[Biofuel] Biodiesel Reserve (Thailand) Up to 59 million litres
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/News-Feed-30271503.html THE NATION October 24, 2015 1:00 am TRANSPORT INVESTMENT FOR ECONOMY: MINISTER The government's investment in transport infrastructures is meant to stimulate the economy and increase the country's competitiveness, Government Spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said yesterday. He said the government was trying to ensure that the Thai economy does not spiral down with the rest of the world's economies, while ensuring that all of its projects are carried out with transparency and can be scrutinised by the public. "The main objectives are to support the expansion of the economy both in the short and long terms," he told reporters. BIODIESEL RESERVE Fourteen fuel distributors have agreed to reserve more biodiesel (B100), starting from November 1, as a way to alleviate the impacts of a palm-oil oversupply, according to the Department of Energy Business (DOEB), which insisted the policy would have no impact on retail fuel sales. Witoon Kulcharoenwirat, director-general of the DOEB, said that under the plan to increase the biodiesel reserve, about 59 million litres of additional palm oil could be purchased. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hi Keith ; You guys are way ahead of me. Have you checked the Biofuels-biz list archives for information on processing Crude Palm Oil (CPO)? I doubt that's in your book. Try a search here for Allen, check messages about high-FFA oils and so on: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ Yes, apparently there are ways of harvesting and pre-treating the fruit to reduce FFA's to a minimum. Brusied fruti causes large increases in FFA formation. Short sterilization immediately after harvesting stops FFA formation. I'll post more as I learn. Just getting started. By the way, are you aware of the trials with sunflower oil being conducted by Suncare Fuels and Tsukuba University with Lao refugees on 600,000 hectares in Northern Thailand? They're expecting to produce 126,000 kilolitres of biodiesel per 100,000 hectares, half of it to be sold locally. Now we're talking. When I say there is not enough waste oil to make a difference, it doesn't mean don't use waste oil. It means let's think about some other possible feedstocks in addition to waste oil. I'll try to look into why they chose sunflower. They know more than me. Could be for harvesting ease, pest resistance, soil or fertilizer requirement, etc. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hi Keith ; Another thought on this thread : By the way, are you aware of the trials with sunflower oil being conducted by Suncare Fuels and Tsukuba University with Lao refugees on 600,000 hectares in Northern Thailand? They're expecting to produce 126,000 kilolitres of biodiesel per 100,000 hectares, half of it to be sold locally. Let's all hope it really benefits the Lao refugees, Thai's, and the earth in general and doesn't end up in a quagmire of corruption like the plantations started in Cambodia. Read the whole depressing story at : http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/47/Cambodia.html Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand ___ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hi Peter Hi Keith ; Another thought on this thread : By the way, are you aware of the trials with sunflower oil being conducted by Suncare Fuels and Tsukuba University with Lao refugees on 600,000 hectares in Northern Thailand? They're expecting to produce 126,000 kilolitres of biodiesel per 100,000 hectares, half of it to be sold locally. I haven't been there so I don't know for sure, but they're friends of ours, they seem very aware, they're after providing benefit as well as making profit, they're interested in sustainability - for instance, they're aware that this is a monocropping scheme and want to change that, integrate it more. I think it should be good. We have quite a few friends working on different projects in Thailand. Let's all hope it really benefits the Lao refugees, Thai's, and the earth in general and doesn't end up in a quagmire of corruption like the plantations started in Cambodia. Read the whole depressing story at : http://www.wrm.org.uy/bulletin/47/Cambodia.html Yes. :-( Not the only depressing story about oil palms, sad to say: http://www.foei.org/media/2004/0803.html Rainforest Destruction In Your Shopping Basket London (UK) March 8, 2004 -- Research released today reveals that the booming trade in palm oil, used in everyday products such as chocolate, margarine, shampoo and detergents is fuelling the destruction of rainforests in South East Asia, and leading to human rights abuses and devastating pollution. [more] See: 'Greasy palms - palm oil, the environment and big business' - summary: http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/reports/palm_oil_summary.pdf http://www.wrm.org.uy/plantations/material/oilpalm.html The Bitter Fruit of Oil Palm Poisoned and Silenced: A Study of Pesticide Poisoning in the Plantations, 2002* Tenaganita and Pesticide Action Network Asia and the Pacific. Examines working conditions on palm oil plantations in Malaysia, focusing on the effects of pesticides on workers (predominantly women). Reports a lack of safe equipment, protective clothing, availability of safety and rights information and education, appropriate medical care, and supportive local legislation. 67 pages. US$10.00, plus postage: $1.50 within Asia/Pacific, $2.50 elsewhere. Contact Pesticide Action Network Asia and the Pacific; P.O. Box 1170, 10850 Penang, Malaysia; phone (604) 657 0271; fax (604) 657 7445; email [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Web site http://www.panap.net Full report in pdf format online: http://www.panap.net/highlights1.cfm?id=16hiliteid=HILITE04 A Study of Pesticide Poisoning in the Plantations ... Although prohibited by Indonesian law, a new WWF report says that clearing of natural forest for plantations still continues here. For economic reasons and due to poor governmental control, logging and estate companies do not use widely available degraded lands for oil palm plantations. Instead, they set fire to natural forests on their concessions after having removed all the valuable timber, and then convert the cleared land to plantations.The fires themselves can lead to further forest loss. The horrendous fires that swept through Indonesia in 1997 - burning down an area of rainforest bigger than the Netherlands and sending up smoke that reached as far as Brunei, Singapore, the Philippines, and Thailand - have been blamed on fires that were deliberately lit to clear forest for oil palm and other crops and then got out of hand because of a prolonged drought. [More] http://www.panda.org/news_facts/newsroom/features/news.cfm?uNewsID=4941 See full report: http://www.panda.org/downloads/forests/oilpalmindonesia.pdf However, this last report also mentions an initiative by the Malaysian Palm Oil Association, WWF, and Unilever to develop sustainable palm oil production methods. Any crop can be produced sustainably and with benefit. Best wishes Keith Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand ___ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hello Peter G. snip Please don't mis-understand. I am very pro biodiesel. It is just that I feel we need a better feedstock than used frying oil to make a difference. That's why I plan to develope a palm oil plantation. I bought a very detailed (and expensive) technical book on how to do it, and it is not a simple project. I am trying to germinate my first plam seeds now. Have you checked the Biofuels-biz list archives for information on processing Crude Palm Oil (CPO)? I doubt that's in your book. Try a search here for Allen, check messages about high-FFA oils and so on: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ If your read the posts from Conrad (thanks Conrad), you'll see that the government biodiesel program is just a blend of 20% palm oil and diesel, not true biodiesel. Step by step, I guess. There's a LOT about that in the archives, but it's pretty much overtaken by now. I do know the true story of all this, but it was told to me in confidence so I'll keep it to myself. Anyway, the Thai government biodiesel program is not just a blend of 20% palm oil and diesel, it is indeed true biodiesel. Did you know, for instance, that Chiang Mai is now using B2 (2% biodiesel blended with petro-diesel) on a trial basis before its introduction throughout Thailand? Work is now going ahead there on waste oil initiatives, and quite right too. It's a mistake to try to find a single answer to the entire problem, any real solution must comprise contributions from whatever can contribute, and WVO most certainly can contribute. By the way, are you aware of the trials with sunflower oil being conducted by Suncare Fuels and Tsukuba University with Lao refugees on 600,000 hectares in Northern Thailand? They're expecting to produce 126,000 kilolitres of biodiesel per 100,000 hectares, half of it to be sold locally. Best wishes Keith Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hi Peggy, Do you have any reference or web links to the process? It would be another interesting area to look at. Hi Peter, Just got back. I think that Cambodia is a really good target. Since as you said there's no oil refinery there. My initial gut feeling was that BD can be developed in Vietnam also. But I have since found out that Vietname has just constructed an oil refinery and it should begin operational soon. I hope that your venture in Cambodia will be successful. Do keep us updated. God Bless, Caleb --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you. Yes I live about 30 minutes north of Bangkok. I have lived here for over 10 years. I am a techno type, with experience in many areas (electronic circuit design, mechanical machine design, pcb board manufacturing, analysis laboratory). The thing about renewable energy is it almost never pays the bills. Unfortunately, the people most interested in renewable energy are cheap charlies (sorry list members). That includes me. I have always had a gut
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hello Peter, The study was done in Hawaii and I will have to search in my notes to send the reference paper location. I looked in my technical references and the complete reference was not there. (It was inserted later by one of my colleagues). It's somewhere, but will take a little time to unearth. In the meantime, you may find it on the Internet if you look for a Hawaii study on fuel ethanol using paper. Our researchers are working with various biochemical innovations to further enhance the process. I'll post our good news when we have a proven process. Peggy Hi Peggy, Do you have any reference or web links to the process? It would be another interesting area to look at. Hi Peter, Just got back. I think that Cambodia is a really good target. Since as you said there's no oil refinery there. My initial gut feeling was that BD can be developed in Vietnam also. But I have since found out that Vietname has just constructed an oil refinery and it should begin operational soon. I hope that your venture in Cambodia will be successful. Do keep us updated. God Bless, Caleb --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
See: Ethanol from cellulose http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose It's the sixth one in the list. Keith Hello Peter, The study was done in Hawaii and I will have to search in my notes to send the reference paper location. I looked in my technical references and the complete reference was not there. (It was inserted later by one of my colleagues). It's somewhere, but will take a little time to unearth. In the meantime, you may find it on the Internet if you look for a Hawaii study on fuel ethanol using paper. Our researchers are working with various biochemical innovations to further enhance the process. I'll post our good news when we have a proven process. Peggy Hi Peggy, Do you have any reference or web links to the process? It would be another interesting area to look at. Hi Peter, Just got back. I think that Cambodia is a really good target. Since as you said there's no oil refinery there. My initial gut feeling was that BD can be developed in Vietnam also. But I have since found out that Vietname has just constructed an oil refinery and it should begin operational soon. I hope that your venture in Cambodia will be successful. Do keep us updated. God Bless, Caleb --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you. Yes I live about 30 minutes north of Bangkok. I have lived here for over 10 years. I am a techno type, with experience in many areas (electronic circuit design, mechanical machine design, pcb board manufacturing, analysis laboratory). The thing about renewable energy is it almost never pays the bills. Unfortunately, the people most interested in renewable energy are cheap charlies (sorry list members). That includes me. I have always had a gut feeling that renewable energy was the way to turn back the juggernaut. I have a plan to develop a small oil palm plantation in Cambodia (100-200 ht, 1-2 sq kilometer) with my brother (not my biological brother, but the asian style soul mate brother). Land is very cheap, only $100 per acre. Most of the oil will be sold locally, but biodiesel is an excellent way to utilize the excess. Our business plan appears to show that for every dollar invested, we get an annual return after expenses of $1. In other words, 100% annual return on investment. This assumes stable oil prices.
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hi Peggy ; Yes I bought a small autoclave to try out converting waste cardboard to ethanol by dilute acid hydrolysis. Truckloads of cardboard waste from all over Cambodia come back to Thailand through Poipet for recycling. It can be had for 2 baht/kg (about $0.05 per kg). Now that is a cheap feedstock. Please don't mis-understand. I am very pro biodiesel. It is just that I feel we need a better feedstock than used frying oil to make a difference. That's why I plan to develope a palm oil plantation. I bought a very detailed (and expensive) technical book on how to do it, and it is not a simple project. I am trying to germinate my first plam seeds now. If your read the posts from Conrad (thanks Conrad), you'll see that the government biodiesel program is just a blend of 20% palm oil and diesel, not true biodiesel. Step by step, I guess. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Peggy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you.
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hello Peggy, Peter, Caleb and all Hello Peter, It is possible to make fuel ethanol from discarded paper and food waste (non-dairy and no meat) making fuel ethanol another alternative to biodiesel as well. Peggy Indeed - and the more localised the approach, down to community, farm and even family level, the more options you find, with several different ready-to-use renewable technologies available to use in combination as best fits the circumstances, with biodiesel and ethanol being two of them. WVO? Does either Thailand or Singapore have accurate, reliable data on how much is available and what happens to it? I doubt it. So, if not, have they even really begun to think about these problems yet? At central level maybe, but this cannot be done effectively by central command, anymore than recycling bottles and aluminium cans can be (not even in Singapore, I reckon) - the centralised approach might achieve 10%, a localised, community approach from 90% to 100%. It's the same with biofuels. What sort of trees are growing in the streets? Not oil-bearing trees? Ah, but that's another department's responsibility, hmm? Yes, quite. Best wishes Keith Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you. Yes I live about 30 minutes
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.- Biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock.
Hi Caleb ;; I agree with you 100% about used frying oil being a questionable feedstock. There simply isn't enough of it to make any significant business out of it, and it is spread out over a large geographic area. Yes, sure the backyard tinkeres can make a go of it. But as soon as you start to buy any significant quantites, the price will surely rise, plus you have significant collection costs. You can estimate the available quantity by trying to think about how much frying oil you personally use, then add in some extra to account for the fried donut or fried chicken that you ate at the restaurant. Then compare that to how much diesel you use. Then add in the diesel used for your electricity, all the transportation costs to bring your food to the supermarket, ect. For me I use about 100 times more diesel than frying oil. So then we could roughly estimate that if a city uses for example 1 million liters of diesel a month, there would be 10,000 liters of used frying oil. But only a small fraction could be recocovered (you couln't recover the used frying oil that I personally use, for example). My conclusion is that a very small number of people could make it work, but as soon as a few more people try, supplies will dry up. That's why biodiesel is irrelevant without an abundant feedstock. Please don't forget about all the people dying, being killed, destroyed lives in the middle east over oil wars. Then add in the huge cost in military hardware, all the lost productivity of the men figting instead of working, and I'm not so sure that the cost of diesel is lower than the cost of biodiesel made from palm oil. Yes Malasia is the world leader in palm oil plantations, so this would not interest you. But Cambodia has no oil plantation and no oil wells either. They are net importers of both commodities. So they are very interested in both possibilities. Yes please keep me infomed about the BioFuel conference in December. Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you. Yes I live about 30 minutes north of Bangkok. I have lived here for over 10 years. I am a techno type, with experience in many areas (electronic circuit design, mechanical machine design, pcb board manufacturing, analysis laboratory). The thing about renewable energy is it almost never pays the bills. Unfortunately, the people most interested in renewable energy are cheap charlies (sorry list members). That includes me. I have always had a gut feeling that renewable energy was the way to turn back the juggernaut. I have a plan to develop a small oil palm plantation in Cambodia (100-200 ht, 1-2 sq kilometer) with my brother (not my biological brother, but the asian style soul mate brother). Land is very cheap, only $100 per acre. Most of the oil will be sold locally, but biodiesel is an excellent way to utilize the excess. Our business plan appears to show that for every dollar invested, we get an annual return after expenses of $1. In other words, 100% annual return on investment. This assumes stable oil prices. If global oil prices rise, our profits rise accordingly. Additionally, this does not include land price appreciation (due to improvements, inflation, etc). You need to be a
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.
Hi Gaug, Thanks for replying. I'm based in Singapore, but I come from Malaysia. In Malaysia there are plenty of palm oil plantations. The industry is well established. There was a push for BioDiesel back during the 2002. But since then Palm oil prices have risen by almost 100%, which makes it more profitable at the moment to export it overseas as cooking oil than to convert it to biodiesel for local consumption. Though rising oil prices might actually reverse all that. Diesel prices in Malaysia is far too cheap. According to the latest prices, we're the second cheapest after brunei. So pushing for BioDiesel is going to be hard in Malaysia. Plus we're a net exporter of crude oil. I have plans as you to perhaps develope a small biodiesel industry in Singapore based on used cooking oil. Still doing a lot of ground work at the momement. Singapore is moving towards euro IV emission standards, and biodiesel can help offset some of the cost of migrating to euro IV disels here. Initial investigation into used cooking oil as a feedstock here, indicate that it might not be a reliable source of feedstock. However we are not giving up hope yet. Yeah the Thailand BioFuels forum is way to expensive. There's another one coming in december. This time it's going to be organized by MPOB from Malaysia . I might pop over and take a look if I'm free. I'll get more details for you if you are interested. Caleb --- Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you. Yes I live about 30 minutes north of Bangkok. I have lived here for over 10 years. I am a techno type, with experience in many areas (electronic circuit design, mechanical machine design, pcb board manufacturing, analysis laboratory). The thing about renewable energy is it almost never pays the bills. Unfortunately, the people most interested in renewable energy are cheap charlies (sorry list members). That includes me. I have always had a gut feeling that renewable energy was the way to turn back the juggernaut. I have a plan to develop a small oil palm plantation in Cambodia (100-200 ht, 1-2 sq kilometer) with my brother (not my biological brother, but the asian style soul mate brother). Land is very cheap, only $100 per acre. Most of the oil will be sold locally, but biodiesel is an excellent way to utilize the excess. Our business plan appears to show that for every dollar invested, we get an annual return after expenses of $1. In other words, 100% annual return on investment. This assumes stable oil prices. If global oil prices rise, our profits rise accordingly. Additionally, this does not include land price appreciation (due to improvements, inflation, etc). You need to be a little careful about the terminology biodiesel in Thailand. A few farmers have blended coconut oil with diesel and called it biodiesel. This was big news. There is a conference (posted to the list) on Ethanol in October in Bangkok, but the $1500 registration fee gave me pause. Can you tell me a little more about yourself and your ideas? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter, I saw your latest posting and realized that you had thailand in your singnature. Are you currently located in Thailand? Me and my partner are really interested in finding out the status of BioDiesel in Thailand. We are currently based in Singapore and would like to venture into some form of BioDiesel production here. Would love to reach out to other communities doing the same thing in this region. Caleb Lau ___ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
[biofuel] Biodiesel in Thailand.
Hi Caleb ; Thanks for your kind email. I posted it back to the list because you never know who is out there who could help you. Yes I live about 30 minutes north of Bangkok. I have lived here for over 10 years. I am a techno type, with experience in many areas (electronic circuit design, mechanical machine design, pcb board manufacturing, analysis laboratory). The thing about renewable energy is it almost never pays the bills. Unfortunately, the people most interested in renewable energy are cheap charlies (sorry list members). That includes me. I have always had a gut feeling that renewable energy was the way to turn back the juggernaut. I have a plan to develop a small oil palm plantation in Cambodia (100-200 ht, 1-2 sq kilometer) with my brother (not my biological brother, but the asian style soul mate brother). Land is very cheap, only $100 per acre. Most of the oil will be sold locally, but biodiesel is an excellent way to utilize the excess. Our business plan appears to show that for every dollar invested, we get an annual return after expenses of $1. In other words, 100% annual return on investment. This assumes stable oil prices. If global oil prices rise, our profits rise accordingly. Additionally, this does not include land price appreciation (due to improvements, inflation, etc). You need to be a little careful about the terminology biodiesel in Thailand. A few farmers have blended coconut oil with diesel and called it biodiesel. This was big news. There is a conference (posted to the list) on Ethanol in October in Bangkok, but the $1500 registration fee gave me pause. Can you tell me a little more about yourself and your ideas? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- kok fong lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Peter, I saw your latest posting and realized that you had thailand in your singnature. Are you currently located in Thailand? Me and my partner are really interested in finding out the status of BioDiesel in Thailand. We are currently based in Singapore and would like to venture into some form of BioDiesel production here. Would love to reach out to other communities doing the same thing in this region. Caleb Lau ___ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
