumn. This year, we've had much more vigorous leaf production and trees like my cherry, which I didn't think would make it through the summer, have come back very strong. I'm learning that gardening and orcharding takes time. I'm learning a lot. One of the most important lessons involves patience. I haven't tried this either, yet, I've used seaweed extract instead, but it makes sense to me and I've been thinking of doing it here, or rather using both: seaweed extract in the compost in the first place, watered under the tree and sprayed on the leaves too, and seawater injections round the edge. I'd rather try this than spray poison! Hey Bob, let's club together
