Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima
Hi Clark, Welcome if this is your first post. We all appreciate a sense of humor. However, there is at least one perhaps more than one Viet Nam vets here, possible from both sides. Napalm jokes probably are not too funny. But, heck how would you know that. Welcome, learn and enjoy the dialog. Tom Irwin, recent new memeber From: clark creamer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 01:17:46 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of HiroshimaFirst postIf you're talking WWII style or Vietnam style flamethrower then you'retalking Napalm...heh.~ClarkOn 8/7/05, Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Hi all, I passed by the local used everything store and saw an old style blowtorch. It looked like it was in working order and cost next to nothing. I immediately though now that would make a nice preheater to boil off any excess water in my waste vegetable oil. If this is in the archives I´m sorry but it´s early and I haven´t had my morning cup yet. What the heck did they use to fuel these suckers? Do you think it can run on BioD or glycerine byproduct? Thanks, Tom From: Garth Kim Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:40:16 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima Greetings Tom, Yes, many of us would not be here. Canadian forces were also training for that invasion. I was always taught that it was the code of death before dishonor that made the bombing necessary. I am not saying that is correct, but I wonder how scared of Russia anyone would have been by that time in the war. As I understand it, one of the things the Russian people hated America for was the long wait before they joined, which allowed Russia to be seriously depleted. I do understand that the Japanese were already commandeering cooking pots etc. for metal to make weapons, so they must have known the end was in sight, but that had been going on for long enough to scare many people into believing they would not surrender, period. It is easy to start myths during war time, people are so scared and the average person is not told much of the truth for good reasons, many times. I see it today, so many people are so scared of terrorism and have no idea of how it started. How does one educate a population that is now in it's second or third generation of ignorance of history, science, math, philosophy and common sense? Bright Blessings, Kim At 01:23 PM 8/5/2005, you wrote: Hi All, Although I'm in agreement about the Enola Gay exhibit, I will have to disagree about the use of the bombs. As slightly more modern barbarians we really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII government. Perhaps Keith can give his insights since he lives close by. My reading of that history is that Japan's military had a stranglehold on the government. That their way was the Bushido way. There's a lot of death before dishonor in that line of thinking. My father related many stories to me of the kamakazi attacks during the invasion of Okinawa. That they were ineffective does not discount their willingness to die. There were a lot fewer prisoners taken in the Pacific war. Some of that was certainly racism on our side but a fairly good piece of it wasn't. I've spoken with many veterans from that campaign. Many reasonable men told me quite frankly that the Japanese would rather die than surrender. If they could die taking a few of their enemy with them all the better. If this willingness to die was prevelent in their armed forces I think one can make the jump that if the home islands were attacked that our casualties would be very high. Perhaps not the million so often quoted but if it was only a quarter of that, many of us who are currently alive would never have been born. My father was in training for the invasion when the bombs were dropped. He told me everyone on board his troop transport breathed a sigh of relief when they realized they would not have to invade. I personally have no use for nuclear technology or nuclear weapons and am fully against them. But the truth be told, I'm here today because they were used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention. my two cents for the day, Tom Irwin From: Appal Energy [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 Subject: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.storyThe myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors of "American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer," published earlier this year by Knopf. SIXTY YEARS ago tomorrow, an atomic bomb was dropped without warning on the center of the Japanese city of Hiroshima. One hundred and forty thousand people were killed, more than 95% of them women and
Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima
Hi Busy, That´s what I was afraid of. I have a feeling BioD is out, definitely the glycerine by-product as a fuel. Maybe 95% ethanol. Thanks, Tom Irwin From: Busyditch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 02:52:39 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of HiroshimaIf its one of those old brass hand-held blow torches it uses kerosene.- Original Message - From: "clark creamer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <BIOFUEL@SUSTAINABLELISTS.ORG>Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:17 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima First post If you're talking WWII style or Vietnam style flamethrower then you're talking Napalm...heh. ~Clark On 8/7/05, Tom Irwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Hi all, I passed by the local used everything store and saw an old styleblowtorch. It looked like it was in working order and cost next to nothing. I immediately though now that would make a nice preheater to boil off any excess water in my waste vegetable oil. If this is in the archives I´msorry but it´s early and I haven´t had my morning cup yet. What the heck didthey use to fuel these suckers? Do you think it can run on BioD or glycerine byproduct? Thanks, Tom From: Garth Kim Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:40:16 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima Greetings Tom, Yes, many of us would not be here. Canadian forces were also trainingfor that invasion. I was always taught that it was the code of death before dishonor that made the bombing necessary. I am not saying that iscorrect, but I wonder how scared of Russia anyone would have been by that time inthe war. As I understand it, one of the things the Russian people hatedAmerica for was the long wait before they joined, which allowed Russia to be seriously depleted. I do understand that the Japanese were already commandeering cooking pots etc. for metal to make weapons, so they musthave known the end was in sight, but that had been going on for long enoughto scare many people into believing they would not surrender, period. It is easy to start myths during war time, people are so scared and the average person is not told much of the truth for good reasons, manytimes. I see it today, so many people are so scared of terrorism and have noidea of how it started. How does one educate a population that is now init's second or third generation of ignorance of history, science, math, philosophy and common sense? Bright Blessings, Kim At 01:23 PM 8/5/2005, you wrote: Hi All, Although I'm in agreement about the Enola Gay exhibit, I will have to disagree about the use of the bombs. As slightly more modern barbarianswe really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII government. PerhapsKeith can give his insights since he lives close by. My reading of thathistory is that Japan's military had a stranglehold on the government. That theirway was the Bushido way. There's a lot of death before dishonor in that lineof thinking. My father related many stories to me of the kamakazi attacks during the invasion of Okinawa. That they were ineffective does notdiscount their willingness to die. There were a lot fewer prisoners taken in the Pacific war. Some of that was certainly racism on our side but a fairlygood piece of it wasn't. I've spoken with many veterans from that campaign.Many reasonable men told me quite frankly that the Japanese would rather diethan surrender. If they could die taking a few of their enemy with them allthe better. If this willingness to die was prevelent in their armed forces I think one can make the jump that if the home islands were attacked thatour casualties would be very high. Perhaps not the million so often quotedbut if it was only a quarter of that, many of us who are currently alivewould never have been born. My father was in training for the invasion whenthe bombs were dropped. He told me everyone on board his troop transport breathed a sigh of relief when they realized they would not have toinvade. I personally have no use for nuclear technology or nuclear weapons andam fully against them. But the truth be told, I'm here today because theywere used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention. my two cents for the day, Tom Irwin From: Appal Energy [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 Subject: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story The myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors of "American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer," published earlier this year by Knopf. SIXTY YEARS ago tomorrow, an a
Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima
Hi all, I passed by the local used everything store and saw an old style blowtorch. It looked like it was in working order and cost next to nothing. I immediately though now that would make a nice preheater to boil off any excess water in my waste vegetable oil. If this is in the archives I´m sorry but it´s early and I haven´t had my morning cup yet. What the heck did they use to fuel these suckers? Do you think it can run on BioD or glycerine byproduct? Thanks, Tom From: Garth Kim Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:40:16 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of HiroshimaGreetings Tom,Yes, many of us would not be here. Canadian forces were also training for that invasion. I was always taught that it was the code of death before dishonor that made the bombing necessary. I am not saying that is correct, but I wonder how scared of Russia anyone would have been by that time in the war. As I understand it, one of the things the Russian people hated America for was the long wait before they joined, which allowed Russia to be seriously depleted. I do understand that the Japanese were already commandeering cooking pots etc. for metal to make weapons, so they must have known the end was in sight, but that had been going on for long enough to scare many people into believing they would not surrender, period. It is easy to start myths during war time, people are so scared and the average person is not told much of the truth for good reasons, many times. I see it today, so many people are so scared of terrorism and have no idea of how it started. How does one educate a population that is now in it's second or third generation of ignorance of history, science, math, philosophy and common sense?Bright Blessings,KimAt 01:23 PM 8/5/2005, you wrote: Hi All,Although I'm in agreement about the Enola Gay exhibit, I will have to disagree about the use of the bombs. As slightly more modern barbarians we really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII government. Perhaps Keith can give his insights since he lives close by. My reading of that history is that Japan's military had a stranglehold on the government. That their way was the Bushido way. There's a lot of death before dishonor in that line of thinking. My father related many stories to me of the kamakazi attacks during the invasion of Okinawa. That they were ineffective does not discount their willingness to die. There were a lot fewer prisoners taken in the Pacific war. Some of that was certainly racism on our side but a fairly good piece of it wasn't. I've spoken with many veterans from that campaign. Many reasonable men told me quite frankly that the Japanese would rather die than surrender. If they could die taking a few of their enemy with them all the better. If this willingness to die was prevelent in their armed forces I think one can make the jump that if the home islands were attacked that our casualties would be very high. Perhaps not the million so often quoted but if it was only a quarter of that, many of us who are currently alive would never have been born. My father was in training for the invasion when the bombs were dropped. He told me everyone on board his troop transport breathed a sigh of relief when they realized they would not have to invade. I personally have no use for nuclear technology or nuclear weapons and am fully against them. But the truth be told, I'm here today because they were used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention.my two cents for the day,Tom Irwin From: Appal Energy [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 Subject: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story The myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors of "American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer," published earlier this year by Knopf. SIXTY YEARS ago tomorrow, an atomic bomb was dropped without warning on the center of the Japanese city of Hiroshima. One hundred and forty thousand people were killed, more than 95% of them women and children and other noncombatants. At least half of the victims died of radiation poisoning over the next few months. Three days after Hiroshima was obliterated, the city of Nagasaki suffered a similar fate. The magnitude of death was enormous, but on Aug. 14, 1945 — just five days after the Nagasaki bombing — Radiadio Tokyo announced that the Japanese emperor had accepted the U.S. terms for surrender. To many Americans at the time, and still for many today, it seemed clear that the bomb had ended the war, even "saving" a million lives that might have been lost if the U.S. had been required to invade mainland Japan. This powerful narrative took root quickly and is now deeply embedded in our historical sense of who we are as a nation. A decade
Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima
First post If you're talking WWII style or Vietnam style flamethrower then you're talking Napalm...heh. ~Clark On 8/7/05, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I passed by the local used everything store and saw an old style blowtorch. It looked like it was in working order and cost next to nothing. I immediately though now that would make a nice preheater to boil off any excess water in my waste vegetable oil. If this is in the archives I´m sorry but it´s early and I haven´t had my morning cup yet. What the heck did they use to fuel these suckers? Do you think it can run on BioD or glycerine byproduct? Thanks, Tom From: Garth Kim Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:40:16 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima Greetings Tom, Yes, many of us would not be here. Canadian forces were also training for that invasion. I was always taught that it was the code of death before dishonor that made the bombing necessary. I am not saying that is correct, but I wonder how scared of Russia anyone would have been by that time in the war. As I understand it, one of the things the Russian people hated America for was the long wait before they joined, which allowed Russia to be seriously depleted. I do understand that the Japanese were already commandeering cooking pots etc. for metal to make weapons, so they must have known the end was in sight, but that had been going on for long enough to scare many people into believing they would not surrender, period. It is easy to start myths during war time, people are so scared and the average person is not told much of the truth for good reasons, many times. I see it today, so many people are so scared of terrorism and have no idea of how it started. How does one educate a population that is now in it's second or third generation of ignorance of history, science, math, philosophy and common sense? Bright Blessings, Kim At 01:23 PM 8/5/2005, you wrote: Hi All, Although I'm in agreement about the Enola Gay exhibit, I will have to disagree about the use of the bombs. As slightly more modern barbarians we really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII government. Perhaps Keith can give his insights since he lives close by. My reading of that history is that Japan's military had a stranglehold on the government. That their way was the Bushido way. There's a lot of death before dishonor in that line of thinking. My father related many stories to me of the kamakazi attacks during the invasion of Okinawa. That they were ineffective does not discount their willingness to die. There were a lot fewer prisoners taken in the Pacific war. Some of that was certainly racism on our side but a fairly good piece of it wasn't. I've spoken with many veterans from that campaign. Many reasonable men told me quite frankly that the Japanese would rather die than surrender. If they could die taking a few of their enemy with them all the better. If this willingness to die was prevelent in their armed forces I think one can make the jump that if the home islands were attacked that our casualties would be very high. Perhaps not the million so often quoted but if it was only a quarter of that, many of us who are currently alive would never have been born. My father was in training for the invasion when the bombs were dropped. He told me everyone on board his troop transport breathed a sigh of relief when they realized they would not have to invade. I personally have no use for nuclear technology or nuclear weapons and am fully against them. But the truth be told, I'm here today because they were used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention. my two cents for the day, Tom Irwin From: Appal Energy [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 Subject: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story The myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors of American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, published earlier this year by Knopf. SIXTY YEARS ago tomorrow, an atomic bomb was dropped without warning on the center of the Japanese city of Hiroshima. One hundred and forty thousand people were killed, more than 95% of them women and children and other noncombatants. At least half of the victims died of radiation poisoning over the next few months. Three days after Hiroshima was obliterated, the city of Nagasaki suffered a similar fate. The magnitude of death was enormous, but on Aug. 14, 1945 — just five days after the Nagasaki bombing — Radiadio Tokyo announced that the Japanese
Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima
If its one of those old brass hand-held blow torches it uses kerosene. - Original Message - From: clark creamer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question was The myths of Hiroshima First post If you're talking WWII style or Vietnam style flamethrower then you're talking Napalm...heh. ~Clark On 8/7/05, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I passed by the local used everything store and saw an old style blowtorch. It looked like it was in working order and cost next to nothing. I immediately though now that would make a nice preheater to boil off any excess water in my waste vegetable oil. If this is in the archives I´m sorry but it´s early and I haven´t had my morning cup yet. What the heck did they use to fuel these suckers? Do you think it can run on BioD or glycerine byproduct? Thanks, Tom From: Garth Kim Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:40:16 -0300 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima Greetings Tom, Yes, many of us would not be here. Canadian forces were also training for that invasion. I was always taught that it was the code of death before dishonor that made the bombing necessary. I am not saying that is correct, but I wonder how scared of Russia anyone would have been by that time in the war. As I understand it, one of the things the Russian people hated America for was the long wait before they joined, which allowed Russia to be seriously depleted. I do understand that the Japanese were already commandeering cooking pots etc. for metal to make weapons, so they must have known the end was in sight, but that had been going on for long enough to scare many people into believing they would not surrender, period. It is easy to start myths during war time, people are so scared and the average person is not told much of the truth for good reasons, many times. I see it today, so many people are so scared of terrorism and have no idea of how it started. How does one educate a population that is now in it's second or third generation of ignorance of history, science, math, philosophy and common sense? Bright Blessings, Kim At 01:23 PM 8/5/2005, you wrote: Hi All, Although I'm in agreement about the Enola Gay exhibit, I will have to disagree about the use of the bombs. As slightly more modern barbarians we really have no idea of the mindset of Japan's WWII government. Perhaps Keith can give his insights since he lives close by. My reading of that history is that Japan's military had a stranglehold on the government. That their way was the Bushido way. There's a lot of death before dishonor in that line of thinking. My father related many stories to me of the kamakazi attacks during the invasion of Okinawa. That they were ineffective does not discount their willingness to die. There were a lot fewer prisoners taken in the Pacific war. Some of that was certainly racism on our side but a fairly good piece of it wasn't. I've spoken with many veterans from that campaign. Many reasonable men told me quite frankly that the Japanese would rather die than surrender. If they could die taking a few of their enemy with them all the better. If this willingness to die was prevelent in their armed forces I think one can make the jump that if the home islands were attacked that our casualties would be very high. Perhaps not the million so often quoted but if it was only a quarter of that, many of us who are currently alive would never have been born. My father was in training for the invasion when the bombs were dropped. He told me everyone on board his troop transport breathed a sigh of relief when they realized they would not have to invade. I personally have no use for nuclear technology or nuclear weapons and am fully against them. But the truth be told, I'm here today because they were used and we haven't had a world war since thier invention. my two cents for the day, Tom Irwin From: Appal Energy [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0300 Subject: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bird5aug05,0,760322.story The myths of Hiroshima By Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin, KAI BIRD and MARTIN J. SHERWIN are coauthors of American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer, published earlier this year by Knopf. SIXTY YEARS ago tomorrow, an atomic bomb was dropped without warning on the center of the Japanese city of Hiroshima. One hundred and forty thousand people were killed, more than 95% of them women and children and other noncombatants. At least
