Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest

[Mike Weaver]

No.  I find your logic hard to follow.
I also did not say being called "British Palestine" made it British.  At 
that time it was ruled by Britain. 
I never mentioned Hitler nor the Nazis.
Yes, I said the government of Israel has made mistakes and will most 
certainly continue to do so, as will the US. 
I just don't understand your 3rd sentance.  I am not talking about Hitler.
 >>After all it is your Gvnmt. who supplies the Arms to Israel and 
therefor you are as guilty as my Parents have been in the Holocaust
Canada sell $900,000,000 worth of arms annually.
Canada sell arms to Israel also: ** "Canada exported military goods 
valued at $100,000 or more to seven countries hosting armed conflicts in 
2002: Algeria , Colombia  India , Israel , Nigeria, the Philippines , 
and Sri Lanka . The value of arms exports to these countries totaled 
$8-million." -Wikipedia
So, as your government is selling arms to Israel that makes you as 
guilty as the rest of us?  By your logic you've got blood on your hands.
Also, I have to say, what's the difference between saying my thinking is 
impaired because I'm a citizen of the US, and saying that my thinking is 
impaired because I'm a citizen of Zambia?  That sounds like a bigoted 
statement to me. 

Fritz Friesinger wrote:

> Mike,
> your point,that it was british Palestine and so make things sound,it 
> was not real Palestine!
> Than,if you say,the Israeli Gvnmt.hade made some mistakes it souns 
> like: everyone is entitled to some Mistakes and so
> But you are so far of reality as if you would say Hitler made some 
> Mistakes and this is making my final point in my last Mail!
> After all it is your Gvnmt. who supplies the Arms to Israel and 
> therefor you are as guilty as my Parents have been in the Holocaust
> Simon Wiesenthal said :you have to make a stand !What an emty Phrase 
> considering the murder going on in Palestine,an occupation lasting now 
> 40 Years
> To you point 6. I doo think that you beeing an US American impairs 
> your thinking
> and the lack of my intellectual capacity is more my lack of good english
> get the picture?
> Fritz
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Weaver <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest
>
> Fritz,
>
> 1.  No, I said it was then called British Palestine.
> 2.  It was then ruled by the British as part of the British Empire. 
> But, than does not make it British.  The people living there were
> primarily Muslim Arabs, a few Christians and, surprisingly, some
> Jewish
> people.
> 3.  I am not saying things are not hard for Palestinians under the
> Israeli government, not to mention the PA is likely the most corrupt
> government in the world.
> 4.  I am also not saying I approve of everything the Israeli Gov't
> does.
> 5.  I also never said I approve of the way Israel is handling the
> current situation.
> 6.  My being an American does not impair my thinking; ad hominem
> attacks
> usually indicate that you are out of intellectual ammo.
> 7. My point with the land is that most of us in North America are
> arguably living on land that was home to Native Americans.  I'm
> fairly
> sure my huse is on land once occupied by the Algonkian nation.  If
> you
> are in Quebec, you are probably living on Abenaki land.
> 8. I offer no defense of US mining companies.  Most of what they
> do is
> indefensible.
> 9.  I am saying I think blowing each other to bits won't solve
> anything.
>
> Nowhere in my post do I say I defend what is going on in Palestine
> and
> Israel.  I did say I think it was a mistake to drop all the Jewish
> refugees into that area.
> But, no one else wanted them.  I personally think the US should have
> taken them in.
>
> I am not quite sure what you mean by your last sentance.
>
> -Mike
>
> Fritz Friesinger wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> > what you are saying is,Palestine was British then? so how it became
> > British?and thas this make the whole thing less hard for the
> Palestinians?
> > What happened a hundred years ago should not happening anymore
> today!
> > We came a long way to realize the wrongs of the past but instaed of
> > garding that those attrocytis cant be repeatet we are turning a
> blind
> > eye and excuse things with old rethoric.Your analysis sucks but
> then
> > you are US Citicen and

Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest

[Fritz Friesinger]

Mike,
your point,that it was british Palestine and so 
make things sound,it was not real Palestine!
Than,if you say,the Israeli Gvnmt.hade made some 
mistakes it souns like: everyone is entitled to some Mistakes and 
so
But you are so far of reality as if you would say 
Hitler made some Mistakes and this is making my final point in my last 
Mail!
After all it is your Gvnmt. who supplies the Arms 
to Israel and therefor you are as guilty as my Parents have been in the 
Holocaust
Simon Wiesenthal said :you have to make a stand 
!What an emty Phrase considering the murder going on in Palestine,an occupation 
lasting now 40 Years
To you point 6. I doo think that you beeing an US 
American impairs your thinking
and the lack of my intellectual capacity is more my 
lack of good english
get the picture?
Fritz

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mike Weaver 
  
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:19 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the 
  hornet's nest
  Fritz,1.  No, I said it was then called British 
  Palestine.2.  It was then ruled by the British as part of the British 
  Empire.  But, than does not make it British.  The people living 
  there were primarily Muslim Arabs, a few Christians and, surprisingly, 
  some Jewish people.3.  I am not saying things are not hard for 
  Palestinians under the Israeli government, not to mention the PA is likely 
  the most corrupt government in the world.4.  I am also not saying 
  I approve of everything the Israeli Gov't does.5.  I also never said 
  I approve of the way Israel is handling the current situation.6.  
  My being an American does not impair my thinking; ad hominem attacks 
  usually indicate that you are out of intellectual ammo.7. My point 
  with the land is that most of us in North America are arguably living on 
  land that was home to Native Americans.  I'm fairly sure my huse is 
  on land once occupied by the Algonkian nation.  If you are in Quebec, 
  you are probably living on Abenaki land.8. I offer no defense of US mining 
  companies.  Most of what they do is indefensible.9.  I am 
  saying I think blowing each other to bits won't solve anything.Nowhere 
  in my post do I say I defend what is going on in Palestine and 
  Israel.  I did say I think it was a mistake to drop all the Jewish 
  refugees into that area.But, no one else wanted them.  I 
  personally think the US should have taken them in. I am not quite 
  sure what you mean by your last sentance.-MikeFritz Friesinger 
  wrote:> Mike,> what you are saying is,Palestine was British 
  then? so how it became > British?and thas this make the whole thing 
  less hard for the Palestinians?> What happened a hundred years ago 
  should not happening anymore today!> We came a long way to realize the 
  wrongs of the past but instaed of > garding that those attrocytis cant 
  be repeatet we are turning a blind > eye and excuse things with old 
  rethoric.Your analysis sucks but then > you are US Citicen and what can 
  we expect from such!> To my very own situation,i live in Quebec Canada 
  on a piece of Land (a > former open pit Graphit mine) nobody wantet so 
  i got it fairly > cheep.But then i am cleaning up the mess a US Mining 
  companie had left > and this for seven years now!> i have put 
  trouts in my lakes and had spent a lot of money for topsoil > and plant 
  trees and garden!And once i be finished (probably never) > people will 
  come and ask if the could live on my land and i will > refuse the 
  request if the show me the same attitude as you> 
  Fritz>> - Original Message 
  -> *From:* Mike Weaver <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org> 
  <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>>     
  *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:18 AM> 
  *Subject:* [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's 
  nest>> I can't say I am always a fan of 
  the Israeli government right or> 
  wrong,> and let's be honest, they've made some 
  mistakes (but then look at> the 
  US> gov't), but they 
  are> in an impossible spot.  Do they need 
  some nudging to do they right> thing? Yes, but 
  we all do.>> Let's stop and think, "Why 
  are they where they are?  - Because NO> 
  Western country would take then. Roosevelt turned away of boatload 
  of> Jewish refugees.  They really didn't 
  have a lot of options.  In> 
  Poland,> TWO YEARS after WWII ended, there was 
  a massacre of Jews.  I can> understand why 
  one might gamble on a boat trip to (then) 
  British> Palestine rather than go "home" to 
  Europe.>> Personally, I think the whole 
  idea was ill-conceived, and US> should 
  have> settled the refugees in the larg

Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest

[Mike Weaver]

Fritz,

1.  No, I said it was then called British Palestine.
2.  It was then ruled by the British as part of the British Empire.  
But, than does not make it British.  The people living there were 
primarily Muslim Arabs, a few Christians and, surprisingly, some Jewish 
people.
3.  I am not saying things are not hard for Palestinians under the 
Israeli government, not to mention the PA is likely the most corrupt 
government in the world.
4.  I am also not saying I approve of everything the Israeli Gov't does.
5.  I also never said I approve of the way Israel is handling the 
current situation.
6.  My being an American does not impair my thinking; ad hominem attacks 
usually indicate that you are out of intellectual ammo.
7. My point with the land is that most of us in North America are 
arguably living on land that was home to Native Americans.  I'm fairly 
sure my huse is on land once occupied by the Algonkian nation.  If you 
are in Quebec, you are probably living on Abenaki land.
8. I offer no defense of US mining companies.  Most of what they do is 
indefensible.
9.  I am saying I think blowing each other to bits won't solve anything.

Nowhere in my post do I say I defend what is going on in Palestine and 
Israel.  I did say I think it was a mistake to drop all the Jewish 
refugees into that area.
But, no one else wanted them.  I personally think the US should have 
taken them in. 

I am not quite sure what you mean by your last sentance.

-Mike

Fritz Friesinger wrote:

> Mike,
> what you are saying is,Palestine was British then? so how it became 
> British?and thas this make the whole thing less hard for the Palestinians?
> What happened a hundred years ago should not happening anymore today!
> We came a long way to realize the wrongs of the past but instaed of 
> garding that those attrocytis cant be repeatet we are turning a blind 
> eye and excuse things with old rethoric.Your analysis sucks but then 
> you are US Citicen and what can we expect from such!
> To my very own situation,i live in Quebec Canada on a piece of Land (a 
> former open pit Graphit mine) nobody wantet so i got it fairly 
> cheep.But then i am cleaning up the mess a US Mining companie had left 
> and this for seven years now!
> i have put trouts in my lakes and had spent a lot of money for topsoil 
> and plant trees and garden!And once i be finished (probably never) 
> people will come and ask if the could live on my land and i will 
> refuse the request if the show me the same attitude as you
> Fritz
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Weaver <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:18 AM
> *Subject:* [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest
>
> I can't say I am always a fan of the Israeli government right or
> wrong,
> and let's be honest, they've made some mistakes (but then look at
> the US
> gov't), but they are
> in an impossible spot.  Do they need some nudging to do they right
> thing? Yes, but we all do.
>
> Let's stop and think, "Why are they where they are?  - Because NO
> Western country would take then. Roosevelt turned away of boatload of
> Jewish refugees.  They really didn't have a lot of options.  In
> Poland,
> TWO YEARS after WWII ended, there was a massacre of Jews.  I can
> understand why one might gamble on a boat trip to (then) British
> Palestine rather than go "home" to Europe.
>
> Personally, I think the whole idea was ill-conceived, and US
> should have
> settled the refugees in the largely unocupied American West.  Heck, a
> state even.
>
> Besides, I think if you wait long enough, Fritz, you'll see the same
> behavior here anyway.  We're already denying blacks the right to
> vote in
> some states, and it's pretty much illegal to be black in a white area
> after dark already.
>
>  >>Step one is to confiscate the land owned by
> African-Americans, [or Native Americans] evict them from it and
> use the land
> to build massive new subdivisions. Only white
> Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. - Check, doing
> that here.
>
> I notice you're in Canada - do you live in a house?  Where did the
> land
> come from?  A friendly Algonkin
> <http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/algonquian/algonhist1.htm> 
>
> give it to you?  I notice the Canadia Government has been
> having a little trouble with its First Nation denizens - a few Mohawk
> lawsuits  here and there.
>
> "Don't judge, so that

Re: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest

[Fritz Friesinger]

Mike,
what you are saying is,Palestine was British then? 
so how it became British?and thas this make the whole thing less hard for the 
Palestinians?
What happened a hundred years ago should not 
happening anymore today!
We came a long way to realize the wrongs of the 
past but instaed of garding that those attrocytis cant be repeatet we are 
turning a blind eye and excuse things with old rethoric.Your analysis sucks but 
then you are US Citicen and what can we expect from such!
To my very own situation,i live in Quebec Canada on 
a piece of Land (a former open pit Graphit mine) nobody wantet so i got it 
fairly cheep.But then i am cleaning up the mess a US Mining companie had left 
and this for seven years now!
i have put trouts in my lakes and had spent a lot 
of money for topsoil and plant trees and garden!And once i be finished (probably 
never) people will come and ask if the could live on my land and i will refuse 
the request if the show me the same attitude as you
Fritz

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mike Weaver 
  
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:18 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's 
  nest
  I can't say I am always a fan of the Israeli government right 
  or wrong, and let's be honest, they've made some mistakes (but then look 
  at the US gov't), but they arein an impossible spot.  Do they 
  need some nudging to do they right thing? Yes, but we all do.Let's 
  stop and think, "Why are they where they are?  - Because NO Western 
  country would take then. Roosevelt turned away of boatload of Jewish 
  refugees.  They really didn't have a lot of options.  In Poland, 
  TWO YEARS after WWII ended, there was a massacre of Jews.  I can 
  understand why one might gamble on a boat trip to (then) British 
  Palestine rather than go "home" to Europe.Personally, I think the 
  whole idea was ill-conceived, and US should have settled the refugees in 
  the largely unocupied American West.  Heck, a state 
  even.Besides, I think if you wait long enough, Fritz, you'll see the 
  same behavior here anyway.  We're already denying blacks the right to 
  vote in some states, and it's pretty much illegal to be black in a white 
  area after dark already.  >>Step one is to confiscate 
  the land owned byAfrican-Americans, [or Native Americans] evict them from 
  it and use the landto build massive new subdivisions. Only 
  whiteProtestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. - Check, doing 
  that here.I notice you're in Canada - do you live in a 
  house?  Where did the land come from?  A friendly Algonkin 
  <http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/algonquian/algonhist1.htm>  
  give it to you?  I notice the Canadia Government has beenhaving a 
  little trouble with its First Nation denizens - a few Mohawk 
  lawsuits  here and there. "Don't judge, so that you won't be 
  judged.<http://bible.cc/matthew/7-2.htm>For 
  with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever 
  measure you measure, it will be measured to you.^3 <http://bible.cc/matthew/7-3.htm> 
  Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider 
  the beam that is in your own eye?Or, let he who is free from sin cast 
  the first stone.-MikeFritz Friesinger wrote:> 
  Bob,> i bett you havent wread the report of www.btselem.org > <http://www.btselem.org>> you would 
  not talk such rhubbish!> Fritz>> 
  - Original Message -> *From:* Bob 
  Molloy <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> 
  <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>> 
  *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:52 PM> 
  *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Check Your 
  Beliefs>> Yo 
  Fritz,> Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove 
  it your ethnic forebears> killed off six 
  million of these bloody Jews only to have the 
  rest> of us dumb westerners stop them just 
  before they'd finished the> job. Now it's up to 
  the poor Palestinians with only suicide> 
  bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us 
  left> off. We need to force the Israelis to 
  open these roads, tear down> their walls and 
  move back onto their own territory so that the> 
  bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get 
  closer> to Israeli settlements.  At least 
  let's have a level playing field> here. After 
  it's all over and the Palestinians have 
  finally> established their Muslim state we can 
  allow a few Israeli refugees> into western 
  countries just as long as they toe the line and 
  run> the garbage collection systems for 
  us.> Good one, 
  Fritz,> Bob. 
  >> - 
  Origin

[Biofuel] Smacking the hornet's nest

[Mike Weaver]

I can't say I am always a fan of the Israeli government right or wrong, 
and let's be honest, they've made some mistakes (but then look at the US 
gov't), but they are
in an impossible spot.  Do they need some nudging to do they right 
thing? Yes, but we all do.

Let's stop and think, "Why are they where they are?  - Because NO 
Western country would take then. Roosevelt turned away of boatload of 
Jewish refugees.  They really didn't have a lot of options.  In Poland, 
TWO YEARS after WWII ended, there was a massacre of Jews.  I can 
understand why one might gamble on a boat trip to (then) British 
Palestine rather than go "home" to Europe.

Personally, I think the whole idea was ill-conceived, and US should have 
settled the refugees in the largely unocupied American West.  Heck, a 
state even.

Besides, I think if you wait long enough, Fritz, you'll see the same 
behavior here anyway.  We're already denying blacks the right to vote in 
some states, and it's pretty much illegal to be black in a white area 
after dark already. 

 >>Step one is to confiscate the land owned by
African-Americans, [or Native Americans] evict them from it and use the land
to build massive new subdivisions. Only white
Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions. - Check, doing 
that here.

I notice you're in Canada - do you live in a house?  Where did the land 
come from?  A friendly Algonkin 
  
give it to you?  I notice the Canadia Government has been
having a little trouble with its First Nation denizens - a few Mohawk 
lawsuits  here and there. 

"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged.

For with whatever judgment you judge, 
you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be 
measured to you.

^3  Why do you see the speck that is in 
your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?

Or, let he who is free from sin cast the first stone.

-Mike


Fritz Friesinger wrote:

> Bob,
> i bett you havent wread the report of www.btselem.org 
> 
> you would not talk such rhubbish!
> Fritz
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Bob Molloy 
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
>
> Yo Fritz,
> Yeah, right on Fritz. And just to prove it your ethnic forebears
> killed off six million of these bloody Jews only to have the rest
> of us dumb westerners stop them just before they'd finished the
> job. Now it's up to the poor Palestinians with only suicide
> bombers and Katushya rockets to carry on where the rest of us left
> off. We need to force the Israelis to open these roads, tear down
> their walls and move back onto their own territory so that the
> bombers in civilian clothing have a fighting chance to get closer
> to Israeli settlements.  At least let's have a level playing field
> here. After it's all over and the Palestinians have finally
> established their Muslim state we can allow a few Israeli refugees
> into western countries just as long as they toe the line and run
> the garbage collection systems for us.
> Good one, Fritz,
> Bob. 
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Fritz Friesinger 
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:33 AM
> *Subject:* [Biofuel] Check Your Beliefs
>
> Forewardet by Fritz
>  
> 
> --
>
> Check Your Beliefs
>
> By Charley Reese
>
> 03/17/06 -- -- Let's play a fantasy game to check on
> our belief in human rights. Let's suppose that in a
> mythical state, a governor announced a campaign to
> punish African-Americans for alleged violence.
>
> Step one is to confiscate the land owned by
> African-Americans, evict them from it and use the land
> to build massive new subdivisions. Only white
> Protestant Christians may live in these subdivisions.
>
> Step two is to connect these all-white Protestant
> Christian settlements to each other by a highway on
> which African-Americans are forbidden to drive. To
> facilitate control, the automobile tags for
> African-Americans will be a different color from the
> tags issued to white motorists. Checkpoints would be
> set up all around the state capitol to search and
> harass African-Americans trying to enter.
>
> Would you support such a plan? Would you hail that
> mythical governor as a man of peace? Would you