Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels may cost all households
Yikes! There have also been rumours in Australia that households could be charged for ´service availability´, where you would be charged even if you go off grid. Hopefully it will remain a rumour There is a Solar Company here in Lismore that is using LiPo cells to cut the draw at peak charge times too. Apparently it is very close to cost effective now (with power prices still rising in Australia) regards Doug On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:16:02 +0800 Tony cr...@vianet.net.au wrote: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/16410796/solar-panels-may-cost-all-households/ Solar panels may cost all households Daniel Mercer, The West Australian Updated March 21, 2013, 2:10 am http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/130321/a_230209habecoideas1_18kjmp7-18kjmpb.jpg Solar panels may cost all households Solar panels WA households could have to pay a higher fixed charge for their electricity bills under a shake-up that would be aimed at recouping the spiralling cost of solar panels to the network. Amid concern from Western Power that households with solar panels are not paying their share of the grid's upkeep costs, it is understood the State Government may look at reforming the structure of bills. One option likely to be considered is charging a higher service fee, which currently amounts to 41.5 a day, or about $150 a year, for household customers of Synergy and Horizon. To offset the increase, the Government would lower variable charges, which according to last year's State Budget account for $1443 of the typical household electricity bill a year. However, though households which cut their electricity use would not necessarily be worse off under such a change - and might be better off - those unable to cut their use could be slugged even more. The possible reform is expected to be discussed as part of the energy roundtable convened by former energy minister Peter Collier to consider ways of reforming the State's electricity sector. Although the forum has met only once since it was established in October, there were predictions it would be maintained under Mike Nahan as Energy Minister. The boss of Western Power, Paul Italiano, warned in October that households with solar panels were able to shirk paying their fair share for the upkeep of WA's network of poles and wires. Mr Italiano said households with photovoltaic cells drew less energy from the grid and so had lower electricity bills, despite needing the same level of service as people without the systems. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel -- Doug lema...@internode.on.net ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels may cost all households
Hi Doug Some 10 years ago here in the West ( 100km N/E of Perth) when the Shire was Putting in Deep sewage down my street I said I didnt want it I would rather have a Clivus Multrim Composting Toilet and Grey water system the Response was it is GOING PAST YOUR PLACE so you pay for it ! wether you hook into it or not The same Feed back was for the Rubbish removal as well I would have rather paid a nominal fee and take i to the Tip my self when needed In our society you get fined if you DO OR DON'T look after the environment either way they win ! Tony At 10:16 PM 2/04/2013 +1100, you wrote: Yikes! There have also been rumours in Australia that households could be charged for ´service availability´, where you would be charged even if you go off grid. Hopefully it will remain a rumour There is a Solar Company here in Lismore that is using LiPo cells to cut the draw at peak charge times too. Apparently it is very close to cost effective now (with power prices still rising in Australia) regards Doug On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 08:16:02 +0800 Tony cr...@vianet.net.au wrote: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/16410796/solar-panels-may-cost-all-households/ Solar panels may cost all households ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels may cost all households
Lots of talk of the costs imposed on other people by people who install solar panels, but no mention of the benefit that people who install solar panels are giving to all of society by reducing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tony cr...@vianet.net.au wrote: http://au.news.yahoo.com/**thewest/a/-/newshome/16410796/** solar-panels-may-cost-all-**households/http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/16410796/solar-panels-may-cost-all-households/ Solar panels may cost all households Daniel Mercer, The West Australian Updated March 21, 2013, 2:10 am http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/**130321/a_230209habecoideas1_** 18kjmp7-18kjmpb.jpghttp://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/130321/a_230209habecoideas1_18kjmp7-18kjmpb.jpg Solar panels may cost all households Solar panels WA households could have to pay a higher fixed charge for their electricity bills under a shake-up that would be aimed at recouping the spiralling cost of solar panels to the network. Amid concern from Western Power that households with solar panels are not paying their share of the grid's upkeep costs, it is understood the State Government may look at reforming the structure of bills. One option likely to be considered is charging a higher service fee, which currently amounts to 41.5 a day, or about $150 a year, for household customers of Synergy and Horizon. To offset the increase, the Government would lower variable charges, which according to last year's State Budget account for $1443 of the typical household electricity bill a year. However, though households which cut their electricity use would not necessarily be worse off under such a change - and might be better off - those unable to cut their use could be slugged even more. The possible reform is expected to be discussed as part of the energy roundtable convened by former energy minister Peter Collier to consider ways of reforming the State's electricity sector. Although the forum has met only once since it was established in October, there were predictions it would be maintained under Mike Nahan as Energy Minister. The boss of Western Power, Paul Italiano, warned in October that households with solar panels were able to shirk paying their fair share for the upkeep of WA's network of poles and wires. Mr Italiano said households with photovoltaic cells drew less energy from the grid and so had lower electricity bills, despite needing the same level of service as people without the systems. __**_ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.**sustainablelists.orgSustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/** sustainablelorgbiofuelhttp://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Solar panels may cost all households
Hi Zeke, for most for-profit power generators, their emissions (heat, CO2, conventional pollutants, noise, toxins, carcinogens, etc.) are just 'externalities' they impose on society. Thus, the lack of these things are also an externality. Unless they can find a way to generate revenue from the damage not being done, these benefits are by definition of no value (cannot be 'internalized' for profit). The concept of the 'triple-bottom-line' is a nice construct for trying to score something for reduction of environmental costs. However, in my experience, the only thing that really matters to a corporation is money. So, if you want to encourage a particular direction or action, the incentive needs to be financial. That's what governments and mass action by consumers is supposed to do. (Government interventions, tax structures and effective consumer boycotts are amazingly effective, sometimes amazingly so. Our federal government seriously damaged the residential real estate market recently with a couple of measures, one of which should have resulted in the resignation of the Finance Minister). That's why I favour things like a carbon tax, environmental surety performance bonds and serious fines for violations (that get enforced). Once the owners of those solar panels that are grid connected get to the point they are producing a substantial amount of power, I wonder what impact they would have if they all elected to shut off their connection (supply to grid) on a hot summer weekday afternoon when demand is high? I wonder if a group action would get the utility's attention. Darryl On 02/04/2013 10:58 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote: Lots of talk of the costs imposed on other people by people who install solar panels, but no mention of the benefit that people who install solar panels are giving to all of society by reducing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Tony cr...@vianet.net.au wrote: snip -- Darryl McMahon Author, The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
