Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? *#
Dear Walker, While the response from Wendell is true: It takes more energy to make the Brown's Gas than the Brown's Gas contains, there are other factors to consider. In some engines the addition of Brown's Gas enhances the combustion process, producing usable energy by reducing the inefficiencies in the pre-exisisting engine. The difference can result in an increase in mileage or in combustion characteristics, such as knock. Some engines do not generally benefit from Brown's Gas, such as late model Ford Truck diesels. Some benefit greatly, an example being an older Mercedes diesel. With gasoline engines it is important to make sure that the Brown's Gas does not confuse the oxygen sensor and combustion control computer. When experimenting with Brown's Gas, always keep safety in mind. There can be a fire hazard with some designs - or any unit that is abused. Most, but not all, BG generators used highly caustic chemicals to facilitate electrolysis. A Brown's Gas generator must put out enough liters per minute to be useful. It should be safely constructed and made of high quality materials . Any useful Brown's Gas generator will put a strain on your alternator ( up to 60 amps draw for some BG generators). Make sure you have a large alternator or a separate alternator and a way to control the process from the dash. BG generators require constant inspection, maintenance and testing. Better units make this almost as easy as checking your oil. Other units need to be inspected every day. YouTube.com has lots of videos on this subject and there are many fine site on the internet with detailed information. Note: Some units only utilize the hydrogen or oxygen component of electrolysis in the combustion process. Some back yard mechanics will combine both a BG generator and a water mist injector on an engine project. Always wear safety glasses when working with BG! Good Luck, Janet - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? *# Dear Walker, Unfortunately, all electrolysis devices in automobiles share the same fault. They draw their power from the battery. The power creates hydrogen and oxygen or Brown's Gas which is injected with the gasoline/air mixture and burns just fine. However, the alternator draws its energy from the engine. When it is called upon to charge the battery, it draws more energy from the engine than the Brown's Gas produces. Therefore, the gas mileage actually decreases. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen Regards, Wendell From: Walker Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/27 Fri PM 05:02:17 EDT To: biofuel biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? Is anyone familiar with the Brown's Gas (HHO) Injector for automobiles? The technology sounds simple and the web sites rave about them. Supposedly improves gas mileage by 25 mpg. Walker Sedona, Az In The Beginning - ISBN: 1-4116-3848-4 Just In Time - ISBN 1-4116-3851-4 Ad Astra - ISBN: 978-1847285188 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080627/3cd29426/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? *#
Hello Walker, You've got a couple of good responses so far, so I'll just add a few other points. There are all sorts of electrolysers available on the net. All of varying quality and effectiveness. When you see ads such as run your car on water, don't believe it but it has been known for over 60 years that a small amount of hydrogen added to the air intake manifold will improve combustion and possibly get better mileage. It also seems to clean out carbon deposits, so that in itself is a good thing. Results will vary widely depending on condition, age and tuning of the vehicle. Some vehicles oxygen sensors can be confused but if the air is heated before entering the sensors don't know the difference. Pulse width modulated systems with correctly designed electrodes can output liters per minute without causing too much strain on the alternator but running a unit on an extra alternator is a good idea. I have built several units over the years and used them on 2 3/4 ton chevy vans with good results as well as an aerostar minivan with favorable results. I would do some more research and make your own unit. Don't buy one. You can find tons of videos on this and many alternative energy+green tech videos here http://www.alternate-energy.net/vidpicks08.html regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: Janet Van Stoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? *# Sent: 28 Jun '08 16:16 Dear Walker, While the response from Wendell is true: It takes more energy to make the Brown's Gas than the Brown's Gas contains, there are other factors to consider. In some engines the addition of Brown's Gas enhances the combustion process, producing usable energy by reducing the inefficiencies in the pre-exisisting engine. The difference can result in an increase in mileage or in combustion characteristics, such as knock. Some engines do not generally benefit from Brown's Gas, such as late model Ford Truck diesels. Some benefit greatly, an example being an older Mercedes diesel. With gasoline engines it is important to make sure that the Brown's Gas does not confuse the oxygen sensor and combustion control computer. When experimenting with Brown's Gas, always keep safety in mind. There can be a fire hazard with some designs - or any unit that is abused. Most, but not all, BG generators used highly caustic chemicals to facilitate electrolysis. A Brown's Gas generator must put out enough liters per minute to be useful. It should be safely constructed and made of high quality materials . Any useful Brown's Gas generator will put a strain on your alternator ( up to 60 amps draw for some BG generators). Make sure you have a large alternator or a separate alternator and a way to control the process from the dash. BG generators require constant inspection, maintenance and testing. Better units make this almost as easy as checking your oil. Other units need to be inspected every day. YouTube.com has lots of videos on this subject and there are many fine site on the internet with detailed information. Note: Some units only utilize the hydrogen or oxygen component of electrolysis in the combustion process. Some back yard mechanics will combine both a BG generator and a water mist injector on an engine project. Always wear safety glasses when working with BG! Good Luck, Janet - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? *# Dear Walker, Unfortunately, all electrolysis devices in automobiles share the same fault. They draw their power from the battery. The power creates hydrogen and oxygen or Brown's Gas which is injected with the gasoline/air mixture and burns just fine. However, the alternator draws its energy from the engine. When it is called upon to charge the battery, it draws more energy from the engine than the Brown's Gas produces. Therefore, the gas mileage actually decreases. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen Regards, Wendell From: Walker Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/27 Fri PM 05:02:17 EDT To: biofuel biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? Is anyone familiar with the Brown's Gas (HHO) Injector for automobiles? The technology sounds simple and the web sites rave about them. Supposedly improves gas mileage by 25 mpg. Walker Sedona, Az In The Beginning - ISBN: 1-4116-3848-4 Just In Time - ISBN 1-4116-3851-4 Ad Astra - ISBN: 978-1847285188 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail
Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? *#
While the response from Wendell is true: It takes more energy to make the Brown's Gas than the Brown's Gas contains, there are other factors to consider. In some engines the addition of Brown's Gas enhances the combustion process, producing usable energy by reducing the inefficiencies in the pre-exisisting engine. The difference can result in an increase in mileage or in combustion characteristics, such as knock. Any externally mixed internal combustion engine can have its combustion efficiency improved by the addition of hydrogen into the air / fuel mix. However, the degree to which that improvement occurs is generally on the order of less than 10%. Adding H2 into the intake stream tends to INCREASE the propensity toward knock because hydrogen's flammability limits are so wide. Some engines do not generally benefit from Brown's Gas, such as late model Ford Truck diesels. Some benefit greatly, an example being an older Mercedes diesel. Interesting statement. Can you please elaborate? With gasoline engines it is important to make sure that the Brown's Gas does not confuse the oxygen sensor and combustion control computer. The addition of extra oxygen will be detected in the exhaust gases. The onboard computer will address the lean condition by lengthening the injection pulse. So, how would you address this problem on a factory computer? When experimenting with Brown's Gas, always keep safety in mind. There can be a fire hazard with some designs - or any unit that is abused. Most, but not all, BG generators used highly caustic chemicals to facilitate electrolysis. This is true of ANY application involving hydrogen. Brown's Gas isn't really a gas--it's just hydrogen and oxygen let loose in the intake tract. Hydrogen boost is a well-studied process that goes all the way back to geniuses like Sir Harry Ricardo. If you read HIS work, you'll have a far better grasp of what's really going on than you'll ever develop paying attention to the nonsense of charlatans like Yull Brown. A Brown's Gas generator must put out enough liters per minute to be useful. Let's be clear: A Brown's Gas Generator is nothing more than an electrolyzer without gas separators. (That, in and of itself, should raise the hackles of anyone who has actually built electrolyzers. Hydrogen combusts VERY easily. It's wisest, from a safety perspective, to keep hydrogen away from oxygen until it's actually being burned.) Output is a function of current density. Under most conditions electrolysis is exothermic because at thermoneutral voltage (just under 2 volts) production is pretty pathetic. It should be safely constructed and made of high quality materials . Any useful Brown's Gas generator will put a strain on your alternator ( up to 60 amps draw for some BG generators). Make sure you have a large alternator or a separate alternator and a way to control the process from the dash. This will induce additional load onto the engine, resulting in LESS efficiency. robert luis rabello -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080628/f4d4c5a0/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector?
Is anyone familiar with the Brown's Gas (HHO) Injector for automobiles? The technology sounds simple and the web sites rave about them. Supposedly improves gas mileage by 25 mpg. Walker Sedona, Az In The Beginning - ISBN: 1-4116-3848-4 Just In Time - ISBN 1-4116-3851-4 Ad Astra - ISBN: 978-1847285188 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080627/3cd29426/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector?
Walker Bennett wrote: Is anyone familiar with the Brown's Gas (HHO) Injector for automobiles? The technology sounds simple and the web sites rave about them. Supposedly improves gas mileage by 25 mpg. Any type of hydrogen boost will have a modest increase in fuel economy. The Brown's Gas nonsense, however, is mostly nonsense. Hang on to your wallet. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? *#
Dear Walker, Unfortunately, all electrolysis devices in automobiles share the same fault. They draw their power from the battery. The power creates hydrogen and oxygen or Brown's Gas which is injected with the gasoline/air mixture and burns just fine. However, the alternator draws its energy from the engine. When it is called upon to charge the battery, it draws more energy from the engine than the Brown's Gas produces. Therefore, the gas mileage actually decreases. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen Regards, Wendell From: Walker Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/06/27 Fri PM 05:02:17 EDT To: biofuel biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Anybody familiar with a Brown's Gas Injector? Is anyone familiar with the Brown's Gas (HHO) Injector for automobiles? The technology sounds simple and the web sites rave about them. Supposedly improves gas mileage by 25 mpg. Walker Sedona, Az In The Beginning - ISBN: 1-4116-3848-4 Just In Time - ISBN 1-4116-3851-4 Ad Astra - ISBN: 978-1847285188 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080627/3cd29426/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
