Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
hi steven hakan falk recently posted a useful link in reply to the hybrid vehicle thread. the link is: http://energysavingnow.com/biofuels/dieseltech.shtml at the bottom of the page is another link to a talk given by an exec of Bosch USA that discusses the impact on U.S. fuel consumption and pollution if the U.S. increased the percentage of diesel passenger vehicles. currently, one percent of U.S. new vehicle sales are diesel. he looks at the impact if the U.S. went to forty and eighty percent diesel-equipped new vehicle sales by 2010. quite interesting. perhaps you could extrapolate to biodiesel from his numbers. it might help you check your numbers for your presentation to the sierra club. good luck, rob steven mesibov wrote: Keith, John, Thanks for the response. Hopefully the Club Sierra will be fairly well controled, if for no other reason than I was invited by one of the directors! :-) As far as the right questions to ask: My approach is that no one solution is going to fix the problem. The problem is far to complex and developed over to many years. But as any MBA knows, the real cost is always at the margin: What would happen if we reduced our dependance on foriegn oil by 2%? 5%? Prices may not go down much but they would certainly tend to go down if all other things remaining the same. Of course demand won't remain the same, its going to go up as it has been for years. And that needs to be addressed. But as for me, thats a topic for another day... I'm focusing on the topic of my talk: A Step in the Right Direction Steve Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
Thanks Rob! Those are some excellent links with good overview points. I'll try to incorporate some of that in my next talk. Tonight's presentation to the Sierra Club went extremely well. They let me ramble on for over an hour while interrupting many times to ask some excellent questions. Except for one gadfly (what happens to the sodium or potassium in the wash water? Won't it contaminate drinking water or fields...) every one was extremely positive. In fact one guy with business and political connections thought I was thinking too small when I proposed a coop type partnership. He suggested I approach Stetson University (yes, the one started by the hat guy here in Deland, FL) business school for a business development grant or even the county council to fuel the local school buses etc. He even thought that the University would love to jump all over a green project and will approach the University president! We might even get a lot of student interest and support similar to Piedmont and UNC. Three of us are meeting this coming Monday night here in Deland to plot strategy. If anyone out there would like to join us, just let me know! Thanks again! Steve --- rob crowley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi steven hakan falk recently posted a useful link in reply to the hybrid vehicle thread. the link is: http://energysavingnow.com/biofuels/dieseltech.shtml at the bottom of the page is another link to a talk given by an exec of Bosch USA that discusses the impact on U.S. fuel consumption and pollution if the U.S. increased the percentage of diesel passenger vehicles. currently, one percent of U.S. new vehicle sales are diesel. he looks at the impact if the U.S. went to forty and eighty percent diesel-equipped new vehicle sales by 2010. quite interesting. perhaps you could extrapolate to biodiesel from his numbers. it might help you check your numbers for your presentation to the sierra club. good luck, rob steven mesibov wrote: Keith, John, Thanks for the response. Hopefully the Club Sierra will be fairly well controled, if for no other reason than I was invited by one of the directors! :-) As far as the right questions to ask: My approach is that no one solution is going to fix the problem. The problem is far to complex and developed over to many years. But as any MBA knows, the real cost is always at the margin: What would happen if we reduced our dependance on foriegn oil by 2%? 5%? Prices may not go down much but they would certainly tend to go down if all other things remaining the same. Of course demand won't remain the same, its going to go up as it has been for years. And that needs to be addressed. But as for me, thats a topic for another day... I'm focusing on the topic of my talk: A Step in the Right Direction Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
Keith, John, Thanks for the response. Hopefully the Club Sierra will be fairly well controled, if for no other reason than I was invited by one of the directors! :-) As far as the right questions to ask: My approach is that no one solution is going to fix the problem. The problem is far to complex and developed over to many years. But as any MBA knows, the real cost is always at the margin: What would happen if we reduced our dependance on foriegn oil by 2%? 5%? Prices may not go down much but they would certainly tend to go down if all other things remaining the same. Of course demand won't remain the same, its going to go up as it has been for years. And that needs to be addressed. But as for me, thats a topic for another day... I'm focusing on the topic of my talk: A Step in the Right Direction Steve --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Steve I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. :-) If you mention the D-word there the sky will fall on your head. Actually, if you can even get them to listen, you're doing very well! Good for you. Others here have tried and got nowhere. Which might be why it's often known here as Club Sierra. If you find accurate data on the amount of WVO available in the US, let alone it's fate, then again you're doing much better than anyone else here has done. (Please let us know!) The best we can do is that it's about 2 or 3 billion gallons a year, and that about 10% of it is accounted for, which is about average for the OECD countries. Estimates we've seen for the US, the UK and other industrialised countries vary by up to a factor of 10. Which is quite an eye-opener in itself. If you can't get accurate figures, that very fact is worth presenting - why not? Yet we're supposed to pretend that government or anyone else is taking biofuels and climate change seriously? I can see you're trying to answer the usual question of whether there'll be enough biofuels. We tend to think it's the wrong question. Enough for what? To replace current fossil-fuel use? Or some estimate of future use, based on projections of current growth rates? That's what the US DoE has done in its estimates for biodiesel expansion. Why would current growth rates be sustainable, no matter what fuel was used? Current usage rates aren't sustainable either. The related question is How much biofuels can we grow? The answer, based on the same fallacy, is usually, Not enough, so let's just forget the whole thing. People have said this is a tactic used to dismiss alternatives, picking them off this way one by one - as if current energy supply is dependent on only one source, only one technology. A rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and the decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable technologie in combination as the local circumstances demand. That makes for rather a different prospect for WVO's role in future fuel supplies. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Again, wrong question. Any number you get would be meaningless. Please have a look at these previous messages: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/37289/ Re: [biofuel] Biofuels and sustainability http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? HTH Best Keith Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
steven mesibov wrote: I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Actually, I don't find that to be a very meaningful number in a free market. If the demand created for domestically produced biofuels out strips the latent supply of WVO, or even SVO for biodiesel production, new non-food oil feedstocks will enter the marketplace. These feedstocks could include dual purpose crops such as mustard, or it could include novel feedstocks such as algae-sourced oil. Mike Briggs at UNH is currently working in this area. Here is a nice little summary: http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html All that having been said, I *believe* that the current US WVO supply could displace about 7% of petrodiesel use. However, I don't have a citation so don't quote me. John Hayes Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
Hello Steve I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. :-) If you mention the D-word there the sky will fall on your head. Actually, if you can even get them to listen, you're doing very well! Good for you. Others here have tried and got nowhere. Which might be why it's often known here as Club Sierra. If you find accurate data on the amount of WVO available in the US, let alone it's fate, then again you're doing much better than anyone else here has done. (Please let us know!) The best we can do is that it's about 2 or 3 billion gallons a year, and that about 10% of it is accounted for, which is about average for the OECD countries. Estimates we've seen for the US, the UK and other industrialised countries vary by up to a factor of 10. Which is quite an eye-opener in itself. If you can't get accurate figures, that very fact is worth presenting - why not? Yet we're supposed to pretend that government or anyone else is taking biofuels and climate change seriously? I can see you're trying to answer the usual question of whether there'll be enough biofuels. We tend to think it's the wrong question. Enough for what? To replace current fossil-fuel use? Or some estimate of future use, based on projections of current growth rates? That's what the US DoE has done in its estimates for biodiesel expansion. Why would current growth rates be sustainable, no matter what fuel was used? Current usage rates aren't sustainable either. The related question is How much biofuels can we grow? The answer, based on the same fallacy, is usually, Not enough, so let's just forget the whole thing. People have said this is a tactic used to dismiss alternatives, picking them off this way one by one - as if current energy supply is dependent on only one source, only one technology. A rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and the decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable technologie in combination as the local circumstances demand. That makes for rather a different prospect for WVO's role in future fuel supplies. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Again, wrong question. Any number you get would be meaningless. Please have a look at these previous messages: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/37289/ Re: [biofuel] Biofuels and sustainability http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? HTH Best Keith Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
