Re: [Biofuel] Short-range hydrogen (was solar hydrogen)
Why do you not use ethanol instead or biodiesel if the truck is a diesel? Our primary interest is in converting wood waste into methanol. That involves generating H2 and CO, and being able to sweeten the mix in order to increase yield, hence our interest in ancillary ways to generate and use hydrogen. To see any sense in hydrogen, you must use the unbeatable female logic, because I like it. Us girly-men do tend to look at things from a non-linear perspective at times :-) We're coming at this from a different angle. Over the past two decades we've built an intentional research community that does all sorts of interesting things here on our 130 acre campus. We're not looking to sell energy in any form; we just don't want to have to buy energy in order to support the work we do. Our prime goal is the study and utilization of sustainable systems, and often the key to that lies in diversity. So while it's quite true that some energy utilization paths make more sense than others in a given application, it's also true that there's value in keeping your options open. We're not going to bet the farm on any one path, and we've found that most technological options have something to offer at some point in the cycle. Our land has a wealth of energy resources including solar, wind, and hydro in addition to our forest's annual production of biomass. From that the community wants heating, cooling, lights, transportation fuel, food, fiber and so on. There's no one technology that can cover that wide a range of interests and activities so we're usually tinkering with a range of options and seeing how they might mesh to better meet our needs. And yes, sometimes we mess with options for no better reason that it pleases us to do so :-) Walt http://www.windward.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Short-range hydrogen (was solar hydrogen)
upon a time we had a Chevy Nova that we considered operating on hydrogen. Assuming that we stored the H2 in a series of small scuba-like tanks, we figured we could get about thirty miles before the H2 ran out. Initially, that was disappointing, but then we got to figuring that so long as we could then switch back to gasoline in order to continue on our way, the better way to look at this was that we'd be getting the first 30 miles each day from hydrogen, and for the vast majority of days, that was more than our actual usage. When we realized that a thirty mile range was sufficient to handle more than 90% of the trips we made in that rig, we began to see the utility of the conversion in a different light. Now, we're located on 130 acres and burn a considerable amount of gas running around the property, so even the few miles that the pickup truck was getting would be relevant, so long as we could switch back to gasoline when we make trips off property. It's been observed that sometimes The Problem isn't a factual lack, but rather a conceptual lock. For what it's worth, Walt http://www.windward.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Short-range hydrogen (was solar hydrogen)
Did you consider how many kWh it would have taken for that 30 miles on hydrogen, then compared how many miles that amount of kWh would have taken you on a pure EV? More than 60 miles .. That's the whole point these folks are missing. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it shouldn't be done, since they are throwing away a majority of the energy they are producing, and renewables are typically much higher priced, so you want to be as stingy as possible. = = = Original message = = = There is a small niche where the truck described makes some sense. Once upon a time we had a Chevy Nova that we considered operating on hydrogen. Assuming that we stored the H2 in a series of small scuba-like tanks, we figured we could get about thirty miles before the H2 ran out. ~Initially, that was disappointing, but then we got to figuring that so long as we could then switch back to gasoline in order to continue on our way, the better way to look at this was that we'd be getting the first 30 miles each day from hydrogen, and for the vast majority of days, that was more than our actual usage. ~When we realized that a thirty mile range was sufficient to handle more than 90% of the trips we made in that rig, we began to see the utility of the conversion in a different light. ~Now, we're located on 130 acres and burn a considerable amount of gas running around the property, so even the few miles that the pickup truck was getting would be relevant, so long as we could switch back to gasoline when we make trips off property. ~ ~It's been observed that sometimes The Problem isn't a factual lack, but rather a conceptual lock. For what it's worth, Walt http://www.windward.org/ ~ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Short-range hydrogen (was solar hydrogen)
Did you consider how many kWh it would have taken for that 30 miles on hydrogen, then compared how many miles that amount of kWh would have taken you on a pure EV? More than 60 miles .. That's the whole point these folks are missing. It's not that it can't be done, it's that it shouldn't be done, since they are throwing away a majority of the energy they are producing, and renewables are typically much higher priced, so you want to be as stingy as possible. On this point you and I completely agree. We can't afford to waste energy on hydrogen. We need to REDUCE energy use, not make it worse by getting rid of electrons as waste heat! By the way, Steve, thanks for the link to RepAmerica.org on your web site. It's very encouraging to read intelligent commentary from other conservative environmentalists. For anyone who's interested: http://www.repamerica.org/policy/energy.html robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
