Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
For quite sometime I have felt the fairest way to charge for internet access, by the amount of data the internet transports on behalf of the user. That would crimp the style of commercial email, cause some to rethink their need to send cutesy html formatted email and large attachments to everyone. Why should low volume users subsidize those who feel they need receive TV programs and movies via the internet? Yes; users of this list may have to pay a subscription fee or hope advertising would underwrite the costs. The concept of free has gotten out of hand on the part of internet users, so has the concept of maximum profit on the part of the corporations. I guess we can always dust off the LL modems and bbs software, but who's going to pay the costs of operating those? As Joe mentioned the hams could resurrect the packet radio net work here in the U. S., I think it's still strong in those countries where the internet has been expensive. I really don't have much to say about the privacy and other issues brought up in the article. Doug, N0LKK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
What SBC is asking is not for (just) end users to pay for the BW they use. Its for Google, Yahoo and the likes to pay for the BW that SBC users use FROM them. IE they want the phone standards applies to IP networks and that is just plain wrong to force on people after the fact. All phone companies have a fund where they pay for terminating a phone call, at the end of a billing cycle they settle up that fund. Say I call you. I pay $.05/min for the long distance call. My telephone company has to pay yours for terminating the call on their network. Thats all fine for phone standards, its part of what keeps the base phone (no LD, Call Waiting, Caller ID, Voice Mail, ect) at $40/mo. No I have no option here except for LD from other carriers ON TOP of the base charge. With the current IP networks and the method used for selling bandwidth this is a evil wrong way to do things. Google, Yahoo and the likes already pay SBC for the OC-3, OC-12 and ect lines that they use to reach SBC users. SBC wants to tax them on top of this, not sell them new lines under this idea. There are places that you can buy BW and pay $/GB of transfer. That is still not the same as what SBC wants to do! SBC wants money from the end user ($15/mo for dsl) AND $/per ip connection to [insert.tld.here] AND to charge [insert.tld.here] the same for their OC-XX lines. If SBC only wanted to charge a FAIR amount for GB transfered that would be fine by me as long as its less then the $2/gb I get to pay now for a 2x45mbit pipe. There is more evil in SBC and this idea of per transaction fees then is being seen. They want cause to track what you do, who you do it with and to charge both people (even those NOT being SBC customers) for doing it. Hey it worked in the phone arena for 50+ years while Ma Bell was a monster monopoly and it will work again right? Jeromie Reeves Doug Younker wrote: For quite sometime I have felt the fairest way to charge for internet access, by the amount of data the internet transports on behalf of the user. That would crimp the style of commercial email, cause some to rethink their need to send cutesy html formatted email and large attachments to everyone. Why should low volume users subsidize those who feel they need receive TV programs and movies via the internet? Yes; users of this list may have to pay a subscription fee or hope advertising would underwrite the costs. The concept of free has gotten out of hand on the part of internet users, so has the concept of maximum profit on the part of the corporations. I guess we can always dust off the LL modems and bbs software, but who's going to pay the costs of operating those? As Joe mentioned the hams could resurrect the packet radio net work here in the U. S., I think it's still strong in those countries where the internet has been expensive. I really don't have much to say about the privacy and other issues brought up in the article. Doug, N0LKK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
What are people who make there own biodiesel? I would think of them along the same mentality as the original hackers. Loosely put, people who were not happy with the status quo and decided to take matters into their own hands. Jeromie Reeves Chandan Haldar wrote: Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I make my own biodiesel using the waste oil of french fries from the city. I have my own factory so I am free to use the facilities. Usual batch is 400 liters. I do not claim that my quality is premium, but have improved over the months. And is very cheap too, my cost is below 20 cents a gallon. I will start to experiment with the E85 soon for the other vehicles. Andres - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet What are people who make there own biodiesel? I would think of them along the same mentality as the original hackers. Loosely put, people who were not happy with the status quo and decided to take matters into their own hands. Jeromie Reeves Chandan Haldar wrote: Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Funny when you think that the internet all started with DARPA Mike McGinness Evergreen Solutions wrote: I just wanted to chime in very quickly about the hacker mentality and ethic. In theory, hackers hack to make things better. Security, speed, effeciency, clock cycles, whatever. I just heard a story on NPR tonight about prius hackers who have doubled the effeciency of their Prius's by adding additional batteries and a plug-in. I'm digressing.. Red boxes, blue boxes, tron boxes...home cable descramblers...it's a rocky path. I used to use a red box while I was away at college to call my friends, still have about 6 of them, haha. When radio shack stopped selling tone dialers I bought all their remaining stock. I did it because I was poor, and stealing from the man seemed legitimate. The man had lots of money, and was so automated he couldn't tell the difference between a quarter and the tone I generated. We experimented with one of the boxes that prevents the line voltage from dropping when you pick up a call too, although our use was to prevent telemarketers from being able to hang up. I've recently done a lot of thinking about how FEW people do the thinking for SO MANY. From law makers to engineers, whatever. However, with people like the EFF (electronic frontier foundation) floating around, I don't believe that we're in true danger of losing our internet, per se. If anything, I see it becoming LESS centralized, and LESS controlled. The MPAA/RIAA are fighting a losing battle against a community that's consistently outpacing them in terms of privacy and anonymity. To a google search on Tor, I use it personally. The main point for me I guess is that the fattest pipes out there are NOT on american soil, and the technology is NOT american. I don't doubt anyone's desire to inflict greater control or profit margin on American internet access, I just don't see it happening any time soon. True privacy on the internet is a fallacy anyway, but not even Google will listen to the government telling it not to put satellite imagery of bases, etc, up free on googleearth. Pakistan and India are suingbut...who? It takes about 6 months for a pharmacy lab to learn to copy someone else's drug. It took 72 hours to break the DRM on iTunes. It took 24 hours to break the ultimately encrypted dvd encryption. It took 12 hours to break Arista's new CD protection scheme. It took 6 hours to break sony's illegal DRM. Fear not fellow subverts, the underground will keep us safe. Sort of. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
GNU Emacs has this nice little diversion in its mail handling facility: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/Mail-Amusements.html#Mail-Amusements Some samples of what it can automatically add to the end of a mail is at the end of this mail. Joe, sorry to disappoint uncle S, but I didn't write that and I don't live in patriot act territory either. The bottomline is as Keith has summarized nicely already. A good way of looking at the post-modern hacker community is as the IT dept of the second superpower. May the force be with them. :-) Cheers. Chandan unclassified Roswell Indigo FSF kilo class bce Comirex Steve Case SWAT clones ANDVT explosion Aldergrove S Key S Box JFK BATF passwd MD5 Crypto AG Jiang Zemin ANDVT Craig Livingstone Juiliett Class Submarine JPL Chobetsu CIDA Ortega explosion high security AGT. AMME industrial intelligence UOP jihad broadside COSCO Comirex sniper ISEC militia offensive information warfare Ceridian bootleg JSOFC3IP government ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I must quickly add that I didn't mean to suggest using Emacs for email. It was a great mail env once for text based email, but probably won't be suitable for normal email usage today (with html, graphics, attachments, etc). Chandan Chandan Haldar wrote: GNU Emacs has this nice little diversion in its mail handling facility: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/Mail-Amusements.html#Mail-Amusements Some samples of what it can automatically add to the end of a mail is at the end of this mail. Joe, sorry to disappoint uncle S, but I didn't write that and I don't live in patriot act territory either. The bottomline is as Keith has summarized nicely already. A good way of looking at the post-modern hacker community is as the IT dept of the second superpower. May the force be with them. :-) Cheers. Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Whoa Chandan!That looked like legitimate spy talk (like I know what I'm talking about)....you still there? If you are, smile for the itty bitty camera.:-)MikeChandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GNU Emacs has this nice little diversion in its mail handling facility:http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/Mail-Amusements.html#Mail-AmusementsSome samples of what it can automatically add to the end of a mail is at the end of this mail. Joe, sorry to disappoint uncle S, but I didn't write that and I don't live in patriot act territory either.The bottomline is as Keith has summarized nicely already. A good way of looking at the post-modern hacker community is as the IT dept of the second superpower. May the force be with them. :-)Cheers.Chandanunclassified Roswell Indigo FSF kilo class bce Comirex Steve Case SWATclones ANDVT explosion Aldergrove S Key S BoxJFK BATF passwd MD5 Crypto AG Jiang Zemin ANDVT Craig LivingstoneJuiliett Class Submarine JPL Chobetsu CIDA Ortega explosion highsecurityAGT. AMME industrial intelligence UOP jihad broadside COSCO Comirexsniper ISEC militia offensive information warfare Ceridian bootlegJSOFC3IP government___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
ROFL ROFL I'm not sure it will be appreciated as an addition to the archives but if you just want a couple of subversive keywords to revolve the wheels of the big machines a little further why don't you try some of theseand don't forget to set your mailer to send once per minute! Rewson, SAFE, Waihopai, INFOSEC, ASPIC, MI6, Information Security, SAI, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Privacy, Information Terrorism, Terrorism Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive Information, Offensive Information Warfare, The Artful Dodger, NAIA, SAPM, ASU, ASTS, National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, SAO, Reno, Compsec, JICS, Computer Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, RSP, ISS, JDF, Ermes, Passwords, NAAP, DefCon V, RSO, Hackers, Encryption, ASWS, CUN, CISU, CUSI, M.A.R.E., MARE, UFO, IFO, Pacini, Angela, Espionage, USDOJ, NSA, CIA, S/Key, SSL, FBI, Secert Service, USSS, Defcon, Military, White House, Undercover, NCCS, Mayfly, PGP, SALDV, PEM, resta, RSA, Perl-RSA, MSNBC, bet, AOL, AOL TOS, CIS, CBOT, AIMSX, STARLAN, 3B2, BITNET, SAMU, COSMOS, DATTA, Furbys, E911, FCIC, HTCIA, IACIS, UT/RUS, JANET, ram, JICC, ReMOB, LEETAC, UTU, VNET, BRLO, SADCC, NSLEP, SACLANTCEN, FALN, 877, NAVELEXSYSSECENGCEN, BZ, CANSLO, CBNRC, CIDA, JAVA, rsta, Active X, Compsec 97, RENS, LLC, DERA, JIC, rip, rb, Wu, RDI, Mavricks, BIOL, Meta-hackers, ^?, SADT, Steve Case, Tools, RECCEX, Telex, Aldergrove, OTAN, monarchist, NMIC, NIOG, IDB, MID/KL, NADIS, NMI, SEIDM, BNC, CNCIS, STEEPLEBUSH, RG, BSS, DDIS, mixmaster, BCCI, BRGE, Europol, SARL, Military Intelligence, JICA, Scully, recondo, Flame, Infowar, FRU, Bubba, Freeh, Archives, ISADC, CISSP, Sundevil, jack, Investigation, JOTS, ISACA, NCSA, ASVC, spook words, RRF, 1071, Bugs Bunny, Verisign, Secure, ASIO, Lebed, ICE, NRO, Lexis-Nexis, NSCT, SCIF, FLiR, JIC, bce, Lacrosse, Flashbangs, HRT, IRA, EODG, DIA, USCOI, CID, BOP, FINCEN, FLETC, NIJ, ACC, AFSPC, BMDO, site, SASSTIXS, NAVWAN, NRL, RL, NAVWCWPNS, NSWC, USAFA, AHPCRC, ARPA, SARD, LABLINK, USACIL, SAPT, USCG, NRC, ~, O, NSA/CSS, CDC, DOE, SAAM, FMS, HPCC, NTIS, SEL, USCODE, CISE, SIRC, CIM, ISN, DJC, LLNL, bemd, SGC, UNCPCJ, CFC, SABENA, DREO, CDA, SADRS, DRA, SHAPE, bird dog, SACLANT, BECCA, DCJFTF, HALO, SC, TA SAS, Lander, GSM, T Branch, AST, SAMCOMM, HAHO, FKS, 868, GCHQ, DITSA, SORT, AMEMB, NSG, HIC, EDI, benelux, SAS, SBS, SAW, UDT, EODC, GOE, DOE, SAMF, GEO, JRB, 3P-HV, Masuda, Forte, AT, GIGN, Exon Shell, radint, MB, CQB, TECS, CONUS, CTU, RCMP, GRU, SASR, GSG-9, 22nd SAS, GEOS, EADA, SART, BBE, STEP, Echelon, Dictionary, MD2, MD4, MDA, diwn, 747, ASIC, 777, RDI, 767, MI5, 737, MI6, 757, Kh-11, EODN, SHS, ^X, Shayet-13, SADMS, Spetznaz, Recce, 707, CIO, NOCS, Halcon, NSS, Duress, RAID, Uziel, wojo, Psyops, SASCOM, grom, NSIRL, D-11, DF, ZARK, SERT, VIP, ARC, S.E.T. Team, NSWG, MP5k, SATKA, DREC, DEVGRP, DSD, FDM, GRU, LRTS, SIGDEV, NACSI, MEU/SOC,PSAC, PTT, RFI, ZL31, SIGDASYS, TDM. SUKLO, Schengen, SUSLO, TELINT, fake, TEXTA. ELF, LF, MF, Mafia, JASSM, CALCM, TLAM, Wipeout, GII, SIW, MEII, C2W, Burns, Ufologico Nazionale, Centro, CICAP, MIR, Belknap, Tac, rebels, BLU-97 A/B, 007, nowhere.ch, bronze, Rubin, Arnett, BLU, SIGS, VHF, Recon, peapod, PA598D28, Spall, dort, 50MZ, 11Emc Choe, SATCOMA, UHF, The Hague, SHF, ASIO, SASP, WANK, Colonel, domestic disruption, 5ESS, smuggle, Z-200, 15kg, DUVDEVAN, RFX, nitrate, OIR, Pretoria, M-14, enigma, Bletchley Park, Clandestine, NSO, nkvd, argus, afsatcom, CQB, NVD, Counter Terrorism Security, Enemy of the State, SARA, Rapid Reaction, JSOFC3IP, Corporate Security, 192.47.242.7, Baldwin, Wilma, ie.org, cospo.osis.gov, Tyrell, KMI, 1ee, Pod, 9705 Samford Road, 20755-6000, sniper, PPS, ASIS, ASLET, TSCM, Security Consulting, M-x spook, Z-150T, Steak Knife, High Security, Security Evaluation, Electronic Surveillance, MI-17, ISR, NSAS, Counterterrorism, real, spies, IWO, eavesdropping, debugging, CCSS, interception, COCOT, NACSI, rhost, rhosts, ASO, SETA, Amherst, Broadside, Capricorn, NAVCM, Gamma, Gorizont, Guppy, NSS, rita, ISSO, submiss, ASDIC, .tc, 2EME REP, FID, 7NL SBS, tekka, captain, 226, .45, nonac, .li, Tony Poe, MJ-12, JASON, Society, Hmong, Majic, evil, zipgun, tax, bootleg, warez, TRV, ERV, rednoise, mindwar, nailbomb, VLF, ULF, Paperclip, Chatter, MKULTRA, MKDELTA, Bluebird, MKNAOMI, White Yankee, MKSEARCH, 355 ML, Adriatic, Goldman, Ionosphere, Mole, Keyhole, NABS, Kilderkin, Artichoke, Badger, Emerson, Tzvrif, SDIS, T2S2, STTC, DNR, NADDIS, NFLIS, CFD, BLU-114/B, quarter, Cornflower, Daisy, Egret, Iris, JSOTF, Hollyhock, Jasmine, Juile, Vinnell, B.D.M., Sphinx, Stephanie, Reflection, Spoke, Talent, Trump, FX, FXR, IMF, POCSAG, rusers, Covert Video, Intiso, r00t, lock picking, Beyond Hope, LASINT, csystems, .tm, passwd, 2600 Magazine, JUWTF, Competitor, EO, Chan, Pathfinders, SEAL Team 3, JTF, Nash, ISSAA, B61-11, Alouette, executive, Event Security, Mace, Cap-Stun, stakeout, ninja, ASIS, ISA, EOD, Oscor, Tarawa, COSMOS-2224,
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. Pirates are of a totally different breed then hackers or crackers. They are thief plain and simple. I agree that the current media distribution model/method is very outdated, that does not mean taking something that you did not pay for is not theft. Same goes for a individual that phishes you and you hand over you CC. They are a Phisher, they might be a hacker (no crime related to hacking) and most likely a cracker (cloning that CC# onto a existing card). The EFF will uphold the rights of the `net so long as the net HAS those rights. If your ISP changed its business model to one like that of the power or water companies (base bill of $19 for my commercial building, .0859/KwH) then you have to pay it or stop being there customer. Is your town like a lot of America with just 1 DSL and 1 Cable provider? Dialup is not even a option really as it would go purely by hourly use as it has been trying for years . Satellite? 3000ms latency will sure let you do VoIP and Gaming. Lets not forget they are already use based and drop your speeds to 28.8 up and down after you pass your allotment. Fixed terrestrial wireless is the only option that is cheap and fast enough to deploy. Fiber is nice but is going to be owned 99% by the larger Telco's. It is becoming easier and easier for companies to steal others intellectual property. I think that companies should get rights to there IP for 10 years then it becomes public domain. This would keep people thinking of new ideas and let the mass market production machine kick in with real products instead of fakes (this also means we have stiff penalties for those making fakes). Its like the EPA laws, a company can dump waste and save $5,000,000 and gets fined $25,000 for doing it! The companies who do this need to have 100% of there income removed, all debts paid and all management put out on the street with not a penny. Jeromie Reeves Evergreen Solutions wrote: I just wanted to chime in very quickly about the hacker mentality and ethic. In theory, hackers hack to make things better. Security, speed, effeciency, clock cycles, whatever. I just heard a story on NPR tonight about prius hackers who have doubled the effeciency of their Prius's by adding additional batteries and a plug-in. I'm digressing.. Red boxes, blue boxes, tron boxes...home cable descramblers...it's a rocky path. I used to use a red box while I was away at college to call my friends, still have about 6 of them, haha. When radio shack stopped selling tone dialers I bought all their remaining stock. I did it because I was poor, and stealing from the man seemed legitimate. The man had lots of money, and was so automated he couldn't tell the difference between a quarter and the tone I generated. We experimented with one of the boxes that prevents the line voltage from dropping when you pick up a call too, although our use was to prevent telemarketers from being able to hang up. I've recently done a lot of thinking about how FEW people do the thinking for SO MANY. From law makers to engineers, whatever. However, with people like the EFF (electronic frontier foundation) floating around, I don't believe that we're in true danger of losing our internet, per se. If anything, I see it becoming LESS centralized, and LESS controlled. The MPAA/RIAA are fighting a losing battle against a community that's consistently outpacing them in terms of privacy and anonymity. To a google search on Tor, I use it personally. The main point for me I guess is that the fattest pipes out there are NOT on american soil, and the technology is NOT american. I don't doubt anyone's desire to inflict greater control or profit margin on American internet access, I just don't see it happening any time soon. True privacy on the internet is a fallacy anyway, but not even Google will listen to the government telling it not to put satellite imagery of bases, etc, up free on googleearth. Pakistan and India are suingbut...who? It takes about 6 months for a pharmacy lab to learn to copy someone else's drug. It took 72 hours to break the DRM on iTunes. It took 24 hours to break the ultimately encrypted dvd encryption. It took 12 hours to break Arista's new CD protection scheme. It took 6 hours to break sony's illegal DRM. Fear not fellow subverts, the underground will keep us safe. Sort of. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Joe Street wrote: ROFL ROFL Aldergrove? I used to live there. It's a town full of single moms on welfare who move from one relationship with a no-good guy to the next. What's so subversive about Aldergrove? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Yes, on behalf of government agencies and universities. The original internet. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert luis rabello Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet John Mullan wrote: I don't like the flimsy excuse give by that Telecom guy why should they use our pipes for free. Wasn't all of that infrastructure built on the backs of rate payers anyway? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Here's the 'Hacker' entry in Eric Raymond's The Hackers Dictionary (aka the jargon file): http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.html Having been deep in that world for a while now, I see today's hacker community as a highly heterogeneous community with a variety of views revolving around knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights (primarily as these relate to software and systems, but hey, "freedom" frequently looks similar in different contexts, and "bio-diesel hacker" should be a very honorable description for someone making bio-diesel and thus defending one's freedom to not use fossil fuel). Notice that the sense of "malicious meddler" for "hacker" has been deprecated (obsolete) and demoted to 8th place in the THD entry for hacker (but retained for historical reasons). So the rogue elements are not really part of the hacker community. THD is maintained by "hackers", so this can be considered a self-fulfilling assessment. Our definition of the hacker community can be as loose as we want, but as long as the basic elements of knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights are included in it, it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). Hakuna matata. Chandan Michael Redler wrote: ... "Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?)" I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy)can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world. The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. "sticking it to the 'man'"), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpoweris somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups. One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Good point Chandan.I guess I'm a hacker too.MikeChandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the 'Hacker' entry in Eric Raymond's The Hackers Dictionary (aka the jargon file):http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.htmlHaving been deep in that world for a while now, I see today's hacker community as a highly heterogeneous community with a variety of views revolving around knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights (primarily as these relate to software and systems, but hey, "freedom" frequently looks similar in different contexts, and "bio-diesel hacker" should be a very honorable description for someone making bio-diesel and thus defending one's freedom to not use fossil fuel).Notice that the sense of "malicious meddler" for "hacker" has been deprecated (obsolete) and demoted to 8th place in the THD entry for hacker (but retained for historical reasons). So the rogue elements are not really part of the hacker community. THD is maintained by "hackers", so this can be considered a self-fulfilling assessment. Our definition of the hacker community can be as loose as we want, but as long as the basic elements of knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights are included in it, it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). Hakuna matata.ChandanMichael Redler wrote: ... "Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?)" I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy)can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world.The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. "sticking it to the 'man'"), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpoweris somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups.One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets.Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Easy big fella. You may be in violation of the patriot act with that admission! What are your coordinates. Joe Michael Redler wrote: Good point Chandan. I guess I'm a hacker too. Mike Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the 'Hacker' entry in Eric Raymond's The Hackers Dictionary (aka the jargon file): http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.html Having been deep in that world for a while now, I see today's hacker community as a highly heterogeneous community with a variety of views revolving around knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights (primarily as these relate to software and systems, but hey, "freedom" frequently looks similar in different contexts, and "bio-diesel hacker" should be a very honorable description for someone making bio-diesel and thus defending one's freedom to not use fossil fuel). Notice that the sense of "malicious meddler" for "hacker" has been deprecated (obsolete) and demoted to 8th place in the THD entry for hacker (but retained for historical reasons). So the rogue elements are not really part of the hacker community. THD is maintained by "hackers", so this can be considered a self-fulfilling assessment. Our definition of the hacker community can be as loose as we want, but as long as the basic elements of knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights are included in it, it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). Hakuna matata. Chandan Michael Redler wrote: ... "Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?)" I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy)can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world. The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. "sticking it to the 'man'"), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpoweris somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups. One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Hey, I heard that the secret service filters words from email traffic and may categorize you based on the content of your messages. So,in the spirit of domestic spying...Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Infidel InfidelInfidel InfidelInfidel InfidelInfidel InfidelFried, green tomatoes! Rock'em, Sock'em Robots We all live in a Yellow Submarine!!There, that's get'em goin':-)Mike Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Easy big fella. You may be in violation of the patriot act with that admission!What are your coordinates.JoeMichael Redler wrote:Good point Chandan.I guess I'm a hacker too.MikeChandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the 'Hacker' entry in Eric Raymond's The Hackers Dictionary (aka the jargon file):http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.htmlHaving been deep in that world for a while now, I see today's hacker community as a highly heterogeneous community with a variety of views revolving around knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights (primarily as these relate to software and systems, but hey, "freedom" frequently looks similar in different contexts, and "bio-diesel hacker" should be a very honorable description for someone making bio-diesel and thus defending one's freedom to not use fossil fuel).Notice that the sense of "malicious meddler" for "hacker" has been deprecated (obsolete) and demoted to 8th place in the THD entry for hacker (but retained for historical reasons). So the rogue elements are not really part of the hacker community. THD is maintained by "hackers", so this can be considered a self-fulfilling assessment. Our definition of the hacker community can be as loose as we want, but as long as the basic elements of knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights are included in it, it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). Hakuna matata.ChandanMichael Redler wrote: ... "Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?)" I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy)can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world.The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. "sticking it to the 'man'"), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpoweris somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups.One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets.Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Hello Chandan Here's the 'Hacker' entry in Eric Raymond's The Hackers Dictionary (aka the jargon file): http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.htmlhttp://www.catb.o rg/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.html Having been deep in that world for a while now, I see today's hacker community as a highly heterogeneous community with a variety of views revolving around knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights (primarily as these relate to software and systems, but hey, freedom frequently looks similar in different contexts, and bio-diesel hacker should be a very honorable description for someone making bio-diesel and thus defending one's freedom to not use fossil fuel). Good! Notice that the sense of malicious meddler for hacker has been deprecated (obsolete) and demoted to 8th place in the THD entry for hacker (but retained for historical reasons). So the rogue elements are not really part of the hacker community. THD is maintained by hackers, so this can be considered a self-fulfilling assessment. Our definition of the hacker community can be as loose as we want, but as long as the basic elements of knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights are included in it, it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). Hakuna matata. Chandan Nicely put, Chandan. Re malicious meddler though, I think that's still the public perception, bit of wishful thinking Raymond's placing it 8th. It's one of the reasons he published the hard-copy version of The New Hackers Dictionary. One of my major objectives in seeing the Jargon File published on paper is to help the general public to get a truer and more positive image of hackers than they seem to have now. ... it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. Other than the tools they use. The CIA and other national equivalents, the military, the corporate sector, their servants in the PR sector (eg Bivings), and I'm sure I've missed a few, all use people with these skills using these tools, but I'd agree that's where the similarity ends. The Biofuel list was attacked by hackers of the establishment ilk a couple of years ago when we were still at Yahoo. They almost succeeded in destroying it, which was certainly the aim. It was quite clear what had happened and why. They left a trail, possibly intentionally, but they made some mistakes as well, they were overconfident, and we managed to save the list as a result (well, we'd taken some precautions too). Totally thuggish behaviour, ugly people. (I don't want to say any more about it than that right now so please don't ask for details.) If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). That's much my feeling, from what I know of them. Your confidence is reassuring. Thanks for the term post-modern hacker community, and for the distinction. I certainly agree that they're a part of the other superpower, a most important part considering how vital the Internet is to the coherence of the movement, and to its effectiveness. I agree with the without fail bit too, I'd back them against the corps and the CIA any time. Best Keith Hakuna matata. Michael Redler wrote: ... Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?) I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy) can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world. The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. sticking it to the 'man'), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpower is somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups. One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Hello Mike Keith, Your last paragraph really jumped out at me for two reasons: Except that the Internet keeps growing and spreading and getting faster and better and ever more firmly rooted in all our societies. These are some of the most encouraging words I've read in a while on this subject. I always wanted to believe it. I had the information to back a position on it but, what I really like is when there is consensus on it. I also like that. :-) But indeed the information is there to back it. Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?) I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy) can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world. Most interesting, both in the similarities and in the differences. I also find it interesting that it seems to behave almost like a sort of collective biological organism as well in some ways at least. With viruses and immunity, for an obvious example. The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. sticking it to the 'man'), feel a sense of community and pride. A paper about hackers by Dorothy E. Denning of Digital Equipment Corp., presented at the 13th National Computer Security Conference in 1990, said: A diffuse group of people often called hackers has been characterized as unethical, irresponsible, and a serious danger to society for actions related to breaking into computer systems. This paper attempts to construct a picture of hackers, their concerns, and the discourse in which hacking takes place. My initial findings suggest that hackers are learners and explorers who want to help rather than cause damage, and who often have very high standards of behavior. My findings also suggest that the discourse surrounding hacking belongs at the very least to the gray areas between larger conflicts that we are experiencing at every level of society and business in an information age where many are not computer literate. These conflicts are between the idea that information cannot be owned and the idea that it can, and between law enforcement and the First and Fourth Amendments. Hackers have raised serious issues about values and practices in an information society Just about anyone who investigates hackers seriously comes to similar conclusions. But you don't see people saying stuff like that about spooks too often. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpower is somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups. They do, but I think they're much more interesting than that, and looking at it that way might obscure the view. For instance, many of them are anarchists. One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets. I investigated the hacker community about 12 years ago when I was asked to write an article about a New York hacker named Phiber Optik (Mark Abene) who'd just got out of jail. I found a lot of good background stuff and managed to track him down, but he wouldn't talk to anyone right then. I came across some other people I knew about too, such as John Draper, aka the great Captain Crunch. It was Captain Crunch and his Blue Box that put hackers (fone phreaks) on the map in the first place with a famous article published by Esquire in October 1971, Secrets of the Little Blue Box by Ron Rosenbaum. I remembered him from reading the Esquire article at the time. He told me he really hated the article, he said it was all wrong. It amused me though that he didn't have a copy of it, and asked me to send it to him, which I did. You can find it here, it's a good read (16,000 words total): http://www.totse.com/en/phreak/phone_phun/phrkman.html totse.com | The Offical Phreakers Manual v1.1, 1987 II.1 033 Secrets of the Little Blue Box. Part 1 II.2 041 Secrets of the Little Blue Box. Part 2 II.3 050 Secrets of the Little Blue Box. Part 3 II.4 058 Secrets of the Little Blue Box. Part 4 Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs and others were also involved in all this, on the fringes. Captain Crunch worked for them later at Apple, he wrote EasyWriter, the first word processor for the Apple II. It was a perfect coding environment, coding in jail, he said. LOL! Actually he met Wozniak et al via the Esquire article, so he shouldn't complain too much. Captain Crunch also built things like the Tron Box, which makes your electricity meter go backwards. It works, I've seen a Tron Box making an
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
and a bomb, bomb IED suicide osama hate to you too. Michael Redler wrote: Hey, I heard that the secret service filters words from email traffic and may categorize you based on the content of your messages. So, in the spirit of domestic spying... Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Jihad Infidel Infidel Infidel Infidel Infidel Infidel Infidel Infidel Fried, green tomatoes! Rock'em, Sock'em Robots We all live in a Yellow Submarine!! /There, that's get'em goin'/ :-) Mike */Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Easy big fella. You may be in violation of the patriot act with that admission! What are your coordinates. Joe Michael Redler wrote: Good point Chandan. I guess I'm a hacker too. Mike */Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Here's the 'Hacker' entry in Eric Raymond's The Hackers Dictionary (aka the jargon file): http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.html Having been deep in that world for a while now, I see today's hacker community as a highly heterogeneous community with a variety of views revolving around knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights (primarily as these relate to software and systems, but hey, freedom frequently looks similar in different contexts, and bio-diesel hacker should be a very honorable description for someone making bio-diesel and thus defending one's freedom to not use fossil fuel). Notice that the sense of malicious meddler for hacker has been deprecated (obsolete) and demoted to 8th place in the THD entry for hacker (but retained for historical reasons). So the rogue elements are not really part of the hacker community. THD is maintained by hackers, so this can be considered a self-fulfilling assessment. Our definition of the hacker community can be as loose as we want, but as long as the basic elements of knowledge, creativity, freedom, and individual rights are included in it, it should be very hard to find similarities between the post-modern hacker community with a beast like the CIA. If anyone tries to throttle the internet to death, the hacker community will create workarounds quickly and without fail (an instance of the second superpower defending itself against unprovoked aggression). Hakuna matata. Chandan Michael Redler wrote: ... */Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?) /* I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy) can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world. The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. sticking it to the 'man'), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpower is somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups. One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I just wanted to chime in very quickly about the hacker mentality and ethic. In theory, hackers hack to make things better. Security, speed, effeciency, clock cycles, whatever. I just heard a story on NPR tonight about prius hackers who have doubled the effeciency of their Prius's by adding additional batteries and a plug-in. I'm digressing.. Red boxes, blue boxes, tron boxes...home cable descramblers...it's a rocky path. I used to use a red box while I was away at college to call my friends, still have about 6 of them, haha. When radio shack stopped selling tone dialers I bought all their remaining stock. I did it because I was poor, and stealing from the man seemed legitimate. The man had lots of money, and was so automated he couldn't tell the difference between a quarter and the tone I generated. We experimented with one of the boxes that prevents the line voltage from dropping when you pick up a call too, although our use was to prevent telemarketers from being able to hang up. I've recently done a lot of thinking about how FEW people do the thinking for SO MANY. From law makers to engineers, whatever. However, with people like the EFF (electronic frontier foundation) floating around, I don't believe that we're in true danger of losing our internet, per se. If anything, I see it becoming LESS centralized, and LESS controlled. The MPAA/RIAA are fighting a losing battle against a community that's consistently outpacing them in terms of privacy and anonymity. To a google search on Tor, I use it personally. The main point for me I guess is that the fattest pipes out there are NOT on american soil, and the technology is NOT american. I don't doubt anyone's desire to inflict greater control or profit margin on American internet access, I just don't see it happening any time soon. True privacy on the internet is a fallacy anyway, but not even Google will listen to the government telling it not to put satellite imagery of bases, etc, up free on googleearth. Pakistan and India are suingbut...who? It takes about 6 months for a pharmacy lab to learn to copy someone else's drug. It took 72 hours to break the DRM on iTunes. It took 24 hours to break the ultimately encrypted dvd encryption. It took 12 hours to break Arista's new CD protection scheme. It took 6 hours to break sony's illegal DRM. Fear not fellow subverts, the underground will keep us safe. Sort of. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The End of the Internet
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/ The End of the Internet By Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006. America's big phone and cable companies want to start charging exorbitant user fees for the supposedly-free internet. The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online. Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets -- corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers -- would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out. Under the plans they are considering, all of us -- from content providers to individual users -- would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing platinum, gold and silver levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. To make this pay-to-play vision a reality, phone and cable lobbyists are now engaged in a political campaign to further weaken the nation's communications policy laws. They want the federal government to permit them to operate Internet and other digital communications services as private networks, free of policy safeguards or governmental oversight. Indeed, both the Congress and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) are considering proposals that will have far-reaching impact on the Internet's future. Ten years after passage of the ill-advised Telecommunications Act of 1996, telephone and cable companies are using the same political snake oil to convince compromised or clueless lawmakers to subvert the Internet into a turbo-charged digital retail machine. The telephone industry has been somewhat more candid than the cable industry about its strategy for the Internet's future. Senior phone executives have publicly discussed plans to begin imposing a new scheme for the delivery of Internet content, especially from major Internet content companies. As Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of ATT, told Business Week in November, Why should they be allowed to use my pipes? The Internet can't be free in that sense, because we and the cable companies have made an investment, and for a Google or Yahoo! or Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes [for] free is nuts! The phone industry has marshaled its political allies to help win the freedom to impose this new broadband business model. At a recent conference held by the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a think tank funded by Comcast, Verizon, ATT and other media companies, there was much discussion of a plan for phone companies to impose fees on a sliding scale, charging content providers different levels of service. Price discrimination, noted PFF's resident media expert Adam Thierer, drives the market-based capitalist economy. Net Neutrality To ward off the prospect of virtual toll booths on the information highway, some new media companies and public-interest groups are calling for new federal policies requiring network neutrality on the Internet. Common Cause, Amazon, Google, Free Press, Media Access Project and Consumers Union, among others, have proposed that broadband providers would be prohibited from discriminating against all forms of digital content. For example, phone or cable companies would not be allowed to slow down competing or undesirable content. Without proactive intervention, the values and issues that we care about -- civil rights, economic justice, the environment and fair elections -- will be further threatened by this push for corporate control. Imagine how the next presidential election would unfold if major political advertisers could make strategic payments to Comcast so that ads from Democratic and Republican candidates were more visible and user-friendly than ads of third-party candidates with less funds. Consider what would happen if an online advertisement promoting nuclear power prominently popped up on a cable broadband page, while a competing message from an environmental group was relegated to the margins. It is possible that all forms of civic and noncommercial online programming would be
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Keith,So, it seems as though the federal government (a.k.a.corporate America) is threatened bythe Second Superpower and is making preparations for war.MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/The End of the InternetBy Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006.America's big phone and cable companies want to start charging exorbitant user fees for the supposedly-free internet.The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online.Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency.According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets -- corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers -- would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out.Under the plans they are considering, all of us -- from content providers to individual users -- would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing "platinum," "gold" and "silver" levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received.To make this pay-to-play vision a reality, phone and cable lobbyists are now engaged in a political campaign to further weaken the nation's communications policy laws. They want the federal government to permit them to operate Internet and other digital communications services as private networks, free of policy safeguards or governmental oversight. Indeed, both the Congress and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) are considering proposals that will have far-reaching impact on the Internet's future. Ten years after passage of the ill-advised Telecommunications Act of 1996, telephone and cable companies are using the same political snake oil to convince compromised or clueless lawmakers to subvert the Internet into a turbo-charged digital retail machine.The telephone industry has been somewhat more candid than the cable industry about its strategy for the Internet's future. Senior phone executives have publicly discussed plans to begin imposing a new scheme for the delivery of Internet content, especially from major Internet content companies. As Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of ATT, told Business Week in November, "Why should they be allowed to use my pipes? The Internet can't be free in that sense, because we and the cable companies have made an investment, and for a Google or Yahoo! or Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes [for] free is nuts!"The phone industry has marshaled its political allies to help win the freedom to impose this new broadband business model. At a recent conference held by the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a think tank funded by Comcast, Verizon, ATT and other media companies, there was much discussion of a plan for phone companies to impose fees on a sliding scale, charging content providers different levels of service. "Price discrimination," noted PFF's resident media expert Adam Thierer, "drives the market-based capitalist economy."Net NeutralityTo ward off the prospect of virtual toll booths on the information highway, some new media companies and public-interest groups are calling for new federal policies requiring "network neutrality" on the Internet. Common Cause, Amazon, Google, Free Press, Media Access Project and Consumers Union, among others, have proposed that broadband providers would be prohibited from discriminating against all forms of digital content. For example, phone or cable companies would not be allowed to slow down competing or undesirable content.Without proactive intervention, the values and issues that we care about -- civil rights, economic justice, the environment and fair elections -- will be further threatened by this push for corporate control. Imagine how the next presidential election would unfold if major political advertisers could make strategic payments to Comcast so that ads from Democratic and Republican candidates were more visible and user-friendly than ads of third-party candidates with less funds.Consider what would happen if an online advertisement promoting nuclear power prominently popped up on a cable broadband page, while a competing message from an
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I found this interesting. Since I've been using my Window XP system some email threads have been deleted regarding global warming exchanges. One thread started to discuss one persons belief that one billion cows flatulent methane emissions were the cause of global warming. I thought this amusing. So I wrote something along the lines: With 6 billion people farting around spewing fossil energy out their chimneys, smokestacks and tailpipes you believe its the cows disrupting the climate ? http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/ The End of the Internet By Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Ok so we go wireless. The original idea for internet protocol came from packet radio which was an amateur radio thing. Granted the bandwidth was not to be compared but I can easily set up an ad hock net over several kilometers using a standard wireless adapter and a high gain antenna which is nothing more than a tin can pressed into service as a coaxial to waveguide transition feeding into the feedpoint on a surplus primestar satelite tv dish giving plenty of gain for a line of sight link over a fairly long haul with no amplifiers or anything other than what is on the card. A server centrally located and operating on an omidirectional antenna can serve many subscribers within a line of sight path using this scheme. Repeaters can be added to expand the network. Where there is a will there is a way. See here http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/Airport/Primestar/Primestar.html other useful network info here http://epanorama.net/links/tele_lan.html Joe Michael Redler wrote: Keith, So, it seems as though the federal government (a.k.a.corporate America) is threatened bythe Second Superpower and is making preparations for war. Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/ The End of the Internet By Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006. America's big phone and cable companies want to start charging exorbitant user fees for the supposedly-free internet. The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online. Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets -- corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers -- would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out. Under the plans they are considering, all of us -- from content providers to individual users -- would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing "platinum," "gold" and "silver" levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. To make this pay-to-play vision a reality, phone and cable lobbyists are now engaged in a political campaign to further weaken the nation's communications policy laws. They want the federal government to permit them to operate Internet and other digital communications services as private networks, free of policy safeguards or governmental oversight. Indeed, both the Congress and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) are considering proposals that will have far-reaching impact on the Internet's future. Ten years after passage of the ill-advised Telecommunications Act of 1996, telephone and cable companies are using the same political snake oil to convince compromised or clueless lawmakers to subvert the Internet into a turbo-charged digital retail machine. The telephone industry has been somewhat more candid than the cable industry about its strategy for the Internet's future. Senior phone executives have publicly discussed plans to begin imposing a new scheme for the delivery of Internet content, especially from major Internet content companies. As Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of ATT, told Business Week in November, "Why should they be allowed to use my pipes? The Internet can't be free in that sense, because we and the cable companies have made an investment, and for a Google or Yahoo! or Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes [for] free is nuts!" The phone industry has marshaled its political allies to help win the freedom to impose this new broadband business model. At a recent conference held by the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a think tank funded by Comcast, Verizon, ATT and other media companies, there was much discussion of a plan for phone companies to impose fees on a sliding scale, charging content providers different levels of service. "Price discrimination," noted PFF's resident media expert Adam Thierer, "drives the market-based capitalist economy." Net Neutrality To ward off the prospect of virtual toll booths on the information
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Well there may be something to this. It may not be the main source of greenhouse gas but IIRC methane is 6 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2 and there are a lot of cows being grown to serve the north american obsession with beef. And they do fart a hell of a lot! Consider also that the lion's share of oxygen comes not from trees as many a tree hugger has suggested but from algae in the sea. Tiny bubbles. Well I have heard that more methane is released by termites than any other single source. Is this information debunkable? I'd like to know. Joe MH wrote: I found this interesting. Since I've been using my Window XP system some email threads have been deleted regarding global warming exchanges. One thread started to discuss one persons belief that one billion cows flatulent methane emissions were the cause of global warming. I thought this amusing. So I wrote something along the lines: With 6 billion people farting around spewing fossil energy out their chimneys, smokestacks and tailpipes you believe its the cows disrupting the climate ? http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/ The End of the Internet By Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Hi Mike Keith, So, it seems as though the federal government (a.k.a. corporate America) is threatened by the Second Superpower and is making preparations for war. :-) Maybe. Or maybe it's just what corporations do all the time anyway, they want to own everything. They had such an easy time with concentration of media ownership they probably think the Internet will be easy meat too, then they can turn it into FauxTV in drag. It's supposed to be immune to nuclear attack, do you think it'll be somewhat immune to hostile corporate take-over too? Wasn't the US government also supposed to be immune to nuclear attack? Didn't help them much with the take-overs though. Seems to me I've been reading stories like this for at least 10 years. It keeps upping the ante each time but nothing much seems to happen. Except that the Internet keeps growing and spreading and getting faster and better and ever more firmly rooted in all our societies. How much of this stuff could they make stick without running afoul of international agreements or stirring up international opposition? Let alone world opposition? Isn't it all just a hacker-magnet anyway? Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?) Best Keith Mike Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/ The End of the Internet By Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006. America's big phone and cable companies want to start charging exorbitant user fees for the supposedly-free internet. The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online. Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets -- corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers -- would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out. Under the plans they are considering, all of us -- from content providers to individual users -- would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing platinum, gold and silver levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. To make this pay-to-play vision a reality, phone and cable lobbyists are now engaged in a political campaign to further weaken the nation's communications policy laws. They want the federal government to permit them to operate Internet and other digital communications services as private networks, free of policy safeguards or governmental oversight. Indeed, both the Congress and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) are considering proposals that will have far-reaching impact on the Internet's future. Ten years after passage of the ill-advised Telecommunications Act of 1996, telephone and cable companies are using the same political snake oil to convince compromised or clueless lawmakers to subvert the Internet into a turbo-charged digital retail machine. The telephone industry has been somewhat more candid than the cable industry about its strategy for the Internet's future. Senior phone executives have publicly discussed plans to begin imposing a new scheme for the delivery of Internet content, especially from major Internet content companies. As Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of ATT, told Business Week in November, Why should they be allowed to use my pipes? The Internet can't be free in that sense, because we and the cable companies have made an investment, and for a Google or Yahoo! or Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes [for] free is nuts! The phone industry has marshaled its political allies to help win the freedom to impose this new broadband business model. At a recent conference held by the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a think tank funded by Comcast, Verizon, ATT and other media companies, there was much discussion of a plan for phone companies to impose fees on a sliding scale, charging content providers different levels of service. Price discrimination, noted PFF's resident media expert Adam Thierer, drives the market-based capitalist economy. Net Neutrality To ward off the prospect of
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
And what about the permafrost thawing ? Joe Street wrote: Well there may be something to this. It may not be the main source of greenhouse gas but IIRC methane is 6 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2 and there are a lot of cows being grown to serve the north american obsession with beef. And they do fart a hell of a lot! Consider also that the lion's share of oxygen comes not from trees as many a tree hugger has suggested but from algae in the sea. Tiny bubbles. Well I have heard that more methane is released by termites than any other single source. Is this information debunkable? I'd like to know. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Joe Street wrote: Well there may be something to this. It may not be the main source of greenhouse gas but IIRC methane is 6 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2 and there are a lot of cows being grown to serve the north american obsession with beef. And they do fart a hell of a lot! Consider also that the lion's share of oxygen comes not from trees as many a tree hugger has suggested but from algae in the sea. Tiny bubbles. Well I have heard that more methane is released by termites than any other single source. Is this information debunkable? I'd like to know. Joe According to this page: http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/atmosphere/atmospheric_composition_p2.html termites are responsible for 20 to 40% of atmospheric methane. doug -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Keith,Your last paragraph really jumped out at me for two reasons:"Except that the Internet keeps growing and spreading and getting faster and better and ever more firmly rooted in all our societies." These are some of the most encouraging words I've read in a while on this subject. I always wanted to believe it. Ihad the information to back a position on it but, what I really like is when there is consensus on it."Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?)" I find it extremely interesting how a society which is developing on an entirely different plane (and without any political hierarchy)can so closely resemble one which we are so accustomed to in the physical world.The hacker community has taken on behaviors which also resemble those of the CIA (for example). Both act on a certain ideology, are motivated largely by a resistance to be controlled (i.e. "sticking it to the 'man'"), feel a sense of community and pride. Last but not least, the intelligence community of every superpoweris somewhat troubled by various rogue elements. I don't want to portray hackers as people I admire - only as people who show familiar patterns of behavior when looked at in groups.One of my favorite examples is how they collectively express their position on Microsoft and during the earlier days of the Internet, how so many government and large corporations were the main targets.MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MikeKeith,So, it seems as though the federal government (a.k.a. corporate America) is threatened by the Second Superpower and is making preparations for war.:-) Maybe. Or maybe it's just what corporations do all the time anyway, they want to own everything. They had such an easy time with concentration of media ownership they probably think the Internet will be easy meat too, then they can turn it into FauxTV in drag.It's supposed to be immune to nuclear attack, do you think it'll be somewhat immune to hostile corporate take-over too? Wasn't the US government also supposed to be immune to nuclear attack? Didn't help them much with the take-overs though.Seems to me I've been reading stories like this for at least 10 years. It keeps upping the ante each time but nothing much seems to happen. Except that the Internet keeps growing and spreading and getting faster and better and ever more firmly rooted in all our societies. How much of this stuff could they make stick without running afoul of international agreements or stirring up international opposition? Let alone world opposition? Isn't it all just a hacker-magnet anyway? Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?)BestKeithMike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I don't like the flimsy excuse give by that Telecom guy why should they use our pipes for free. Does anybody really think that they are not charging somebody for the use of their fibers and wires? Obviously they just want more for it. If my internet starts getting any more expensive, I will opt out of so many things. These mail lists will get pruned and stick with daily digests. If companies like the Walmarts of the world don't compensate for me looking/shopping on their site, then I won't pay extra to do it. The whole concept stinks. My 2 cents John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 12:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet Seems to me I've been reading stories like this for at least 10 years. It keeps upping the ante each time but nothing much seems to happen. Except that the Internet keeps growing and spreading and getting faster and better and ever more firmly rooted in all our societies. How much of this stuff could they make stick without running afoul of international agreements or stirring up international opposition? Let alone world opposition? Isn't it all just a hacker-magnet anyway? Would you include the hacker community in the Second Superpower? (Or do they all work for the CIA these days?) Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
John Mullan wrote: I don't like the flimsy excuse give by that Telecom guy why should they use our pipes for free. Wasn't all of that infrastructure built on the backs of rate payers anyway? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Wireless can easily supply the same speeds as most of the DSL in service right now. It takes planning and the correct gear but it works very well. WISP's will be the future if/when this is implemented. We are luck as Google was ABC's first target and they said go to H#LL! to SBC. In the end this wont last long as people run away from the ILEC's to anyone who is offering a less restricted pipe. WISPs will force ILECs to rethink this just as VoIP made them offer flat rate calling, this is just the strike back. Jeromie Reeves I own a WISP so my view is tainted Joe Street wrote: Ok so we go wireless. The original idea for internet protocol came from packet radio which was an amateur radio thing. Granted the bandwidth was not to be compared but I can easily set up an ad hock net over several kilometers using a standard wireless adapter and a high gain antenna which is nothing more than a tin can pressed into service as a coaxial to waveguide transition feeding into the feedpoint on a surplus primestar satelite tv dish giving plenty of gain for a line of sight link over a fairly long haul with no amplifiers or anything other than what is on the card. A server centrally located and operating on an omidirectional antenna can serve many subscribers within a line of sight path using this scheme. Repeaters can be added to expand the network. Where there is a will there is a way. See here http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/Airport/Primestar/Primestar.html other useful network info here http://epanorama.net/links/tele_lan.html Joe Michael Redler wrote: Keith, So, it seems as though the federal government (a.k.a. corporate America) is threatened by the Second Superpower and is making preparations for war. Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/ The End of the Internet By Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006. America's big phone and cable companies want to start charging exorbitant user fees for the supposedly-free internet. The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online. Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets -- corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers -- would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out. Under the plans they are considering, all of us -- from content providers to individual users -- would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing platinum, gold and silver levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. To make this pay-to-play vision a reality, phone and cable lobbyists are now engaged in a political campaign to further weaken the nation's communications policy laws. They want the federal government to permit them to operate Internet and other digital communications services as private networks, free of policy safeguards or governmental oversight. Indeed, both the Congress and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) are considering proposals that will have far-reaching impact on the Internet's future. Ten years after passage of the ill-advised Telecommunications Act of 1996, telephone and cable companies are using the same political snake oil to convince compromised or clueless lawmakers to subvert the Internet into a turbo-charged digital retail machine. The telephone industry has been somewhat more candid than the cable industry about its strategy for the Internet's future. Senior phone executives have publicly discussed plans to begin imposing a new scheme for the delivery of Internet content, especially from major Internet content companies. As Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of ATT, told Business Week in November, Why should they be allowed to use my pipes? The Internet can't be free in that sense, because
