Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 app?

2016-06-27 Thread Jens Alfke via swift-users 

> On Jun 27, 2016, at 8:59 AM, zh ao  wrote:
> 
> Not with current Swift 3. Currently, the developing team make efforts on 
> releasing Swift 3 together with iOS 10 and macOS 10.12 in September.

I know it’s not with Swift 3. Hopefully people on the dev team are thinking 
farther ahead.

>> The primary goal of this release is to solidify and mature the Swift 
>> language and development experience. While source breaking changes to the 
>> language have been the norm for Swift 1 through 3, we would like the Swift 
>> 3.x (and Swift 4+) languages to be as source compatible with Swift 3.0 as 
>> reasonably possible.

I’m asking about binary compatibility, not source compatibility; they’re not 
the same. For example, the Objective-C language has gone through many major 
changes since 2001, but the runtime has only broken binary compatibility once 
(and that was done in a way that didn’t affect any existing code, by putting it 
into the 64-bit transition on OS X and into the brand-new iOS.)

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Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 app?

2016-06-27 Thread Ted Bradley via swift-users 
Thanks – I really appreciate the definitive answer. 

I’m worried a lot of people don’t realise this when doing their planning for 
the next few months – the migration guide is a little bit ambiguous on this 
front:

“Wait until the upstream open-source project updates to Swift 2.3 or Swift 3”
- https://swift.org/migration-guide/#using-carthagecocoapods-projects

If read optimistically, one could easily think that the update of the upstream 
open-source project doesn’t have to be to the same Swift version as ones own 
project...

- Ted

From: <daniel_dun...@apple.com> on behalf of Daniel Dunbar 
<daniel_dun...@apple.com>
Date: Monday, 27 June 2016 at 16:30
To: Ted Bradley <ted.brad...@hudl.com>
Cc: "swift-users@swift.org" <swift-users@swift.org>
Subject: Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 
app?

No, this is not possible. All of the code in a single process needs to be 
compiled with the same version of Swift.

 - Daniel




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Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 app?

2016-06-27 Thread zh ao via swift-users 
Not with current Swift 3. Currently, the developing team make efforts on
releasing Swift 3 together with iOS 10 and macOS 10.12 in September.

The primary goal of this release is to solidify and mature the Swift
language and development experience. While source breaking changes to the
language have been the norm for Swift 1 through 3, we would like the Swift
3.x (and Swift 4+) languages to be as source compatible with Swift 3.0 as
reasonably possible. However, this will still be best-effort: if there is a
really good reason to make a breaking change beyond Swift 3, we will
consider it and find the least invasive way to roll out that change (e.g.
by having a long deprecation cycle).

https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution

Zhaoxin
​

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Jens Alfke via swift-users <
swift-users@swift.org> wrote:

>
> On Jun 27, 2016, at 8:30 AM, Daniel Dunbar via swift-users <
> swift-users@swift.org> wrote:
>
> No, this is not possible. All of the code in a single process needs to be
> compiled with the same version of Swift.
>
>
> How long will this be the case? The product I work on is distributed
> primarily as a compiled framework. If we port any of it to Swift we’d
>  first need some assurance of binary compatibility.
>
> (Also, if you really mean *all* of the code in a process, that implies
> that Apple can’t implement any system frameworks in Swift. So it seems that
> this question ties in with the earlier one of “how long do we have to copy
> multi-megabyte compatibility shim libraries into our apps that use Swift?”)
>
> ((At the risk of sounding flamey: this sort of confirms my rule of thumb
> that Swift version numbers have their decimal points misplaced. IMHO, ABI
> stability is a requirement for a true 1.0 release of a language that has
> dynamic loading.))
>
> —Jens
>
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Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 app?

2016-06-27 Thread Jens Alfke via swift-users 

> On Jun 27, 2016, at 8:30 AM, Daniel Dunbar via swift-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> No, this is not possible. All of the code in a single process needs to be 
> compiled with the same version of Swift.

How long will this be the case? The product I work on is distributed primarily 
as a compiled framework. If we port any of it to Swift we’d  first need some 
assurance of binary compatibility.

(Also, if you really mean all of the code in a process, that implies that Apple 
can’t implement any system frameworks in Swift. So it seems that this question 
ties in with the earlier one of “how long do we have to copy multi-megabyte 
compatibility shim libraries into our apps that use Swift?”)

((At the risk of sounding flamey: this sort of confirms my rule of thumb that 
Swift version numbers have their decimal points misplaced. IMHO, ABI stability 
is a requirement for a true 1.0 release of a language that has dynamic 
loading.))

—Jens___
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Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 app?

2016-06-27 Thread Ted Bradley via swift-users 
So does that mean then that Swift 2.3 and Swift 3.0 can interoperate?

E.g.

iOS Target ‘Foo’, imports a custom Framework ‘Bar’

Foo is Swift 3.0
Bar is Swift 2.3

From: zh ao <owe...@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, 27 June 2016 at 14:34
To: Ted Bradley <ted.brad...@hudl.com>
Cc: "swift-users@swift.org" <swift-users@swift.org>
Subject: Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 
app?

You need to wait until they are promised to work with 2.3 or 3.0. If you can 
get the source code, you can use migration tool and compile the framework 
yourself.

Zhaoxin

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Ted Bradley via swift-users 
<swift-users@swift.org<mailto:swift-users@swift.org>> wrote:
Ah, I wasn’t being clear :)

I meant user created frameworks. Such as you would get manually or via Carthage 
/ Cocoapods. Could those be migrated to Swift 2.3, whilst your main target is 
migrated to Swift 3.0?

As a temporary stop-gap of course.

From: zh ao <owe...@gmail.com<mailto:owe...@gmail.com>>
Date: Monday, 27 June 2016 at 11:27
To: Ted Bradley <ted.brad...@hudl.com<mailto:ted.brad...@hudl.com>>
Cc: "swift-users@swift.org<mailto:swift-users@swift.org>" 
<swift-users@swift.org<mailto:swift-users@swift.org>>
Subject: Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 
app?

I don't know which frameworks you talking about. The Foundation framework is 
definitely different. But Cocoa and Cocoa Touch should be the same.


Zhaoxin

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Ted Bradley via swift-users 
<swift-users@swift.org<mailto:swift-users@swift.org>> wrote:
Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 target app?

From what I’m reading in the documentation, it seems like everything needs to 
be either all Swift 2.3 or all Swift 3.0 – no mix and matching.

Unfortunately, the beta has been pretty unstable on my system so I’ve not 
managed to get enough time to test this out yet. Appreciate hearing from anyone 
who knows definitively or has tried this.


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Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 app?

2016-06-27 Thread zh ao via swift-users 
You need to wait until they are promised to work with 2.3 or 3.0. If you
can get the source code, you can use migration tool and compile the
framework yourself.

Zhaoxin

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 6:29 PM, Ted Bradley via swift-users <
swift-users@swift.org> wrote:

> Ah, I wasn’t being clear :)
>
>
>
> I meant user created frameworks. Such as you would get manually or via
> Carthage / Cocoapods. Could those be migrated to Swift 2.3, whilst your
> main target is migrated to Swift 3.0?
>
>
>
> As a temporary stop-gap of course.
>
>
>
> *From: *zh ao <owe...@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, 27 June 2016 at 11:27
> *To: *Ted Bradley <ted.brad...@hudl.com>
> *Cc: *"swift-users@swift.org" <swift-users@swift.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a
> Swift 3.0 app?
>
>
>
> I don't know which frameworks you talking about. The Foundation framework
> is definitely different. But Cocoa and Cocoa Touch should be the same.
>
>
>
>
>
> Zhaoxin
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Ted Bradley via swift-users <
> swift-users@swift.org> wrote:
>
> Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 target app?
>
>
>
> From what I’m reading in the documentation, it seems like everything needs
> to be either all Swift 2.3 or all Swift 3.0 – no mix and matching.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, the beta has been pretty unstable on my system so I’ve not
> managed to get enough time to test this out yet. Appreciate hearing from
> anyone who knows definitively or has tried this.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 app?

2016-06-27 Thread Ted Bradley via swift-users 
Ah, I wasn’t being clear :)

I meant user created frameworks. Such as you would get manually or via Carthage 
/ Cocoapods. Could those be migrated to Swift 2.3, whilst your main target is 
migrated to Swift 3.0?

As a temporary stop-gap of course.

From: zh ao <owe...@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, 27 June 2016 at 11:27
To: Ted Bradley <ted.brad...@hudl.com>
Cc: "swift-users@swift.org" <swift-users@swift.org>
Subject: Re: [swift-users] Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 
app?

I don't know which frameworks you talking about. The Foundation framework is 
definitely different. But Cocoa and Cocoa Touch should be the same.


Zhaoxin

On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Ted Bradley via swift-users 
<swift-users@swift.org<mailto:swift-users@swift.org>> wrote:
Can Swift 2.3 frameworks be used with a Swift 3.0 target app?

From what I’m reading in the documentation, it seems like everything needs to 
be either all Swift 2.3 or all Swift 3.0 – no mix and matching.

Unfortunately, the beta has been pretty unstable on my system so I’ve not 
managed to get enough time to test this out yet. Appreciate hearing from anyone 
who knows definitively or has tried this.


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