Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
Christopher, How about adding a compress air nozzel during or after the headers exhaust. You can add an air compressor and pulley on the engine to give you the compressed air you need. More air in the exhause should mean better conversion of CO to CO2 and lowering of outlet temp. Hope this idea is useful. Ken Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
Thanks, Todd (and Steve Spence too). I understand the point about skipping fossil fuels entirely. What would be the best approach to obtaining a good particle trap / catalytic converter solution? Would a catalytic converter salvaged from an automobile work? I have seen some HUGE catalytic converters for massive diesel gensets, but they cost more than I earn in a year (although they were cheap considering the scale at which they would be used); other than that I haven't seen any aftermarket converters for diesel, and besides, I'd like to do this on a shoestring budget . . . they market particle traps for trucks in Japan, but they are expen$ive as well . . . much more than I would want to pay. If I could get enough heat out of the exhaust, I wonder if a chamber equipped with an electrostatic particle arrestor similar to that used in certain home air purification systems would work. Or, if I went with a filter, would something as coarse as the air filters used on the intake side of the engine be any good? Perhaps subjecting the exhaust to a bubble wash would be a good way to get the particles out . . . Why isn't there an article on how to do this in Mechanics Illustrated magazine? In any case, I guess the proper order would be 1) get the heat out, 2) get the particles out, and 3) get the NOx out -- right? Keep those suggestions coming! Gratefully, Christopher Witmer Tokyo Appal Energy wrote: Don't see why, if you are looking for less polluting, that you would contemplate used fossil fuel products as part of the fuel compliment. Manditorily this would increase PAHs over biodiesel, and introduce the probability of heavy metals in the emissions. As well, if you go to a vegetable oil based lubricating oil (synthetic), you reduce almost entirely any PAHs that can come from crankcase oils. Further, the biodiesel is sulfur free, permitting the inclusion of a catalytic converter to reduce NOx, where one couldn't be introduced before. (You mention this below.) Particulate traps can further reduce emissions, a considerably more easily applied technology in situations where there are constant loads, such as gensets. You mention exhaust heat, which can be used to reduce loads elsewhere when complimented with other technologies such as such as indirect heat exchange for space heating, gas absorption cooling or Stirling engines. Personally? Were it me? I'd abandon the idea of used fossil oils as a fuel compliment. Even with a turbocharger, you will not achieve as high an air to fuel ratio as is needed for highly efficient combustion. Best to use these fuels in something along the lines of combustion in a high pressure air stream, as in a boiler or space heat application for which it was designed. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 7:37 PM Subject: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting O Fuelish Ones, I am trying to discover ways of making stationary diesels (e.g., permanently installed electrical generator engines) less polluting, and I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, ideas, avenues to pursue and other tidbits of wisdom that might be useful. It stands to reason that there are a lot of things one would hesitate to try on an automobile, but which would't present any great problems for a diesel engine that was never moved around. Some possibilities that occur to me (I'm thinking out loud here and would appreciate other ideas as well as comments if any of those listed would seem to be unfruitful): * Combustion of biofuels (doh!) and (*if* they can be burned cleanly enough) waste petroleum based lubricating oils * Addition of water at just the right point in the cycle * Addition of methane at the air intake * Careful filtration of both lubricants and fuels * Optimum use of heat coming off the engine (also cools engine better) * Addition of a turbocharger * Addition of exhaust filtration/scrubbing device(s) -- preferably buildable and maintainable by the user! -- again, bulky size isn't so much of an issue with the stationary engine * Addition of an exhaust catalytic converter *if* durable and cheap enough! Thanks, Christopher Witmer The Fuelish Acolyte Tokyo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send
RE: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
One of the demonstrations to promote soy diesel was running a forklift in a warehouse. Try this with dino fuel and you will see what they are promoting. Your selection of fuel is the single largest thing you can do to reduce toxins. Kirk -Original Message- From: Christopher Witmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 2:04 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting Thanks, Todd (and Steve Spence too). I understand the point about skipping fossil fuels entirely. What would be the best approach to obtaining a good particle trap / catalytic converter solution? Would a catalytic converter salvaged from an automobile work? I have seen some HUGE catalytic converters for massive diesel gensets, but they cost more than I earn in a year (although they were cheap considering the scale at which they would be used); other than that I haven't seen any aftermarket converters for diesel, and besides, I'd like to do this on a shoestring budget . . . they market particle traps for trucks in Japan, but they are expen$ive as well . . . much more than I would want to pay. If I could get enough heat out of the exhaust, I wonder if a chamber equipped with an electrostatic particle arrestor similar to that used in certain home air purification systems would work. Or, if I went with a filter, would something as coarse as the air filters used on the intake side of the engine be any good? Perhaps subjecting the exhaust to a bubble wash would be a good way to get the particles out . . . Why isn't there an article on how to do this in Mechanics Illustrated magazine? In any case, I guess the proper order would be 1) get the heat out, 2) get the particles out, and 3) get the NOx out -- right? Keep those suggestions coming! Gratefully, Christopher Witmer Tokyo Appal Energy wrote: Don't see why, if you are looking for less polluting, that you would contemplate used fossil fuel products as part of the fuel compliment. Manditorily this would increase PAHs over biodiesel, and introduce the probability of heavy metals in the emissions. As well, if you go to a vegetable oil based lubricating oil (synthetic), you reduce almost entirely any PAHs that can come from crankcase oils. Further, the biodiesel is sulfur free, permitting the inclusion of a catalytic converter to reduce NOx, where one couldn't be introduced before. (You mention this below.) Particulate traps can further reduce emissions, a considerably more easily applied technology in situations where there are constant loads, such as gensets. You mention exhaust heat, which can be used to reduce loads elsewhere when complimented with other technologies such as such as indirect heat exchange for space heating, gas absorption cooling or Stirling engines. Personally? Were it me? I'd abandon the idea of used fossil oils as a fuel compliment. Even with a turbocharger, you will not achieve as high an air to fuel ratio as is needed for highly efficient combustion. Best to use these fuels in something along the lines of combustion in a high pressure air stream, as in a boiler or space heat application for which it was designed. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 7:37 PM Subject: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting O Fuelish Ones, I am trying to discover ways of making stationary diesels (e.g., permanently installed electrical generator engines) less polluting, and I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, ideas, avenues to pursue and other tidbits of wisdom that might be useful. It stands to reason that there are a lot of things one would hesitate to try on an automobile, but which would't present any great problems for a diesel engine that was never moved around. Some possibilities that occur to me (I'm thinking out loud here and would appreciate other ideas as well as comments if any of those listed would seem to be unfruitful): * Combustion of biofuels (doh!) and (*if* they can be burned cleanly enough) waste petroleum based lubricating oils * Addition of water at just the right point in the cycle * Addition of methane at the air intake * Careful filtration of both lubricants and fuels * Optimum use of heat coming off the engine (also cools engine better) * Addition of a turbocharger * Addition of exhaust filtration/scrubbing device(s) -- preferably buildable and maintainable by the user! -- again, bulky size isn't so much of an issue with the stationary engine * Addition of an exhaust catalytic converter *if* durable and cheap enough! Thanks, Christopher Witmer The Fuelish Acolyte Tokyo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives
Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
I heard that this while this is possable, you need to change the oil, every few hundred miles. Whats the truth? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 18:02 Subject: Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting Don't see why, if you are looking for less polluting, that you would contemplate used fossil fuel products as part of the fuel compliment. Manditorily this would increase PAHs over biodiesel, and introduce the probability of heavy metals in the emissions. As well, if you go to a vegetable oil based lubricating oil (synthetic), you reduce almost entirely any PAHs that can come from crankcase oils. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
Canola and HOSO (high oleic sunflower oil) lubricating oils already exist and are proving themselves nicely. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc Neoteric Biofuels Inc. Located in the Okanagan Valley, British Columbia, Canada 1-250-768-3169 Fax: 1-250-768-3118 Toll-Free (Canada/USA): 1-866-768-3169 http://www.biofuels.ca [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 8/4/02 11:08 AM, Greg and April at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard that this while this is possable, you need to change the oil, every few hundred miles. Whats the truth? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 18:02 Subject: Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting Don't see why, if you are looking for less polluting, that you would contemplate used fossil fuel products as part of the fuel compliment. Manditorily this would increase PAHs over biodiesel, and introduce the probability of heavy metals in the emissions. As well, if you go to a vegetable oil based lubricating oil (synthetic), you reduce almost entirely any PAHs that can come from crankcase oils. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
Any comments on the CTV News clip a couple of nights ago re biofuel? POC On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Canola and HOSO (high oleic sunflower oil) lubricating oils already exist and are proving themselves nicely. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc Neoteric Biofuels Inc. Located in the Okanagan Valley, British Columbia, Canada 1-250-768-3169 Fax: 1-250-768-3118 Toll-Free (Canada/USA): 1-866-768-3169 http://www.biofuels.ca [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 8/4/02 11:08 AM, Greg and April at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I heard that this while this is possable, you need to change the oil, every few hundred miles. Whats the truth? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 18:02 Subject: Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting Don't see why, if you are looking for less polluting, that you would contemplate used fossil fuel products as part of the fuel compliment. Manditorily this would increase PAHs over biodiesel, and introduce the probability of heavy metals in the emissions. As well, if you go to a vegetable oil based lubricating oil (synthetic), you reduce almost entirely any PAHs that can come from crankcase oils. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
O Fuelish Ones, I am trying to discover ways of making stationary diesels (e.g., permanently installed electrical generator engines) less polluting, and I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, ideas, avenues to pursue and other tidbits of wisdom that might be useful. It stands to reason that there are a lot of things one would hesitate to try on an automobile, but which would't present any great problems for a diesel engine that was never moved around. Some possibilities that occur to me (I'm thinking out loud here and would appreciate other ideas as well as comments if any of those listed would seem to be unfruitful): * Combustion of biofuels (doh!) and (*if* they can be burned cleanly enough) waste petroleum based lubricating oils * Addition of water at just the right point in the cycle * Addition of methane at the air intake * Careful filtration of both lubricants and fuels * Optimum use of heat coming off the engine (also cools engine better) * Addition of a turbocharger * Addition of exhaust filtration/scrubbing device(s) -- preferably buildable and maintainable by the user! -- again, bulky size isn't so much of an issue with the stationary engine * Addition of an exhaust catalytic converter *if* durable and cheap enough! Thanks, Christopher Witmer The Fuelish Acolyte Tokyo Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
svo and a cat converter make for a very clean burning engine. a VW TDI is already a very efficient and clean burning base unit to start with. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards: http://www.green-trust.org Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 7:37 PM Subject: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting O Fuelish Ones, I am trying to discover ways of making stationary diesels (e.g., permanently installed electrical generator engines) less polluting, and I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, ideas, avenues to pursue and other tidbits of wisdom that might be useful. It stands to reason that there are a lot of things one would hesitate to try on an automobile, but which would't present any great problems for a diesel engine that was never moved around. Some possibilities that occur to me (I'm thinking out loud here and would appreciate other ideas as well as comments if any of those listed would seem to be unfruitful): * Combustion of biofuels (doh!) and (*if* they can be burned cleanly enough) waste petroleum based lubricating oils * Addition of water at just the right point in the cycle * Addition of methane at the air intake * Careful filtration of both lubricants and fuels * Optimum use of heat coming off the engine (also cools engine better) * Addition of a turbocharger * Addition of exhaust filtration/scrubbing device(s) -- preferably buildable and maintainable by the user! -- again, bulky size isn't so much of an issue with the stationary engine * Addition of an exhaust catalytic converter *if* durable and cheap enough! Thanks, Christopher Witmer The Fuelish Acolyte Tokyo Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting
Don't see why, if you are looking for less polluting, that you would contemplate used fossil fuel products as part of the fuel compliment. Manditorily this would increase PAHs over biodiesel, and introduce the probability of heavy metals in the emissions. As well, if you go to a vegetable oil based lubricating oil (synthetic), you reduce almost entirely any PAHs that can come from crankcase oils. Further, the biodiesel is sulfur free, permitting the inclusion of a catalytic converter to reduce NOx, where one couldn't be introduced before. (You mention this below.) Particulate traps can further reduce emissions, a considerably more easily applied technology in situations where there are constant loads, such as gensets. You mention exhaust heat, which can be used to reduce loads elsewhere when complimented with other technologies such as such as indirect heat exchange for space heating, gas absorption cooling or Stirling engines. Personally? Were it me? I'd abandon the idea of used fossil oils as a fuel compliment. Even with a turbocharger, you will not achieve as high an air to fuel ratio as is needed for highly efficient combustion. Best to use these fuels in something along the lines of combustion in a high pressure air stream, as in a boiler or space heat application for which it was designed. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 7:37 PM Subject: [biofuel] WTK: tweaks and add-ons to make *stationary* diesels less polluting O Fuelish Ones, I am trying to discover ways of making stationary diesels (e.g., permanently installed electrical generator engines) less polluting, and I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, ideas, avenues to pursue and other tidbits of wisdom that might be useful. It stands to reason that there are a lot of things one would hesitate to try on an automobile, but which would't present any great problems for a diesel engine that was never moved around. Some possibilities that occur to me (I'm thinking out loud here and would appreciate other ideas as well as comments if any of those listed would seem to be unfruitful): * Combustion of biofuels (doh!) and (*if* they can be burned cleanly enough) waste petroleum based lubricating oils * Addition of water at just the right point in the cycle * Addition of methane at the air intake * Careful filtration of both lubricants and fuels * Optimum use of heat coming off the engine (also cools engine better) * Addition of a turbocharger * Addition of exhaust filtration/scrubbing device(s) -- preferably buildable and maintainable by the user! -- again, bulky size isn't so much of an issue with the stationary engine * Addition of an exhaust catalytic converter *if* durable and cheap enough! Thanks, Christopher Witmer The Fuelish Acolyte Tokyo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
