Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
I was also under the impression that Acetylene for decades has been kept at reasonable pressures in the cylinders due to the carbon or Kapok filling. I was also to understand that at above 15 psi Acetylene was unstable and thus the need to use a filler to react with the gas. Can some one put me to rights on this. If the above is so then such cylinders have been around for as above decades and thus the carbon, active carbon and Kapok are very old technology. Active carbon filters are also used in some water treatment systems that have been around for many years. can some one out there confirm this also. Doug - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600 You can get it made out of all kinds of things: wood, coal, coconutshells, etc etcand if you look on the University of Missouri website, you findthis abstract: "Synthesis and analysisof activated carbon briquettes as an adsorbent for natural gas byDemetrius Taylor Presented at the 2005 SummerUndergraduate Research and Creative Achievements ForumABSTRACTActivated carbon has been usedfor many years for its adsorptive properties. These adsorptiveproperties are a result of its high surface area to density ratio. Itachieves this through its activation process. During activation anetwork of pores forms throughout the carbon matrix. These pores givethe carbon a very large surface area for outside molecules to adsorbto. By maximizing the distribution of different pore widths one cantailor the carbon to adsorb molecules of differing sizes and duringvarious conditions. Our goal is to develop a natural gas (95% methane)fuel tank that uses corncob produced activated carbon as an adsorptivemedium. To do this we need to maximize the distribution of porediameters that are between 1~2 nanometers (10~20 Angstroms). We arecurrently studying different activation methods and their effect onthe carbon’s adsorptive properties. We have obtained volumetricnitrogen and methane isotherms, gravimetric methane analysis data,both scanning and tunneling electron micrographs, and small-anglex-ray analysis data obtained from Argonne National Labs. From thisdata we have begun producing activated carbon briquettes that willform the “core” of our tank. We hope to expand the use of thesebriquettes to not only automotive fuel tanks but to natural gastrapping and storage as well." (http://undergradresearch.missouri.edu/events/conferences/abstracts/abstract-detail.php?abstractid=533 )And notice that the opening words are "activated carbon." So Kirk,here's your affirmationAlso noteworthy is that there's this other abstract on theUniversity of Missouri website: "Fuel system design foran Adsorbed Natural Gas Vehicle byAntonio Howard Presented at the 2005 SummerUndergraduate Research and Creative Achievements ForumABSTRACTWith energy and environmentalconcerns mounting as the global energy demand increases, alternativefuels are drawing more and more attention. Natural gas is one suchalternative fuel. However, the major shortcoming of natural gas isthat it must be highly compressed in order to store at a comparableenergy density to liquid fuels. For this reason, The Alliance forCollaborative Research in Alternative Fuel Technology (ALL-CRAFT) aimsto develop low-pressure, high-capacity storage technologies fornatural gas (methane). Midwest Research Institute (MRI), an ALL-CRAFTpartner, is assigned the task of developing a fuel tank and fueldelivery system for a natural gas-powered vehicle modified to storethe natural gas using adsorbed natural gas (ANG) technology. Thedesign work done thus far has dealt with the logistics of modifyingthe vehicle’s fuel delivery system to accommodate the use of the ANGtank in addition to the pre-existing compressed natural gas (CNG)tank. The fuel system of a 2005 Honda Civic GX will be modified byinstalling an ANG fuel tank to serve as an auxiliary tank to theexisting higher pressure CNG tank. Additional capabilities will beadded while maintaining all of its original functions. One suchcapability is running either from its CNG or the ANG tank, withemphasis on maximizing mileage from ANG tank use. Moreover, the CNGtank will be equipped to simultaneously fuel the engine and refill theANG tank upon the latter’s depletion. An on-board CPU will beinstalled to control this modified fuel delivery system and recorddata such as mileage accrued from each tank. The MRI involvement inthe project is only at the end of the first of two stages towardscompletion but this initial research should provide a solid foundationto complete the design." (http://undergradresearch.missouri.edu/events/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
I did a little hyway driving last weekend in my (really my wife's) Prius: at 65 mph we got 54 mpg, 60 about 56 mpg and at 50 mph an honest 61+ mpg. Essentially flat and windless conditions. Zeke Yewdall wrote: Yeah, I know about the getting passed like you are standing still. My truck will do 65 to 70mph on the highway, which isn't bad for a 4 cylinder diesel engine -- probably rated at less horsepower than the stock ford ranger engine in roughly the same size truck. It was funny driving it down through montana and wyoming to colorado -- in wyoming and montana it was fine in the right lane, and the left lane wasn't that much faster except for a few outlying speedsters. But as soon as I crossed the Colorado border, even the right lane was annoyed at me, and the left lane was probably 15 to 20mph faster than me. On 7/19/06, *robert and benita rabello* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their car Although I suppose they don't think of it that way. We just drove for 24 hours going to Los Angeles and back. It's hard to drive slow for that long on the open highway. I put the cruise control on the Camry at 110 km / hour and averaged 6.2 liters / 100 km for the trip. (That's a little over 40 mpg for you who are metrically challenged.) Air conditioning and hills REALLY drain fuel economy, as does going fast. My best fuel mileage occured on flat roads at 90 km / hour, where the car would easily do 5.5 liters / 100 km. The only time we accomplished that kind of economy happened between San Jose and Paso Robles, which is a relatively flat section of highway. But we were often getting passed like we were standing still! Your remark is cogent. I don't think people here actually make the connection between their driving habits and the impact these have on the earth. We saw a fair number of hybrids on the trip--they're becoming more common now--and most of the people who were driving them tried to drive in a more sane manner than the rest of the folk on the freeway. In Los Angeles, however, the hybrids get to use the HOV lanes, and if you're not driving at least 120 km / hour, other motorists become rather annoyed! I put the blower on my truck in part because I eventually intend to run it on some kind of gaseous fuel, but the best thing I can do with that machine is simply NOT drive it at all. Working from home really helps . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
acetylene gas is actually dissolved in acetone, so you dont have a gas but rather a solution. the packing material is simply to keep the liquid from sloshing around. lres1 wrote: I was also under the impression that Acetylene for decades has been kept at reasonable pressures in the cylinders due to the carbon or Kapok filling. I was also to understand that at above 15 psi Acetylene was unstable and thus the need to use a filler to react with the gas. Can some one put me to rights on this. If the above is so then such cylinders have been around for as above decades and thus the carbon, active carbon and Kapok are very old technology. Active carbon filters are also used in some water treatment systems that have been around for many years. can some one out there confirm this also. Doug - Original Message - *From:* John Beale mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2006 6:20 AM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600 You can get it made out of all kinds of things: wood, coal, coconutshells, etc etc. ...and if you look on the University of Missouri website, you findthis abstract: *Synthesis and analysisof activated carbon briquettes as an adsorbent for natural gas *byDemetrius Taylor /Presented at the 2005 SummerUndergraduate Research and Creative Achievements Forum /*ABSTRACT *Activated carbon has been usedfor many years for its adsorptive properties. These adsorptiveproperties are a result of its high surface area to density ratio. Itachieves this through its activation process. During activation anetwork of pores forms throughout the carbon matrix. These pores givethe carbon a very large surface area for outside molecules to adsorbto. By maximizing the distribution of different pore widths one cantailor the carbon to adsorb molecules of differing sizes and duringvarious conditions. Our goal is to develop a natural gas (95% methane)fuel tank that uses corncob produced activated carbon as an adsorptivemedium. To do this we need to maximize the distribution of porediameters that are between 1~2 nanometers (10~20 Angstroms). We arecurrently studying different activation methods and their effect onthe carbon’s adsorptive properties. We have obtained volumetricnitrogen and methane isotherms, gravimetric methane analysis data,both scanning and tunneling electron micrographs, and small-anglex-ray analysis data obtained from Argonne National Labs. From thisdata we have begun producing activated carbon briquettes that willform the “core” of our tank. We hope to expand the use of thesebriquettes to not only automotive fuel tanks but to natural gastrapping and storage as well. (http://undergradresearch.missouri.edu/events/conferences/abstracts/abstract-detail.php?abstractid=533 ) And notice that the opening words are activated carbon. So Kirk,here's your affirmation. ...Also noteworthy is that there's this other abstract on theUniversity of Missouri website: *Fuel system design foran Adsorbed Natural Gas Vehicle *byAntonio Howard /Presented at the 2005 SummerUndergraduate Research and Creative Achievements Forum /*ABSTRACT *With energy and environmentalconcerns mounting as the global energy demand increases, alternativefuels are drawing more and more attention. Natural gas is one suchalternative fuel. However, the major shortcoming of natural gas isthat it must be highly compressed in order to store at a comparableenergy density to liquid fuels. For this reason, The Alliance forCollaborative Research in Alternative Fuel Technology (ALL-CRAFT) aimsto develop low-pressure, high-capacity storage technologies fornatural gas (methane). Midwest Research Institute (MRI), an ALL-CRAFTpartner, is assigned the task of developing a fuel tank and fueldelivery system for a natural gas-powered vehicle modified to storethe natural gas using adsorbed natural gas (ANG) technology. Thedesign work done thus far has dealt with the logistics of modifyingthe vehicle’s fuel delivery system to accommodate the use of the ANGtank in addition to the pre-existing compressed natural gas (CNG)tank. The fuel system of a 2005 Honda Civic GX will be modified byinstalling an ANG fuel tank to serve as an auxiliary tank to theexisting higher pressure CNG tank. Additional capabilities will beadded while maintaining all of its original functions. One suchcapability is running either from its CNG or the ANG tank, withemphasis on maximizing mileage from ANG tank use. Moreover, the CNGtank will be equipped to simultaneously fuel the engine and refill theANG tank upon
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Water and air filters. Many respirators for working in environments with fumes, etc, have activated carbon in them. And, yes, they have been around for decades, Doug. -John On Jul 20, 2006, at 9:09 AM, bob allen wrote: I did a little hyway driving last weekend in my (really my wife's) Prius: at 65 mph we got 54 mpg, 60 about 56 mpg and at 50 mph an honest 61+ mpg. Essentially flat and windless conditions. Zeke Yewdall wrote: Yeah, I know about the getting passed like you are standing still. My truck will do 65 to 70mph on the highway, which isn't bad for a 4 cylinder diesel engine -- probably rated at less horsepower than the stock ford ranger engine in roughly the same size truck. It was funny driving it down through montana and wyoming to colorado -- in wyoming and montana it was fine in the right lane, and the left lane wasn't that much faster except for a few outlying speedsters. But as soon as I crossed the Colorado border, even the right lane was annoyed at me, and the left lane was probably 15 to 20mph faster than me. On 7/19/06, *robert and benita rabello* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their car Although I suppose they don't think of it that way. We just drove for 24 hours going to Los Angeles and back. It's hard to drive slow for that long on the open highway. I put the cruise control on the Camry at 110 km / hour and averaged 6.2 liters / 100 km for the trip. (That's a little over 40 mpg for you who are metrically challenged.) Air conditioning and hills REALLY drain fuel economy, as does going fast. My best fuel mileage occured on flat roads at 90 km / hour, where the car would easily do 5.5 liters / 100 km. The only time we accomplished that kind of economy happened between San Jose and Paso Robles, which is a relatively flat section of highway. But we were often getting passed like we were standing still! Your remark is cogent. I don't think people here actually make the connection between their driving habits and the impact these have on the earth. We saw a fair number of hybrids on the trip--they're becoming more common now--and most of the people who were driving them tried to drive in a more sane manner than the rest of the folk on the freeway. In Los Angeles, however, the hybrids get to use the HOV lanes, and if you're not driving at least 120 km / hour, other motorists become rather annoyed! I put the blower on my truck in part because I eventually intend to run it on some kind of gaseous fuel, but the best thing I can do with that machine is simply NOT drive it at all. Working from home really helps . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobs into hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas. Jesse --- Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the sponge by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas). I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. Zeke On 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas is thereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle of these briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is being stored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to a tank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if the carbon pores soak methane up like a sponge? These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Kirk McLoren wrote: http://columbiamissourian.com/news/story.php?ID=20176 I had to let this settle for a day or so before I could reply. The article is very misleading, beginning with this little gem: Natural gas is also easier to procure: 85 percent of the current U.S. consumption is produced domestically, according to the U.S. Department of Energy, and most of the rest comes from Canada. Uh huh. That will be true for a few more years, but natural gas supplies in North America will plummet after that. The NEA had been publishing data on supply that magically inflated proved reserves to meet demand--much of this from unconventional sources. It's a pipe dream! I believe we're going to have a serious supply problem with natural gas in North America within five years or so. Here's another: The answer is that while automobile engines can burn natural gas without modification, doing so would require a different kind of fuel tank. Storing natural gas requires heavy steel high-pressure cylinders that are expensive and impractical for use in automobiles. Really? No need for pressure regulators, flashback arresters, injectors designed to handle dry fuel, and a re-mapped fuel / spark table? Gaseous fuels, by nature, displace a percentage of air in the intake charge (unless direct injected), which results in reduced power. Without an increased static compression ratio or forced induction, the power loss would generally be unacceptable for North American drivers. (Having just returned from California, where the actual speed most vehicles travel on the highway approaches 90 mph, I just can't see people being willing to accept reduced power.) How about this one, folks? “If we get an investor interested in this technology, it could be revolutionary,” said Sam Swearngin, fleet superintendent in Kansas City. Hang on to your wallets!!! And here we have more nonsense: Pfeifer said he hopes his invention will spark the interest of carmakers, with whom he is seeking partnerships. His grant from the National Science Foundation is running out, but Pfeifer said he hopes it will be renewed. He said he is also hoping the U.S. Department of Energy will help fund his research, which is why he is working on applying it to hydrogen, another potential alternative fuel source that has been drawing more attention than natural gas. The Holy Grail of hydrogen rears it's ugly head again. Hydrogen is NOT a fuel. Then the inventor adds to his folly: Pfeifer said he approves of hydrogen and biofuels initiatives, but does not think they can meet the country’s immediate energy needs. “It’s misleading to believe that this will solve our large-scale problems,” he said. “Hydrogen will not be with us until the year 2020. If (natural gas) became a national goal, we could do this in two or three years.” So lets burn up all of our natural gas driving big SUVs at close to 90 mph on the freeway, because biofuels won't cut it, and hydrogen--as usual--is about 15 years into the future. (I've been hearing this since the Gemini program . . . ) Why do people NOT get that we have to use less before ANY solution becomes viable? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
I think he is making "activated charcoal" You can buy it in 55 gallon drums. I think the commercial product is made from peach pits. You need to transfer it quickly as it adsorbs all sorts of stuff. I think gas mask filters use this stuff.KirkJesse Frayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobsinto hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas.Jesse--- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the "sponge" by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas). I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. Zeke On 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas is thereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle of these briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is being stored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to a tank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if the carbon pores "soak methane up like a sponge?" These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
You can get it made out of all kinds of things: wood, coal, coconut shells, etc etc. ...and if you look on the University of Missouri website, you find this abstract: Synthesis and analysis of activated carbon briquettes as an adsorbent for natural gas x-tad-biggerby Demetrius Taylor /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerPresented at the 2005 Summer Undergraduate Research and Creative Achievements Forum /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerABSTRACT/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Activated carbon has been used for many years for its adsorptive properties. These adsorptive properties are a result of its high surface area to density ratio. It achieves this through its activation process. During activation a network of pores forms throughout the carbon matrix. These pores give the carbon a very large surface area for outside molecules to adsorb to. By maximizing the distribution of different pore widths one can tailor the carbon to adsorb molecules of differing sizes and during various conditions. Our goal is to develop a natural gas (95% methane) fuel tank that uses corncob produced activated carbon as an adsorptive medium. To do this we need to maximize the distribution of pore diameters that are between 1~2 nanometers (10~20 Angstroms). We are currently studying different activation methods and their effect on the carbon’s adsorptive properties. We have obtained volumetric nitrogen and methane isotherms, gravimetric methane analysis data, both scanning and tunneling electron micrographs, and small-angle x-ray analysis data obtained from Argonne National Labs. From this data we have begun producing activated carbon briquettes that will form the “core” of our tank. We hope to expand the use of these briquettes to not only automotive fuel tanks but to natural gas trapping and storage as well./x-tad-bigger ( http://undergradresearch.missouri.edu/events/conferences/abstracts/abstract-detail.php?abstractid=533 ) And notice that the opening words are activated carbon. So Kirk, here's your affirmation. ...Also noteworthy is that there's this other abstract on the University of Missouri website: Fuel system design for an Adsorbed Natural Gas Vehicle x-tad-biggerby Antonio Howard /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerPresented at the 2005 Summer Undergraduate Research and Creative Achievements Forum /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerABSTRACT/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerWith energy and environmental concerns mounting as the global energy demand increases, alternative fuels are drawing more and more attention. Natural gas is one such alternative fuel. However, the major shortcoming of natural gas is that it must be highly compressed in order to store at a comparable energy density to liquid fuels. For this reason, The Alliance for Collaborative Research in Alternative Fuel Technology (ALL-CRAFT) aims to develop low-pressure, high-capacity storage technologies for natural gas (methane). Midwest Research Institute (MRI), an ALL-CRAFT partner, is assigned the task of developing a fuel tank and fuel delivery system for a natural gas-powered vehicle modified to store the natural gas using adsorbed natural gas (ANG) technology. The design work done thus far has dealt with the logistics of modifying the vehicle’s fuel delivery system to accommodate the use of the ANG tank in addition to the pre-existing compressed natural gas (CNG) tank. The fuel system of a 2005 Honda Civic GX will be modified by installing an ANG fuel tank to serve as an auxiliary tank to the existing higher pressure CNG tank. Additional capabilities will be added while maintaining all of its original functions. One such capability is running either from its CNG or the ANG tank, with emphasis on maximizing mileage from ANG tank use. Moreover, the CNG tank will be equipped to simultaneously fuel the engine and refill the ANG tank upon the latter’s depletion. An on-board CPU will be installed to control this modified fuel delivery system and record data such as mileage accrued from each tank. The MRI involvement in the project is only at the end of the first of two stages towards completion but this initial research should provide a solid foundation to complete the design./x-tad-bigger ( http://undergradresearch.missouri.edu/events/conferences/abstracts/abstract-detail.php?abstractid=446 ) -John On Jul 19, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote: I think he is making activated charcoal You can buy it in 55 gallon drums. I think the commercial product is made from peach pits. You need to transfer it quickly as it adsorbs all sorts of stuff. I think gas mask filters use this stuff. Kirk Jesse Frayne [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobs into hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas. Jesse --- Zeke Yewdall wrote: > If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you > get it out of the sponge > by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it > released alot of
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Without anincreased static compression ratio or forced induction, the power losswould generally be unacceptable for North American drivers. (Having justreturned from California, where the actual speed most vehicles travel on the highway approaches 90 mph, I just can't see people being willing toaccept reduced power.)Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their car Although I suppose they don't think of it that way. On 7/19/06, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he is making activated charcoal You can buy it in 55 gallon drums. I think the commercial product is made from peach pits. You need to transfer it quickly as it adsorbs all sorts of stuff. I think gas mask filters use this stuff. KirkJesse Frayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much energy does it take to make ground corn cobs into hockey pucks? In this oxygen-free environment. So you can then burn natural gas.Jesse--- Zeke Yewdall wrote: If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the sponge by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas). I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. Zeke On 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas is thereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle of these briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is being stored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to a tank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if the carbon pores soak methane up like a sponge? These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Zeke Yewdall wrote: Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their car Although I suppose they don't think of it that way. We just drove for 24 hours going to Los Angeles and back. It's hard to drive slow for that long on the open highway. I put the cruise control on the Camry at 110 km / hour and averaged 6.2 liters / 100 km for the trip. (That's a little over 40 mpg for you who are metrically challenged.) Air conditioning and hills REALLY drain fuel economy, as does going fast. My best fuel mileage occured on flat roads at 90 km / hour, where the car would easily do 5.5 liters / 100 km. The only time we accomplished that kind of economy happened between San Jose and Paso Robles, which is a relatively flat section of highway. But we were often getting passed like we were standing still! Your remark is cogent. I don't think people here actually make the connection between their driving habits and the impact these have on the earth. We saw a fair number of hybrids on the trip--they're becoming more common now--and most of the people who were driving them tried to drive in a more sane manner than the rest of the folk on the freeway. In Los Angeles, however, the hybrids get to use the HOV lanes, and if you're not driving at least 120 km / hour, other motorists become rather annoyed! I put the blower on my truck in part because I eventually intend to run it on some kind of gaseous fuel, but the best thing I can do with that machine is simply NOT drive it at all. Working from home really helps . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Yeah, I know about the getting passed like you are standing still. My truck will do 65 to 70mph on the highway, which isn't bad for a 4 cylinder diesel engine -- probably rated at less horsepower than the stock ford ranger engine in roughly the same size truck. It was funny driving it down through montana and wyoming to colorado -- in wyoming and montana it was fine in the right lane, and the left lane wasn't that much faster except for a few outlying speedsters. But as soon as I crossed the Colorado border, even the right lane was annoyed at me, and the left lane was probably 15 to 20mph faster than me. On 7/19/06, robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: Isn't that interesting that the North American driver is willing to sacrifice the world and condemn billions of people to a slow painful death, rather than accept a 10% decrease in how fast they can go in their carAlthough I suppose they don't think of it that way.We just drove for 24 hours going to Los Angeles and back.It's hardto drive slow for that long on the open highway.I put the cruise control on the Camry at 110 km / hour and averaged 6.2 liters / 100 kmfor the trip.(That's a little over 40 mpg for you who are metricallychallenged.)Air conditioning and hills REALLY drain fuel economy, as does going fast.My best fuel mileage occured on flat roads at 90 km /hour, where the car would easily do 5.5 liters / 100 km.The only timewe accomplished that kind of economy happened between San Jose and Paso Robles, which is a relatively flat section of highway.But we were often getting passed like we were standing still!Your remark is cogent.I don't think people here actually make theconnection between their driving habits and the impact these have on the earth.We saw a fair number of hybrids on the trip--they're becomingmore common now--and most of the people who were driving them tried todrive in a more sane manner than the rest of the folk on the freeway. In Los Angeles, however, the hybrids get to use the HOV lanes, and ifyou're not driving at least 120 km / hour, other motorists become ratherannoyed!I put the blower on my truck in part because I eventually intend to run it on some kind of gaseous fuel, but the best thing I can do withthat machine is simply NOT drive it at all.Working from home reallyhelps . . .robert luis rabelloThe Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
http://columbiamissourian.com/news/story.php?ID=20176 Missourian News June 8, 2006 Breakthrough signals future low-cost fuel Automotive gas tanks arent yet compatible for the natural gas By ISABELLE ROUGHOLprint story e-mail story contact us Lacy Hardcastle, an MU physics major, finishes preparing ground corncob to be heated into carbon. This is part of MU professor Peter Pfeifers research project, which could allow vehicles to run on natural gases within the next five years. (Matt Heindl/ Missourian) MU physics professor Peter Pfeifer has been buying ground corncob by the pound as part of a research project that could put a natural-gas tank in many American cars in the next five years. Pfeifer and his team heat the ground cobs at high temperatures in an oxygen-free atmosphere to reduce them to carbon, which is then pressed into round one-inch thick briquettes. Its almost like charcoal that you put on your Fourth of July barbecue, Pfeifer said. Some people call them the Missouri hockey pucks. Then 216 carbon briquettes are placed into aluminum tubes. To the untrained eye, it seems they are taking up space but in fact, the carbon provides greater storage capacity for natural gas than an empty tank. Natural gas is cheaper and cleaner-burning than gasoline. The equivalent in natural gas of one gallon of unleaded gasoline costs $1.40 or the price of about a half gallon of gas. Burning natural gas produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions, and it produces virtually no exhaust. Natural gas is also easier to procure: 85 percent of the current U.S. consumption is produced domestically, according to the U.S. Department of Energy, and most of the rest comes from Canada. If its such a winning proposition, why arent you and I using such cars? Pfeifer said. The answer is that while automobile engines can burn natural gas without modification, doing so would require a different kind of fuel tank. Storing natural gas requires heavy steel high-pressure cylinders that are expensive and impractical for use in automobiles. You have to give up your trunk space or passenger space, Pfeifer said. Only six stations sell natural gas in Missouri, and four of them only sell to local governments who use natural gas vehicles, or NGVs, for public transportation and other government functions. Gas stations resist offering natural gas because of the high cost of storing and distributing it and because there are very few NGVs on the market today. Kansas City has a central fleet of 218 NGVs. Next month, a team from the Midwest Research Institute led by Phil Buckley, who works with Pfeifer, will mount a prototype low-pressure tank on a pickup truck owned by the city. If the experiment works, Pfeifer and his team will have overcome the biggest obstacle to a wider use of NGVs. They could also help convince the automotive industry to begin building cars and trucks that burn natural gas. If we get an investor interested in this technology, it could be revolutionary, said Sam Swearngin, fleet superintendent in Kansas City. Peter Pfeifer has converted ground corncob into gas-storing carbon briquettes. He says natural gas is a better fuel. (MATT HEINDL/ Missourian) Pfeifers coworkers in MUs department of physics jokingly call him a fractalist. A floor-to-ceiling bookshelf in his office is dedicated to the topic of fractals, his lifes work. Fractals are objects in which a pattern is constantly repeated so that no matter the scale, the object always looks the same. Think cauliflower: A head of the vegetable looks like one of the flowers, which is composed of smaller flowers, and so on. As you zoom in, the substructure looks like the whole, Pfeifer said. Cumulus clouds and human lungs are fractals. So are the pores inside the carbon that is produced by charring the ground corncobs. These microscopic cavities in the carbon, nanopores, hold the natural gas 95 percent of which is methane. Those pores are almost like a sponge, they suck up the methane, Pfeifer said. In this carbon, the methane, at a much lower pressure, is held at almost the same density as it would be in big cylinder tanks. Because the pressure is low, 500 pounds per square inch instead of 3,600, the tank can be made flat and rectangular, allowing it to be attached to a car like a regular gasoline tank. Until Pfeifers work, that was considered impossible for a natural gas tank because a rectangular shape is less resistant to high pressure. At high pressure, this would blow up in your face, Pfeifer said. The carbon system could also be used to capture the methane that emanates from landfills and transport it to central processing facilities, thus transforming a pollutant methane is a greenhouse gas four times more potent than carbon dioxide into a renewable energy. If it becomes a reality, Pfeifers tank could be another energy-related benefit for the region. Corn farmers already stand to gain from
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas is thereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle of these briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is being stored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to a tank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if the carbon pores soak methane up like a sponge? These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the sponge by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas).I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. ZekeOn 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas isthereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle ofthese briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is beingstored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to atank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if thecarbon pores soak methane up like a sponge?These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] breakthrough - store CH4 at 500psi instead of 3600
I would always assume that adsorption requires clean gas. Biogas is not methane. It has hydrogen sulphide and CO2 in abundance and would have to be cleaned. Natural gas probably too. Filtration is much easier these days. Perhaps our resident chemistry professor would care to make a comment.KirkZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's like the hydride storage of hydrogen, you get it out of the "sponge" by heating it. And when you are putting it in, it released alot of heat (just as if you were compressing gas).I bet small contaminations (such as from biogass produced methane) would poison the sponge -- I know that the hydride storage tanks are pretty sensitive to that. Zeke On 7/18/06, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting indeed, but what I don't see is how densely the gas isthereafter stored. As in, for a say 10-gallon gas tank sized bundle ofthese briquettes, how much gasoline equivalent natural gas is beingstored? A gallon per gallon equivalent? Two? Three? How much does the whole assemblage, tank plus briquettes plus gas, weigh compared to atank of gas or ethanol? For that matter, how's the gas extracted if thecarbon pores "soak methane up like a sponge?"These are the questions whose answers interest me most. -Kurt___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
