RE: [Biofuel] Farmer's Lobby
Howdy Peggy, Firstly, I would like to say that I didn't mean to be offensive about regional differences in cost accounting. I should give notice when I make a 'friendly' facetious remark. In fact, when I was a teenager many years ago, I hung around at the local train depot where an elderly gentleman from Texas was the evening shift telegraph operator and would allow me to sit in the ticket office and do my school homework while he pounded on the telegraph key. He was one wise fellow who had worked across the southwest on many railroads before settling down in the upper Midwest. Thanks, for the Arkenol link. I'll read it over. In return, here is a biodiesel processing manufacturer company that is located in Minnesota. I see that Keith has it in his links section also. Link with photos: http://www.crowniron.com Just look for 'biodiesel' and click on it. They have a photo gallery also. Also, the Red River Valley on the border of North Dakota/Minnesota could use some biomass-to-ethanol conversion with all their potato, sugar beet, and flour processing wastes. Links here: http://www.westbioenergy.org/reports/nderept.htm and http://www.westbioenergy.org/may2001/05-01a.html And finally, please ask your biochemist if he ever heard of JW Dant 100 proof Kentucky Bourbon. It was pretty cheap stuff long ago and probably wasn't aged more than about 30 seconds. grin Regards, Ron B. = Hi Ron, Actually our cost estimates for the existing industry numbers came from Arkenol's faq where you will find the $5.00/gallon of annual capacity quote and that's not Texas, folks. By the way, our biochemist is not a Texas native. He comes from a long line of legal industrial beverage distillers in Kentucky. Note the commercial producers in this example are using a concentrated acid process to convert cellulose to sugar, and are going to the expense of recovering the acid instead of letting it go to gypsum. Sulfuric is the cheapest acid on the market. Then they use custom designed organisms to digest the sugar. Dilute acid extraction and microbial hydrolysis to sugar is cheaper. Click here: FAQ's - Technology http://www.arkenol.com/Arkenol%20Inc/faq03.html#top Also, Ron, I appreciate your observations and comments. Hopefully, you can understand the new benefits that are coming available from innovative sources beyond government interaction. Because you are a defender of the current technology, does that mean you are a stake holder or an employee of the government or academia? You know it is possible to improve production quantity and quality in many different areas including, efficient small scale production, new processing techniques, new microorganisms, and more. The main point is that new small production facilities are not in competition with the big boys. There is currently enough need and not enough production capabilities. It seems to me that you would be pleased to learn about expanding the industry. If you can offer community projects at a reasonable start-up investment, then more power to you. We are not in competition with you or anyone else. We offer a ways to an end. By the way, does being a Texan qualify a person for your definition of ignorance? Golly Gee! I'm not related to the Bush family and they are fairly new comers to those of us who trace their ancestors to the Alamo. Mostly Texans are hard-working grassroots INDIVIDUALS who stand on their own two feet and lend a helping hand to neighbors. Also, I did buy my scientific calculator from Texas Instruments and it seems to work just fine. Really Ron, I enjoy your posts and would like to be a friendly neighbor. Best wishes, Peggy ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Farmer's Lobby
Hi Ron, Actually our cost estimates for the existing industry numbers came from Arkenol's faq where you will find the $5.00/gallon of annual capacity quote and that's not Texas, folks. By the way, our biochemist is not a Texas native. He comes from a long line of legal industrial beverage distillers in Kentucky. Note the commercial producers in this example are using a concentrated acid process to convert cellulose to sugar, and are going to the expense of recovering the acid instead of letting it go to gypsum. Sulfuric is the cheapest acid on the market. Then they use custom designed organisms to digest the sugar. Dilute acid extraction and microbial hydrolysis to sugar is cheaper. Click here: FAQ's - Technology http://www.arkenol.com/Arkenol%20Inc/faq03.html#top Also, Ron, I appreciate your observations and comments. Hopefully, you can understand the new benefits that are coming available from innovative sources beyond government interaction. Because you are a defender of the current technology, does that mean you are a stake holder or an employee of the government or academia? You know it is possible to improve production quantity and quality in many different areas including, efficient small scale production, new processing techniques, new microorganisms, and more. The main point is that new small production facilities are not in competition with the big boys. There is currently enough need and not enough production capabilities. It seems to me that you would be pleased to learn about expanding the industry. If you can offer community projects at a reasonable start-up investment, then more power to you. We are not in competition with you or anyone else. We offer a ways to an end. By the way, does being a Texan qualify a person for your definition of ignorance? Golly Gee! I'm not related to the Bush family and they are fairly new comers to those of us who trace their ancestors to the Alamo. Mostly Texans are hard-working grassroots INDIVIDUALS who stand on their own two feet and lend a helping hand to neighbors. Also, I did buy my scientific calculator from Texas Instruments and it seems to work just fine. Really Ron, I enjoy your posts and would like to be a friendly neighbor. Best wishes, Peggy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Farmer's Lobby We can provide small distilleries for total biomass processes. We have manufacturing facilities in Raymondville, Texas to build small reflux stills, fermentation vats, and heat exchangers, and we contract with other vendors for boilers for making steam and electricity for the distillery. The grid here is required to buy back our surplus generation if there is any. I have quotes from some of the big guys for what they consider a Minimum size turnkey ethanol plant, and the numbers are scary. The way I break it down, their quotes are around $4.50 - $5.00 per gallon of annual ethanol capacity. That translates to a small 5 million gallon/year distillery costing about $25 million. They would much rather build a 50 million gallon/year distillery for about $200 million, since the same time and energy is expended in designing each. Peggy, I think your $200 million for a 50 million MGY ethanol plant is a little on the high sidemaybe by 4 times. Maybe in Texas they do a different style of pencil figuring. Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Farmer's Lobby
We can provide small distilleries for total biomass processes. We have manufacturing facilities in Raymondville, Texas to build small reflux stills, fermentation vats, and heat exchangers, and we contract with other vendors for boilers for making steam and electricity for the distillery. The grid here is required to buy back our surplus generation if there is any. I have quotes from some of the big guys for what they consider a Minimum size turnkey ethanol plant, and the numbers are scary. The way I break it down, their quotes are around $4.50 - $5.00 per gallon of annual ethanol capacity. That translates to a small 5 million gallon/year distillery costing about $25 million. They would much rather build a 50 million gallon/year distillery for about $200 million, since the same time and energy is expended in designing each. Peggy, I think your $200 million for a 50 million MGY ethanol plant is a little on the high sidemaybe by 4 times. Maybe in Texas they do a different style of pencil figuring. Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
