Re: [biofuel] swimming in it
Hello Jack >Keith, Todd, et al. >Thanks for the responses. I really like the idea of sawdust and >glycerine briquettes - We once thought of making charcoal briquettes >out of casuarina equisetefolia wood that is over abundant here as an >exotic invasive. Perhaps we could market both? We have lots of >sawdust and wood shavings from our mill and work shop. Have you seen this? http://www.echonet.org/tropicalag/technotes/briquete.pdf Briquette Presses For Alternate Fuel Use By Jason Dahlman With Charlie Forst Published 2001 ECHO Technical Note Illustrations, details and instructions for a simple briquette press 2.8Mb Acrobat file. >As to why we only use B50 in the boat - I suppose we are just >breaking her in. She is an '84 with a lot of hours and we depend on >her twice daily to get us to an open ocean aquaculture cage to feed >the fish. If she were to bog down for some reason we would be in >some trouble as the fish dont much like missing a feed. I would >like to have her up to B80 by December and then B100 by January. The >scaling up of the biodiesel blends is more palatable to the >investors on the project, and it is they who own the boat. :-) TWMBO (They Who Must Be Obeyed). >By the way, I was talking to our marina manager tonight and he >was expressing concerns about using biodiesel in common rail diesels >where the injection pressures are much higher. He was concerned >(though admittedly uninformed) about the atomization at those >pressures and other performance characterisitics that might change. >Any thoughts on this? Sorry for the scattered thread. No problem, very commonly done. Should be reports available you could use to persuade him. Europe's the place for that (rather far ahead of the US, both with diesels and biodiuesel use). Best wishes Keith >Best, >jk >Jack Kenworthy >Sustainable Systems Director >The Cape Eleuthera Institute >242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax >www.islandschool.org > - Original Message - > From: Keith Addison > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:22 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] swimming in it > > > Hello Jack > > Liked your list of BD vehicles, great! Why only B50 in the boat? > > >Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. I > >am making about 350 gallons of fuel a week now and coming out with > >roughly 40-45 gallons of glycerine to boot. Up until this point I > >was able to compost most of it readily, but now I have too much to > >deal with effectively. I am in a remote location in The Bahamas and > >have no one who would be willing to buy the stuff. I am storing it > >for the time being in 55 gallon drums that were used for lube oil at > >the power plant, but space is not limitless there - I would love to > >find a solution for large quantities of glycerine over the long > >term. I can't just dump it on the ground, can I? I have seen where > >it has spilled in the past and when it rains on those spots it is > >quite messy. I appreciate any input - I am sure the list has some > >good experience with these levels of glycerine? > >Thanks! > >Jack > >Jack Kenworthy > >Sustainable Systems Director > >The Cape Eleuthera Institute > >242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax > >www.islandschool.org > > I take it you've checked all this stuff? > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html > Glycerine: Journey to Forever > > Most likely candidates are: > - making milk carton logs and burning it for space heat (but you're > in the Caribbean!), or (remotely) for biodiesel process heat via a > heat exchanger; > - reclaiming the excess methanol and using the remaining by-product > as degreaser; and > - separating it. You'll have to see if this last makes economic sense > to offset the phosphoric acid costs, but you could have more options > with the salts, glycerin and FFA separated. Maybe you don't think > chemical fertilizers are sustainable, neither do I, but no harm in > the compost pile, and much easier to compost just the salts than the > whole thing. I don't think anyone anywhere is willing to buy the > unseparated by-product. Could you sell sawdust logs perhaps? Or > briquettes? Glycerine-sawdust briquettes was my original idea before > Tony Clarke thought of putting it in milk cartons. Small-scale export > to another island maybe? It burns hotter and longer than an > equivalent weight of wood would do, might save some trees. I got hold > of some activated charcoal and some clumping cat litter a few days > ago planning to filter some separated glycerin to purify it, which &
Re: [biofuel] swimming in it
Keith, Todd, et al. Thanks for the responses. I really like the idea of sawdust and glycerine briquettes - We once thought of making charcoal briquettes out of casuarina equisetefolia wood that is over abundant here as an exotic invasive. Perhaps we could market both? We have lots of sawdust and wood shavings from our mill and work shop. As to why we only use B50 in the boat - I suppose we are just breaking her in. She is an '84 with a lot of hours and we depend on her twice daily to get us to an open ocean aquaculture cage to feed the fish. If she were to bog down for some reason we would be in some trouble as the fish dont much like missing a feed. I would like to have her up to B80 by December and then B100 by January. The scaling up of the biodiesel blends is more palatable to the investors on the project, and it is they who own the boat. By the way, I was talking to our marina manager tonight and he was expressing concerns about using biodiesel in common rail diesels where the injection pressures are much higher. He was concerned (though admittedly uninformed) about the atomization at those pressures and other performance characterisitics that might change. Any thoughts on this? Sorry for the scattered thread. Best, jk Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Institute 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] swimming in it Hello Jack Liked your list of BD vehicles, great! Why only B50 in the boat? >Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. I >am making about 350 gallons of fuel a week now and coming out with >roughly 40-45 gallons of glycerine to boot. Up until this point I >was able to compost most of it readily, but now I have too much to >deal with effectively. I am in a remote location in The Bahamas and >have no one who would be willing to buy the stuff. I am storing it >for the time being in 55 gallon drums that were used for lube oil at >the power plant, but space is not limitless there - I would love to >find a solution for large quantities of glycerine over the long >term. I can't just dump it on the ground, can I? I have seen where >it has spilled in the past and when it rains on those spots it is >quite messy. I appreciate any input - I am sure the list has some >good experience with these levels of glycerine? >Thanks! >Jack >Jack Kenworthy >Sustainable Systems Director >The Cape Eleuthera Institute >242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax >www.islandschool.org I take it you've checked all this stuff? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html Glycerine: Journey to Forever Most likely candidates are: - making milk carton logs and burning it for space heat (but you're in the Caribbean!), or (remotely) for biodiesel process heat via a heat exchanger; - reclaiming the excess methanol and using the remaining by-product as degreaser; and - separating it. You'll have to see if this last makes economic sense to offset the phosphoric acid costs, but you could have more options with the salts, glycerin and FFA separated. Maybe you don't think chemical fertilizers are sustainable, neither do I, but no harm in the compost pile, and much easier to compost just the salts than the whole thing. I don't think anyone anywhere is willing to buy the unseparated by-product. Could you sell sawdust logs perhaps? Or briquettes? Glycerine-sawdust briquettes was my original idea before Tony Clarke thought of putting it in milk cartons. Small-scale export to another island maybe? It burns hotter and longer than an equivalent weight of wood would do, might save some trees. I got hold of some activated charcoal and some clumping cat litter a few days ago planning to filter some separated glycerin to purify it, which Martin just advised, I'll report any results of interest, but industrially it's apparently only saleable in very large quantities. There's also this: http://www.regional.org.au/au/gcirc/1/241.htm Glycerol as a by-product of biodiesel production in Diets for ruminants regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Re: [biofuel] swimming in it
Hello Jack Liked your list of BD vehicles, great! Why only B50 in the boat? >Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. I >am making about 350 gallons of fuel a week now and coming out with >roughly 40-45 gallons of glycerine to boot. Up until this point I >was able to compost most of it readily, but now I have too much to >deal with effectively. I am in a remote location in The Bahamas and >have no one who would be willing to buy the stuff. I am storing it >for the time being in 55 gallon drums that were used for lube oil at >the power plant, but space is not limitless there - I would love to >find a solution for large quantities of glycerine over the long >term. I can't just dump it on the ground, can I? I have seen where >it has spilled in the past and when it rains on those spots it is >quite messy. I appreciate any input - I am sure the list has some >good experience with these levels of glycerine? >Thanks! >Jack >Jack Kenworthy >Sustainable Systems Director >The Cape Eleuthera Institute >242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax >www.islandschool.org I take it you've checked all this stuff? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html Glycerine: Journey to Forever Most likely candidates are: - making milk carton logs and burning it for space heat (but you're in the Caribbean!), or (remotely) for biodiesel process heat via a heat exchanger; - reclaiming the excess methanol and using the remaining by-product as degreaser; and - separating it. You'll have to see if this last makes economic sense to offset the phosphoric acid costs, but you could have more options with the salts, glycerin and FFA separated. Maybe you don't think chemical fertilizers are sustainable, neither do I, but no harm in the compost pile, and much easier to compost just the salts than the whole thing. I don't think anyone anywhere is willing to buy the unseparated by-product. Could you sell sawdust logs perhaps? Or briquettes? Glycerine-sawdust briquettes was my original idea before Tony Clarke thought of putting it in milk cartons. Small-scale export to another island maybe? It burns hotter and longer than an equivalent weight of wood would do, might save some trees. I got hold of some activated charcoal and some clumping cat litter a few days ago planning to filter some separated glycerin to purify it, which Martin just advised, I'll report any results of interest, but industrially it's apparently only saleable in very large quantities. There's also this: http://www.regional.org.au/au/gcirc/1/241.htm Glycerol as a by-product of biodiesel production in Diets for ruminants regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] swimming in it
At 06:03 AM 10/28/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hallo Walt, > >One problem is trying to get rid of soap which smells like fried fish >or the local McDonalds. A person can only use so much themselves. I >have yet to see a method of deodorizing the soap or reasonably masking >the scent. > >Happy Happy, > >Gustl Thanks for the voice of experience. The devil's always in the details, and not everything which can be done, should be done. Walt Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] swimming in it
It may be possible to heat the glycerine to a high temperature (200C perhaps) to remove some volatiles. Then try filtering the glycerine through activated carbon (charcoal) I wouldn't heat over an open flame though without a hood. (alcohol fumes) -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: >Hallo Walt, > >One problem is trying to get rid of soap which smells like fried fish >or the local McDonalds. A person can only use so much themselves. I >have yet to see a method of deodorizing the soap or reasonably masking >the scent. > >Happy Happy, > >Gustl > >Monday, 27 October, 2003, 22:12:53, you wrote: > >WP> At 09:39 PM 10/27/03 -0500, you wrote: >WP> >Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. > >WP> Have you looked into using it to make soap? > >WP> Glycerine based soaps are translucent and are easy enough to make that >WP> stores carry kits so that kids can make their own soap at home. > >WP> Walt > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] swimming in it
Hallo Walt, One problem is trying to get rid of soap which smells like fried fish or the local McDonalds. A person can only use so much themselves. I have yet to see a method of deodorizing the soap or reasonably masking the scent. Happy Happy, Gustl Monday, 27 October, 2003, 22:12:53, you wrote: WP> At 09:39 PM 10/27/03 -0500, you wrote: WP> >Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. WP> Have you looked into using it to make soap? WP> Glycerine based soaps are translucent and are easy enough to make that WP> stores carry kits so that kids can make their own soap at home. WP> Walt -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] swimming in it
At 09:39 PM 10/27/03 -0500, you wrote: >Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. Have you looked into using it to make soap? Glycerine based soaps are translucent and are easy enough to make that stores carry kits so that kids can make their own soap at home. Walt Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ybSovB/hP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] swimming in it
Jack, Your "glycerin" is a cocktail of soap, alcohol, glycerin and catalyst. It will burn well so-so as a fuel in that state, providing you can achieve a proper fuel/air ratio. The alcohol is generally what takes off. The glycerin is a bit tougher to get to burn - like burning honey, literally. You can also crack the soap, recover the alcohol, use the recovered FFAs for process heat (or other heat) and apply the catalyst (recovered as a precipitate fertilizer (potassium phosphate, preferably)). This will leave you with only the "true" glycerin to compost, which can be disseminated with your wash water as gray water irrigation. (Roughly calculate 79 ml of "true glycerin" per liter of oil.) This is presuming that you have gray water as a result of fuel washing. If you do, hopefully you're pre-treating your waste water with something akin to magnesium salts (Epsom salts) to scum out the soap prior to releasing the water. JTF points to the use of the glycerin cocktail in homemade fuel logs. Hopefully you opt to recover the alcohol before doing this. It would make the paste thicker (considerably thicker if using NaOH rather than KOH) and give you more efficient use of your alcohol. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Jack Kenworthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:39 PM Subject: [biofuel] swimming in it > Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. I am making about 350 gallons of fuel a week now and coming out with roughly 40-45 gallons of glycerine to boot. Up until this point I was able to compost most of it readily, but now I have too much to deal with effectively. I am in a remote location in The Bahamas and have no one who would be willing to buy the stuff. I am storing it for the time being in 55 gallon drums that were used for lube oil at the power plant, but space is not limitless there - I would love to find a solution for large quantities of glycerine over the long term. I can't just dump it on the ground, can I? I have seen where it has spilled in the past and when it rains on those spots it is quite messy. I appreciate any input - I am sure the list has some good experience with these levels of glycerine? > Thanks! > Jack > Jack Kenworthy > Sustainable Systems Director > The Cape Eleuthera Institute > 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax > www.islandschool.org > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] swimming in it
Glycerine that is. And I am not really sure what to do with it. I am making about 350 gallons of fuel a week now and coming out with roughly 40-45 gallons of glycerine to boot. Up until this point I was able to compost most of it readily, but now I have too much to deal with effectively. I am in a remote location in The Bahamas and have no one who would be willing to buy the stuff. I am storing it for the time being in 55 gallon drums that were used for lube oil at the power plant, but space is not limitless there - I would love to find a solution for large quantities of glycerine over the long term. I can't just dump it on the ground, can I? I have seen where it has spilled in the past and when it rains on those spots it is quite messy. I appreciate any input - I am sure the list has some good experience with these levels of glycerine? Thanks! Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Institute 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vhSowB/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
