Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green
Dermot Donnelly's weirdly blind and ever more furious attempts to do just that here recently. Price's work is crucial to this discussion. You have to read it before you can dismiss it, and once you've read it you can't dismiss it. See: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#price We've been through this many times here before. It always ends the same way. Vegetarianism as such is not more sustainable than a mixed diet, and vegetarian farming systems are not sustainable, nor are they required. Factory farming of animals is indeed unsustainable, but that has nothing to do with the sustainability of real mixed farming - no form of industrialised agriculture is sustainable. Mixed farming is sustainable. Nature always does it that way too. Message from Ken Dunn, 28 Nov 2005 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg58252.html Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming From Juan Boveda, in this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59644.html Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green Please see my next post. Best Keith Terry Dyck From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:03:14 +0900 Hi Bob Hi again, This from the December 17 edition of the UK-based New Scientist. Regards, Bob. Save energy, eat green Are you considering switching to more eco-friendly fuels and means of transportation? You could do more by going vegan, say two University of Chicago researchers. Sigh... They didn't quote David Pimentel perhaps did they? You could do a hell of a lot more by getting away from industrialised agriculture, and then you'd find that sustainable farming just isn't sustainable unless you include animals, but these folks just aren't interested in hearing that news, they'll bend nature right out of shape rather than hear it. For the umpteenth time: Some people really hate it (and hate me) when I say these things, but there is no sustainable way of raising plants without animals. There is no traditional farming system that doesn't used animals, and never has been. It just doesn't work - soil fertility sooner or later fails, and then everything else fails too. Likewise in nature mixed farming is the rule, plants are always found with animals. God can't do it, and neither can we. Sustainable farms are mixed, integrated farms. Mumble mumble... Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin looked at the amount of fossil fuel used in the cultivation of various foods. This included the running of agricultural machinery, crop irrigation and the provision of food for livestock. Other factors considered were the emission of methane and nitrous oxide gases produced by stock animals and their manure. They found that the typical US diet, of which about 28 per cent comes from animal sources, generated the equivalent of nearly 1.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person per year more than a vegan diet with the same number of calories. By comparison, the difference in annual emissions from an average saloon car and a hybrid energy-efficient vehicle is just over a tonne. However, the eco-friendly meat-eater needn't rush off and join a vegan commune. The article advises there is an alternative: eat less-processed animal products and poultry instead of red meat and thus help reduce greenhouse gases. The nonsense I see from vegetarian proselytisers these days, especially vegan ones, really is not good testimony to the effects of their diet on their brain chemicals. They can't think straight, they're just denialists. The red meat thing is another load of crap. As yet, I have not found a single group.which was building and maintaining excellent bodies by living entirely on plant foodsIn every instance where groups involved had been long under this teaching, I found evidence of degeneration -- Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, by Weston A. Price, 1939. The source you can't argue with - though you can twist it, distort it and ignore it. Like veggie Dermot Donnelly's weirdly blind and ever more furious attempts to do just that here recently. I'm sorry to see New Scientist and people like George Monbiot supporting this kind of nonsense, they should know better. I think they should all go out and eat a good steak. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green
Hi Keith, The methane issue is something to be considered. Methane gas is 24 times more potent as a green house gas than CO2. Also in some areas of the planet such as the province of British Columbia, Canada, many good forests are clear cut to supply grazing land for ranchers. Those big evergreen trees they cut down are great carbon sinks. People who consume mostly organic, unprocessed fruits, vegetables, whole grains, seeds and nuts are healthier according to many studies done on this including a study done at Harvard University. I do agree that small farms are better for the environment than factory farms. Eating food that is grown locally by small organic growers is probably the best for the environment. (less food miles) Terry Dyck From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:03:14 +0900 Hi Bob Hi again, This from the December 17 edition of the UK-based New Scientist. Regards, Bob. Save energy, eat green Are you considering switching to more eco-friendly fuels and means of transportation? You could do more by going vegan, say two University of Chicago researchers. Sigh... They didn't quote David Pimentel perhaps did they? You could do a hell of a lot more by getting away from industrialised agriculture, and then you'd find that sustainable farming just isn't sustainable unless you include animals, but these folks just aren't interested in hearing that news, they'll bend nature right out of shape rather than hear it. For the umpteenth time: Some people really hate it (and hate me) when I say these things, but there is no sustainable way of raising plants without animals. There is no traditional farming system that doesn't used animals, and never has been. It just doesn't work - soil fertility sooner or later fails, and then everything else fails too. Likewise in nature mixed farming is the rule, plants are always found with animals. God can't do it, and neither can we. Sustainable farms are mixed, integrated farms. Mumble mumble... Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin looked at the amount of fossil fuel used in the cultivation of various foods. This included the running of agricultural machinery, crop irrigation and the provision of food for livestock. Other factors considered were the emission of methane and nitrous oxide gases produced by stock animals and their manure. They found that the typical US diet, of which about 28 per cent comes from animal sources, generated the equivalent of nearly 1.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person per year more than a vegan diet with the same number of calories. By comparison, the difference in annual emissions from an average saloon car and a hybrid energy-efficient vehicle is just over a tonne. However, the eco-friendly meat-eater needn't rush off and join a vegan commune. The article advises there is an alternative: eat less-processed animal products and poultry instead of red meat and thus help reduce greenhouse gases. The nonsense I see from vegetarian proselytisers these days, especially vegan ones, really is not good testimony to the effects of their diet on their brain chemicals. They can't think straight, they're just denialists. The red meat thing is another load of crap. As yet, I have not found a single group.which was building and maintaining excellent bodies by living entirely on plant foodsIn every instance where groups involved had been long under this teaching, I found evidence of degeneration -- Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, by Weston A. Price, 1939. The source you can't argue with - though you can twist it, distort it and ignore it. Like veggie Dermot Donnelly's weirdly blind and ever more furious attempts to do just that here recently. I'm sorry to see New Scientist and people like George Monbiot supporting this kind of nonsense, they should know better. I think they should all go out and eat a good steak. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green
Hello Bob and all. The title should have been Save energy, eat organic and local products To save energy and money we do not eat meat produced under US American style but Latin American style. Around here in the south of Paraguay we do not rise cattle US American style with large amount of fossil fuel involved in the production but we use a more economically and organically feasible way on the fields. Tractors are used in soybean production for exports of the grains, little is used as animal feed but only from by-products like soy oil extraction cake and wheat mill by-products. About nitrogen used as fertiliser, US depend on urea and ammonia produced with fossil fuel, around here lightning produces the nitrates. An ox or a person moves agricultural machinery. Cattle collect their food on the fields. The few places where electrical energy is useded, it comes from hydroelectric power 100% renovable. The water comes from rain and is safely keep in the wetlands or ponds and it is used during dry seasons not for irrigation but for water drinking. And yes, the fuel needed to move the cattle to the consumer is dinodiesel but never gasoline, even butcher's trucks are diesel powered. The vaccines and the parasite killers are imported. The reason to go this way is because we do not have many industries and tractors, spare parts, fuel, insecticide, fungicide, truck must be imported and they are very expensive items to charge to meat production with meat prices range of 1 - 2.2 US$/Kg. The imported items would lead any small o medium size rancher to bankrupt, so there are many economic factors that make impossible to use the US American style of rising cattle with low meat prices. Regards. Juan Paraguay -Mensaje original- De: Bob Molloy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado el: lunes 23 de enero de 2006 19:24 Para: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Asunto: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green Hi again, This from the December 17 edition of the UK-based New Scientist. Regards, Bob. Save energy, eat green Are you considering switching to more eco-friendly fuels and means of transportation? You could do more by going vegan, say two University of Chicago researchers. Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin looked at the amount of fossil fuel used in the cultivation of various foods. This included the running of agricultural machinery, crop irrigation and the provision of food for livestock. Other factors considered were the emission of methane and nitrous oxide gases produced by stock animals and their manure. They found that the typical US diet, of which about 28 per cent comes from animal sources, generated the equivalent of nearly 1.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person per year more than a vegan diet with the same number of calories. By comparison, the difference in annual emissions from an average saloon car and a hybrid energy-efficient vehicle is just over a tonne. However, the eco-friendly meat-eater needn't rush off and join a vegan commune. The article advises there is an alternative: eat less-processed animal products and poultry instead of red meat and thus help reduce greenhouse gases. Archivo: ATT00019.htm Archivo: ATT00020.txt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green
Hello Juan, Thanks for that input. You are bang on the button The title should have been Save energy, eat organic and local products To save energy and money we do not eat meat produced under US American style but Latin American style. Regards, Bob. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Save energy, eat green
Hi again, This from the December 17 edition of the UK-based New Scientist. Regards, Bob. Save energy, eat green Are you considering switching to more eco-friendly fuels and means oftransportation? You could do more by going vegan, say two University of Chicago researchers. Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin looked at the amount of fossil fuel used in the cultivation of various foods.This included therunning of agricultural machinery, crop irrigationand the provision of food for livestock. Other factors considered were theemission of methane and nitrous oxide gases produced by stock animals and their manure. They found that thetypical US diet, of which about28 per cent comes from animal sources, generated the equivalent of nearly 1.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person per year more than a vegan diet with the same number of calories. By comparison, the difference in annual emissions from an average saloon car and a hybrid energy-efficient vehicle is just over a tonne. However, theeco-friendlymeat-eater needn't rush off and join a vegan commune. The article advises there is an alternative:eat less-processed animal products and poultry instead of red meat andthus help reduce greenhouse gases. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Save energy, eat green
Hi Bob Hi again, This from the December 17 edition of the UK-based New Scientist. Regards, Bob. Save energy, eat green Are you considering switching to more eco-friendly fuels and means of transportation? You could do more by going vegan, say two University of Chicago researchers. Sigh... They didn't quote David Pimentel perhaps did they? You could do a hell of a lot more by getting away from industrialised agriculture, and then you'd find that sustainable farming just isn't sustainable unless you include animals, but these folks just aren't interested in hearing that news, they'll bend nature right out of shape rather than hear it. For the umpteenth time: Some people really hate it (and hate me) when I say these things, but there is no sustainable way of raising plants without animals. There is no traditional farming system that doesn't used animals, and never has been. It just doesn't work - soil fertility sooner or later fails, and then everything else fails too. Likewise in nature mixed farming is the rule, plants are always found with animals. God can't do it, and neither can we. Sustainable farms are mixed, integrated farms. Mumble mumble... Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin looked at the amount of fossil fuel used in the cultivation of various foods. This included the running of agricultural machinery, crop irrigation and the provision of food for livestock. Other factors considered were the emission of methane and nitrous oxide gases produced by stock animals and their manure. They found that the typical US diet, of which about 28 per cent comes from animal sources, generated the equivalent of nearly 1.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person per year more than a vegan diet with the same number of calories. By comparison, the difference in annual emissions from an average saloon car and a hybrid energy-efficient vehicle is just over a tonne. However, the eco-friendly meat-eater needn't rush off and join a vegan commune. The article advises there is an alternative: eat less-processed animal products and poultry instead of red meat and thus help reduce greenhouse gases. The nonsense I see from vegetarian proselytisers these days, especially vegan ones, really is not good testimony to the effects of their diet on their brain chemicals. They can't think straight, they're just denialists. The red meat thing is another load of crap. As yet, I have not found a single group.which was building and maintaining excellent bodies by living entirely on plant foodsIn every instance where groups involved had been long under this teaching, I found evidence of degeneration -- Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, by Weston A. Price, 1939. The source you can't argue with - though you can twist it, distort it and ignore it. Like veggie Dermot Donnelly's weirdly blind and ever more furious attempts to do just that here recently. I'm sorry to see New Scientist and people like George Monbiot supporting this kind of nonsense, they should know better. I think they should all go out and eat a good steak. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
