Re: [Biofuel] Speaking of glop
Hi All, After many successful batches made from vegetable oil ( both unused and heavily used) I decided it was time to try all beef lard. Perhaps I shouldn«t have used this method but I did anyway. I used Alex Kacs first stage (of two) method. After liquifying the lard, I added the required 1 ml of concentrated (98%) sulfuric acid at 35-37 degrees centigrade. While it was all stirring for the required time period, somewhere around the 20 minute mark it nearly all solidified. I checked the temperature. It was still within the required range. I ramped up the heat to about 55 degrees C. and it all liquified. Did I read something wrong or do something wrong? I wasn«t expecting solidification until I turned off the heat. I let it sit overnight, reheated to 55 C. the next day and performed the second stage base transesterification. It seemed to go well. I got good separation but upon washing I got the dreaded white layer (which I think is unreacted lard) between the BioD and the water later. Do I need to use more than 1 ml of sulfuric acid because I«m using all lard? Now Keith, I have been reading the archives but I seem to have missed something. Good for you - keep trying. However, the other resource you're referred to is the Journey to Forever Biofuel section: The two-stage base-base method avoids the need for titration and produces good results even with higher FFA levels. It's the method-of-choice for animal fats. See: Which method to use? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#which That's here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html Two-stage biodiesel process Since you're using new lard rather than used, you might just as well have used the single-stage base method. But for methanol requirements see: How much methanol? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html For tallow and lard, use higher excesses. Either will do. Best wishes Keith Thanks in advance, Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Speaking of glop
Dear Mr. Burgos, The lard was purchased at a local store. I have no idea of the protein content. When liquified it was completely transparent with a golden yellow tint. I took the lard to about 70 degrees C. first and let it cool down to 35-37 degrees before adding the sulfuric acid. Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: francisco j burgos To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 18:41 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Speaking of glop Dear Mr. Irwin: just for the records. Do you know if the beef lard ( tallow?) you used contained protein (meat)?. If so, how much (%)?. Tks, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:16 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Speaking of glop Hi All, After many successful batches made from vegetable oil ( both unused and heavily used) I decided it was time to try all beef lard. Perhaps I shouldn«t have used this method but I did anyway. I used Alex Kacs first stage (of two) method. After liquifying the lard, I added the required 1 ml of concentrated (98%) sulfuric acid at 35-37 degrees centigrade. While it was all stirring for the required time period, somewhere around the 20 minute mark it nearly all solidified. I checked the temperature. It was still within the required range. I ramped up the heat to about 55 degrees C. and it all liquified. Did I read something wrong or do something wrong? I wasn«t expecting solidification until I turned off the heat. I let it sit overnight, reheated to 55 C. the next day and performed the second stage base transesterification. It seemed to go well. I got good separation but upon washing I got the dreaded white layer (which I think is unreacted lard) between the BioD and the water later. Do I need to use more than 1 ml of sulfuric acid because I«m using all lard? Now Keith, I have been reading the archives but I seem to have missed something. Thanks in advance, Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 6:24 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] got glop (yup) Hi Derick, welcome Hi all I am new to this forum so if I step on some toes let me know. There are rules, which the Welcome message you were sent referred to: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html They're sensible enough, you shouldn't have any problems. I have been looking into the biodiesal for a few months now and there has been a lot of good articles. I have been printing them and studying them. I have now have a processing system I have built and it professional looking if I do say so. I got some feed stock from the local from the local slop shop. (Ill never eat there again. Yuck) No, don't eat there! What I did. First try transesterfication Titration? How did you go about it? I got a reading of 9 I added the 3.5 to a total of 12.5 grams per liter. Mixed the methoxide 125 mil 125ml of methanol per litre of oil? Not nearly enough - the process uses about that amount (depending on the oil), but it needs an excess to push it towards completion, particularly with high FFA oils like the stuff you've found. Use 200ml per litre, at least, 220 would be better for that stuff, or even 250. dewatered the oil after cooling added the methoxide shook it over and over. Looked ok by what I have read but as it cooled It got thicker and thicker until a solid plastic bottle was shaming me. So back to the drawing board I found that the alcohol I used for testing was not pure only 70% so off to the store bought 99% the best available figured I would get a new red devil caustic soda just because it might do better. The next test came out to 11.25 + 3.5 = 14.5 dewatered the oil to the point of almost burning it. Added the methoxide shook for some time let it set and shook it more over and over this time I left it in a bucket of hot tap water so it wouldn't jell. After a few hours went back to -- glop slop glop. What am I doing wrong? I have read that more methanol is needed to push it over the edge. Is the extra methanol added to the methoxide or to the oil? Before the methoxide or after? Your main problem is that you're using very poor quality WVO. Very few newbies will have any luck trying to use such high titration oil. Even experienced biodieselers will have failures with 11.25 titration WVO, and even when they succeed the yield will be poor. You shouldn't start with WVO anyway, Start here, with virgin oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then you'll know what to expect. When you're familiar with that, move on to WVO, but, at least at first, find better oil! Something titrating at say 3.5ml or less would be more suitable for a novice. Give this whole page (two pages and more, with the links) a thorough read: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Make your own biodiesel Blenders are better than shaking it up in a bottle, or make one
[Biofuel] Speaking of glop
Hi All, After many successful batches made from vegetable oil ( both unused and heavily used) I decided it was time to try all beef lard. Perhaps I shouldn«t have used this method but I did anyway. I used Alex Kacs first stage (of two) method. After liquifying the lard, I added the required 1 ml of concentrated (98%) sulfuric acid at 35-37 degrees centigrade. While it was all stirring for the required time period, somewhere around the 20 minute mark it nearly all solidified. I checked the temperature. It was still within the required range. I ramped up the heat to about 55 degrees C. and it all liquified. Did I read something wrong or do something wrong? I wasn«t expecting solidification until I turned off the heat. I let it sit overnight, reheated to 55 C. the next day and performed the second stage base transesterification. It seemed to go well. I got good separation but upon washing I got the dreaded white layer (which I think is unreacted lard) between the BioD and the water later. Do I need to use more than 1 ml of sulfuric acid because I«m using all lard? Now Keith, I have been reading the archives but I seem to have missed something. Thanks in advance, Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 6:24 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] got glop (yup) Hi Derick, welcome Hi all I am new to this forum so if I step on some toes let me know. There are rules, which the Welcome message you were sent referred to: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html They're sensible enough, you shouldn't have any problems. I have been looking into the biodiesal for a few months now and there has been a lot of good articles. I have been printing them and studying them. I have now have a processing system I have built and it professional looking if I do say so. I got some feed stock from the local from the local slop shop. (Ill never eat there again. Yuck) No, don't eat there! What I did. First try transesterfication Titration? How did you go about it? I got a reading of 9 I added the 3.5 to a total of 12.5 grams per liter. Mixed the methoxide 125 mil 125ml of methanol per litre of oil? Not nearly enough - the process uses about that amount (depending on the oil), but it needs an excess to push it towards completion, particularly with high FFA oils like the stuff you've found. Use 200ml per litre, at least, 220 would be better for that stuff, or even 250. dewatered the oil after cooling added the methoxide shook it over and over. Looked ok by what I have read but as it cooled It got thicker and thicker until a solid plastic bottle was shaming me. So back to the drawing board I found that the alcohol I used for testing was not pure only 70% so off to the store bought 99% the best available figured I would get a new red devil caustic soda just because it might do better. The next test came out to 11.25 + 3.5 = 14.5 dewatered the oil to the point of almost burning it. Added the methoxide shook for some time let it set and shook it more over and over this time I left it in a bucket of hot tap water so it wouldn't jell. After a few hours went back to -- glop slop glop. What am I doing wrong? I have read that more methanol is needed to push it over the edge. Is the extra methanol added to the methoxide or to the oil? Before the methoxide or after? Your main problem is that you're using very poor quality WVO. Very few newbies will have any luck trying to use such high titration oil. Even experienced biodieselers will have failures with 11.25 titration WVO, and even when they succeed the yield will be poor. You shouldn't start with WVO anyway, Start here, with virgin oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then you'll know what to expect. When you're familiar with that, move on to WVO, but, at least at first, find better oil! Something titrating at say 3.5ml or less would be more suitable for a novice. Give this whole page (two pages and more, with the links) a thorough read: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Make your own biodiesel Blenders are better than shaking it up in a bottle, or make one of these: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Test-batch mini-processor Good luck! Let us know how you fare. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Speaking of glop
just for the records. Do you know if the beef lard ( tallow?) you used contained protein (meat)?. If so, how much (%)?. Tks, Mr. F.J. Burgos - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:16 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Speaking of glop Hi All, After many successful batches made from vegetable oil ( both unused and heavily used) I decided it was time to try all beef lard. Perhaps I shouldn«t have used this method but I did anyway. I used Alex Kacs first stage (of two) method. After liquifying the lard, I added the required 1 ml of concentrated (98%) sulfuric acid at 35-37 degrees centigrade. While it was all stirring for the required time period, somewhere around the 20 minute mark it nearly all solidified. I checked the temperature. It was still within the required range. I ramped up the heat to about 55 degrees C. and it all liquified. Did I read something wrong or do something wrong? I wasn«t expecting solidification until I turned off the heat. I let it sit overnight, reheated to 55 C. the next day and performed the second stage base transesterification. It seemed to go well. I got good separation but upon washing I got the dreaded white layer (which I think is unreacted lard) between the BioD and the water later. Do I need to use more than 1 ml of sulfuric acid because I«m using all lard? Now Keith, I have been reading the archives but I seem to have missed something. Thanks in advance, Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 9/04/05 6:24 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] got glop (yup) Hi Derick, welcome Hi all I am new to this forum so if I step on some toes let me know. There are rules, which the Welcome message you were sent referred to: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html They're sensible enough, you shouldn't have any problems. I have been looking into the biodiesal for a few months now and there has been a lot of good articles. I have been printing them and studying them. I have now have a processing system I have built and it professional looking if I do say so. I got some feed stock from the local from the local slop shop. (Ill never eat there again. Yuck) No, don't eat there! What I did. First try transesterfication Titration? How did you go about it? I got a reading of 9 I added the 3.5 to a total of 12.5 grams per liter. Mixed the methoxide 125 mil 125ml of methanol per litre of oil? Not nearly enough - the process uses about that amount (depending on the oil), but it needs an excess to push it towards completion, particularly with high FFA oils like the stuff you've found. Use 200ml per litre, at least, 220 would be better for that stuff, or even 250. dewatered the oil after cooling added the methoxide shook it over and over. Looked ok by what I have read but as it cooled It got thicker and thicker until a solid plastic bottle was shaming me. So back to the drawing board I found that the alcohol I used for testing was not pure only 70% so off to the store bought 99% the best available figured I would get a new red devil caustic soda just because it might do better. The next test came out to 11.25 + 3.5 = 14.5 dewatered the oil to the point of almost burning it. Added the methoxide shook for some time let it set and shook it more over and over this time I left it in a bucket of hot tap water so it wouldn't jell. After a few hours went back to -- glop slop glop. What am I doing wrong? I have read that more methanol is needed to push it over the edge. Is the extra methanol added to the methoxide or to the oil? Before the methoxide or after? Your main problem is that you're using very poor quality WVO. Very few newbies will have any luck trying to use such high titration oil. Even experienced biodieselers will have failures with 11.25 titration WVO, and even when they succeed the yield will be poor. You shouldn't start with WVO anyway, Start here, with virgin oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Then you'll know what to expect. When you're familiar with that, move on to WVO, but, at least at first, find better oil! Something titrating at say 3.5ml or less would be more suitable for a novice. Give this whole page (two pages and more, with the links) a thorough read: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Make your own biodiesel Blenders are better than shaking it up in a bottle, or make one of these: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Test-batch mini-processor Good luck! Let us know how you fare. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup
