Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
You can buy it now. Here is what I found from http://www.vrbpower.com/technology/faqs.html - the Canadian company which sells VRB. More information about the technology available on their site. 11. What is the Cost per kW? What is the Incremental Cost of Additional Storage Capacity? The cost is quoted in $/kWh or $/MWh since the VRB-ESS is an Energy Storage System and should not be considered a UPS or even a generator. Although the VRB-ESS provides the full UPS capability, its primary use is for energy storage for long periods, which UPS and conventional technologies cannot provide. As an approximate cost, systems are priced between $350-$600 per kWh, sizes ranging from a few hundred kW's to MW size systems. As the size of the system in kWh increases, the cost per unit decreases significantly. The incremental cost of storage for large systems is approximately $150 per kWh. Quoting D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ref: Vanadium redox battery This seems to be the battery we've all been waiting for. I wonder what'll it cost here in the US? Peace, D. Mindock More info at: http://www.answers.com/topic/vanadium-redox-battery - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; biofuel Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. The potential of this system can be easily summed up in one word: 100% recharge/discharge. Well that's slightly more than one word, but still it is an impressive group of words. I'm a little excited here, so let me back track a little and explain the importance of Vanadium Batteries to our very existence. It has been possible for quite some time to successfully gather energy through a variety of renewable energy sources, in particular solar and wind. The main problem however, which is also true for fossil fuel energy generation, is the storage of the energy. There is no point in generating surplus uber-watts on one sunny and windy day to find the next day is still and raining and worst of all there is no power to play the new DVD of Stainless Steel Rat on your suped-up 80 inch LCD screen (sorry...just wishful thinking). If the energy cannot be stored on the day of bountiful bliss than a renewable energy system is useless. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
Dear Group, My company is working with the orignal designers of the batteries here in Australia. If you need to more detail information about the batteries I can email more technical informaton about them as I do'nt want to flood the group with to many Files. I don't know about Canada but here in Australia the smallest unit that they are producing is a 10kw/h system that will retail for about $25,000 australian. The maxium power that can be drawn is 5kw for 2 hours or any part of that. The system has a round trip efficency of about 80% and can be charged and discharged at a rate of 5kw/h. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery You can buy it now. Here is what I found from http://www.vrbpower.com/technology/faqs.html - the Canadian company which sells VRB. More information about the technology available on their site. 11. What is the Cost per kW? What is the Incremental Cost of Additional Storage Capacity? The cost is quoted in $/kWh or $/MWh since the VRB-ESS is an Energy Storage System and should not be considered a UPS or even a generator. Although the VRB-ESS provides the full UPS capability, its primary use is for energy storage for long periods, which UPS and conventional technologies cannot provide. As an approximate cost, systems are priced between $350-$600 per kWh, sizes ranging from a few hundred kW's to MW size systems. As the size of the system in kWh increases, the cost per unit decreases significantly. The incremental cost of storage for large systems is approximately $150 per kWh. Quoting D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ref: Vanadium redox battery This seems to be the battery we've all been waiting for. I wonder what'll it cost here in the US? Peace, D. Mindock More info at: http://www.answers.com/topic/vanadium-redox-battery - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; biofuel Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. The potential of this system can be easily summed up in one word: 100% recharge/discharge. Well that's slightly more than one word, but still it is an impressive group of words. I'm a little excited here, so let me back track a little and explain the importance of Vanadium Batteries to our very existence. It has been possible for quite some time to successfully gather energy through a variety of renewable energy sources, in particular solar and wind. The main problem however, which is also true for fossil fuel energy generation, is the storage of the energy. There is no point in generating surplus uber-watts on one sunny and windy day to find the next day is still and raining and worst of all there is no power to play the new DVD of Stainless Steel Rat on your suped-up 80 inch LCD screen (sorry...just wishful thinking). If the energy cannot be stored on the day of bountiful bliss than a renewable energy system is useless. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Vanadium battery
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.phpA new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. The potential of this system can be easily summed up in one word: 100% recharge/discharge. Well that's slightly more than one word, but still it is an impressive group of words. I'm a little excited here, so let me back track a little and explain the importance of Vanadium Batteries to our very existence. It has been possible for quite some time to successfully gather energy through a variety of renewable energy sources, in particular solar and wind. The main problem however, which is also true for fossil fuel energy generation, is the storage of the energy. There is no point in generating surplus uber-watts on one sunny and windy day to find the next day is still and raining and worst of all there is no power to play the new DVD of Stainless Steel Rat on your suped-up 80 inch LCD screen (sorry...just wishful thinking). If the energy cannot be stored on the day of bountiful bliss than a renewable energy system is useless. In small scale alternative energy systems usually found in off-grid houses, lead-acid batteries are commonly used to store energy. The main problem with this storage system is that lead-acid batteries aren't too efficient. In order to obtain the most cycles possible (300-1500), the batteries are designed to only use 10% of their storage capacity - that's like only being able to use your iPod for one hour instead of the battery's 10 hour capacity. If more energy is sucked out of them, the amount of times they can be recharged and discharged is drastically shortened. Large scale power companies also have a little problem with storage. Basically, they can't be bothered. It's cheaper for them to estimate the daily power needs of a city and make sure that they produce enough electricity to satisfy all vested interests - that usually takes the form of direct support for industry not individual consumers as many North Americans are finding out on an all too regular basis. Because a powerhouse can't instantaneously lower or raise output, at night there is usually surplus electricity and the crazy situation occurs where it is pumped into the ground. For all the skeptics out there mumbling conspiracy theory, treehugging pinky, just look it up in any dictionary under 'colossal waste'. Which brings me back to the amazing invention of the Vanadium Battery. This battery, as the name so intelligently suggests, uses a metal called Vanadium. The soon-to-be Nobel Prize recipients (if there is any justice in this world) from Australia and Europe, have found a substance that can store energy indefinitely. On top of all that, it is possible to use 100% of the stored energy without any side effects. The number of times the Vanadium Battery can be recharged/discharged is also a tad worrying for other battery makers (over 10,000 plus cycles), who must be searching desperately for new employment opportunities - possibly in the oil industry . In all honesty the word 'battery' falls a little shy of an accurate description of this epoch-creating invention. In very basic terms (which is all I can manage after trying to read the manual) the Vanadium is stored in two separate containers in liquid form - one is charged with energy and one has a depleted energy charge. When new energy is gathered, non-charged Vanadium gets spinached-up and popeye's your uncle, you have lots of energy to expend on a 30 inch Cinema Display connected to 17 inch Powerbook playing Doom until your fingers hurt...um and ah all those other things that use power in a normal household, like lights, fridges, blah, blah, blah. If you decide one day that you need a little more storage capacity, perhaps for that air-conditioner or hairdryer (for the uninitiated, the banes of lead-acid batteries), no worries, just get bigger storage tanks to hold more Vanadium and all of a sudden you have storage to spare. Try that with a lead-acid battery system. On a final and semi-serious note (which is the best I can do after thinking about my dream Mac setup), Vanadium Batteries have profound implications for normal households that don't have an alternative energy system supplying power to their house. As Japan is demonstrating, the amount of energy that their power stations produce can be cut by 1/3 simply by storing their previously dumped excess nightly energy into
Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
Ref: Vanadium redox battery This seems to be the battery we've all been waiting for. I wonder what'll it cost here in the US? Peace, D. Mindock More info at: http://www.answers.com/topic/vanadium-redox-battery - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; biofuel Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. The potential of this system can be easily summed up in one word: 100% recharge/discharge. Well that's slightly more than one word, but still it is an impressive group of words. I'm a little excited here, so let me back track a little and explain the importance of Vanadium Batteries to our very existence. It has been possible for quite some time to successfully gather energy through a variety of renewable energy sources, in particular solar and wind. The main problem however, which is also true for fossil fuel energy generation, is the storage of the energy. There is no point in generating surplus uber-watts on one sunny and windy day to find the next day is still and raining and worst of all there is no power to play the new DVD of Stainless Steel Rat on your suped-up 80 inch LCD screen (sorry...just wishful thinking). If the energy cannot be stored on the day of bountiful bliss than a renewable energy system is useless. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
The technology looks interesting, but the article takes a tone of uncritical boosting. There is nothing about cost cycle efficiency amount of vanadium resource in proportion to possible applications how it works relation to other technologies (this is one of a family of flow batteries) energy density in relation to alternatives Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vanadium battery
More info below the article in the comments section Kirk[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The technology looks interesting, but the article takes a tone of uncritical boosting. There is nothing aboutcostcycle efficiencyamount of vanadium resource in proportion to possible applicationshow it worksrelation to other technologies (this is one of a family of flow batteries)energy density in relation to alternativesDoug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, CanadaOn Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Kirk McLoren wrote: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/04/the_vanadium_ba.php A new mass energy storage technology is on the cusp of entering mainstream society. The Japanese are currently using it on a grand scale, the Canadians have comprehensively evaluated it and soon Australians will have the opportunity to replace their old lead-acid batteries with a Vanadium Redox Battery alternative. There are no emissions, no disposal issues, no loss of charge, the construction materials are 'green' and the battery can be charged and discharged simultaneously. So, is the Vanadium Battery as good as it sounds and more importantly, is it the solution to our energy storage problems? Quite simply...Yes.[snip] See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
