Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
I'm so glad this has come up again As I have another beaut joke and seeing as my last one went down so well Here it is And then there was the dyslexic devil worshipper He sold his soul to Santa Boom Boom Have fun Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think so. Alot of the native american rituals involved self mutilation in various forms, and I suspect they are similar or older or origin to Judaism. And the emphasis on guilt from some christian sects (Catholicism comes to mind) could also be described as mental self mutilation, so I'm not sure that Judaism as any particular claim to that. On 11/23/06, Alon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi zeke little check up on reality pleas... Isn't judaism the first religion of self mutilation. mutilation that could generate hidden and un hidden hostilities within a person or a state? Alon. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Hi zeke little check up on reality pleas... Isn't judaism the first religion of self mutilation. mutilation that could generate hidden and un hidden hostilities within a person or a state? Alon. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
I don't think so. Alot of the native american rituals involved self mutilation in various forms, and I suspect they are similar or older or origin to Judaism. And the emphasis on guilt from some christian sects (Catholicism comes to mind) could also be described as mental self mutilation, so I'm not sure that Judaism as any particular claim to that. On 11/23/06, Alon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi zeke little check up on reality pleas... Isn't judaism the first religion of self mutilation. mutilation that could generate hidden and un hidden hostilities within a person or a state? Alon. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Dear group And strong believers, to my humble point of view, the most amusing approach to resolve, the conflict between the two large religions the hopefull christianity, and rather extreme Islam, also, to gain some more serene approach towards life here - one must refer to the sorce of these religions, or at list two steps back in the riligion dynasty, to the hebrew bibel - or king james version any way.. and I quote from the book of genesis: (2:15) And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. now am I dreaming?! - or is this a kind of a biblical way of saying that man is here mainly to 'dress gods salat?' - before criticising me for this most imaginative perspective, bear in mind pleas, that untill after the flood when noah came out of his ark, man was forbidden to eat meat and solely fed on the 'froot and grass of the earth' - also bear in mined, that there is a lot of description of vegeterian food sources that where in the garden of Eden as well. So in conclusion - I can say surely, that a man, how take his role, in this world, to heavily, may ponder upon this verse, and gain a rather, more, sound perspective, on existentialism. yours, Alon. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
leo bunyan wrote: Yeah Joe I understand where you are coming from But unfortunately that wouldn't make us any better than them. No Leo I think you misunderstood. I was not the one advocating using force to make religions accountable. That was sarcasm at your suggestion of doing so. It is hard to bring these religions to accountability. I find the notion of doing so to be just another form of narrow minded intolerance. On who's authority? I don't waste much time on god and religion but when a jw or morman come knocking on my door, interrupting my Saturday morning hangover, instead of politely turning them away I start to question their church's stance on global warming and the invasion of Iraq. That usually sends them packing as they realise that the ethics of their belief are being questioned, that to me is bringing these religions to accountability and in a passive way. Well that's a little different than the way it came across in your post when you said It is time to stop the charade and make these religions answerable to what they stand for. If it can be done in a passive way by appealing to people to examine themselves and examine their beliefs then I agree completely. By the way, if the reasons that Bush invaded Iraq was for WMD (weapons of mass destruction) and ITNOG (in the name of god) and no WMD's have been found does Bush have to produce proof that he had permission from god to invade. Be good to hear it from god's mouth. Leo Lol yes I think we need some proof! Joe */Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Yeah lets 'roll up our sleves and FORCE them religions to be accountable to their tenets' LOL! classic. So are you preaching peace then Leo? Joe leo bunyan wrote: The amount of killing and wars had in the name of god be it alah god buddah etc does not reflect any of the love and peace that these religons preach.It is time to stop the charade and make these religions answerable to what they stand for Leo */MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, Yes. I then stated, Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
The amount of killing and wars had in the name of god be it alah god buddah etcdoes not reflect any of the love and peace that these religons preach.It is time to stop the charade and make these religions answerable to what they stand forLeoMK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Dear Rick,Greetings!! Its pity to read the article you have listed and by all means should it be true, i pity the knowledge of the Imam who could address your questions.The theory of evolution has been change and refinement to best suit the present time which was happening naturally and so are religions, if we look at all the religions - mind you - Catholics, Protestants andIslam are not the only religions on earth - every religions roots back to a certain time and phase theworld was in - an at that point of time Allah! (The Almighty) had sent certain teaching and every humans becamewise and cleverer to abstain the teaching a new refinedteachings (which took form as religions) came in. Why "Quran" isconsidered the last teachingof the Almighty because it is fault less / pure by its grammar - research has proven that this is a composition beyond human intelligence,then whoframed it? None other than the Almighty. It is1500 now and you will find everything subject in detailed touched upon including womens emancipation, it is thewhole bunch of fools whomisinterpret the "Quran (the Recitation)"Jesus - peace be upon him, is the messenger of Allah like prophet Mohammed - peace be upon him, we respect him andMuslims don't pray him, there is this difference. Christians haveelevated Jesus to a status which is not correct, he was apure human being who lived once on earthlike you and me but the Chosen One.Let us not ridicule any religion or refer to one persons statement to the entire religion without even understanding the essence.Rick, coming to your question on Jihad -a word which has suddenly become infamous - the context ofJihad during prophet Muhammad's - peace be upon him, timewas different -and should notbe related to thepresent time.To end - Islam is the last religion of the perfect religions which had been bestowed upon themankindthrough so many prophets of which Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmail, Noah, Moses, Jesus,Buddha (somescholars interprethis name is mentioned in Quran as a prophet with a code) and Muhhmad - peace be upon all of them. These were from the recent past, before that there isthis wonderful religion called Hinduism - for which dates are not there but very very old.Abdul Rahman Ilyas Hyderabad, Indiarichard tandiono supardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm?I believewhat that Imamsaid does not represent the trueMuslim religion. I lived ina country where the majority are muslim so I met many believers. I never studiedMuslim personally; I was in Catholic school for 6 years and Protestan for another 6 years. Imo, Roman Catolic, Protestan, Muslim are pretty much the same. The major difference is how they achieve their final targets. The moral teachings are the same. "Do not do to others whatwe dont want to do to ourselves" ---All 4 religions that I know also have this passage but in their own versions. About theholy jihad... it's the same asthe Crusadesof medieval times. It's ironic thatreligions, whichare created to bring salvation, compassion to humanity, actually createswars.Religion's fault? I dont think so. We cannot judge a religion based on what some of the believers did. It's the same as everything, religion is just a guide; the actions, theinterpretations, all depends on the people themselves. Lesson to learn here: We need to be very careful when studying religion,dont be arrogant,dont be conceited, and think the deep meanings inside the teachings, not just memorizing word by words (We are much better than computer).Then we could conclude,practice them in our life andreduce the possibilities of misinterpretation/misleading. Bottomline, eliminate the word "I". Note: Sry for my poor english.. _. Hope it's still readable. Thanks. Richard From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:11:07 -0600Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree- Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
This message reminds me of one of my favorite sayings. "Religion is the root of all evil" sad Joe MK DuPree wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had theimpression thatjihad is supposed to bea method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Versio
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, Yes. I then stated, Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven! The Imam was speechless. I continued, I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Yeah lets 'roll up our sleves and FORCE them religions to be accountable to their tenets' LOL! classic. So are you preaching peace then Leo? Joe leo bunyan wrote: The amount of killing and wars had in the name of god be it alah god buddah etc does not reflect any of the love and peace that these religons preach.It is time to stop the charade and make these religions answerable to what they stand for Leo MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Hey Bobby; If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already at least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual passage for us then? Just a suggestion. Joe Bobby Clark wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the "Sword Passage" that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" T
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
On 11/15/06, Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any ofthe Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage thatpromotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence.Is Islam a religion of violence, or is the violence related to the fact that a large portion of the world's islam population is in opressed third world countries where there is little hope of changing their government (or the US government) that is opressing them and people turn to religion instead, in this case Islam, picking and choosing the portions of it that help them resist their opression, which are often the violent portions. My impression of christianity is that it is a particularly violent religion as well. At least the way many so called christians choose to practice it. I have had christians tell me how good GWB is and how they know he's a good born again christian. So either they're wrong, or christianity too has a place for extreme violence as well. And, how about all of the family values preachers who quote bible passages that are then used to support beating gay people to death. Or the KKK who purport to be following good christian teachings too. I always thought that Jesus preached tolerance and forgiveness, but this doesn't seem to be too in vogue in many christians. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
One problem with this is how the particular interpretation of the Koran is done. By choosing different words, a certain passage could be made to appear more or less violent. And since I don't read the original arabic? it was written in, even trying to read the actual passage is subject to a certain level of interpretation out of our control. In a religous history class (taught by a jesuit priest) I learned that the original aramaic story about the virgin mary, used a different word that merely meant a young unmarried woman, not a virgin. Yet, a large part of the theology of Jesus is built around this mistranlation... On 11/15/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Bobby; If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already at least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual passage for us then? Just a suggestion. Joe Bobby Clark wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though.As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it.Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap.JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PMSubject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the IslamicImam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that mostImams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, withouthesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to killeveryone who is not of your faith so they can have
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
The Bible is full of tales of violence. Islam is basically wherethe Christian world was a century ago re the rights of women etc. so we shoulnt be toffee nosed and oh so righteous. Help your brother and sister to achieve more enlightenment and stop throwing stones when you live in a glass house.KirkZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On 11/15/06, Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any ofthe Koran. There is a particular passage known as the "Sword Passage" thatpromotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. Is Islam a religion of violence, or is the violence related to the fact that a large portion of the world's islam population is in opressed third world countries where there is little hope of changing their government (or the US government) that is opressing them and people turn to religion instead, in this case Islam, picking and choosing the portions of it that help them resist their opression, which are often the violent portions. My impression of christianity is that it is a particularly violent religion as well. At least the way many so called christians choose to practice it. I have had christians tell me how good GWB is and how they know he's a good born again christian. So either they're wrong, or christianity too has a place for extreme violence as well. And, how about all of the "family values" preachers who quote bible passages that are then used to support beating gay people to death. Or the KKK who purport to be following good christian teachings too. I always thought that Jesus preached tolerance and forgiveness, but this doesn't seem to be too in vogue in many christians. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Sponsored LinkMortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new house payment___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
I have read the Koran and tried to understand it, but without help from a Muslim person. Interpretation is always terribly important, yet those who interpret are human. Stratification of civilization has included holy men who had a private thing going with (whichever) God. Those who didn't have the private thing going, who were farming and supporting the upper classes, relied on these massive brains for their sense of security and meaning in their hard lives. Religion has been blamed for war. Religion has been misused in every way since the beginning of human history. People who are scared and vulnerable are the tools of those who might not be virtuous. Yet there are virtuous religious people. The letter that started this thread sounded so triumphant: would you rather a god who asked you to kill or one who asked you to accept and love? It's just so much more complicated than this bit of raving. My two cents. Jesse --- Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/15/06, Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. Is Islam a religion of violence, or is the violence related to the fact that a large portion of the world's islam population is in opressed third world countries where there is little hope of changing their government (or the US government) that is opressing them and people turn to religion instead, in this case Islam, picking and choosing the portions of it that help them resist their opression, which are often the violent portions. My impression of christianity is that it is a particularly violent religion as well. At least the way many so called christians choose to practice it. I have had christians tell me how good GWB is and how they know he's a good born again christian. So either they're wrong, or christianity too has a place for extreme violence as well. And, how about all of the family values preachers who quote bible passages that are then used to support beating gay people to death. Or the KKK who purport to be following good christian teachings too. I always thought that Jesus preached tolerance and forgiveness, but this doesn't seem to be too in vogue in many christians. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Nice viewpoint Kirk; I would also like to suggest we take a look at the subject line and think on it for more than half a second. Within the framework of a question there is the fact that depending on how it is framed it presuposes a subset of possible answers and rules out alternatives. I would prefer if the question went something like Religion or Spirtuality? rather than Allah or Jesus? Isn't it more interesting and useful to ask how we can manifest the best that our human potential will allow? Isn't that what the founders of all the religions were trying to offer to the people? Getting mired down in dogma is just losing sight of the forest for the trees. Spiritual messages can only be elucidated in the terms and symbols of the language of their time. All of these saints and prophets wished to offer a spiritual treasure to the people of this world but those who followed mistook the chaff for the grain. If we like we can choose to walk a certain path but if we do we should remember that it is a path leading to a certain city. Or we can decide not to take any particular path but rather fly directly to the city itself. While in the holding pattern above the city we could look down and notice that there are many roads leading into the city. Along the roads there are a lot of people losing their way and dealing with the challenges of the journey. Many are lost. Some do not even know they are on the path. But it is hoped that they will get their bearings at some point along the way. For those who cannot fly, the path can help keep them straying too far or going backwards. I like this image and I think that this metaphor describes the vision of the founders of the different faiths. I think they knew that for most of us it is too difficult to make it without a few guideposts along the way. Too bad we have ended up in shouting matches with each claiming they are the ones on the real TRUE path to the city. Joe Kirk McLoren wrote: The Bible is full of tales of violence. Islam is basically wherethe Christian world was a century ago re the rights of women etc. so we shoulnt be toffee nosed and oh so righteous. Help your brother and sister to achieve more enlightenment and stop throwing stones when you live in a glass house. Kirk */Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On 11/15/06, *Bobby Clark* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. Is Islam a religion of violence, or is the violence related to the fact that a large portion of the world's islam population is in opressed third world countries where there is little hope of changing their government (or the US government) that is opressing them and people turn to religion instead, in this case Islam, picking and choosing the portions of it that help them resist their opression, which are often the violent portions. My impression of christianity is that it is a particularly violent religion as well. At least the way many so called christians choose to practice it. I have had christians tell me how good GWB is and how they know he's a good born again christian. So either they're wrong, or christianity too has a place for extreme violence as well. And, how about all of the family values preachers who quote bible passages that are then used to support beating gay people to death. Or the KKK who purport to be following good christian teachings too. I always thought that Jesus preached tolerance and forgiveness, but this doesn't seem to be too in vogue in many christians. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new house payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9132-16414moid=4116 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
On 11/15/06, Jesse Frayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip People who are scared and vulnerable are the tools of those who might not be virtuous. Yet there are virtuous religious people. snip Personally, I think this statement covers the discussions very accurately. In general, people are fearful of things they don't understand. Distortions are easily accepted when they help to explain any given situation. And unfortunately, evangelical religions are, by nature, meant to maintain and increase their flocks. Frankly, any cleric that uses fear to keep his or her students in line is absolutely disgusting. However, I'm surprised by the shear number of Christians that are easily duped by the fear mongering. I would think that any knowledgeable, devout Christian would take the courageous example set by Jesus and cast off the scare tactics. Not to single out Christianity but, its the only religion that I know well enough to even consider discussing. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Joe, I will be happy to do that as well. I just thought you might not want to here it from a layperson like me, but people who would have more influence, carry more clout, if you will on the subject. I will include this with the articles. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:39:45 -0500 Hey Bobby; If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already at least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual passage for us then? Just a suggestion. Joe Bobby Clark wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
I can tell now from the responses I hae seen that I should not get involved with this discussion because it seems most people have their pat or canned answers to religion in general when there are obvious differences to those who are willing to do even the minimal research. MOST religions at their core promote peace and harmony, but Islam does not and that is a simple fact. Those who have done violence in the name of other religions have most of the time been acting contradictory to the message of their religion as opposed to following what their religion says. Let's just look at some simple common sense things: 1) The Koran clearly promotes violence. Don't give me this bullcrap about translation. Very intellegent people have translated the Koran into English, not total idiots and there are specific passages that promote violence and martyrdom at the expense of all other peoples. 2) The founder of Islam was a violent, disreputable person. History tells us this. Just those two things ought to send up some red flags. Anyway, if anyone is truly interested in the articles I mentioned before or the snip of this passage from the Koran I mentioned, then I would be happy to forward it to them, but I'm not going to waste my time posting it here as it would most likely just be glossed over anyway. Bobby From: Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:02:21 -0500 Joe, I will be happy to do that as well. I just thought you might not want to here it from a layperson like me, but people who would have more influence, carry more clout, if you will on the subject. I will include this with the articles. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:39:45 -0500 Hey Bobby; If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already at least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual passage for us then? Just a suggestion. Joe Bobby Clark wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Thanks Bobby we await your information, Jim From: Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:20:43 -0500 I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, Yes. I then stated, Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven! The Imam was speechless. I continued, I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
I am interested in these pasages, I like to know the evidence and I can make up my mind, interesting at least. please post. Keep in mind that anything posted is also subject to comments both good bad and in some cases biased and misleading. this information would be very informative. Jim From: Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:15:55 -0500 I can tell now from the responses I hae seen that I should not get involved with this discussion because it seems most people have their pat or canned answers to religion in general when there are obvious differences to those who are willing to do even the minimal research. MOST religions at their core promote peace and harmony, but Islam does not and that is a simple fact. Those who have done violence in the name of other religions have most of the time been acting contradictory to the message of their religion as opposed to following what their religion says. Let's just look at some simple common sense things: 1) The Koran clearly promotes violence. Don't give me this bullcrap about translation. Very intellegent people have translated the Koran into English, not total idiots and there are specific passages that promote violence and martyrdom at the expense of all other peoples. 2) The founder of Islam was a violent, disreputable person. History tells us this. Just those two things ought to send up some red flags. Anyway, if anyone is truly interested in the articles I mentioned before or the snip of this passage from the Koran I mentioned, then I would be happy to forward it to them, but I'm not going to waste my time posting it here as it would most likely just be glossed over anyway. Bobby From: Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:02:21 -0500 Joe, I will be happy to do that as well. I just thought you might not want to here it from a layperson like me, but people who would have more influence, carry more clout, if you will on the subject. I will include this with the articles. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:39:45 -0500 Hey Bobby; If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already at least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual passage for us then? Just a suggestion. Joe Bobby Clark wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Yeah Joe I understand where you are coming from But unfortunately that wouldn't make us any better than them. It is hard to bring these religions to accountability. I don't waste much time on god and religion but when a jw or morman come knocking on my door, interrupting my Saturday morning hangover, instead of politely turning them away I start to question their church's stance on global warming and the invasion of Iraq. That usually sends them packing as they realise that the ethics of their belief are being questioned, that to me is bringing these religions to accountability and in a passive way. By the way, if the reasons that Bush invaded Iraq was for WMD (weapons of mass destruction) and ITNOG (in the name of god) and no WMD's have been found does Bush have to produce proof that he had permission from god to invade. Be good to hear it from god's mouth. Leo Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah lets 'roll up our sleves and FORCE them religions to be accountable to their tenets' LOL! classic. So are you preaching peace then Leo? Joe leo bunyan wrote: The amount of killing and wars had in the name of god be it alah god buddah etc does not reflect any of the love and peace that these religons preach.It is time to stop the charade and make these religions answerable to what they stand for Leo MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, Yes. I then stated, Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven! The Imam was speechless. I continued, I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me? You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
I start talking about the Flying Spaghetti Monster... leo bunyan wrote: Yeah Joe I understand where you are coming from But unfortunately that wouldn't make us any better than them. It is hard to bring these religions to accountability. I don't waste much time on god and religion but when a jw or morman come knocking on my door, interrupting my Saturday morning hangover, instead of politely turning them away I start to question their church's stance on global warming and the invasion of Iraq. That usually sends them packing as they realise that the ethics of their belief are being questioned, that to me is bringing these religions to accountability and in a passive way. By the way, if the reasons that Bush invaded Iraq was for WMD (weapons of mass destruction) and ITNOG (in the name of god) and no WMD's have been found does Bush have to produce proof that he had permission from god to invade. Be good to hear it from god's mouth. Leo */Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Yeah lets 'roll up our sleves and FORCE them religions to be accountable to their tenets' LOL! classic. So are you preaching peace then Leo? Joe leo bunyan wrote: The amount of killing and wars had in the name of god be it alah god buddah etc does not reflect any of the love and peace that these religons preach.It is time to stop the charade and make these religions answerable to what they stand for Leo */MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, Yes. I then stated, Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven! The Imam was speechless. I continued, I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
That's great I'll try that one!!! Then there was the dyslexic insomniac agnostic that used to lay awake at night wondering if there really was a dog!!! Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I start talking about the Flying Spaghetti Monster... leo bunyan wrote: Yeah Joe I understand where you are coming from But unfortunately that wouldn't make us any better than them. It is hard to bring these religions to accountability. I don't waste much time on god and religion but when a jw or morman come knocking on my door, interrupting my Saturday morning hangover, instead of politely turning them away I start to question their church's stance on global warming and the invasion of Iraq. That usually sends them packing as they realise that the ethics of their belief are being questioned, that to me is bringing these religions to accountability and in a passive way. By the way, if the reasons that Bush invaded Iraq was for WMD (weapons of mass destruction) and ITNOG (in the name of god) and no WMD's have been found does Bush have to produce proof that he had permission from god to invade. Be good to hear it from god's mouth. Leo */Joe Street /* wrote: Yeah lets 'roll up our sleves and FORCE them religions to be accountable to their tenets' LOL! classic. So are you preaching peace then Leo? Joe leo bunyan wrote: The amount of killing and wars had in the name of god be it alah god buddah etc does not reflect any of the love and peace that these religons preach.It is time to stop the charade and make these religions answerable to what they stand for Leo */MK DuPree /* wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] To: Golf Teacher Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, Non-believers! I responded, So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, Yes. I then stated, Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven! The Imam was speechless. I continued, I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
nothing unites the ignorant masses like a common hatred; the corollary is, if you want people to rise up against YOUR enemy, only tell them what you want them to know, and that is only enough to get them to also hate your enemy. we're all in this together. regardless of faith. From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?Date:Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:38:51 -0800 (PST) The Bible is full of tales of violence. Islam is basically wherethe Christian world was a century ago re the rights of women etc. so we shoulnt be toffee nosed and oh so righteous. Help your brother and sister to achieve more enlightenment and stop throwing stones when you live in a glass house. KirkZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/15/06, Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any ofthe Koran. There is a particular passage known as the "Sword Passage" thatpromotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. Is Islam a religion of violence, or is the violence related to the fact that a large portion of the world's islam population is in opressed third world countries where there is little hope of changing their government (or the US government) that is opressing them and people turn to religion instead, in this case Islam, picking and choosing the portions of it that help them resist their opression, which are often the violent portions. My impression of christianity is that it is a particularly violent religion as well. At least the way many so called christians choose to practice it. I have had christians tell me how good GWB is and how they know he's a good born again christian. So either they're wrong, or christianity too has a place for extreme violence as well. And, how about all of the "family values" preachers who quote bible passages that are then used to support beating gay people to death. Or the KKK who purport to be following good christian teachings too. I always thought that Jesus preached tolerance and forgiveness, but this doesn't seem to be too in vogue in many christians. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Sponsored LinkMortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new house payment ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
It will be interesting to see if you can find any documentation stating reasons why moslem, jew, and christian was able to live peacefully next to each other in Medina during the settlement of prophet Muhammad in that city. PJW - Original Message - From: Bobby Clark To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 3:15 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? I can tell now from the responses I hae seen that I should not get involved with this discussion because it seems most people have their pat or canned answers to religion in general when there are obvious differences to those who are willing to do even the minimal research. MOST religions at their core promote peace and harmony, but Islam does not and that is a simple fact. Those who have done violence in the name of other religions have most of the time been acting contradictory to the message of their religion as opposed to following what their religion says. Let's just look at some simple common sense things: 1) The Koran clearly promotes violence. Don't give me this bullcrap about translation. Very intellegent people have translated the Koran into English, not total idiots and there are specific passages that promote violence and martyrdom at the expense of all other peoples. 2) The founder of Islam was a violent, disreputable person. History tells us this. Just those two things ought to send up some red flags. Anyway, if anyone is truly interested in the articles I mentioned before or the snip of this passage from the Koran I mentioned, then I would be happy to forward it to them, but I'm not going to waste my time posting it here as it would most likely just be glossed over anyway. Bobby From: Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:02:21 -0500 Joe, I will be happy to do that as well. I just thought you might not want to here it from a layperson like me, but people who would have more influence, carry more clout, if you will on the subject. I will include this with the articles. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:39:45 -0500 Hey Bobby; If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already at least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual passage for us then? Just a suggestion. Joe Bobby Clark wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
only be defeated if this central arrogance - one as evident in the subjugation of Asia, the Middle East and Africa around a century ago as it is in the cruel and deliberate blowing up of civilians in night clubs, restaurants and shops today - is overcome. This all has very little to do with different religions, or cultures, even if the issues can be phrased in various ways and languages. The central challenge facing the world in the face of 9/11 and all the other terrorist acts preceding and following it, is to create a global order that defends security while also making real the aspirations to equality and mutual respect that modernity itself has aroused and proclaimed but has spectacularly failed so far to fulfil. Terrorism, then, is a world problem in cause and in impact. It should be addressed in a global, cosmopolitan, context. Europe will probably be again its victim, but it is also historically and morally a contributor to this abuse of political opposition, and an architect of political violence. All human beings, European or not, are locked into a conflict that will endure for decades, the outcome of which is not certain. In engaging with it, citizens need five things: a clear sense of history; recognition of the reality of the danger; steady, intelligent, political leadership; the building of mass support within European and global society for resistance to this new and major threat; and above all, our best defense, a commitment to liberal and democratic values. The Irish poet W.B. Yeats wrote in The Second Coming (1921 ): Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. We must, and can still, prove him wrong. The future - just - remains open. Further Reading: Gilles Kepel, Jihad, the trail of political Islam (I.B. Tauris, 2002) Malise Ruthven, A Fury for God, the Islamist attack on America (Granta, 2002) Fred Halliday, Nation and Religion in the Middle East (Saqi, 2000) Walter Laqueur, Terrorism (Weidenfeld Nicolson, 1978) Conor Gearty, Terror (Faber, 1991) Paul Berman, Terror and Liberalism (Norton, 2003) Tony Honore, The Right to Rebel, in Conor Gearty, Terrorism (Dartmouth, 1996) Fidel Castro, History Will Absolve Me, the speech from the dock after the failed armed attack on the Moncada barracks in Santiago de Cuba in July 1953. Donald L. Horowitz The Deadly Ethnic Riot (University of California Press, 2001) This article is based on a talk at Goodenough House in November 2003, organised by the Goodenough Trust. A version of it will appear in a book entitled Terrorism: Challenge of the 21st Century? to be published later in 2004 I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
it here as it would most likely just be glossed over anyway. Bobby From: Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:02:21 -0500 Joe, I will be happy to do that as well. I just thought you might not want to here it from a layperson like me, but people who would have more influence, carry more clout, if you will on the subject. I will include this with the articles. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:39:45 -0500 Hey Bobby; If you want to present something for us to form our own opinion, then why bother pasting the opinions of the so called experts. There is already at least one level of interpretation there. Why not go to the source. I'm always a fan of getting to the roots. How about pasting in the actual passage for us then? Just a suggestion. Joe Bobby Clark wrote: I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any of the Koran. There is a particular passage known as the Sword Passage that promotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence. I will gather some articles from well known scholars that show this and post them so that you can form your own opinion of course. This will take me a few days, though. As for the fellow who supposedly did this, my opinion is that it was made up. I read on truthorfiction.com that the guy mentioned in the email claims that it really happened, but there were no others who substantiated this. There had to have been a good number of people there if it really happened so it is suspiscous that no one else can substantiate it. Bobby From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:56:14 -0500 My understanding of the word 'Jihad' is the idea of personal growth. Fighting the good fight within yourself. Battling your demons and all that. Of course as is the case with all the organized religions the ambitious get ahold of a drop of wisdom like that and twist twist twist Joe Jason Katie wrote: ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had the impression that jihad is supposed to be a method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - *From:* MK DuPree mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Mendoza, Ray R [NTK] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Golf Teacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel
[Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
ummm... i think i might have to declare bull. isnt the original mindset of Islam peace and prosperity? i had theimpression thatjihad is supposed to bea method of self defense, not world domination and all that other super-spun crap. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 ___ Biof
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
No it is pure bullshit. Check out http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp You can always check out lots of rumors at www.snopes2.com I get all kinds of email crap - almost all of it lies. Ollie North warned us about Osama Bin Laden, not true, liberals took the words "so help up God" off the FDR memoral, not true. Religious intolerance led both Muslims and Christians to kill millions of people. If God does exist I'm sure he is ashamed of Christians and Muslims and probably every other religion. Ken- Original Message From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 10:11:07 PMSubject: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Sponsored Link Degrees for working adults in as fast as 1 year. Bachelors, Masters, Associates. Top schools___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
In my opinion, This view pointis inconsistent with the true teachings of the Koran - as I understand. Keep in mind that most Christian churches including Catholic are also inconsistent with the teachings of Christ. Organized religion of any faith breeds hatred, but consistent adherenceto fundamentals consistent with the teachings of any faithdoes not. If you look closely enough you will see that powerover others and money are the root causes of this phenomena, It is when manbecomes the middle man that things gobad. My best, Jim - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:11 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus? Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is a well known leader in prison ministry. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainableli
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
MK DuPree wrote: Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree This is nothing more than a means to stir up fear. Key terms, like "liberal media" and "ACLU" are inserted to elicit an uncritical response among the "faithful", and whenever you read tripe like this, rest assured that a LOT of people believe it because it's exactly what they WANT to believe. By the way, Arabic Christians and some Jews refer to God as Allah. There is a concerted effort among certain Christian groups to associate Allah with a regional, pagan deity, but the truth is, "Allah" means "God" in Arabic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
Hmm?I believewhat that Imamsaid does not represent the trueMuslim religion. I lived ina country where the majority are muslim so I met many believers. I never studiedMuslim personally; I was in Catholic school for 6 years and Protestan for another 6 years. Imo, Roman Catolic, Protestan, Muslim are pretty much the same. The major difference is how they achieve their final targets. The moral teachings are the same. "Do not do to others whatwe dont want to do to ourselves" ---All 4 religions that I know also have this passage but in their own versions. About theholy jihad... it's the same asthe Crusadesof medieval times. It's ironic thatreligions, whichare created to bring salvation, compassion to humanity, actually createswars.Religion's fault? I dont think so. We cannot judge a religion based on what some of the believers did. It's the same as everything, religion is just a guide; the actions, theinterpretations, all depends on the people themselves. Lesson to learn here: We need to be very careful when studying religion,dont be arrogant,dont be conceited, and think the deep meanings inside the teachings, not just memorizing word by words (We are much better than computer).Then we could conclude,practice them in our life andreduce the possibilities of misinterpretation/misleading. Bottomline, eliminate the word "I". Note: Sry for my poor english.. _. Hope it's still readable. Thanks. Richard From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:11:07 -0600 Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized. Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathews, is
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?
http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/faithpeople.html Muslims believe that God had previously revealed Himself to the earlier prophets of the Jews and Christians, such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Muslims therefore accept the teachings of both the Jewish Torah and the Christian Gospels. They believe that Islam is the perfection of the religion revealed first to Abraham (who is considered the first Muslim) and later to other prophets. Muslims believe that Jews and Christians have strayed from God's true faith but hold them in higher esteem than pagans and unbelievers. They call Jews and Christians the "People of the Book" and allow them to practice their own religions. Muslims believe that Muhammad is the "seal of the prophecy," by which they mean that he is the last in the series of prophets God sent to mankind. Muslims abhor the followers of later prophets. This attitude serves to explain the extreme Muslim animosity toward Bahais, followers of a nineteenth-century prophet, who in the Muslim mind is false. JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In my opinion, This view pointis inconsistent with the true teachings of the Koran - as I understand. Keep in mind that most Christian churches including Catholic are also inconsistent with the teachings of Christ. Organized religion of any faith breeds hatred, but consistent adherenceto fundamentals consistent with the teachings of any faithdoes not. If you look closely enough you will see that powerover others and money are the root causes of this phenomena, It is when manbecomes the middle man that things gobad.My best, Jim- Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:11 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?Can I get the List's opinion on the following that was forwarded to me? I am in almost complete ignorance of the Muslim religion. Thanks. Mike DuPree- Original Message - From: "Mendoza, Ray R [NTK]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Golf Teacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: FW: Allah or Jesus? Allah or Jesus..? Something very interesting to share with you... Rick MATHEWS is a well known leader in prison ministry. The Muslim religion in the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!!! Allah or Jesus? By Rick Mathews Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the CASE; can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven. Is that correct?" The _expression_ on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar." He sheepishly replied, "Yes". I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs. In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! I think everyone in the US should be required to read this but with the liberal justice system,
