Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Hi Chip Slow response, sorry. Keith Addison wrote: Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. Heh, Yeah, I was just stirring the pot. Mostly anyway. :-) Thought you might be. (Though it seems indeed it didn't wash.) I also come from a big country, not that big, but big enough, so I know something about it. I quite often used to drive 1,000 miles each way for the weekend, or 400 each way for a different weekend. In an 850cc Mini, foot flat all the way at 80 mph, and not very much gas used. (I'm not small, 6ft 2in.) Japan's a big country too, in its way, narrow but long. Where you guys need a 6.8 litre F250 truck the Japanese use little 660cc K-trucks, for just about everything, very economical, tough and capable. Oh, how I know it! So you do. That makes a pleasant change. Fellow up in my hometown, (that place that is 127miles from where I work?) has a bunch of K-trucks. It's funny, because EVERYONE loves them, everyone wants'em. Yes! They're GREAT! They're creatures great and small. But since their road-legal-ness is suspect, ?? Then it's the road laws that are suspect. and they don't haul down the Interstates at 80+mph they get dismissed. In order to import them them to the US, they have to be governed to max speed of 25mph. Aarghh!! HOW can you do that to a K-truck??! Sheesh! It's kinda silly all in all. Yeah, kinda. There are special classes of vehicles that some states allow to be operated on state highways and road with a posted speed limit of 45mph or less. the K-truck would fit this nicely. It's just too radical an idea, for now, for the US. I can see how it might look a little radical to the Big 3, or the Five Sisters, or to Wall St or Washington or Dick Cheney, but what's that matter if everyone else loves them and wants them? LOL! I love tiny vehicles. Love them. The smallest car I ever had was a Fiat 650. Heh - whose is smaller. I had a Fiat 500, in London in 78-79. I bought it from Ivor Richard, who was a labour cabinet minister, it was said to be quite a sight seeing Ivor heave his large and portly frame out of his Fiat 500 on arrival at Westminster in the morning. It didn't mind traffic jams much, you could sort of squirm through them. It was red, same colour as London buses. It looked a bit like a lifeboat you could hang from davits off the top deck of a London bus in case the bus sank in the traffic. But as you know, there are much smaller cars than that. When I lived in Germany in the mid-80s, for a while I had a Citroen deux chevaux, which relative to some things, was pretty big. I could use it on the Autobahn, legally. it was capable of hitting 130kph. Amazing car. Lots of people drove them from Europe to South Africa, it was almost the vehicle of choice (with the Peugeot 404). You had to spend not many bucks on the suspension or something and then you could cross the Sahara, or whatever. Also the 2CV before that, similar. What I wanted was a Renault 4 Fourgonnette (box van) like a buddy of mine had. Another amazing car. I had a Renault 4 in Holland, and then England, my partner Christine had the box van version. She's probably still got it. I really liked the 4. Heh - there was an Irish joke in London at the time, someone asked an Irishman, What do you think of the Renault 4? Answer: They're innocent! a fellow I used to play darts with had one of those bmw isetta 600s, the 'big' Isetta :) That's cheating. :-) As you probably know however, seems that a lot of Americans greatly enjoy hammering down the road in 3+ton gvw SUVs while jabbering on cellphones and slamming into one another. Yes, I've heard that about them. I think they're going to have to change their ways in the end though, there are signs those days might be over. Simply put, Yer old 660 mini wouldn't be safe here, not in this part of the country, with it's traffic density, and complete disregard for all road use courtesy. :-( I'll take your word for it. I still have a saab sonett that I quit driving a few years because I could not longer enjoy it. Nice though. Got rid of my last VW rabbit (the real rabbit, the G1 golf) at about the same time, bought a '98 subaru legacy outback hoping to survive the eventual altercation with a Ford Excursion or Chevy Tahoe. Series 3 Land Rover? A Defender would probably do too, and more civilised. Good 4x4 too, not easy to get stuck in a K-truck. They're real trucks, but miniaturised, not made-over cars. I don't
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Keith Addison wrote: Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. Heh, Yeah, I was just stirring the pot. Mostly anyway. I also come from a big country, not that big, but big enough, so I know something about it. I quite often used to drive 1,000 miles each way for the weekend, or 400 each way for a different weekend. In an 850cc Mini, foot flat all the way at 80 mph, and not very much gas used. (I'm not small, 6ft 2in.) Japan's a big country too, in its way, narrow but long. Where you guys need a 6.8 litre F250 truck the Japanese use little 660cc K-trucks, for just about everything, very economical, tough and capable. Oh, how I know it! Fellow up in my hometown, (that place that is 127miles from where I work?) has a bunch of K-trucks. It's funny, because EVERYONE loves them, everyone wants'em. But since their road-legal-ness is suspect, and they don't haul down the Interstates at 80+mph they get dismissed. In order to import them them to the US, they have to be governed to max speed of 25mph. It's kinda silly all in all. There are special classes of vehicles that some states allow to be operated on state highways and road with a posted speed limit of 45mph or less. the K-truck would fit this nicely. It's just too radical an idea, for now, for the US. I love tiny vehicles. Love them. The smallest car I ever had was a Fiat 650. But as you know, there are much smaller cars than that. When I lived in Germany in the mid-80s, for a while I had a Citroen deux chevaux, which relative to some things, was pretty big. I could use it on the Autobahn, legally. it was capable of hitting 130kph. What I wanted was a Renault 4 Fourgonnette (box van) like a buddy of mine had. a fellow I used to play darts with had one of those bmw isetta 600s, the 'big' Isetta :) As you probably know however, seems that a lot of Americans greatly enjoy hammering down the road in 3+ton gvw SUVs while jabbering on cellphones and slamming into one another. Simply put, Yer old 660 mini wouldn't be safe here, not in this part of the country, with it's traffic density, and complete disregard for all road use courtesy. I still have a saab sonett that I quit driving a few years because I could not longer enjoy it. Got rid of my last VW rabbit (the real rabbit, the G1 golf) at about the same time, bought a '98 subaru legacy outback hoping to survive the eventual altercation with a Ford Excursion or Chevy Tahoe. Good 4x4 too, not easy to get stuck in a K-truck. They're real trucks, but miniaturised, not made-over cars. I don't think Japan would work very well without its K-trucks, I can see it sort of slowly grinding to a halt. There are K-cars too, all the K-vehicles have low taxes to encourage people to buy them. Well, my father -who was part of the first occupation- spent his formative years in Japan, and since he arrived there at the age of 18, and stayed for a while, fell deeply in love with the place and the people. One of those sailors who 'went native'. Anyway, that's staggeringly long story, the germane bit is that the last time he was there, was about 20 years ago. His idea of a good time, was to go down to the fish market at about 4am, and sit back across from it, and wait, and watch. He just loved watching all the little vehicles, and of course, -being a seafood biologist- and the market. As he put it, there was no such thing as a vehicle so small that there wasn't a smaller one that could pull up and park between two of them. :) Of course, he also bought his first VW beetle in 62, and loved small cars. His last car before he stopped driving was an old diesel dasher, that got over 50mpg, and had over 360k miles on it. I wonder if your F250s accomplish that much more work than Japan's K-trucks do (let alone 10 times as much work, since they're 10 times as big), and what the real costs might be per unit of work accomplished in each case, or some such efficiency comparison. I've no idea where to find such data, if anywhere, but it might be a surprise. No to me. On the leading point, since I hardly use mine, it's almost a moot point. On the overall point, since it's road legal, I can use it, more or less safely. It's a 85 6.9 mechanical idi, not a 6.8. So at least I can work on it. It's a good truck. But were things just a little different, I'd gladly trade back down to my preferred truck; a suzuki long-bed F-413 pickup. Can't get those here. You see a few lwb 410s around, but they are
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Hello Roger Thanks for the reply. A combination...My F250 Diesel, Oil Heat, My father's F250, and some for the neighbor's house. Four users then, averaging enough for three people each (who also use too much). I suppose the 500 Gallons is a winter number - maybe 300 gallons in the summer to support the lot of us. I go through about 250 gallons a month myself (in the winter). That's only 1 tank per week in the truck (26 gal). Um, 1 tank per week in the truck (26 gal) is about 104 gallons a month, not 250 gallons a month. Is the 104 gallons a month your summer rate? Why would you use more than twice as much in the winter? If that's what you're saying? Plus I have a few friends asking for any surplus I have. Currently, I'm only acquiring about 100 gallons a month, which is more hassle than I imagined. Between driving up to 30 minutes away and then trying to get the sludge from the good stuff, it doesn't seem worth it compared to over $5 a gal for diesel and heating oil is right behind at $4.69. So it's 100 gallons a month, or less (sludge), not 300 or 500. I wonder how much you actually use. What do you do with the sludge? If you're using 104 gallons a month, that's 1,248 gallons a year, 2.5 times the national average, and you're covering 22,500 miles a year, about twice the national average. If you're using 250 gallons a month, that's 3,000 gallons a year, six times the national average, and you're covering 54,000 miles a year, 4.5 times the national average. I don't think anyone pretends the national average is exactly energy efficient, let alone sustainable, or not anyone who's sane anyway. You use either 4 times or 10 times as much fuel as we do. Why do you drive so much? For how many of those 22,500 miles a year or 54,000 miles a year is your F250 actually carrying a load that justifies its existence? Do you drive alone or do you share? How many miles could you do just as well in a 1980s VW Golf that gets 50 mpg? How many could you do just as well without? If WVO weren't cheaper than petro would your mileage be the same? What might your mileage be if you couldn't get enough WVO and the gas price hit $10 and the methanol price went up too? Or with gas at $15, or $20? And what's it got to do with me? :-) Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. I also come from a big country, not that big, but big enough, so I know something about it. I quite often used to drive 1,000 miles each way for the weekend, or 400 each way for a different weekend. In an 850cc Mini, foot flat all the way at 80 mph, and not very much gas used. (I'm not small, 6ft 2in.) Japan's a big country too, in its way, narrow but long. Where you guys need a 6.8 litre F250 truck the Japanese use little 660cc K-trucks, for just about everything, very economical, tough and capable. Good 4x4 too, not easy to get stuck in a K-truck. They're real trucks, but miniaturised, not made-over cars. I don't think Japan would work very well without its K-trucks, I can see it sort of slowly grinding to a halt. There are K-cars too, all the K-vehicles have low taxes to encourage people to buy them. I wonder if your F250s accomplish that much more work than Japan's K-trucks do (let alone 10 times as much work, since they're 10 times as big), and what the real costs might be per unit of work accomplished in each case, or some such efficiency comparison. I've no idea where to find such data, if anywhere, but it might be a surprise. Anyway, the cases you describe don't seem to be typical for the US, according to these stats, source U.S. Department of Transportation: Average annual fuel consumed per vehicle (gallons) - Passenger car - 2005: 541 Average miles traveled per vehicle (thousands) - Passenger car: 12.4 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004727.html That's about what I thought, 12,000 miles a year, 500 gallons. So yes, Roger's 500 gallons a month should be enough for 12 people. I don't know, but I don't think he's in the same situation as you. He says he's just outside Philadelphia, he said before he works for a laboratory surplus equipment company, in Philadelphia I guess, though maybe not. So why does he need so much fuel? Interesting numbers at that infoplease page. Number of passenger cars registered 1960: 61,671,000 2005: 135,568,000 Did the US get twice as big in the
[Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Roger wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger You could check with this guy http://www.smarterfuel.com/sales.html He's up near Reading I think. He likes to deal quantity. 1000+ gallons. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Chip Mefford Before Enlightenment; chop wood carry water After Enlightenment; chop wood carry water - Public Key http://www.well.com/user/cpm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Lemme see, 500 gal of svo, could yield 500 gals of bd, for a 30 day month, that's ~17 gallons a day, in my F-250, that get's 16-20mpg,if I drive it really gently, that's 300 miles a day, but that's every day. Since I live 127 miles from where I work, I could *almost* burn that much. However, I don't commute, I only go home on the weekends, and I don't drive the truck :) Some folks will boggle at that. But around here, it's not as far-fetched as one might -at first blush- think. Of the 80-some-odd folks that I work with, more than half of them commute more than 50 miles a day, some more than 75. A few well over 100. I personally drive just a bit over 70 miles a day on average. On the road, I see vehicles coming in from much farther out that are gigantic fuel burners. These are daily commuters, 2.5 to 5ton class diesel trucks close to fully loaded with welders, etc. that probably log well over 200 miles a day, and I'm sure they don't get anything like 15-20 mpg. So, yeah, I can see how some folks, trades people esp, who would go through 500 gals a month. An interesting trend that I've been paying attention to over the years are the 3/4 to 1 ton short bed crew cab turbo diesel pickups, that are 'dressed' up, making them essentially SUVs that haul up and down from much futher out than i normally drive (which is already an insane amount) who have no regard for anything resembling speed limits. As the prices have climbed over the last year, I've started seeing more and more of them in used car lots, but there are plenty of them still on the road. And they haven't even slowed down. So, though diesel has gone up nearly 2x in a year, seems these folks are just fine with that. Lot of complaining, but very little change in behavior. I also know, as in know personally, over the road truck operators, who have been completely buried. done in by this fuel increase. Sitting home, going through their savings, hoping for a reversal of fortune, and looking for different work. Some completely wiped out already. But still I see no real changes, just individual disasters. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Chip Mefford Before Enlightenment; chop wood carry water After Enlightenment; chop wood carry water - Public Key http://www.well.com/user/cpm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. I also come from a big country, not that big, but big enough, so I know something about it. I quite often used to drive 1,000 miles each way for the weekend, or 400 each way for a different weekend. In an 850cc Mini, foot flat all the way at 80 mph, and not very much gas used. (I'm not small, 6ft 2in.) Japan's a big country too, in its way, narrow but long. Where you guys need a 6.8 litre F250 truck the Japanese use little 660cc K-trucks, for just about everything, very economical, tough and capable. Good 4x4 too, not easy to get stuck in a K-truck. They're real trucks, but miniaturised, not made-over cars. I don't think Japan would work very well without its K-trucks, I can see it sort of slowly grinding to a halt. There are K-cars too, all the K-vehicles have low taxes to encourage people to buy them. I wonder if your F250s accomplish that much more work than Japan's K-trucks do (let alone 10 times as much work, since they're 10 times as big), and what the real costs might be per unit of work accomplished in each case, or some such efficiency comparison. I've no idea where to find such data, if anywhere, but it might be a surprise. Anyway, the cases you describe don't seem to be typical for the US, according to these stats, source U.S. Department of Transportation: Average annual fuel consumed per vehicle (gallons) - Passenger car - 2005: 541 Average miles traveled per vehicle (thousands) - Passenger car: 12.4 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004727.html That's about what I thought, 12,000 miles a year, 500 gallons. So yes, Roger's 500 gallons a month should be enough for 12 people. I don't know, but I don't think he's in the same situation as you. He says he's just outside Philadelphia, he said before he works for a laboratory surplus equipment company, in Philadelphia I guess, though maybe not. So why does he need so much fuel? Interesting numbers at that infoplease page. Number of passenger cars registered 1960: 61,671,000 2005: 135,568,000 Did the US get twice as big in the meantime? No: Vehicle-miles traveled - Passenger car 1960: 587,000,000 2005: 1,689,965,000 It got three times as big! LOL! Sorry. snip But still I see no real changes, just individual disasters. That's the problem eh? Ordinary people, the real ones, get hurt first, and the toy people don't feel a thing. I suppose long-haul will go by train, or not at all, trucks will be for local. Hm. The Japanese don't export the K-vehicles, but I think you can get second-hand K-trucks in the US now. Maybe some of your trucker friends might be interested in this: http://www.best-used-tractors.com/mini_truck.html Used Japanese 4X4 K-class Mini Trucks, Micro Trucks - US and Canada The Japanese have been making right hand drive light duty trucks for decades which Best Used Tractors can now import used in containers to the US, to Canada, and to many other countries around the globe. Bit of money to be made there, I think. Could even be trendy, sort of an anti-Hummer. Best Keith Lemme see, 500 gal of svo, could yield 500 gals of bd, for a 30 day month, that's ~17 gallons a day, in my F-250, that get's 16-20mpg,if I drive it really gently, that's 300 miles a day, but that's every day. Since I live 127 miles from where I work, I could *almost* burn that much. However, I don't commute, I only go home on the weekends, and I don't drive the truck :) Some folks will boggle at that. But around here, it's not as far-fetched as one might -at first blush- think. Of the 80-some-odd folks that I work with, more than half of them commute more than 50 miles a day, some more than 75. A few well over 100. I personally drive just a bit over 70 miles a day on average. On the road, I see vehicles coming in from much farther out that are gigantic fuel burners. These are daily commuters, 2.5 to 5ton class diesel trucks close to fully loaded with welders, etc. that probably log well over 200 miles a day, and I'm sure they don't get anything like 15-20 mpg. So, yeah, I can see how some folks, trades people esp, who would go through 500 gals a month. An interesting trend that I've been paying attention to over the years are the 3/4 to 1 ton short bed crew cab turbo diesel pickups, that are 'dressed' up, making them essentially SUVs that haul up and down from much futher out than i normally drive (which is already an insane amount) who have no regard for anything resembling speed limits.
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Maybe he's working with a group of guys to make it. Maybe he owns a delivery truck. Maybe he owns a company that has 12 trucks in its fleet. Maybe he has a hole in his storage tank. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:47 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. I also come from a big country, not that big, but big enough, so I know something about it. I quite often used to drive 1,000 miles each way for the weekend, or 400 each way for a different weekend. In an 850cc Mini, foot flat all the way at 80 mph, and not very much gas used. (I'm not small, 6ft 2in.) Japan's a big country too, in its way, narrow but long. Where you guys need a 6.8 litre F250 truck the Japanese use little 660cc K-trucks, for just about everything, very economical, tough and capable. Good 4x4 too, not easy to get stuck in a K-truck. They're real trucks, but miniaturised, not made-over cars. I don't think Japan would work very well without its K-trucks, I can see it sort of slowly grinding to a halt. There are K-cars too, all the K-vehicles have low taxes to encourage people to buy them. I wonder if your F250s accomplish that much more work than Japan's K-trucks do (let alone 10 times as much work, since they're 10 times as big), and what the real costs might be per unit of work accomplished in each case, or some such efficiency comparison. I've no idea where to find such data, if anywhere, but it might be a surprise. Anyway, the cases you describe don't seem to be typical for the US, according to these stats, source U.S. Department of Transportation: Average annual fuel consumed per vehicle (gallons) - Passenger car - 2005: 541 Average miles traveled per vehicle (thousands) - Passenger car: 12.4 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004727.html That's about what I thought, 12,000 miles a year, 500 gallons. So yes, Roger's 500 gallons a month should be enough for 12 people. I don't know, but I don't think he's in the same situation as you. He says he's just outside Philadelphia, he said before he works for a laboratory surplus equipment company, in Philadelphia I guess, though maybe not. So why does he need so much fuel? Interesting numbers at that infoplease page. Number of passenger cars registered 1960: 61,671,000 2005: 135,568,000 Did the US get twice as big in the meantime? No: Vehicle-miles traveled - Passenger car 1960: 587,000,000 2005: 1,689,965,000 It got three times as big! LOL! Sorry. snip But still I see no real changes, just individual disasters. That's the problem eh? Ordinary people, the real ones, get hurt first, and the toy people don't feel a thing. I suppose long-haul will go by train, or not at all, trucks will be for local. Hm. The Japanese don't export the K-vehicles, but I think you can get second-hand K-trucks in the US now. Maybe some of your trucker friends might be interested in this: http://www.best-used-tractors.com/mini_truck.html Used Japanese 4X4 K-class Mini Trucks, Micro Trucks - US and Canada The Japanese have been making right hand drive light duty trucks for decades which Best Used Tractors can now import used in containers to the US, to Canada, and to many other countries around the globe. Bit of money to be made there, I think. Could even be trendy, sort of an anti-Hummer. Best Keith Lemme see, 500 gal of svo, could yield 500 gals of bd, for a 30 day month, that's ~17 gallons a day, in my F-250, that get's 16-20mpg,if I drive it really gently, that's 300 miles a day, but that's every day. Since I live 127 miles from where I work, I could *almost* burn that much. However, I don't commute, I only go home on the weekends, and I don't drive the truck :) Some folks will boggle at that. But around here, it's not as far-fetched as one might -at first blush- think. Of the 80-some-odd folks that I work with, more than half of them commute more than 50 miles a day, some more than 75. A few well over 100. I personally drive just a bit over 70 miles a day on average. On the road, I see vehicles coming in from much farther out that are gigantic fuel burners. These are daily commuters, 2.5 to 5ton class diesel trucks close to fully loaded with welders, etc. that probably log well over 200 miles a day, and I'm sure they don't get anything like 15-20 mpg. So, yeah, I can see how some folks
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Maybe he's working with a group of guys to make it. Maybe he owns a delivery truck. Maybe he owns a company that has 12 trucks in its fleet. Maybe he has a hole in his storage tank. Maybe he'll tell us himself. Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:47 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
A combination...My F250 Diesel, Oil Heat, My father's F250, and some for the neighbor's house. I suppose the 500 Gallons is a winter number - maybe 300 gallons in the summer to support the lot of us. I go through about 250 gallons a month myself (in the winter). That's only 1 tank per week in the truck (26 gal). Plus I have a few friends asking for any surplus I have. Currently, I'm only acquiring about 100 gallons a month, which is more hassle than I imagined. Between driving up to 30 minutes away and then trying to get the sludge from the good stuff, it doesn't seem worth it compared to over $5 a gal for diesel and heating oil is right behind at $4.69. Keith Addison wrote: Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. I also come from a big country, not that big, but big enough, so I know something about it. I quite often used to drive 1,000 miles each way for the weekend, or 400 each way for a different weekend. In an 850cc Mini, foot flat all the way at 80 mph, and not very much gas used. (I'm not small, 6ft 2in.) Japan's a big country too, in its way, narrow but long. Where you guys need a 6.8 litre F250 truck the Japanese use little 660cc K-trucks, for just about everything, very economical, tough and capable. Good 4x4 too, not easy to get stuck in a K-truck. They're real trucks, but miniaturised, not made-over cars. I don't think Japan would work very well without its K-trucks, I can see it sort of slowly grinding to a halt. There are K-cars too, all the K-vehicles have low taxes to encourage people to buy them. I wonder if your F250s accomplish that much more work than Japan's K-trucks do (let alone 10 times as much work, since they're 10 times as big), and what the real costs might be per unit of work accomplished in each case, or some such efficiency comparison. I've no idea where to find such data, if anywhere, but it might be a surprise. Anyway, the cases you describe don't seem to be typical for the US, according to these stats, source U.S. Department of Transportation: Average annual fuel consumed per vehicle (gallons) - Passenger car - 2005: 541 Average miles traveled per vehicle (thousands) - Passenger car: 12.4 http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004727.html That's about what I thought, 12,000 miles a year, 500 gallons. So yes, Roger's 500 gallons a month should be enough for 12 people. I don't know, but I don't think he's in the same situation as you. He says he's just outside Philadelphia, he said before he works for a laboratory surplus equipment company, in Philadelphia I guess, though maybe not. So why does he need so much fuel? Interesting numbers at that infoplease page. Number of passenger cars registered 1960: 61,671,000 2005: 135,568,000 Did the US get twice as big in the meantime? No: Vehicle-miles traveled - Passenger car 1960: 587,000,000 2005: 1,689,965,000 It got three times as big! LOL! Sorry. snip But still I see no real changes, just individual disasters. That's the problem eh? Ordinary people, the real ones, get hurt first, and the toy people don't feel a thing. I suppose long-haul will go by train, or not at all, trucks will be for local. Hm. The Japanese don't export the K-vehicles, but I think you can get second-hand K-trucks in the US now. Maybe some of your trucker friends might be interested in this: http://www.best-used-tractors.com/mini_truck.html Used Japanese 4X4 K-class Mini Trucks, Micro Trucks - US and Canada The Japanese have been making right hand drive light duty trucks for decades which Best Used Tractors can now import used in containers to the US, to Canada, and to many other countries around the globe. Bit of money to be made there, I think. Could even be trendy, sort of an anti-Hummer. Best Keith Lemme see, 500 gal of svo, could yield 500 gals of bd, for a 30 day month, that's ~17 gallons a day, in my F-250, that get's 16-20mpg,if I drive it really gently, that's 300 miles a day, but that's every day. Since I live 127 miles from where I work, I could *almost* burn that much. However, I don't commute, I only go home on the weekends, and I don't drive the truck :) Some folks will boggle at that. But around here, it's not as far-fetched as one might -at first blush- think. Of the 80-some-odd folks that I work with, more than half of them commute more than 50 miles a day, some
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA
Ya just never know ;) This is almost as intriguing a mystery as all those feet washing up in canada. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:03 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA Maybe he's working with a group of guys to make it. Maybe he owns a delivery truck. Maybe he owns a company that has 12 trucks in its fleet. Maybe he has a hole in his storage tank. Maybe he'll tell us himself. Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:47 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO in PA, USA Keith Addison wrote: I'm having a hard time finding WVO. I need 500 Gallons per month and I'm tired of driving around and fighting for oil at every restaurant within 10 miles. I've found other companies in other states that sell and deliver larger quantities but nothing close to home. I'm just outside of Philadelphia - has anyone heard or run into such an animal. Thanks, Roger Why do you need so much oil? That should be enough for 12 people. This is the US Keith :) Yes, Chip, I know. :-) But it just doesn't wash. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
